Interesting review , on the subject of bike values, trade ins etc , I like you own all my own bikes (no PCP or finance) and can honestly say I've never bought a bike with a view to making profit and have never worried or even cared if I lost money on one , I buy my motorcycles because I like them, they make me smile and I feel great when I ride them, my bike purchases are affairs of the heart and the money I pay , trade in values etc is never crosses my mind.
I think the motorcycle lifestyle has about 10 good years left. I used to have strong opinions about what car I should drive, but ever since the electric revolution took over, my passion for cars has faded-they’re just a way to get from A to B now. But bikes still have my heart.
i've been riding since 1962. l currently own a 2014 Triumph Street Triple 675R.....will probably be my last Motorcycle...l ride in Spain which is a far more motorcycle friendly country, weather is better as well allowing for year round riding..
Just sold my old faithful, a 20 year old Suzuki DL650 V-Strom. I bought it 6 years ago for £2,100 and I sold it for £2,800 with an extra 40k miles on it. Spent money on consumables over the years but for me, buying right can make biking cost effective. I replaced it with a 3 year old DL1050 V-Strom with only 3k on the clock. Paid £6k with all the bells and whistles, over half the cost of a new version today. I’m sure buying new bikes is enjoyable, but buy second hand and save yourself a fortune! I appreciate that’s not good for manufacturers or dealers, but they need to stop adding tech to bump up prices and make affordable bikes again.
I've bought 6 low mileage used bikes over the last 8 years at a cost of £30000. I reckon their worth is now £22000. They're all keepers so the loss is not problem, bikes are for enjoyment. As for the weather, I've been getting wet riding bikes for the last 50 years but the good days more than make up for it and the winters are much milder now than in the 70s/80s. Nice video and ride safe, cheers.😊
only losing 8k in 8 years across 6 bikes seems like you made pretty decent choices to me 😀. but even in our lifetime & without the nostalgia of many years condensed into a few remembered events, it's just a few years in comparison to global patterns. There was what they call the 'mini ice age' in the uk from roughly the 14th to 18th century, but now they try scare & convince you a few years is a doomsday scenario for political purposes. GL
Residual value only matters if you sell it. If you don't, it makes no difference. The longer you keep the bike, the more value you get from it. My FTR has dropped dramatically in residual value since I bought it three years ago. As I am still riding it and have no plans to sell it, do I care?
spot on & I'm the same m8. i took a while deciding on what i wanted, and then accessorised and customised my new bike to suit me perfectly. Every time i ride it i love it, & just can't imagine any bike improving on it, so hardly spend any time reading up on 'the latest' thing anymore, coz the only thing that matters is the ride. GL
Bikes are mental, and physical health therapy. Better spend your money on bikes, rather than pills, and doctors. Bikes are a liabilty, whether it be monetary depreciation, running costs, or putting you in a wheel chair, not to mention a wooden box. Just make sure you can afford your choices, sensible or not. Everyone to his own. Choose your weapon!
you know it fella !!, my view is that money comes and goes, and when it's spent it's forgotten soon after, but for example i'll remember my week long bike tour of scotland a few months ago pretty much forever, and we all have less time than we think anyway. GL
@@dreamcrusher112 Yes, hence the emphasis on what you can afford. Some people can buy a Ferrari, and still treat a grandchild to what it deserves. Others might manage one or two budget bikes. Always be responsible towards your loved ones, and towards those that you are responsible for
It’s always hard to look at the value of something you’ve bought dropping disproportionately but as, my old dad used to say, something is only worth what someone will pay you for it. I guess the pain is knowing that armed with £12k you could go out and buy your fleet now and save £12k. I bought an Africa Twin three years ago and whilst it was a lovely bike it just wasn’t right for me. A year later and 2,000 miles ridden I got my money back including the extended warranty. I was staggered. Less than staggering is the KTM 890 Adventure that replaced it at way less outlay. I’m selling it (or trying to) and will be lucky to get back half its initial cost. I’m left with the quandary: sell it and put a bit of money back or accept it on the basis that it’s taken the devaluation hit and keep it. Insurance, tax, servicing are, of course, the down sides. In many ways, the doom is fuelled (ha) by the ever present “net zero” lunacy being forced upon us and continued pressure to give up hydrocarbons. The environment benefits are negligible (and I’m happy to debate those) but the cost massive in every sense. At 65 and retired I have no intention of being told by zealots such as Ed Miliband what to do. We must all fight for common sense.
I was just putting away the patio furniture for winter with my wife and we realised we hadn't sat outside this whole year, we would usually be enjoying it in the summer and even in the evening. Now it feels like if I could buy a perspex dome for the whole house I would! No wonder bike sales are depressed
I buy motorcycles because I love bikes. I don't have a car and the bikes have to work for a living so I try to balance enjoyment and practicality. I think buying small, cheap bikes is the best way. Every one of your bikes cost the same as one, fully loaded BMW. You could cut back, sell half the bikes and still have 2! I've just bought an enfield 350 and if I lost every last penny on it it would still be better value then buying a small car which would probably loose £3500 just by putting your name on the V5! And think about the poor saps that bought new EVs! My overall theory is that if you buy cheap you can't possibly loose much and if you buy, look after, and plan on keeping very long term, then you REALLY shouldn't worry a jot about residuals.
Let's cheer folk up a bit. 1. It's a great time to buy a quality used bike at Dick Turpin prices. 2. You buy and sell in the same market so if your old and new bikes are down in value, your cost to upgrade will be less than in a buoyant market. 3. Don't flog it and take a big hit. Ride it and enjoy it for another year or two and you will probably not lose a huge amount more in residual value. 4. Take the following attitude if you are offered a crap price. "It's worth more than that to me!" I hope that put a little smile on a few of you. Rab
@@rogerelwynjones1366basically i agree, BUT, “upgrade” or even “downgrade” i, but i tend to think most of us, always need a make a bike to become MY bike…. That is a “needed” ritual for me at least… but it doesn’t need money involved though… (but it often does) i don’t worry, it is part of the fun for me..
The problem is that people aren’t buying new so dealers are disappearing and existing owners are holding on to their bikes due to low sale values unless they desperately need the money.
43+ years of enjoying and riding many motorcycles, i have enough bikes and a nice workshop to see me out, It is the young ones i feel sorry for. Ride for the experience and the memories,. The minute you draw your fist breath, it cost you money 😊. Keep enjoying it all. Happy riding, stay safe.
I didn't buy my bike to sell it. I don’t care if it's lost a tonne of money. In 18 months, I've done 11,000 miles. I absolutely love it! What am I riding? A Royal Enfield Classic 350 signals. Brilliant!
Thanks for posting, all very interesting stuff. I bought a 2023 Moto Guzzi V7 850 Special last year. It is my intention to keep it for the next forty years. It's "value" will be in the use I get out of it in that time. (Not in what someone will give me in a years time when I have got bored of it!) Britain is in the mess it is in now because of the financial model used by "Consumers" to purchase most items, including their transport. I paid cash for the Moto Guzzi, that I had saved up. The purchase price was £1200.00 off stock RRP because I was paying all of it up front and negotiated a good deal. I'll service it myself and the ongoing costs will be tyres, fuel, service items etc. About £500.00 P.A. It won't be the latest thing in five years time, but it will own me nothing.
Spot on about creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. We've seen this in the past with everything from toilet rolls to petrol shortages. My instinctive gut reaction tells me though that there has been a sea change in a lot of things since the heady cash-rich days of 2020-22. People are either affected now by the cost of living, or are fearful of commiting so much to what for most is a hobby. It's a multi factorial phenomena that applies to things like the cycle industry and even golf. I've always been philosophical about losing money on selling bikes though. It's more painful if you sell within say 3 to 6 months but if you keep the bike for years then the loss spread across years I view as simply the price of the pleasure It's given me per year. I see it the same as spending money on a foreign holiday. You wouldn't expect to get those for free. One thing I HAVE learned is that I've always had the habit of spending a fortune on accessories as soon as I get a new bike. Then I find after 6 months I don't gel with the bike and sell it at an even bigger loss. Recently I've forced myself not to spend a penny on dedicated accessories until I've had it for at least 3 months. Great interesting video 👍 .
Without wishing to sound sanctimonious, anyone who sells a bike in 3 to 6 months hasn't done their homework, and has made an impulse buy. Everyone's budget is different and for a few, 5 - 10 grand loss here or there is considered a hire charge for riding something different. Entertainment value if you will. For the majority, flipping bikes is a costly experiment which requires a very indulgent dealer, or a hedonistic view of cost-per-mile motorcycling.
@borderlands6606 Sometimes you can research till the cows come home and get thousands of opinions but sometimes one just doesn't gel with the bike. It's like getting married...until you live with the bugger you really can't tell.
Hi all so Depreciation; what's it all about ? Buying ANY new vehicle, It's the fastest way of getting rid of unwanted cash known to man. The day you take your 'brand new' vehicle out of the showroom for the first time, you have and always have done, lost between 25 and 30% of it's purchase price. Fact ! Add to that the fact that we are entering the season - for motorbikes at least - significantly slower sales. Good for buying, not so good for selling. Add to that big changes in the new bike market such as significantly increased prices for the 'old school' bike mfrs, new entrants such as the Chinese factories with vfm offerings but little long-term history and a UK economy looking rather shaky. As a consequence we see bike retailers going 'tits up' and all adding to a bike market which lacks confidence.
100% RIGHT. I buy what I want, if it turns out to work pretty much how I want I hold onto it. You can only loose money but only if you sell it ! I want a desirable ADV to travel the world. as I only ride a few hours a week round the local lanes and a spot of shopping I had to forgo those dreams an settle for a brand new RE Scram (4k OTR) s it is all I need (Diffrent to all I want ;-)). I dont plan on loosing many thousnds of pounds on it either. Peeps need to honest with themselves and look at their user profile.
Those BSA red stickers really look good. Can you just imagine that 1 Harley-Davidson canbe more than your 4 bikes total? That's just insane. They ought to be ashamed of themselves & fire that CEO. Our market over here has not been affected to my knowledge. Have a beautiful day & thank's for your time. Cheers!! Illinois, USA
Morning Dave, I once counted all the depreciation I had lost on all my bikes and cars since I started in 1976. I can’t recall exactly how much anymore but a few years back I could have bought a small house at the time. Yes I can’t argue that I have wasted an awful lot of money over the years but probably not as much as if I had smoked or drunk large amounts over that same period. So in conclusion other than wasting a lot of money I’ve really enjoyed owning what I have owned so that’s life isn’t it. I would far rather regret what I have done than what I haven’t done. I’ll still continue riding / driving and wasting my money , but enjoying doing so. I think some vloggers etc can do more harm than good when they expose perceived problems that may or may not exist. It’s similar to reviewers on any medium. Many are very quick to criticise but not praise when deserved.
when money becomes tight, the toys always goes first, bikes boats campervans classic cars ect. on the upside my son-in-law works at a dealership he said sports bikes are dead in the water but the royal Enfield are selling well and also anything up to 650cc. the large capacity bikes are just not moving.
Good video Dave. I have been a motorcyclist since the mid 70s and have seen the changes along the way. Big dealerships were absorbing small family run businesses, and we had giants like Motorcycle City, Carnell, and Cusworths, just to name a few, all gone now. So dealerships going under is not new. I'm guessing that the business model of the failed dealers cannot absorb the almost perfect storm of cost of living crisis, fewer people taking up motorcycling, lousy weather, high price of new bikes plus there seems to be that motor finance lenders are now reluctant or pulling away from the motor sector. There has been some TH-cam content from car channels indicating this, I can't verify this as I'm not in the process of buying a bike or car on finance. I doubt very much that I will change my motorcycles at all over the coming 12 months or so. I have the bikes I want all fitted with the accessories I need, so I'm just going to ride them and enjoy them and not worry about depreciation. I do tend not to buy new and look for the cleanest low mileage example usually from a dealer with a warranty.BSA do seem to be trying to get on top of the issues reported at last, Richard from Bankrupt Pensioner did a good video on his take regarding BSA. The Goldstar is a great bike, and I really enjoyed my ride on it, and at today's pricing, it is a bit of a bargain.
And don't forget the big car groups like Pendragon that bought bike dealerships to try to cash in on the popularity of bikes at the time - then sold on or closed those dealerships when they found it harder than car sales. They didn't help themselves by getting rid of experienced bike dealer managers and replacing them with car orientated bean counters with no bike experience.
Problem with BSA is they’ve now pulled the rug from under their customers by so heavily discounting new bikes. New Gold Stars can be had for under £5k which is over £1,500 less than they were at the start of the summer. At that price new who’s going to buy a second hand one? - dealers are left with no margin to work with so they don’t want them. BSA have destroyed the value of their own brand and sold their customers down the river.
RE has done the same and you can now buy a new Interceptor for £5000. Back in 1980 I bought a new Suzuki GSX750 for £1699 and then they reduced the price to £1399! I've never forgiven them.😂😅😊
That needs correcting ... Mahindra have destroyed the BSA brand that they paid so much money on and passed it onto mugs who think that branding was worth anything. It takes more than a plastic badge on the tank to make a bike a Gold Star.
I think people are over thinking this. If you look at the car market, dealers are closing, second hand prices are falling, same in Campervans, motorhomes and caravans. It’s the results of the global cost of living crisis and high interest rates. People don’t buy when interest rates are high …. On the bright side I’m a similar age to you and I’ve seen this before and the market bounced back. The really worrying trend is that kids can’t get into bikes as a cheap fun travel alternative. Just my thoughts.
How much money do you think a dealer should make on a used bike? Have in mind that, at the least, the dealer must stake his or her reputation on the bike and give it space in the showroom for an unknown period of time. If it is autumn the bike may take up that space for months. The dealer does not know, with certainty, that the bike is fault free when it is traded in, so there is an always element of risk. In most cases the dealer will have to do some pre-sale preparation and some paperwork and provide a guarantee. When the dealer eventually sells the bike, even if it is one year old, low mileage and immaculate, top money will be no more than 80% of the current new price. I suggest a trade-in offer of 60% is about as much as anyone can reasonable expect.
WOW! You have lost a fortune on those bikes. Thing is, most of us like me, have a one bike collection. We can't afford a bike or bikes costing 25,000GBP. I had to make my purchase count, and that one bike had to cover all what your 4 bikes do. I still tour, camp, attend rallys, scratch through twisties on a Sunday morning, commute into the city when I need to and just potter around and catch up with my mates. And it is the same with my 10-11 riding buddies. All with one bike garages as well. That's the reality. Interesting and great content mate. Keep up the good work Cheers all from NZ
NC750X In the group we have various bikes. 1200gs hexhead 3 Vstrom 1000s Vstrom 650 KTM 990 CB500X You get the picture. 10 years ago it was Hyabusas Blackbirds Z1000S etc. Older and wiser!😂
You're right mate, I crave my old bikes I've sold, and I never even took a photo of my A10 combination I had in 1971 when I was 16. My current 8 aren't going anywhere, and one is a new BSA it's faaaantastic ❤😅
That’s a refreshing change a bike channel that sticks to talking about bikes instead of how they can’t make a video because the wind blew in the wrong direction last week and there’s no money in TH-cam and it takes 60 hours work to make another voice over video on less than minimum wage on a second note my local bike shop selling BSA and royal Enfield among others in Essex is up for sale for 2 and a half million quid if anyone is feeling flush this Christmas 😐👍
Trouble is running four bikes means four times the expense, insurance, tax, running costs. You can only ride one at a time. Saying that I have two myself but I do often consider dropping to just the one.
Get 4 bikes that look similar, take all badges off and swap the plates around 😂 Ok no, don't do this....but it would work. Until a motorcycle cop pulls you over, maybe...
I have a 2003 Transalp 650 brought in 2021 for £1300 with 35k miles on the clock now valued at £1800 to £2k private. I also brought a GSX600f this year 2003 18k miles paid £1600 and it's mint. Valued private £1600 to £1800. So in theory I am up £800 total on bikes 🤑 👌. Both bikes were slagged off in the motorcycling press on release in the UK but people love them and a strong following for both is out there. Buy 2nd hand and make money 😲. Try it, you might like it 😂
G'day Dave. I bought a top of the line Victory touring bike new in 2015 for AUD $26600. It was and still is, the most expensive motorcycle I've ever bought. It's taken me all over the country since then and has brought me immeasurable enjoyment in that time. I'm fortunate to own quite a few bikes, so the Victory has only covered about 85000 kms at this point. I look after it, and figure it should give me good service for at least another 10 or so years. So if that comes to pass and it then becomes completely worthless, it's cost me $1330 per year. My neighbour and his wife just did a five week trip to Africa and it cost him 40 grand. I reckon my Victory was a bargain!
I have four motorcycles and none were bought as a hedge against inflation. I bought them to use and to ride. For those who bought a bike with an eye on the resale / trade in value maybe should have thought a bit more before they bought the bike in the first place. Far too many people express an opionion on a particular bike they have never owned or even ridden. For the record I have two 2022 Moto Guzzis: an 850 Special and an 850 Stone, A 1998 Yamaha XJ600n and a 2021 Classic 500 Royal Enfield. A four, two twins and a single. All are air cooled, with two valve heads.
Eh up Dave, good morning to you. Your garage reminds me of my loft (less the bikes), but they do say that a genius is rarely tidy 😊. I've lost a small fortune on bikes too, over the years. But I don't think you can put a price on the wonderful life experiences and sheer joy they've provided. Unfortunately, for far too long, motorcycles have been allowed to attain a very negative perception in the public eye. Often considered dangerous, anti-social vehicles without any attempt to present the balanced perspective which motorcycling - as a whole, deserves. It's not even on the radar of think tanks and politicians when considering the environmental benefits and it's place in securing true sustainable transport, which is a massive oversight in my opinion. The positive mental health benefits they provide to many people are seemingly never considered either. Add in, the cost of insurance, increasing thefts and the expensive and convoluted path to gaining a motorcycle licence, and it's obvious why motorcycling isn't taken up by youngsters like it was for previous generations. As a result, the average age of motorcyclists has been pushed further and further along. I'm afraid to say, motorcycling as a whole might be entering it's twilight years. It's really sad that the joy and sheer fun of the experience might be denied entirely to future generations.
Regarding bikes and car depreciation before my company nearly went bankrupt during COVID, I would say my current position is solely down to my craze for vehicles. Sadly, I bought badly, Jags and Rover and even all the Triumphs I bought lost a lot. The only car that didnt lose much was a VW Golf. And the Harley I had for 6 months also kept its value. Certain brands and models hold their value, e.g a Toyota Land Cruiser and others dont, just about any Land Rover except the classic Defender. When you buy, take it into account and hope the one you like is one that holds its value, if not accept the consequences. Dont cry about it or be surprised . Also, NEVER BUY NEW, That's a very bad business decision. 👎💰 Buy a well kept 2nd hand bike from a desperate seller a save a lot. It just neans delaying gratificación a bit. 😉😇
Honest information, same could be said for cars in relation to devalues. I'd love a BSA goldstar, what a beauty. 🎉 We don't have bikes to save money, we have them to enjoy ❤❤ keep enjoying.. love your videos in whatever format you choose 😊 and poetry ❤️ thank you x
Thank you Martine I really appreciate those kind words and your continued support. Yes bikes are not a financial investment but they’re surely an emotional one and in that way keep paying dividends ❤️ xx
Wow I initially struggled to see the wood for the trees in your Garage perhaps some housekeeping would not go amiss however don’t listen to me as I’ve OCD 😊. Thanks for this interesting chat, motorcycling in general is shrinking due to an aging customer base and shrinking economy for luxury goods. Looking on the brighter side it’s Sunday morning in Northumberland and the roads are dry so I’m off out around the borders for some much needed therapy 👍
Well said. I much prefer these videos to the ones you do while your riding, much clearer audio. 👍 certainly here in AuS the trade in/ second hand market is woeful for Royal Enfield . It turns out there an investment in a hobby and fun, not a financial one. My 2 y/o 350 classic with only 1000Ks on it and in mint condition would only be worth half of what I paid for it now.
Morning David. We buy a motorcycle for the pleasure we gain, along with the benefits they bring health wise for some of us. We all know that if looked after, your purchase will last for many years. And, if you buy the bike with a view to keep it for many years, your investment is safe . Manufacturers take advantage of people by making minor improvements to their products to get you to buy new, or in some cases another. Treat your purchase of a motorcycle as you would with your washer, fridge freezer etc, replace it when it's worn out. Keep the videos coming, cheers.
The weather is of no concern to me as an all year rider. My 2024 Transalp is for the next 3 years. Based on the 2000+ miles I have enjoyed on it since buying it end of August, she has shown me there is no reason yet to move the her on, so the resale or trade in value is of no concern. I think it boils down to what rider you are. Is your bike your daily rider come rain or shine or is it a hobby for Sundays and sunny Saturdays ? Both riders will have different objectives and views on the value and what "value" really is. The market is behaving normally, winter is a kipper season for out door pursuits and come spring, will change upwards again. As for this years Summer. Down here in the South it felt very nice indeed, still does in November (few extra layers on) so that issue might be based on your personal location. Would be interesting to see what sales of motorcycles have been like in the year round warmer parts of Europe (Spain, Portugal, Greece) and so on to see how they compare with South and North England. How that info is gleaned is beyond me but I am sure someone knows. Wish you well and happy safe journeys on which ever bike you cock a leg over.
I think the main problem is that we've had a decade 2010-2020, of extremely low interest rates on bikes. Meaning finance was always dirt cheap, many people could afford to finance a new bike every year or two. So dealers were selling loads of new bikes. A problem of way too many used bikes available now and not enough buyers. I wanted to trade in a 2006 Honda Pan European. Only has 11k miles on it, FSH. Total original, excellent condition. Dealer said they didn't want it. And the few that did offered me about half their showroom price. Decided to keep it, and just get another bike.
As many others have said, we love our bikes for many strange and curious reasons. My 2020 T120 and recent late 2023 V7 Special Edition are, today, my keepers. Sure, I reminisce about my older, past bikes, but this is where I am today. Cost vs. future value is not anything that I've considered. Because I USE my bikes, I ride them as much as possible! I do all the maintenance to the best of my ability ... If I were to sell them, I don't expect any inflated selling price vs. original cost.... I'd love to sell them to a young guy/gal that wants to love them equally. Many folks over here (canada) will even "train" new owners in basic maintenance 😊 of the bike.... whether it's a Harley, Triumph or Honda! PS... PLEASE rotate your V7 mirrors 180 degrees so you're not looking at your elbows ❤❤❤❤
Good Morning Dave , I think you have hit the nail on the head with this video today mate , we can only hope we have a turnaround with the on going concerns at the minute , as always take care & ride safe
Having just ridden 500 miles in two days to attend a ride to remember a dear friend who died last week ( far too early he never retired) I reflected on the way back how precious memories are and if my spend on motorcycles gives me those memories it massively inflates the value and is my return on investment. Unrelated I do think the TH-cam fraternity is doing harm to dealers and bike manufacturers with sensationalism around values and reliability. It’s seems to me it’s become a winter hobby horse to fill content as tours and bike reviews are thin on the ground. I feel for the dealers who have to try and make sales and build confidence in marquees that are getting unfair focus for the sake of ‘ views’. I respect how you ( and Ian) have approached the subject as I read balance in the videos made. Finally values, I’ve only ever brought 2 brand new bikes in 46 years of biking and if I brought another id expect to loose more than buying a one year old bike as the new bike gives the first owner a special feeling in purchase and ownership, some are happy to pay for that and I respect that. Thank you for the content you produce, it’s entertaining and very watchable. Ride safe.
Look at the big posh showroom,all the staff,..none producers!...I'm a rich man,for I have no greed,...people brag,about how much they spend,the more they spend,the more it inflates their ego,..they are the suckers!..motorcycles are now,in most cases,toys...hard times ahead!
The worst thing that happened was a big car dealership buying up multiple motorcycle dealers then realising that they don’t get the same kind of margins as they did with cars and it’s a very different situation when selling motorcycles.
I usually buy motorbikes with the idea of keeping them for a while - at least 5 years. Therefore, I usually buy new knowing that, buy the time I come to sell them I will have had my money's worth.
I was at my RE dealer's for servicing of my Scram last Friday. They had a small selection of used bikes, including a very tidy Interceptor, with extras, for £3999. A bloke came in looking to part ex a BMW GS. They advised that they weren't taking any high-end bikes at the moment. There was another dealer close by, but they told the customer that he should expect a good £1000 less than he was hoping for. I have no plans to sell my Scram, which at 2 years old is probably worth about £5 now that the 450 engines are about?! Although I am planning a second bike (not a car owner), the Scram will remain as my daily transport.
Thanks for the incites, thought provoking as always, I must admit that the thought of a new bike does appeal but I am constantly put off by the horrendous initial depreciation, sounds like now is a good time to buy nearly new second hand bikes.
MY BNSA 650 GOLD STAR IS A KEEPER, SO THE DEPRECIATION DOES NOT BOTHER ME AS I LOVE IT. HOWEVER THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A BETTER TIME TO BUY A SECOND HAND BIKE WITH VERY LITTLE MILEAGE ON THJE CLOCK AS PRICES ARE AT ROCK BOTTOM.
Don't shed a tear for the owners of the dealerships that close. The owners will no doubt be fine. I've worked for two big companies where the owners walked away with literally £mllions after milking all the money out of the company before bankruptcy. One owner actually took himself off the list of directors to avoid liability, after syphoning the cash into another business. Sympathise with the employees who are always the last to know and benefit the least from the closure, if at all. Most employees only find that they are unemployed after turning up on a Monday morning to locked premises.
Spotted a May 2024 Enfield Classic 350 Halcyon Grey with 600miles going for £2995 the other day, which sold btw. £1500 off the new price! Great if you’re a buyer. Things will change though.
Supply and demand will always be the determining factor for any asset value. A depressed average household income, plus the awful weather, plus a declining population of motorcycle riders have driven prices down. Dealers are stuck with stock they bought a higher valuers that they now can't sell without taking a loss. I would assume all the stock from the shut down dealers will also appear on the market at lower prices which will further depress values. Things will bounce back I think but perhaps with people buying bikes that are a better value proposition. If you only do a few thousand miles a year then tieing up large sums of money on a rapidly depreciating assett makes little sense when you can have just as much fun on something cheaper. The Indian and Chinese manufacturers seem to be doing ok, but others less so. It always seems gloomy as we head into winter, let's hope the new year brings something better.
Another very interesting and informative VLOG. Does this mean you may now consider keeping hold of your bike fleet for more than 12 months😄😁🤩. Just a little consideration, that garage wants some serious TLC and organisation, you may find something you have had for years.
Only weather I avoid is the hard water stuff, i.e. ice and snow. currently managing 12 months of riding thanks to its demise on a regular basis. 7k on my RE350, only original battery replaced. By the looks of them original tyres will be replaced soon.
Just so you understand. We learn gifting. Buying your bike something nice for Christmas doesn't help it to bond with you. The feelings are never going to be reciprocated. Embellishments work the same with everything, don't overdo it from the parts catalogue. The cap badge has no function until it goes on the floor at the pump and even then doesn't protect the edges. Learn to take those extra moments at the pump or add the cost of a fuel cap. £63 for an OEM locking HD but you'll need to look up what your own cap costs. Leave your best shades on the seat at your own peril, just a matter of time.
I think it’s great to have a nice selection of different bikes all with their different characteristics giving a lot of enjoyment yes higher running costs but the feeling they give is worth every penny well done enjoyed the video
It's not just motorcycle dealers having difficult trading times. I work from nationwide Builders merchant and our turn over has halfed from 28 million pounds a year to 12 million pounds a year just at our branch.
Interesting, thanks for your video. The opening financial part, confuses me, no one would expect a youtube channel with this few Subscriptions to make any money, and your purchase of four new machines in one year and the reported depreciation is not really newsworthy, what did you expect the situation to be, of course you are going to lose huge amounts of cash, particularly with your choice of models. You are an enthusiast, not a business, so just ignore the drop of asset value ands enjoy your bikes. It is worth avoiding the attempt to make a logical answer ‘I have four bikes, rather than a Bonneville for the same value, because this equates to spending £25000 on a bonneville, haha. Just admit that you, like most of us, like buying bikes, and you can’t take the dosh with you !! I spent a long time in Mortorcycle Sales, which means i simply never buy anything which is not tried, tested, and proven to be a good machine, with great backup, and this has always worked for me, jeez the thought of celebrating successfully completing a few thousand miles without amy major issues is an astonishingly low expectation, and no reason to celebrate. I want 50,000 miles without issues ! Thanks for your time taken to create the video ( s ) enjoy your biking !
Hi Dave I am a biker of fifty years I have two bikes. But what I would like to say is I think the same is happening in the car market. I bought a new Mercedes last June and just found out that I have lost over £11000 in the car value since then I am not amused by that.
Each to their own, but Im happy with two bikes , so hopefully less depreciation . One of the bikes is 40 years old and thankfully only needs normal servicing stuff plus a bit of oil in the frame tank now and again , a straight 40 grade which was the same oil that the Detroit 2 stroke diesl engine used, fitted in an Aveling Barford motor grader I looked after !. So I have enough lubricant for 2 or 3 lifetimes 😊
Never bought a brand new motorbike & have been riding since 1979. I like old bikes and I do my engine rebuilds & all my own repairs where I can. Enjoy working on them as much as riding them. I’m up to 10 bikes now (if you include my 4 pedal and go mobylettes) as I’m not good at letting them go. Profit never comes into it. I dread about the money & time I’ve spent messing around with them but it beats watching TV 📺
What is happening isn't a crises; it's an opportunity. Buy used. Buy what you really want; change the oil twice as often and use OE air filters for the most effective air filtration. Any engineer worth his salt will tell you that a clean engine is a happy engine that will run nearly forever. Spend the depreciation you won't have to pay on riding. Result: Happiness!
Very good! Thank you for the video! These crazy times are scaring people to spend their money for "unnecessary things". Car market or guitars markets are depressed too (to speak of what I observe every day). BUT... we managed to survive untill now, and it was not so easy too, so let's be reasonable (not what EU is doing!!). You make a great job in tempting to make bikers mature in their mind... Like the Old School ADVrider which is a great channel too (💚411 Himalayan 💚)! Thanks again and NEVER try to sell your adorable blue Classic 350 I love so much 🥸😉
I enjoyed this video and thought it well balanced, thank you. I only have one issue and that is the headine on the page that admittedly drew me in (CF Moto and BSA Blues). I own a Goldstar and also think its a fantastic motorcycle for the money, much like yourself, I've had no issues so far during my 1200 miles over the summer. Unfortunately there are a lot of doom monger keyboard warriors out there who don't get past the headlines and seem intent on trashing the brand and I think maybe your headline won't help. Like I said apart from that I love the video and have now subscribed ! All the best, Brian.
Hi, nice If shocking video bud. k, I live the other end of the country, where Colchester KAWASAKI main dealers have announced a radical change of there futures. It features discontinuing dealing in KAWASAKI, also there PIAGGIO dealership has ceased. The dealership has stated there future heads to BSA and Royal Enfield.! - happy riding bud.
Of my 3 bikes, Rocket 3 TFC (held its value), Speedmaster (increased in value by 2k) and Tiger Explorer 1200 (lost 35% of its value). Had 10 Triumph’s and they have all been brilliant! Classics and cruiser hold their valve whilst the Tigers deprecate far more. I’ll stick with Triumph, best in every class they operate!
Good garage chat re the bikes, Dave. Am currently sitting with 3. Due to being offered half what I paid for My new Rebel 500, putting on many extras. Service package, Datatool too. In a quandary as, do I try sell now……or sit on fence till mid February and then put up for sale?? As you mentioned it’s not the purchase. It’s the up keep. Petrol, servicing, road tax, insurance. Times, as the amount of bikes a person owns. It is nice to have the choice of ride for the day. 😊 The weather this year, has been poor. This may, be a norm, from now on. Who knows?? Maybe the winter be a touch milder. Anyway, enough waffle……enjoy your nice array of bikes, a very enjoyable choice. I guess we gotta except the falling values of trade in. I just view as being medicine for my health conditions. 😊😊😊
If the value of our ridden assets are now significantly lower value, then replacing them should also cost less. Insurance industry still keeps hiking our premiums?
A motorcycle is a liability not an investment. The residual value is only part of the calculation of overall loss. Please learn the essential differences between investment and liability. My 26 year old Harley FXDL will already have cost £3k for the initial shake down 1500 mls. £2 per mile. A 100 mile round trip is therefore currently £200. As the time rolls by the cost per mile gets closer to mpg + parts. Buying new is everything you pay in divided by the miles travelled. Knock off the realistic residual value for cost per mile. Multiply that by a chosen trip out and buy yourself something nice to eat when you get there because it works out to be a drop in the ocean.
I think the number one reason for the downturn in the uk motorcycle industry is the recession. Value drops are dependent on model and manufacturer but if you’re happy with the bike you have and aren’t selling, what’s the problem ? Ride and enjoy. Thank you for this video and your honesty 🙏🏻
My local dealer, Colchester Kawasaki announced they were closing at the end of next month. Never saw that coming at all. Prices always rise in spring/ summer in the second hand market especially when the weather is good.
I saw in one of the groups a line drawing overlaying CF Motos head and KTMs head. The CF Moto is different. I believe though that the cams are the same which proves the issue is with the heads. I've looked a fair amount and cannot find any posts or vids or photos showing wear to CF Moto 800 cams. I'd be reasonably confident that they don't have a problem but if I were to buy one it would only be from an established dealer so if anything went wrong they would support you. A large multi franchise dealer near me closed recently, p&h in Crawley. They were a CF Moto dealer and I went over there to take a look and a sit. I was very impressed with the 800. It made me think though that should you make a purchase and your dealer goes to the wall then what support have you got?
I have had and rode motor cycles since I was 16 I am now 72 I have the biggest I have ever owned 1150 rt BMW only done 500 miles last year and loved ever mile of it
Dealerships not taking bikes isn't a new thing. Well over a decade ago they were actively declining taking px's of niche bikes or even servicing them despite having well established running gear from a main manufacturer. Being then obliged to do it myself I found that I needed them less and less. I sought out independent garages for the spannering I couldn't do and sold via internet. Our local main dealers don't seem to be doing well. One has dropped it's Honda franchise( hardly surprising, a most boring line up imho). One dealer is up for sale. The other has very large premises, is rammed with new bikes, multi franchise. Lots of Orange coloured bikes. One manufacturer with the oldest model line up and a manufacturer who uses green a lot with very little pillion accommodation. One thing in common, they're all blooming expensive. All of these outlets have become overly reliant on selling bikes using PCP finance. This has to some extent disguised the real cost to the gorra 'at the latest model MCN reader type. Uncertainties about cost of living, mortgage interest rates are keeping younger buyers away and pensioners willing to have more bikes than they can reasonably use getting rarer daily. Not looking good for the high overhead, expensive franchise model. Manufacturers are mostly to blame. Diva demands, such as, you can only sell our bikes! (Honda). You must buy huge numbers of our expensive models (Yamaha). Dealers don't make a large profit on a new bike sale, The commission on the finance, accessories and servicing is where the profit lies.
The relationship between motorcycle dealers and buyers has been sketchy for as long as I can remember. Bikes are seen as a volatile commodity of questionable reliability, as are their owners. Guilty until proven innocent, kind of affair. There is little sense that the punter has invested £x thousand in their product, and mutual good will is the order of the day. More like a ticking timebomb in a game of pass the parcel. Perhaps I've been unlucky, either way nowadays I buy bikes as infrequently as possible and acquaint myself with their foibles and appropriate spanners at the earliest opportunity.
Where there’s a will there’s a way. Buy cheap stack em high in containers then sell to the most profitable market abroad. And so lack of secondhand models will drive prices up here. Markets do what markets do and the brave make a killing. Maybe USA or am I just dreaming.
I own my bike till there is generally no value left so it doesn't ever really bother me. As for Tingle. He bought a used bike. It more likely had bad work done on it.
Hi Dave, of course most bikes did not bring realy much money, when you try to sell them. I agree with you, at the moment the gap got bigger. But...we never know. I like 3 of your 4 bikes very much, so keep on with the good work. Hopefully there are some dry and sunny days this year, temperature is often not the main problem. Motorbikes help against gremlins in the head.😊
So I wear two hats, bicycle and motorcycle, and there are parallels between the two. Businesswise, parts became sporadic, with bicycles you had to estimate 6 months stock (parts and bikes) or you would be unable to work and hence, unable to earn. Buy to let interest relief was ended, so these costs will be pasrt on in rent rises. Commercial electricity had no cap, so it essentialy quadrupled. Then the Trussanomics budget happened and put huge pressure on consumers with their elective purchases. Valuations will both reflect the finacially restrained customer and supplier as well as undersupply snapping to over supply.
If you buy bikes thinking of re-sale value you are in the wrong pastime ! I would still have the 1975 triumph T160 that I acquired in 1978 if it had not got stolen from my garage in 1993. The reason being the bike was fun to ride. On the same note to replace the T160 I got a 1994 Triumph 900 Daytona in 1996 and I still have it simply because it is fun to ride as is the 2010 street triple that I still have. For long distance touring I got a triumph 1050ST sprint, a brilliant bike that I intended to keep but when I got a Moto Guzzi V100S I found I was not using it and the Moto Guzzi was far more fun for the long distance role so the 1050st sprint got sold purely because the fun had gone out of it and the garage space can now be used for another bike to enjoy. The value in my motorcycles is not the cash they are worth but the fun and enjoyment they bring to me, the trick is to choose a bike carefully for the fun they will bring you and if you get it right you won’t want to sell them…….. but as an aside to this i see the value of the early Hinckley built triumphs creeping up so maybe my 900 Daytona will be an appreciating classic for those who acquire my estate when I kick the bucket……….but i have no intention of selling it !
Sobering video. Still it’s nice to hear the various issues relating to motorbikes and the industry being discussed in a balanced manner. Let’s hope for a brighter 2025 season.
Low residuals are a thing, for sure, but many people have been complaining that secondhand prices have been too high for quite some time and that the market has to readjust to the economic conditions. Now if you are in the secondhand market it is a bit irrelevant because you are selling at the lower price but you are buying your replacement at the lower price so overall you don't feel the pain but for new motorcycle buyers it is definitely more of an issue because new bikes are being discounted but not at the same level. I do agree that we could produce a self-full filing prophecy but I don't subscribe to the "let's all be positive" nonsense that some people want to see on TH-cam because we could equally be walking into big problems for our hobby. A declining market is good for no one and at what point do manufacturers start thinking of pulling out? We've seen the decline in manufacturers at Motorcycle Live over a few years which means that the UK market is less important. We have a problem with an ageing demographic with the average age now up to 54 so we and the industry have to find ways to make motorcycling appeal to youngsters.
I was reading a comment recently which suggested that buying new vehicles is a philanthropic gesture allowing people to subsequently buy vehicles second hand that they otherwise wouldn’t be able to buy new. My car is a Jaguar XJ which at 5 years old is worth less than 25% of its new value and was less than 33% when I bought it 2 years ago. Bikes generally are leisure vehicles and so suffer more than most from depreciation - it’s just a fact of life and proof if proof is needed that buying new is not cost effective. My bike is a 2019 Triumph T100 and I paid £3k less than list. I bought a fender extender and just used the double sided tape - stuck like s£&t to a blanket.
A great video TBW. The CFmoto 800MT is my favourite. That's all that matters! If I could afford 4 motorcycles, then I'd be spoilt for choice. Enjoy, keep riding in winter & ride them till they all rust away! Cheers
My next bike I’m getting is going to be a cheapy one, I won’t care about depreciation as long as I’m on 2 wheels for commuting. Insurance, running costs and depreciation is going against us now. The young ones won’t get into it unless they are hardcore..eg 125cc worth less than a grand, basic insurance is off the scale for them and three times the value of the bike. Let’s enjoy it while we can as it really is diminishing and I’m not going electric!
I recently sold my ex WD trail BSA B40 and instantly regretted it. I build it 30 years ago for £850 total and sold it for £2350, which is maybe close to the same value over time. Had many other bikes over the years but the BSA was the last one remaining. I got the urge again recently and bought a Harley Sportster, just because I never owned a Harley and like the look/sound/ethos of the bike. It's 20 years old and I took the time to find one I liked in the condition I wanted ie great original, clean, low mileage etc. It was about 1/4 the price of a new Harley, and I intend to keep it for fine weather runs out (all year round). I don't mind being chilly but I've no desire to get wet through on a bike ever again. I have spent more time sorting some irritating Harley related issues with the bike than riding it this year but I think it's almost there now. Looking forward to some pleasant rides in the future I have left - I'm 69 and making the most of it.
I have three bikes and the way I view depreciation is that I'll only lose if I sell them and I've got no plans for that. Two are late model bikes and one is 22 years old so has reached rock bottom in value, but is still enjoyable to ride so I will never sell any of my machines. They are with me until I die.
Buying a new vehicle is never an 'investment', you are always going to lose a chunk of money. The dealers even tell you this if you read between the lines... the MGFV on a PCP deal is what the dealers think the bike will be worth in 3 years, and on a PCP you pay for the depreciation, plus interest. You may have paid cash, so you've not paid interest, but the same applies with the future value. PCP is a dealers dream but a very poor deal for the buyer.
Well me owd dad used to say thee spends thee money nd takes the chances, very much so now, with this current climate that slowly consuming us is or could be depressing, not for me, I have a 12 month old hunter and a 20 yr old bullet, I approach the three score nd ten eara of my life shortly and thank God the life of two wheels I have had, and still have, the powers that be would certainly like to have control over what we spend our dosh on and are trying to make sure our age group are going to pay, it’s a sorry state, but life goes on, thanks Mr Wheeler for another thought provoking vid
I wonder if the rush during Covid to buy bikes had an impact. Dealerships not holding enough back and indeed folk keeping the bike. It's not like they wear out in two years or so.
Interesting review , on the subject of bike values, trade ins etc , I like you own all my own bikes (no PCP or finance) and can honestly say I've never bought a bike with a view to making profit and have never worried or even cared if I lost money on one , I buy my motorcycles because I like them, they make me smile and I feel great when I ride them, my bike purchases are affairs of the heart and the money I pay , trade in values etc is never crosses my mind.
Agree completely 🙂
Exactly, checkout Minis and Motorbikes TH-cam channel episode this week at the National Motorcycle Museum it’s brilliant and tell you friends.
I feel the same.
Everyone has their limit. Everyone.
I think the motorcycle lifestyle has about 10 good years left. I used to have strong opinions about what car I should drive, but ever since the electric revolution took over, my passion for cars has faded-they’re just a way to get from A to B now. But bikes still have my heart.
I gonna have my new bike for 20 years more :P i dont care of any electric shit!
@@chrispomphrett4283 They are collectively called ''White Goods'' that tell you something doesn't it!
I can concur. Used to be some exciting cars but now any ICE cars left are extremely expensive. Bikes haven’t been hit in the same way yet.
10 more years is enough for me ... enjoy it, we've never had it so good
i've been riding since 1962. l currently own a 2014 Triumph Street Triple 675R.....will probably be my last Motorcycle...l ride in Spain which is a far more motorcycle friendly country, weather is better as well allowing for year round riding..
Just sold my old faithful, a 20 year old Suzuki DL650 V-Strom. I bought it 6 years ago for £2,100 and I sold it for £2,800 with an extra 40k miles on it. Spent money on consumables over the years but for me, buying right can make biking cost effective.
I replaced it with a 3 year old DL1050 V-Strom with only 3k on the clock. Paid £6k with all the bells and whistles, over half the cost of a new version today.
I’m sure buying new bikes is enjoyable, but buy second hand and save yourself a fortune!
I appreciate that’s not good for manufacturers or dealers, but they need to stop adding tech to bump up prices and make affordable bikes again.
you got a good deal both ways there 🙂, well done
I’ve made a profit a few times selling bikes. Never on bikes I bought new. First year depreciation applies to nearly every bike.
I've bought 6 low mileage used bikes over the last 8 years at a cost of £30000. I reckon their worth is now £22000. They're all keepers so the loss is not problem, bikes are for enjoyment. As for the weather, I've been getting wet riding bikes for the last 50 years but the good days more than make up for it and the winters are much milder now than in the 70s/80s. Nice video and ride safe, cheers.😊
only losing 8k in 8 years across 6 bikes seems like you made pretty decent choices to me 😀. but even in our lifetime & without the nostalgia of many years condensed into a few remembered events, it's just a few years in comparison to global patterns. There was what they call the 'mini ice age' in the uk from roughly the 14th to 18th century, but now they try scare & convince you a few years is a doomsday scenario for political purposes. GL
Residual value only matters if you sell it. If you don't, it makes no difference. The longer you keep the bike, the more value you get from it. My FTR has dropped dramatically in residual value since I bought it three years ago. As I am still riding it and have no plans to sell it, do I care?
spot on & I'm the same m8. i took a while deciding on what i wanted, and then accessorised and customised my new bike to suit me perfectly. Every time i ride it i love it, & just can't imagine any bike improving on it, so hardly spend any time reading up on 'the latest' thing anymore, coz the only thing that matters is the ride. GL
Exactly
Bikes are mental, and physical health therapy. Better spend your money on bikes, rather than pills, and doctors. Bikes are a liabilty, whether it be monetary depreciation, running costs, or putting you in a wheel chair, not to mention a wooden box. Just make sure you can afford your choices, sensible or not. Everyone to his own. Choose your weapon!
Healthis priceless, you nailed it here.
you know it fella !!, my view is that money comes and goes, and when it's spent it's forgotten soon after, but for example i'll remember my week long bike tour of scotland a few months ago pretty much forever, and we all have less time than we think anyway. GL
@@davidmallia628 Bang on with that, if people are looking for a financial investment, don't ride it and keep it in your living room for 30 years.
that twelve grand wasted on depreciation would be a nice boost to a deposit for a grandchild.
@@dreamcrusher112 Yes, hence the emphasis on what you can afford. Some people can buy a Ferrari, and still treat a grandchild to what it deserves. Others might manage one or two budget bikes. Always be responsible towards your loved ones, and towards those that you are responsible for
It’s always hard to look at the value of something you’ve bought dropping disproportionately but as, my old dad used to say, something is only worth what someone will pay you for it. I guess the pain is knowing that armed with £12k you could go out and buy your fleet now and save £12k. I bought an Africa Twin three years ago and whilst it was a lovely bike it just wasn’t right for me. A year later and 2,000 miles ridden I got my money back including the extended warranty. I was staggered. Less than staggering is the KTM 890 Adventure that replaced it at way less outlay. I’m selling it (or trying to) and will be lucky to get back half its initial cost. I’m left with the quandary: sell it and put a bit of money back or accept it on the basis that it’s taken the devaluation hit and keep it. Insurance, tax, servicing are, of course, the down sides. In many ways, the doom is fuelled (ha) by the ever present “net zero” lunacy being forced upon us and continued pressure to give up hydrocarbons. The environment benefits are negligible (and I’m happy to debate those) but the cost massive in every sense. At 65 and retired I have no intention of being told by zealots such as Ed Miliband what to do. We must all fight for common sense.
I was just putting away the patio furniture for winter with my wife and we realised we hadn't sat outside this whole year, we would usually be enjoying it in the summer and even in the evening. Now it feels like if I could buy a perspex dome for the whole house I would! No wonder bike sales are depressed
You must live in Rossendale
I can count the amount of bbq's we had this year on 1 finger! 🤣🤣
I buy motorcycles because I love bikes. I don't have a car and the bikes have to work for a living so I try to balance enjoyment and practicality. I think buying small, cheap bikes is the best way. Every one of your bikes cost the same as one, fully loaded BMW. You could cut back, sell half the bikes and still have 2! I've just bought an enfield 350 and if I lost every last penny on it it would still be better value then buying a small car which would probably loose £3500 just by putting your name on the V5! And think about the poor saps that bought new EVs! My overall theory is that if you buy cheap you can't possibly loose much and if you buy, look after, and plan on keeping very long term, then you REALLY shouldn't worry a jot about residuals.
Let's cheer folk up a bit.
1. It's a great time to buy a quality used bike at Dick Turpin prices.
2. You buy and sell in the same market so if your old and new bikes are down in value, your cost to upgrade will be less than in a buoyant market.
3. Don't flog it and take a big hit. Ride it and enjoy it for another year or two and you will probably not lose a huge amount more in residual value.
4. Take the following attitude if you are offered a crap price. "It's worth more than that to me!"
I hope that put a little smile on a few of you.
Rab
If you don't buy from a dealer or sell to a dealer it's always been a good time to buy and sell. I've made money on every one of my bikes.
Don’t upgrade don’t spend money on stupid accessories, just buy the right bike in the first place and definitely don’t buy Chinese motorcycles
@@rogerelwynjones1366basically i agree, BUT, “upgrade” or even “downgrade” i, but i tend to think most of us, always need a make a bike to become MY bike…. That is a “needed” ritual for me at least… but it doesn’t need money involved though… (but it often does) i don’t worry, it is part of the fun for me..
The problem is that people aren’t buying new so dealers are disappearing and existing owners are holding on to their bikes due to low sale values unless they desperately need the money.
@@chrishart8548 Oh yes, always buy from a private bloke, preferably one with a garage full of tools and known to be good at things mechanical!
43+ years of enjoying and riding many motorcycles, i have enough bikes and a nice workshop to see me out, It is the young ones i feel sorry for. Ride for the experience and the memories,. The minute you draw your fist breath, it cost you money 😊. Keep enjoying it all. Happy riding, stay safe.
I didn't buy my bike to sell it. I don’t care if it's lost a tonne of money. In 18 months, I've done 11,000 miles. I absolutely love it! What am I riding? A Royal Enfield Classic 350 signals. Brilliant!
Love the signals
lol jeez
Thanks for posting, all very interesting stuff. I bought a 2023 Moto Guzzi V7 850 Special last year. It is my intention to keep it for the next forty years. It's "value" will be in the use I get out of it in that time. (Not in what someone will give me in a years time when I have got bored of it!) Britain is in the mess it is in now because of the financial model used by "Consumers" to purchase most items, including their transport. I paid cash for the Moto Guzzi, that I had saved up. The purchase price was £1200.00 off stock RRP because I was paying all of it up front and negotiated a good deal. I'll service it myself and the ongoing costs will be tyres, fuel, service items etc. About £500.00 P.A. It won't be the latest thing in five years time, but it will own me nothing.
As investments go bikes are a pretty poor choice
It’s the pleasure I get from riding them where the value is
If you use them for daily transport they're really not bad 'investments'
Spot on about creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. We've seen this in the past with everything from toilet rolls to petrol shortages.
My instinctive gut reaction tells me though that there has been a sea change in a lot of things since the heady cash-rich days of 2020-22. People are either affected now by the cost of living, or are fearful of commiting so much to what for most is a hobby. It's a multi factorial phenomena that applies to things like the cycle industry and even golf.
I've always been philosophical about losing money on selling bikes though. It's more painful if you sell within say 3 to 6 months but if you keep the bike for years then the loss spread across years I view as simply the price of the pleasure It's given me per year. I see it the same as spending money on a foreign holiday. You wouldn't expect to get those for free.
One thing I HAVE learned is that I've always had the habit of spending a fortune on accessories as soon as I get a new bike. Then I find after 6 months I don't gel with the bike and sell it at an even bigger loss. Recently I've forced myself not to spend a penny on dedicated accessories until I've had it for at least 3 months.
Great interesting video 👍 .
Without wishing to sound sanctimonious, anyone who sells a bike in 3 to 6 months hasn't done their homework, and has made an impulse buy. Everyone's budget is different and for a few, 5 - 10 grand loss here or there is considered a hire charge for riding something different. Entertainment value if you will. For the majority, flipping bikes is a costly experiment which requires a very indulgent dealer, or a hedonistic view of cost-per-mile motorcycling.
@borderlands6606 Sometimes you can research till the cows come home and get thousands of opinions but sometimes one just doesn't gel with the bike. It's like getting married...until you live with the bugger you really can't tell.
@@paulyflyer8154 agree about the accesories. U never get the money back. I KNOW!!
Hi all so Depreciation; what's it all about ?
Buying ANY new vehicle, It's the fastest way of getting rid of unwanted cash known to man. The day you take your 'brand new' vehicle out of the showroom for the first time, you have and always have done, lost between 25 and 30% of it's purchase price. Fact !
Add to that the fact that we are entering the season - for motorbikes at least - significantly slower sales. Good for buying, not so good for selling.
Add to that big changes in the new bike market such as significantly increased prices for the 'old school' bike mfrs, new entrants such as the Chinese factories with vfm offerings but little long-term history and a UK economy looking rather shaky. As a consequence we see bike retailers going 'tits up' and all adding to a bike market which lacks confidence.
100% RIGHT. I buy what I want, if it turns out to work pretty much how I want I hold onto it. You can only loose money but only if you sell it ! I want a desirable ADV to travel the world. as I only ride a few hours a week round the local lanes and a spot of shopping I had to forgo those dreams an settle for a brand new RE Scram (4k OTR) s it is all I need (Diffrent to all I want ;-)). I dont plan on loosing many thousnds of pounds on it either. Peeps need to honest with themselves and look at their user profile.
Those BSA red stickers really look good. Can you just imagine that 1 Harley-Davidson canbe more than your 4 bikes total? That's just insane. They ought to be ashamed of themselves & fire that CEO. Our market over here has not been affected to my knowledge. Have a beautiful day & thank's for your time. Cheers!! Illinois, USA
Morning Dave,
I once counted all the depreciation I had lost on all my bikes and cars since I started in 1976. I can’t recall exactly how much anymore but a few years back I could have bought a small house at the time. Yes I can’t argue that I have wasted an awful lot of money over the years but probably not as much as if I had smoked or drunk large amounts over that same period.
So in conclusion other than wasting a lot of money I’ve really enjoyed owning what I have owned so that’s life isn’t it. I would far rather regret what I have done than what I haven’t done.
I’ll still continue riding / driving and wasting my money , but enjoying doing so.
I think some vloggers etc can do more harm than good when they expose perceived problems that may or may not exist. It’s similar to reviewers on any medium. Many are very quick to criticise but not praise when deserved.
Absolutely pal…..great words there regretting that which we have done above what we haven’t
when money becomes tight, the toys always goes first, bikes boats campervans classic cars ect. on the upside my son-in-law works at a dealership he said sports bikes are dead in the water but the royal Enfield are selling well and also anything up to 650cc. the large capacity bikes are just not moving.
They're too expensive and there's too many speed cameras
Good video Dave. I have been a motorcyclist since the mid 70s and have seen the changes along the way. Big dealerships were absorbing small family run businesses, and we had giants like Motorcycle City, Carnell, and Cusworths, just to name a few, all gone now. So dealerships going under is not new. I'm guessing that the business model of the failed dealers cannot absorb the almost perfect storm of cost of living crisis, fewer people taking up motorcycling, lousy weather, high price of new bikes plus there seems to be that motor finance lenders are now reluctant or pulling away from the motor sector. There has been some TH-cam content from car channels indicating this, I can't verify this as I'm not in the process of buying a bike or car on finance. I doubt very much that I will change my motorcycles at all over the coming 12 months or so. I have the bikes I want all fitted with the accessories I need, so I'm just going to ride them and enjoy them and not worry about depreciation. I do tend not to buy new and look for the cleanest low mileage example usually from a dealer with a warranty.BSA do seem to be trying to get on top of the issues reported at last, Richard from Bankrupt Pensioner did a good video on his take regarding BSA. The Goldstar is a great bike, and I really enjoyed my ride on it, and at today's pricing, it is a bit of a bargain.
And don't forget the big car groups like Pendragon that bought bike dealerships to try to cash in on the popularity of bikes at the time - then sold on or closed those dealerships when they found it harder than car sales.
They didn't help themselves by getting rid of experienced bike dealer managers and replacing them with car orientated bean counters with no bike experience.
Cheers Pal yes I’ll be holding on too and yes good video from Richard BP
Problem with BSA is they’ve now pulled the rug from under their customers by so heavily discounting new bikes. New Gold Stars can be had for under £5k which is over £1,500 less than they were at the start of the summer. At that price new who’s going to buy a second hand one? - dealers are left with no margin to work with so they don’t want them. BSA have destroyed the value of their own brand and sold their customers down the river.
RE has done the same and you can now buy a new Interceptor for £5000. Back in 1980 I bought a new Suzuki GSX750 for £1699 and then they reduced the price to £1399! I've never forgiven them.😂😅😊
That needs correcting ... Mahindra have destroyed the BSA brand that they paid so much money on and passed it onto mugs who think that branding was worth anything. It takes more than a plastic badge on the tank to make a bike a Gold Star.
I think people are over thinking this. If you look at the car market, dealers are closing, second hand prices are falling, same in Campervans, motorhomes and caravans. It’s the results of the global cost of living crisis and high interest rates. People don’t buy when interest rates are high …. On the bright side I’m a similar age to you and I’ve seen this before and the market bounced back. The really worrying trend is that kids can’t get into bikes as a cheap fun travel alternative. Just my thoughts.
How much money do you think a dealer should make on a used bike? Have in mind that, at the least, the dealer must stake his
or her reputation on the bike and give it space in the showroom for an unknown period of time. If it is autumn the bike may take up that space for months. The dealer does not know, with certainty, that the bike is fault free when it is traded in, so there is an always element of risk. In most cases the dealer will have to do some pre-sale preparation and some paperwork and provide a guarantee.
When the dealer eventually sells the bike, even if it is one year old, low mileage and immaculate, top money will be no more than 80% of the current new price. I suggest a trade-in offer of 60% is about as much as anyone can reasonable expect.
WOW! You have lost a fortune on those bikes. Thing is, most of us like me, have a one bike collection. We can't afford a bike or bikes costing 25,000GBP. I had to make my purchase count, and that one bike had to cover all what your 4 bikes do. I still tour, camp, attend rallys, scratch through twisties on a Sunday morning, commute into the city when I need to and just potter around and catch up with my mates. And it is the same with my 10-11 riding buddies. All with one bike garages as well. That's the reality. Interesting and great content mate. Keep up the good work
Cheers all from NZ
Well said. Which bike?
NC750X
In the group we have various bikes.
1200gs hexhead
3 Vstrom 1000s
Vstrom 650
KTM 990
CB500X
You get the picture.
10 years ago it was Hyabusas Blackbirds Z1000S etc. Older and wiser!😂
@@williambell12 I had that bike for a while. Great all rounder. Sold it and didn't lose too much on it. Honda quality. 😃
@@williambell12I ride with TBW Dave on a NC750x DCT and love it, great fun, easy to ride and a pleasure to own.
Underrated. Only sell the manual in NZ
I’m an old guy. As with most old guys with motorcycles, I often miss old bikes I sold. Now I don’t sell them anymore and feel much better about it.
You're right mate, I crave my old bikes I've sold, and I never even took a photo of my A10 combination I had in 1971 when I was 16. My current 8 aren't going anywhere, and one is a new BSA it's faaaantastic ❤😅
That’s a refreshing change a bike channel that sticks to talking about bikes instead of how they can’t make a video because the wind blew in the wrong direction last week and there’s no money in TH-cam and it takes 60 hours work to make another voice over video on less than minimum wage on a second note my local bike shop selling BSA and royal Enfield among others in Essex is up for sale for 2 and a half million quid if anyone is feeling flush this Christmas 😐👍
I've just twigged who you mean..😊
😅😅😅😅
Agreed. Enjoyed your comment. We know who you have in mind... 😀
Hilarious and of course we can all guess who you mean 😎👍🏻
@iantoy7778 we’re in good company 😂
Trouble is running four bikes means four times the expense, insurance, tax, running costs. You can only ride one at a time. Saying that I have two myself but I do often consider dropping to just the one.
Get 4 bikes that look similar, take all badges off and swap the plates around 😂
Ok no, don't do this....but it would work. Until a motorcycle cop pulls you over, maybe...
I have a 2003 Transalp 650 brought in 2021 for £1300 with 35k miles on the clock now valued at £1800 to £2k private. I also brought a GSX600f this year 2003 18k miles paid £1600 and it's mint. Valued private £1600 to £1800. So in theory I am up £800 total on bikes 🤑 👌. Both bikes were slagged off in the motorcycling press on release in the UK but people love them and a strong following for both is out there. Buy 2nd hand and make money 😲. Try it, you might like it 😂
G'day Dave. I bought a top of the line Victory touring bike new in 2015 for AUD $26600. It was and still is, the most expensive motorcycle I've ever bought. It's taken me all over the country since then and has brought me immeasurable enjoyment in that time. I'm fortunate to own quite a few bikes, so the Victory has only covered about 85000 kms at this point. I look after it, and figure it should give me good service for at least another 10 or so years. So if that comes to pass and it then becomes completely worthless, it's cost me $1330 per year. My neighbour and his wife just did a five week trip to Africa and it cost him 40 grand. I reckon my Victory was a bargain!
100%.👍
I have four motorcycles and none were bought as a hedge against inflation. I bought them to use and to ride. For those who bought a bike with an eye on the resale / trade in value maybe should have thought a bit more before they bought the bike in the first place. Far too many people express an opionion on a particular bike they have never owned or even ridden. For the record I have two 2022 Moto Guzzis: an 850 Special and an 850 Stone, A 1998 Yamaha XJ600n and a 2021 Classic 500 Royal Enfield. A four, two twins and a single. All are air cooled, with two valve heads.
Eh up Dave, good morning to you. Your garage reminds me of my loft (less the bikes), but they do say that a genius is rarely tidy 😊.
I've lost a small fortune on bikes too, over the years. But I don't think you can put a price on the wonderful life experiences and sheer joy they've provided.
Unfortunately, for far too long, motorcycles have been allowed to attain a very negative perception in the public eye. Often considered dangerous, anti-social vehicles without any attempt to present the balanced perspective which motorcycling - as a whole, deserves. It's not even on the radar of think tanks and politicians when considering the environmental benefits and it's place in securing true sustainable transport, which is a massive oversight in my opinion. The positive mental health benefits they provide to many people are seemingly never considered either. Add in, the cost of insurance, increasing thefts and the expensive and convoluted path to gaining a motorcycle licence, and it's obvious why motorcycling isn't taken up by youngsters like it was for previous generations. As a result, the average age of motorcyclists has been pushed further and further along. I'm afraid to say, motorcycling as a whole might be entering it's twilight years. It's really sad that the joy and sheer fun of the experience might be denied entirely to future generations.
Sadly I think you’re right there Philip 👍🏻
Regarding bikes and car depreciation before my company nearly went bankrupt during COVID, I would say my current position is solely down to my craze for vehicles. Sadly, I bought badly, Jags and Rover and even all the Triumphs I bought lost a lot. The only car that didnt lose much was a VW Golf. And the Harley I had for 6 months also kept its value. Certain brands and models hold their value, e.g a Toyota Land Cruiser and others dont, just about any Land Rover except the classic Defender. When you buy, take it into account and hope the one you like is one that holds its value, if not accept the consequences. Dont cry about it or be surprised . Also, NEVER BUY NEW, That's a very bad business decision. 👎💰 Buy a well kept 2nd hand bike from a desperate seller a save a lot. It just neans delaying gratificación a bit. 😉😇
Honest information, same could be said for cars in relation to devalues. I'd love a BSA goldstar, what a beauty. 🎉 We don't have bikes to save money, we have them to enjoy ❤❤ keep enjoying.. love your videos in whatever format you choose 😊 and poetry ❤️ thank you x
Thank you Martine I really appreciate those kind words and your continued support. Yes bikes are not a financial investment but they’re surely an emotional one and in that way keep paying dividends ❤️ xx
Wow I initially struggled to see the wood for the trees in your Garage perhaps some housekeeping would not go amiss however don’t listen to me as I’ve OCD 😊. Thanks for this interesting chat, motorcycling in general is shrinking due to an aging customer base and shrinking economy for luxury goods. Looking on the brighter side it’s Sunday morning in Northumberland and the roads are dry so I’m off out around the borders for some much needed therapy 👍
Well said. I much prefer these videos to the ones you do while your riding, much clearer audio. 👍 certainly here in AuS the trade in/ second hand market is woeful for Royal Enfield . It turns out there an investment in a hobby and fun, not a financial one. My 2 y/o 350 classic with only 1000Ks on it and in mint condition would only be worth half of what I paid for it now.
Morning David.
We buy a motorcycle for the pleasure we gain, along with the benefits they bring health wise for some of us. We all know that if looked after, your purchase will last for many years. And, if you buy the bike with a view to keep it for many years, your investment is safe .
Manufacturers take advantage of people by making minor improvements to their products to get you to buy new, or in some cases another.
Treat your purchase of a motorcycle as you would with your washer, fridge freezer etc, replace it when it's worn out.
Keep the videos coming, cheers.
The weather is of no concern to me as an all year rider.
My 2024 Transalp is for the next 3 years.
Based on the 2000+ miles I have enjoyed on it since buying it end of August, she has shown me there is no reason yet to move the her on, so the resale or trade in value is of no concern.
I think it boils down to what rider you are.
Is your bike your daily rider come rain or shine or is it a hobby for Sundays and sunny Saturdays ?
Both riders will have different objectives and views on the value and what "value" really is.
The market is behaving normally, winter is a kipper season for out door pursuits and come spring, will change upwards again.
As for this years Summer. Down here in the South it felt very nice indeed, still does in November (few extra layers on) so that issue might be based on your personal location.
Would be interesting to see what sales of motorcycles have been like in the year round warmer parts of Europe (Spain, Portugal, Greece) and so on to see how they compare with South and North England.
How that info is gleaned is beyond me but I am sure someone knows.
Wish you well and happy safe journeys on which ever bike you cock a leg over.
I think the main problem is that we've had a decade 2010-2020, of extremely low interest rates on bikes. Meaning finance was always dirt cheap, many people could afford to finance a new bike every year or two. So dealers were selling loads of new bikes. A problem of way too many used bikes available now and not enough buyers.
I wanted to trade in a 2006 Honda Pan European. Only has 11k miles on it, FSH. Total original, excellent condition. Dealer said they didn't want it. And the few that did offered me about half their showroom price. Decided to keep it, and just get another bike.
As many others have said, we love our bikes for many strange and curious reasons. My 2020 T120 and recent late 2023 V7 Special Edition are, today, my keepers. Sure, I reminisce about my older, past bikes, but this is where I am today.
Cost vs. future value is not anything that I've considered. Because I USE my bikes, I ride them as much as possible!
I do all the maintenance to the best of my ability ...
If I were to sell them, I don't expect any inflated selling price vs. original cost.... I'd love to sell them to a young guy/gal that wants to love them equally.
Many folks over here (canada) will even "train" new owners in basic maintenance 😊 of the bike.... whether it's a Harley, Triumph or Honda!
PS... PLEASE rotate your V7 mirrors 180 degrees so you're not looking at your elbows ❤❤❤❤
Good Morning Dave , I think you have hit the nail on the head with this video today mate , we can only hope we have a turnaround with the on going concerns at the minute , as always take care & ride safe
Cheers Steve 😎👍🏻
Wise words, let's hope that the down turn picks up and we don't loose too many suppliers 🤗
Having just ridden 500 miles in two days to attend a ride to remember a dear friend who died last week ( far too early he never retired) I reflected on the way back how precious memories are and if my spend on motorcycles gives me those memories it massively inflates the value and is my return on investment.
Unrelated I do think the TH-cam fraternity is doing harm to dealers and bike manufacturers with sensationalism around values and reliability. It’s seems to me it’s become a winter hobby horse to fill content as tours and bike reviews are thin on the ground. I feel for the dealers who have to try and make sales and build confidence in marquees that are getting unfair focus for the sake of ‘ views’. I respect how you ( and Ian) have approached the subject as I read balance in the videos made.
Finally values, I’ve only ever brought 2 brand new bikes in 46 years of biking and if I brought another id expect to loose more than buying a one year old bike as the new bike gives the first owner a special feeling in purchase and ownership, some are happy to pay for that and I respect that. Thank you for the content you produce, it’s entertaining and very watchable. Ride safe.
Thank you I really appreciate those kind words and yes when you think about it memories are a precious commodity 👍🏻
Look at the big posh showroom,all the staff,..none producers!...I'm a rich man,for I have no greed,...people brag,about how much they spend,the more they spend,the more it inflates their ego,..they are the suckers!..motorcycles are now,in most cases,toys...hard times ahead!
The worst thing that happened was a big car dealership buying up multiple motorcycle dealers then realising that they don’t get the same kind of margins as they did with cars and it’s a very different situation when selling motorcycles.
I usually buy motorbikes with the idea of keeping them for a while - at least 5 years. Therefore, I usually buy new knowing that, buy the time I come to sell them I will have had my money's worth.
I am definitely interested in a Gold Star 650 maybe early next yeat ...i like what you done yours it looks great !
I was at my RE dealer's for servicing of my Scram last Friday. They had a small selection of used bikes, including a very tidy Interceptor, with extras, for £3999. A bloke came in looking to part ex a BMW GS. They advised that they weren't taking any high-end bikes at the moment. There was another dealer close by, but they told the customer that he should expect a good £1000 less than he was hoping for.
I have no plans to sell my Scram, which at 2 years old is probably worth about £5 now that the 450 engines are about?! Although I am planning a second bike (not a car owner), the Scram will remain as my daily transport.
Thanks for the incites, thought provoking as always, I must admit that the thought of a new bike does appeal but I am constantly put off by the horrendous initial depreciation, sounds like now is a good time to buy nearly new second hand bikes.
MY BNSA 650 GOLD STAR IS A KEEPER, SO THE DEPRECIATION DOES NOT BOTHER ME AS I LOVE IT. HOWEVER THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A BETTER TIME TO BUY A SECOND HAND BIKE WITH VERY LITTLE MILEAGE ON THJE CLOCK AS PRICES ARE AT ROCK BOTTOM.
Don't shed a tear for the owners of the dealerships that close. The owners will no doubt be fine. I've worked for two big companies where the owners walked away with literally £mllions after milking all the money out of the company before bankruptcy. One owner actually took himself off the list of directors to avoid liability, after syphoning the cash into another business. Sympathise with the employees who are always the last to know and benefit the least from the closure, if at all.
Most employees only find that they are unemployed after turning up on a Monday morning to locked premises.
Spotted a May 2024 Enfield Classic 350 Halcyon Grey with 600miles going for £2995 the other day, which sold btw. £1500 off the new price! Great if you’re a buyer. Things will change though.
…..Classic 350 that is.
Supply and demand will always be the determining factor for any asset value. A depressed average household income, plus the awful weather, plus a declining population of motorcycle riders have driven prices down. Dealers are stuck with stock they bought a higher valuers that they now can't sell without taking a loss. I would assume all the stock from the shut down dealers will also appear on the market at lower prices which will further depress values. Things will bounce back I think but perhaps with people buying bikes that are a better value proposition. If you only do a few thousand miles a year then tieing up large sums of money on a rapidly depreciating assett makes little sense when you can have just as much fun on something cheaper. The Indian and Chinese manufacturers seem to be doing ok, but others less so. It always seems gloomy as we head into winter, let's hope the new year brings something better.
There is not going to be any bounce back .that I CAN GUARANTEE
Another very interesting and informative VLOG. Does this mean you may now consider keeping hold of your bike fleet for more than 12 months😄😁🤩. Just a little consideration, that garage wants some serious TLC and organisation, you may find something you have had for years.
Only weather I avoid is the hard water stuff, i.e. ice and snow. currently managing 12 months of riding thanks to its demise on a regular basis. 7k on my RE350, only original battery replaced. By the looks of them original tyres will be replaced soon.
Just so you understand.
We learn gifting.
Buying your bike something nice for Christmas doesn't help it to bond with you.
The feelings are never going to be reciprocated.
Embellishments work the same with everything, don't overdo it from the parts catalogue.
The cap badge has no function until it goes on the floor at the pump and even then doesn't protect the edges.
Learn to take those extra moments at the pump or add the cost of a fuel cap.
£63 for an OEM locking HD but you'll need to look up what your own cap costs.
Leave your best shades on the seat at your own peril, just a matter of time.
I think it’s great to have a nice selection of different bikes all with their different characteristics giving a lot of enjoyment yes higher running costs but the feeling they give is worth every penny well done enjoyed the video
It's not just motorcycle dealers having difficult trading times. I work from nationwide Builders merchant and our turn over has halfed from 28 million pounds a year to 12 million pounds a year just at our branch.
Jesus that's terrible, sad to hear.
Interesting, thanks for your video. The opening financial part, confuses me, no one would expect a youtube channel with this few Subscriptions to make any money, and your purchase of four new machines in one year and the reported depreciation is not really newsworthy, what did you expect the situation to be, of course you are going to lose huge amounts of cash, particularly with your choice of models. You are an enthusiast, not a business, so just ignore the drop of asset value ands enjoy your bikes. It is worth avoiding the attempt to make a logical answer ‘I have four bikes, rather than a Bonneville for the same value, because this equates to spending £25000 on a bonneville, haha. Just admit that you, like most of us, like buying bikes, and you can’t take the dosh with you !!
I spent a long time in Mortorcycle Sales, which means i simply never buy anything which is not tried, tested, and proven to be a good machine, with great backup, and this has always worked for me, jeez the thought of celebrating successfully completing a few thousand miles without amy major issues is an astonishingly low expectation, and no reason to celebrate. I want 50,000 miles without issues ! Thanks for your time taken to create the video ( s ) enjoy your biking !
Hi Dave I am a biker of fifty years I have two bikes. But what I would like to say is I think the same is happening in the car market. I bought a new Mercedes last June and just found out that I have lost over £11000 in the car value since then I am not amused by that.
Each to their own, but Im happy with two bikes , so hopefully less depreciation . One of the bikes is 40 years old and thankfully only needs normal servicing stuff plus a bit of oil in the frame tank now and again , a straight 40 grade which was the same oil that the Detroit 2 stroke diesl engine used, fitted in an Aveling Barford motor grader I looked after !. So I have enough lubricant for 2 or 3 lifetimes 😊
I have been in the Motorcycle Trade (And still in it) since 1977, you talk a lot of sense.
I live in Greece and the motorcycle market is going well for one simple reason......the weather
Never bought a brand new motorbike & have been riding since 1979. I like old bikes and I do my engine rebuilds & all my own repairs where I can.
Enjoy working on them as much as riding them. I’m up to 10 bikes now (if you include my 4 pedal and go mobylettes) as I’m not good at letting them go.
Profit never comes into it. I dread about the money & time I’ve spent messing around with them but it beats watching TV 📺
Morning just enjoy the riding. You may find a youtuber called Bankrupt Pensioners vlog about the BSA Gold Star electrical problems interesting.
What is happening isn't a crises; it's an opportunity. Buy used. Buy what you really want; change the oil twice as often and use OE air filters for the most effective air filtration. Any engineer worth his salt will tell you that a clean engine is a happy engine that will run nearly forever. Spend the depreciation you won't have to pay on riding. Result: Happiness!
Very good! Thank you for the video! These crazy times are scaring people to spend their money for "unnecessary things". Car market or guitars markets are depressed too (to speak of what I observe every day). BUT... we managed to survive untill now, and it was not so easy too, so let's be reasonable (not what EU is doing!!). You make a great job in tempting to make bikers mature in their mind... Like the Old School ADVrider which is a great channel too (💚411 Himalayan 💚)! Thanks again and NEVER try to sell your adorable blue Classic 350 I love so much 🥸😉
I enjoyed this video and thought it well balanced, thank you. I only have one issue and that is the headine on the page that admittedly drew me in (CF Moto and BSA Blues).
I own a Goldstar and also think its a fantastic motorcycle for the money, much like yourself, I've had no issues so far during my 1200 miles over the summer. Unfortunately there are a lot of doom monger keyboard warriors out there who don't get past the headlines and seem intent on trashing the brand and I think maybe your headline won't help.
Like I said apart from that I love the video and have now subscribed !
All the best,
Brian.
Hi, nice If shocking video bud. k, I live the other end of the country, where Colchester KAWASAKI main dealers have announced a radical change of there futures. It features discontinuing dealing in KAWASAKI, also there PIAGGIO dealership has ceased. The dealership has stated there future heads to BSA and Royal Enfield.! - happy riding bud.
Of my 3 bikes, Rocket 3 TFC (held its value), Speedmaster (increased in value by 2k) and Tiger Explorer 1200 (lost 35% of its value). Had 10 Triumph’s and they have all been brilliant! Classics and cruiser hold their valve whilst the Tigers deprecate far more.
I’ll stick with Triumph, best in every class they operate!
Good garage chat re the bikes, Dave. Am currently sitting with 3. Due to being offered half what I paid for My new Rebel 500, putting on many extras. Service package, Datatool too.
In a quandary as, do I try sell now……or sit on fence till mid February and then put up for sale??
As you mentioned it’s not the purchase. It’s the up keep. Petrol, servicing, road tax, insurance.
Times, as the amount of bikes a person owns.
It is nice to have the choice of ride for the day. 😊
The weather this year, has been poor. This may, be a norm, from now on. Who knows??
Maybe the winter be a touch milder.
Anyway, enough waffle……enjoy your nice array of bikes, a very enjoyable choice. I guess we gotta except the falling values of trade in.
I just view as being medicine for my health conditions. 😊😊😊
If the value of our ridden assets are now significantly lower value, then replacing them should also cost less.
Insurance industry still keeps hiking our premiums?
A motorcycle is a liability not an investment.
The residual value is only part of the calculation of overall loss.
Please learn the essential differences between investment and liability.
My 26 year old Harley FXDL will already have cost £3k for the initial shake down 1500 mls.
£2 per mile.
A 100 mile round trip is therefore currently £200.
As the time rolls by the cost per mile gets closer to mpg + parts.
Buying new is everything you pay in divided by the miles travelled.
Knock off the realistic residual value for cost per mile.
Multiply that by a chosen trip out and buy yourself something nice to eat when you get there because it works out to be a drop in the ocean.
I think the number one reason for the downturn in the uk motorcycle industry is the recession. Value drops are dependent on model and manufacturer but if you’re happy with the bike you have and aren’t selling, what’s the problem ? Ride and enjoy.
Thank you for this video and your honesty 🙏🏻
Thank you sir 🙏
My local dealer, Colchester Kawasaki announced they were closing at the end of next month. Never saw that coming at all. Prices always rise in spring/ summer in the second hand market especially when the weather is good.
BIG thumbs up from Long Island New York! Thank you for being a great MC contributor!
Thank you Jim much appreciated sir 👍🏻
I saw in one of the groups a line drawing overlaying CF Motos head and KTMs head. The CF Moto is different. I believe though that the cams are the same which proves the issue is with the heads. I've looked a fair amount and cannot find any posts or vids or photos showing wear to CF Moto 800 cams. I'd be reasonably confident that they don't have a problem but if I were to buy one it would only be from an established dealer so if anything went wrong they would support you. A large multi franchise dealer near me closed recently, p&h in Crawley. They were a CF Moto dealer and I went over there to take a look and a sit. I was very impressed with the 800. It made me think though that should you make a purchase and your dealer goes to the wall then what support have you got?
I have had and rode motor cycles since I was 16 I am now 72 I have the biggest I have ever owned 1150 rt BMW only done 500 miles last year and loved ever mile of it
Lovely colour on the BSA...really suits it.
Dealerships not taking bikes isn't a new thing. Well over a decade ago they were actively declining taking px's of niche bikes or even servicing them despite having well established running gear from a main manufacturer. Being then obliged to do it myself I found that I needed them less and less. I sought out independent garages for the spannering I couldn't do and sold via internet.
Our local main dealers don't seem to be doing well.
One has dropped it's Honda franchise( hardly surprising, a most boring line up imho).
One dealer is up for sale.
The other has very large premises, is rammed with new bikes, multi franchise. Lots of Orange coloured bikes. One manufacturer with the oldest model line up and a manufacturer who uses green a lot with very little pillion accommodation.
One thing in common, they're all blooming expensive.
All of these outlets have become overly reliant on selling bikes using PCP finance. This has to some extent disguised the real cost to the gorra 'at the latest model MCN reader type.
Uncertainties about cost of living, mortgage interest rates are keeping younger buyers away and pensioners willing to have more bikes than they can reasonably use getting rarer daily.
Not looking good for the high overhead, expensive franchise model.
Manufacturers are mostly to blame. Diva demands, such as, you can only sell our bikes! (Honda). You must buy huge numbers of our expensive models (Yamaha). Dealers don't make a large profit on a new bike sale, The commission on the finance, accessories and servicing is where the profit lies.
The relationship between motorcycle dealers and buyers has been sketchy for as long as I can remember. Bikes are seen as a volatile commodity of questionable reliability, as are their owners. Guilty until proven innocent, kind of affair. There is little sense that the punter has invested £x thousand in their product, and mutual good will is the order of the day. More like a ticking timebomb in a game of pass the parcel. Perhaps I've been unlucky, either way nowadays I buy bikes as infrequently as possible and acquaint myself with their foibles and appropriate spanners at the earliest opportunity.
Where there’s a will there’s a way. Buy cheap stack em high in containers then sell to the most profitable market abroad. And so lack of secondhand models will drive prices up here. Markets do what markets do and the brave make a killing. Maybe USA or am I just dreaming.
I own my bike till there is generally no value left so it doesn't ever really bother me. As for Tingle. He bought a used bike. It more likely had bad work done on it.
Hi Dave, of course most bikes did not bring realy much money, when you try to sell them. I agree with you, at the moment the gap got bigger. But...we never know.
I like 3 of your 4 bikes very much, so keep on with the good work.
Hopefully there are some dry and sunny days this year, temperature is often not the main problem. Motorbikes help against gremlins in the head.😊
Why four new bikes anyway? You can only ride one of them at any given time.
The BSA would be my choice out of them.
Yeah, why buy four bikes? You could have bought one good one and not lost anywhere near as much.
@@ronlysons6750 I used to work with a bloke that had three girlfriends, I made the same comment !!
@@russthebiker Maybe you should practise what you preach. lol
So I wear two hats, bicycle and motorcycle, and there are parallels between the two. Businesswise, parts became sporadic, with bicycles you had to estimate 6 months stock (parts and bikes) or you would be unable to work and hence, unable to earn. Buy to let interest relief was ended, so these costs will be pasrt on in rent rises. Commercial electricity had no cap, so it essentialy quadrupled. Then the Trussanomics budget happened and put huge pressure on consumers with their elective purchases. Valuations will both reflect the finacially restrained customer and supplier as well as undersupply snapping to over supply.
If you buy bikes thinking of re-sale value you are in the wrong pastime ! I would still have the 1975 triumph T160 that I acquired in 1978 if it had not got stolen from my garage in 1993. The reason being the bike was fun to ride. On the same note to replace the T160 I got a 1994 Triumph 900 Daytona in 1996 and I still have it simply because it is fun to ride as is the 2010 street triple that I still have. For long distance touring I got a triumph 1050ST sprint, a brilliant bike that I intended to keep but when I got a Moto Guzzi V100S I found I was not using it and the Moto Guzzi was far more fun for the long distance role so the 1050st sprint got sold purely because the fun had gone out of it and the garage space can now be used for another bike to enjoy. The value in my motorcycles is not the cash they are worth but the fun and enjoyment they bring to me, the trick is to choose a bike carefully for the fun they will bring you and if you get it right you won’t want to sell them…….. but as an aside to this i see the value of the early Hinckley built triumphs creeping up so maybe my 900 Daytona will be an appreciating classic for those who acquire my estate when I kick the bucket……….but i have no intention of selling it !
Sobering video. Still it’s nice to hear the various issues relating to motorbikes and the industry being discussed in a balanced manner. Let’s hope for a brighter 2025 season.
Low residuals are a thing, for sure, but many people have been complaining that secondhand prices have been too high for quite some time and that the market has to readjust to the economic conditions. Now if you are in the secondhand market it is a bit irrelevant because you are selling at the lower price but you are buying your replacement at the lower price so overall you don't feel the pain but for new motorcycle buyers it is definitely more of an issue because new bikes are being discounted but not at the same level. I do agree that we could produce a self-full filing prophecy but I don't subscribe to the "let's all be positive" nonsense that some people want to see on TH-cam because we could equally be walking into big problems for our hobby. A declining market is good for no one and at what point do manufacturers start thinking of pulling out? We've seen the decline in manufacturers at Motorcycle Live over a few years which means that the UK market is less important. We have a problem with an ageing demographic with the average age now up to 54 so we and the industry have to find ways to make motorcycling appeal to youngsters.
I was reading a comment recently which suggested that buying new vehicles is a philanthropic gesture allowing people to subsequently buy vehicles second hand that they otherwise wouldn’t be able to buy new. My car is a Jaguar XJ which at 5 years old is worth less than 25% of its new value and was less than 33% when I bought it 2 years ago. Bikes generally are leisure vehicles and so suffer more than most from depreciation - it’s just a fact of life and proof if proof is needed that buying new is not cost effective. My bike is a 2019 Triumph T100 and I paid £3k less than list. I bought a fender extender and just used the double sided tape - stuck like s£&t to a blanket.
Il stick with my DCT Honda 1200x crosstourer. All the bike I ever need.
A great video TBW. The CFmoto 800MT is my favourite. That's all that matters!
If I could afford 4 motorcycles, then I'd be spoilt for choice.
Enjoy, keep riding in winter & ride them till they all rust away!
Cheers
Cheers Steve and I will 😎👍🏻
My next bike I’m getting is going to be a cheapy one, I won’t care about depreciation as long as I’m on 2 wheels for commuting. Insurance, running costs and depreciation is going against us now. The young ones won’t get into it unless they are hardcore..eg 125cc worth less than a grand, basic insurance is off the scale for them and three times the value of the bike.
Let’s enjoy it while we can as it really is diminishing and I’m not going electric!
I recently sold my ex WD trail BSA B40 and instantly regretted it. I build it 30 years ago for £850 total and sold it for £2350, which is maybe close to the same value over time. Had many other bikes over the years but the BSA was the last one remaining. I got the urge again recently and bought a Harley Sportster, just because I never owned a Harley and like the look/sound/ethos of the bike. It's 20 years old and I took the time to find one I liked in the condition I wanted ie great original, clean, low mileage etc. It was about 1/4 the price of a new Harley, and I intend to keep it for fine weather runs out (all year round). I don't mind being chilly but I've no desire to get wet through on a bike ever again.
I have spent more time sorting some irritating Harley related issues with the bike than riding it this year but I think it's almost there now. Looking forward to some pleasant rides in the future I have left - I'm 69 and making the most of it.
I have three bikes and the way I view depreciation is that I'll only lose if I sell them and I've got no plans for that. Two are late model bikes and one is 22 years old so has reached rock bottom in value, but is still enjoyable to ride so I will never sell any of my machines. They are with me until I die.
Buying a new vehicle is never an 'investment', you are always going to lose a chunk of money. The dealers even tell you this if you read between the lines... the MGFV on a PCP deal is what the dealers think the bike will be worth in 3 years, and on a PCP you pay for the depreciation, plus interest. You may have paid cash, so you've not paid interest, but the same applies with the future value. PCP is a dealers dream but a very poor deal for the buyer.
I never do pcp 😎👍🏻
Well me owd dad used to say thee spends thee money nd takes the chances, very much so now, with this current climate that slowly consuming us is or could be depressing, not for me, I have a 12 month old hunter and a 20 yr old bullet, I approach the three score nd ten eara of my life shortly and thank God the life of two wheels I have had, and still have, the powers that be would certainly like to have control over what we spend our dosh on and are trying to make sure our age group are going to pay, it’s a sorry state, but life goes on, thanks Mr Wheeler for another thought provoking vid
My dad had a 500 Bullet about Yr 2000 ... Special build/import very nice. He sold it!!!!
@stevet599 aww, that's a shame
Hello - Having watched your video you didn't report back with regards the Moto Guzzi V7 (Or did I miss it)
See latest video
I wonder if the rush during Covid to buy bikes had an impact. Dealerships not holding enough back and indeed folk keeping the bike. It's not like they wear out in two years or so.
To approach the motorcycle experience in terms of an investment is to guarantee disappointment
That’s why I don’t 😎👍🏻
Will the D Cat affect the Warranty on the BSA ?
No I’m sure Hitchcock’s would have mentioned that
What a beautiful selection of bikes you have in your garage😮..wish you all the best.
Excellent as usual keep up the great content.
By the way the weather is NOT down to anthropogenic global warming aka climate change.