"Reel" Frippertronics with Reel to Reel Tape Decks! (Ambient Guitar Techniques)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 เม.ย. 2017
- Frippertronics - an ambient guitar delay technique popularized by Robert Fripp of King Crimson fame. Learn how to use a pair of reel to reel tape decks to create his signature tape loop delay sounds!
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Equipment used:
Carvin HF2 Allan Holdsworth Signature guitar
Wampler Ego Compressor amzn.to/2oY6z77
Strymon Riverside Overdrive
Morley Little Alligator Volume Pedal amzn.to/2oXZzqX
Teac A340 Tape Deck
Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 firewire audio interface
Apple Logic Pro X
chords of orion - ambient/post-rock guitar music for the mind and heart.
bill vencil - guitars
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I've always found it amusing that Fripp - an absolute monster of a guitarist who has the most outstanding command of the instrument (I mean, Fracture...) also implemented this system, which - if we remove the technical aspects of the equipment - is a means by which a fairly average guitarist like myself (or, actually in my case a distinctly less-than-average guitarist...) can create beautiful music.
It really shows that Fripp really is about the sounds that he creates, not about the espousing his virtuosity.
For really long sustains, certain frequencies tend to cause feedback, and the schematic shown on Eno's "Discreet Music" album shows an equalizer in the feedback loop to cut those frequencies. A crazy version, which I've tried, stretches the tape across a room. Lots of flutter!
Holy crap, I've been waiting for a GOOD tutorial on using Frippertronics forever. I just found this channel a month ago, this is awesome to see!
So glad you like it!!
Nicely explained. At college in the 70s we had two Teacs in the music department and used to do this with them across the room from each other. Around '81 there was a guy in the village in NYC (forgot his name) who took the tape between the two recorders and passed it through a ring on a helium balloon. He did pitch and delay changes by raising and lowering the ring. Cool stuff.
Whoa, I would have liked to see the helium ballon technique!
Wow
Bob Ostertag is the artist you are thinking of… he inspired my sonic explorations with this tape system in the early 80s.
I recommend Bobs record with Fred Frith “getting a head”
@@brianfergus839 ...on the fine Rift Records label, also responsible for 'Cargo Cult Revival' LP, a Tom Cora/ David Moss collaboration.
@@whatevershebrings yeah I still have that LP, too 👍 wow… what a reference! The David Moss/Fred Frith concert I attended in 1980 was a huge “ear opener” for me, and inspired my move to a more alternative approach to musical performance.
Frippertronics and Holdsworth guitar! Thank you so much for connecting these two! Wow!
This is blowing my mind...I absolutely loved Fripp and Eno as an impressionable yoot. This is wonderful stuff and I'm feeling super nostalgic. Now I need to get a second reel to reel! Thanks!
That tone on just the distortion and compresser wowzers beautiful in and of its self.
What a top chap. Really enjoy your channel/vids. Thanks
This is exactly what TH-cam is for. Brilliant stuff.
I love your work. Thanks for sharing and teaching.
Super cool! Thank you You Tube for putting this in my Recommended and thank you for sharing Chords of Orion.
That was an awesome demonstration. Its lots of fun seeing how the older technology works and always a lot of fun rigging together a project based on old technology. Thanks for the video.
You are welcome!
NOTHING BEATS reel-to-reel. The music is textured you can almost feel it.
Guys were using sound on sound rtr decks for preamp boost and echo (Ritchie Blackmore). Fripp took it to studio scale for guitar. Very nice!
Brilliant, so interesting, great sound from the tape decks!
Really cool Frippertronics demo, thanks!
thanks for this vid!!! great explanation of this! really eye (and ear) opening!!! love your insights and have been watching for a while now. very inspiring.
Very cool! You’ve inspired me to dig out my old reel to reels and give this a try.
So cool. Thanks for keeping Frippertrics alive bro!
Frippertronics*
You might lament that you don't have Revoxes to use but what you have allows for, now get this, *multi-tap delays*!!! On deck #1, take out 1 to in 2, out 2 to in 3, out 3 to in 4 and out 4 to in 1 of deck #2. Then do it all again on deck #2. If you "Y" your outputs, even if you select only some of them, you can send these extra outs to the PA mixer for your multi-taps. With aux sends on each PA channel, you can go crazy with selecting which track(s) get fed back (at varying intensities) to in 1 of deck 1. Now go nuts! :-)
Hey Bill - that would indeed be nuts!
highly appreciated your efforts. The Eno/Fripp sound is still unrivaled. Eno once stated that he digitally wanted to recreate the (tape loop based) sound of "Discreet Music" digitally and could not get to the sound, eventually giving up on the digital recreation.
Agreed! I love creating Frippertronics style effects with digital pedals, however, I have not yet heard one that sounds exactly like tape.
Probably foiled by the consistency of digital. Tape doesn't run very smoothly, there are little fluctuations in timing that make it not sync up with other tapes. Using digital looping, you couldn't get the inevitable variances of two tape machines working against each other like on Discreet Music.
@@noesunyoutuber7680 you can do that digitally with variations and randomizers. Tape has a certain sound and it not wow an flutter. It's like a natural compression when you hit it a tad harder than normal.
It amazes me how many people don't realise that "tape delay" had anything to do with tape.
the look of joy on your face when you start to play is wonderful . loving your work Bill , keep inspiring .
I must admit to a certain amount of happiness when I am playing music. :-) Thanks so much for the encouragement!!!
Awesome video. Such a soaring sound.
Nice! I saw Mr. Fripp do this LIVE, about 5 feet away in a record store in Albany NY.
Thank you for your investments and story. Good sound, fine musician.
Sounds amazing!
That’s the coolest thing I’ve ever seen
Amazing sounds.
Sounds great!!! The sustain alone from your guitar and drive before the delays were great too!
Frippertronics started post King Crimson, *after* his intended retirement following his awakening experience and his ten months at Sherborne house, under the tutelage of J.G. Bennet, who had studied with Gurdjieff. According to Fripp, it started quite accidentally from a spontaneous invitation from Brian Eno to come visit him at his house. So, Frippertronics began approximately in 1975. Fripp details its origins in several interviews found in the King Crimson wiki aka Elephant Talk for those interested.
I think Fripp was under the tutelage of an intermediary who had himself been under the tutelage of J.G. Bennett, because while Bennett was a huge inspiration to Fripp (and Fripp cites him as such), I’m pretty sure Bennett had already died by the time Fripp got to Sherborne House, although only quite recently before. But yes to everything else you’ve written!
I can listen to this sound for eternity.
I owned two TEAC reel-to-reel tape decks in the late 70's and discovered this technique then, but discovered soon after that Brian Eno had already used in on his Discreet Music release! No glory for me, except that I had an incredible time creating complex soundscapes and doing real "flanging". It was a hassle, though, so I'm glad to have entered the digital world!
Same here 🤛
Very good.Thanks.
It's amazing experiment!
Terry Riley.
A long time before Fripp.
(Fripp is erroneously credited with the 'invention' of this technique - in fact, it was developed - at Riley's behest - by a sound engineer working on a project with him in 1963. They dubbed it: 'Time-Lag Accumulator". Curved Air/Poppy Nogood came out in 1969 and was an epiphany for many musicians/composers of the time (Pete Townshend, Mike Oldfield etc.), particularly Eno who subsequently developed "Frippertronics" for Fripp.)
Thank you! I’m a huge Fripp fan, but I was about to post a similar correction … then I thought I’d scroll through the comments to see whether anyone else already done so, and I saw that you had.
It should also be noted that Mr. Fripp is quite generous, and very much a straight-shooter, and in the relative present I’ve seen him unselfishly credit Mr. Riley with the invention of this delay system many times.
Thank you for having posted your credit to Mr. Riley!!
This tells me what I've been listening to for the past 47 years. Cool video.
Excellent!!
Very sweet, Mr. Chords of Origon :)
Oh man!!! That was AWESOME!!!
Thanks!
This is excellent!
Beautiful
Bravo. Grazie!
Thanks....really appreciate your videos. I learn a lot in just a short time
Glad it was useful for you!
This is awesome
Love it!!
Amazing!
Totally dig your H2 Holdsworth. I had a pin stripe one and really liked it. Carvins were awesome/
Grande Bill!
Drooooool. Those tones.
My early eighties setup! Except I had mismatched reel to reels. Hauling to a gig was such fun!
Great! I just did a fan with an old record player, in a hot summer: D
that is a very cool setup you have built there
Simple technology yet wonderfully weird. I have been a fan of Fripp since 1969. Brian Eno introduced the technique to Fripp in the spontaneous creation of The Heavenly Music Corporation on No Pussy Footing. The composer Terry Riley pioneered the technique with pieces like 'Poppy Nogood and the Phantom Band' from the seminal album A Rainbow in Curved Air. I think it dates back to LeMont Young. Eno invited Fripp around to his apartment and simply plugged him in to the system with a minimum explanation of how it worked. A wonderful moment of spontaneous creation captured for posterity.
VERY interesting! Thanks very much!!!!
You are welcome!
Thanks for the tutorial. I saw/heard Robert Fripp with the latter incarnation of King Crimson at a medium size nightclub in Boston in the mid 1980's. It was a bit of a religious experience! My memory is foggy enough to prevent me from knowing if he was using a couple of R2R decks in his setup, but they may have been hidden from view, I look forward to trying this setup with electric bass . . . but I will need to convince a friend if I can borrow one of his R2R decks for the fun! Peace . . . keep making great tones.
Good stuff.
nice, very nice.. I'm going to try this albeit with a teac x-3 and 2240.. should still produce a similar result.. also using synths and drums.. gotta love that fripp sound though
Awesome 👍 Its really impressive, and sound different, not like digital delay
This is awesome. I'm going to run down to Guitar Center and pick up a couple of those reel to reel machines today!
:-)
Really interesting video. I experimented with Frippertronics in the early 80s (using a keyboard). Unlike your setup, I merely used a looped tape between the 2 decks. I've always considered experimenting with this again, but alas I don't play anymore nor do I have easy access to reel-to-reel decks.
I wish Carvin still had their warehouse in San Diego. I should have bought a couple of their guitars back in the day.. they're like 10 times the price.. they made the best guitars what was I thinking
Thanks Bill! This is quite interesting. I remember and liked King Crimson well, but at the time, the Frippertronics thing didn't grab me. You cleared up a hazy area in my understanding of "tape delays". I got the part about 2 decks, the first to record, the second to play, but I didn't realize about putting it back through an effects loop to keep re-recording the original delay. That makes a lot of sense now. We are lucky to be living in the time of "digital" tape delay.
It is a lot easier with newer delays for sure! But there is something visceral about tape spinning.
This was awesome Bill. I've wanted to build one of these since I saw the tape delay diagram on the back of Brian Eno's Discrete Music. Thanks for doing this. - Harry
Glad you like it Harry!
Dope!
What a pleasure to watch those reels turn round and round and hear music. Hey man can I achieve echo with only 1 tape recorder? With a mixer
I think one way to simulate using a pair of open reels using digital delays and a looper, is to use a stereo tube preamp in between the delay and the looper and a stereo parametric to filter the highs a bit. Open Reels usually had some preamp tubes in side. Many digital delays will have an analog type setting that allows you to filter the highs. Use a smaller mixer to do the feedback loop into the looper. I have a Teac 4 track and Teac 2 track. However they need some work before I could experiment with them. I really liked this video!
I like your idea. Definitely worth a try if you are looking for analog vibe in your looping!
Actually a top explnation .
Thanks a lot
You are welcome!
@@chordsoforion What about tyng to explain how Eno's"Discreet music" has been composed..I think you're one of the few that can do it..Thanks again!!
Wow Bill thanks for show us how this was at the bigginings
Amazin' tones! Can't wait fer yer next video. I do hope to one day acquire the Strymon El Capistan to emulate that tone. And I did just acquire the TC Electronics Mimiq. It really makes my acoustic-electric guitars sound bigger. I really like that bigger sound a lot. Keep up the good work!
Thanks!
Oh me God! Tapes.... It's been a looong time since I used any tape recorder) Thanks Bill for that excursion to the past! Seems like there's some Frippertronics fever this year within Ambient Guitar TH-camrs))) at least I'm getting deep with it
I learned about Robert Fripp and his tape delay style via David Sylvian and yeah its a cool thing.
Some information: Recently Audio Damage released Enso. A 4 section looper which functions as a Frippertronic device as well. Yesterday Valhalla DSP released a fantastic Delay plugin which also has a Frippertronic emulation on board besides a lot of other delay functions. I don't know if you use plugins but I thought it could be of some interest. Have a great time.
Thanks for the tips on the plugins. I was aware of the new Valhalla delay, but was not aware of the audio damage. will check it out!
Nice 😎
Makes me really appreciate my looper pedals
Definitely a little easier!
Wow - I cannot imagine how long it took to attain these machines!
I've had both of these machines for many years, however, it's pretty easy to get a Teac A3440. I see them on eeay all the time.
Could you try the Amulets method with Sony walkmans and a portastudio ?
Cool video, Fripp, was a mad genius.
You can do this on an Electroharmonix Canyon Delay pedal. It has a tape delay on it that you can get close to that sound with the tape decaying ECT.
Fripp was ? He IS! He's still around.
Hi,
I just so happen to have 2 teacs as well and would like to know how to connect the third channel to feedback the delay.
Thanks!
interesting and fun to watch! Im also a fan of Fripp through Crimson as well as his work with Eno. Im suprised when people discuss this technique/method no one discusses Brian Mays work with Queen back in 73-74 on "Brighton Rock" and his live guitar solos since to me they are very similar but Fripp seems to get sole credit
Did he use the 2 tape deck method to create extended looped layers of delays? I went back and listened to Brighton Rock and it sounded like an he was using an Echoplex in the latter part of the song during the extended solo. Maybe I am incorrect on that?
Chords Of Orion yes absolutely..he did use an Echoplex youre correct...i guess i was just making reference to both of their unique approaches with multitracking/looping with surprise that they were never discussed together. Different approaches,but great creative players for sure!! two of my faves for sure!! thanks for the response and love your videos!
Don’t forget Brian Eno, who introduced Fripp to the technique. Haven’t you listened to Fripp and Zeno’s albums?
A lot of comments about "why don't you just make a loop of tape?" One good reason not to do that is because of potential dropouts as the splice point passes the heads, especially if the splice is not made very carefully. A 2400' reel of tape that you reuse for the effect avoids that possibility. That gives you 32 minutes at 15 ips before you have to rewind.
The thing that occurred to me that you didn't really discuss was the idea of using both playback heads, not just the one on deck 2. If you feed the outputs of both decks into the mixer, you can create multiple delay times. Adding feedback from one deck or the other back into the signal, or feeding the record signal into both decks (disable the erase head on deck 2), different wet levels vs. dry, different EQ on different returns, panning the returns separately...SO much to play with here! Your Teac A-3440 decks, besides having two main speeds (7 1/2 ips and 15 ips) also have a pitch control. You'd have to adjust both machines to the same degree (rather tricky), and it will never be able to adjust delay times with the precision of a digital delay, but would give you some control along those lines as well.
One of the most impressive results I hear with this approach is that a guitar can be made to ring in a way that doesn't sound like a guitar; it sounds like some other-worldly bowed instrument, or an analog synthesizer, or -- I don't know what, but not a guitar. Amazing effects that even digital can't do. Tape saturation, wow & flutter, there's just a lot going on with an analog tape deck that gives it that unique sound. And you employ it very well. Thanks for a great demonstration!
It really does remind me of the album 'The Essential Fripp & Eno'.
Cool!
So how do I get this from my mixer to my Marshall amp for a live setting. Cheers
🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Bill that looks so fun! Thanks for the post. I especially like how you call out the "crunch distortion" on the loop decay. Curious how to recreate the "Let the Power Fall" sound with TC Electronic Ditto 4 (PS loved your Ditto 4 part 2 when you did Frippetronics there )or a Strymon El Capistan?
I remember that fateful day I got "Let the Power Fall" in high school after reading the Guitar Player interview and trying to get that insert to play on my turn table. I think Fripp was doing the Crafty Guitarist in NC. All the Cybernetic principles on the sleeve confused and confounded me in the most wonderful ways. That album One if not THE guitar mind melting moment of my life; Along with Evening Star of course but that came later for me :-)
I've got some ideas for the "Let the Power Fall" sound. To me, it sounds like Fripp used 2 channels of of the tape deck to achieve the left/right stereo slap. Will play around with the X4 and some delays to see if that can be reproduced.
Can someome explain me how he put the tape on the reels that way?
this rules
Hi, I have a Teac A3340s tape deck like yours. What I would like to know is how could I connect just one deck up to a Vox AC30 guitar amp to get tape delay. The problem as you know is there are RCA jacks on the back of these Teac A3340s tape decks. Any advice on what to do here. I have a Yamaha 8 channel mixer , but the outputs are all +4db. Too hot to go directly into a Vox AC30 guitar amp. Thanks Michael Newell from Niagara Falls ,Ontario, Canada
Gde mogu nabaviti tako dobar uređaj za upotrebu
Imam 100 snimljeni traka na uheru koji je u kvaru.
My reel-to-reel AKAI cost a fortune. I can't even begin to imagine the money you poured into your tape players. Wow.
What you should try is bypassing the erase head on your recording tape deck so that you can create infinite ambient loops. It can be super fun, and you can move the tape decks further apart to create longer loops.
I used to put tape over the erase head in the old days from time to time... and absolutely - moving the tape decks further apart work for longer loops.
This is your best video yet. Thanks soo much. I would love those reel to reels. Any where u. Could recommend me searching?
Glad you like the vid. As far as getting a tape deck, I have no specific suggestions, but if I were in the market, I would start with Ebay.
Chords Of Orion Don't ya mean eVILbay.....lol
But getting back to the Flippertronics, I way b4 this TH-cam in the late 80s hooked up 2 teak deck, from memory the 2300 something 7" & a 3300 10" that I replaced the 240 vlt 2 speed capstain motor with a 18 v video motor with tacco feedback run off a modified driver board to allow variable speed from almost 30 ips down to 0 ips and reversible for the artists like John Michealle Jarre and Gorgio Morodar who with the track CHASE it through slowing down and 1-2 octaves plus reversing realised the amount of work put into just the VERY unique sounding backwards bell and twinkley sound when sped up and reversed to make it how the "norm" without much thought would hear it, no offense intended to anyone. I also used a graphic eq between the recording and fed back played signal from the 2nd deck with the variable to prevent harsh feedback when seeking a (at the time) thought was quite humble but affective echo. I nearly fell over when I came across your vid realizing I WASN'T ALONE. So owesome to go back down memory lane, cheers to you.
@@chordsoforion Try your local "craigs list"
Great Stuff! would you say that same tape machine is worth having if in good condition, to do a good production?
I guess it depends on the production. Many people would say that there are tape machines that are much better quality than the one in this video and will produce a better result.
Nonsense anecdote: Just when Fripp pulled the plug on the actual tape recorders, he bought, initially, two über expensive digital delays from company Eventide. Those delays wasn't at all thought of using like this, but used only in radio stations, when they aired direct broadcast delays. Whenever the radio host called up listeners, they could be talking anywhere out of their brains, or ars*** but all of the program went first through a BROADCAST/PROFANITY delay unit of 7 seconds delay, and the producer in the other room sat on duty listening carefully all of the time, and hit the bleep/mute button right at the profanity spot. So what went out on air was censored, moderated. Now, these delays had just ONE repeat, but Fripp bought two, and used a mixer to make them work.
Little did he have time to use this, before Eventide actually released a delay in rack format aimed at musical studios and musicians with built in delays and other things, pitch, reverbs, and looooong delays which could be regenerated. And of course, Fripp bought one, two or three...and endorsed them.
EDIT: But of course, I hear you think. That must have existed way before the 70s, 80s, but how did they manage? Alright, Terry Riley et al, maybe including Eno/Fripp too, got it originally from these days in the 50s:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadcast_delay
"The radio station WKAP in Allentown, Pennsylvania, introduced a tape delay system consisting of an external playback head, which was spaced far enough away from the record head to allow for a six-second delay.[1] A system of rollers guided the tape over the playback head before it wound up on the take up reel. This system was introduced in 1952 when WKAP started a talk show called Open Mic."
I wondered how this was done with tape decks. I nice example is on Fripps Exposure Album (Here comes the flood). Sounds bleak but really beautiful as well.
Thank you. Standout demo! The guitar tone is almost a clone ( Evening Star ). What compressor/ fuzz are you using for this sweet sound...
Glad you liked the vid! The compressor is the Wampler Ego and the overdrive is the Strymon Riverside.
Saw Fripp on the original Frippertronics Soundscapes tour. Just him solo, in the old Bathurst St. church in Toronto. Yeah, mid-to-late 70's would be about right I guess. It was Eno who showed Fripp this setup though. A pair of geniuses at work.The Frippster used a pair of Studer-made Revoxes, but these TEACs are good machines. I'm sure a few 70's albums were probably self-producd on these home/semi-pro decks.
Just a suggestion, but instead of running the tape up and around four reels-why not just use the two outside ten-inchers, and simply separate the decks to vary the echo lengths? (I think that's how Bob did it- I have seen Eno do it that way.)
If you really wanna "Fripp-Out" get a guitar with a Fernandes sustainer built in like Fripp- or hos older method for unlimited sustain with an e-bow.
You wouldn't happen to have a NOS set of Record and Playback heads you could part with for a 3440? Enjoyed your video!
Unfortunately no. There's a NOS record head on EBay right now!
What if you increased the distance between the machines to astronomical increase the delay time?
The loop would be a lot longer for sure. There are stories of recording "No 9" on the Beatles White album where people were standing in other rooms holding a reel or even a pencil to create super long tape loops.
do you have to have two tape machines to do this? or is there some way you could possibly make it hapen with one? i have a revox b77. thank you
this is awesome btw, thanks for the vid
If you can determine a way to lengthen the space between the record and the playback head one machine, you may be able to replicate the 2 machine dynamic. I think of the Beatles stories of them stringing reels of tape over the room to create longer loops.
Could you therotically use more tape machines to make longer delay?
Perhaps. If you could get a clean tape path. Also, you would have more playback heads to add to the mix, which might be cool.