Tape Plugin vs. Reel-to-Reel Tape Machine
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ธ.ค. 2019
- While mixing down an album I decided to do a little shootout and explanation of running the audio through an actual tape machine vs. a tape emulation plugin.
More information:
merwinmusic.com/2019/12/22/ta...
Patreon: / merwinmusic
Full Album:
open.spotify.com/album/0uAjFi... - เพลง
You're using a 7,5 ips maximum rtr but you've set the plugin to 15 ips... That's quite likely why you get very different frequency response.
Real Tape perfectly dealing with with low frequencies..
The plugin loses a lot of the low end, while the reel-to-reel tape machine amplifies it, but rolls off a lot of higher frequencies. The real tape machine sounds better, you just need to boost the higher frequencies.
Thank you for this, literally bidding on tape machines and wondering if I’m doing the right thing all week long. This is the only video that I can find on TH-cam like this. The real tape is really special, even though just 1/4” and a consumer level machine.
I would rather hear that real tape than that harsh high end on the plug in any day
5:30 comparison starts... Great video MerwinMusic, thanks for the rare chance to hear a match-up like this!
Real tape is really gluing all together. Realtape retaining low punch, sounding full, sweetening highs.
Plugin, real tape, whatever...none of them are a deal maker or breaker for the song
In this context the real one is better, but I think it just depends on how you use it. If you make some tweaks in the mixing to enhance the performance of the tape you can make either option sound amazing.
the teac really fits the vibe on this like suuuper well
To me, the difference between the plugin and the real tape is minimal, both sound great! However, I feel like if I were to record to tape, it wouldn't just be for the sound alone, it would be for the experience of doing it, and the mistakes that help create a song that aren't typically kept in during digital recording. A lot of people get into the debate of digital vs analog sound, but for me, its just the experience man, I could press record on my computer, that's cool, but loading up tape and having small mistakes makes the record more human, in my opinion of course.
Aiden Comes To Town
Are you serious? Did you hear the way that the real tape rounded off the harshness of that guitar? That waves sounded like crap!!
its so minimal that its a lot simpler to just use a Tube Saturation pre in the Beginning of your Mastering Chain and Slate or Krammer or Reel Bus or Flywheel or Mag at the End of your Chain before your Limiter / Maximizer
@@morenazo6412 dont frustrate analog fanboy
@@yakshrajsingh8121
I bet you are using your digital saturation plugin to try to bring back that analog warmth, aren't you?
@@morenazo6412 I hear what you’re talking about the high end did round off a lot smoother but this can also be created with a small roll off the high end using an EQ. I bet then you wouldn’t hear any difference at all
I went through a phase when I was mixing everything to an Otari 1/2 track. Those recordings definitely sound different than ITB recordings, better, imo. But everything was going through a board and most of the channels had compressors on inserts.
I found this video while contemplating hooking up the Otari again and using it just as you demoed. Thanks for the video... I think I will give that a whirl. BTW, we have the same RME Fireface UFX and it's still chugging along after 10 years in the rack.
You should be proud of your student. Catchy little tune! I don't know if anyone else has suggested this, but it would be cool to see a frequency analyzer to see what specific frequencies the deck and plugin are boosting and cutting. Very cool video!
After reading some of the comments I would like to add as well that those higher frequencies can be retained with different bias tape material. It all depends on the effect you are shooting for. I have done similar with a 3 head cassette deck... some may sneeze at it and say it is not relevant quality, but I beg to differ. And, depending on the tape bias you use you can amplify different EQ qualities to the final mix. TDK type II was one of my favorites for the full EQ range. Another thing that can be achieved (even with cassette 3 head) is to individually bounce each track or stereo pair if panned, to add individual character to each track... ie different levels of tape compression. Nice to see someone else using it as a insert/plugin.
Nice work.
The truth: the plug-in sounds like a plug-in 🤗
What surprises me is that 3d quality. I read some where that TEACs had a +3 db around 80 hz, and I think that could be fixed, but again, that 3d quality is really surprising. Also, love the wow in the cymbals.
Here's a valuable tip from Bob Olhsson, who was involved in the development of the Waves Kramer Tape plugin. With this particular plugin, if you turn the input down to absolute minimum, adjusting the output level up to compensate and feed the plugin input with -18dB or even -20dB max it will respond more closely to a real tape machine. I have a restored Revox A77 half track machine and they sound very close. Hardly worth messing around threading tapes and time aligning. Great video btw.
Good to know.
To me there is a subtle thing which i call "it arrives in my Emotions". I often struggle with plug ins and also generally with
Pure Dijgital Recordings because i dont feel them arriving in my emotions anymore.
Versus Real Audio Machines and Tubes and amps are making it feelable inside of me!
The cool thing about it someone could tell you the digital recording is actually tape, a d it arrives in your emotions again!
AMAZING WORK !
The rtr warms up the sound but rolls off the highs a bit. The plug-in keeps the highs brighter but is a bit harsher overall. A tape deck's sound depends on a lot of factors, two of the biggest being its specifications and how well it has been maintained. That rtr sounded like itself, which isn't a bad thing, and typically analog.
I don't know why there's so much hate on the music, but then I like Mack Stevens and Elvis Costello, so there you go. Your friend sounds pretty good. Different strokes for different folks.
I know this is old now but you need to mix with the tape in mind. The real reel, how nice!
I liked the plugin the best. Cleaner, louder and warmer. Very aggressive sounding.
Real tape bro, the vocals sounded natural and relaxed as opposed to the brightness of the plug-in. It sounded like CDs did at the very beginning n
Reel-to-Reel Tape Machine is more pleasing to the ear. Seems like a great way to breath some analog life into the DAW
Thanks for doing this. Nice song also.
A woodworker and a pro-audio nerd, just like me! I've subscribed! Although I sold most of my gear at this point.
Tape was wide and rich but I liked the plugin for clarity. I would seek out a combination of these two effects if possible (which is not in this case since you would just get phasing issues). But thank you for this well done demonstration and comparison.
How much I really do like you....such strong passion
Hola, tengo una grabadora AKAI 1722L y necesito saber si puedo grabar a 4 canales o solo 2?
I don´t think I´m able to route the audio from photoshop what plugin is that? is there a difference in harmonics when using photoshop cc vs the analog quality of a purchased installed copy? wil I get more harmonics in disk hdd tather than ssd? that would make my recordings more vintage correct?
You have to pay for the full Creative Cloud to get audio routing options in Photoshop. Also I have found it didn't matter between hdd or ssd as long as they were shipped UPS. Fedex just has a harsher top end that isn't pleasant or natural...
@@MerwinMusic classic
excellent and beyond
This is actually a tough one for me. Truthfully, I like the tape plug in the best. The bass is definitely boomier on the real tape, but it seems to be lacking a little more high end that the tape plug in gives you. The actual original mixdown sounds like it doesn't have much life to it. The slight lack of high end on the tape could just be that it was recorded at 7.5 ips. I think the tape plug in is a good trade off. Thank you for sharing. Nice song.
all you have to is add bit of eq but yea going 15ips would keep the highs more intact.
I personally agree. When I get back to my studio I plan to listen again. I appreciate the effort MerwinMusic put in and for sharing
At 7.5 you will get a very big bass bump and a small one at 15 ips. 7.5 was really more for broadcasting and voice, it never was ment for professional recording.
Depends on how good the tape deck is to factory new. Are the heads worn, wow and flutter high, heads out of alignment, etc.
I feel like a blend of both of these would be best in a mix
The show begins at 5:31 A tube tape machine really add a different texture in the sound or an Ampex/Scully reel to reel spinning fast Thanx
Rtr Sounds like a very boomy yet warm sounding early stones record
Could you provide the test files? Sometimes the details are hard to discern through the TH-cam audio rate compression.
Hey man, excellent video! I just got the same reel to reel and had 2 questions. 1) when connecting your audio interface in / outs (which are 1/4”) to the machine (RCA) do you use dedicated 1/4” TS to RCA cables, converters, or what? 2) when I hit play on the machine there in an audible whirring noise coming from behind the left reel- it may not be present on the actual recording but is unnerving. Yours appears dead silent in this vid- is that the case? Thank you so much if and when you see this!!
I used a pair of Hosa RCA to 1/4" cables. You could use just a RCA to 1/4" adapter, or make your own cables.
There shouldn't be too much noise coming from the machine besides what sounds like fan noise. I would guess that either is wrong or it needs oil. It says that it needs oil once a year, so if that hasn't been done in a while that could be it.
MerwinMusic thank you! I’m going to get on that oiling - and 1/4” TS since each is mono right? (I haven’t been convinced in the TS/TRS difference for short cable runs though) ... looking forward to more of your vids 🤟🏽
wow, I wonder what was the plugin made for...
When you run through a real tape machine, how do you adjust for the latency? Do you have to line it up in your Daw?
Usually I just nudge it back a little to get it in line with the original. It's easy to see if you zoom in and look for some kind of big peak.
It's difficult to separate the experience of using a thing from our perception of how it sounds. And to me, that's the biggest selling point of vintage audio equipment. It provides an experience that you just can't have with a plugin. And the experience can inspire us in ways that plugins can't.
So in that regard, whether or not a plugin sounds just like the real thing or not misses the point for most of us.
Plugins are REALLY good today. There are great engineers working entirely in the box now who are proving that an ITB workflow isn't an obstacle to a top-notch professional recording anymore. We'd all do ourselves a lot of favors, especially those of us with limited-to-no experience with vintage outboard equipment, if we stopped endlessly debating real vs. emulation. I'm not satisfied that in terms of sound, the difference is significant enough to matter any more. It's having the experience that really matters.
Real Tape adds warm, fatness , depth , clarity and stereo width while keeping the overall sounding true to the original mixdown. Plug in squish the mixdown , less depth , less clarity. Btw, very well made video ! Thanks !
I could't agree more.
you should've switched the tape plugin to 7.5 ips though...
I really love to mix modern and vintage sounds ! And I just adore the sound of those old reel-to-reel analog tape decks ! Mixing analog and digital in novel ways, that's where new, great sounding musical movements are born !!! Keep on ! ❤❤❤
Reel tape sounds the best
Crazy, I actually ended up liking the damn song lol. Shit was groovy
OK, I just hooked up my Otari and did an A-B with Cakewalk's built in tape emulation. I'm sure everybody has a favorite.
My impression is that the Otari sounds different than the plugin. It is by inspection a better analog model. Is it THAT much better? Not in the hassle/improvement metric, IMO. It's cool, and it does sound gluey, but you don't need it to make good mixes. Use the plug, save yourself the tape head maintenance, cost of tape, and space in your room. TBH, I think I get a much more analog sound by running the mix through a Chameleon Labs 7720.
massive difference
Theres better tonal compression and softening of highs on the reel thing! Loved the tape way better, it was easier and pleasant to my ears. The digital had very little tonal compression, it was too clear and harsh. The mix on the digital was all over the place, whereas the tape was very even and uniform.
It's usually what the plugins does, impressive nevertheless.
Next time make sure the plugins's reduced to maintain original loudness
I cant say for sure because I'm not listening on studio speakers. the thing I definitely heard that wouldn't change when in the studio is the dynamic range on the tape was amplified... it was nice but accented where the mix needed t possibly be a bit more controlled. also to reiterate what others have said, a low end boost and high roll off in the tape was very noticeable. In conclusion i think in this instance I liked the plugin a bit more because the real tape did accent that dynamic issue within the mix a little too much and that for me made some things a little bit more blurry, such as the vocals and bass. However, if the mix was a bit more controlled and possibly more clean I think I would prefer the real tape.
What is the model of
the machine?
What happened to the Low end with the plug-in? Real tape all the way.
There is a blend, glue, it's like some kind of EQ over the 10 to 12 k -3db or something, with a good compressor at the same time, drum sound better, voice, and guitar, like smooth, blend, all glued. The only problem i see is that you must be used to the changes, to avoid having a opaque sound in the end, that would be i guess the sweet spot to find, avoid having a vintage sound even using vintage equipment, like Queen recordings you know, they sound not vintage even when they have recorder so long ago, achieving that goal would be great, and i think that could be due to an amazing treatment of frequency space for each element, and i don't know if belnding in the end is the best thing to do, the easiest ok, but if you think it the best records have been recorder track by track on tape, and then glued, that must have some effect, having an AB of that type over one song only would be great discovery.
thank you, it's amazing to see this, as one think can go from plugin to real one, taking this video as an example, certainly it's a great starting point to arrive there when you can't use a tape machine
At the same time it would be great if you can try against a tape machine project that supossedly developed a very aprox to real reel, to see if there is some magic on that, in fact you could put your real reel recording against several plugins including this one, to have an amazing video of reel to plugins comparison, not excluding the one i send you below, the other from senderspike, and the one from AirWindows (ToTape6) all of them FREE ones
thanks a lot!
CHOW TAPE (Emulating Sony TC 260)
github.com/jatinchowdhury18/AnalogTapeModel
th-cam.com/video/SxzxEU7iJ3Y/w-d-xo.html
SENDERSPIKE TAPE
th-cam.com/video/xHEDhA5q5o8/w-d-xo.html
AirWindows ToTape6
th-cam.com/video/D10Oq6SGOmY/w-d-xo.html
Certainly it will not be near the same, also because at that monster, you throw anything and the resukt is good without customization i guess, but just to see, initially i think AirWindows is the only one that will be "near" in an easy way, but i'm not sure
thanks a lot
At 4:04. That’s amazingly compressed dynamic range, loudness level 10 it looks like. Am I wrong?
Hi-Fi VHS decks, used for audio only, but at their highest video magnetic tape speed, and with full tape width, provide uncanny audio recording, too !
Hi-Fi VHS decks don’t work at all like audio tape decks, though both formats are pure analog. HI-Fi VHS encodes audio exactly like a FM radio transmitter, with the two channels frequency modulating a very high frequency carrier which is easily recorded onto the VHS format tape. Since video tape is helically scanned, the tape speed makes no difference. The VHS player demodulates the signal just like an FM radio does, but rather than rejecting all the interference from over the air broadcast signals, the VHS Hi-Fi system instead can reject wow and flutter, tape hiss and frequency response anomalies. An ingenious, great sounding system with specs approaching CD quality but without that “digititis” to the sound. I was using HI-Fi VHS to mix down way back in the 80’s.
i think the signal into the tape should be slightly less hot, cause you lose too much top, and itțs a bit oversaturated. but it's an excellent comparison!
hi some of the soundcraft 760 ( i have some) they have edac plugs so if you don't have the skill set keep away i made my looms
be ware was not easy keep away from studiospares low cost loom cables
love the bigger reel to reel prices are now silly i have a teac 44 and teac 80-8 as well have the same as you as well
m-audio adat pipe and the adat decks
Highs a little low on the real tape. Demagnetize the heads?
Yeah I probably need to. I have a demagnetizer but it is still in its package...
You could also push the highs on recording and then dull them after. Helps keep it clear and keeps the noise down.
Alignment check/tweak as well
Listening on Mac Monitor speakers at the moment, and the real tape actually sounds pretty bad.
It goes from sounding normal to sounding like it's playing through a speaker at the end of a long tube.
Ultimately I think you either need to set up your tape machine to be flatter, or it would simply be a matter to mixing the song for what you have: real tape, plugin, or no tape.
You didn't dial in the Kramer Plugin at all. While you do get better highs, the plugin lacked the warmth that the tape has. This can be done by that plugin by ramping up the flux. That's its function. Then you would have the added brightness and the warmth of the low end. Switching the bias or the tape speed also changes how it sounds. Every song will need a different set of variables to make it sound the best it can, closest to a tape master. Y'gotta dial in the tone and you didn't do that, or at least you never showed how to and what it was capable of doing which makes the test lack true comparison. I mean you did set the controls on the tape deck to get what you thought was the best sound...
He didn't bother to level match the original mix down vs the tape versions either, lol.
Neat
Edit: reel-to-reel > tape plugin > original
Real tape sounds excellent!!!!!
What song album is this?
Is the Reel reusable?
I appreciate this video because it's nice to hear what real tape sounds like... But the plugin should have been 7.5 inches AND the flux should have been left at the default of 185 or better yet, even 250. I think if you had used those settings and driven just a little harder into Kramer Master Tape you would have gotten more similar results. Also, I'm not sure if you can do this in Cubase -- but anyone running Kramer Master Tape in Reaper should enable 2x oversampling in the DAW. That, too, will help get closer to the real tape.
Anyhow, nice video... and nice tape machine!!!
Literally sounds like its going from 2D to 3D
it's close but to my ears there is too much top end loss on the hardware r2r. As someone mentioned, adding a bit more top before printing to tape could help. Overall I prefer the plugin.
This is a great video,but It should be said in all fairness that the the machine you are using ,the Teac A-4300 is not intended for mastering , it's just a consumer unit with only 1. 3/4 or 1.7/8. ips speed. Of the Teac line the A-6100 , A-6100 mk11 and A-3300sx are the " master recorders " with speeds of up to 15 ips ,and still these are not your Pro-Master decks. Teac has Tascam ,their Pro -Line.
Now I can guarantee to those that can hardly hear a difference that if this test was done say in a Studer A-80 or A-807 with speeds up to 30 ips there would be no argument.
Still , this is a great experiment that can shed some light on those looking for that elusive analogue sound.
8:27 Why are the reels running in reverse??
This player has reverse play. Rather than having to take the reels off and flip them over you can play backwards for side 2 and put it back on the original reel.
COOL EXPERIMENT ! VERY INTERESTING TO HEAR, AFTER 20 YRS AWAY FROM TAPE. I USED TO ENGINEER IN A MULTI MILLION DOLLAR TAPE STUDIO ! (2 INCH TAPE) I STILL THINK TAPE IS FATTER. (2 INCH TAPE) THAT IS. MAYBE SMOOTHER TOO !
If I was the producer I would suggest adverting from the high hat and use the ride . The real tape helps the mix so much and is the better out of the three IMO . The plug in just makes the low end more prevalent and the OG mix is too bright and lacking . High quality tape is and will always be the best sound medium . Digital is good but Analog will always be best IMO .
Reel to Reel no question. It made the sound huge. Plugin made a big difference. But not even close and good sound as the Reel.
Nice. The real tape sounds more real. Shocking. I’m sure you could finesse the plug-in and get it a little more.. what’s the word… spooky. Lol. I know that’s not the word but you can feel a ghostly aspect to his vocal and the mids in general seem to take to the saturation. It’s easy to dismiss it as placebo but when you close your eyes and just enjoy the song, it’s the real tape that is most convincingly retro. And spooky.
Fun song.
the plugin sounds better but I think the tape just doesnt sound good because the mix down is lacking high frequency content
The real tape adds warmth, the stereo spread widens, and it 'feels' like music.
The problem is waves Kramer tape is maybe the absolute worst tape emulation ever made.
comparison at 5:29
Use the real one, but just re-EQ it.
Ok cue the tape puns. 😁
what hppened at 5:32/8:42.? i heard the punch in. 👈👦👺👀👀👍
"wiring diagram" why not..... a normalized patchbay?
patchbays be expensive doh
They are insignificant changes
Hei Luke. This is a very interesting video. I got a tape machine myself and would really like to set it up but i think i need a little help. Would you mind to help me with the setup? That would be really nice of you. I wrote you a message on Facebook. Kind regards Rico
Feed the tape audio through the tape vst to add back some highs while maintaining the warble from the analog tape.
[NOTE: this is not a criticism of the songs used here] to everyone out there; create compelling music and it won't matter how you record it or what you record it on... but it's all about THE SONGS! you can record it on a quarter-million dollars of primo vintage gear and nobody will care if they don't love your songs... conversely, if your songs connect with people they'll love 'em if you record 'em using GarageBand and an iMac... don't let that one get by you; IT'S _ALL_ ABOUT *THE SONGS!* got that? repeat after me, *"IT'S. ALL. ABOUT. *THE SONGS!"*
agreed.
At the same time, though, if you don't like it, it's just not going to feel right.
@@featheryfemme if you're recording a song, and you think the only thing keeping it from going to the next level is a vintage tape recorder, then... i'll wager your song ain't worth a bowl of rice... 🙄
@@o.b.v.i.u.s Ah, you're one of those people. I don't feel it's worth my time to try and explain what I mean.
@@featheryfemme ...and yet you took the time to say it wasn't worth your time. ❓❓❓
Real tape will always sound best
real reel tape will always sound best
I think fab Saturn2 is a more way better choice for this test
Tape plugin sounds more like "in the box"... while real tape sounds a bit airy
The real machine the reel to reel was more warm more earth more analogue more nice more mojo ..more eh .. more .. just messing there was a subtle difference
The plugin is to clean and leas rugged and raw. Id say eff the plug in
Am I the only one who thinks the plug in sounds pretty good? Was expecting a much bigger difference.. but I do agree the tape machine sounds better
I can’t tell the difference on my phone
You look a bit like Seth Rogen
Came here expecting to like the plugin better but dang, I preferred the real tape bounce.
Nice tape machine 👍 And... gotta love RME. I have 800 & 802, love ‘em. Also... many tape machines, I think I’ll use them more now from watching your video. Thanks.
The Tape Definately Added The "FAT", "Warmth", And- "Saturation" !, The difference is Just like listening to a Type 1 Tape cassette, And A type 2 Tape cassette. I prefer Type 1 myself. I am not Against Plugins, I Use Them. But Dam, Give a Little Headroom, Pump that Signal into a tape, and Boost it back up With a Little EQ, And Compression, And Then, Make Your Daddy Happy ;)
Ugh. Compression. The most abused concept ever. Anybody still know what dynamic range is?
Try Taipei by London Acoustics, I think you'll be stunned! 30 day free trial available!
I can tell the difference in the reverb tape delay.
Would be much easier to provide a good review if levels were coherent. The original mix sounds dull, mainly because the other mixes come out louder. But overall, the plugin is a plug in, digital trickery based on algorithms, while the tape will always provide random results depending on the mechanical condition of the machine and the medium used (not mentioned). Also, the tape loop will always present a chance to add noise to the signal, first because of the nature of analog recording, and second because the signal is unbalanced, therefore prone to interference.
I did my first 4 tracks recording in 1974, and presently using an RME UFX as an interface and my main preamp for my studio. Recently refurbished an A-3340S for a similar purpose. Would have been nice to compare what tape saturation would have resulted in. And compare Ampex 206 to 456, Racal Zonal or Maxell. Anyhow, thanks for the demo, next time add RME Totalizer on the side as a reference.
Tape sounds more alive. Plugin sounds sterile. But actually you should record on the tape and then play back on the tape and not just bounce through the heads. There's a subtle level of flutter which provides a vibrato which makes it sound more alive. Rather than digital as are most of my recordings th-cam.com/video/rfqhL7UaB3Y/w-d-xo.html is on tape and on long notes you can hear a very subtle pitch change giving it an ethereal quality that's alive.