It sort of seems like for this video they regressed to their mental state from 2 years ago when all cards were terrible except the most hyper efficient ones.
@@Malverde888Yup, that's also why I didn't really like watching their content for a while because every card except cEDH level card are duds. I mean, boy, Vorinclex VoH is totally insane. Brash Taunter is not easy to remove. I mean if people have to use their sacrifice-removals for my Brash Taunter than it can't be used against my better cards or my commander.
@@Malverde888 They never had that mindset to begin with. They were “radical” in their “high power casual” position. Which was just dumb, because they tried to force this image of “good and bad” cards, while saying what they are not considering CEDH.
@@ThaMobstarr No. Their judgement is not on point of CEDH still. They are trying to be “in between” casual and competitive, which just makes them to look like a clown in both cases. For example. Toski is a good card in almost any green-creature oriented strategy in CEDH. You can literally find him in dexklist database in a lot of green stax builds. Yet, those guys think differently
I think they are very pod dependent, facebreaker SUFFERS in creatures metas in non-treasure decks, and black market forcing you to pay life gets a lot worse in aggro metas
The trick for getting value out of Windborn Muse is in playing with stoners who will spend all their mana in main 1, go to attack, and then be unable to attack you because they forgot about the Muse
Wild hot takes. Black market and professional facebreaker are amazing cards. Always happy to see black market. Ramp and card draw all in 1. A small amount of life gain takes care of any downside.
it's pretty good in Yuriko. it's a little hard to be playing it on turn 3 instead of something else, tho. that deck is always starving for mana, and getting shape shifters is always good.
I run BMC in Syr Gwyn, Lathril, Korvold, Sliver, & Marneus Calgar. It is only an underperformer if you allow it to be. 3 instances of some type of advantage in turn 3 is very capable of warping the landscape of the game.
I have it in my Ivy deck since i can copy it, have it in my Trelasarra since it protects something and gains me life and have it in my Vorinclex, monstrous Raider deck to protect him since obviously will get hated on. Its also targeting a permanent so you can protect anything on your board.
I've found that it's one of the best cards of its type for something like Jinnie Fay. I NEED cheap ways to protect my commander in order to actually make the cat and dog tokens that will win me the game!
Every card ever can be "pretty good" is some pod or deck. Duh. But these cards are consistently _worse_ across multple ones than you'd think is the point of the video.
I use pro face breaker in my treasure deck. It def not overrated in my opinion, it makes not only a decent supply of treasure but also gives them a additonal use. It has saved me multiple times when I have to dig for anwswers.
I have it in a Ludevic/Sidar partner deck which the entire theme is "2 Power or less tribal" and it works pretty well. Nothing crazy or game changing but it's always nice to be making treasures with a decent creature, but it works better in the deck since Sidar basically makes every one of my creatures unblockable.
Just won a game two nights ago thanks to the treasure token that was created by my facebreaker, allowing me to cast moraug and clench a win with three combat phases (:
How can they even compare Safekeeping with one of the best protection spells in the game which is Heroic Intervention. It's just holding up one damn mana. I feel like these guys are so used to play cEDH that they are only used to tons of fast mana and those free spells.
I like black blade in a 5 color Sisay deck, its really easy to tutor up and when it's equipped Sisays power is almost always big enough to tutor up any legend in your deck.
Playing Tamiyo's Safekeeping in Ivy has been essential. I've used it to great benefit every game I've managed to draw it. If you know your commander is going to be hated off the table by everyone, it's really nice.
Wow, you are so right about the background looking so much better when it's a little darker! Long time listener first time caller.... but I just want to say, great job with all you do!
Brash taunter is decently viable in my Gishath Dino deck, as it’s a good way to trigger enrage effects on my Dino’s on my turn rather than waiting for combat. Not amazing at all but increases value of other cards
I think tamiyo safekeeping is very good card aside budget, and depends on your deck. If you're going wide deck yes you want heroic for sure, but sometime you want to protect that one key permanent that wins you the game like some of anthem or protecting your commander. Black market is just amazing, and I think the changeling part is very good either it's a tribal or non tribal deck, but very good in tribal because having a additional body that's all tribal is just beneficial and yes you lose a lot of life but it's black so you have some sort of lifelink. Adriana is a good creature if you use her as a finisher because you need other creature to attack so you don't have to play her without creatures that's ready to attack, yes the skyforce is better since it's cheaper and easier to cast I do have it in my Isshin but it has the downside you need your commander to give your creatures melee
Damn, I just noticed this. That kinda sucks. I find it still a great way to buff up the small non-myriad tokens on my board. +3/+3 is a crazy pump effect in my Neyali deck that wants to spread damage anyway for the impulse draw.
The whole premise of dies to removal is crazy. I have never seen Toski not provide card advantage. My group all plays at 7-8 PL and Toski is a value engine. Orhan is so much easier to remove and costs more. We had a conversation about which was better and it was pretty unanimous Toski>Orhan FF. I do play both in my Animar combustion deck. Vorinclex underperforms! It’s one of the saltiest cards in the format. Not sure why you would even complain about CMC in green. BMC is a fantastic card. Mine currently has no home but it is a strictly better PA. As much as you down PA it astounding that in a shuffle scuffle someone drew like 10 cards off it against you both.
It isn't a dies to removal argument. It that it dies more often than expected. When we rated it back when Kaldheim released. I also think liking Toski more than Frostfang is a fine take as well. :)
If you’re commander deck can’t put out a consistently good defense in the mid game then ghostly prison is a fantastic card. Especially in artifact or enchantment heavy decks because it can get rid of targeted removal for your important cards
I like how you said mid game. That's what I love about EDH there is experience levels for all different phases and types of decks. You can only build better decks by getting more game play and getting a visual of what might happen
I run that and propaganda in my gates deck. Giving you that one turn when someone wants to swing and not waste mana attacking you and they swing at someone else can be the 1 turn you need to get your 10th gate out
I am pretty high on cards like witness protection and Darksteel Mutation (along with Kenrith's transformation, song of the dryads, and imprisoned in the moon). Both of them can get you out of a jam where a commander is dominating the board, while avoiding death triggers. Great against things like denying card draw for Toothy. Sometimes you can even force your opponent to use removal just to get the commander back to the command zone, at which point it becomes a 2-for-1. Witness protection is probably the worst of all of these, but I still think it's a very playable card.
Song of the Dryads and Imprisoned in the Moon are in a class of their own. The key is the commander is no longer a creature and can't be sac'ed. This is backbreaking against any deck without white/green. The rest of those are good options if you really want your removal on permanents but I'd run other options if not. I run things like Grasp of Fate, Imprisoned, and Detention Sphere in my Alela deck A: because they trigger Alela, and B: they're good targets for Zur (in the 99) when I need removal.
@@dirtyfrench2926 Not just sac prevention, but keeping them from making a deal to get it killed/removed in a favorable block with another opponent. Darksteel mutation is right behind the land ones because it's the 2nd most sticky. Imprisoned in the Moon et.al. are really so great because they're taking advantage of the absence of land destruction. I run something like scavenging grounds *just* for that reason alone. 😅
@@dirtyfrench2926 totally agree (and with @elsporko who notes that Kenrith's and Witness can both be killed with combat). The land ones are the best, then Darksteel. Kenrith is good because it's a cantrip, and witness is the bottom of the ladder. That said, negating abilities before removal is really significant sometimes. I'll run it over something like Pongify if I have synergy. Stuff like Imprisoned and Detention Sphere and O-Ring can be worse because board wipes will often bring their commander back, which usually doesn't happen with witness/Kenrith/etc. But they are still playable with the right synergy, as you note. I have a pretty gross Abdel Adrian deck that packs a dozen effects like that and uses them either as removal or to set up infinite ETB cycles.
Professional face breaker has been performing really well in my Maelstrom wanderer deck. With Ragavan, Goldspan Dragon, Ancient Copper Dragon, Old Gnawbone and Rain of Riches it generates a good amount of mana but late game when I am flooded with treasures I can draw and play a TON of cards.
after reading all the cards mentioned i hope you've got Hellkite Tyrant. not only is it nice to have alternate win cons, stealing a grip artifacts from a salty opponent is tremendous.
Black market connections never disappoints. Even if you get it late game it is generating 3/2's that are every creature type in addition to card draw and mana advantage.
This one was interesting to me. I think it must just be meta-dependent, because I almost always have a nice target for Narset's Reversal in my group. And as the nerds say, we are mostly a slightly higher power group, but not cedh.
@Lrac Seroom I guess what I should have said was it is only worth adding to your deck if copying your own spells is it's primary function, and you treat any counterspell effect it could provide as a flex option. The card's versatility falls short if you don't plan to use it on your own spells.
@Thomas Eddy That sounds like a meta call to me. If everyone in your pod plays green fetch spells then I guess it can count as ramp. But if their whole turn is spending 2 mana to get a land, then it sounds like you didn't do anything on your turn either except pass with presumably the only 2 mana you had.
Black Market Connections definitely needs some build around. I added it to my Willowdusk, Essence Seer deck and its fantastic! Life gain and loss, best of both worlds
Toski and Face-Breaker were a surprise for me Every time I have then in play it was great. I agree that the Frostfang is stronger than Toski but both are insane in go wild decks Face-Breaker is the samething for me, it's amazing in go wild Red decks Maybe I'm always happy with this cards cuz I have a Naya Token decks and all this cards are great in there. Cursed Mirror is amazing in Henzie and can be use to combo in Godo but I agree that's a niche card
In any green deck that needs the commander to stick, tamiyo’s safekeeping does solid work. Voltron Wilson. Arcades the strategist. Grothama. Garth one eye. If you care about the commander more than the board state, safekeeping is a house.
Toski being an underperformed blows my mind. You can just jam them in any deck, but in any go wide strat it is usually the best card in the deck (because it’s all the cards in your deck when you draw 10 a turn)
We never said the card stinks. We said it underperformed expectations. I think Toski is a good card I just feel it to be the auto inclde stable I once thought it to be.
@@NitpickingNerds But why you think its just stricte worst frostfang? Toski cost 1 less (4 mana vs. 5 mana in Commnader its a big deal), and its indestructible. The 2nd part indestructible is so impotent here. You alwasy evaluate cards based on their effect immediately after they are played - if card need to "wait" full turn its much worst and most of time not wroth it. So here we have a card that cannot be countered and its indestructible - so a lot of "instant" remuval will not work for it - so its effect its neat "sure" when you play it - that means when you play it in Yours "token" deck its near sure you will DRAW like 10+ cards with it. With Fronstfang ther is much bigger chance some one will answer it on turn You play it. Sure Frostfang give DT - thats great. But still it cost 1 more - if you want DT ther are cheeper ways to do it ;) And for the "DRAW" efect Toski IS better. I think you evalutate this cards rong... Toski is the 1st. effect you want, Frostfang is the 2nd. In my Elves deck i play Toski, and do not play Frosfang.
@@MareczqZglos I for sure did not say that OFF was strictly better than Toski. I do think it is better though. Toski is a good card and is strong. I think it is a good fit for a go wide deck.
Witness protection is commander removal for one mana In a format that doesn't run enough enchantment removal and a colour that can counter that removal. Its totally worth running.
Narset’s is great in a deck that cares about copying spells, where you can use the copy of Narset’s to return the original to your hand, and the copy that the copy makes to return something else to your hand and just kind of spam for value or win.
I have Brash Taunter in my Aegir deck. I think it works there because my game plan is to hit things with tons of damage to draw cards from Aegir, and the Taunter lets me target it with those, draw a card, and redirect the damage elsewhere.
I never have an issue when I have taunter out. 9 times out of 10 nobody ever notices that its out on my side of the board until they try and swing out on me for lethal.
Hmm for me Adriana works amaizing in Isshin. Yes you tap-out - but its generaly aout-effect that gives +6/+6 to all Yours creatre for 5 mana that is still creature next turn that can attack. Its finnishier for that deck - you need to have some tokens alrady in , and You need to have "Isshin" build for Token Build. But in that build its really, really good - I prefer it them the Enchantment that gives +2/+2 (x2 under isshin) in that deck (bigger buff and its a creature).... It won me a lot of games :)
I absolutely love Blackmarket Connections in my monoblack Ayara deck. Cheap ramp and card draw is just lovely, especially if you happen to get BMC on turns 1-3. Same for Professional Face-Breaker, I think mono-red really loves the consistent ramp + card draw, especially if you're running a lot of other Treasure-centric cards like Dockside or going wide in general.
If you have lifegain and you care about the token being a shapeshifter (tribal/party) it's very good. Or token synergy, in Marneus this card draws you 2 extra cards from the treasure and the token entering the battlefield.
@@jdRamza Exactly! Ayara gives me lifegain, card draw for saccing tokens as well as synergy for the shapeshifters, as I do need zombies for my Gravecrawler combos. Does not get much more valuable than that.
will say that Organic Extinction works wonders in my untap centric Urtet, Remnants of Memnarch deck. It doesn't matter if I tap all my myrs to cast it because my myrs untap for combat, or with my inclusion of cards like Halo Fountain or Intruder Alarm, untap in multiple ways
I play Professional Face-Breaker in my Rionya, Fire Dancer deck. Last game I made some hasty copies of it, hit all three opponents and made a bunch of treasures! I’ll admit that’s pretty high end for the card though and it’s not nearly as good in some other decks.
I'm really glad you brought up Organic Extinction. That card is so tempting because you just see it being a total blowout when you have a major advantage on board. That's nice and all but it's too expensive to cast when *you're losing*, when you have not much on board and need to stop someone. And it's critical your board wipes can do that well. When they go both ways and can be cast on offense too (All is Dust is right there at the right cost to do both), that's when you have a true winner.
Yeah, I had it in a vehicles deck for a while and was never actually able to cast it. But it is absolutely filthy in an Urtet deck, since he can untap myr you used to improvise it.
Toski and Blackblade are in my Marisi deck. Toski works well because you're opponents either can't or don't have untapped creatures to block and it ends up being decent card draw with the Goad and good with rebuilding after enough board wipes to help rebuild. Blackblade helps with just getting enough damage and threatening commander damage. Both aren't all stars in the deck but, are reasonable when I've played it at mid low power tables.
You don't care if your opponent has a 3/2 but it's a changeling so it'sgoing to have benefits from any tribal you're running, and a new one can come down every turn. Even if black market connections didn't draw cards and create treasures it would still be amazing.
Smooth brain: Using Narset's Reversal on opponents cards as a twincast + bounce Big brain: Using Narset's Reversal on your own cards to copy them and get them back
I strongly disagree on Phyrexian Arena and BMC. I always have a fair amount of periphery life gain effects in my Krrick and Sheoldred decks where I run both of those enchantments and they easily are the mvps of the games they stick around in. Its alot of value, and to me life is a resource meant to be spent. Keeping up with card draw to me is more important than the life, especially when I’ll likely either get it back or win before I burn myself. I do think the token making part of BMC is my least used mode, 3 life is a bit high for a token.
Have you talked about the blue card 'Public Enemy' I think its funny. But also, someone used it against me and I was forced to attack and lost like 4 creatures that didnt wanna attack. Kinda underrated I think.
Yes from Streets of New Capenna. It's like goad for blue. I tried that card in a match and thr mayhem it causes is brutal. I think players don't see it coming
the last three in the video have always popped off for me at high powered tables, i've copied dockside enough to make the mirror a bomb and black market connections if played on turn 3 can give you amazing turn 6's where you can jump ahead on mana and card adavantage
Melee is a cool concept when it is combined with go wide token effects and cavalcade of calamity effects because you can stack the triggers so that the damage is dealt and then they are pumped up. Not the most efficient, but a fun restriction to try out, though I’m not a fan of running pump spells in the command zone and would rather run a token maker in the command zone with Adriana as a pump spell in the 99
I feel like toski is pretty good. You guys suggest playing Reconnaissance mission and while that can cycle toski has that effect on a creature which can draw you a card. Even if you’re playing him in a mono green stompy deck that usually has just a handful of big creatures, most of them will probably get through with trample or if nobody has chump blockers they are willing to sacrifice, and drawing even 3 cards extra every turn is amazing. Yes frostfrang has an argument for being better than toski but I think most creature decks could probably run both (I play just toski in my Jodah the unifier deck cuz legendary synergies :))
toski never gets thru, and is always tapped when you wish you have a indie 1/1available to block. i've pulled them out of 3 decks. it's pretty much just beast whisperer.
@@Fausto_4841 The thing is to ski doesn't have to get through, your other creatures can. Even if he never hits through thats still one more creature your opponents have to block to deny you a card, chances are they will block your bigger creatures first to take less damage and let him through, or block him to keep their creatures alive and let through others. He's sort of like indestructible green Reconnaissance mission that can draw you a card itself. Frostfrang might be better since it gives evasion, although it costs 1 more mana and isn't indestructible so will die to more board wipes however it won't die to yawgmoth as easily like toski. I think if you want one source of repeatable draw you probably want both but I guess every deck is different
Weirdly enough I’ve won games with black cliff sword. I run it in my obuun landfall deck so that already gives it more power. And all that extra power can help pump the land obuun makes each combat.
Yeah, she has won we some games in my Isshin deck as well. That said, I still plan to drop her for Skyhunter Strike Force once I get my hands on a copy. 3 mana vs 5 is pretty huge.
Black Market Connections is amazing in Marchesa the Black Rose. You need your life nice and low, plus my Black rose deck has a pirate sub-theme, so the token actually does work.
Blackblade Reforged works in Shaniid because it’s also drawing me a card and my creatures all have menace. That’s *just* enough for it to do solid work there
Blackblade Reforged is nuts in my Lathril deck because it wants Voltron my commander and I ramp out lands like crazy. I see it underperform in Voltron decks without significant land ramp however, it’s really that bad.
I'm using Professional Face Breaker in my Xira token/aristocrats deck. It saved my ass and won me games so many times. If you have a token theme in red, you should absolutely run this baby. The menace on her make it so easy to attack all opponents.
Glorious sunrise should have been a 4 mana, because when you reach 5 mana available it does so little improvement, while at 4 those helps are actually just enough. At 3 mana it would require to actually attack in order to be balanced, but a token deck would support it easily. "Trading a token for a card? Nice!" 14:11 Darksteel Mutation synergizes well with Viashino Heretics and high mana creatures: it will deal huge amounts of damage each turn!
I do think Tamiyo's Safekeeping is overplayed, however it is really good in my Ivy deck since that deck cares about targetting creatures and it can usually protect most of my board, cause I usually only have 2 maybe 3 creatures on the battlefield at any time.
I was surprised how many cards I have in decks in this video. I think the decks I have them still make sense it just wasn't as good generally outside of them like you guys are explaining in the video. I have Blackblade Reforged for my Sisay, Weatherlight Captain legend tribal deck, Witness Protection in my Tuvasa Enchantress deck (turning off powerful commanders, especially those without enchantment removal, is SO GOOD imo), and Professional Face-Breaker in my Prosper deck. Appreciate hearing your thoughts on these cards.
I will say organic extinction can have a really nice synergy with Urtet, since you'll get to untap all your myrs before combat. Lets it act like a pseudo affinity for artifacts!
I run Ghostly Prison in a couple decks, specifically some pillow-forty decks, and have always gotten tons of value out of it. If your meta has combat, it does a tremendous amount of work.
I personally use Blackblade in almost all of my decks, reason being because it gives massive power off of a passive source... your land drops. If you hit your land drops every turn you will have a devastating weapon come turn 10. Not to mention if you have a flyer and they don't that's immediate value.
I feel like it's not underwhelming when you pair it with commanders like Xira who have flying and haste off the grip, or Astor Bearer of blades who gives all equipment equip cost 1. Or literally any Artifact lover who auto equips. On its face Blackblade isn't that impressive, but if you pair it with cards and commanders that synergize, then it becomes a monster. The point of commander is to show off how smart you are and how capable you are as a deck builder. Building decks that make "lame cards" into great cmobos is what it's all about.
Brash Taunter is an overperformer in decks that want to do a lot of damage to all creatures. I run it in an Ashling, The Pilgrim deck and between things like Ashling's ability, Blasphemous Act, Chain Reaction and Pyrohemia it is bonkers.
I was debating cutting glorious sunrise, and you kinda settled it for me. I want it to work so bad, but it always feels like it's too overcosted to make up for the versatility.
It's an enchantment. Of course its gonna have a higher cost. because its a permanent. and card draw in green is great. Its on par with most blue enchantments that give card draw. Plus the versatility of a mini-overrun, or lifegain. The point is: you get one of these effects EVERY TURN.
Toski is really good in any deck with Sidar as one of the Commanders. I play it, Ohran, and Dhalsim in my Sidar/Tymna. The whole point of the deck is weenies/flyers for Tymna and layers upon layers of protection for me and my board.
Adriana was my first commander I made a boros go wide human tribal token go wide deck. It plays out similar too the new boros pre con except all humans and soldier tokens Ill never take it apart cause its my first deck haha but I agree she is expensive and an awkward payoff i only play her once I have a board state and use her more as an anthem effect.
I use Ghostly Prison in my enchantress deck. I play 1v1 with my roommate and in that ”meta” it works well. It isn’t too oppressive and can be dealt with, yet it isn’t really the card that warrants destroying so it often stays on the field. The most important thing is that she doesn’t find Ghostly Prison as annoying as more oppressive pillowfort cards. And since I like my pretty pillowforty enchantress deck, I don’t want to test her limits with too many (or any) boardwipes. Plus, I wouldn’t want her to feel like she’d be forced to add excess amount of enchantment breaks to her decks just to find it fun to play against one of my decks. : )
So... Creatures suck because there exists removal. Enchantments suck because there exists removal. Oh, and drawing extra cards each turn sucks because... I got nothing for this one.
gonna have to hard disagree with Black Market Connections. its essentially a very hard to remove 3 mana rock that produces any color that also draws cards AND makes decent bodies that can be sac fodder in black. its fantastic. it even synergizes with tribes
In tribal decks black market connections definitely is worth 30 dollars. If it gets around a single time and i get a zombie in addition to a card and a treasure in my wilhelt deck it already payed off so hard its insane
Nerds: Brash Taunter is cool, but it dies despite being indestructible. Me: Builds entire deck around Taunters so there is always another one. Ok I know having redundant Taunters is not an argument for it performing well, but I think its time we all consider indestructible to mean survives combat (probably) and thats it.
I think brash taunter, BMC, Safekeeping and face breaker are all good cards. Safekeeping has saved my best creature numerous times. Brash can hit people for 10 or over pretty easily and the other 2 just make so much value
what deck are you playing Brash Taunter in where you dont play it and immediately have ways to deal it damage? I genuinely need the Nerds to explain the metric they use to grade these cards as underperformers, because if they're just going off of "this card doesn't qualify as generic goodstuff/high power in its colors" thats a really poor metric to use when giving advice like this.
We explained very clearly what we meant by an underperformer several times: a card has consistently played worse than we thought it would. The entire baseline of this video is how WE thought these cards would play out
I feel like half this list is something that was praised as a Budget Bomb at some point. I was half expecting to see Aerial Extortionist and Combat Calligrapher at some point. Also, every card has a place somewhere. One With Nothing is a key player in my Magar of the Magic Strings deck, for example.
On tamiyo’s safekeeping, in my experience in edh, reanimating things later is better than having to hold up mana every turn to protect them. I prefer having eerie ultimatum instead of heroic intervention in the deck, for example.
I agree with everything but narset's reversal. I've cast narset's reversal on harrow, kodama's reach, etc. It always feels worth it, especially with harrow because of that player's loss of a land.
Hey, I just wanted tie say that even though I disagree with some of your opinions, I love you both and your channel so much! It sucks that people are going after you because they disagree with you on which branded pieces of carboard are better than others, but I really wanted to let you know that I love your honest, sincere opinions, and I hope you never stop being who you are (Also I recently played against the old vorinclex, and I must agree that it was more of a mild annoyance than an actual threat)
Black market connections. For 1 life, you get extra mana. I get it. Having extra mana sucks. For 2 life, you get an extra card. I get it. Drawing extra cards each turn sucks. For 3 life, you get a token creature that meshes really well in any tribal deck. But I get it, having extra creatures sucks.
Somewhere, Josh Lee Kwai just felt a great disturbance in the force :D I think you're making the 1/1 indestructibles worse than they are, on account of Yawgdaddy still costing between 20 and 25$. That being said, Grim Hireling can do the same job and is significantly more budget
I like Toski in any go wide deck or stompy deck where damage is getting through consistently. I struggle with getting enough card draw in my decks and Toski is great for that.
Yea, BMC has huge upsides to various synergies, so I have to disagree on this one. I have it in my Nalia de’Arnise, and it becomes pivotal in forming a ‘party’ for the payoffs. Of course, this card was designed for this type of deck, either way I’ll always pay 2 life to draw a card, at the very least
I think tribal decks are what have made black market connections so popular. Reaper king loves the token, lathril never minds another elf, chatterfang gets a lot of squirrel juice from one trigger etc. there’s also some cool things you can do with life trade like profane transfusion, soul conduit or repay in kind etc.
Yeah disagree heavily on professional facebreaker. It's a borderline auto include for any red deck with a heavy creature density. Turns out a grim hireling side grade is a staple format. Same as Toski, there isn't a single green creature deck I can think of where you don't play him unless you're cedh. The correct answer is play both him and frostfanf
Imma be real this feels like a rare nerds miss to me 🤔 Toski and Professional facebreaker are both absurdly powerful in go wide decks, Toski isn't super difficult to remove but can avoid wipes and a fair chunk of cheap instants. Facebreaker is ramp and card advantage for decks on a 3 cmc body, grim hireling does make more treasure, but the ability to turn the treasure into cards is fantastic. Black market connections fills the same role as professional facebreaker where it ramps and draw, with the extra potential to make bodies as well, and even if you're only using 1 or 2 modes, most black decks can reliably regain life to some extent, and it's a solid B to A where if you're able to regain the life at all it's practically an auto include like staff of compleation. The rest I could get behind, but these feel off the mark to me
I agree that most of these cards aren't great in casual commander, but some of those (BMC, Clix, Cursed Mirror) are great in a lot of competitive decks. I know you all don't talk about that, but I think those cards are great for the Higher end Metas.
I feel like NPN is undervaluing Darksteel mutation. It can shut down commanders EASILY because it’s difficult to remove it from the battlefield without a enchantment removal.
I'm usually pretty on board with you guys, but I could really use the bud you're smoking when you came up with half of these choices.
It sort of seems like for this video they regressed to their mental state from 2 years ago when all cards were terrible except the most hyper efficient ones.
BMC always gets crazy value whenever I play with or against it, wild opinions tbh
@@Malverde888Yup, that's also why I didn't really like watching their content for a while because every card except cEDH level card are duds. I mean, boy, Vorinclex VoH is totally insane. Brash Taunter is not easy to remove. I mean if people have to use their sacrifice-removals for my Brash Taunter than it can't be used against my better cards or my commander.
@@Malverde888
They never had that mindset to begin with.
They were “radical” in their “high power casual” position.
Which was just dumb, because they tried to force this image of “good and bad” cards, while saying what they are not considering CEDH.
@@ThaMobstarr
No. Their judgement is not on point of CEDH still.
They are trying to be “in between” casual and competitive, which just makes them to look like a clown in both cases.
For example.
Toski is a good card in almost any green-creature oriented strategy in CEDH.
You can literally find him in dexklist database in a lot of green stax builds.
Yet, those guys think differently
Facebreaker and Black Market connections are some seriously hot takes
More like straight up bad takes
I think they are very pod dependent, facebreaker SUFFERS in creatures metas in non-treasure decks, and black market forcing you to pay life gets a lot worse in aggro metas
Terrible takes
@@RLKC8 I feel like there are few scenarios where the advantage and ramp given from connections won’t seriously advance your game plan
I think the takes were there to generate views. They knew exactly what they were doing. That's why they put Facebreaker in their thumbnail.
The trick for getting value out of Windborn Muse is in playing with stoners who will spend all their mana in main 1, go to attack, and then be unable to attack you because they forgot about the Muse
Wild hot takes. Black market and professional facebreaker are amazing cards. Always happy to see black market. Ramp and card draw all in 1. A small amount of life gain takes care of any downside.
it's pretty good in Yuriko. it's a little hard to be playing it on turn 3 instead of something else, tho. that deck is always starving for mana, and getting shape shifters is always good.
I especially like it in my Sheoldred, the Apocalypse deck.
Black Market Connections also sees a bit of play in legacy Death's shadow which is why it's so expensive
I agree, I'm never sad to see those in any game.
I run BMC in Syr Gwyn, Lathril, Korvold, Sliver, & Marneus Calgar.
It is only an underperformer if you allow it to be. 3 instances of some type of advantage in turn 3 is very capable of warping the landscape of the game.
Tamiyo safekeeping is solid in decks where you need your commander to do anything.
I run it in my cedh yisan deck, hexproof and indestructible for 1 cannot be overlooked especially in commandercentric decks
Exactly. Show me a viable 1 mana counterspell for Ravenous Chupacabra and I’ll swap my Tamiyo’s Safe Keeping
I have it in my Ivy deck since i can copy it, have it in my Trelasarra since it protects something and gains me life and have it in my Vorinclex, monstrous Raider deck to protect him since obviously will get hated on.
Its also targeting a permanent so you can protect anything on your board.
@@thedanath exactly. Tamiyo’s Safekeeping is a sweet card and always comes through for me. 1 mana is easier to hold up than 2 mana
I've found that it's one of the best cards of its type for something like Jinnie Fay. I NEED cheap ways to protect my commander in order to actually make the cat and dog tokens that will win me the game!
Every card in this list can be pretty good depending on your pod or deck
Good thing it’s their opinion
Yeah, professional Face-Breaker SLAPS in all my exile/treasure decks. Prosper players, rejoice
@@burnsboy101 lol what a useless observation. Thanks, I guess.
Every card can be good depending on your pod or deck.
Every card ever can be "pretty good" is some pod or deck. Duh. But these cards are consistently _worse_ across multple ones than you'd think is the point of the video.
I use pro face breaker in my treasure deck. It def not overrated in my opinion, it makes not only a decent supply of treasure but also gives them a additonal use. It has saved me multiple times when I have to dig for anwswers.
It's in my cedh winota deck but outside of that, idk where else it goes lol
I have it in a Ludevic/Sidar partner deck which the entire theme is "2 Power or less tribal" and it works pretty well. Nothing crazy or game changing but it's always nice to be making treasures with a decent creature, but it works better in the deck since Sidar basically makes every one of my creatures unblockable.
Just won a game two nights ago thanks to the treasure token that was created by my facebreaker, allowing me to cast moraug and clench a win with three combat phases (:
@@nzephier It's fantastic in Prosper, since each spell cast out of exile generates a new treasure.
I run it in Brudiclad, love making copies of creatures that can make tokens each turn that then turn into more copies of that creature.
marvel snap, the game where you get youtube ads where some man yells at you for 2 minutes about how their game is not p2w
Man was Bed Brode probably, old Hearthstone designer
My favorite is where he says you can speed it up but you can't shortcut it. My dude, that's literally what a shortcut is.
Go off!
@@EntheogenShaman thats hilarious 😂
I've never spent a dime and I win half the time. Not bad. Also what TH-cam ads? I've never had an ad play before
honestly i cant get behind tamiyos safekeeping being an unplayable card. It has worked wonders in my decks like Jetmir and Titania Voice of Argoth
How can they even compare Safekeeping with one of the best protection spells in the game which is Heroic Intervention. It's just holding up one damn mana. I feel like these guys are so used to play cEDH that they are only used to tons of fast mana and those free spells.
I like black blade in a 5 color Sisay deck, its really easy to tutor up and when it's equipped Sisays power is almost always big enough to tutor up any legend in your deck.
Playing Tamiyo's Safekeeping in Ivy has been essential. I've used it to great benefit every game I've managed to draw it. If you know your commander is going to be hated off the table by everyone, it's really nice.
Wow, you are so right about the background looking so much better when it's a little darker! Long time listener first time caller.... but I just want to say, great job with all you do!
Brash taunter is decently viable in my Gishath Dino deck, as it’s a good way to trigger enrage effects on my Dino’s on my turn rather than waiting for combat. Not amazing at all but increases value of other cards
Brash Taunter is one of my favorite cards of all time.
@@NitpickingNerds Brash taunter and Star of Extinction/Blasphemous act hnnnn
I think tamiyo safekeeping is very good card aside budget, and depends on your deck. If you're going wide deck yes you want heroic for sure, but sometime you want to protect that one key permanent that wins you the game like some of anthem or protecting your commander. Black market is just amazing, and I think the changeling part is very good either it's a tribal or non tribal deck, but very good in tribal because having a additional body that's all tribal is just beneficial and yes you lose a lot of life but it's black so you have some sort of lifelink. Adriana is a good creature if you use her as a finisher because you need other creature to attack so you don't have to play her without creatures that's ready to attack, yes the skyforce is better since it's cheaper and easier to cast I do have it in my Isshin but it has the downside you need your commander to give your creatures melee
Melee as a mechanic is highly disappointing because it doesn't work with Myriad.
Oh never knew that! Or have I tried that synergy. Good to know
Damn, I just noticed this. That kinda sucks. I find it still a great way to buff up the small non-myriad tokens on my board. +3/+3 is a crazy pump effect in my Neyali deck that wants to spread damage anyway for the impulse draw.
The whole premise of dies to removal is crazy. I have never seen Toski not provide card advantage. My group all plays at 7-8 PL and Toski is a value engine. Orhan is so much easier to remove and costs more. We had a conversation about which was better and it was pretty unanimous Toski>Orhan FF. I do play both in my Animar combustion deck.
Vorinclex underperforms! It’s one of the saltiest cards in the format. Not sure why you would even complain about CMC in green.
BMC is a fantastic card. Mine currently has no home but it is a strictly better PA. As much as you down PA it astounding that in a shuffle scuffle someone drew like 10 cards off it against you both.
It isn't a dies to removal argument. It that it dies more often than expected. When we rated it back when Kaldheim released. I also think liking Toski more than Frostfang is a fine take as well. :)
If you’re commander deck can’t put out a consistently good defense in the mid game then ghostly prison is a fantastic card. Especially in artifact or enchantment heavy decks because it can get rid of targeted removal for your important cards
I like how you said mid game. That's what I love about EDH there is experience levels for all different phases and types of decks. You can only build better decks by getting more game play and getting a visual of what might happen
I run that and propaganda in my gates deck. Giving you that one turn when someone wants to swing and not waste mana attacking you and they swing at someone else can be the 1 turn you need to get your 10th gate out
I am pretty high on cards like witness protection and Darksteel Mutation (along with Kenrith's transformation, song of the dryads, and imprisoned in the moon). Both of them can get you out of a jam where a commander is dominating the board, while avoiding death triggers. Great against things like denying card draw for Toothy.
Sometimes you can even force your opponent to use removal just to get the commander back to the command zone, at which point it becomes a 2-for-1.
Witness protection is probably the worst of all of these, but I still think it's a very playable card.
It'll do if you have no other or better options lol
Song of the Dryads and Imprisoned in the Moon are in a class of their own. The key is the commander is no longer a creature and can't be sac'ed. This is backbreaking against any deck without white/green.
The rest of those are good options if you really want your removal on permanents but I'd run other options if not. I run things like Grasp of Fate, Imprisoned, and Detention Sphere in my Alela deck A: because they trigger Alela, and B: they're good targets for Zur (in the 99) when I need removal.
@@dirtyfrench2926 Not just sac prevention, but keeping them from making a deal to get it killed/removed in a favorable block with another opponent. Darksteel mutation is right behind the land ones because it's the 2nd most sticky.
Imprisoned in the Moon et.al. are really so great because they're taking advantage of the absence of land destruction. I run something like scavenging grounds *just* for that reason alone. 😅
@@dirtyfrench2926 totally agree (and with @elsporko who notes that Kenrith's and Witness can both be killed with combat). The land ones are the best, then Darksteel. Kenrith is good because it's a cantrip, and witness is the bottom of the ladder. That said, negating abilities before removal is really significant sometimes. I'll run it over something like Pongify if I have synergy.
Stuff like Imprisoned and Detention Sphere and O-Ring can be worse because board wipes will often bring their commander back, which usually doesn't happen with witness/Kenrith/etc. But they are still playable with the right synergy, as you note. I have a pretty gross Abdel Adrian deck that packs a dozen effects like that and uses them either as removal or to set up infinite ETB cycles.
I love seeing these awesome and conversations in the comments! :)
Professional face breaker has been performing really well in my Maelstrom wanderer deck. With Ragavan, Goldspan Dragon, Ancient Copper Dragon, Old Gnawbone and Rain of Riches it generates a good amount of mana but late game when I am flooded with treasures I can draw and play a TON of cards.
after reading all the cards mentioned i hope you've got Hellkite Tyrant. not only is it nice to have alternate win cons, stealing a grip artifacts from a salty opponent is tremendous.
I love the image of Ghalta carrying Blackblade-reforged in his mouth like a little toothpick.
I’m only running Black market connections in either an aristocrat deck or in a deck where the changeling matters
Black market connections never disappoints. Even if you get it late game it is generating 3/2's that are every creature type in addition to card draw and mana advantage.
Lol thats why it's a $30 card
@@Commander_Claw I get it... they don't lol
Narset's Reversal only belongs in spellslinger decks where you will want to copy your own spell for a storm effect.
This one was interesting to me. I think it must just be meta-dependent, because I almost always have a nice target for Narset's Reversal in my group. And as the nerds say, we are mostly a slightly higher power group, but not cedh.
Yes!
@Lrac Seroom I guess what I should have said was it is only worth adding to your deck if copying your own spells is it's primary function, and you treat any counterspell effect it could provide as a flex option. The card's versatility falls short if you don't plan to use it on your own spells.
@Thomas Eddy That sounds like a meta call to me. If everyone in your pod plays green fetch spells then I guess it can count as ramp. But if their whole turn is spending 2 mana to get a land, then it sounds like you didn't do anything on your turn either except pass with presumably the only 2 mana you had.
Black Market Connections definitely needs some build around. I added it to my Willowdusk, Essence Seer deck and its fantastic! Life gain and loss, best of both worlds
Toski and Face-Breaker were a surprise for me
Every time I have then in play it was great. I agree that the Frostfang is stronger than Toski but both are insane in go wild decks
Face-Breaker is the samething for me, it's amazing in go wild Red decks
Maybe I'm always happy with this cards cuz I have a Naya Token decks and all this cards are great in there.
Cursed Mirror is amazing in Henzie and can be use to combo in Godo but I agree that's a niche card
In any green deck that needs the commander to stick, tamiyo’s safekeeping does solid work. Voltron Wilson. Arcades the strategist. Grothama. Garth one eye. If you care about the commander more than the board state, safekeeping is a house.
Check out Tyvar's Stand for some redundancy if you like Safekeeping!
Toski being an underperformed blows my mind. You can just jam them in any deck, but in any go wide strat it is usually the best card in the deck (because it’s all the cards in your deck when you draw 10 a turn)
The idea that there’s a better version of a card so a card stinks is nuts
We never said the card stinks. We said it underperformed expectations. I think Toski is a good card I just feel it to be the auto inclde stable I once thought it to be.
@@NitpickingNerds But why you think its just stricte worst frostfang? Toski cost 1 less (4 mana vs. 5 mana in Commnader its a big deal), and its indestructible. The 2nd part indestructible is so impotent here. You alwasy evaluate cards based on their effect immediately after they are played - if card need to "wait" full turn its much worst and most of time not wroth it. So here we have a card that cannot be countered and its indestructible - so a lot of "instant" remuval will not work for it - so its effect its neat "sure" when you play it - that means when you play it in Yours "token" deck its near sure you will DRAW like 10+ cards with it. With Fronstfang ther is much bigger chance some one will answer it on turn You play it.
Sure Frostfang give DT - thats great. But still it cost 1 more - if you want DT ther are cheeper ways to do it ;) And for the "DRAW" efect Toski IS better. I think you evalutate this cards rong...
Toski is the 1st. effect you want, Frostfang is the 2nd.
In my Elves deck i play Toski, and do not play Frosfang.
@@MareczqZglos I for sure did not say that OFF was strictly better than Toski. I do think it is better though. Toski is a good card and is strong. I think it is a good fit for a go wide deck.
Love you guys, but I feel like this video is almost all bad takes. Witness Protection, windborne muse, and Geth are all definitely bad tho.
Witness protection is commander removal for one mana In a format that doesn't run enough enchantment removal and a colour that can counter that removal. Its totally worth running.
You're not going to run it over pongify or rapid hybridization and you don't need a 3rd worse one of those effects.
Narset’s is great in a deck that cares about copying spells, where you can use the copy of Narset’s to return the original to your hand, and the copy that the copy makes to return something else to your hand and just kind of spam for value or win.
I have Brash Taunter in my Aegir deck. I think it works there because my game plan is to hit things with tons of damage to draw cards from Aegir, and the Taunter lets me target it with those, draw a card, and redirect the damage elsewhere.
I have it in my Xira deck and it is great when it lives for sure :)
I never have an issue when I have taunter out. 9 times out of 10 nobody ever notices that its out on my side of the board until they try and swing out on me for lethal.
Toski is a total house and I let out an audible chuckle hearing anything different.
Hmm for me Adriana works amaizing in Isshin. Yes you tap-out - but its generaly aout-effect that gives +6/+6 to all Yours creatre for 5 mana that is still creature next turn that can attack. Its finnishier for that deck - you need to have some tokens alrady in , and You need to have "Isshin" build for Token Build. But in that build its really, really good - I prefer it them the Enchantment that gives +2/+2 (x2 under isshin) in that deck (bigger buff and its a creature).... It won me a lot of games :)
I absolutely love Blackmarket Connections in my monoblack Ayara deck. Cheap ramp and card draw is just lovely, especially if you happen to get BMC on turns 1-3. Same for Professional Face-Breaker, I think mono-red really loves the consistent ramp + card draw, especially if you're running a lot of other Treasure-centric cards like Dockside or going wide in general.
Yeah I do love it in my Braids deck, its mono-B aswell; Maybe it's just good there, but I'll play this card every time. It's just bonkers in my games
If you have lifegain and you care about the token being a shapeshifter (tribal/party) it's very good. Or token synergy, in Marneus this card draws you 2 extra cards from the treasure and the token entering the battlefield.
@@jdRamza Exactly! Ayara gives me lifegain, card draw for saccing tokens as well as synergy for the shapeshifters, as I do need zombies for my Gravecrawler combos. Does not get much more valuable than that.
will say that Organic Extinction works wonders in my untap centric Urtet, Remnants of Memnarch deck. It doesn't matter if I tap all my myrs to cast it because my myrs untap for combat, or with my inclusion of cards like Halo Fountain or Intruder Alarm, untap in multiple ways
I play Professional Face-Breaker in my Rionya, Fire Dancer deck. Last game I made some hasty copies of it, hit all three opponents and made a bunch of treasures! I’ll admit that’s pretty high end for the card though and it’s not nearly as good in some other decks.
Card has a very high ceiling an
d fits in lots of list for sure
Face breaker is great in Tymna decks. You can play your whole deck with infinite treasures too.
Cursed mirror has never been an underperformer for me. more of an overperformer. So much so, that it's almost customary to add it if i'm playing red
I'm really glad you brought up Organic Extinction. That card is so tempting because you just see it being a total blowout when you have a major advantage on board. That's nice and all but it's too expensive to cast when *you're losing*, when you have not much on board and need to stop someone. And it's critical your board wipes can do that well. When they go both ways and can be cast on offense too (All is Dust is right there at the right cost to do both), that's when you have a true winner.
Yeah, I had it in a vehicles deck for a while and was never actually able to cast it. But it is absolutely filthy in an Urtet deck, since he can untap myr you used to improvise it.
i'm surprised anyone was drawn into it in the first place.
Toski and Blackblade are in my Marisi deck. Toski works well because you're opponents either can't or don't have untapped creatures to block and it ends up being decent card draw with the Goad and good with rebuilding after enough board wipes to help rebuild. Blackblade helps with just getting enough damage and threatening commander damage. Both aren't all stars in the deck but, are reasonable when I've played it at mid low power tables.
You don't care if your opponent has a 3/2 but it's a changeling so it'sgoing to have benefits from any tribal you're running, and a new one can come down every turn. Even if black market connections didn't draw cards and create treasures it would still be amazing.
Smooth brain: Using Narset's Reversal on opponents cards as a twincast + bounce
Big brain: Using Narset's Reversal on your own cards to copy them and get them back
I strongly disagree on Phyrexian Arena and BMC. I always have a fair amount of periphery life gain effects in my Krrick and Sheoldred decks where I run both of those enchantments and they easily are the mvps of the games they stick around in. Its alot of value, and to me life is a resource meant to be spent. Keeping up with card draw to me is more important than the life, especially when I’ll likely either get it back or win before I burn myself. I do think the token making part of BMC is my least used mode, 3 life is a bit high for a token.
Have you talked about the blue card 'Public Enemy' I think its funny. But also, someone used it against me and I was forced to attack and lost like 4 creatures that didnt wanna attack. Kinda underrated I think.
Yes from Streets of New Capenna. It's like goad for blue. I tried that card in a match and thr mayhem it causes is brutal. I think players don't see it coming
the last three in the video have always popped off for me at high powered tables, i've copied dockside enough to make the mirror a bomb and black market connections if played on turn 3 can give you amazing turn 6's where you can jump ahead on mana and card adavantage
Melee is a cool concept when it is combined with go wide token effects and cavalcade of calamity effects because you can stack the triggers so that the damage is dealt and then they are pumped up. Not the most efficient, but a fun restriction to try out, though I’m not a fan of running pump spells in the command zone and would rather run a token maker in the command zone with Adriana as a pump spell in the 99
I feel like toski is pretty good. You guys suggest playing Reconnaissance mission and while that can cycle toski has that effect on a creature which can draw you a card. Even if you’re playing him in a mono green stompy deck that usually has just a handful of big creatures, most of them will probably get through with trample or if nobody has chump blockers they are willing to sacrifice, and drawing even 3 cards extra every turn is amazing. Yes frostfrang has an argument for being better than toski but I think most creature decks could probably run both (I play just toski in my Jodah the unifier deck cuz legendary synergies :))
All that being said everyone plays in different metas and has had their unique experiences with a card and are all entitled to their own opinion
toski never gets thru, and is always tapped when you wish you have a indie 1/1available to block. i've pulled them out of 3 decks. it's pretty much just beast whisperer.
@@Fausto_4841 The thing is to ski doesn't have to get through, your other creatures can. Even if he never hits through thats still one more creature your opponents have to block to deny you a card, chances are they will block your bigger creatures first to take less damage and let him through, or block him to keep their creatures alive and let through others. He's sort of like indestructible green Reconnaissance mission that can draw you a card itself. Frostfrang might be better since it gives evasion, although it costs 1 more mana and isn't indestructible so will die to more board wipes however it won't die to yawgmoth as easily like toski. I think if you want one source of repeatable draw you probably want both but I guess every deck is different
Weirdly enough I’ve won games with black cliff sword. I run it in my obuun landfall deck so that already gives it more power. And all that extra power can help pump the land obuun makes each combat.
I like Toski in Rigo, streetwise mentor, which runs a lot of unblockable 1 power creatures so you draw a lot
"An Equipment that strictly ONLY boosts the power and toughness of a creatures is so underwhelming! It shouldn't be anywhere but Voltron!" No shit?
gotta say, Adriana has won some games in my Isshin deck for me, +6/+6 is backbreaking, more power than Fervent Charge for 8 less bucks
Yeah, she has won we some games in my Isshin deck as well. That said, I still plan to drop her for Skyhunter Strike Force once I get my hands on a copy. 3 mana vs 5 is pretty huge.
@@tethler absolutely, i need one too!! and the slots are so optimized i probably will drop her too when i buy the card
Black Market Connections is amazing in Marchesa the Black Rose. You need your life nice and low, plus my Black rose deck has a pirate sub-theme, so the token actually does work.
Blackblade Reforged works in Shaniid because it’s also drawing me a card and my creatures all have menace. That’s *just* enough for it to do solid work there
Blackblade Reforged is nuts in my Lathril deck because it wants Voltron my commander and I ramp out lands like crazy. I see it underperform in Voltron decks without significant land ramp however, it’s really that bad.
I'm using Professional Face Breaker in my Xira token/aristocrats deck. It saved my ass and won me games so many times. If you have a token theme in red, you should absolutely run this baby. The menace on her make it so easy to attack all opponents.
Glorious sunrise should have been a 4 mana, because when you reach 5 mana available it does so little improvement, while at 4 those helps are actually just enough. At 3 mana it would require to actually attack in order to be balanced, but a token deck would support it easily. "Trading a token for a card? Nice!"
14:11 Darksteel Mutation synergizes well with Viashino Heretics and high mana creatures: it will deal huge amounts of damage each turn!
I do think Tamiyo's Safekeeping is overplayed, however it is really good in my Ivy deck since that deck cares about targetting creatures and it can usually protect most of my board, cause I usually only have 2 maybe 3 creatures on the battlefield at any time.
I’m still trying to gage if deep gnome terramancer is any good
Removal and protection are in an arms race.
Removal says destroy, protection says indestructible.
Removal says exile, protection says hexproof.
Removal says sacrifice...
....protection says go wide? XD
I was surprised how many cards I have in decks in this video. I think the decks I have them still make sense it just wasn't as good generally outside of them like you guys are explaining in the video. I have Blackblade Reforged for my Sisay, Weatherlight Captain legend tribal deck, Witness Protection in my Tuvasa Enchantress deck (turning off powerful commanders, especially those without enchantment removal, is SO GOOD imo), and Professional Face-Breaker in my Prosper deck. Appreciate hearing your thoughts on these cards.
Alternate video title: “We dare you to build a deck with these cards and win with it.”
This just us talking about cards we have notice play worse than we thought would. A lot of these cards are good.
I will say organic extinction can have a really nice synergy with Urtet, since you'll get to untap all your myrs before combat. Lets it act like a pseudo affinity for artifacts!
Cursed mirror is bad however I run it in my Brion stoutarm deck where I will copy a creater then throw the copy and I get alright value there
I run Ghostly Prison in a couple decks, specifically some pillow-forty decks, and have always gotten tons of value out of it. If your meta has combat, it does a tremendous amount of work.
I am with you Levi!
100% agree, its so good in decks that want it
I personally use Blackblade in almost all of my decks, reason being because it gives massive power off of a passive source... your land drops. If you hit your land drops every turn you will have a devastating weapon come turn 10. Not to mention if you have a flyer and they don't that's immediate value.
That seems very underwhelming to be honest
I feel like it's not underwhelming when you pair it with commanders like Xira who have flying and haste off the grip, or Astor Bearer of blades who gives all equipment equip cost 1. Or literally any Artifact lover who auto equips. On its face Blackblade isn't that impressive, but if you pair it with cards and commanders that synergize, then it becomes a monster.
The point of commander is to show off how smart you are and how capable you are as a deck builder. Building decks that make "lame cards" into great cmobos is what it's all about.
Brash Taunter is an overperformer in decks that want to do a lot of damage to all creatures. I run it in an Ashling, The Pilgrim deck and between things like Ashling's ability, Blasphemous Act, Chain Reaction and Pyrohemia it is bonkers.
I was debating cutting glorious sunrise, and you kinda settled it for me. I want it to work so bad, but it always feels like it's too overcosted to make up for the versatility.
It's an enchantment. Of course its gonna have a higher cost. because its a permanent. and card draw in green is great. Its on par with most blue enchantments that give card draw. Plus the versatility of a mini-overrun, or lifegain. The point is: you get one of these effects EVERY TURN.
Toski is really good in any deck with Sidar as one of the Commanders. I play it, Ohran, and Dhalsim in my Sidar/Tymna. The whole point of the deck is weenies/flyers for Tymna and layers upon layers of protection for me and my board.
Adriana was my first commander I made a boros go wide human tribal token go wide deck. It plays out similar too the new boros pre con except all humans and soldier tokens Ill never take it apart cause its my first deck haha but I agree she is expensive and an awkward payoff i only play her once I have a board state and use her more as an anthem effect.
I use Ghostly Prison in my enchantress deck. I play 1v1 with my roommate and in that ”meta” it works well. It isn’t too oppressive and can be dealt with, yet it isn’t really the card that warrants destroying so it often stays on the field. The most important thing is that she doesn’t find Ghostly Prison as annoying as more oppressive pillowfort cards.
And since I like my pretty pillowforty enchantress deck, I don’t want to test her limits with too many (or any) boardwipes. Plus, I wouldn’t want her to feel like she’d be forced to add excess amount of enchantment breaks to her decks just to find it fun to play against one of my decks. : )
So... Creatures suck because there exists removal. Enchantments suck because there exists removal. Oh, and drawing extra cards each turn sucks because... I got nothing for this one.
gonna have to hard disagree with Black Market Connections.
its essentially a very hard to remove 3 mana rock that produces any color that also draws cards AND makes decent bodies that can be sac fodder in black. its fantastic.
it even synergizes with tribes
In tribal decks black market connections definitely is worth 30 dollars. If it gets around a single time and i get a zombie in addition to a card and a treasure in my wilhelt deck it already payed off so hard its insane
I find Toski performs extremely well in my Tayam deck, but the uses for it are pretty rare.
And yeah Frostfang just does do its job better.
It also works well in Chatterfang… squirrel go wide sooo.
Toski is incredible in my mutate deck. I’ve been pretty unimpressed with him otherwise however
Nerds: Brash Taunter is cool, but it dies despite being indestructible.
Me: Builds entire deck around Taunters so there is always another one.
Ok I know having redundant Taunters is not an argument for it performing well, but I think its time we all consider indestructible to mean survives combat (probably) and thats it.
Narset reversal really shine in decks where you wanna copy your spells as much as you wanna disrupt the opponent
I think brash taunter, BMC, Safekeeping and face breaker are all good cards. Safekeeping has saved my best creature numerous times. Brash can hit people for 10 or over pretty easily and the other 2 just make so much value
what deck are you playing Brash Taunter in where you dont play it and immediately have ways to deal it damage? I genuinely need the Nerds to explain the metric they use to grade these cards as underperformers, because if they're just going off of "this card doesn't qualify as generic goodstuff/high power in its colors" thats a really poor metric to use when giving advice like this.
We explained very clearly what we meant by an underperformer several times: a card has consistently played worse than we thought it would. The entire baseline of this video is how WE thought these cards would play out
I feel like half this list is something that was praised as a Budget Bomb at some point. I was half expecting to see Aerial Extortionist and Combat Calligrapher at some point.
Also, every card has a place somewhere. One With Nothing is a key player in my Magar of the Magic Strings deck, for example.
same. didn't they just sing the praises of brash taunter like, last week?
Cards will 100% perform differently with different budgetary restrictions though
Hard disagree on Black Market Connections, rest of takes are reasonable
Well you are wrong lol jk! I support you opinion :)
On tamiyo’s safekeeping, in my experience in edh, reanimating things later is better than having to hold up mana every turn to protect them. I prefer having eerie ultimatum instead of heroic intervention in the deck, for example.
I agree with everything but narset's reversal. I've cast narset's reversal on harrow, kodama's reach, etc. It always feels worth it, especially with harrow because of that player's loss of a land.
Hey, I just wanted tie say that even though I disagree with some of your opinions, I love you both and your channel so much! It sucks that people are going after you because they disagree with you on which branded pieces of carboard are better than others, but I really wanted to let you know that I love your honest, sincere opinions, and I hope you never stop being who you are
(Also I recently played against the old vorinclex, and I must agree that it was more of a mild annoyance than an actual threat)
Black market connections.
For 1 life, you get extra mana. I get it. Having extra mana sucks.
For 2 life, you get an extra card. I get it. Drawing extra cards each turn sucks.
For 3 life, you get a token creature that meshes really well in any tribal deck. But I get it, having extra creatures sucks.
Somewhere, Josh Lee Kwai just felt a great disturbance in the force :D I think you're making the 1/1 indestructibles worse than they are, on account of Yawgdaddy still costing between 20 and 25$. That being said, Grim Hireling can do the same job and is significantly more budget
I like Toski in any go wide deck or stompy deck where damage is getting through consistently. I struggle with getting enough card draw in my decks and Toski is great for that.
I’m opposite you guys on Face Breaker/Hierling. Face Breaker always overperforms, and Hierling always underperforms.
Yea, BMC has huge upsides to various synergies, so I have to disagree on this one. I have it in my Nalia de’Arnise, and it becomes pivotal in forming a ‘party’ for the payoffs. Of course, this card was designed for this type of deck, either way I’ll always pay 2 life to draw a card, at the very least
I think tribal decks are what have made black market connections so popular. Reaper king loves the token, lathril never minds another elf, chatterfang gets a lot of squirrel juice from one trigger etc. there’s also some cool things you can do with life trade like profane transfusion, soul conduit or repay in kind etc.
Yeah disagree heavily on professional facebreaker. It's a borderline auto include for any red deck with a heavy creature density. Turns out a grim hireling side grade is a staple format. Same as Toski, there isn't a single green creature deck I can think of where you don't play him unless you're cedh. The correct answer is play both him and frostfanf
I will say tamiyo safekeeping is good for protecting enchantments that you don't want to lose. It's not just creatures
I strongly disagree on Glorious Sunrise. There's a plethora of ways to double up on the triggers, really boosting this cards output.
Professional Face Breaker is pretty good when you clone it with myriad and then hit all three at your opponents
I put Glorious Sunrise in my Tovolar deck, and yeah, I've been underwhelmed every time.
I love that Post Malone is a top tier sponsor trying to get Cherries their CEDH deck
He got me a cEDH deck cuz he is a sweetheart!
Imma be real this feels like a rare nerds miss to me 🤔 Toski and Professional facebreaker are both absurdly powerful in go wide decks, Toski isn't super difficult to remove but can avoid wipes and a fair chunk of cheap instants. Facebreaker is ramp and card advantage for decks on a 3 cmc body, grim hireling does make more treasure, but the ability to turn the treasure into cards is fantastic. Black market connections fills the same role as professional facebreaker where it ramps and draw, with the extra potential to make bodies as well, and even if you're only using 1 or 2 modes, most black decks can reliably regain life to some extent, and it's a solid B to A where if you're able to regain the life at all it's practically an auto include like staff of compleation. The rest I could get behind, but these feel off the mark to me
BMC is incredibly good in a Calgar deck
I have glorious sunrise in my wulfgar deck and focusing on multiple combats I get multiple triggers which is a good feeling
Awesome! Glad it is playing so well for you!
I agree that most of these cards aren't great in casual commander, but some of those (BMC, Clix, Cursed Mirror) are great in a lot of competitive decks. I know you all don't talk about that, but I think those cards are great for the Higher end Metas.
I feel like NPN is undervaluing Darksteel mutation. It can shut down commanders EASILY because it’s difficult to remove it from the battlefield without a enchantment removal.