A CLASSIC MARCHING TROMBONE (OR FLUGABONE)! Olds O-21 Marching Trombone review
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ต.ค. 2024
- While the marching trombone/flugabone terminology can be a bit nebulous the Olds O-21 is considered one of the (if not the original) examples of this design. Compared to the King 1130 flugabone the O-21 features a larger bore combined with a more compact design (which has made it a popular travel horn for many players as of late), giving it a different playing experience from the King-inspired designs.
Take a listen to this unique piece of trombone history and let us know what you think!
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Very nice job Keith! It would be nice if you did a performance comparison of all the flugalbones as far as tone, response and general feed back and how they compare to the valve trombone.
Bob Brookmeyer, Ashley Alexander and as you demonstrated the style of Wille Colon. Keep up the good work!!!
It's basically a Marching Valve Trombone
I have had an O-21 for years. Originally I used it as a practice horn when I was somewhere that I couldn't haul my trombone but still wanted to keep the chops up. It fits nicely in an overhead compartment in a plane : ) I keep it out on a stand at home next to my 'trombone family' of horns, and on occasion will pick it up in order to keep my valve chops in shape. Thank you for sharing this video.
Me too! Have played on a few jazz performances. Worked great when I had shoulder surgery as well.
I’ve got one of these in my school’s instrument inventory. I wish I had several more. The compact design is much easier for smaller kids to hold and carry for marching band.
The other great thing about the Valve Trombone is that the Valves allow those kids to play with precision. They could also recreate that Iconic sound that Puerto Rican Trombonist Juan Tizol was known for with Duke Ellington
I've never seen one of these before so this is interesting.
I have an Old 021, which I've had completely restored, and a Kanstul I purchased new a few years ago. Mine has an added first valve trigger, and the previous owner, Frank Phipps, also had Dick Akright at Oakland's slightly cant up the bell to enhance projection.
You're correct that the Olds plays more easily, which surprised me. Ergonomically, it is easier to hold, and because it's bore is a tad larger, there's less back pressure. I play both with a Marcinkiewicz 3. I play the Olds in a Salsa Orchestra at Berkeley's Jazz School.
I also have two fine bass trumpets whose sounds are a good fit for Brazilian Choro, a Kanstul 1088, and a Getzen. Both are more responsive and as good as they are neither Flugabone quite measures up. That's likely because Flugabones/Marching Trombones were designed for marching band.
Don't misunderstand; I enjoy all four. If you come across an Olds 021, consider getting one.
Funny, I think I saw your horn at A&G music in Oakland when I was getting my Bach Mercedes 883 fixed. The full Dizzy Gillespie treatment looked fun. The repair guy commented that he had never seen one before and he had just seen 3 in one week.
I took some classes at the Jazz School with Wayne Wallace many years ago. I occasionally play with the Laney Jazz orchestra but the commute is an issue.
Indeed you did. Bryan did a beautiful job.
Hey, I knew Frank! What a sweet guy. Loved his playing.
Yah, had I known about the flugabone 30 years ago, I would have stopped wasting my time with trombone. Went to uni to study trombone...fell more and more out of love with it later. The flugabone looks like a lot of fun, easy to travel with, and generally looks easier to play. Just need to transfer my brain from slide positions to the valves now...
Thanks for watching! I don’t think the flugabone will ever replace my Trombones for my regular work but I have certainly been able to incorporate it into a variety of settings and, as you mentioned, it has become my primary travel instrument (hard to beat it for size and convenience!)
I’ve been collecting valve trombones and flugabones over the past decade trying to figure out the best setup for jazz. (My brain and elbow just can’t deal with a slide fast enough for a conventional trombone).
The King 1130 and Kanstul 955 are the same basic design (top sprung vs bottom sprung valves). They are slightly cumbersome and have a consistent, pleasant, mellow sound that would probably not be mistaken for a trombone. The DEG, Jinbao and Lake City designs look similar, though I have not played them.
The O21, Bach 883, and Blessing M200 (and Reynolds TV-29) are all similar and amazing. The balance and compactness is beautiful, and the variety of colors you can get with different mouthpieces is great. But they still never quite get to the brashness of a New Orleans street trombone sound.
I managed to get a stock Conn 5H valve trombone (as used by Brookmeyer) and it’s really nice. Great big trombone sound and nice intonation. Also, a 1955 Olds O20 - a bit cloudier and sweeter sounding.
But the only thing I could find with that classic jazz power is the King 2B valve trombone with a 12C mouthpiece. The small bore and bell almost make it more of a bass trumpet. Unfortunately the horn is very difficult to hold, leaving no room for the right thumb. It’s also my only horn that’s still in production.
I'm wondering about how the different tubing wrap on the King affects the sound, tone, ease of play relative to the Olds, and some of the others (I picked up a Besson which plays nicely, but is wrapped similarly to the Olds there).
The sound of this instrument is the same as a Standard Valve Trombone it's just wrapped up like a Flugelhorn.
Tenho o flugabone king..e o olds ...ambos são incríveis !!!
É o mesmo trombonito?
@@compartilhandoumpouco3608 sim para nós aqui chamamos trombonito no Brasil ...
Dana K.
I’ve been looking for a valve alternative to slide and hated the strangulated sound of valve trombone. Until I came upon the Olds 021!
I had an Alexander Bass Trumpet (4 rotaries in C) and sold it. Bore approximately .085. Too small. The Olds uses a triple wrap like the Alexander - superior design, bore 015-.020. With my sound concept and approach it’s a bass trumpet. Using it in a jazz-rock & pop street band. Added hook to 3rd valve slide, tuning dead on - every note on the horn! Wick 4BS MP. (I play bass trombone) Everybody loves it. Saw a Reynolds for sale on internet, same great horn. Buy it, somebody!You’ll love it like I do!
Thanks for sharing (and watching!)
My band director got some for me and my friend , we play trombone, and we learned it in one day !
Late to the party...
If you ever get the chance, comparing the O-21 to Olds' regular valve trombone (O-20) is interesting. They're basically the same instrument, just wrapped differently. Think pocket trumpet vs. regular trumpet (though you'd need one heck of a pocket to fit an O-21).
I avoid using the terms "flugabone" or "flugelbone" when referring to the Olds O-21 (and its twin, the Reynolds TV-29); to me, they're always either a "marching trombone" (the original Olds name) or a "compact valve trombone" (which pretty much sums up exactly what they are).
When the King 1130 was developed (under Zig Kanstul's guidance, according to everything I've seen), they started with a clean slate. What they came up with wasn't a rewrapped version of an existing valve trombone design, but a completely new class of instrument, with a feel and sound that was different from a traditional valve trombone. To me, THAT'S a Flugabone, and its descendants/derivatives/clones are flugabones and flugelbones.
This demonstration is the most a flugabone has sounded like a trombone to me. Where can one buy one of these? You've really got a marvelous sound on that horn.
I've been debating adding either a flugabone or a British baritone lately.
I just found an old marceau Alto Horn in Eb it was described to me as a valved alto trombone, but it just sounds like lower trumpet.
Perfect for that Duke Ellington music
A good Juan Tizol instrument to be sure!
@@SchmittMusicTromboneShop Juan Tizol played Valve Trombone & this is basically a Marching variant of that instrument.
@@SchmittMusicTromboneShop Yes if you get sheet music of songs by Duke Ellington you'll notice that the 3rd Trombone part is written for a Valve Trombone
@@SchmittMusicTromboneShop This is that Juan Tizol sound.
Hi Keith, it sounds great! You have a really good sound. Is the instrument for sale? Because I'm interested!
Regards,
Alwin
Man I need to work harder and save some money for one. I love playing euphonium but love jazz. Learned some trombone and could play some songs but valves speak to me so much more.
I love the flugabone for jazz settings but euphonium can work as well; have you ever checked out any Rich Matteson?
@@SchmittMusicTromboneShop no I haven't but I definitely will now.
How do I get one? These look so sick!
When are we gonna see a review on a Benge trombone
Fine !!!!
Keith qual você achou melhor ? King ou olds?
Good question! I actually like the Olds a bit more; the larger bore size gives me a bit more of the color I am looking for in this design and I appreciate the compactness of the design (although it does become a bit hard to hold after a while as it is so tightly wrapped…$
How does this vary to a marching baritone, I know dumb question, but similar shape so I guess there the same? Correct me down below
It is very much a marching baritone, just an older design; as the marching instrument designs moved into the 1980’s and beyond they became larger (larger bore, larger bells), adding volume but in the opinion of many players losing some of the depth and nuance of sound and response of the smaller instruments…
@@SchmittMusicTromboneShop thanks SchmittMusicTromboneShop😁
Sir what is the name of the store selling that flugabone? Ty
Our store (Schmitt Music and the Schmitt Music Trombone Shop) offers a wide range of brass options. We unfortunately do not have an Olds O-21 in the shop at this time; however, we do have a flugabone design (due to popular demand) available, specifically our Lake City FLB415 flugabone. More information about the FLB415 is available at shop.schmittmusic.com/lake-city-415-flugabone/ and you can certainly feel free to email us at tromboneshop@schmittmusic.com as well!
Is the McCormick flugabone a clone of this horn? They look identical.
I haven't had any experience with the McCormick but I agree, it is certainly at the least inspired by the Olds!
my school calls them tromboniums bc its a trombone in the shape of a baritone
Many names, one unique instrument… ;)
Sound terrible when compare with a slide trombone. Any student trombone sounds better them this flugabone