Is Tony a Wonder Bread WOP? Sopranos evaluation
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ก.ย. 2024
- In this episode, we will evaluate whether or not Tony is a wonder bread WOP by first looking at the origin and meaning of the term, which proves to be surprisingly apt in this discussion, before moving on to the wonder bread part of the term, which brings us to the trip to Italy, and ending with whether or not Tony Soprano is a wonder bread WOP.
Is that bell a clue???
Ding
Héctor Salamanca
@@bullywhispers9544 Was his Dad a wonderbread too? seems likely
Livia and Johnny were second generation, Tony is third. He's *just* the right amount of close to Italy. His children are so American that their actors are Jewish and Irish.
The episode in Napoli says it all, they are all wonder bread wops. not a bad thing, just Americanized.
Not all just the ones who spend to much time with the merigan marry them ear there food act lie them
The Italy episode has always been one of my favorites. It’s a really good portrayal of how “insert nationality here”-American culture is never the same as “insert nationality here” culture. People get so wrapped up in “preserving their culture” but fail to realize they are preserving a different culture then they intend to.
Well said! I have Scottish ancestry, though I'm also from the new world. Always considered myself Scottish, always longed to return, always imagined I would feel at home. Went to a traditional Scottish wedding in Edinburgh, and as beautiful as it was I realised I'm not Scottish at all. The sadness 😂
100% it’s like nobody is more Irish than someone who has a great great great grandfather who came from Cork back in the potato famine.
Hyphenated American from Europe actually don't know much about their country of origin.
Like German Americans celebrating Oktoberfests.
I bet less than 0.001 of German Americans are from the city of Munich.
Great observation. Once a few generations pass everyone becomes just American lol
Expect for African Americans, Lost total connection to the mother land.
Finally answers we all needed.
An American wonder bread wop is not measured against how they stack up against actual Italians. The measuring stick are Italians whose last name is the sole indication that they're Italian. Therefore, the simple inclusion of some language, adhering to certain culinary customs, and mirroring some old-country sensibilities is actually enough to create a separation between wonder bread wops and Italians like Tony.
This is it
Its a generational thing, Phil totally sees Tony as this but Tony also see's Chris as this. Like you said too it's a Italian American only problem, the dudes from the old country just wanted to make the most money in the most efficient way. They found the American Romanticizes of Italy annoying. Thats how I read it.
They find Tony and others like him pretending to be Italian annoying. They would treat an Ethiopian immigrant who lived his whole life there Italian way before they'd treat the Sopranos as such.
@@Andre-by4suthat is not true at all lmao
@@tootall4this714It absolutely is in a lotta places.
Hyphenated American from Europe actually don't know much about their country of origin.
Like German Americans celebrating Oktoberfests.
I bet less than 0.001 of German Americans are from the city of Munich.
Junior does speak Italian to another old guy in a waiting room
He also cries out in Italian when he shoots Tony
Furio wouldn’t be considered a “wop” in this context because he isn’t an Italian American, he’s just Italian. I think this term wonderbread wop refers to Italian immigrants to America or their descendants who decided to embrace their new community and adapt Anglo Saxon /mainstream American ways and mannerisms over those of their ancestors. Hence “eating gravy out of a jar” symbolizes their lack of effort to maintain their Italian identities.
The tern actually is an abbreviation for "without papers." While it evolved into a catchall for Italian Americans, it could be used for any Italian in the country illegally. But I think Furio had papers. which is why he was working at Vesuvio's for a minute,
“…and Christopher brutally murder Cosette” is the best line uttered on TH-cam in 2023.
If you disagree…pistols at dawn.
Tony says a wonder bread wop “eats his Sunday gravy out of a jar” and literally sits down to eat a jar of gravy later in the series
He was eating peanut butter in that scene if you’re referring to when him and Chris were disposing Ralph.
@@thepalatrpro nah I was thinking of that scene when he’s sitting in his home theater talking to AJ but he’s eating salsa out of a jar not tomato sauce exactly
Whoa whoa whoa, Cosette crawled under Christopher for warmth, and then... It was an accident.
Junior is speaking italian with one of the old boys in one of the earlier episodes.
Kramer never had the makings of a varsity pimp.
To be fair that dish Paulie was looking down on was a classier and more expensive dish than tomatos and noodles. Hence their response to Paulie.
It looked like some type of authentic Italian pasta dish with squid hence the black color.
@@thepalatrpro Also referring to say for example bolognese sauce as "yah know gravy" instead of the dish name didn't help. Ironically imo he is the least wonderbread of the main jersey dudes.
I hated Adriana but that Melfie had that wonder bread WAP
The fundamental question is, will I be as effective as a wonderbread wop like my dad was? And I will be, even more so? But until I am, it's going to be hard to verify that I think I'll be more effective.
NEVER eat Phil's Manicotti
In prison he enjoyed guys eating his cannoli. Ah, the cream.
I wonder if Carmellas fantasy of Furio would last if they went for it? How long would it take her to realize she just got the same thing with different packaging? What would she think about him straight up punching women in the face? Does she think he is any different than Tony? Is he really any better than Tony on a morality level?
You should check out the Furio Rebel without a nickname episode. It gets touched on there. Thanks for watching!
@@bullywhispers9544 will do my friend. Keep up the great and interesting content
He is tony but slimmer and less anger tantrums and with a full head of hair, a small but appreciated upgrade for carm
@@rufusblue8044 I equate Furio to Jules and Vincent. He loves his friends and life but when it's time to "Get in character" he knows that switch has to be to flipped. I don't see him slapping around a real love interest.
He gets bees off people's hats, that's gotta count for something.
He's some where in the middle. Like most Italian Americans especially on the east coast. They have traditions and things they cling to and identify with more than being American.
I know from Italians on one side of my family and Lithuanians on the other, that language is the first thing to go. Even if children grow up speaking their parents’ native language, it’s stunted when school starts and assimilation begins. Food doesn’t have a language. Like was said in the video, you don’t need to actually speak a language to sing it. Even having the free-time to think about this stuff is something that doesn’t even start until the second or third generation 😂
5:19 guy named Manny Gott: Oh, Phil it should be you
First blood
Wonder bread means white. The expression means an Italian that has assimilated to a typical northern-European American lifestyle. Yeah, Tony matches the expression.
Right, its equivalent to oreo, coconut, or onion. Black, brown, yellow on the outside, white on the inside.
As a Norwegian, I resent and reject your idea of "northern European" culture.
Call it west European if you want, but there are more similarities between Americans and Italians than there are between Americans and Norwegians.
@@joachimwalle3760 Whole top and west of the US is full of Norwegians, Finns, and Swedes and the US culture reflects that. You may have confused film Americans with actual Americans. Washington state feels like 50% Norwegian. We have "Little Sweden" towns around the Midwest US. but ohhhh, did I offend you, pumpkin?
@@avernvrey7422 Yeah, I know enough about your "Norwegians" and barring some of their last names and love for potatoes, they might as well be aliens for all of our cultural differences.
Don't *try* to be a dick, by the way - let it happen naturally or take a chill pill.
Tomato based sauces in Italy is a relatively new thing only as recent as the 1600/1700's. Before then people thought tomatoes were poison and had to be convinced to eat them. So those guys in the old country probably see non tomato bases as more traditional.
Traditional Italians do utilize tomatoes, as well as several other New World food, frequently. The thing that threw the Italians off with Paulie’s comment is that he asked for macaroni and gravy. Which is what people from New Jersey call pasta and tomato sauce.
Lol, no, tomato is an integral part of real Italian food just as much as Murican "Italian"
@@blackfox4138 I’m sure you know but it’s not specific to NJ. 👍
@@blackfox4138 'gravy' is a made up NY thing that NY Italians think is real. My friend from Salerno fings this amusing, as he likes gravy on mashed potaoes and turkey. Also, no one in Italy knows what a stomboli is, another NY invention.
Nobody in my family ever called our sauce "gravy."
Most Italian Americans, myself included, grew up without any knowledge of Italian. They might have known expressions in their parents' dialect and especially food terms. Tony ancestors are from Naples area, where dialects are more widely used than in other parts of Italy. I lived in Italy in 3 very distinct regions, and rarely heard dialect. So the "wonder bread" classification wouldn't apply there. In most of the US, Italians weren't considered "white" (and certainly not Italian-Americans from southern Italian roots), until the 1920s, so the sense of identity would have lasted longer than other European groups. Nobody would know I'm of Italian origin except for my surname, which is very different from 99% of the Soprano's characters where you would know pretty quickly.
To make a long story short: Tony is not a wonder bread wop, despite his wealth.
An eight minute video on whether Tony really fits the description of some random insult he threw out? Sign me up
I was surprised by the TommyKay jump scare
Nice! Someone actually recognized him! Thanks for watching!
Its interesting how what is now considered a derogatory term came from a colloquial term of endearment.
He used a very bad word
LOVE the Tommy Kay shoutout. Love that crazy ginger. Of course you are a HOI4 fan
Damn! I look forward to these every week!!
My moms italian. Born and raised in Italy. Everyone in the show is a Wonder Bread wop. Even Furio sounded like an American faking an accent.
You are tripping, Federico was born in Napoli. You got no idea what you are talking about.
@@Bino8724 moved to USA when he was 3. Watch any interview of Federico and you’ll see he speaks English without an accent
@@elrifle24
First off this "WOP" stood for (Without papers) for immigrant italians, you couldnt be a "WOP" if you were born in america, so even by definition federico is not "Wonder bread" which is usually applied to 3rd or later generation italians who cant speak the language, do not have family in italy, do not have citizenship, do not own property, was not taught italian customs, cannot trace family lineage to specific towns or cities within the country. Federico has all of those characteristics and speaks Naploitan italian very well, it is the best accent in the country IMO.
Tony & his crew literally had none of those traits, their only real "cultural" connection to italy is the criminal aspect of it which is the worst part, unlike artie who carried his fathers passion for cooking which is an authentic practice.
Clearly you are a wonderbread wop yourself since you can't distinguish the difference between to the two. Just because your mother & my parents are italian doesnt matter, its what was passed down to us. Also so what if his English is good? I guess you arent italian unless you speak English like Mario? lol. Wonder bread WOP was a term created by 4th generation immigrants like Tony trying to prove how italian they were by being deameaing to other italian/americans.
Side note: alot of sons and daughters of immigrants families lost that culture becuase in places like Canada, the teachers would punish children for speaking italian in school. Justin Trudeau that idiot actually made a half assed apology for how badly his fathers administration & ppl against the mass immigration at that time treated italians. What Tony says is true to some extent, "what do you think america let us italians in for? to do theyre dirty laundry". However people like Tony and his father were the ones who made it difficult for hardworking honest italians to make a living, and that goes for all immigration, you bring the good parts of your culture & the bad.
Love the TommyKay Cameo.
One thing that always seemed strange was a “proud Italian American family” naming a daughter Meadow, which in the US would be a “hippie” name (like Leaves, Rivers, Oakley) and as american as you could get. On top of that Carm and Tony are Gen Xers so it’s not like they would he nostalgic about that time period.
Maybe this was another empty concession Tony made to Carm or Tonys attitude towards women showing he didn’t care what name his daughter had.
To old to be gen x.
Hyphenated American from Europe actually don't know much about their country of origin.
I bet less than 0.001 of German Americans are from the city of Munich.
Even if German-Americans make up the largest self-reported ancestry group within the United States accounting for roughly 49 million people and approximately 17% of the population of the US, most of them think of Germany as Bavarian theme park.
Great Point
@@johnscott6481 some list gen x to 59, so old gen x but still. Much like my parents he wouldn’t even be a pre teen during the hippie era
@@plaidchuck all good I actually didn't know there was a specific year I 41 and part of that generation I will be 50 next year so when I think about it we might be closer to agreement but I got to say that's probably the cutoff line right? Personally I would more think that The Sopranos were baby boomer children who were born in the late forties fifties basically as old as my mother... Christopher I would say is more representative of Generation X carmelina or Tony...
No way Tony is a wonderbread Wop (No disrespect) they were not trying to integrate into the Anglo-Saxon Protestant society.
Just because he wasnt trying to doesnt mean he wasnt. Thanks for watching!
Then why did he tell Richie this was an English speaking community. Tony also looked up to the strong silent type actor. Forget his name. Tony kinda acted like al bundy at home
@@bullywhispers9544Hyphenated American from Europe actually don't know much about their country of origin.
Like German Americans celebrating Oktoberfests.
I bet less than 0.001 of German Americans are from the city of Munich.
What the fuck is a wonderbread wop?
it’s an italian/italian-american who identifies with his/her country but does not follow any of the traditions from the old schools of thought
@@user-tx3xm4gw6i As a black man... yeah, I kinda get this a bit from others, sometimes to a derogatory degree.
It’s an Eyetalian at home in Elvis Country 🤌🏻
@@c0ya1do you eat pumpkin or sweet potato pie during the pie holidays?
@@hithere4719 Hmm, I hadn't tried pie but cake is good.
A wonderbread wop is an American who eats there spaghetti like a 90s kid instead of garlic bread
They keep the pasta but forget the bread.
Bully sold us Heroin when that was our thing. He's still here when it's Wonderbread Wop whackin time in Brooklyn
Thats why you came to us! That’s some stereotype schit!!
@@gfunkmadness 🤣🤣🤣🤣. Don't tell Kaisha
Heroin is still my thing idk about you all
In Australia we use the term Wog instead of Wop. It’s not reserved for just Italians but anyone from a non-English speaking part of Europe, generally Greeks and Italians.
Wog Boy
@@Shade497 when I first come to Australia they call me stupid bloody wog, you know fuck nothing. But I show them, and now I know fuck all!
That was a great Phil edit 😂
Amazing video to be honest… I had no idea what it meant and only heard it on this show and boy meets world
As far as the food / eating Sunday gravy out of a jar goes.. I think if it wasn't for Carmela, if Tony was completely on his own without a woman to cook for him, he would definitely be eating his Sunday gravy out of a jar... Or he would just go out to eat at vesuvio or other places every single day and night
1:51 Kramer is the platonic ideal of swagger
My estimation of Bully Whispers as a man just fucking plummeted.
I don't know if I have a favorite Sopranos episode more so many moments.
Pine Barrens
The TommyKay clip!
Wraps and salads only, after 11
does anyone else think the lady at 1:11 looks like Italy's version of Livia? 😂
Great topic and Insights.
Ha ya popped me on this title..one of the best yet..
Yes..yes he is..
I spent 2 months in Naples, saw so many of those places they showed in that show. Naples was all about the seafood,
Junior was shown to speak Italian a couple of times throughout the season.😊
I had to double check that it wasn't April Fools day. I thought for sure this video was going to be a joke but it was actually really informative. I had never heard the term WOP before and thought it was WAP. Anyways great video
yeah,... i know but he does the blessing well...
I am not European but I think they have a bias concerning food there. I've heard more than once that asking for something like ketchup in a restaurant in France would piss off anyone in earshot.
when you're served a meal in france, the only acceptable requests are coffee or a cigarette
They have mayo in france but no ketchup or mustard, either it has meaning or no meaning, i've said my piece.
Dutch put mayo on fries! Disgracia!
@@SernivalHyphenated American from Europe actually don't know much about their country of origin.
I bet less than 0.001 of German Americans are from the city of Munich.
Even if German-Americans make up the largest self-reported ancestry group within the United States accounting for roughly 49 million people and approximately 17% of the population of the US, most of them think of Germany as Bavarian theme park.
@@Grandmaster-KushThey do, tf you talking about
A bully whispers New Jack City analysis would be epic!
I wonder where harpos eating his sunday gravy
Christafuh did not "brutally murder" the dog. Murder by definition requires intent, he was so doped up he accidentally killed her when he failed to realise he'd sat on her.
The Video title alone had me reaching for the Prozac 😂
As a retired member i confirm you’re hole point of view to how you break down these laws a life of misery its all it is at the end
When you throw a piece of crap against the wall. It makes the sound WOP
Imagine that getting a facelift and one week later you’re in jail
Gud job with the Nino brown reference.
Now you've got a subscriber from Ukraine. Forgetaboutit!
The whole relationship between Italian/Sicilians in different parts of the diaspora, their identity, the actual cultures in the areas they came from, and how they view eachother is one that's been mad fascinating to me for many years and I think The Sopranos absolutely killed it.
My only real complaint is that they showed a bit of a stereotype-heavy image with only a couple of variants. The reactionary and outta touch middle ager who thinks they're preserving a culture they never knew and don't like when they come into contact with it, the kid who is a better person in many ways but comes off as disingenuous in the process and has to sell out their culture to do it, the yuppies that have fully sold out their culture and assimilated into whiteness, etc, but my family and many I knew coming up didn't match up with any of these as a whole even when some individuals did. Just a lotta the picture not shown is all, but I get that that's not what the show is about.
It's wild that Americans associate tomatoes so much with Italy when they're South American
Like when people associate Ireland with potatoes, which are American (continent)
I mean...tomato based products are usually raved about not the actual fruit. But yeah it is wild how spread happens. Imagine being the first taste tester for a tomatoes. Hope they ate a red one 😂
We're completely out of control like that.
@@mtae5 LITERALLY UNGOVERNABLE
Yes Furio was far more committed to their idea, he really was a soldier. I cannot see Tony trying to fight Furio over his ego like he did with Muscles Marinara.
Furio would fuck him up real badly, thats for sure.
Furio would've took and instantly apologized. He would've never lay his hands on the boss. It's against his nature.
He could've done it easily at the helicopter. But he couldn't do it..
Commendatori
-Paulie
Not in the sense he means it. He's American first and Italian second. He's never abandoned his Italian roots like Cusamano but they're diluted as a result of being American
Bro. He’s literally seeing a therapist.
In Canada specifically Toronto, we call them Mangia cakes.
So I watched the whole thing and the conclusion is that it is up to me. Okay.
Its embarrassing when a British person is more connected to you're homeland than you are.
That scene at 1:56 that looks like an Italian Im Goin to Get You Sucka, whats it from?
You missed an important facet of Wonder Bread: it's full of chemicals and artificial ingredients. This definitely applies to Tony, what with his compulsive, almost pathological womanizing and gambling.
Let's not forget that his big moment of enlightenment came about because of chemicals (peyote).
No hes pretty legit and older school italian.
Jr spoke Italian to that old dude who owned the farm. They were trying to bust him out of that looney bin.
He's like wop with a virginia ham under each arm crying the blues 'cause he's got no wonder bread
There's levels of wonder bread wopness. Obviously by growing up in America, you can't be as Italian as an Italian born and raised in Italy. However, there are Italians living in America that do hold onto much of their traditional cuisine and take pride and effort in making it authentic. Tony and most of the NJ mob guys definitely fit into that mold. Meanwhile, overly-Americanized people like Cusamano are the next rung down on the latter. They eat their sunday sauce out of a can and eat commercialized garbage like Wonder Bread instead of either making their own sauce and bread or at least buying real bread at an Italian bakery.
NO ONE ON YT DID "Rise and fall of David Scatino" Im searching this character, still nothing. If had channel would created it for adventage
Medigan’ & Wonderbread Wop are relative terms.
Everyone not Italian-American, and completely culturally disconnected Italian-Americans are Medigan’ compared to me, a 1st generation Italian-American.
I’m a Medigan’ compared to my dad who came over himself as a 12 year old in 1971, as he speaks the language/his dialect but is Americanized.
He’s a Medigan’ to his relatives still in Italy.
And so on.
from the outside this is insane to me
@@tonoornottono what about it?
@@paisan8766 well, you’d think at some point down the line you’d stop holding other people to the standard yknow? like you said, it’s relative. and it’s kinda arbitrary. why label somebody else with a label which could just as easily be applied to you?
yknow it’s kinda like insulting people for being poor, when there’s always somebody richer. it just seems kinda useless and it highlights a lack of awareness for your own situation. again, this is from the outside, so i don’t mean any disrespect or anything. maybe i’m misinterpreting the spirit in which the word is used, but tony seems to use it in a pretty demeaning way so that’s the context i have for it.
@@tonoornottono it’s just a cultural/ethnic thing lol
@@paisan8766 yeah i’m not confused about that part
UP IN DA CLUB!
TommyKay jumpscare
Like calling Black person an Oreo Cookie? An Asian a Banana 🤔
term guappo, roughly meaning "dandy", or "swaggerer". In spanish guapo mean "handsome" and guapa "Pretty". Quite funny
4:56 - Wonder Bra wop.
Wonderbread Wop literally just refers back to a time when Italians weren't considered "white" in America, and the eventually assimilation into white suburban culture.
Tony is 100% a Wonderbread wop.
It seems like they'd all be wonder bread wops
Tony isn't a Wonder Bread WOP but his grandchildren will be
No but he was a strict catholic
5:19 lol
Why does time move so fast in Italy? Because ever time you turn your head a dago-s by.
That entire episode probably took place in the span of like a week in the Sopranoverse, a day is like 5-10 mins
Will you ever do an analysis of Power, Ghost of Force?
Id have to rewatch Power first, its not fresh enough in mind and havent seen ghost yet. Thanks for watching!
By this definition of “wop”, I think the name is an oxymoron, like “jumbo shrimp”.
If you’re a “wop” for being a flamboyant Italian, specifically an immigrant, and “wonder bread” is referring to being Americanized… then the term just doesn’t make much sense.
They call his italianness FLAT 😂😂😂
Tony never had the makings of a varsity loaf of bread.
Ahh.. yes - one of the most consequential questions of our generation
Looking forward to him covering breaking bad
What was this? Last night's reading assignment?
El Gaupo from Three Amigos
I dunno, but I guess the Irish American equivalent would be one of us who thinks cornbeef and cabbage is the daily meal of our peat bogger ancestors or maybe sone roast beef out of a crockpot