Same, I don't really watch Dudley much, but Dan and MFJJ really got my obsession started. I then found Chris Bee and really enjoyed his videos as well. I'm an avid listener of Elk Shape podcast and wish Chris and MFJJ had one as well.
People that say the whisker biscuit is useless or a awful rest most times haven't used one or just like blaming their tools for their own problems because out to 100 yards the rest does what it supposed to do itsthe archer that's the problem biscuit is still a great hunting rest and carry one as a backup
@travistwwreck1535 Anybody who hates WB has never used them either lol... they're not a 3D rest. I start everyone on one, especially for whitetail distances. Some guys stick w them and shoot well out to 40-50yds. Others switch to drops or limb rests and don't shoot that much better. I shoot a drop on compounds but have WB on all my kids bows etc. For ranges that guys SHOULD be shooting, a WB is more than adequate. These channels attract a funny group of commenter's. Everyone acting like they are Levi Morgan and need a $5k setup etc, to shoot. I've killed last 2 buck w a 52# recurve off the shelf... according to you guys that's impossible.
Been using the biscuit for twenty years and will continue to do so. I know my arrow is secure with no moving parts to worry about failing, not having to worry about failing moving parts/strings while I am in the woods. Those fall away rests are nice if you are target shooting and competition shooting.
Years ago, we ran the same test. Difference was 1fps based on average. Biscuits are a great rest given solid shooting form. Shot 297 Vegas with one once. At distance, I’ve found drop away slightly and I mean slightly more forgiving. That’s at 60 yards and beyond. Back in the 2000’s my group harvested 7 Booners all shooting Biscuits, so there’s that too. Definitely a set it and forget it rest! A lot of hate for Biscuits out there, and unwarranted for certain.
Steve...I've mentored some beginning archers and you're correct....solid form is a must when shooting this rest, especially at distance. Their marketing plan has been brilliant as it seems every bow on the rack has one attached.
My Friend JJ! Thanks brother for doing this test! I never gave this much thought 💭 as you being the complete bow mechanic as your vids have demonstrated. I never doubted you! But, as you said, “going forward” it would prolly be best to keep all of the fan boys at bay, maybe try the limb driven rest for complete consistency! I just want the facts compared to the bow companies hype they put out there, and your vids hold them all accountable! Thanks for that MFJJ!
I’ve used Whisker Biscuit rests on 3 Mathews and 2 Bowtech bows over past 10 years. Tight groups 20-70 yards consistently. This test showed 226,227,227 FPS so WB more consistent than drop away rest with 5 FPS variance. Something to think about. PSE and Maxima arrows work perfect with my WB rests.
Awesome video! I’ll keep using my whisker biscuit. Never had an issue with them. A video I’d like to see is if there is an accuracy difference at different distances.
I believe that dropaway gives a little bit more forgiveness than any of the brush style rest at 50yards or farther , doesnt make much difference at FPS .
@@kkkzzz546 little bit. Lets look at that.. Contact the whole way, vanes flexing and twisting there way through the bristles a sloppy hole to sit in. vs no contact drop away . I can group at 50 yards within an inch with a drop away, 3-4 with a brush , add a breeze an inch turns to 2 and 4 turns to 10 . I hunt for an ethical kill fast kill, not a 2 hour search like the whisker lovers do . How many gut shot deer with a toilet brush rest, I say lots.
I've done this exact same test so many times it ain't funny and there is so little difference in the 2 rest... I install more whisker biscuit rest in my shop than any other rest combined... it's just a good solid hunting rest... Love your channel keep up the great content
I love mine. Honestly, I really like the trade off of simplicity. Reducing extra mechanical devices is my preferred method. I have never had an issue with the whisker bisket in both accuracy and taking game. But I do shoot 50 yards and in. The drop away seems to give a bit of an edge in longer ranges. Great video
Me too...I'm not an "Archer." But I have 3 bows all with the Biscuit and can shoot a tennis ball at 80 yds. on a good day with all 3...😁...Funny how he got varying degrees with the fall away TWICE, but the Biscuit was dead on!! 🤣...So for all the guys that keep saying how the fall away is better: 🤫🤐😶...😂🤣😅
@@snipersteve378 ...Ikr!! I have 3 bows all with the Biscuit and are set out to 80 yds...I can hit a tennis ball at that distance on a good day...The fall away is a waste of $$$ imho...
@@ICU2B4UDO im definitely getting a new bow this coming winter I'm going to set it up with the whisker biscuit I'm either going Matthews v3x or PSE Evo XT. My 11-year-old Evo with the code red rest has treated me good but time for an upgrade.
For hunting I think WB is king. Nothing mechanical can go wrong while on a hunt unlike a drop-away. I currently have a Hoyt and a Mathews, Hoyt had WB and Mathews has the integrate drop away. I’ve shot both for years, accuracy is the same and I’ve seen multiple tests showing only 1-2fps difference. At this point I think it’s more of an ego thing. Drop aways are the new tech/trend and people just want to flex them. If I had only one style rest to shoot rest of my life or to take on a LONG hunting trip it would be a WB all day. Does the same job and arguably just as efficient for a fraction of the price and is more durable. I still have a WB from 2014 that still shoots like it did new
You have a cadence about you MFJJ that I just can’t put my finger on, and I like it. I tell my hunting circle about your videos often and share your insights. I just purchased an bow vice and in the process of ordering a bow press. Your videos have boosted my confidence in this venture. Thank You.
Great video. I personally prefer the fall away rests vs a biscuit, but the performance is negligible and won’t take away from overall bow performance. 🤘🏻
The cord on the fall away rest has mass and aerodynamic drag, which mostly offsets any gains realized by removing the frictional losses from the biscuit. The upside is your arrow is held in place noise-free, ready to shoot while you're stalking.
Back to a whisker biscuit. Been through the break downs and headaches of drop aways. Good ones too. Important to remember: There are 3 or 4 sizes of whisker biscuit. There should be around .03 inches above the arrow for space when knocked, from arrow shaft to top of biscuit when the arrow is resting on the bottom. Don't expect your best precision if you are shooting a 6mm arrow and a large Biscuit. The gap will be huge. 6 mm should use a small.
Shot a biscuit for years now, love it. No moving parts to worry about, no clearance issues to work out, nothing attached to the cable. The only real draw back i see is the fact that your arrow is in contact with the bow a little longer making form that much more important, but I've killed many animals with no issue.
I have always wondered about the differences between a whisker and fall away rest. My buddies used to give me crap until I finally put a fall away rest on my bow and replaced my whisker biscuit. I get it and I see pros and cons of the change. I changed because of the ware and tare on my fletchings and not speed. I want to feel comfortable with my bow’s accuracy not speed. I didn’t mean to start a big debate about whisker biscuits vs fall away rest.
I shoot a drop away. It did fail on me years ago on a hunt in cold weather. The launcher did not drop. Causing a clean miss at 40 yds. Whisker biscuit never did that. I still shoot drop aways, but if i know ill be hunting the late season, i dont hesitate to switch to the biscuit. Great video. Thnx
I think the kind of arrow used and, expecially, the kind of fletching, play a big role in the speed difference. I've little experience with biscuit style rests, but, maybe, the "Hostage" rest (I mean the one with the 3 brushes) shows even less speed difference compared to the fall away.
Hell, that bow was just getting warmed up like rifle on the bench. Shoot three more😉 On a serious note..set up a hooter shooter type device and do your testing to eliminate "any" human error. Just a thought if you want to get down to brass tacks. Cheers
I have had these same results. What I do find interesting is how the standard deviation and extremely spread was smaller with the WB. The drop away had a greater SD and ES.
Looking at going away from the biscuit, not for speed, but because of something you said in a fletching video about the Arizona ez fletch and vanes being taken off by the biscuit.
10 years ago I had a dropaway rest on my bow. Walking to my stand in the dark, and didn't realize I snagged my rest cord on some brush and ripped it clean out of my cable. Morning hunt was ruined. Went to a WB and never looked back.
Awesome video. The variance on the drop away rest is kind of crazy. I wonder what the whisker biscuit average would be after 6, since the drop away avg was 328.17 but had such large discrepancies between the highs and lows.
I honestly think both work fine, I just want something that is consistent all the time. For me personally the biscuit has not failed me, but I prefer the limb driven fall away.
As a whitetail hunter I prefer a whisker biscuit.... because if the weather is cold enough a fall away can lock up.... the tech at my local bow shop told me that this has happened to multiple people he knows. A whisker biscuit is fail-proof and a more reliable rest. Also being up close and personal with white tails a whisker biscuit makes zero noise both on the draw or release. One more key is that its very difficult for your arrow to fall out of it once inside Just make sure you store your bow inside of your house because humidity can negatively affect a whisker biscuit
Limb dampeners, string silencers, peeps etc all affect arrow velocity about the same. One or two fps for each item added. That's probably why your speed results are so far away from the manufacturer. Whisker biscuit, limb dampeners, string silencers and peeps add up to about four to six fps, maybe even 8 fps total, depending on the bow. You're frequently 8 to 10 fps lower than the bow manufacturer rating so it makes sense. Good assessment by the way. Whisker biscuit or hostage rests are the only ones I use as they don't have moving parts so can't fail.
MFJJ you should take a look at the Black Eagle In Cam Timing System and let us all know what you think of it. Keep up the awesome work and love seeing what you do!
IMO the Whisker Biscuit is the GOAT of hunting rest. I'm on my second season with the Trinity, so far I like it with my heavy arrow build, always tinkering, and learning💡
Show me a fall away that doesn't run the risk of failure. The comment said the GOAT of hunting rest. How could the biscuit not be? It's no less accurate at hunting ranges, velocity loss is basically non existent, weather will not effect it, and it will not fail. To deny that is not ignorant, it's dishonest.
Interesting real world test. Everyone is concerned with the speed but this test brings up another point-which is more consistent? That big of a spread in velocity(and was repeatable) in theory challenges the point that the drop away is the more consistent and accurate rest in the real world.
Good video - thanks for doing that. My take away is the ES (Extreme Spread) of velocity seems more consistent with the biscuit - would not have guessed that. That could mean better accuracy. In your spare time, would you do a larger sample size to confirm lower ES with biscuit....say a set of 30 each?😁
For what its worth, bears adj. letoff, 75, 80, 85, 90% is 4fps top to bottom... 90% being slower obv. The big deal is do you want hold time, or a stable shot . . Most target bows are 50-60% hold weight iirc.. I suspect mating with a higher weight would yield some intersting results but speed comes from the draw curve. Adding a touch of draw length beyond the module profile (which is basically how it works) wont yield as much as 5lbs of draw so id bet 75lb on 85% is faster than 7080. Longer dl, more dw...
Always wondered about that.. always figured it would be more of a fps loss.. thanks for the video.. always learning something.. that’s why I watch ur videos 👍
Will you do the test again and do what most shooters do and cut away the bristles that come in contact with the fletching . The only thing you want to come in contact with the bristles is the arrows at full draw . Once the arrow is moving forward the arrow shouldn't come in contact with the bristles at all if your are in good tune and the fletching are free to pass through without making contact with the bristles . If you don't want to cut away the bristles they make a whisker biscuit that has a 3 piece bristle configuration .
i don't know anything about archery, but if you want to be consistent in the comparation speed data, you shoud shoot from same position, you shoot 30 cms at least closer to the chrony in the second set, check you back position against the background and you will agree. in the third set the speed seems to be afected by the position too
A brand new biscuit will have a higher impact on drag, so if that's what you used you may want to try a well used biscuit that has channels in the bristles for the vanes to pass through with less drag. May make a slight improvement, but thanks for the video, your results were close enough for me to consider. Great job.
I’m new to shooting. But based on that test. I would think the whisker biscuit is actually the more consistent and better choice as setting up a bow and planning to do my first TAC event next year. Since if attempting the farther shots at the even like 100 yards. There would be significant drop if your sights were set when it hit 331 and then you shoot a far shot and it comes out 326 making you hit low. If I’m thinking about that correctly. I’ve also heard (no facts) that a WB could shift the angle slightly which isn’t noticeable at 40 yards but could put the arrow off at 100 yards. I will have a hard enough time with my own flaws, curious on this information to at least have the bow set up correctly.
I have the same chronograph and noticed you are shooting lighted nocks. From my experience especially using the strobeing nocturnal it has a tendency to affect the reading passing the sensors. Just my experience.
I have had two fall away rest fail on me. One was a ripcord the other a QAD. Both had internal spring failures and failed to drop. The Ripcord failed at the most inopportune time and it caused me to lose a big Buck.
@@AA-mk4pu limb driven rest are supposed to support the shaft for the longest period of time before dropping out of the way to clear the fletching . Limb driven rest also don’t have the bounce issues that traditional drop aways used to have “not so much any more” so I would they there is a possibility that a limb driven could present a slightly differing result
Ooh boy am I gonna rub some peoples noses in this video! I've shot a biscuit almost since they came out, simplicity at its finest(for hunting at least)
i have done the same test as well but with an arrow that was 10gr per pound of draw and had no difference what so ever between a whisker and drop away. i think the 1-2 fps lost is seam more with a lighter faster arrow being affected more with the vanes passing through then a heavier arrow.
I could be wrong, but I wonder if the difference might be more pronounced with a hootershooter…mildly varying levels of back tension during the shot could have an impact, doubt it would be much, but maybe the hootershooter could take the human element out of the draw mechanics
Splitting hairs. You are theoretically pulling against a backwall. Therefore you are only theoretically thinking about the stretch or elasticity in the string. Considering each strand is equivalent to ~300lbs tensile strength fishing line. At 18-24 strands on average you have a combined of 6,000 lbs of tensile strength. I'm not saying it won't make a difference or that the string doesn't stretch, but what I am saying is that the precision of his chronograph wouldn't be able to accurately show the decimal differences of how much affect a human can stretch a bow string. Just my opinion though.
@@HuntsT hmm…have you played around with a chrono before? I can get a lot more out of my bow with proper back tension than I can just pulling to the cable stops and punching…perhaps my bt-mag has a softer back wall than your bow? Either way when doing science, you’re technically supposed to split hairs ;)
@@tmalonso every science or engineering practice or calculation has a set "Significant Digit" calculation that matters for the evolution at hand. So my point on the splitting hairs was that an estimated repeated change in the fraction of Foot Per Second probably plays almost zero role on the "mechanical system" of which is shooting a bow accurately at distance. There are always going to be way to many variables that you can bring up and that would result in different results if performed by another person. Meaning different D-loop material (could absorb energy especially when pulling into the backwall), string material used, # of strands in the string bundle, were they pre stretched when created, how old are the strings, coefficient of fraction between the arrow surface and the rest contact point, nock release strength from string, forward pressure or sprung energy exerted by grip upon release of arrow (if its rubber or soft in any way it will compress and then decompress away from hand and toward the target), sprung force from the meat or skin on the palm of your hand... you could continue to dissect ever thing. Which is fine. But understanding at what point will this actually make any difference in performance might help. I plan on starting a channel soon. I hope to touch on many of the physics experiments and affects behind the various things that affect what we do when shooting a bow.
@@HuntsT you’re missing my point, I can achieve 3-5fps differences in velocity on my chrono when applying proper back tension on release instead of just holding at the back wall and punching the thumb button…I get what you’re trying to say, you think if it’s less than a fps who cares, but when it’s larger than the discrepancy produced by the whisker biscuit, it would seem statistically significant:)
I would be interested in a machine shot accuracy test at longer ranges. I've used both, I like both. But for hunting..... whiskers are quiet, have little to go wrong ,have nevered failed me .Drop away has.
would like to see this repeated with a hostage style three brush rest, the full brush biscuit, and after making sure the drop away was tuned well, since it's variance was sufficiently extreme that I doubt that particular set up could group especially well.
My question is what is the difference on a lower power bow. High powered bow's produce so much energy that the biscuit does not impact speed much. What happens when you have someone that has a draw weight under 35 lbs? I would guess that impact would be greater?
Makes one wonder if the whisker biscuit is actually the best all around rest for hunting. I'm sold on my hamskea but maybe its time for the biscuit lol
Thanks for putting that to rest, No pun intended . I had always heard there was a difference of 6 - 10 fps.. So why Fall Away ? Is it more accurate than Whisker biscuit? Maybe that's next video
MFJJ, unrelated to this video but was wondering what your experience if any is with the trophy ridge react sights. Looking to upgrade to a higher end single pin. Any insight from you would be awesome. Keep feeding us the killer videos, they're the best out there.
The only issue I had the the whisker biscuit is over time the whisker would start to shear off and and the arrow wouldn’t sit right in the rest leading to inconsistency so drop away it is
Could the whisker biscuit start the rotation of the arrow earlier than a drop away? Potentially giving it more accuracy due to the fletching hitting a solid substance instead of air causing earlier and probably faster rotation. If you have helix mounted fletchings that is.
We tested those arrow rests and a Bowtech arrow rest (the kind with three containment bristles). We shot a ton of arrows through three different bows and got about the same results as you. The Bowtech containment bristle rest was the same speeds as the drop away rests due to no fletching contact. Also the regular vanes averaged 1fps more through the biscut vs blazer vanes.
thanks MFJJ the same guy commented the same BS on my tictok. i got another one for you that ive heard and never tested. " a bow will break in strings and after the first 250-350 shots will actually gain 5-7 FPS after the break-in period." next time you get a test bow into the shop dyno it raw and after 500 shots to compare the performance. ill bet there is a slight increase.
Thanks for this. Next time do a lot more shots and just speed it up the sample size is really kind of tiny for a test. One thing that jumped out at me was the consistency of the wb compared to drop away but there was not enough shots to really see if more variance would have shown up. Anyways I like to see this kind of content
Lol, I literally commented about the whole whisker biscuit vs drop away rest thing on one of your videos yesterday. I saw a guy doing some similar tests and he was seeing a much bigger difference, but he was shooting a much slower bow. It does seem strange that the drop away is so inconsistent.
I've shot QAD, VT, and ripcord rests for a bunch of years...last year I slipped and fell on a bridge and ruined my QAD. I put a biscuit on and continued the season. Then I shot indoor leagues and 3d leagues with the biscuit and shot the same scores as I did with my fall aways. I also tested them over a chrono and came out with a 3 fps difference. After 25 years of hunting and shooting I honestly believe the biscuit gets a bad rap. The one key to using them? USE BLAZERS(or similar)....thats my experience anyway ....
The biscuit bad rap is basically a marketing scheme that most new comers swallow without thought... if you dont use cheap vanes ( ive shot the same arrows for years) they dont get damaged.. if i had to be critical of the two drawbacks, 2fps loss and the bristles wear out and tangle after a few years, id still say the simplicity, containment, and reliabilty out weight the cons every time... all other failures as rare as they are, are user errors... i just cant bring myself to spend 200 dollars over 50 for the same performance with a bigger potential down side...
Heat vanes through biscuit glide though like butter..... The more textured surface to the blazers has more resistance on the nylon bristles... Amazing to feel if you pull the arrows thru rest with the hand.
Now "Trophy Ridge" (same company as Whisker Biscuit) came out with the V-Maxx not to long ago, and getting better results from the V-Maxx. Arrows just slide easier through the V-Maxx for some reason. Just a thought.
I’m interested to dive into the bigger standard deviation with the fall away. Both times there was roughly 5 FPS variance from fastest to slowest. I wonder if that would change with the fall away string tied in properly? Maybe the vanes are slightly further back on on arrow that gives complete clearance from the fall away versus the others just touching? Spitballing here, could spine have anything to do with it? Could the faster arrows spine be better aligned with the string so more energy is being put into forward momentum versus bending the arrow (which might make the other two slower). Perhaps the whisker biscuit reduces that bending of the arrow giving a tighter group?
I’d like to see a longer range version of this testing. 15-20 yards maybe? If there’s a 1.5-2 FPS difference coming directly off the bow at launch, what does that immediate slow in momentum do to the arrow a bit further? Just curious. Great video. Thanks for posting
I'm personally not so worried about the speed, but more about the tunability. Does the wisker biscuit interfere with getting an arrow with a broadhead to tune properly being that it is contacting the arrow while on the rest? I think thats the advantage of the fall away. It drops away so quickly, it doesn't have contact with the arrow during flight.
Josh cool vlog and thanks for clearing that scenario out between the two different arrow rests. I personally prefer the drop away rest and I like QAD a lot. Do you have any preference for a arrow rest?? Thanks buddy!!
Hey MFJJ good video I have seen about the same. Some people care about 2 fps even though it won't matter. What are the most popular targets you sell? I have 365 Trio not really in love with it. I feel at this point all the money I have spent should of got a Matrix. Thoughts on best longest lasting targets for all around. I shoot heavy arrows and Rinehart seams to be only thing to stand up to the job but the green dots is ugh with green pin. Thanks - keep putting good videos up!
Chris O....I've only seen the Matrix once and it intrigued me. After doing a bit of research I'd be a player and give it a try. Replace only the modules that wear out and or don't catch arrows. 🤔👍
Agreed on the 365 targets I was blowing thru in less then a month 2-3 sessions a week, rotating the faces each session. Granted I was shooting an 85lb bow with 600grain arrows. Had complete target failure at 2 months, say softball size area of the target was shredded. The cost of the replacement cores is as much as a cheap target from Cabela's. For a bit.more you can get a matrix and get 9 targets one the square and I think 6 on the hexagon shaped one. Wish I could get the matrix here in Canada. They won't ship when I asked.
1 fps faster on average with the drop away, but WAY more variance in speed. The reliability and consistency of the biscuit is very appealing. I think I'll get a whisker biscuit for my next rest.
I might switch back to a biscuit because less moving parts and no cable
The grin on the first arrow with the drop away when it was 326 was fantastic.
Dudley, you (MFJJ), Dan and Chris bee are the reason I’m obsessed with archery
Same! Haha
Same, I don't really watch Dudley much, but Dan and MFJJ really got my obsession started. I then found Chris Bee and really enjoyed his videos as well. I'm an avid listener of Elk Shape podcast and wish Chris and MFJJ had one as well.
Thanks lol
Yesssss good explain
People that say the whisker biscuit is useless or a awful rest most times haven't used one or just like blaming their tools for their own problems because out to 100 yards the rest does what it supposed to do itsthe archer that's the problem biscuit is still a great hunting rest and carry one as a backup
100 yards what BS . 50 yards when new, after 100 arrows they turn to shit. Anyone who uses them ,only like them as they are cheap .
@@AussieArcher1234lol
@travistwwreck1535 Anybody who hates WB has never used them either lol... they're not a 3D rest. I start everyone on one, especially for whitetail distances. Some guys stick w them and shoot well out to 40-50yds. Others switch to drops or limb rests and don't shoot that much better. I shoot a drop on compounds but have WB on all my kids bows etc. For ranges that guys SHOULD be shooting, a WB is more than adequate. These channels attract a funny group of commenter's. Everyone acting like they are Levi Morgan and need a $5k setup etc, to shoot. I've killed last 2 buck w a 52# recurve off the shelf... according to you guys that's impossible.
Been using the biscuit for twenty years and will continue to do so. I know my arrow is secure with no moving parts to worry about failing, not having to worry about failing moving parts/strings while I am in the woods. Those fall away rests are nice if you are target shooting and competition shooting.
Exactly!!! Great Job MFJJ. Always watching some of your videos while having some coffee and then head off to my own shop! Great job!
Years ago, we ran the same test. Difference was 1fps based on average. Biscuits are a great rest given solid shooting form. Shot 297 Vegas with one once. At distance, I’ve found drop away slightly and I mean slightly more forgiving. That’s at 60 yards and beyond. Back in the 2000’s my group harvested 7 Booners all shooting Biscuits, so there’s that too. Definitely a set it and forget it rest! A lot of hate for Biscuits out there, and unwarranted for certain.
Steve...I've mentored some beginning archers and you're correct....solid form is a must when shooting this rest, especially at distance. Their marketing plan has been brilliant as it seems every bow on the rack has one attached.
No biscuit hate from me i got two cheapos and just splurged on a TR VCON at sportsman warehouse
My Friend JJ! Thanks brother for doing this test! I never gave this much thought 💭 as you being the complete bow mechanic as your vids have demonstrated. I never doubted you! But, as you said, “going forward” it would prolly be best to keep all of the fan boys at bay, maybe try the limb driven rest for complete consistency! I just want the facts compared to the bow companies hype they put out there, and your vids hold them all accountable! Thanks for that MFJJ!
Well, I planned on shooting a biscuit my entire life... and I feel even better about that decision now. Thanks
I’ve used Whisker Biscuit rests on 3 Mathews and 2 Bowtech bows over past 10 years. Tight groups 20-70 yards consistently. This test showed 226,227,227 FPS so WB more consistent than drop away rest with 5 FPS variance. Something to think about. PSE and Maxima arrows work perfect with my WB rests.
Awesome video! I’ll keep using my whisker biscuit. Never had an issue with them. A video I’d like to see is if there is an accuracy difference at different distances.
Brush style rests prolly account more millions of pounds of meat than all drop aways ever made combined
@@bradkrasowski4545 LMAO.
@@bradkrasowski4545 I wouldn't bet against that........
I believe that dropaway gives a little bit more forgiveness than any of the brush style rest at 50yards or farther , doesnt make much difference at FPS .
@@kkkzzz546 little bit. Lets look at that.. Contact the whole way, vanes flexing and twisting there way through the bristles a sloppy hole to sit in. vs no contact drop away . I can group at 50 yards within an inch with a drop away, 3-4 with a brush , add a breeze an inch turns to 2 and 4 turns to 10 . I hunt for an ethical kill fast kill, not a 2 hour search like the whisker lovers do . How many gut shot deer with a toilet brush rest, I say lots.
I've done this exact same test so many times it ain't funny and there is so little difference in the 2 rest... I install more whisker biscuit rest in my shop than any other rest combined... it's just a good solid hunting rest... Love your channel keep up the great content
I love mine. Honestly, I really like the trade off of simplicity. Reducing extra mechanical devices is my preferred method. I have never had an issue with the whisker bisket in both accuracy and taking game. But I do shoot 50 yards and in. The drop away seems to give a bit of an edge in longer ranges. Great video
Same here. If you don’t plan on trying to take game beyond 40-50yds, why not use a whisker biscuit. Great video.
Me too...I'm not an "Archer." But I have 3 bows all with the Biscuit and can shoot a tennis ball at 80 yds. on a good day with all 3...😁...Funny how he got varying degrees with the fall away TWICE, but the Biscuit was dead on!! 🤣...So for all the guys that keep saying how the fall away is better: 🤫🤐😶...😂🤣😅
Cost difference at least $100 for 1.5 fps!
@@snipersteve378 ...Ikr!! I have 3 bows all with the Biscuit and are set out to 80 yds...I can hit a tennis ball at that distance on a good day...The fall away is a waste of $$$ imho...
@@ICU2B4UDO im definitely getting a new bow this coming winter I'm going to set it up with the whisker biscuit I'm either going Matthews v3x or PSE Evo XT. My 11-year-old Evo with the code red rest has treated me good but time for an upgrade.
For hunting I think WB is king. Nothing mechanical can go wrong while on a hunt unlike a drop-away. I currently have a Hoyt and a Mathews, Hoyt had WB and Mathews has the integrate drop away. I’ve shot both for years, accuracy is the same and I’ve seen multiple tests showing only 1-2fps difference.
At this point I think it’s more of an ego thing. Drop aways are the new tech/trend and people just want to flex them.
If I had only one style rest to shoot rest of my life or to take on a LONG hunting trip it would be a WB all day. Does the same job and arguably just as efficient for a fraction of the price and is more durable. I still have a WB from 2014 that still shoots like it did new
You have a cadence about you MFJJ that I just can’t put my finger on, and I like it. I tell my hunting circle about your videos often and share your insights. I just purchased an bow vice and in the process of ordering a bow press. Your videos have boosted my confidence in this venture. Thank You.
Great video. I personally prefer the fall away rests vs a biscuit, but the performance is negligible and won’t take away from overall bow performance. 🤘🏻
The cord on the fall away rest has mass and aerodynamic drag, which mostly offsets any gains realized by removing the frictional losses from the biscuit. The upside is your arrow is held in place noise-free, ready to shoot while you're stalking.
Not worried about speed just the pain in adjusting the wisker to shoot bullet holes. Bought my power press n some other stuff off u guys 👍
Back to a whisker biscuit. Been through the break downs and headaches of drop aways. Good ones too. Important to remember: There are 3 or 4 sizes of whisker biscuit. There should be around .03 inches above the arrow for space when knocked, from arrow shaft to top of biscuit when the arrow is resting on the bottom. Don't expect your best precision if you are shooting a 6mm arrow and a large Biscuit. The gap will be huge. 6 mm should use a small.
Shot a biscuit for years now, love it. No moving parts to worry about, no clearance issues to work out, nothing attached to the cable. The only real draw back i see is the fact that your arrow is in contact with the bow a little longer making form that much more important, but I've killed many animals with no issue.
I have always wondered about the differences between a whisker and fall away rest. My buddies used to give me crap until I finally put a fall away rest on my bow and replaced my whisker biscuit. I get it and I see pros and cons of the change. I changed because of the ware and tare on my fletchings and not speed. I want to feel comfortable with my bow’s accuracy not speed. I didn’t mean to start a big debate about whisker biscuits vs fall away rest.
I shoot a drop away. It did fail on me years ago on a hunt in cold weather. The launcher did not drop. Causing a clean miss at 40 yds. Whisker biscuit never did that. I still shoot drop aways, but if i know ill be hunting the late season, i dont hesitate to switch to the biscuit. Great video. Thnx
Good video👍. I have been curious myself. Thanks.
I think the kind of arrow used and, expecially, the kind of fletching, play a big role in the speed difference.
I've little experience with biscuit style rests, but, maybe, the "Hostage" rest (I mean the one with the 3 brushes) shows even less speed difference compared to the fall away.
Why would it? The veins are still traveling thru the whiskers at the same point.
Oh...and the guy used the same arrows in the test for both rests
I'd like to see the comparison between a cable activation rest and a limb driven.
Hell, that bow was just getting warmed up like rifle on the bench. Shoot three more😉 On a serious note..set up a hooter shooter type device and do your testing to eliminate "any" human error. Just a thought if you want to get down to brass tacks. Cheers
Legend has it MFJJ came into this world with a bow in his hand & wearing that Sitka vest...
I have had these same results. What I do find interesting is how the standard deviation and extremely spread was smaller with the WB. The drop away had a greater SD and ES.
Yea, that’s a little concerning. Whisker biscuits suck in the PNW for wet late season hunts
Looking at going away from the biscuit, not for speed, but because of something you said in a fletching video about the Arizona ez fletch and vanes being taken off by the biscuit.
10 years ago I had a dropaway rest on my bow. Walking to my stand in the dark, and didn't realize I snagged my rest cord on some brush and ripped it clean out of my cable. Morning hunt was ruined. Went to a WB and never looked back.
Awesome video. The variance on the drop away rest is kind of crazy. I wonder what the whisker biscuit average would be after 6, since the drop away avg was 328.17 but had such large discrepancies between the highs and lows.
Now this is a video I’ve been waiting for
I honestly think both work fine, I just want something that is consistent all the time. For me personally the biscuit has not failed me, but I prefer the limb driven fall away.
As a whitetail hunter I prefer a whisker biscuit.... because if the weather is cold enough a fall away can lock up.... the tech at my local bow shop told me that this has happened to multiple people he knows.
A whisker biscuit is fail-proof and a more reliable rest. Also being up close and personal with white tails a whisker biscuit makes zero noise both on the draw or release. One more key is that its very difficult for your arrow to fall out of it once inside
Just make sure you store your bow inside of your house because humidity can negatively affect a whisker biscuit
What if the dew gets on the bristles and freezes🤷🏼♂️
Limb dampeners, string silencers, peeps etc all affect arrow velocity about the same. One or two fps for each item added. That's probably why your speed results are so far away from the manufacturer. Whisker biscuit, limb dampeners, string silencers and peeps add up to about four to six fps, maybe even 8 fps total, depending on the bow. You're frequently 8 to 10 fps lower than the bow manufacturer rating so it makes sense.
Good assessment by the way. Whisker biscuit or hostage rests are the only ones I use as they don't have moving parts so can't fail.
Glad you split the atoms on this one! Nuff said!
MFJJ you should take a look at the Black Eagle In Cam Timing System and let us all know what you think of it. Keep up the awesome work and love seeing what you do!
I still use a whisker biscuit here in the coastal plains of Eastern NC. Average kill shot is less than 25 yards. Very dense swamps and timber.
IMO the Whisker Biscuit is the GOAT of hunting rest.
I'm on my second season with the Trinity, so far I like it with my heavy arrow build, always tinkering, and learning💡
Far from the GOAT, its cheap , it effects the arrow, Good as a back up , that it.
Show me a fall away that doesn't run the risk of failure. The comment said the GOAT of hunting rest. How could the biscuit not be? It's no less accurate at hunting ranges, velocity loss is basically non existent, weather will not effect it, and it will not fail. To deny that is not ignorant, it's dishonest.
Great info as always. How about testing maxed out vs wound down limbs? thanks again for all the info.
Interesting real world test. Everyone is concerned with the speed but this test brings up another point-which is more consistent? That big of a spread in velocity(and was repeatable) in theory challenges the point that the drop away is the more consistent and accurate rest in the real world.
Yeah I was kind of curious about the SD and ES. Ironic the the Whisker Biscuit had a lowe SD and ES.
Video idea- difference in string building materials- Vec-99 vs the MFJJ/SVA specials and why?
awesome video. thank you for clearing the air on this debate.
Thanks for the info.. hoping to try to update and keep my bow running.
Good video - thanks for doing that. My take away is the ES (Extreme Spread) of velocity seems more consistent with the biscuit - would not have guessed that. That could mean better accuracy. In your spare time, would you do a larger sample size to confirm lower ES with biscuit....say a set of 30 each?😁
Hopefully we will see some comparison videos between the 80lb bows soon. Keep up the good work brother!
I love seeing real world testing!!! Can you test 80% vs 85% and 70lb vs 75lb? I'm curious if 75/85 is equal to 70/80.
For what its worth, bears adj. letoff, 75, 80, 85, 90% is 4fps top to bottom... 90% being slower obv. The big deal is do you want hold time, or a stable shot . . Most target bows are 50-60% hold weight iirc..
I suspect mating with a higher weight would yield some intersting results but speed comes from the draw curve. Adding a touch of draw length beyond the module profile (which is basically how it works) wont yield as much as 5lbs of draw so id bet 75lb on 85% is faster than 7080. Longer dl, more dw...
Always wondered about that.. always figured it would be more of a fps loss.. thanks for the video.. always learning something.. that’s why I watch ur videos 👍
Will you do the test again and do what most shooters do and cut away the bristles that come in contact with the fletching . The only thing you want to come in contact with the bristles is the arrows at full draw . Once the arrow is moving forward the arrow shouldn't come in contact with the bristles at all if your are in good tune and the fletching are free to pass through without making contact with the bristles . If you don't want to cut away the bristles they make a whisker biscuit that has a 3 piece bristle configuration .
i don't know anything about archery, but if you want to be consistent in the comparation speed data, you shoud shoot from same position, you shoot 30 cms at least closer to the chrony in the second set, check you back position against the background and you will agree. in the third set the speed seems to be afected by the position too
Always wondered but never tested good video solid information. I’ve always heard about 5 FPS different
A brand new biscuit will have a higher impact on drag, so if that's what you used you may want to try a well used biscuit that has channels in the bristles for the vanes to pass through with less drag. May make a slight improvement, but thanks for the video, your results were close enough for me to consider. Great job.
I’m new to shooting. But based on that test. I would think the whisker biscuit is actually the more consistent and better choice as setting up a bow and planning to do my first TAC event next year. Since if attempting the farther shots at the even like 100 yards. There would be significant drop if your sights were set when it hit 331 and then you shoot a far shot and it comes out 326 making you hit low. If I’m thinking about that correctly.
I’ve also heard (no facts) that a WB could shift the angle slightly which isn’t noticeable at 40 yards but could put the arrow off at 100 yards.
I will have a hard enough time with my own flaws, curious on this information to at least have the bow set up correctly.
I have the same chronograph and noticed you are shooting lighted nocks. From my experience especially using the strobeing nocturnal it has a tendency to affect the reading passing the sensors. Just my experience.
Correct. Hence this test is not accurate .
I have had two fall away rest fail on me. One was a ripcord the other a QAD. Both had internal spring failures and failed to drop. The Ripcord failed at the most inopportune time and it caused me to lose a big Buck.
Interesting that there was so little difference between the two. I wonder if a limb-driven rest would be different.
No. How would it?
@@AA-mk4pu limb driven rest are supposed to support the shaft for the longest period of time before dropping out of the way to clear the fletching . Limb driven rest also don’t have the bounce issues that traditional drop aways used to have “not so much any more” so I would they there is a possibility that a limb driven could present a slightly differing result
Thanks for doing this test, now I don't have to. BTW, I love my WB for simplicity sakes.
Ooh boy am I gonna rub some peoples noses in this video! I've shot a biscuit almost since they came out, simplicity at its finest(for hunting at least)
i have done the same test as well but with an arrow that was 10gr per pound of draw and had no difference what so ever between a whisker and drop away. i think the 1-2 fps lost is seam more with a lighter faster arrow being affected more with the vanes passing through then a heavier arrow.
Yes, there is more momentum with a heavier arrow. Momentum equals mass x velocity.
I could be wrong, but I wonder if the difference might be more pronounced with a hootershooter…mildly varying levels of back tension during the shot could have an impact, doubt it would be much, but maybe the hootershooter could take the human element out of the draw mechanics
Splitting hairs. You are theoretically pulling against a backwall. Therefore you are only theoretically thinking about the stretch or elasticity in the string. Considering each strand is equivalent to ~300lbs tensile strength fishing line. At 18-24 strands on average you have a combined of 6,000 lbs of tensile strength. I'm not saying it won't make a difference or that the string doesn't stretch, but what I am saying is that the precision of his chronograph wouldn't be able to accurately show the decimal differences of how much affect a human can stretch a bow string. Just my opinion though.
@@HuntsT hmm…have you played around with a chrono before? I can get a lot more out of my bow with proper back tension than I can just pulling to the cable stops and punching…perhaps my bt-mag has a softer back wall than your bow? Either way when doing science, you’re technically supposed to split hairs ;)
@@tmalonso every science or engineering practice or calculation has a set "Significant Digit" calculation that matters for the evolution at hand. So my point on the splitting hairs was that an estimated repeated change in the fraction of Foot Per Second probably plays almost zero role on the "mechanical system" of which is shooting a bow accurately at distance. There are always going to be way to many variables that you can bring up and that would result in different results if performed by another person. Meaning different D-loop material (could absorb energy especially when pulling into the backwall), string material used, # of strands in the string bundle, were they pre stretched when created, how old are the strings, coefficient of fraction between the arrow surface and the rest contact point, nock release strength from string, forward pressure or sprung energy exerted by grip upon release of arrow (if its rubber or soft in any way it will compress and then decompress away from hand and toward the target), sprung force from the meat or skin on the palm of your hand... you could continue to dissect ever thing. Which is fine. But understanding at what point will this actually make any difference in performance might help.
I plan on starting a channel soon. I hope to touch on many of the physics experiments and affects behind the various things that affect what we do when shooting a bow.
@@HuntsT you’re missing my point, I can achieve 3-5fps differences in velocity on my chrono when applying proper back tension on release instead of just holding at the back wall and punching the thumb button…I get what you’re trying to say, you think if it’s less than a fps who cares, but when it’s larger than the discrepancy produced by the whisker biscuit, it would seem statistically significant:)
@@tmalonso do you think that is because you are pushing the bow forward upon release? Thus adding to the speed of the arrow.
I would be interested in a machine shot accuracy test at longer ranges.
I've used both, I like both.
But for hunting..... whiskers are quiet, have little to go wrong ,have nevered failed me .Drop away has.
Nice ...liked this comparison 👍🏼
would like to see this repeated with a hostage style three brush rest, the full brush biscuit, and after making sure the drop away was tuned well, since it's variance was sufficiently extreme that I doubt that particular set up could group especially well.
My question is what is the difference on a lower power bow. High powered bow's produce so much energy that the biscuit does not impact speed much. What happens when you have someone that has a draw weight under 35 lbs? I would guess that impact would be greater?
you should compare the Trophy Ridge Whisker Biscuit V Max Arrow Rest
Makes one wonder if the whisker biscuit is actually the best all around rest for hunting. I'm sold on my hamskea but maybe its time for the biscuit lol
Way less noise with the Whisker biscuit
Thanks for putting that to rest, No pun intended . I had always heard there was a difference of 6 - 10 fps.. So why Fall Away ? Is it more accurate than Whisker biscuit?
Maybe that's next video
It's definitely not what I expected. What about accuracy difference up to 30 yards? Thank you for all the videos and info.
I wonder what would be the speed using a target blade rest.
Hey MFJJ! What's the best way to set up a string stop? Not touching, just touching? Thanks.
MFJJ, unrelated to this video but was wondering what your experience if any is with the trophy ridge react sights. Looking to upgrade to a higher end single pin. Any insight from you would be awesome. Keep feeding us the killer videos, they're the best out there.
Great content as always.
The only issue I had the the whisker biscuit is over time the whisker would start to shear off and and the arrow wouldn’t sit right in the rest leading to inconsistency so drop away it is
I'd love a video on how to use the electric drill with the bow press.
Could you do a bow tuning video on the Solution or any Bowtech with the cam adjustment
Could the whisker biscuit start the rotation of the arrow earlier than a drop away? Potentially giving it more accuracy due to the fletching hitting a solid substance instead of air causing earlier and probably faster rotation. If you have helix mounted fletchings that is.
Exactly right Josh. You can see this early rotation on slow motion videos that compare drop aways to WBs.
I’ll solidly say that the Whisker Biscuit was more consistent. I personally thought the difference would have been more.
We tested those arrow rests and a Bowtech arrow rest (the kind with three containment bristles). We shot a ton of arrows through three different bows and got about the same results as you. The Bowtech containment bristle rest was the same speeds as the drop away rests due to no fletching contact. Also the regular vanes averaged 1fps more through the biscut vs blazer vanes.
Stormy...I believe you're talking about a "Hostage" style rest?
thanks MFJJ the same guy commented the same BS on my tictok. i got another one for you that ive heard and never tested. " a bow will break in strings and after the first 250-350 shots will actually gain 5-7 FPS after the break-in period." next time you get a test bow into the shop dyno it raw and after 500 shots to compare the performance. ill bet there is a slight increase.
How much would a biscuit affect a helical fletched arrow?
Thanks for this. Next time do a lot more shots and just speed it up the sample size is really kind of tiny for a test. One thing that jumped out at me was the consistency of the wb compared to drop away but there was not enough shots to really see if more variance would have shown up. Anyways I like to see this kind of content
Thanks for clarifying my question!
I'll always take a whisker, just less hassle overall
Lol, I literally commented about the whole whisker biscuit vs drop away rest thing on one of your videos yesterday. I saw a guy doing some similar tests and he was seeing a much bigger difference, but he was shooting a much slower bow. It does seem strange that the drop away is so inconsistent.
Some people are saying the new pro v whisker biscuit is faster than a drop away might have to test it for my self
WB is the best hunting rest I’ve used.
But can you shoot a max helical through a biscuit?
Will u test the new hamskea rest if u get one
I had a qad fail and bought the trophy ridge V max and I shoot 80 yards with the same sight tape , VXR28
Doesn't it seem like the consistency of the Whisker Biscuit would be an advantage? At least based on that limited test.
Agreed. The biscuit was more consistent than the drop away was faster.
I've shot QAD, VT, and ripcord rests for a bunch of years...last year I slipped and fell on a bridge and ruined my QAD. I put a biscuit on and continued the season. Then I shot indoor leagues and 3d leagues with the biscuit and shot the same scores as I did with my fall aways. I also tested them over a chrono and came out with a 3 fps difference. After 25 years of hunting and shooting I honestly believe the biscuit gets a bad rap. The one key to using them? USE BLAZERS(or similar)....thats my experience anyway ....
Chris....yes, a low profile vane regardless of brand. 👍
The biscuit bad rap is basically a marketing scheme that most new comers swallow without thought... if you dont use cheap vanes ( ive shot the same arrows for years) they dont get damaged.. if i had to be critical of the two drawbacks, 2fps loss and the bristles wear out and tangle after a few years, id still say the simplicity, containment, and reliabilty out weight the cons every time... all other failures as rare as they are, are user errors... i just cant bring myself to spend 200 dollars over 50 for the same performance with a bigger potential down side...
I shot low profile feathers with slight offset 2 years through a Biscuit- they still look new.
Heat vanes through biscuit glide though like butter..... The more textured surface to the blazers has more resistance on the nylon bristles... Amazing to feel if you pull the arrows thru rest with the hand.
Now "Trophy Ridge" (same company as Whisker Biscuit) came out with the V-Maxx not to long ago, and getting better results from the V-Maxx. Arrows just slide easier through the V-Maxx for some reason. Just a thought.
Can u try the v 2 biskit I like that one and herd it's better then the older one
Great video and information
I’m interested to dive into the bigger standard deviation with the fall away. Both times there was roughly 5 FPS variance from fastest to slowest. I wonder if that would change with the fall away string tied in properly? Maybe the vanes are slightly further back on on arrow that gives complete clearance from the fall away versus the others just touching? Spitballing here, could spine have anything to do with it? Could the faster arrows spine be better aligned with the string so more energy is being put into forward momentum versus bending the arrow (which might make the other two slower). Perhaps the whisker biscuit reduces that bending of the arrow giving a tighter group?
No
I’d like to see a longer range version of this testing. 15-20 yards maybe? If there’s a 1.5-2 FPS difference coming directly off the bow at launch, what does that immediate slow in momentum do to the arrow a bit further? Just curious. Great video. Thanks for posting
Well since the arrow only gets slower after it leaves and gets to 0 ultimately the gap only shrinks.
I think bow manufacturers are measuring bow speed without the vibration dampeners. I wonder if you could compare bow speeds with and without.
I'm personally not so worried about the speed, but more about the tunability. Does the wisker biscuit interfere with getting an arrow with a broadhead to tune properly being that it is contacting the arrow while on the rest? I think thats the advantage of the fall away. It drops away so quickly, it doesn't have contact with the arrow during flight.
Josh cool vlog and thanks for clearing that scenario out between the two different arrow rests. I personally prefer the drop away rest and I like QAD a lot. Do you have any preference for a arrow rest?? Thanks buddy!!
Interesting. I figured the drop away would be around 5 fps faster. Good stuff man 👍🏽
I know a Frank the Tank! Is this Fowler?!?
@@waynestevenson9613 haha. No, sorry 😐
Hey MFJJ good video I have seen about the same. Some people care about 2 fps even though it won't matter. What are the most popular targets you sell? I have 365 Trio not really in love with it. I feel at this point all the money I have spent should of got a Matrix. Thoughts on best longest lasting targets for all around. I shoot heavy arrows and Rinehart seams to be only thing to stand up to the job but the green dots is ugh with green pin. Thanks - keep putting good videos up!
Chris O....I've only seen the Matrix once and it intrigued me. After doing a bit of research I'd be a player and give it a try. Replace only the modules that wear out and or don't catch arrows. 🤔👍
Agreed on the 365 targets I was blowing thru in less then a month 2-3 sessions a week, rotating the faces each session. Granted I was shooting an 85lb bow with 600grain arrows.
Had complete target failure at 2 months, say softball size area of the target was shredded. The cost of the replacement cores is as much as a cheap target from Cabela's. For a bit.more you can get a matrix and get 9 targets one the square and I think 6 on the hexagon shaped one.
Wish I could get the matrix here in Canada. They won't ship when I asked.
How about fall away vs. blade rest?!
1 fps faster on average with the drop away, but WAY more variance in speed. The reliability and consistency of the biscuit is very appealing. I think I'll get a whisker biscuit for my next rest.