When you have made the game your livelihood, it's kind of important. You don't have to care, but don't pretend it's an unreasonable thing for them to have concerns about.
😂 the community is too fucking sweaty💀 they always respond with "winning is fun so I play x deck where I win every game". 🤦🏾♂️ bro that means the other person by your logic can't have fun. They run from the grind and play the best deck in the game.... Then turn around and try to pretend the deck sucks. 😢 someone called branded in MD a rogue deck 🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃
@@4spooky8u How about an “A-Z” Union/Tuner suite of level 4 or lower LIGHT machine monsters that can have literal thousands of combination extra deck monsters?
Man I remember back in 2014 all the formats were praised for their deck variety. Crazy how a decade later that’s viewed as a negative aspect of a format.
@@slenderman4788 The broad gameplay of Yugioh wasn't nearly as bad as it is now and comparing relative toxicity like you're probably doing isn't actually refuting my point. Infernity could pop off in HAT if it drew the nuts and went uninterrupted. It was the outlier. Nowadays if the game runs away from you at any point you simply lose, and winning never feels like it was on an even playing field after some back and forth. Infernity, the toxic deck of the time that I'm "flattering myself" with, is what every deck plays like now. And if they don't play like that they try to make it so the opponent can't reasonably play against them in any meaningful way through floodgates or having interactions for every starter in the opponent's hand. The game itself is more toxic than it was at any point before 2018. Even the bad formats were able to be parsed and understood by players who weren't 100% entrenched. You can show someone the 2014 Jeff Jones vs. Kevin Silva grudge match and they'd understand what was happening.
We had vanitys and winda back then. Turn skipping you now we have droll and shifter. Before it was opression and macro cosmos. It is always new problems that hit the same line.
@@geek593Guess what, yugioh was always about letting the opponent play and express their abilities as little as possible. While back in the day it was random staples sacking you, nowadays at least you can reasonably expect these things to happen. The last couple years have been in fact great (after a not so great 2018 and 2020-2021) at maximizing the chance of you being able to interact with your opponent even on their turn. The game will never go back because of course power creep is a necessity to keep the game interesting. I'm not saying yugioh in 2014 was bad, I like HAT format in fact. But I also don't think I enjoy it more than I do the current formats. There will always be counterplay in different forms and at the end of the day I needed to see it back then too, with the only difference being I can draw more for turn before I lose.
Imagine being Konami trying to make archetypes more viable in the meta and the pro players cry because there's too many viable archetypes in the meta. Crazy tbh
Then Konami responds by making tier zero decks that end up costing them money because nobody wants to have to deal with a mirror match that's highly overrated Tearelament I'm looking at you
This unnecessary situation (if it even is enough to be called that) is a good example that why competitive players' opinions dont matter in general game design. If the game is fun, thats all matters at the end of the day.
This is the same for other games; countless games have tanked trying to appeal to a competitive esports crowd. It appears designers still don't understand that 99% of players liking your game is infinitely more profitable than 1%
Love "A Format for DM dedicated era" alone since their archetypes' Power Level are actually pretty balanced and most importantly.. "FUN" 🎉- Latest released Flame Swordsman, Gate Guardian, DM, Blue/Red-eyes, Toon, Gaia and even Chimera Beast and the Upcoming Yugi Slient-Gandora!!
The competitive player mindset of many games: "There's too much to prepare for, so it's bad." Players fall into predictable patterns. "It's not following a trend when I do it." Certain plays stand out. "It's not a problem." It's used against them more than they'd like. "BAN IT."
The problem is the entitlement from the more 'pro' players. They are unhappy with diverse formats cuz it makes it harder for them to win given the limited side deck. Valid argument, unfortunately, the game isn't just about them. The majority of Yu-gi-oh players are people playing their favourite deck (or a deck they like that's somewhat competitive) and try competing and pushing it as far as they can. It certainly makes it more entertaining to watch. Just see he crazy hype we had recently for the 1 guy who was playing Exodia VS meta. Everyone was rooting for the guy!
Correct! The main problem is not pro-players having their opinion, is when they mistake their opinion coming from their niche corner of the community as general for the game
Diversity makes the game fun! I generally try to equip my side to deal with the meta to a certain degree, while also being as generic as possible for most matchups or what my deck of choice struggles with the most
That's why I play mannadium doesn't lose to anything but droll so I side crossout and shifter 🤷 I pretty much 2 /0 every fire deck they aren't that good idk what all the hype is about 🦾
I normally hate when people say it, but in this case its absolutely true. If you dont like the idea of preparing for multiple different matchups in a game like this, its just an actual skill issue.
I think a diverse is healthy, 100%. On the flip side, it is nice to only have to tech for a few decks. Makes it simple to plan and strategize. It also potentially boils down to do I draw the out or not. Which is fun for one side and not the other.
I got an idea, just cut the combo pieces and play at least 15 non engine cards. More often than not, you should be drawing "the out" or at least something to fight back. Of course, if you play 30 engines pieces and like 5 handtraps with 5 Boardbreakers, that's on you.
at 5:23 i like how a buddy of mine put it. "every deck is fair every deck loses to 2 hand traps at the very least." i played 15 handtraps in my centurion list and it was beautiful watching my opponents end on a little night and i just proceeded to win and the format was diverse. plus the better your record at these events the more of the same decks your going to play.
Diverse formats encourage and reward playing the same deck for multiple formats as they really on you knowing your deck enough that you can focus on the format and how to combat other people's decks
Translation "Oh no: I won't have 1/3 chance to get into a mirror match" ... these people are weird! They should be happy there are tons of decks and archetypes to play!
I think that part of the reason why these discussions get so heated online is because there's only really one way to play competitive Yu-Gi-Oh. People are going to naturally prefer one style of format over the other and when the Advanced format shifts people who don't like the direction it's heading are going to get upset. That's why I think having more support for Time Wizard formats is a good thing. If the Advanced format is too diverse for some players, they could host an event in a more solved format like Goat for players who like that sort of thing to try. If Advanced is dominated by mirror matches, however, they could feature a less solved historical format like Yata. I think having those other avenues of competitive play would stop this sort of thing from being a sore point for a lot of players in the future
For people to fully appreciate just how good the last format was, they're going to need to be forcefully plunged into the Bonfire/Sinful Spoils/Garunix salt mines for perspective. I'm sure the next time this kind of conversation happens in 6-12 months from now, a lot more people will take a different stance.
@@mohammadmurie People defended their position with "Tear Zero was fun" and I suppose it was for the people who liked Tear mirrors at the expense of everybody else. I strongly suspect that Sinful Spoils FK mirrors with hilariously overpriced side-engines is going to be met with a far worse reception in both accessibility and actual gameplay.
@Evan20000 true even if I love the Fire aking archetype and for the start I will enjoy it but afterwards not so much and hope it doesn't become a tier 0 format because those literally are just awful to spectate
they won't. the people saying this are the hyper-competitive sweats playing those decks. They'll enjoy winning over the priced-out/lower power decks of normal players
LEDE will bring back the diversity. The new Melodious cards are some of the most fucked up pieces of legacy support ever printed. Blessing gives Voiceless Voice virtually infinite grindgame.
Bruh I was trying my luck with fire king in Dueling nexus and then i encountered this raidraptor player who went ape shit against my monsters with his revolution falcon as soon as a fire king monster i had SP summons another one he would just destroy it with an attack
A game where a tournament has many unique decks that if you manage to beat them would make the champion title seem more worth it than mirror matches. That's actually whete yugioh should go. A lot of strong decks that counter and can be countered by other meta decks sounds like a blast
You can say the same about a one deck format to a certain extent or even more so, since you were able to pilot it best (or at least better than most others). Technical play should always be rewarded most imo rather than drawing the cards you sided as a meta choice. Because let's face it, really good decks of a format will usually require some non-engine to beat (even if not always for fairly "tame" formats as right now).
@@slenderman4788 Nope. It literally comes down to luck in a mirror match. It comes down to whether you went first or second and if your deck is designed for that starting position. Cyber Dragon loves to go second, so you just scoop if you go first on round 1. Then your opponent scoops on round 2, and you're stuck going first with your CyDra deck. It literally comes down to a single Game 3 in a mirror match (it may as well be a Best of One match, then).
Its low skill when your side deck has to bail you out. Like droll on Mannadium. Nib on Salamangreat. Siding in blow out cards when you go first like Anti Spell, Skill Drain, or any flood gate. Side decking is actually pretty toxic when you consider the cards that people include in them. At the same time its needed when you face more "niche" decks like Runick were having spell removal is important. Meanwhile 8-10 decks might not have continuous or fs that need removal to be useful against to main.
@@Harmonic14 I mean relying on a side Deck card that will quite literally skip your opponent's turn if they don't have the counter to that card available instantly is pretty bad Like seriously droll is one hell of a card that's going to be in the game forever if it never gets banned 90% of the time you can't even counter it because they can do it on your very first search and I highly doubt you having a negate before your first search
I think a diverse meta is good thing for a competive tcg, but I will say that when prices for those decks are as high as they are in Yugioh it makes it harder for a player to change deck choices from event to event compared to formats with the same price per deck but few meta decks. In Pokemon TCG for example switching decks and responding to what deck just won and did well in the last event is much easier.
In my opinion, it is quite the contrary. Having fewer decks, the Demand for certain cards will outweigh the supply much more quickly, balloning the price to an outrageous extent. A diverse meta means the interest in cards is much more dispersed, making card cost equalized. Now about overpricing of the secondary cards, that's more of the Western Yu-Gi-Oh problem than a general TCG flaw itself. Even us OCG players, despite having similar price boosterpacks per card ratio to the TCG, with apparently cards of better cards stock, and apparently better foiling, all this are TCG players words not ours, are extremely baffled how you cards can go upwards of $50 or MORE. 😅
@@bryanmerel I believe TCG has a "scalper" problem. I heard some TCG players will buy tons of "possible good cards" and then resell them when it is good and everyone needs them. . Also, don't forget about "Powercreep". In limited format, Konami needs to create 1-2 crazy decks in every format. And they should be stronger and stronger than the previous META deck.
@@bryanmerel TOSS wasn't nearly as expensive as 2023. Having more decks doesn't make much of a difference unless you can find a deck no one values that doesn't need any of the generic engines.
@@renaldyhaen There are no scalpers in Yugioh. Period. Most actual stores aren't able to make money on Yugioh, what makes you think scalpers would be able to? The issue is Konami's set design causing all of the cards they know are competitively viable to be supply constricted far lower than the demand due to rarity bumps. 2.5 copies of any secret rare just doesn't add up to enough copies of a card everyone wants to meet demand. Konami knows this and does it on purpose because their products have limited value elsewhere and it means they can double dip by pumping the initial release on FOMO and sell a second wave with a reprint set that everyone else will flock to because it finally gives them easy access to cards they want. If the supply was closer to the demand for playables like in the OCG where lower rarity printings exist to bulk out supply things wouldn't be this expensive. TL;DR: Not enough copies of in-demand cards exist.
Not how it works. In unified of trinity metas all the rogue decks are very much less pricey. In diverse formats the ballooning of prices spread based on performance. The best you can do is buy a core and wait.
They complain because in a diverse format, it requires more skill, critical thinking, and card knowledge beyond just copying an already existing deck profile. They are just mad because they don't get an easy win by just side-decking in game 2 and are forced to interact and actually play the game.
I exclusively play Madolche and love the current diversity of the format. I topped the NAWCQ in 2013 with Madolche durijg Druler/Spellbook format and i get why people like 1/2 deck formats, but having it be wide open is much more fun and allows you to focus on your own strategies rather than playing solely to hard counter the meta
@@geek593wow what a strawman arguement. The 1k Fire engines cost what they cost because the NEXT format, wich is nearly here, is 100% dominated by fire. You don't NEED bonfire NOW, but in a little time it becomes necessary.
I am way more in agreement in having a side deck designed to cover your weakness over preparing against 3 exclusive decks. Like my hardest time is eradicator epidemic virus and droll and lock bird. so I would rather side deck for those. Their is more fun with winning what you like and not just copying off the internet.
When i used to play YuGiOh i never saw a format so diverse... The funny thing was to have to go to a regional when days prior a new release came out, everyone loses their mind trying to deal with that and the regional ends up being a mess, a lot of people get so annoyed at that since it opens wide the format, but never like this. I stopped playing yugioh, got bored and fed up about the mostly toxic and catfishing community (And the game being "HEY, I DONT WANT YOU TO PLAY :)") But from time to time i like watching videos about it, still getting the anime if i come across it... But hot damn, i keep lossing respect to yugioh players when they comment stupid shit like "Wrost format ever" and complain about not being able to counter every single deck out there. That's so mediocre.
The only thing I disagree with in this discussion is the chess remark: Since Arc-V, Duel Monsters to me has become "Chess in card form". And even in Chess, there are multiple ways to open, defend and mate the opponent. These pampered pro players forgot that you're supposed to build a deck to handle ANY SITUATION. 85% of the meta (I saw the stat poll of this) would rather see a top 16 with 16 different decks in it than a top 16 with just two decks. And I don't want to watch the Day 1 featured matches and each one is the same two decks. That's not skill, it's copypasta.
“diverse format is bad” is an insane take lmao. I do agree that, while there is a new test of player skill in terms of deck-building, it’s also annoying and unfun to have a shitty tourney run due to bad luck and running into your few bad matchups round after round. I do prefer more diverse formats, as they should ideally be more accessible, but certain tier 0 or 2-3 deck formats with skillful mirrors/interactions between the top decks are also just as fun imo. I will forever stand by tear mirrors being the most fun skillful play I’ve ever had in my few years of competitive
The biggest reason that I like diverse formats like this is that it reduces use of the sideboard as a "winboard". My biggest problem with the side is that people always fill it with whatever cards automatically win against the top 1 or 2 decks (like droll against mannadium for example) In a diverse format like this, you'd instead use the sideboard to cover exclusively your worst matchups (at least in theory) because there are too many decks for any auto-win cards to really work.
Phoey to players saying fhis formats bad, I absolutely love how diverse and different this format is! There's no set pay to wins, just players experimenting, and using unique strategies or even keeping up traditions of old decks! From Madolche, virtual world, chaos, to even Dark Worlds, Unchained, and FireKings...anythings possible!
People comaining that the meta is too diverse are just people who cant understand correct siding. side for your biggest weakness, stop crying. Like seriously a diverse meta is the definition of a balanced game, but people will cry about anything.
Easier tournament experience? For what? Crappy prizes? If you want easy why would you choose the most complex card game with paragraph long effects and complex mechanics? Bonkers
I play Street fighter competitively, when the meta game is dominated by 2-3 characters in a game with 30+ characters even the pros complain about it because it becomes so stale and boring. One of the final years of Street Fighter 5 the roster of characters was around 45 and every single one was tournament viable haha these yugioh pros would be losing their mind having to learn that many match ups
"I hope my 15 slot side deck blah blah..." Dude, there are THOUSANDS of different cards in the game. In a vacuum, it's ignorant to think you'll have an answer to every one of those. Just play the game.
I mean, You can have some answers, BUT You still have to play the game to capitalize in your tech. That's how people played in edison btw... You know, A BELOVED RETRO FORMAT?!
Which I say "YOU ASKED FOR THIS! Don't come to complain now". Also, this format is awful only in the TCG side of things, showing how we don't understand the problems of the game. They seriously need to deal with Link monsters in general, not stuff like linkuriboh but Link monsters as a mechanic, because it's clearly OP and is damaging extra deck.
The thing is yugioh has gotten so consistent that most meta decks play exactly the same way every game and typically just out-nonsense the decks around them. People have forgotten your deck isn't supposed to be able to counter everything. There will be matchups that are just nearly impossible. That's how card games work. It's the same people pushing for a 20 card extra/side because they can't jam enough counters in.
These example arguments reek more of selfishness and egotism than bias, CapG. They want easy wins with no variables instead of a satisfying challenge. They want Solitaire instead of Yu-Gi-Oh!
In a meta like this, the problem isn't the meta. And the real problem is one that will never be solved with a new release or a banlist. The problem is the fact that a significant enough percentage of the player base will always find something wrong with the meta. This will remain true even if we one day had the healthiest, most fun and most stable meta game in Yu-Gi-Oh history.
but the complaint about diverse format always comes from those pro players, doesnt matter how they say it but the fact is they just want an auto win by side ing a silver bullet in their side deck, of course those people prefer activating d barrier againts fusion deck rather than learning when to interupt their opponents play.
People who don't want diversity are people who don't actually like playing the game. They are people who like winning. The side card argument does highlight that there's issues with how narrow answers need to be in the current yugioh design space.
"Too many decks" is a sentiment held by people who care more about winning than having fun. When you can't prep for every eventuality 100%, you either enjoy the gamesmanship or you get mad that you have to gamble and take risks (in a card game of all things). Having fun enjoyers vindicated once again. Glad the current meta is favoring that
Another thing about diverse formats is that they lower the barrier to entry. The more centralized a format becomes the more expensive the top deck becomes and the less viable older decks that people have already bought into become. You could buy into something relatively cheap like Swordsoul or Traptrix once and be capable of topping at least regional level events for a couple years without much additional investment...unless they get pushed out by an overcentralized meta. Most people can't drop several hundred dollars on new cards every time a new meta deck drops.
People who complain about the meta that is not diverse don't want to think to hard about the decks they might fight against. They're not there to have a good time, they're there to auto roll their deck on to the table 9 times and leave. Anyone who plays like that to me is just in it for money (prize support) and nothing more. I for one love that the game has become this diverse. I love facing so many different decks and strategies. It really feels like you can choose a deck that best represents you as a person and your play style. When the game was not diverse like this, I left because of how stale it got. every player was playing the same 3 decks and seeing it over and over and over again for weeks felt so boring. But now, people are coming up with crazy plays. I came back officially this year and I saw an Amazoness deck do well at my locals. AMAZONESS!! I gave up trying to make that deck work a long time ago, but this kid made them work. Not a top deck by any means but he had them going good enough to put up a fight and make the low end of the cut. And its stuff like that that I love to see!! Finding linchpin cards that make a bad deck a good one. A diverse format bring innovation.
Agree big time. These supposed "skilled competitive" players sure hate it when there is no cookie cutter answer. Maybe they should shift their "skill" from side decking and net decking to trying to judge and guess the best deck of them all for the given format. One that has the most favorable and least unfavorable match-ups against the diversity they have to face.
Having room to prepare isn't necessarily asking for a cookie cutter answer. Modern decks are so powerful in such specific ways that if you don't have a silver bullet you probably lose that matchup. You only have so many tech and side deck slots.
@@geek593 and there a bunch of overlapping cards and theres decks that are clearly the better options of a format. Example should a decks like prankkids sky striker or soul sword expect to be able to face all the meta decks and side well, without Diminishings its Strategy even if we currently have 4 big decks? Some decks will naturally be out paced if your only concern is always having an advantage play the best deck, and side cards that hit general stuff, and covers weakness its not that hard. But you may have to wait for the meta sorts itself out. You cant expect to know the answers before we dont seriously play
@@geek593 Yeah yet some dude will pull it off time and time again because they adapt instead of whine and ask for an easy to pick selection of I-win cards.
@@TemporalDelusion Jesse Kotton got his wins mostly by being the best at summoning Abyss Dweller. Watch some actual YCS win VODs and tell me they weren't winning off the back of their deck building and silver bullets carrying them to victory. You can put the worst deck in the best player's hands and they will lose 100% of the time.
the thing I find kind of hypocritical about the "pro" players complaining about diverse format is when they make the format even more diverse by introducing a deck no one thought about bringing to a tournament. we've had 2 examples of this last format: 1st with Jesse kotton, pak and friends topping/winning events with Unchained (which is funny because those 2 complain the most about diverse formats on their twitter and videos) and 2nd with Joshua with his runick bystial synchro strategy. I just feel they
Diversity seems a lot more fun than "I shall play with the meta and only the meta and nothing but the meta forever because victory is the only thing that matters and duels that last for more than 2 turns due to a lack of boards full of omni-negates or space blockers are too long and boring anyway." Diversity is fun, and Yugioh should be fun above anything else, as it is a *game* and games exist to be fun. That's literally the entire point of the concept of a game.
It comes down to a few things, but one of the main reasons I think are that the following skills have been lost thanks to power creep and the very non diverse formats we have had for so long now. Skills such as: - Building a deck to have a generically good match up across the board (doesnt mean it has to win, but can at least hold it's own against other decks) - Reading and understanding your opponent. - Finally (and most importantly) the ability to make snap decisions based on whats in front of you. If you look at the formats we had for the past few years, up until ariseheart got banned, there was either 1-3 top decks (tear/spiral/zoo/rocks/sky strikers/thunder/dark warrior/fire wall/kashtira/etc.) or every deck was essentially doing the same thing, just some were better at it than others (based/kitchen sink/halq dot deck etc). Those formats were never diverse, and the so called diverse formats (halq dot deck formats) were what I would call psuedo diverse formats, i.e. many decks, but they all do the same thing and lose to the same cards. Its why many pros struggle (and hate) the current (and previous) format. Its not that they arent skilled players, its just that these types of formats (diverse) require a different skillset to what they have/have become used to, so they can find it frustrating because they have to essentially start over from scratch to develop these different skills for these truly diverse formats. Most of the formats we have had over the past 5 or so years have heavily favoured/rewarded skilled technical play and intricate matchup knowledge/preparation, whereas highly diverse formats rewards broader game knowledge/understanding and flexibility.
Side decking is actually important because if this is a two out of three match-up. Then they have to remember what cards they have to put in it for counter playing them, especially if they remembered the opponent's deck/playstyle are.
There's a difference between knowing what to side deck and throwing autowin buttons against specific matches then complaining when you can't do the latter.
There are a lot of dumb yugioh arguments, but this has to be the dumbest. And it just solidify the idea that Yugioh players dont want fun. The duality and appeal of yugioh is how wild and unrestricted the game's mechanics are, why confine it to only 4 decks.
@@unbeatable750 If you want to prepare play as many games as possible, see the vast array of what people are playing, study. Preparation itself is not the same thing as a guarantee win.
@@unbeatable750Dude stop with that bs, people still prepare effectivly. Its not about preparing itself because you still can do it. Its them upset its harder for them to do so. Thats compeltly different from being able to also new formats are usually like this we arent a month in
I don't understand how people can say a wide diverse meta is bad for the game. Thats wild to me. It shows the game is healthy. On top of that not boring at all to watch or play.
its funny cause he even made a vid on the state on comp yugi content on youtube crying about everyone else why he is the biggest reason it got to this state. ( telling everyone bs so he can take a deck that perectly counters those strats and win). so for cas people its hard, top people know very good whats the best decks are, but as he said it best it all comes down to side deck. Ans this is also why its funny when they prepare all for top tier decks and in the end its get topped by branded despia pile locking you.. Or my fav the pile decks that are fun to pilot, but also fun to verse casue you never know what he has up hes sleeve, vs decks you can easy predict. but the only true tollbox deck we have rn is spright,and its variations.
This Argument just proves that the most hardcore meda players are not actually that good at the game they are just only able to deal with one or two decks at a time. lol
This is the problem with Most Yugioh players they love to complain more than solve problems and honestly usually the more decks you see the better the game is it's funny how everyone rightfully complained about it not being diverse enough a couple of years ago now it's too diverse damn y'all can't make up your minds
Imagine if Yu-Gi-Oh anime has a series where everyone, the protagonist, antagonist, and even side characters run the same deck. It would get stale so fast that you would have quit watching before the episode is already over.
The only question I have if it is a legitimately diverse format or one that just looks diverse. A truely diverse format means that every deck has its own playstyle and strategies. A format that just looks diverse is where there are many different decks in play, but they all end on the same board.
Its yugioh, most decks have the illusion of being different while everyone makes the same boards with the same goal. Make sure you're opponent CANT play the game back asap. BUTT to my knowledge they've. Even doing a good job at making decks feel less the same recently
Funnily enough that hasn't really been a thing in a while. Most of not all of these decks have different endboards that actually are part of their archetypes or it's an endboard only they can really get to.
Konami literally officially encorages diversity in the format (yes, for sales, but still) , and it takes much more skill to get consistency in a diverse format than memorizing the choke points of 1 or 2 decks and siding a bunch of blowouts or floodgates. I call skill issue (not saying i'm better, i'm an unchained traptrix dinomorphia labrynth player and blowouts is the whole point of the deck). Pro players seem to think they run this game, but clearly konami has other ideas. Now let me play my jank.
"Diverse format is unhealthy because I cannot prepare the right (auto-win) card in my side-deck." . YGO players are "spoiled" by the "silver bullet" in their side deck. . If people really want a BO3 with different cards. I prefer BO3 but with completely 3 different decks, like in Master Duel World. We have dozens of thousands of cards and maybe hundreds of archetypes. So, this will be more interesting to see diverse decks in the top cut. Talking about skills, of course, mastering 3 decks is more skillful than 1. Also, this needs a good deck building because each deck should have its own strengths and weaknesses to help each other.
So I was watching old episodes of community which has Johnathan Banks (who played Mike) as a reoccurring character in its later seasons. The character was not only played by the same actor as Mike but also was a former police officer. I just wondered if there was a What If, you could come up with where Mike becomes a teacher at Greendale Community Collage, only to leave and head to New Mexico for better call saul events.
I 100% agree with what you said also one thing you didnt touch on but every single yugioh players bitches that certain cards are hundreds of dollars well the only reason they are so expensive is because of the demand for the 1 -6 meta decks. But if you have say 20 decks that are tourney viable the price in cards drop as the demand would not be as strict. I have about 20 ppl in my group chat that we all run completely different decks and theyre all good in there own right and its alot more fun to play different variations of decks than to play the same exact 2 card combo 400 times in a row.
My only issue with a diverse format is that I have no idea what to play because a lot of decks I love are viable, I understand the frustration from a competitive YGO, but ygo is alive because of casuals an people who love the game more than anything, also I think the same about side deck it needs to be a generic tool to help, and not a 1 turn skip It looks like Konami thinks the same, the last few archetypes released are more focus on disruption and interaction more than an Omni or unbreakable board
Whenever I would ask other players what formats were their favorite: the answers I ended up getting were fairly standard: GOAT, Edison, HAT, TOSS. I don't have anything during these formats, even if I only played during one of them. But when I gave my answer, the apparently *infamous* March 2012 format, they immediately feel the need to have me explain. My answer was simple, the format allowed for so many different strategies to show up to a tournament and do well. Yes, you had the heavy hitters like Dino Rabbit, Wind-Up, Inzektors and Chaos Dragons. However, you had a bunch of other smaller contenders that could do well. Examples include: Dark World, Hieratics, Gishki, Infernity, Gravekeeper. It kept the format fresh, and even the matchups between the top contender decks were skillfull, since boards weren't flooded with omni-negates and the other major forms of interaction we have now, you had to know how far you could extend while still holding something back for the eventual crackback. Overextending was even more disastrous back then even than now. Back when I started, I thought the format was cool because I enjoyed Chaos Dragons, which was the deck I played at the time. After the hiatus that occurred over TOSS format (I was in the military and was very difficult to keep up with the game or even find people to play with.) I figured out that why I enjoyed the format was 3 fold, it has a special place in my heart as it was the start of my competitive YGO journey, it had my favorite deck of all time (this more or less defines the decks I normally play, as they are usually heavy resource management style decks), and the format just allowed for a large number of strategies for a properly diverse format.
It's better with more decks than just the 1000$+ I would have to spend JUST to play and get a top.. ppl are mad cuz they can't just put in a side deck card to sweep the other, now you gotta actually use your brain to figure out what you gotta do in order to win against different decks in the format. It's more fun compared to playing the same 3 decks over and over. Doesn't make sense
I always thought the most diverse format would be the heathiest. I thought we were all imagining ourselves as the villain of the week with our weird themed decks.
I think the diverse meta encourages versatility over "unbreakable boards." If your deck can't handle niche and strange matchups as well as the more meta matchups, it's not as good as you think it is. Or maybe you're not as creative a player as you think you are. A big part of the modern game is determining what are the pieces building to your opponents wincon, and which interruptions will stop it. So even in a bad matchup, if your deck had no answers at all there's a higher likelihood your deck isn't as good as you think it is.
I'm happy with diverse metas. It's why I like playing master duel (besides Maxx c) because you never know what you'll come across. Sure sometimes you can tech your deck, but often it's just who plays better and who decks flows better (and who doesn't negate Maxx c). If tcg wasn't so expensive and time limited I would do it but I have no clue how to even join the scene and dropping over $100 is too much but I do like how diverse the meta can be and it's great to see. Much better than the Ocg being dominated by 3 decks at the moment due to a certain bug crushing the format itselr
The metagame isn't too diverse. I hate all the decks in the meta equally.
Well play em. Maybe you’ll have fun then.
....Basically the entire Albaz & Visas cards
The reasons "top players" don't like diverse formats is because winning is all they care about, and a diverse format means a lower win rate.
forreal, they perpare only for the top 2 meta decks, its inconcievable that someone plays anything else, they cant handle that!
@@Sretiwanting to win so much that you want the format to favor 5 or less decks to the point of invalidating all others *is* bad. Very bad, in fact
When you have made the game your livelihood, it's kind of important. You don't have to care, but don't pretend it's an unreasonable thing for them to have concerns about.
And harder work for that lower win rate.
😂 the community is too fucking sweaty💀 they always respond with "winning is fun so I play x deck where I win every game". 🤦🏾♂️ bro that means the other person by your logic can't have fun. They run from the grind and play the best deck in the game.... Then turn around and try to pretend the deck sucks. 😢 someone called branded in MD a rogue deck 🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃
Not liking variety is wild. It puts your deck building ability to the test. Non engine is important and it has always been important in Yu-Gi-Oh.
Just wait until Gemini, Flip, and Union monsters get enough support to make them meta viable en masse.
I do think Flip monsters can get a good support to make them meta viable. They could have link mosnters that works like verte does
Abc union support please
@@4spooky8u
How about an “A-Z” Union/Tuner suite of level 4 or lower LIGHT machine monsters that can have literal thousands of combination extra deck monsters?
I mean Spirit monsters are getting support so they about to be sick soon.
@@casualtheeduelist but verte and union carrier got banned. Unfortunately I see any actual good support going the same way.
Man I remember back in 2014 all the formats were praised for their deck variety. Crazy how a decade later that’s viewed as a negative aspect of a format.
The gameplay wasn't as toxic back then.
@@geek593 Every format's meta had "toxic" elements, whether it be staples or engine. Don't flatter yourself.
@@slenderman4788 The broad gameplay of Yugioh wasn't nearly as bad as it is now and comparing relative toxicity like you're probably doing isn't actually refuting my point. Infernity could pop off in HAT if it drew the nuts and went uninterrupted. It was the outlier. Nowadays if the game runs away from you at any point you simply lose, and winning never feels like it was on an even playing field after some back and forth. Infernity, the toxic deck of the time that I'm "flattering myself" with, is what every deck plays like now. And if they don't play like that they try to make it so the opponent can't reasonably play against them in any meaningful way through floodgates or having interactions for every starter in the opponent's hand.
The game itself is more toxic than it was at any point before 2018. Even the bad formats were able to be parsed and understood by players who weren't 100% entrenched. You can show someone the 2014 Jeff Jones vs. Kevin Silva grudge match and they'd understand what was happening.
We had vanitys and winda back then. Turn skipping you now we have droll and shifter. Before it was opression and macro cosmos.
It is always new problems that hit the same line.
@@geek593Guess what, yugioh was always about letting the opponent play and express their abilities as little as possible. While back in the day it was random staples sacking you, nowadays at least you can reasonably expect these things to happen. The last couple years have been in fact great (after a not so great 2018 and 2020-2021) at maximizing the chance of you being able to interact with your opponent even on their turn. The game will never go back because of course power creep is a necessity to keep the game interesting. I'm not saying yugioh in 2014 was bad, I like HAT format in fact. But I also don't think I enjoy it more than I do the current formats. There will always be counterplay in different forms and at the end of the day I needed to see it back then too, with the only difference being I can draw more for turn before I lose.
Imagine being Konami trying to make archetypes more viable in the meta and the pro players cry because there's too many viable archetypes in the meta.
Crazy tbh
Then Konami responds by making tier zero decks that end up costing them money because nobody wants to have to deal with a mirror match that's highly overrated
Tearelament I'm looking at you
ariseheart ban really brought out the annoying people huh
This unnecessary situation (if it even is enough to be called that) is a good example that why competitive players' opinions dont matter in general game design. If the game is fun, thats all matters at the end of the day.
And the game isn't fun even for competitive players who are able to power through bad gameplay since their fun is achieving their goals.
You should see how competitive Fortnite players act.
This is the same for other games; countless games have tanked trying to appeal to a competitive esports crowd. It appears designers still don't understand that 99% of players liking your game is infinitely more profitable than 1%
Yu-Gi-Oh should be fun above all else. Having a new matchup every duel makes the game more fun. This is not hard to wrap your head around.
"B-b-but muh side HAS to target exactly 3 decks"
Love "A Format for DM dedicated era" alone since their archetypes' Power Level are actually pretty balanced and most importantly.. "FUN" 🎉- Latest released Flame Swordsman, Gate Guardian, DM, Blue/Red-eyes, Toon, Gaia and even Chimera Beast and the Upcoming Yugi Slient-Gandora!!
Remember we are dealing with the most spoiled, entitled, and lazy card game players on the planet: Yugioh Players.
Freaking Pak top player bitched about divverse yugioh being bad. Pathetic that top players ruin the game.
It should have fun gameplay that also rewards skill.
The competitive player mindset of many games:
"There's too much to prepare for, so it's bad."
Players fall into predictable patterns.
"It's not following a trend when I do it."
Certain plays stand out.
"It's not a problem."
It's used against them more than they'd like.
"BAN IT."
The problem is the entitlement from the more 'pro' players. They are unhappy with diverse formats cuz it makes it harder for them to win given the limited side deck. Valid argument, unfortunately, the game isn't just about them.
The majority of Yu-gi-oh players are people playing their favourite deck (or a deck they like that's somewhat competitive) and try competing and pushing it as far as they can.
It certainly makes it more entertaining to watch. Just see he crazy hype we had recently for the 1 guy who was playing Exodia VS meta. Everyone was rooting for the guy!
Exactly
I could not have said it better myself 👏
Correct! The main problem is not pro-players having their opinion, is when they mistake their opinion coming from their niche corner of the community as general for the game
Fully agree!
These “pro players” are the same players who think tier 0 decks are healthy for the game.
Diversity makes the game fun! I generally try to equip my side to deal with the meta to a certain degree, while also being as generic as possible for most matchups or what my deck of choice struggles with the most
I play competitive and i like diversity. Makes it more spicy. Pros dont like it, but the game shouldnt be revolving around them.
That's why I play mannadium doesn't lose to anything but droll so I side crossout and shifter 🤷 I pretty much 2 /0 every fire deck they aren't that good idk what all the hype is about 🦾
I normally hate when people say it, but in this case its absolutely true. If you dont like the idea of preparing for multiple different matchups in a game like this, its just an actual skill issue.
This is your most cogent pushback against this stupid POV. Great take.
Variety is GOOD
There's nothing more miserable and boring than going to an event and seeing the same deck over and over and over again.
I think a diverse is healthy, 100%. On the flip side, it is nice to only have to tech for a few decks. Makes it simple to plan and strategize. It also potentially boils down to do I draw the out or not. Which is fun for one side and not the other.
I got an idea, just cut the combo pieces and play at least 15 non engine cards. More often than not, you should be drawing "the out" or at least something to fight back. Of course, if you play 30 engines pieces and like 5 handtraps with 5 Boardbreakers, that's on you.
You don’t think diversity is healthy for the game you 100% know it’s healthy for the game.
at 5:23 i like how a buddy of mine put it. "every deck is fair every deck loses to 2 hand traps at the very least." i played 15 handtraps in my centurion list and it was beautiful watching my opponents end on a little night and i just proceeded to win and the format was diverse. plus the better your record at these events the more of the same decks your going to play.
Diverse formats encourage and reward playing the same deck for multiple formats as they really on you knowing your deck enough that you can focus on the format and how to combat other people's decks
Translation "Oh no: I won't have 1/3 chance to get into a mirror match" ... these people are weird! They should be happy there are tons of decks and archetypes to play!
But then how are they supposed to face-roll everyone else?
To be clear, I am mocking those people.
I think that part of the reason why these discussions get so heated online is because there's only really one way to play competitive Yu-Gi-Oh. People are going to naturally prefer one style of format over the other and when the Advanced format shifts people who don't like the direction it's heading are going to get upset. That's why I think having more support for Time Wizard formats is a good thing. If the Advanced format is too diverse for some players, they could host an event in a more solved format like Goat for players who like that sort of thing to try. If Advanced is dominated by mirror matches, however, they could feature a less solved historical format like Yata. I think having those other avenues of competitive play would stop this sort of thing from being a sore point for a lot of players in the future
For people to fully appreciate just how good the last format was, they're going to need to be forcefully plunged into the Bonfire/Sinful Spoils/Garunix salt mines for perspective. I'm sure the next time this kind of conversation happens in 6-12 months from now, a lot more people will take a different stance.
I doubt that because we literally just got out of tear 0 format a few months back and people are complaining about a diverse format in
@@mohammadmurie People defended their position with "Tear Zero was fun" and I suppose it was for the people who liked Tear mirrors at the expense of everybody else. I strongly suspect that Sinful Spoils FK mirrors with hilariously overpriced side-engines is going to be met with a far worse reception in both accessibility and actual gameplay.
@Evan20000 true even if I love the Fire aking archetype and for the start I will enjoy it but afterwards not so much and hope it doesn't become a tier 0 format because those literally are just awful to spectate
they won't. the people saying this are the hyper-competitive sweats playing those decks. They'll enjoy winning over the priced-out/lower power decks of normal players
We're gonna get an all FIRE format soon. Im enjoying the short lived diversity for now ❤
Don't worry. A certain "buird" has the meta in check.
LEDE will bring back the diversity. The new Melodious cards are some of the most fucked up pieces of legacy support ever printed. Blessing gives Voiceless Voice virtually infinite grindgame.
Bruh I was trying my luck with fire king in Dueling nexus and then i encountered this raidraptor player who went ape shit against my monsters with his revolution falcon as soon as a fire king monster i had SP summons another one he would just destroy it with an attack
In a format like this, I just counter for strategies that auto-win against my strategy. That’s why generic staples exist
A game where a tournament has many unique decks that if you manage to beat them would make the champion title seem more worth it than mirror matches.
That's actually whete yugioh should go. A lot of strong decks that counter and can be countered by other meta decks sounds like a blast
You can say the same about a one deck format to a certain extent or even more so, since you were able to pilot it best (or at least better than most others). Technical play should always be rewarded most imo rather than drawing the cards you sided as a meta choice. Because let's face it, really good decks of a format will usually require some non-engine to beat (even if not always for fairly "tame" formats as right now).
@@slenderman4788 Nope. It literally comes down to luck in a mirror match. It comes down to whether you went first or second and if your deck is designed for that starting position. Cyber Dragon loves to go second, so you just scoop if you go first on round 1. Then your opponent scoops on round 2, and you're stuck going first with your CyDra deck. It literally comes down to a single Game 3 in a mirror match (it may as well be a Best of One match, then).
@@Entinu94 *some mirror matches are very impacted by die roll, but a lot of them are, in fact, not.
Its low skill when your side deck has to bail you out.
Like droll on Mannadium.
Nib on Salamangreat.
Siding in blow out cards when you go first like Anti Spell, Skill Drain, or any flood gate.
Side decking is actually pretty toxic when you consider the cards that people include in them.
At the same time its needed when you face more "niche" decks like Runick were having spell removal is important.
Meanwhile 8-10 decks might not have continuous or fs that need removal to be useful against to main.
Holy cope
You are garbage at the game for real my goodness.
@@Harmonic14 I mean relying on a side Deck card that will quite literally skip your opponent's turn if they don't have the counter to that card available instantly is pretty bad
Like seriously droll is one hell of a card that's going to be in the game forever if it never gets banned
90% of the time you can't even counter it because they can do it on your very first search and I highly doubt you having a negate before your first search
I think a diverse meta is good thing for a competive tcg, but I will say that when prices for those decks are as high as they are in Yugioh it makes it harder for a player to change deck choices from event to event compared to formats with the same price per deck but few meta decks. In Pokemon TCG for example switching decks and responding to what deck just won and did well in the last event is much easier.
In my opinion, it is quite the contrary. Having fewer decks, the Demand for certain cards will outweigh the supply much more quickly, balloning the price to an outrageous extent. A diverse meta means the interest in cards is much more dispersed, making card cost equalized. Now about overpricing of the secondary cards, that's more of the Western Yu-Gi-Oh problem than a general TCG flaw itself. Even us OCG players, despite having similar price boosterpacks per card ratio to the TCG, with apparently cards of better cards stock, and apparently better foiling, all this are TCG players words not ours, are extremely baffled how you cards can go upwards of $50 or MORE. 😅
@@bryanmerel I believe TCG has a "scalper" problem. I heard some TCG players will buy tons of "possible good cards" and then resell them when it is good and everyone needs them.
.
Also, don't forget about "Powercreep". In limited format, Konami needs to create 1-2 crazy decks in every format. And they should be stronger and stronger than the previous META deck.
@@bryanmerel TOSS wasn't nearly as expensive as 2023. Having more decks doesn't make much of a difference unless you can find a deck no one values that doesn't need any of the generic engines.
@@renaldyhaen There are no scalpers in Yugioh. Period. Most actual stores aren't able to make money on Yugioh, what makes you think scalpers would be able to? The issue is Konami's set design causing all of the cards they know are competitively viable to be supply constricted far lower than the demand due to rarity bumps. 2.5 copies of any secret rare just doesn't add up to enough copies of a card everyone wants to meet demand. Konami knows this and does it on purpose because their products have limited value elsewhere and it means they can double dip by pumping the initial release on FOMO and sell a second wave with a reprint set that everyone else will flock to because it finally gives them easy access to cards they want. If the supply was closer to the demand for playables like in the OCG where lower rarity printings exist to bulk out supply things wouldn't be this expensive.
TL;DR: Not enough copies of in-demand cards exist.
Not how it works. In unified of trinity metas all the rogue decks are very much less pricey. In diverse formats the ballooning of prices spread based on performance. The best you can do is buy a core and wait.
They complain because in a diverse format, it requires more skill, critical thinking, and card knowledge beyond just copying an already existing deck profile. They are just mad because they don't get an easy win by just side-decking in game 2 and are forced to interact and actually play the game.
I exclusively play Madolche and love the current diversity of the format. I topped the NAWCQ in 2013 with Madolche durijg Druler/Spellbook format and i get why people like 1/2 deck formats, but having it be wide open is much more fun and allows you to focus on your own strategies rather than playing solely to hard counter the meta
People who hate diverse formats just want their cards to be expensive and they need to stop lying to justify it.
Diversity means cheap cards. That's why this 20 deck format has $1000 Fire cores.
@@geek593wow what a strawman arguement. The 1k Fire engines cost what they cost because the NEXT format, wich is nearly here, is 100% dominated by fire. You don't NEED bonfire NOW, but in a little time it becomes necessary.
I am way more in agreement in having a side deck designed to cover your weakness over preparing against 3 exclusive decks. Like my hardest time is eradicator epidemic virus and droll and lock bird. so I would rather side deck for those. Their is more fun with winning what you like and not just copying off the internet.
2024 here. Post PHNI .. now people are complaining the meta is not diverse enough
When i used to play YuGiOh i never saw a format so diverse... The funny thing was to have to go to a regional when days prior a new release came out, everyone loses their mind trying to deal with that and the regional ends up being a mess, a lot of people get so annoyed at that since it opens wide the format, but never like this.
I stopped playing yugioh, got bored and fed up about the mostly toxic and catfishing community (And the game being "HEY, I DONT WANT YOU TO PLAY :)")
But from time to time i like watching videos about it, still getting the anime if i come across it... But hot damn, i keep lossing respect to yugioh players when they comment stupid shit like "Wrost format ever" and complain about not being able to counter every single deck out there. That's so mediocre.
"The great thing about this game is that almost everything is legal and we don't rotate cards! Also, there are too many different cards being played!"
The only thing I disagree with in this discussion is the chess remark: Since Arc-V, Duel Monsters to me has become "Chess in card form". And even in Chess, there are multiple ways to open, defend and mate the opponent. These pampered pro players forgot that you're supposed to build a deck to handle ANY SITUATION. 85% of the meta (I saw the stat poll of this) would rather see a top 16 with 16 different decks in it than a top 16 with just two decks.
And I don't want to watch the Day 1 featured matches and each one is the same two decks. That's not skill, it's copypasta.
“diverse format is bad” is an insane take lmao. I do agree that, while there is a new test of player skill in terms of deck-building, it’s also annoying and unfun to have a shitty tourney run due to bad luck and running into your few bad matchups round after round. I do prefer more diverse formats, as they should ideally be more accessible, but certain tier 0 or 2-3 deck formats with skillful mirrors/interactions between the top decks are also just as fun imo. I will forever stand by tear mirrors being the most fun skillful play I’ve ever had in my few years of competitive
Wouldn't a more diverse meta be a good thing? I mean the game will get less stale.
The biggest reason that I like diverse formats like this is that it reduces use of the sideboard as a "winboard". My biggest problem with the side is that people always fill it with whatever cards automatically win against the top 1 or 2 decks (like droll against mannadium for example) In a diverse format like this, you'd instead use the sideboard to cover exclusively your worst matchups (at least in theory) because there are too many decks for any auto-win cards to really work.
Top Players: Wah! There's too many decks to side against!
Everyone Else: Adapt!!!
Top players: *still winning events in wide formats*
@@Harmonic14 Still looses to *Unknown decks* such as *Runic Bystials*
@@LowellLucasJr.I can tell you’re a casual player if you think runic bystials is an unusual deck
@@hangfire5944 Clearly you can't read if you confuse *unknown* with *unusual* .
@@LowellLucasJr. Must be a pro player.
The biggest problem with a diverse metagame is that you have to actually read the cards because everyone isn't playing the same deck anymore.
I see this as an absolute win.
Every deck should have a chance to win not just a handful of deck some people can't afford the top tier deck but still want to play competitively
Dude I genuinely can't wait till we hear the next episode when the fire Nation attacks.... They will all be begging for a diverse format. 😂😂😂
You called it!!!
Phoey to players saying fhis formats bad, I absolutely love how diverse and different this format is! There's no set pay to wins, just players experimenting, and using unique strategies or even keeping up traditions of old decks! From Madolche, virtual world, chaos, to even Dark Worlds, Unchained, and FireKings...anythings possible!
The barbeque chicken line LOL
"Too many people are having fun and I'm taking it personally" Jokes aside, I do enjoy playing meta and I appreciate both kinds of formats
"Pro" players mad there are more than 2 decks in the game
People comaining that the meta is too diverse are just people who cant understand correct siding.
side for your biggest weakness, stop crying.
Like seriously a diverse meta is the definition of a balanced game, but people will cry about anything.
Easier tournament experience? For what? Crappy prizes? If you want easy why would you choose the most complex card game with paragraph long effects and complex mechanics? Bonkers
I play Street fighter competitively, when the meta game is dominated by 2-3 characters in a game with 30+ characters even the pros complain about it because it becomes so stale and boring. One of the final years of Street Fighter 5 the roster of characters was around 45 and every single one was tournament viable haha these yugioh pros would be losing their mind having to learn that many match ups
"I hope my 15 slot side deck blah blah..."
Dude, there are THOUSANDS of different cards in the game. In a vacuum, it's ignorant to think you'll have an answer to every one of those. Just play the game.
I mean, You can have some answers, BUT You still have to play the game to capitalize in your tech. That's how people played in edison btw... You know, A BELOVED RETRO FORMAT?!
4-5 months later this video hits even harder.....
But of course, pros 🙄 cry *"tOo MaNY deCkS"*
Which I say "YOU ASKED FOR THIS! Don't come to complain now". Also, this format is awful only in the TCG side of things, showing how we don't understand the problems of the game.
They seriously need to deal with Link monsters in general, not stuff like linkuriboh but Link monsters as a mechanic, because it's clearly OP and is damaging extra deck.
The thing is yugioh has gotten so consistent that most meta decks play exactly the same way every game and typically just out-nonsense the decks around them. People have forgotten your deck isn't supposed to be able to counter everything. There will be matchups that are just nearly impossible. That's how card games work. It's the same people pushing for a 20 card extra/side because they can't jam enough counters in.
These example arguments reek more of selfishness and egotism than bias, CapG. They want easy wins with no variables instead of a satisfying challenge. They want Solitaire instead of Yu-Gi-Oh!
In a meta like this, the problem isn't the meta. And the real problem is one that will never be solved with a new release or a banlist.
The problem is the fact that a significant enough percentage of the player base will always find something wrong with the meta. This will remain true even if we one day had the healthiest, most fun and most stable meta game in Yu-Gi-Oh history.
To summarize your point:
You can't please everyone. There will always be a complainer.
I hope people play this as a retro format honestly, so much to figure out
but the complaint about diverse format always comes from those pro players, doesnt matter how they say it but the fact is they just want an auto win by side ing a silver bullet in their side deck, of course those people prefer activating d barrier againts fusion deck rather than learning when to interupt their opponents play.
People actually complain about diverse decks being prevalent?
Yikes. Toxicity among us nerds continues.
People who don't want diversity are people who don't actually like playing the game. They are people who like winning. The side card argument does highlight that there's issues with how narrow answers need to be in the current yugioh design space.
"Too many decks" is a sentiment held by people who care more about winning than having fun. When you can't prep for every eventuality 100%, you either enjoy the gamesmanship or you get mad that you have to gamble and take risks (in a card game of all things). Having fun enjoyers vindicated once again. Glad the current meta is favoring that
Are we going to have a GG vs CapG on stream
Another thing about diverse formats is that they lower the barrier to entry. The more centralized a format becomes the more expensive the top deck becomes and the less viable older decks that people have already bought into become. You could buy into something relatively cheap like Swordsoul or Traptrix once and be capable of topping at least regional level events for a couple years without much additional investment...unless they get pushed out by an overcentralized meta. Most people can't drop several hundred dollars on new cards every time a new meta deck drops.
People who complain about the meta that is not diverse don't want to think to hard about the decks they might fight against. They're not there to have a good time, they're there to auto roll their deck on to the table 9 times and leave. Anyone who plays like that to me is just in it for money (prize support) and nothing more. I for one love that the game has become this diverse. I love facing so many different decks and strategies. It really feels like you can choose a deck that best represents you as a person and your play style. When the game was not diverse like this, I left because of how stale it got. every player was playing the same 3 decks and seeing it over and over and over again for weeks felt so boring. But now, people are coming up with crazy plays. I came back officially this year and I saw an Amazoness deck do well at my locals. AMAZONESS!! I gave up trying to make that deck work a long time ago, but this kid made them work. Not a top deck by any means but he had them going good enough to put up a fight and make the low end of the cut. And its stuff like that that I love to see!! Finding linchpin cards that make a bad deck a good one. A diverse format bring innovation.
Tier 0 Formats haven't been skilled since Dragon Rulers lol.
Agree big time. These supposed "skilled competitive" players sure hate it when there is no cookie cutter answer.
Maybe they should shift their "skill" from side decking and net decking to trying to judge and guess the best deck of them all for the given format.
One that has the most favorable and least unfavorable match-ups against the diversity they have to face.
This take by pak was one of the dumbest ever,.
Having room to prepare isn't necessarily asking for a cookie cutter answer. Modern decks are so powerful in such specific ways that if you don't have a silver bullet you probably lose that matchup. You only have so many tech and side deck slots.
@@geek593 and there a bunch of overlapping cards and theres decks that are clearly the better options of a format.
Example should a decks like prankkids sky striker or soul sword expect to be able to face all the meta decks and side well, without Diminishings its Strategy even if we currently have 4 big decks?
Some decks will naturally be out paced if your only concern is always having an advantage play the best deck, and side cards that hit general stuff, and covers weakness its not that hard.
But you may have to wait for the meta sorts itself out. You cant expect to know the answers before we dont seriously play
@@geek593 Yeah yet some dude will pull it off time and time again because they adapt instead of whine and ask for an easy to pick selection of I-win cards.
@@TemporalDelusion Jesse Kotton got his wins mostly by being the best at summoning Abyss Dweller. Watch some actual YCS win VODs and tell me they weren't winning off the back of their deck building and silver bullets carrying them to victory. You can put the worst deck in the best player's hands and they will lose 100% of the time.
the thing I find kind of hypocritical about the "pro" players complaining about diverse format is when they make the format even more diverse by introducing a deck no one thought about bringing to a tournament. we've had 2 examples of this last format: 1st with Jesse kotton, pak and friends topping/winning events with Unchained (which is funny because those 2 complain the most about diverse formats on their twitter and videos) and 2nd with Joshua with his runick bystial synchro strategy. I just feel they
Diversity seems a lot more fun than "I shall play with the meta and only the meta and nothing but the meta forever because victory is the only thing that matters and duels that last for more than 2 turns due to a lack of boards full of omni-negates or space blockers are too long and boring anyway." Diversity is fun, and Yugioh should be fun above anything else, as it is a *game* and games exist to be fun. That's literally the entire point of the concept of a game.
It comes down to a few things, but one of the main reasons I think are that the following skills have been lost thanks to power creep and the very non diverse formats we have had for so long now. Skills such as:
- Building a deck to have a generically good match up across the board (doesnt mean it has to win, but can at least hold it's own against other decks)
- Reading and understanding your opponent.
- Finally (and most importantly) the ability to make snap decisions based on whats in front of you.
If you look at the formats we had for the past few years, up until ariseheart got banned, there was either 1-3 top decks (tear/spiral/zoo/rocks/sky strikers/thunder/dark warrior/fire wall/kashtira/etc.) or every deck was essentially doing the same thing, just some were better at it than others (based/kitchen sink/halq dot deck etc).
Those formats were never diverse, and the so called diverse formats (halq dot deck formats) were what I would call psuedo diverse formats, i.e. many decks, but they all do the same thing and lose to the same cards.
Its why many pros struggle (and hate) the current (and previous) format. Its not that they arent skilled players, its just that these types of formats (diverse) require a different skillset to what they have/have become used to, so they can find it frustrating because they have to essentially start over from scratch to develop these different skills for these truly diverse formats.
Most of the formats we have had over the past 5 or so years have heavily favoured/rewarded skilled technical play and intricate matchup knowledge/preparation, whereas highly diverse formats rewards broader game knowledge/understanding and flexibility.
Thank god it's diverse. Seeing the same 2-3 decks all the time gets old fast
More diverse is better....
Side decking is actually important because if this is a two out of three match-up.
Then they have to remember what cards they have to put in it for counter playing them, especially if they remembered the opponent's deck/playstyle are.
There's a difference between knowing what to side deck and throwing autowin buttons against specific matches then complaining when you can't do the latter.
Pokemon TCG has a wide open format right now too and that makes it so much fun. Honestly Pokemon is more fun than yugioh right now...
Every TCG is more fun than Yugioh right now. Shadowverse Evolve and One Piece are so fun I'm starting to not care about Yugioh anymore.
There are a lot of dumb yugioh arguments, but this has to be the dumbest. And it just solidify the idea that Yugioh players dont want fun. The duality and appeal of yugioh is how wild and unrestricted the game's mechanics are, why confine it to only 4 decks.
For you, other people like being able to somewhat adequately prepare for big events
@@unbeatable750 If you want to prepare play as many games as possible, see the vast array of what people are playing, study. Preparation itself is not the same thing as a guarantee win.
@@unbeatable750Dude stop with that bs, people still prepare effectivly. Its not about preparing itself because you still can do it.
Its them upset its harder for them to do so.
Thats compeltly different from being able to also new formats are usually like this we arent a month in
@@darryljack6612 that's not viable when there's more "good" decks in a format than there are rounds in a regional or YCS
@@darryljack6612 it's not a guaranteed win people want, is the ability to atleast prepare for most decks
" tHe mEtAgAmE iS tOo dIvErSe" What tf is whole point of the banlist then? goshdamn these people just lazy
I don't understand how people can say a wide diverse meta is bad for the game. Thats wild to me. It shows the game is healthy. On top of that not boring at all to watch or play.
Funniest part joshua is one of the people crying about it too!!!!! Lmao
Good player but god it feels like someone's taking a cheese grater to my ear whenever I have to listen to some of his takes.
@@Honest_Mids_Masher 💯 couldn't say it better myself
its funny cause he even made a vid on the state on comp yugi content on youtube crying about everyone else why he is the biggest reason it got to this state. ( telling everyone bs so he can take a deck that perectly counters those strats and win). so for cas people its hard, top people know very good whats the best decks are, but as he said it best it all comes down to side deck. Ans this is also why its funny when they prepare all for top tier decks and in the end its get topped by branded despia pile locking you.. Or my fav the pile decks that are fun to pilot, but also fun to verse casue you never know what he has up hes sleeve, vs decks you can easy predict. but the only true tollbox deck we have rn is spright,and its variations.
Oh no, why does not everyone play the 3 same 300$ decks...
It is good to me when you have multiples options including more budget ones
300$ is generous the ballpark is closer to 700-1000$
This Argument just proves that the most hardcore meda players are not actually that good at the game they are just only able to deal with one or two decks at a time. lol
This is the problem with Most Yugioh players they love to complain more than solve problems and honestly usually the more decks you see the better the game is it's funny how everyone rightfully complained about it not being diverse enough a couple of years ago now it's too diverse damn y'all can't make up your minds
diverse formats are the best because they enhance versatility
Fuck yeah! Diversity formats were peak when I played!
aka i dont like not knowing what my opponent might play. whatever happend to adapting
I don't wanna 😂 XD
....So basically, " *S K I L L E D* " players are having skill issues
In situations like this, I am glad that Konami doesn't listen to their playerbase, 90% of the time.
MAAAAN this meta-game is beautiful, I love this much variety🙏
Imagine if Yu-Gi-Oh anime has a series where everyone, the protagonist, antagonist, and even side characters run the same deck. It would get stale so fast that you would have quit watching before the episode is already over.
Imagine worrying about a 15-card side-deck when you have 40-60 cards to prepare for a tournament..
The only question I have if it is a legitimately diverse format or one that just looks diverse. A truely diverse format means that every deck has its own playstyle and strategies. A format that just looks diverse is where there are many different decks in play, but they all end on the same board.
Its yugioh, most decks have the illusion of being different while everyone makes the same boards with the same goal.
Make sure you're opponent CANT play the game back asap.
BUTT to my knowledge they've. Even doing a good job at making decks feel less the same recently
Funnily enough that hasn't really been a thing in a while. Most of not all of these decks have different endboards that actually are part of their archetypes or it's an endboard only they can really get to.
The biggest problem Yu-Gi-Oh! has is there's not NEARLY enough waifu decks.
MegaCapG just throwing haymakers, hell yeah! Cry about it Pak
Edit: Trish didn’t deserve that
The more the merrier!
Konami literally officially encorages diversity in the format (yes, for sales, but still) , and it takes much more skill to get consistency in a diverse format than memorizing the choke points of 1 or 2 decks and siding a bunch of blowouts or floodgates. I call skill issue (not saying i'm better, i'm an unchained traptrix dinomorphia labrynth player and blowouts is the whole point of the deck). Pro players seem to think they run this game, but clearly konami has other ideas. Now let me play my jank.
"Diverse format is unhealthy because I cannot prepare the right (auto-win) card in my side-deck."
.
YGO players are "spoiled" by the "silver bullet" in their side deck.
.
If people really want a BO3 with different cards. I prefer BO3 but with completely 3 different decks, like in Master Duel World. We have dozens of thousands of cards and maybe hundreds of archetypes. So, this will be more interesting to see diverse decks in the top cut. Talking about skills, of course, mastering 3 decks is more skillful than 1. Also, this needs a good deck building because each deck should have its own strengths and weaknesses to help each other.
So I was watching old episodes of community which has Johnathan Banks (who played Mike) as a reoccurring character in its later seasons. The character was not only played by the same actor as Mike but also was a former police officer.
I just wondered if there was a What If, you could come up with where Mike becomes a teacher at Greendale Community Collage, only to leave and head to New Mexico for better call saul events.
I 100% agree with what you said also one thing you didnt touch on but every single yugioh players bitches that certain cards are hundreds of dollars well the only reason they are so expensive is because of the demand for the 1 -6 meta decks. But if you have say 20 decks that are tourney viable the price in cards drop as the demand would not be as strict. I have about 20 ppl in my group chat that we all run completely different decks and theyre all good in there own right and its alot more fun to play different variations of decks than to play the same exact 2 card combo 400 times in a row.
My only issue with a diverse format is that I have no idea what to play because a lot of decks I love are viable,
I understand the frustration from a competitive YGO, but ygo is alive because of casuals an people who love the game more than anything, also I think the same about side deck it needs to be a generic tool to help, and not a 1 turn skip
It looks like Konami thinks the same, the last few archetypes released are more focus on disruption and interaction more than an Omni or unbreakable board
Whenever I would ask other players what formats were their favorite: the answers I ended up getting were fairly standard: GOAT, Edison, HAT, TOSS. I don't have anything during these formats, even if I only played during one of them.
But when I gave my answer, the apparently *infamous* March 2012 format, they immediately feel the need to have me explain.
My answer was simple, the format allowed for so many different strategies to show up to a tournament and do well.
Yes, you had the heavy hitters like Dino Rabbit, Wind-Up, Inzektors and Chaos Dragons. However, you had a bunch of other smaller contenders that could do well. Examples include: Dark World, Hieratics, Gishki, Infernity, Gravekeeper. It kept the format fresh, and even the matchups between the top contender decks were skillfull, since boards weren't flooded with omni-negates and the other major forms of interaction we have now, you had to know how far you could extend while still holding something back for the eventual crackback. Overextending was even more disastrous back then even than now.
Back when I started, I thought the format was cool because I enjoyed Chaos Dragons, which was the deck I played at the time. After the hiatus that occurred over TOSS format (I was in the military and was very difficult to keep up with the game or even find people to play with.) I figured out that why I enjoyed the format was 3 fold, it has a special place in my heart as it was the start of my competitive YGO journey, it had my favorite deck of all time (this more or less defines the decks I normally play, as they are usually heavy resource management style decks), and the format just allowed for a large number of strategies for a properly diverse format.
It's better with more decks than just the 1000$+ I would have to spend JUST to play and get a top.. ppl are mad cuz they can't just put in a side deck card to sweep the other, now you gotta actually use your brain to figure out what you gotta do in order to win against different decks in the format. It's more fun compared to playing the same 3 decks over and over. Doesn't make sense
2:15 props on what I can only assume was your best “Elon Musk with a head cold” impersonation
I always thought the most diverse format would be the heathiest. I thought we were all imagining ourselves as the villain of the week with our weird themed decks.
I think the diverse meta encourages versatility over "unbreakable boards." If your deck can't handle niche and strange matchups as well as the more meta matchups, it's not as good as you think it is. Or maybe you're not as creative a player as you think you are. A big part of the modern game is determining what are the pieces building to your opponents wincon, and which interruptions will stop it. So even in a bad matchup, if your deck had no answers at all there's a higher likelihood your deck isn't as good as you think it is.
*laugh in Vanguard top 8 being 7 different decks*
I'm happy with diverse metas. It's why I like playing master duel (besides Maxx c) because you never know what you'll come across. Sure sometimes you can tech your deck, but often it's just who plays better and who decks flows better (and who doesn't negate Maxx c).
If tcg wasn't so expensive and time limited I would do it but I have no clue how to even join the scene and dropping over $100 is too much but I do like how diverse the meta can be and it's great to see. Much better than the Ocg being dominated by 3 decks at the moment due to a certain bug crushing the format itselr
rarity collection and ebay solves that issue.