This is so confusing to me. I am very liberal and left but I was in uni about 10 years ago so things have really changed. A classroom is not a safe space, it's for learning, and part of learning things like history is to confront harmful ideologies and stereotypes from the past. The only way we can learn more about things we fundamentally believe is to hear opposing arguments that force us to confront our own beliefs, challenge them, change them or strengthen our convictions and come up with new ways to defend them. I feel like we are overstating the harm that is done by learning. And learning is almost always done while engaged in a constructive dialog, not through memorization of a lecture of stated facts.
I always voted blue but the pandering to these far left goofy people who don't live in reality or have any basic sense of economics is really pushing me away from supporting anymore. They are pandering to these "woke" people the same way the right has been pandering to their trump style voters.
THAT’S exactly what my undergrad and Master’s programs were about! Education is meant to challenge our dearly held beliefs, expose us to new ideas and broaden our thinking, not coddle us and swoon us in cotton wool - life is brutal and diverse.
I wonder if you have all the facts. You’re hearing one side. Listen to the last 2 min of the action student statements. Then ask if the story is more about conflict that went wrong.
@@michaelchangaris1632 Fair point. Did PBS ask one of the students or representative of the students to participate in this interview? I have no problem agreeing that, society-wide, across the spectrum of ages, we are segregated into silos and recoil at having to listen to opposing views to our own detriment. But, if one is black (or non-white) there is a known history of "confusing and misnaming black students" in the classroom. Black people KNOW THIS. If he did it repeatedly, he should know that isn't something to take lightly. There's more to this story.
Speaking as someone who's taught undergraduate philosophy classes for decades, I've had similar experiences with students on the left and on the right. Some don't want better reasoning skills or an informed opinion. Instead, they want to crush anyone who says something that they don't like.
@@neilreynolds3858 then there are the objectively factual who are neutral but characterized as verbally violent when they introduce information contrary to the currently held delusions
An educator- yes, more than just a professor. An educator's job is never easy, and the amount of disrespect these young students showed for a teacher who has infinitely more knowledge and experience than they do and is doing his best to actually give them something useful is appalling. Also the TA's role in this I find extremely disturbing. She should have been dismissed and never hired back again. The admin of Telluride come off as cowards. There is such a thing as truth and honesty, and this sort of behavior is the opposite of that. One of my favorite classes in college (UC Berkeley) was a 5-person seminar on the history of the start of WWII, and we had to work really really hard on the readings and compositions, and in the seminar had to respond to his questions and defend our own arguments. The teacher never gave his own opinions, but inspired us and challenged us to actually think. I had a great time and learned so much not just about Germany, Hitler and so on but about how to read, how to study, how to write, and how to participate in a challenging seminar. The prof was a postdoc who never got tenure as there were no jobs in History at the time, and apparently went off to write sports columns, a huge loss for the U.
I had this problem at first with my 7th graders just trying to get them to practice creating a thesis statement for a position they didn't agree with. We pushed through, I stood firm. With my 8th graders I asked them, using two carefully crafted thesis, where they stood on the morality of propaganda as a messaging tool. Based on their answer I assigned them to do research to argue the opposing position to the one they took. 8th graders okay, not pushing back, understanding that I was helping them become better debaters by understanding opposing points of view.
@@lopezb here here, how dare this TA think they knew more than the professor about the course and the process. Unless he is asking them to engage in something unethical, immoral, illegal, or bigoted, step down please and attempt to learn something.
‘Harmed’? They have been irreparably harmed already by being taught that their petulant fetishes carry absoute moral weight. Lost and beyond therapy, they are then given authority over their teacher, guaranteeing no actual education can occur. God help them when they need to actually deal with the world.
@@shawnaweesner3759 I have been referring to these young people, who are essentially running society now, as the Children of the Corn. WOKE is a gigantic cult, or mass movement. Many decades ago, kids and young people were told to shut up if they got out of line. Today, they are held up as a group of people who should put "their lived experience" above all else. It's partly our own fault. We adults who raised these kids, and social media, are largely to blame for this atrocious condition. I see no way out. It's utterly chilling. I'm a liberal who is considered by these people to be a Right-winger--me, a guy who voted twice for Obama, and twice against the Orange Tornado. Why the hell would I support the WOKE in any way? Why the hell would I ever vote Dem again--at least until they come back to earth. And it's not at all encouraging that the Right has gone off the rails. Who does someone in the middle vote for these days? I feel utterly hopeless.
@@lonzo61 To vote Democrat is NOT to vote for this insane trend of hyper offended youth. It comes form the Humanities faculties of universities and it has few advocates in actual Democratic circles. University administrators who built their careers on this poison need to go.
As a side note, this sounds like an INCREDIBLE teacher. I am jealous of those who got to learn from him. What a creative, intensive, challenging curriculum with a tons of hands on learning. Here is a teacher who encourages his students to think and also teaches concepts and lessons in a very memorable, hands on, extremely creative way.
@@Sarah-re7cg While I’m sure the meaning of your comment is probably obvious to you, I have tried to figure out exactly what you might be referring to and the variety of potential meanings I can find from it are so varied I have finally determined I personally am incapable of safely interpreting what point is being made, so I will merely say yes, I watched it all the way to the end and even just rewatched it to the end, and based on what I meant when I typed the comment and the way I read my original comment I still believe my comment stands as written.
@@ivancampbell8123 When exactly are you talking about that race wasn’t discussed in American High Schools? It was certainly discussed when I was in High School. I know it was discussed when my parents were in High School. I know it was discussed when my grandparents were in High School. Where on earth did you get the idea that it wasn’t discussed?
This reminds me a lot of the Chinese Cultural Revolution and also McCarthyism. Thoughts and ideas became the enemy even when the same people were allied just months earlier.
Or even more aptly the early days/dawn of the Soviet Union. Many thought at the time that it was going to be true democracy(aka radical democracy as the professor mentioned), where all the people including the workers and disenfranchised would have a say. Those who quickly released this was not the case and left Russia to speak out against what was happening found themselves of course silenced, called traitors, etc etc... Thus starts one of the most if not the most insane and destructive mass capture of state in history. Only to be later challenged for the crown by Nazi'ism and then eventually superseded(it seems), by Mao's Cultural Revolution for the sheer number of people eliminated.
It’s not at all like that it’s racially illiterate kids being affected by adults political nonsense and we’re never educated on their country so you have this not fucking Mao and Stalin
"The problem is not that Johnny can't read. The problem isn't even that Johnny can't think. The problem is Johnny doesn't know what thinking is; he confuses it with feelings." Thomas Sowell
I can see this happening all the time in different forums. Even a leftist who is not racist is being called a racist. Mistakes are not forgiven, people are bullied (some members take screenshots and repost after every thread) and honestly people move further away by wondering whether it even makes sense to care. Once my expertise was questioned by people who know nothing about what I do and how much effort I put into ensuring there's no discriminate treatment or impact in the procedures we create. I think it's the right thing to do, so I won't stop doing that. But I certainly care less about those who communicate their superiority or treat other races and other experiences as lesser than their own.
@@MJMilano7 merit doesn't exist under capitalism, capitalism is inherently exploitive, and therefore, yes, because racism exists and is systemic, racism exists in capitalism. Tons of white people are poor and exploited, but far more people of color are poor and exploited, proportionally.
While this case involves a unique educational context involving 16-17 years old students, I recently experienced a very similar situation teaching an online graduate level course at a major university. As a retired professor I have the option to never again engage with this emerging classroom culture again -- but I feel sorry for those dedicated teachers who have to deal with the new reality.
@Melvin Dubnick, What the professor and those students outside of the mob suffered is termed *'Narcissistic Mobbing'.* In his case, it would be specifically termed *'Workplace Mobbing'.* Please read the response I've left for Professor Lloyd, above, for a lengthy, further educational response. Thank you. 🙋🏽♀️
I think that unfortunately it is not reality at all. It is a sick twisted fantasy created by the existence of white supremacy that has deeply poisoned 🤢 too many. It’s incredibly disturbing. How is it that the language that was created by this same group is now somehow a source of harm?🫥😐🫣😯🫤😧😮🥴😮💨🫢
@@OakleyANDSittingBull When bullying is disguised as righteousness, it's so sinister. Teens can know the evil pleasure just as well as adults in religious garb.
The problem is current educators are themselves underachievers and angry at the system. They project this anger to the kids. I am a seasoned professional that started a second career as a teacher. I chose to not purse teaching because I did not believe I could survive in a work environment dominated by low achievers that rely on a socialist system to raise to the top. Please remember the teachers unions are the epitome of the socialist system. I chose to not teach. I argue that we will find the root cause of woke in the teachers unions, the schools, and the people they produce. The solution will be found by getting rid of teachers unions, increasing teacher salaries and tying teacher salaries to long term performance. (Percentage of students that finish the NEXT year, parental involvement, and achievement scores). If kids screw off, expell the kids and send their parents a bill for the education lost.
I think the idea of silencing ideas that make you uncomfortable is a really bad tactic and self defeating in the long run. Then again I am old and the world has changed in very unpredictable ways.
Are you ok with the Governor of Florida blocking hundreds of books, banning AP Black Studies and banning certain words and phrases from being spoken in class?
@@erinh9267 Did he try to silence his students? Or, was he trying to keep with the lesson plan in the face of students wanting to direct how the class be taught.
Thanks for coming forward Dr.Lloyd. Former telluride resident here, and want to say you’re not crazy. That institution has always been cultish and incoherent in its values and leadership. I’m sorry they didn’t intervene, but not surprised. The blind leading the blind.
This problem of low tolerance - i.e., the notion that being simply exposed to certain lines of thought or certain language is somehow harming the listener - is certainly an outgrowth of our current online and social media culture. Maybe what the Universities should do is require a preliminary class on critical thinking before taking this kind of seminar. Perhaps two required prelim classes - include one on skills for in-person academic discussion.
Not sure that a pre-class would help the young people in this situation or those like them. They don’t want to hear things they don’t like, see things they don’t like, do things they don’t like … they need to just retreat to their homes and stay there in their perfect environment because they are completely un equipped to work with the real world.
Reading period literature is as important as reading history books. Without a literate society history is forgotten and the citizenry becomes unable to identify when history is going to repeat ahead of time as they’ll have no references in their collective memories.
Thank you so much for sharing. I grew up going to Hidden Villa Summer Camp. Historically it is the first multi-cultural summer camp in the nation (previously, only white children were allowed to go to summer camp everywhere in the country). They also allowed Cesar Chavez and the UFW to organize, as well as Japanese during wwii. They have a long history of sustainability and social justice, working on an organic farm setting and having kids put down electronics and work together to heal the land. Last summer.. this new school of thought basically destroyed the entire Summer Camp program, by claiming that they were extremely harmed by an old buddhist honeymoon gift that had religious symbology on it that was mistaken for nazi symbology. They wouldn't listen to the adults, who told them that this was mistaken. Instead, they said the adults were being racist by not listening to them, and the harm the tile was creating. The younger staff created such a fuss that the admin decided to remove this beautiful tile gift from where it was literally inlaid into an historic building.. but even though they removed the tiles.. it was too late to satisfy their tantrum.. they still all quit en masse just before the summer camp was about to begin.. they did not think of the parents of children who had scheduled their summers months ahead of time, and how they were ruining many people's lives with this decision. They did not stop to think and listen to the adults, who told them that this is not a nazi symbol. They only acted off of their hurt feelings, that were completely mistaken in this instance. The staff who quit went on to interview with a local paper, and only talked about the tiles... but then went online after and started saying there was 'racism on a structural level.' why not tell the news reporter that? the place that allowed japanese, native americans, mexican farm workers etc to organize over the decades has structural racism? I know of the people on the board, they include Indian heritage, asian heritage, mixed anglo heritage, gay/straight etc etc. When I was growing up, the camp director was a black man and he was great fun. The place is basically a model of how to be the most inclusive and forward thinking as possible. But still.. this place was destroyed and slandered across social media as being racist and harmful! this is so crazy. I am from the bay area and went to UCSC and I have a large mixed family of people from all backgrounds, and I cannot get on board with this new way of thinking. It's absolute garbage. Grow up!
@Dan Lake, I understand the frustration. However, the focus on naysaying against the *needed, evolved level* of the *social consciousness raising* of the 1960s, via *active sensitivity,* termed *'woke'* in African-American Lexicon (formerly termed *'Ebonics')* is off-point here considering *all else* occuring and at stake. Please, choose to *become more educated* on the *definition and LONG HISTORY of it* via listening to or screening the brief video essay by *Then and Now* on *'Woke'* / *'Wokeism'* [ v=fw4dUbbVxSc&t=492s ] here, at TH-cam. What's *far more important* is the *experience* of Professor Lloyd. What he suffered is *NARCISSISTIC MOBBING;* 'workplace mobbing', 'academic mobbing' in his case -- *that* is the *main issue* here. The ACTION, EXPERIENCE, what he went through, the WAY the children went about delivering *their mobbed, extreme thinking, expectations, demands and dictated takeover of the course.* The *experience* has *traumatised* him. *Please, FOCUS on the experience* rather than victim-blaming the children because of their over-the-top N.P.D.-encouraged thinking and wording. We can and *will deal* with their hyper-wounded, reactive, narcissistic personality disordered (N.P.D.) thinking and wording also, but *later, please.* We all need to *understand* what *pathological narcissism* (N.P.D.) is and has been permitted to cause children and everyone else *NOW* because it's spreading by the hour, by the day, especially when the governments/social media creators/parents/educators *tolerated(!),* eight, organised, *androsupremacist misogynist terrorist gangs/cults* of the *'Red Pill' a.k.a. 'Manosphere,'* have been *permitted* to seduce/recruit/groom/reprogramme children, youths, teens and young men especially. The *caucasoid supremacist* gang recruiters are doing the same. Huge crossover. The gang/cult leaders are actually suggesting or even dictating their mostly young followers *intentionally become Dark Triad or Cluster-B personality disordered abusers!* *THIS* is the most important issue here.
You were throwing out those races and ethnicities like fastballs. Then BAM!!! A BLACK MAN, HE WAS FUN!!!! Really? Out of all of that ........... 7 words?
@@angelaschrade5679 i'm sorry what? the place has made it a point to be inclusive since well before inclusivity was a trendy cultural talking point online between 2 warring sides. I don't think I focused on asians, whites, or black people really any more or less than any other group of people.. He was the Director.. like the role with the most responsibility and leadership.. as in.. very well respected and an integral part of the camp.. and yes, he was lots of fun. don't know what the beef is there. cheers
Part of the problem is that the 16- and 17-year-olds were not mature enough to be treated as college students. College students themselves are young and silly in their own, slightly more mature way. My wife teaches at a VERY liberal college, and there are sometimes very awkward interactions between students that she has to mediate. But almost all the undergrads can be brought to a position of accepting that everyone in the class is well-intentioned, and all are learning and growing.
My university is in a liberal state has a diverse population. There are protests with some violence and criminal destruction whenever a right-wing speaker is invited. Ironically, the most extreme protesters are often white.
They go to literally a year and half later at age 18. 2 years not going to change their intelligence that much especially if they're not trying to challenge themselves
Anyone who’s been teaching at the uni level since 2015 has had the same sort of experience from students. They have grown up online, where debates lack vocal inflection, body language and facial expressions. They’ve deduced from the upset they experience with online debates that language is violence. Once you’ve accepted that idea, real world in person debate is doomed.
Those students have to emerge from a public or private school experience that went on for roughly 12 years. (I know they're often hooked on their digital media the rest of the day.) So what is happening, or not happening, in K-12 education that fails to prepare students for thoughtful, challenging discourse? What can be done to raise awareness within students about their limited understanding, engagement and critical thinking skills? I didn't learn much from this video about either the nature of the problem or the pathway to success in a new pedagogy.
Wear a blue haired wig and start the speech with a song by Q Lazarus "Goodbye Horses". That should give you some shielding. Hell they'll probably be even more confused when the speech is over.
I wonder if maybe all the "positive education" parenting trends where parents both over-protect their kids, expose them only to joy and pleasure and no frustration to "make them happy", and are demanding and high-achieving and pressure the kids to succeed since all obstacles have been brought down in front of them, is a reason why the younger generation is less tolerant of even the notion of contradiction existing and having the right to be expressed.
I am a racial minority woman professor. I have the same experience. Students in 2016 or before would not behave like students now or at least I have not seen it. Before, students understood one has to learn different perspectives and use reasons to work things out. Many students nowadays feel they are so entitled or morally so correct that they can demand their professors to not say things they don’t like to hear. They know they can complain and get the professors fired quite easily. Bec the majority of university administration will not dare to defend the professors. Even in this program you said the administration asked this professor to meet the students’ need. The more honest request I believe should be the administration wanted the professor to give in to what the students like.
@JLAU L, I do understand the frustration. However, naysaying against the *needed, evolved level* of the *social consciousness raising* of the 1960s, via *active sensitivity,* termed *'woke'* in African-American Lexicon (formerly termed *'Ebonics')* -- please, choose to *become more educated* on the *definition and LONG HISTORY of it* via listening to or screening the brief video essay by *Then and Now* on *'Woke'* / *'Wokeism'* [ v=fw4dUbbVxSc&t=492s ] here, at TH-cam. What's *far more important* is the *experience* of Professor Lloyd. What he suffered is *NARCISSISTIC MOBBING;* 'workplace mobbing', 'academic mobbing' in his case -- *that* is the *main issue* here. The ACTION, EXPERIENCE, what he went through, the WAY the children went about delivering *their mobbed, extreme thinking, expectations, demands and dictated takeover of the course.* The *experience* has *traumatised* him. *Please, FOCUS on the experience* rather than victim-blaming the children because of their over-the-top N.P.D.-encouraged thinking and wording. We can and *will deal* with their hyper-wounded, reactive, narcissistic personality disordered (N.P.D.) thinking and wording also, but *later, please.* We all need to *understand* what *pathological narcissism* (N.P.D.) is and has been *permitted by adults* to cause children and everyone else *NOW* because it's spreading by the hour, by the day, especially when the governments/social media and video game creators/parents/educators *tolerated(!),* eight, organised, *androsupremacist misogynist terrorist gangs/cults* of the *'Red Pill' a.k.a. 'Manosphere,'* have been *permitted* to seduce/recruit/groom/reprogramme children, youths, teens and young men especially. The *caucasoid supremacist* gang recruiters are doing the same. Huge crossover. The gang/cult leaders are actually suggesting or even dictating their mostly young followers *intentionally become Dark Triad or Cluster-B personality disordered abusers!* *THIS* is the most important issue here.
@@albirtarsha5370 Students are paying? They don't have that kind of money at 18 unless their parents are rich but you're right - the schools pay homage to the people who pay the bills. Follow the money.
😂😂😂 this is laughable considering the fact that real medical professionals have expressed ignorance regarding the pain threshold of Black patients. Those who believe a Black patient’s pain threshold is higher or skin is somehow thicker, are less inclined to provide appropriate treatment/meds, and assume Black people are med seeking. But the opioid epidemic is elsewhere.
As a life long active self identified anti racist, I am so not surprised. I’ve been in 2 situations when people much younger than I am have hurled incentives and accusations at me. Once around issues of race (when I questioned in an employment DEI training)a proposition that one is born racist, and another instance when I challenged the notion ( as a mental health professional serving marginalized people) that ANYONE is born into a WRONG body. I overnight became a racist, a misogynistic, a transphobe. Etc. I have been effectively silenced. Which is the point. It is bullying in the name of social justice. Which is gaslighting. It is not about justice. It is about being right. Extremely frightening. PS. Props to Telluride for the responsive word salad!
I'm not an educator, but I have been on the Left my life. Where I fell on the spectrum has varied somewhat, but I was much further left than where I am now--and it's because of WOKE ideology. It took me years to understand what is happening culturally and politically in the US (and abroad) since Donald Trump came into prominence as a political figure in the spring and summer of 2016. I was horrified by what I saw, and spent much time reading and worrying and watching discussions by intellectuals on youtube. And it was only by around 2020, when WOKE came fully into bloom, that I really knew this was related to Trump's rise-- and it was something I had to better understand. And having achieved that through many hours of watching discussions about culture, the WOKE phenomenon, politics, and peripheral issues, it became clear to me that WOKE was itself a cult. I had personal experience in a cult thirty plus years ago, so I saw the signs. I saw the co-opting of worthy ideas that the WOKE movement completely corrupted. And now, even though I am still a liberal, I am so angry about what this mass movement is doing to society--even as it means well, that I knew I could not remain where I was. So, I swung towards the middle over the past five to six years, and now am just as likely to get into heated discussion with Leftys and those on the Right. It's a bitch being in the middle these days. I use the Yahoo comments section to challenge WOKE articles or opinion pieces, and I do so in a way that is hardly like some right-winger would do. Yet, people just excoriate me and call me a conservative and a Trumpster and FOX News viewer. And keep in mind, the AI that Yahoo uses is calibrated to detect anything that is remotely offensive, in order to keep discussions civil. So if many of these people had the chance, I know what they would actually call me. Actually, some have called me a racist. They don't even know me. Imagine, someone who never watches FOX News, except on rare occasions to get a different perspective, and someone who listened to NPR for 25 years and financially supported them (I stopped both in early '21 because I was no longer able to tolerate their grossly slanted, WOKE infected, news "reporting"), and one who generally supported all the things that WOKE purports to improve. It's astonishing. It's so bad that I decided I won't vote Democrat for POTUS in '24. I have voted for Dems for POTUS nearly every election cycle over decades. I'm disgusted by WOKE, and I am fed up with the Dem Party. I cannot even say I was ever a Dem, per se. I sometimes voted Repub. I have never been a joiner. How's that grab you? Anyway, this WOKE thing has to be pulled way back if we can hope to actually, materially, solve our societal problems. Jonathan Haidt, the social scientist, said that many of the people behind WOKE initiatives are young and will be in the workforce and institutions for decades to come. We're stuck with this mind virus, and I don't see a way through this without some really tough fights to challenge this ideology to a point where we can get back to reasonable discussions about how to repair real problems in the real world. Trying to lecture society through Disney movies won't accomplish that! Putting more ethnic groups and absurdly mixed race families into TV ads wont' solve our problems. Pushing LGB+++++ stuff in our faces every day won't do it either. It's incredible how, in their stridency, they are actually driving people away and pissing people off, or making people profess fealty out of fear, through all this daily purity testing. I'm done with them. I am done with the Democrat Party. I'm not a conservative, but I am more sympathetic to their views than I was six years ago. I sit center Left now, and that is where I will stay. We gotta neutralize or minimize extremism--Left and RIght. I'm not confident we can do that.
"... that ANYONE is born into a WRONG body..." Absolutely. It's the culture that needs surgery. Let's stop letting ppl think that they were born flawed and need healthy tissue cut away to be OK. It's the culture that needs to be OK with a XY wants to dress and behave feminine, or a XX wants to dress and behave masculine. No surgery required.
@@lotusstar347 I bow to you. More people must object to, or protest this bullying behavior by WOKE youth. Unfortunately, many young people with similar sensibilities are in the workforce. They are dictating policies that sound good, but are actually regressive.
We all need to be challenged on our personal beliefs. Students should not get to dictate how classes are taught because the world doesn’t work that way when there are difficult problems to be solved. They should’ve pushed through their fears or whatever it was and engaged in the subjects at hand in order to gain a fuller picture of the issues experienced by minority groups. Native and First Nations (Canada) still continue to experience significant issues from their cultures between trod over too. So why were these students fighting against studying them? There are other minorities out there besides these groups as well so are we going to ignore them all because it doesn’t suit our self-image? What does it say about a person who won’t really engage the subject they are setting themselves up to be a savior of? It says they’re phony amongst other things… What does it say that our youth think they know more than professors who have spent a lifetime studying issues? It’s says they have no respect and a lot of ASSumptions about themselves. Edit: Boys, yes boys as in children, who are 13-17/18 years old are literally functioning sociopaths until they pass this developmental stage, so why would you allow them to determine the manner of teaching?
It says the students have been indoctrinated with Marxism by the Woke, DEI leaders/teachers in their schools. And frankly, many of the issues experienced by minorities today are NOT issues. Here’s an issue, little children being sex trafficked across our Southern border that is open because of the horrible administration in the White House. Finally, those who have been treated as special (which are minority groups) for so long find it infuriating when they are treated as everyone else in society.
This was in the U.S. - not Canada. However, Native Americans and Black people are the two groups that have experienced systematic racism throughout American history. It boggles my mind that the students didn't care. These are both groups that were denied citizenship, routinely had their children and homes taken away, and had laws written to deny them basic rights in the United States. Though Native Americans have often been revered as this fantasy people by much of White America, unlike the vilification of Black people, they still suffered throughout American history and are a large part of the country's history. ETA: Since some people didn't understand that I wasn't saying these were the only people oppressed in America, but that they were the most oppressed and oppressed throughout America's existence, I'm adding it here so no one needs to send me a comment about what I meant. Thanks.
Right and this is why this type of “anti racist” ideology simply cannot work long term. It will create nothing but division and hostility all the while not allowing teachers to teach
A bunch of 16 yr olds running things like a school? Has no one read Lord of the Flies?? Our brains keep growing into our 20s. The judgement skills are part of the last to finish growing so, no, the students should not have this much power. I see his point. The pendulum has swung too far over.
The sad thing is that this professor seems to teach with a lot of empathy and consciousness about how he's conducting the class, and even that wasn't enough to keep his course from going off the rails. I'm not sure how the students expected to learn about these important topics. One thing that's missed is the audacity of the students to organize and lecture this man on his methods with their manifesto. This is pretty scary when you think of all the educators who are throwing in the towel.
I give a lot of credit to the interviewer for trying to propel this dialogue forward. You unfortunately don’t get that in many media sources so I really appreciated it. It shows to some extent that this professor had a great deal to say but restricted himself to the point that the main focus was lost. Which to me expresses the power of mon based or as the professor termed “cult-like” rule. Even in this discussion he started to tone back his original point which is substantive to ineffective help the tendencies of emerging young social political theory. The “cancel-culture” phenomenon, which was primarily isolated 4-5 years ago, has now gained momentum that hinders free thinkers to confront hard questions. Also we must never forget that the pendulum of power especially in unstable democracies, like the United States, always swings the other direction. We don’t want to fuel cancellation of thought in one direction because it could be used to justify cancellation and oppression of things we happen to agree. Totalitarian structures almost always form from the thinking “I have the best way therefore I forbid you from hearing this, doing this, learning that. Etc.”
This sorry outcome at the Telluride Association is yet another example of allowing the inmates to run the asylum, a phenomenon that is increasingly becoming the norm in these settings as well as on college campuses. I listened to Lloyd recount this recently on Glenn Loury's podcast. When John McWhorter asked Lloyd why he didn't confront Keisha (the 'teaching assistant') and inform her that he is running the class and if she couldn't accommodate herself to that she should leave, Lloyd dodged the question. Education has always been an authoritative process. By all means there should be free exchange of ideas and debates, but order and not caving to the whims and fragile egos of the students should be the rules. A student experiencing trauma by the sound of the word "Negro"? Give me a break!
"Collapse of a differentiation of spaces" is an apt and very democratic way to describe the phenomena...the disrespect for educators sounds perilously close to the re-education of teachers by the Red Guard during the Chinese Cultural Revolution--and most teenagers have no idea what that even is, unfortunately. As a parent of teens, I can relate to the censorship aspect and know firsthand how easily triggered that age group can be. While I appreciate and commend their ideals, I know that ultimately it's my job as a parent to point out to them when they are being self-righteous/smug; the luxury of being young (ignorant of how insanely good their patch of the world is) and inexperienced (jobless and rolling in free-time) makes it nearly impossible for them to truly understand the views of half the country. And that college is for learning, not staging a coup with your friends.
Wish there were WAY more like you. While we can all correctly point out the deficiencies in current education and social media, it's also a huge lack of exposure to emotionally intelleligent adults and plain old parenting. Parents who are absent because they have to work too much, or because theyWANT to be avoidant.
I'd say parent and parental figure. Not all kids are fortunate to have parents around them. Some live with grandparents, aunts and uncles, etc. Come to think of it, this is probably the result of 5-10 years ago people getting too hooked on social media, they don't have time for proper conversation with one another anymore even at home and at the dinner table.
Largely because the education system in the West has been influenced by Paulo Freires Critical Paedogy. He was inspired by Maos Cultural Revolution. Suggesting " it was the genial concept of the century". In Ireland we have adopted it from the US and the chaos is already beginning.
This has nothing to do with anti-racism, this is just oversensitive echochambering. Democracy is hindered when it’s a simple majoritarian. Things should involve compromise and dissent.
@@kx7500 whenever socialism doesn't produce a good outcome, then we know one of two things: either it wasn't "really" socialism or the problem was the people running the system. It's never the fault of socialism itself. And the same with anti racism. There's nothing wrong with anti racism, instead it's (fill in the blank with some nonsense jargon like "oversensitive echochambering") Sum up with more genuflection to "democracy" blah blah.
@@kx7500 "The United Socialist Party of Venezuela is a left-wing to far-left socialist political party which has been the ruling party of Venezuela since 2010. " So, the ruling party defines itself as socialist. At this point no definition is necessary unless you want to claim that a socialist party isn't really socialist and doesn't understand what socialism is. If you want to die on that hill I can't stop you bruh.
It goes too far when kids literally cancel/purge/expel kids from the group. They should have had one on one discussions with these kids to evaluate their maturity and openness to new ideas as well. They needed to learn how to challenge their biases before this class! Elite babies, guau that's difficult
I love that idea - to "differentiate spaces"... for the purpose of grappling with these concepts and ideas, as difficult as that may be. We need our children to understand that "uncomfortable" is not the same as "unsafe", and that they can learn resilience in the face of uncomfortable when the potential outcome is greater than the discomfort of the original problem. When did parents and our schools decide that was a skill not worth learning?
Being uncomfortable can be unsafe to people when it is a question of their own identity and they think in black and white without shades of grey. Thinking in black and white has been a national trend since 2011 and it leads to the end of rationality.
Challenging the privilege of the elites’ young? I taught Spanish at a La Jolla middle school. I taught the colors- yeah they tried it with the word for black. I was fired despite 23 years of top evaluations. Keep on fighting the good fight, Professor. Thank you
Seriously? You taught them the word black in Spanish and got fitted for saying “negro”? That’s is completely bonkers. That’s the word! What are you supposed to teach?
@@BuhodePiedra it was retaliation - the bimbo chief of staff got there on her back and would be written up by the state for federal program compliance. She fired everyone who knew she was incompetent. She did this for 15 years, now she’s in DC on a special appointment by our president.
This is such an important topic. Wow. I'm so grateful I went to school during a period in which critical thinking was taught and that it included being able to take either side of any argument. Emotionally wrenching? Sometimes, absolutely. But I'm so grateful for the intellectual and emotional strength it built within me to face it anyway.
Glad the mainstream media is finally covering some of these stories. This sort of stuff has been going on for years now, as anyone who follows McWhorter, Lowry, Coleman Hughes or Jerry Coyne knows. Or anyone who reads Quillette.
Yep and I remember being disturbed that mainstream media didn’t even cover the evergreen incident . A professor was hunted down by a group of racist students and only Fox covered it. What a shame
The Professor here is an proponent of anti-racism and was teaching a course on anti-blackness. If he's whistleblowing, he may be a better advocate than the names you mentioned, all of whom oppose the anti-racism movement.
Thank 🙌 we still have educators willing to put up a good fight because you don't get paid enough and mostly likely your vacation days outside of summer isn't enough either!! All of America's debt from where doeth spring forth?!
I feel sorry that this very likable person had such an experience because students who want to learn should be open to all ideas. On the other hand, I am grateful that he did have this experience because it affected his thinking and made him write about it-I am afraid many teachers (I was one of those) just absorb the negativity and try another approach. I too have come around to agreeing with John McWhorter about upholding academic excellence instead of catering to the majority or peers. Professor McWhorter reminds me of Bill Cosby telling young black men to dress and behave in conformance with The Establishment, but that’s my personal inner conflict. Thanks to Professor Lloyd for his ability to learn from all students and reconsider his own views.
This guy doesn’t come off as extremely likable to me at all. It’s funny that he is basically arguing that the students have no clue what a seminar is… and in the spirit of seminar he didn’t properly platform their position in good faith he completely derided their position the entire time. He asking them to do something he wldnt even do.
The 2 models you have chosen indicate your prejudice. Both Cosby and McWhorter are ready to throw people under the bus for their own profit. You should ask yourself why it's the black youth attire that is considered a sign of danger and repressed while the white kids fashion infractions are viewed like youthful indiscretions?
@@skribblylacroix3251 No, the high school students sound like entitled brats trying to control the class. This attitude is prevalent in Western schools.
@@skribblylacroix3251 he is very suspect. I cant imagine teaching a summer seminar of high schoolers and then being the only staff there who felt the need to write an article about it publicly in a manner to flame culture war and tension. Bad faith.
Thanks, Dr Lloyd. I was a white anti-racism educator for 25 years. In one of my final years of teaching college students from a syllabus revolving around Blackness, three Asian women called me a racist because I wasn't talking about them. Of course, I understood their feeling of exclusion, but they'd committed to the highly detailed syllabus beforehand. The whole experience left me so dispirited that I came to welcome retirement. Woke is far better than asleep, and learning justice and compassion for those who are not us--at any age--is still best for all of us.
I feel for Professor Lloyd. We are losing out on the best educators and we are failing the kids. They do not seem to be able to handle anything. Brain Drain! Anti Science, Anti intellect and down right anti Humanity!
I'm not a teacher. I'm not a college graduate. If a word was said from a historical record that upset someone. That person should have step out of the class until they felt better. A class should have some structure. If I understood what happened correctly, I am open to the possibility that I am missing something critical, the students were not mature enough to learn the lesson dispassionately.
I read his article. It sounds like the seminar was taken over by a bully. Vincent Lloyd seems like a very kind person. It is a shame that a charismatic teen saw fit to take the reigns and ruin what could have been a very valuable educational experience.
My feeling is the point is that the other students let her do it. In a workshop with some of the brightest students in the country, one person shouldn’t have been able to silence opposing points of view
@@seanmcmurphy4744 Certainly they let her. I doubt that was the other students' intent as they were receptive to the professor when not in the lead student's presence. The seminar is designed as an egalitarian experience, but the bully student did not respect that.
It was not a teen who is alleged to have taken the reins in his article. It was a factotum, a college-aged (usually) person who supervises and facilitates the teenage students, who is described as having done that. Just wanted to make that point clear for anyone following this.
College should be a place to discuss anything. Another issue is that Florida law about keeping children comfortable with what is in textbooks. What about the comfort of a student who sees history whitewashed by leaving out important details due to a governor like Dis Ain't Us?
💯 I totally agree. I asked a guy about that. Consider my mom who was born in 1950s, Georgia. She was taught terrible things about her people, there was no consideration for her feelings towards this. I kid you not, my mother didn't know we came from Africa. So, her mom didn't know. Madness
DeSantis is being looked at for his 2006 JAG appointment to Guantanamo. (Witnessing the administering of torture) The suspension of Habeas Corpus and the offshoring of torture. (Guantanamo Bay, where detainees were held indefinitely, without charge, while simultaneously being tortured by the CIA)
@@ndeamonk24. What you just said is an absolute lie. Your mother knew her history went back to Africa, but she sounds really smart. Instead of accentuating her history, when there is no future in the past, she chose to live her American life.
As a clinical psychologist I see the types of thinking these students exhibit in my anxious and depressed clients: emotional reasoning (if I feel it, it is true), all-or -nothing thinking (you’re for us or against us; hurtful words are the same as harmful actions), I can’t stand it (I’m weak and fragile, easily destroyed). These do not lead to vigorous debate or engagement with those with whom we disagree. Lukianoff & Haidt “The coddling of the American mind” discusses these issues on campus.
Thank you for sharing. As a 58 year old African American/Black female, all the history that I learned in the 70 and 80s, hurt me. However, it was something that I needed to know/learn - THE TRUTH. How can anyone say that they will only learn what makes them feel good, or what they agree with. It does not make sense.
how can we profs address these types of thinking in the classroom in a way that supports students psychologically? who would be good to read for these techniques?
There's been an inexorable increase in all-or-nothing thinking since 2011 which leads to anger, depression, and inflexibility of thought. If everything has to be either good or evil and there's nothing in between except everything in life, you can't think rationally or learn. It isn't just these students - you can probably see it in the comments here without too much trouble. It's far too easy for Americans to fall into this since our intellectual life was founded by Puritans and we never outgrew their mental habits.
Reminds me of what happened after the Protestant reformation with the Anabaptists reading the New Testament and determining Martin Luther didn’t go far enough based on their reading of the text and creating a new class of heretics. It did not go well.
Dinosaur here. Born in 1952. We memorized multiplication tables and state capitals. We also lived during desegregation, and it was parents who objected. Rote learning has purpose, to process information, but it does not determine character. Indulgence, material or emotional destroys it.
It's a current trend to expunge from literature classes texts, even by writers of color, containing language that creates a special burden, so the argument goes, for students of color. This is ironic, since it wasn't too long ago that there were calls for the inclusion of these very texts on the grounds--correct, in my view--that their exclusion was informed by historic racism.
Really? Shocking? Hmmm. Liberalism tends to become more and more extreme and radical. It ends up being an authoritarian cult. Like communism. Notice that war abroad and weaponized government at home has become ok with liberals now. As long as the weapons are pointed at their enemies. I used to think liberalism was a peace loving antiwar political belief. How foolish of me
The natural question to ask is where did these children learn this philosophy and value system? Did they learn it from their radicalized parents? Or is this being taught at their schools? Did I miss it because I heard no one in the video mention the liberal value of free speech? It seems to me, we have extremism on the Left and on the Right with illiberal views being advocated by both sides. If these children are the Ivy bound elites in training, I really fear for our country.
These students were not prepared for a university/college class. I would recommend a survey before students attend. Not sure the organization would be OK with that, but something needs to be done to prepare the participants for a liberal discussion.
I actually watched Lloyd speaking with Glen Loury and John McWhorter on the Glen Show a few weeks ago. It’s crazy how life can happen. While the professor didn’t condone this behavior he was sympathetic to a degree. To see someone who was an ally get turned on for pursuing his intellectual interests is crazy. This new wave of PC is complete insanity.
Discussing race and inequality in college 15 years ago was exciting, eye-opening, and it was alsoa little bit messy. It's disconcerting to see this very process unraveling from the bottom-up. The sad thing is that, for many students, this experience may be there only chance for historical context and broader understanding of the complex machinations of racism, but they will miss out if just talking about it is considered assault.
Sounds to me like a rouge TA/coordinator/assistant, with 21 hours of the student's day vs. 3 hours for the professor, had an agenda (against the professor and the seminar format) and drove his seminar off the rails. IMHO, the Telluride Institute should have intervened to manage or replace the assistant. Sounds like the TA weaponized the students against the professor and seminar.
This makes me very sad for the fragility of our youth at a point in their lives when they should feel strong and resilient and willing to take on difficult and challenging things that are true about the world. It has, historically, been young adults who tackle these subjects, fearlessly. But, if they can't bear up to the language of our history, in an educational context, whether unjust or not, how can they possibly persevere?
I had my first experience similar to this maybe 5-6yrs ago. Being told that for me to question in any way what the person speaking to me was saying was questioning her lived experience and was therefore harmful to her. The people I know who are the most genuinely marginalized, who've had a genuinely challenging experience of the world don't think like this at all. I think that those of us who want to make concrete change in the world need to stand up to these kinds of ideas.
I know. People who have suffered don’t act like this. Such as grinding inter generational poverty. Imprisonment. Severe mental health challenges. Homelessness. It’s not a race issue. It’s class and economics.
We seem to be losing the ability to distinguish objective vs. subjective experience, which means that there's no such thing as a fact or the truth. This is what the far left of those taking a stand for "woke" ideals would have everyone believe. But this is not a sustainable reality. Some of this stuff is right out of 1984. Words matter. We can't control the speech of others without risking our right to speak. This is a fundamental truth and why the First Amendment exists. The idea that these kids collectively agreed that hearing these facts about the past, was too hard to endure, and that the speaker must be stopped, is terrifying to me. It's mob-think. For the school to protect them after doing that...how is this sustainable given where it's logical course leads?
If the person you were talking to was expressing that, then they’re clearly communicating “challenging” her “ideas” isn’t what she needed. She needed validation. And no, validation is NOT the same as agreeing. You’re literally putting yourself in some kind of authority position to choose who is actually suffering based on some arbitrary metric that *you* just made up. Everyone needs to be validated. Even you. And I don’t think externalizing your experience on the topic at hand is going to help or contribute anything. Actually, you commented on this to be validated yourself which is ironic.
To be fair to the students, they are challenging the notion of critical thinking as necessarily neutral. Feminist scholars were covering this ground in the late '80s and early '90s. It all depends of the values of the critical thinker. Most commonly, those values have been patriarchal values, for example, reason and intellect are better than emotional knowledge, the mind is better than the body. So Professor Lloyd is correct, there is a paradigm shift going on. At the same time, "meeting the students needs" should not be equated with "give them what they want so they don't complain" and that seems to me to be Telluride's message here.
If critical thinking isn’t neutral, it’s neither critical nor thinking. Also, this professor has basically been hoisted on his own petard, by having made a career of promoting the idea that something called “anti-blackness” is rife in American culture.
Sounds like a bunch of rude, poorly socialized children felt entitled to BULLY the Professor and other students. Children should NEVER be allowed to BULLY. They must learn to respect boundaries or they will never amount to anything.
It's worse than that, actually. It's not that they're behaving this way because they're rude and poorly socialized, but rather that these attitudes have been instilled in them and _cultivated_ by their various teachers following the outline of a toxic pseudo-marxian pedagogy..
My sympathies, too, are entirely with the professor. I had a similar experience as the professor in charge of a university reading group titled "Christian Fiction." The question arose of the importance of the resurrection of Christ to the Christian faith. Several students claimed that even definitive evidence disproving the resurrection would not affect their faith or practice. I asked what they made of Paul's assertion in 1 Corinthians 15 that "if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men." There was dead silence and then a torrent of rage. Did I take myself to be the director of their consciences or their pastor? Who was I to question their beliefs in this intensely personal matter,( as if its being personal also robbed it of any objective reality.) The students did not have the emotional or intellectual maturity rightly to wield the permission to question authority.
Christianity is an evidence based faith. Faith is not blind, but based on reasonable probability. Unfortunately these students were not trained to exegete the passage in its context. Ironically, Paul is presenting a very unpleasant hypothetical argument to his readers-the kind of thing this professor was doing-and drawing it to its logical conclusion. Unfortunately the students reacted hyper-defensively. Biblical illiteracy is the cause of much weakness in the church and prevents clear explanations to those who misunderstand. I wish more young people were simply taught logic, apologetics and rhetoric as part of their education. Kind of like having managing your finances be part of every good education. The outcomes could be significant.
My daughter briefly went to a "Democratic Free School" where the admins policy was full democracy for any age child. It was totally wrong. So completely wrong.
America has a victim culture previously unseen in history. Pandering to victimhood has a fostered a culture of banality and laziness where identity is based on victim status rather than achievement. This transition has been led by the media, interest groups, and politicians. Politicians love telling voters that they are victims.
I know its to the aburd point where people list mental disorders they have as their entre to groups as others have tried to impress others with how strong resilient friendly or accomplished they are now we are like Hi I'm an addict w ptsd what are your diagnoses?
Do you know WHY politicians love telling voters that they're victims? Because it WORKS. You're absolutely correct that the U.S. has a "victim culture" in which those who aren't white males feel entitled to take no responsibility for their actions and attitudes, but instead blame their failures on a system that's "stacked against them" by those very white males - despite there being virtually NO empirical evidence which supports that conclusion. The politicians tell the voters what they want to hear in order to get elected, and it works - every time. No one is going to be elected to any sort of office telling people that they need to grow up, stop whining and that they have a responsibility - to themselves, to their families and friends, and to society - to transcend their circumstances and become better versions of themselves despite whatever obstacles are there. It's called maturity - but no one wants to hear that. As usual, the source of and solution to our problems stares back at us from the mirror every morning.
@@jennifergottliebel-azhari149 It makes you long for the days when guys bought Porsches to get dates instead. That was equally absurd but at least you could make jokes at their expense without being called a some-kind-of-ist.
The seminar could include a section on the Cultural Revolution. Not light reading, but so many parallels to our current situation. Races may be different, but plenty of racism amongst various people of China. Be sure to include struggle sessions and the resulting madness. Perhaps these kids need to look beyond their own navels and see the wider world.
Having read the article, and being a prof who employs social justice pedagogies, I think the fundamental issue is that (right or left) students now can't tolerate the discomfort of learning/thinking so they want to control everything, in the context of a crisis of authority in the classroom caused by the corporate model of education that treats them as consumers and is only concerned with "keeping the numbers up." I teach my students that without openness to what others have to teach and without discomfort, there is no learning or thinking, as Lloyd was trying to do. While this particular situation does illuminate how extremities on the left can be harmful to the ultimate project of social justice, in this case the article makes clear that the TA's behaviour was egregiously narcissistic, effectively indoctrinating students in a cult-like manner so they cancelled both the expert prof and students who didn't fall in line. The administration not backing Lloyd up resulted in an example of how democracy fails if the authority of expertise is ignored and if only some people are given a voice while others (in this case Lloyd and the two cancelled students) are silenced. To refuse to learn about the struggles of Indigenous peoples, to silence LGBTQ2+ and/or Asian students and an expert on Anti-Blackness, to have the unqualified TA take over the class so it is just delivering dogma in lectures, wow, that is the opposite of social justice as well as the antithesis to education. No democracy, no intersectionality, no learning, no true empowerment. In essence, Telluride's support for the students' democratic powers resulted in their dismantling the democratic structure to follow the populist totalitarian TA. That said, in my classes, I do also stipulate that no argument can be valid that seeks to invalidate another's personhood and that we need to talk about the discomfort that arises as there is an important distinction between the discomfort from encountering a new or opposing idea and that which arises from words etc. that bring up painful lived experiences of oppression. Working through, and not avoiding, these kinds of discomfort is what leads to being both empowered and educated.
@@ChristinaChrisR There are complex differences across critical, Indigeneous, anti-racist, feminist, etc. social justice pedagogies so can't be totalized. Generally, using seminar rather than "sage on the stage" lecture format gives students a voice; starting with what the students bring to the subject and enlarging the conversation from there with texts, key questions, etc. Beginning the course with building community, acceptance of difference, and open yet responsible communication. Being transparent about why the course design is what it is, what values drive this design. Using storytelling to affirm the authority of personal experience in context with the authority of expertise. Seeking to: include but decenter privileged perspectives, decolonize, diversify and contextualize knowledge, acknowledge intersectionality, find new ways to engage with and learn from expertise, wonder/question in contested sites rather than aggressively debating. Making space for students to be their whole selves, not just intellects. It does NOT mean let the students or TA direct/control the class or avoid discomfort. The irony of this TA is that she destroyed Lloyd's social justice pedagogy that empowers students to instead employ the techniques of indoctrination so the students started to just want to be told what to think. That is disempowerment. Rampant narcissism & entitlement is the problem. (Example: I used to have students grade themselves and I'd grade them separately then we would meet to discuss and arrive at a final grade. They had always given themselves a lower grade! Then the millennials all just gave themselves A+ so I dropped the practice.) Telluride should have removed any TA who so blatantly sabotages the prof, working against rather than with. No one can teach with that dynamic.
@@liza.radley In the article, it was because they wanted to centre Blackness as it was the most important in a hierarchy of oppression (in other words, forget intersectionality) and thus the silencing of the Asian and LGBTQ2+ students
‘to meet the students’ needs’ . . . hmmmm. Since when do 16 and 17-year-olds have the mental maturity and life experiences to properly assess what they need to learn? Seems like a recipe for terminal adolescence.
These sort of stories make me want to go sit in on liberal arts classes just to see what is actually going on. I graduated college in 2003 and even back then the terms "safe space" and "trigger warning" had started to float around. But because I was in school for engineering I was insulated from a lot of that stuff since most courses were lectures not discussions.
Graduated same year, literature major, and didn't encounter these issues. Very constructivist instruction, some classes very much pushed the edge with controversial material, philosophy, film, photography, students loved it. Learned a lot, ideas were welcomed, conversation among student pushed for. Things are weird now.
It seems to me that giving young people the freedom to express themselves should be distinguished from giving students the "freedom" to shut out information.
In other words, privileged , over indulged children are deciding what can or cannot be said or studied in institutions of higher learning. Seeking an enlightened procedure into adulthood, which was once the purpose of a university education, has now been sacrificed to appease the infantilized student body. Fear of the tantrums they might throw, or expensive legal actions their parents might take has reduced universities to being merely very costly holiday camps .
This is interesting. I'm at university now, in a program for social workers who will be serving stigmatized populations. We've had students who said really hateful things and were not corrected at all by professors, making the classrooms miserable for students from the groups targeted. At a time when things are getting worse instead of better in terms of human rights, professors are responsible for maintaining classrooms that don't allow discrimination. It sounds like these students are overcorrecting, but it's also hard to tell without hearing their side of things. I'm pretty impressed by their self-advocacy, but concerned with their inability to consider opposing views. It's also possible that they're very frustrated by entrenched problems and don't know how to address that.
Are you aware that stigmatized clients can and do say incredibly hateful things? I worked for many years with incredibly marginalized ( mostly homeless people suffering from substance misuse and serious mental illness) people. Said terrible things to others and to those of us serving them. Then along came a new crop of LCSWs, with training in anti-racism, who took incredible personal offense at things said by marginalized people, went to union, said they couldn’t work with xyz person. That they were being subjected to a hostile work environment. While those of us who tried to explain the therapeutic necessity of never taking anything a client says, or of judging said client were hit with a wall of deliberate deafness. Older people had to step in and take over these cases. One of the reasons I left - young social workers dehumanizing / erasing the most marginalized among us under the guise of anti-racism.
@@phasis I certainly am. I'm differentiating between how future SWers and professors have obligations to behave in appropriate ethical ways from how clients might behave. Clients are not responsible to our Code of Ethics.
@@emerafey I am sure you are - but I will tell you, from first hand experience, that there are new social workers coming into systems, who do believe that a racist client is workplace abuse. There have always been crappy social workers with thin skins, but this is a whole other level. Ethical codes should be non-partisan. I’ve done great work in the field with ethical, well meaning Republican voting social workers and cops. Sometimes they say something, and I have to take a deep breathe and let it go. My work with my (often psychotic) clients has taught me to listen deeply and held my own ideological impulses at bay
Sigh… I think this is far too complex a problem that can be addressed in a forum like this. On one hand, did the students not understand that their critical thinking skills were going to be challenged? That discomfort is the first step toward learning? On the other hand, given what is known about our society’s polarized culture, did the foundation not presume that the children would arrive entrenched? The format of that seminar, as I understand it, seemed perfect for junior/senior college-level instruction. Perhaps 16-17 year olds aren’t as equipped to hear both sides of an issue because we’ve succeeded in creating echo chambers across society. It’s really sad, and I fear for the future of critical thought.
The teaching assistant was only mentioned a few times, but I think he or she or they were involved in instigating the collapse of the class. The TA is identified early on as a person unhappy that indigeneity was the first topic of the first week. Prof Lloyd also says the TAs were like camp counselors responsible for the other 21 hours of the students’ day.
It reminds me of that video of subway rats going cannibalistic during the pandemic. Billionaires have won the class war and turned the rest of us against ourselves.
I’ve taught college and secondary courses and both demand structure. The students also need leadership in the classroom and they aren’t getting that. There was a lack of classroom management and structure. Yes, the kids interrupted way too much. They themselves were the obstacles to their own learning. You can question topics respectfully. You can also understand that when there is an impasse you must agree to disagree and continue to learn the material. I would have asked, after so many interruptions,”Are you here to learn and discuss or are you here simply to object?” Then I would give them the choice to leave the classroom. Stick to an objective, focus on the learning and be the leader in the room.
This is shocking. The Governor of Florida blocking hundreds of books, banning AP Black Studies and banning certain words and phrases from being spoken in class is only adding to the problem.
Distorted narrative pushed by the extremely left media that has gone off the rails. For instance, a 'Do not Say Gay' bill does not exists. I used to love PBS, not any more they have become untrustworthy, including Michel Martin. She always pushing the racist country meme.
Pretty much the Florida governor is in line historically and politically with the continuation of over 400 years of whitewashing American political black history. Truth + Wisdom = Peace ✌ 🙏 🙌 👏.
I am suspecting after years of the political right's racist gaslighting, some of these young people maybe feeling that they are in a state of siege and existential threat that may itself induce dogmatic rather than thoughtful response. Also, youth can pick up the language of a perspective faster than they can pick up critical thinking and its articulation.
We continue to go backwards socially in this world...the idea that a university has to coddle their grown students is crazy. They dictate what they learn? If we can't talk , debate respectfully and share alien ideas what's the point? There are so many "trigger words" too so I find myself being "careful"..😢
So my understanding is that the students were uncomfortable about what they were being exposed to and standing up for their feelings. I had an experience at work recently with which I can relate to this sentiment. We had to watch three videos on how race is social construct and not based on science at all, and how race was used as a weapon over the centuries in this country to define essential what an American “looks like” and who is included in the American dream. I’m a black woman who is first generation American and I found these videos heartbreaking and unsettling to watch. They made me angry. But they also allowed me to see the experiences of non-white Americans on a level I had never seen before. It allowed me to understand why our communities look the way they do and are the way they are. It allowed me to sympathize with the non-white American community and expanded my view of white privilege. It opened my mind to the generational experiences of many who lived here long before my family showed up. And I think those who lived through it would be grateful to know that their experiences have not been forgotten. I used to identify with my mother’s experience in the French Caribbean where race was not a social construct, where it’s not even an issue or not weaponized anymore at least (no one saw color in her ethnicly diverse community). But because of where we’ve been in this country and the fact that the impacts of race are still felt here we need to listen to each other’s experiences at the very least. It will help all of us see each other’s humanity. It will allow us to better understand ourselves.
To @sk8gritten: You have had the wool pulled over your eyes by Marxists. If you truly believe that white privilege exists, you are racist. If you feel so strongly about how you are being treated in America, leave. Put your money where your mouth is.
These students had certainly already been exposed to the learning you describe as a pre-condition of being admitted to this program. In many / most instances they have grown up with this understanding embedded in their overall educational experiences. These kids are an elite selection from within an elite network of high schools. Kids on a track to the Ivy Leagues.
I want to hear from the students. What was their process? What has influenced them? It's hugely important to get behind this story and hear the rest of it.
The students were actually pushed to do this by radical TA who wanted to push out the professor. The students are young and impressionable. I would not hold them too accountable
YES! I am totally interested in the students reasoning and feelings from an array of students including the 2 that were allegedly kicked out by the others. We have got to understand this. I have a hunch that this is a combination of the sheer rage these young people very understandably feel at the racism they have been seeing and the hard position that young people have always exhibited on social issues. I remember the extreme gut feeling that was anti war for my generation as a young teenager and my friends and I going to protest marches and walkouts in protest at my high school. We had no knowledge of the history or policy reasons behind the continuance of this war and the anti war movement and I am not here arguing FOR the war but describing our state of mind and the context and nature of the high school aged human in it. We were bound to a hard anti Vietnam stance by our lack of knowledge, the easy to understand anti war rhetoric that pulled on us emotionally and by the fact that all the young people and “peace hippie type folks” who were a little older than us and the Marijuana young peoples culture we were a part of and the teenage strong need to bond with our friends plus add the liberal and left values we held and that media and our left “hippie” culture demonized Nixon and later Johnson as part of this whole cultural phenomenon that as a teenager we were quite willing to fully bond with as particularly potent was our need to bond with our friends and larger group we identified with. As such it was a part of our very identities- and that is a crucial age group for identity formation. We would never have listened to anything the pro war side would have said nor would we have sat for and rationally conversed on the situation. Because we had the mind set we were totally right and our identity as an individual as hooked up with our identity bond with our larger group. I am just describing here a mind and emotion set that I think explains what was happening in this classroom situation in this video. I would like to say this dynamic also can take place in adults and we see this same dynamic with the Q-anon and MAGA groups as well as cults.
This is so confusing to me. I am very liberal and left but I was in uni about 10 years ago so things have really changed. A classroom is not a safe space, it's for learning, and part of learning things like history is to confront harmful ideologies and stereotypes from the past. The only way we can learn more about things we fundamentally believe is to hear opposing arguments that force us to confront our own beliefs, challenge them, change them or strengthen our convictions and come up with new ways to defend them. I feel like we are overstating the harm that is done by learning. And learning is almost always done while engaged in a constructive dialog, not through memorization of a lecture of stated facts.
Well said! I could not agree more with everything you wrote. 👍
I always voted blue but the pandering to these far left goofy people who don't live in reality or have any basic sense of economics is really pushing me away from supporting anymore. They are pandering to these "woke" people the same way the right has been pandering to their trump style voters.
THAT’S exactly what my undergrad and Master’s programs were about! Education is meant to challenge our dearly held beliefs, expose us to new ideas and broaden our thinking, not coddle us and swoon us in cotton wool - life is brutal and diverse.
I wonder if you have all the facts. You’re hearing one side. Listen to the last 2 min of the action student statements. Then ask if the story is more about conflict that went wrong.
@@michaelchangaris1632 Fair point. Did PBS ask one of the students or representative of the students to participate in this interview? I have no problem agreeing that, society-wide, across the spectrum of ages, we are segregated into silos and recoil at having to listen to opposing views to our own detriment. But, if one is black (or non-white) there is a known history of "confusing and misnaming black students" in the classroom. Black people KNOW THIS. If he did it repeatedly, he should know that isn't something to take lightly.
There's more to this story.
Speaking as someone who's taught undergraduate philosophy classes for decades, I've had similar experiences with students on the left and on the right. Some don't want better reasoning skills or an informed opinion. Instead, they want to crush anyone who says something that they don't like.
Crush is the language of "debate" on the internet. Both sides use the language of violence to characterize their performance.
@@neilreynolds3858 then there are the objectively factual who are neutral but characterized as verbally violent when they introduce information contrary to the currently held delusions
@@neilreynolds3858 exactly..look at YT..destroy, wreck, blast, hate on...whether the topic is soccer, relationships, politics etc
Next time try speaking as someone other than that.
That sounds like the basic challenge of educating young people which includes guidance in general maturation as well as presenting information.
Great interview - best of luck, Mr. Lloyd. Extremely difficult times to be an educator, unfortunately.
An educator- yes, more than just a professor. An educator's job is never easy, and the amount of disrespect these
young students showed for a teacher who has infinitely more knowledge and experience than they do and is doing his best to actually give them something useful is appalling. Also the TA's role in this I find extremely disturbing. She should have been dismissed and never hired back again. The admin of Telluride come off as cowards. There is such a thing as truth and honesty, and this sort of behavior is the opposite of that. One of my favorite classes in college (UC Berkeley) was a 5-person seminar on the history of the start of WWII, and we had to work really really hard on the readings and compositions, and in the seminar had to respond to his questions and defend our own arguments. The teacher never gave his own opinions, but inspired us and challenged us to actually think. I had a great time and learned so much not just about Germany, Hitler and so on but about how to read, how to study, how to write, and how to participate in a challenging seminar. The prof was a postdoc who never got tenure as there were no jobs in History at the time, and apparently went off to write sports columns, a huge loss for the U.
My son has attended some remote classes, there are clearly some incredibly challenging students in the classroom. 😮
People like him created this mess - now the mess came for him
I had this problem at first with my 7th graders just trying to get them to practice creating a thesis statement for a position they didn't agree with. We pushed through, I stood firm. With my 8th graders I asked them, using two carefully crafted thesis, where they stood on the morality of propaganda as a messaging tool. Based on their answer I assigned them to do research to argue the opposing position to the one they took. 8th graders okay, not pushing back, understanding that I was helping them become better debaters by understanding opposing points of view.
@@lopezb here here, how dare this TA think they knew more than the professor about the course and the process. Unless he is asking them to engage in something unethical, immoral, illegal, or bigoted, step down please and attempt to learn something.
‘Harmed’? They have been irreparably harmed already by being taught that their petulant fetishes carry absoute moral weight. Lost and beyond therapy, they are then given authority over their teacher, guaranteeing no actual education can occur. God help them when they need to actually deal with the world.
These young people remind me of the children of the Khmer Rouge.
@@shawnaweesner3759 I have been referring to these young people, who are essentially running society now, as the Children of the Corn. WOKE is a gigantic cult, or mass movement. Many decades ago, kids and young people were told to shut up if they got out of line. Today, they are held up as a group of people who should put "their lived experience" above all else. It's partly our own fault. We adults who raised these kids, and social media, are largely to blame for this atrocious condition. I see no way out. It's utterly chilling. I'm a liberal who is considered by these people to be a Right-winger--me, a guy who voted twice for Obama, and twice against the Orange Tornado. Why the hell would I support the WOKE in any way? Why the hell would I ever vote Dem again--at least until they come back to earth. And it's not at all encouraging that the Right has gone off the rails. Who does someone in the middle vote for these days? I feel utterly hopeless.
God help the World.
@@lonzo61 To vote Democrat is NOT to vote for this insane trend of hyper offended youth. It comes form the Humanities faculties of universities and it has few advocates in actual Democratic circles. University administrators who built their careers on this poison need to go.
The woke and the maga are fomented by the algorithms for intentionally destructive purposes.
As a side note, this sounds like an INCREDIBLE teacher. I am jealous of those who got to learn from him. What a creative, intensive, challenging curriculum with a tons of hands on learning. Here is a teacher who encourages his students to think and also teaches concepts and lessons in a very memorable, hands on, extremely creative way.
Did you watch until the end lol
@@Sarah-re7cg While I’m sure the meaning of your comment is probably obvious to you, I have tried to figure out exactly what you might be referring to and the variety of potential meanings I can find from it are so varied I have finally determined I personally am incapable of safely interpreting what point is being made, so I will merely say yes, I watched it all the way to the end and even just rewatched it to the end, and based on what I meant when I typed the comment and the way I read my original comment I still believe my comment stands as written.
i agree!!!
The problem is that race issues was never discuss in American high schools so now suprise, suprise
@@ivancampbell8123 When exactly are you talking about that race wasn’t discussed in American High Schools? It was certainly discussed when I was in High School. I know it was discussed when my parents were in High School. I know it was discussed when my grandparents were in High School. Where on earth did you get the idea that it wasn’t discussed?
This reminds me a lot of the Chinese Cultural Revolution and also McCarthyism. Thoughts and ideas became the enemy even when the same people were allied just months earlier.
Or even more aptly the early days/dawn of the Soviet Union. Many thought at the time that it was going to be true democracy(aka radical democracy as the professor mentioned), where all the people including the workers and disenfranchised would have a say. Those who quickly released this was not the case and left Russia to speak out against what was happening found themselves of course silenced, called traitors, etc etc... Thus starts one of the most if not the most insane and destructive mass capture of state in history. Only to be later challenged for the crown by Nazi'ism and then eventually superseded(it seems), by Mao's Cultural Revolution for the sheer number of people eliminated.
It’s not at all like that it’s racially illiterate kids being affected by adults political nonsense and we’re never educated on their country so you have this not fucking Mao and Stalin
"The problem is not that Johnny can't read. The problem isn't even that Johnny can't think. The problem is Johnny doesn't know what thinking is; he confuses it with feelings."
Thomas Sowell
I can see this happening all the time in different forums. Even a leftist who is not racist is being called a racist. Mistakes are not forgiven, people are bullied (some members take screenshots and repost after every thread) and honestly people move further away by wondering whether it even makes sense to care. Once my expertise was questioned by people who know nothing about what I do and how much effort I put into ensuring there's no discriminate treatment or impact in the procedures we create. I think it's the right thing to do, so I won't stop doing that. But I certainly care less about those who communicate their superiority or treat other races and other experiences as lesser than their own.
They say drinking coffee is racist..
We are in a snarky era now
@@teresaellis895 no seriously everything is racist nowadays: math, discipline, hard work, merit, capitalism…etc
@@MJMilano7 ..the latest is...a pantry
@@MJMilano7 merit doesn't exist under capitalism, capitalism is inherently exploitive, and therefore, yes, because racism exists and is systemic, racism exists in capitalism. Tons of white people are poor and exploited, but far more people of color are poor and exploited, proportionally.
While this case involves a unique educational context involving 16-17 years old students, I recently experienced a very similar situation teaching an online graduate level course at a major university. As a retired professor I have the option to never again engage with this emerging classroom culture again -- but I feel sorry for those dedicated teachers who have to deal with the new reality.
@Melvin Dubnick,
What the professor and those students outside of the mob suffered is termed *'Narcissistic Mobbing'.* In his case, it would be specifically termed *'Workplace Mobbing'.*
Please read the response I've left for Professor Lloyd, above, for a lengthy, further educational response. Thank you. 🙋🏽♀️
I think that unfortunately it is not reality at all. It is a sick twisted fantasy created by the existence of white supremacy that has deeply poisoned 🤢 too many. It’s incredibly disturbing. How is it that the language that was created by this same group is now somehow a source of harm?🫥😐🫣😯🫤😧😮🥴😮💨🫢
@@OakleyANDSittingBull When bullying is disguised as righteousness, it's so sinister. Teens can know the evil pleasure just as well as adults in religious garb.
The problem is current educators are themselves underachievers and angry at the system. They project this anger to the kids. I am a seasoned professional that started a second career as a teacher. I chose to not purse teaching because I did not believe I could survive in a work environment dominated by low achievers that rely on a socialist system to raise to the top. Please remember the teachers unions are the epitome of the socialist system. I chose to not teach. I argue that we will find the root cause of woke in the teachers unions, the schools, and the people they produce. The solution will be found by getting rid of teachers unions, increasing teacher salaries and tying teacher salaries to long term performance. (Percentage of students that finish the NEXT year, parental involvement, and achievement scores). If kids screw off, expell the kids and send their parents a bill for the education lost.
Was it was what they call Generation Z?
I guess these students were not college material after all.
@Martha Speaks Hating the trades. Sad
@Martha Speaks More like we're suffering because we'll have to listen to these kids until we're dead.
@@neilreynolds3858 listening to them now is depressing sometimes 😕 😪
I think the idea of silencing ideas that make you uncomfortable is a really bad tactic and self defeating in the long run. Then again I am old and the world has changed in very unpredictable ways.
Are you ok with the Governor of Florida blocking hundreds of books, banning AP Black Studies and banning certain words and phrases from being spoken in class?
@@omowhanre A 'Don not say gay' bill does not exist. Your being fed a lot BS from the extreme left media.
Like the professor who tried to silence his students.
@@omowhanre Please read again what Bee Cee wrote above. He is NOT ok with what the Florida governor is dong.
@@erinh9267 Did he try to silence his students? Or, was he trying to keep with the lesson plan in the face of students wanting to direct how the class be taught.
Thanks for coming forward Dr.Lloyd. Former telluride resident here, and want to say you’re not crazy. That institution has always been cultish and incoherent in its values and leadership. I’m sorry they didn’t intervene, but not surprised. The blind leading the blind.
This problem of low tolerance - i.e., the notion that being simply exposed to certain lines of thought or certain language is somehow harming the listener - is certainly an outgrowth of our current online and social media culture. Maybe what the Universities should do is require a preliminary class on critical thinking before taking this kind of seminar. Perhaps two required prelim classes - include one on skills for in-person academic discussion.
Great point! Critical thinking course in first year college really helped me.
To @mjinba07: Low tolerance is not an outgrowth of our current online and social media culture. It’s an ideology called Marxism.
You mean the stuff we used to learn in junior high?
How about class on respect and humility?
Not sure that a pre-class would help the young people in this situation or those like them. They don’t want to hear things they don’t like, see things they don’t like, do things they don’t like … they need to just retreat to their homes and stay there in their perfect environment because they are completely un equipped to work with the real world.
Reading period literature is as important as reading history books. Without a literate society history is forgotten and the citizenry becomes unable to identify when history is going to repeat ahead of time as they’ll have no references in their collective memories.
Thank you so much for sharing. I grew up going to Hidden Villa Summer Camp. Historically it is the first multi-cultural summer camp in the nation (previously, only white children were allowed to go to summer camp everywhere in the country). They also allowed Cesar Chavez and the UFW to organize, as well as Japanese during wwii. They have a long history of sustainability and social justice, working on an organic farm setting and having kids put down electronics and work together to heal the land. Last summer.. this new school of thought basically destroyed the entire Summer Camp program, by claiming that they were extremely harmed by an old buddhist honeymoon gift that had religious symbology on it that was mistaken for nazi symbology. They wouldn't listen to the adults, who told them that this was mistaken. Instead, they said the adults were being racist by not listening to them, and the harm the tile was creating. The younger staff created such a fuss that the admin decided to remove this beautiful tile gift from where it was literally inlaid into an historic building.. but even though they removed the tiles.. it was too late to satisfy their tantrum.. they still all quit en masse just before the summer camp was about to begin.. they did not think of the parents of children who had scheduled their summers months ahead of time, and how they were ruining many people's lives with this decision. They did not stop to think and listen to the adults, who told them that this is not a nazi symbol. They only acted off of their hurt feelings, that were completely mistaken in this instance. The staff who quit went on to interview with a local paper, and only talked about the tiles... but then went online after and started saying there was 'racism on a structural level.' why not tell the news reporter that? the place that allowed japanese, native americans, mexican farm workers etc to organize over the decades has structural racism? I know of the people on the board, they include Indian heritage, asian heritage, mixed anglo heritage, gay/straight etc etc. When I was growing up, the camp director was a black man and he was great fun. The place is basically a model of how to be the most inclusive and forward thinking as possible. But still.. this place was destroyed and slandered across social media as being racist and harmful! this is so crazy. I am from the bay area and went to UCSC and I have a large mixed family of people from all backgrounds, and I cannot get on board with this new way of thinking. It's absolute garbage. Grow up!
@Dan Lake,
I understand the frustration. However, the focus on naysaying against the *needed, evolved level* of the *social consciousness raising* of the 1960s, via *active sensitivity,* termed *'woke'* in African-American Lexicon (formerly termed *'Ebonics')* is off-point here considering *all else* occuring and at stake.
Please, choose to *become more educated* on the *definition and LONG HISTORY of it* via listening to or screening the brief video essay by *Then and Now* on *'Woke'* / *'Wokeism'*
[ v=fw4dUbbVxSc&t=492s ] here, at TH-cam.
What's *far more important* is the *experience* of Professor Lloyd. What he suffered is *NARCISSISTIC MOBBING;* 'workplace mobbing', 'academic mobbing' in his case -- *that* is the *main issue* here. The ACTION, EXPERIENCE, what he went through, the WAY the children went about delivering *their mobbed, extreme thinking, expectations, demands and dictated takeover of the course.*
The *experience* has *traumatised* him. *Please, FOCUS on the experience* rather than victim-blaming the children because of their over-the-top N.P.D.-encouraged thinking and wording.
We can and *will deal* with their hyper-wounded, reactive, narcissistic personality disordered (N.P.D.) thinking and wording also, but *later, please.* We all need to *understand* what *pathological narcissism* (N.P.D.) is and has been permitted to cause children and everyone else *NOW* because it's spreading by the hour, by the day, especially when the governments/social media creators/parents/educators *tolerated(!),* eight, organised, *androsupremacist misogynist terrorist gangs/cults* of the *'Red Pill' a.k.a. 'Manosphere,'* have been *permitted* to seduce/recruit/groom/reprogramme children, youths, teens and young men especially. The *caucasoid supremacist* gang recruiters are doing the same. Huge crossover. The gang/cult leaders are actually suggesting or even dictating their mostly young followers *intentionally become Dark Triad or Cluster-B personality disordered abusers!* *THIS* is the most important issue here.
S/he might have told the reporter there was racism, but the news reporter opted not to include it in the story.
@@vintagejaki751 I doubt it. The news loves to exploit “racism” stories.
You were throwing out those races and ethnicities like fastballs. Then BAM!!! A BLACK MAN, HE WAS FUN!!!! Really? Out of all of that ........... 7 words?
@@angelaschrade5679 i'm sorry what? the place has made it a point to be inclusive since well before inclusivity was a trendy cultural talking point online between 2 warring sides. I don't think I focused on asians, whites, or black people really any more or less than any other group of people.. He was the Director.. like the role with the most responsibility and leadership.. as in.. very well respected and an integral part of the camp.. and yes, he was lots of fun. don't know what the beef is there. cheers
Part of the problem is that the 16- and 17-year-olds were not mature enough to be treated as college students. College students themselves are young and silly in their own, slightly more mature way. My wife teaches at a VERY liberal college, and there are sometimes very awkward interactions between students that she has to mediate. But almost all the undergrads can be brought to a position of accepting that everyone in the class is well-intentioned, and all are learning and growing.
My university is in a liberal state has a diverse population. There are protests with some violence and criminal destruction whenever a right-wing speaker is invited. Ironically, the most extreme protesters are often white.
Single mother raised. Feminist school teachers. What do u expect?
They go to literally a year and half later at age 18. 2 years not going to change their intelligence that much especially if they're not trying to challenge themselves
@@nikitaw1982 you went there ,sir?
Two more years in those high schools is not going to make them more mature - probably the opposite.
Anyone who’s been teaching at the uni level since 2015 has had the same sort of experience from students. They have grown up online, where debates lack vocal inflection, body language and facial expressions. They’ve deduced from the upset they experience with online debates that language is violence. Once you’ve accepted that idea, real world in person debate is doomed.
Damn those kids!
And middle and high school too.
Those students have to emerge from a public or private school experience that went on for roughly 12 years. (I know they're often hooked on their digital media the rest of the day.) So what is happening, or not happening, in K-12 education that fails to prepare students for thoughtful, challenging discourse? What can be done to raise awareness within students about their limited understanding, engagement and critical thinking skills? I didn't learn much from this video about either the nature of the problem or the pathway to success in a new pedagogy.
GOD help me but I think you are more right with that insight than even you think. It's certainly a key in my opinion.
@@surfwriter8461 take all the sexual bs out. Stick with the meat and potatoes.
I am guest speaking at a university next month. I am just going to blow their minds. I have nothing to lose. Their professors don’t have that luxury.
Good luck!
Wear a blue haired wig and start the speech with a song by Q Lazarus "Goodbye Horses". That should give you some shielding. Hell they'll probably be even more confused when the speech is over.
Make their wigs blow right out the school!😂😂
I wonder if maybe all the "positive education" parenting trends where parents both over-protect their kids, expose them only to joy and pleasure and no frustration to "make them happy", and are demanding and high-achieving and pressure the kids to succeed since all obstacles have been brought down in front of them, is a reason why the younger generation is less tolerant of even the notion of contradiction existing and having the right to be expressed.
I am a racial minority woman professor. I have the same experience. Students in 2016 or before would not behave like students now or at least I have not seen it. Before, students understood one has to learn different perspectives and use reasons to work things out. Many students nowadays feel they are so entitled or morally so correct that they can demand their professors to not say things they don’t like to hear. They know they can complain and get the professors fired quite easily. Bec the majority of university administration will not dare to defend the professors. Even in this program you said the administration asked this professor to meet the students’ need. The more honest request I believe should be the administration wanted the professor to give in to what the students like.
It's becoming transactional. The students are the paying customers, and the customer is always right.
@JLAU L,
I do understand the frustration. However, naysaying against the *needed, evolved level* of the *social consciousness raising* of the 1960s, via *active sensitivity,* termed *'woke'* in African-American Lexicon (formerly termed *'Ebonics')* -- please, choose to *become more educated* on the *definition and LONG HISTORY of it* via listening to or screening the brief video essay by *Then and Now* on *'Woke'* / *'Wokeism'*
[ v=fw4dUbbVxSc&t=492s ] here, at TH-cam.
What's *far more important* is the *experience* of Professor Lloyd. What he suffered is *NARCISSISTIC MOBBING;* 'workplace mobbing', 'academic mobbing' in his case -- *that* is the *main issue* here. The ACTION, EXPERIENCE, what he went through, the WAY the children went about delivering *their mobbed, extreme thinking, expectations, demands and dictated takeover of the course.*
The *experience* has *traumatised* him. *Please, FOCUS on the experience* rather than victim-blaming the children because of their over-the-top N.P.D.-encouraged thinking and wording.
We can and *will deal* with their hyper-wounded, reactive, narcissistic personality disordered (N.P.D.) thinking and wording also, but *later, please.* We all need to *understand* what *pathological narcissism* (N.P.D.) is and has been *permitted by adults* to cause children and everyone else *NOW* because it's spreading by the hour, by the day, especially when the governments/social media and video game creators/parents/educators *tolerated(!),* eight, organised, *androsupremacist misogynist terrorist gangs/cults* of the *'Red Pill' a.k.a. 'Manosphere,'* have been *permitted* to seduce/recruit/groom/reprogramme children, youths, teens and young men especially. The *caucasoid supremacist* gang recruiters are doing the same. Huge crossover. The gang/cult leaders are actually suggesting or even dictating their mostly young followers *intentionally become Dark Triad or Cluster-B personality disordered abusers!* *THIS* is the most important issue here.
The students are not being held accountable for anything and the profs have no authority, so no learning or growing is happening.
@@albirtarsha5370 Students are paying? They don't have that kind of money at 18 unless their parents are rich but you're right - the schools pay homage to the people who pay the bills. Follow the money.
I’m a medical professional and the same thing is happening in my world. It’s stifling.
I've worked in mental health (I'm a behavioural psychologist) for 28 years, and it's been a nightmarish experience in my field also.
😂😂😂 this is laughable considering the fact that real medical professionals have expressed ignorance regarding the pain threshold of Black patients. Those who believe a Black patient’s pain threshold is higher or skin is somehow thicker, are less inclined to provide appropriate treatment/meds, and assume Black people are med seeking. But the opioid epidemic is elsewhere.
More with Lloyd.
th-cam.com/video/3x5vKN3ZNDM/w-d-xo.html
What a story. I’ve seen glimpses of this in my own teaching. I look forward to reading the article.
As a life long active self identified anti racist, I am so not surprised. I’ve been in 2 situations when people much younger than I am have hurled incentives and accusations at me. Once around issues of race (when I questioned in an employment DEI training)a proposition that one is born racist, and another instance when I challenged the notion ( as a mental health professional serving marginalized people) that ANYONE is born into a WRONG body.
I overnight became a racist, a misogynistic, a transphobe. Etc.
I have been effectively silenced. Which is the point. It is bullying in the name of social justice. Which is gaslighting. It is not about justice. It is about being right.
Extremely frightening.
PS. Props to Telluride for the responsive word salad!
I'm not an educator, but I have been on the Left my life. Where I fell on the spectrum has varied somewhat, but I was much further left than where I am now--and it's because of WOKE ideology. It took me years to understand what is happening culturally and politically in the US (and abroad) since Donald Trump came into prominence as a political figure in the spring and summer of 2016. I was horrified by what I saw, and spent much time reading and worrying and watching discussions by intellectuals on youtube. And it was only by around 2020, when WOKE came fully into bloom, that I really knew this was related to Trump's rise-- and it was something I had to better understand. And having achieved that through many hours of watching discussions about culture, the WOKE phenomenon, politics, and peripheral issues, it became clear to me that WOKE was itself a cult. I had personal experience in a cult thirty plus years ago, so I saw the signs. I saw the co-opting of worthy ideas that the WOKE movement completely corrupted. And now, even though I am still a liberal, I am so angry about what this mass movement is doing to society--even as it means well, that I knew I could not remain where I was. So, I swung towards the middle over the past five to six years, and now am just as likely to get into heated discussion with Leftys and those on the Right. It's a bitch being in the middle these days.
I use the Yahoo comments section to challenge WOKE articles or opinion pieces, and I do so in a way that is hardly like some right-winger would do. Yet, people just excoriate me and call me a conservative and a Trumpster and FOX News viewer. And keep in mind, the AI that Yahoo uses is calibrated to detect anything that is remotely offensive, in order to keep discussions civil. So if many of these people had the chance, I know what they would actually call me. Actually, some have called me a racist. They don't even know me.
Imagine, someone who never watches FOX News, except on rare occasions to get a different perspective, and someone who listened to NPR for 25 years and financially supported them (I stopped both in early '21 because I was no longer able to tolerate their grossly slanted, WOKE infected, news "reporting"), and one who generally supported all the things that WOKE purports to improve. It's astonishing. It's so bad that I decided I won't vote Democrat for POTUS in '24. I have voted for Dems for POTUS nearly every election cycle over decades. I'm disgusted by WOKE, and I am fed up with the Dem Party. I cannot even say I was ever a Dem, per se. I sometimes voted Repub. I have never been a joiner.
How's that grab you? Anyway, this WOKE thing has to be pulled way back if we can hope to actually, materially, solve our societal problems. Jonathan Haidt, the social scientist, said that many of the people behind WOKE initiatives are young and will be in the workforce and institutions for decades to come. We're stuck with this mind virus, and I don't see a way through this without some really tough fights to challenge this ideology to a point where we can get back to reasonable discussions about how to repair real problems in the real world. Trying to lecture society through Disney movies won't accomplish that! Putting more ethnic groups and absurdly mixed race families into TV ads wont' solve our problems. Pushing LGB+++++ stuff in our faces every day won't do it either. It's incredible how, in their stridency, they are actually driving people away and pissing people off, or making people profess fealty out of fear, through all this daily purity testing. I'm done with them. I am done with the Democrat Party. I'm not a conservative, but I am more sympathetic to their views than I was six years ago.
I sit center Left now, and that is where I will stay. We gotta neutralize or minimize extremism--Left and RIght. I'm not confident we can do that.
"... that ANYONE is born into a WRONG body..." Absolutely. It's the culture that needs surgery. Let's stop letting ppl think that they were born flawed and need healthy tissue cut away to be OK. It's the culture that needs to be OK with a XY wants to dress and behave feminine, or a XX wants to dress and behave masculine. No surgery required.
Invectives?
I left my beloved profession rather than bow to these little thugs.
@@lotusstar347 I bow to you. More people must object to, or protest this bullying behavior by WOKE youth. Unfortunately, many young people with similar sensibilities are in the workforce. They are dictating policies that sound good, but are actually regressive.
We all need to be challenged on our personal beliefs. Students should not get to dictate how classes are taught because the world doesn’t work that way when there are difficult problems to be solved. They should’ve pushed through their fears or whatever it was and engaged in the subjects at hand in order to gain a fuller picture of the issues experienced by minority groups.
Native and First Nations (Canada) still continue to experience significant issues from their cultures between trod over too. So why were these students fighting against studying them? There are other minorities out there besides these groups as well so are we going to ignore them all because it doesn’t suit our self-image? What does it say about a person who won’t really engage the subject they are setting themselves up to be a savior of? It says they’re phony amongst other things…
What does it say that our youth think they know more than professors who have spent a lifetime studying issues? It’s says they have no respect and a lot of ASSumptions about themselves.
Edit: Boys, yes boys as in children, who are 13-17/18 years old are literally functioning sociopaths until they pass this developmental stage, so why would you allow them to determine the manner of teaching?
It says the students have been indoctrinated with Marxism by the Woke, DEI leaders/teachers in their schools. And frankly, many of the issues experienced by minorities today are NOT issues. Here’s an issue, little children being sex trafficked across our Southern border that is open because of the horrible administration in the White House. Finally, those who have been treated as special (which are minority groups) for so long find it infuriating when they are treated as everyone else in society.
Spot on,
They should but they won’t. The University administration has no backbone to support the faculty and they know that.
This was in the U.S. - not Canada. However, Native Americans and Black people are the two groups that have experienced systematic racism throughout American history. It boggles my mind that the students didn't care. These are both groups that were denied citizenship, routinely had their children and homes taken away, and had laws written to deny them basic rights in the United States. Though Native Americans have often been revered as this fantasy people by much of White America, unlike the vilification of Black people, they still suffered throughout American history and are a large part of the country's history.
ETA: Since some people didn't understand that I wasn't saying these were the only people oppressed in America, but that they were the most oppressed and oppressed throughout America's existence, I'm adding it here so no one needs to send me a comment about what I meant. Thanks.
Right and this is why this type of “anti racist” ideology simply cannot work long term. It will create nothing but division and hostility all the while not allowing teachers to teach
A bunch of 16 yr olds running things like a school? Has no one read Lord of the Flies?? Our brains keep growing into our 20s. The judgement skills are part of the last to finish growing so, no, the students should not have this much power. I see his point. The pendulum has swung too far over.
"Smug self righteousness and bullying"
"canibalism of a movement". We have to find a way toward creative transformation
The sad thing is that this professor seems to teach with a lot of empathy and consciousness about how he's conducting the class, and even that wasn't enough to keep his course from going off the rails. I'm not sure how the students expected to learn about these important topics. One thing that's missed is the audacity of the students to organize and lecture this man on his methods with their manifesto. This is pretty scary when you think of all the educators who are throwing in the towel.
I give a lot of credit to the interviewer for trying to propel this dialogue forward. You unfortunately don’t get that in many media sources so I really appreciated it.
It shows to some extent that this professor had a great deal to say but restricted himself to the point that the main focus was lost. Which to me expresses the power of mon based or as the professor termed “cult-like” rule. Even in this discussion he started to tone back his original point which is substantive to ineffective help the tendencies of emerging young social political theory. The “cancel-culture” phenomenon, which was primarily isolated 4-5 years ago, has now gained momentum that hinders free thinkers to confront hard questions. Also we must never forget that the pendulum of power especially in unstable democracies, like the United States, always swings the other direction. We don’t want to fuel cancellation of thought in one direction because it could be used to justify cancellation and oppression of things we happen to agree. Totalitarian structures almost always form from the thinking “I have the best way therefore I forbid you from hearing this, doing this, learning that. Etc.”
This is how are children are being taught. I heard it when my son was taking classes from home during COVID and it was chilling.
I feel " unsafe" in this ridiculous world where you can be cancelled whenever you disagree with the ignorant masses.
This sorry outcome at the Telluride Association is yet another example of allowing the inmates to run the asylum, a phenomenon that is increasingly becoming the norm in these settings as well as on college campuses. I listened to Lloyd recount this recently on Glenn Loury's podcast. When John McWhorter asked Lloyd why he didn't confront Keisha (the 'teaching assistant') and inform her that he is running the class and if she couldn't accommodate herself to that she should leave, Lloyd dodged the question. Education has always been an authoritative process. By all means there should be free exchange of ideas and debates, but order and not caving to the whims and fragile egos of the students should be the rules. A student experiencing trauma by the sound of the word "Negro"? Give me a break!
@Jamaal Truth,
Indeed!
It's called *narcissistic mobbing.*
Man, you said it and I could not agree more.
What about the NAACP?
If someone with light colored skin said the word nigger they'd probably just die right there, right?
@@emilywilson7308 What is the question?
"Collapse of a differentiation of spaces" is an apt and very democratic way to describe the phenomena...the disrespect for educators sounds perilously close to the re-education of teachers by the Red Guard during the Chinese Cultural Revolution--and most teenagers have no idea what that even is, unfortunately.
As a parent of teens, I can relate to the censorship aspect and know firsthand how easily triggered that age group can be. While I appreciate and commend their ideals, I know that ultimately it's my job as a parent to point out to them when they are being self-righteous/smug; the luxury of being young (ignorant of how insanely good their patch of the world is) and inexperienced (jobless and rolling in free-time) makes it nearly impossible for them to truly understand the views of half the country. And that college is for learning, not staging a coup with your friends.
Wish there were WAY more like you. While we can all correctly point out the deficiencies in current education and social media, it's also a huge lack of exposure to emotionally intelleligent adults and plain old parenting. Parents who are absent because they have to work too much, or because theyWANT to be avoidant.
I'd say parent and parental figure. Not all kids are fortunate to have parents around them. Some live with grandparents, aunts and uncles, etc.
Come to think of it, this is probably the result of 5-10 years ago people getting too hooked on social media, they don't have time for proper conversation with one another anymore even at home and at the dinner table.
Largely because the education system in the West has been influenced by Paulo Freires Critical Paedogy. He was inspired by Maos Cultural Revolution. Suggesting " it was the genial concept of the century".
In Ireland we have adopted it from the US and the chaos is already beginning.
This has nothing to do with anti-racism, this is just oversensitive echochambering. Democracy is hindered when it’s a simple majoritarian. Things should involve compromise and dissent.
And Venezuela wasn't really socialist either.
@@TomdeSabla idk if you’re sarcastic but yeah, that’s true
@@kx7500 whenever socialism doesn't produce a good outcome, then we know one of two things: either it wasn't "really" socialism or the problem was the people running the system.
It's never the fault of socialism itself.
And the same with anti racism. There's nothing wrong with anti racism, instead it's (fill in the blank with some nonsense jargon like "oversensitive echochambering")
Sum up with more genuflection to "democracy" blah blah.
@@TomdeSabla define socialism real quick and tell me how it fit that definition. You got no arguments lol.
@@kx7500 "The United Socialist Party of Venezuela is a left-wing to far-left socialist political party which has been the ruling party of Venezuela since 2010. "
So, the ruling party defines itself as socialist. At this point no definition is necessary unless you want to claim that a socialist party isn't really socialist and doesn't understand what socialism is.
If you want to die on that hill I can't stop you bruh.
It goes too far when kids literally cancel/purge/expel kids from the group. They should have had one on one discussions with these kids to evaluate their maturity and openness to new ideas as well.
They needed to learn how to challenge their biases before this class!
Elite babies, guau that's difficult
This is how facism grows.
folks need to study history!. this kind of behavior is a pattern in a lot of these revolutionary GROUP THINK mob rule behavior. COMRAD...
I love that idea - to "differentiate spaces"... for the purpose of grappling with these concepts and ideas, as difficult as that may be.
We need our children to understand that "uncomfortable" is not the same as "unsafe", and that they can learn resilience in the face of uncomfortable when the potential outcome is greater than the discomfort of the original problem. When did parents and our schools decide that was a skill not worth learning?
Being uncomfortable can be unsafe to people when it is a question of their own identity and they think in black and white without shades of grey. Thinking in black and white has been a national trend since 2011 and it leads to the end of rationality.
I’m extremely happy to be a retired educator-😢 sad that the suffering of indigenous First Nations wasn’t worth it to the TA
I believe that they rejected those lessons because they didn't know enough to disrupt the lesson.
We are finished as a nation
Do students like these see democracy simply as the unquestioned dictatorship of the biggest group?
It’s complicated, and shutting each other down, is perfectly supporting our path towards authoritarianism.
Challenging the privilege of the elites’ young? I taught Spanish at a La Jolla middle school. I taught the colors- yeah they tried it with the word for black. I was fired despite 23 years of top evaluations. Keep on fighting the good fight, Professor. Thank you
you cannot be serious. Please, please, tell me this is not true.
Seriously? You taught them the word black in Spanish and got fitted for saying “negro”? That’s is completely bonkers. That’s the word! What are you supposed to teach?
@@BuhodePiedra it was retaliation - the bimbo chief of staff got there on her back and would be written up by the state for federal program compliance. She fired everyone who knew she was incompetent. She did this for 15 years, now she’s in DC on a special appointment by our president.
so sorry! so unjust! hope you are okay and have a new position.
@@BuhodePiedra You're supposed to teach exactly what they tell you to teach and nothing else.
This is such an important topic. Wow. I'm so grateful I went to school during a period in which critical thinking was taught and that it included being able to take either side of any argument. Emotionally wrenching? Sometimes, absolutely. But I'm so grateful for the intellectual and emotional strength it built within me to face it anyway.
Glad the mainstream media is finally covering some of these stories. This sort of stuff has been going on for years now, as anyone who follows McWhorter, Lowry, Coleman Hughes or Jerry Coyne knows. Or anyone who reads Quillette.
Yep and I remember being disturbed that mainstream media didn’t even cover the evergreen incident . A professor was hunted down by a group of racist students and only Fox covered it. What a shame
The Professor here is an proponent of anti-racism and was teaching a course on anti-blackness. If he's whistleblowing, he may be a better advocate than the names you mentioned, all of whom oppose the anti-racism movement.
Thank 🙌 we still have educators willing to put up a good fight because you don't get paid enough and mostly likely your vacation days outside of summer isn't enough either!! All of America's debt from where doeth spring forth?!
It’s the “Elephant in the Dark” all over again. That story-in its original form-is well over 3000 years old and yet so few have learned its lesson.
I feel sorry that this very likable person had such an experience because students who want to learn should be open to all ideas. On the other hand, I am grateful that he did have this experience because it affected his thinking and made him write about it-I am afraid many teachers (I was one of those) just absorb the negativity and try another approach. I too have come around to agreeing with John McWhorter about upholding academic excellence instead of catering to the majority or peers. Professor McWhorter reminds me of Bill Cosby telling young black men to dress and behave in conformance with The Establishment, but that’s my personal inner conflict. Thanks to Professor Lloyd for his ability to learn from all students and reconsider his own views.
This guy doesn’t come off as extremely likable to me at all. It’s funny that he is basically arguing that the students have no clue what a seminar is… and in the spirit of seminar he didn’t properly platform their position in good faith he completely derided their position the entire time. He asking them to do something he wldnt even do.
The 2 models you have chosen indicate your prejudice. Both Cosby and McWhorter are ready to throw people under the bus for their own profit. You should ask yourself why it's the black youth attire that is considered a sign of danger and repressed while the white kids fashion infractions are viewed like youthful indiscretions?
@@skribblylacroix3251 No, the high school students sound like entitled brats trying to control the class. This attitude is prevalent in Western schools.
Wow, how do you see him as "very likable?" Before seeing this comment I actually thought he was extremely unlikable based on this interview.
@@skribblylacroix3251 he is very suspect. I cant imagine teaching a summer seminar of high schoolers and then being the only staff there who felt the need to write an article about it publicly in a manner to flame culture war and tension. Bad faith.
Thanks, Dr Lloyd. I was a white anti-racism educator for 25 years. In one of my final years of teaching college students from a syllabus revolving around Blackness, three Asian women called me a racist because I wasn't talking about them. Of course, I understood their feeling of exclusion, but they'd committed to the highly detailed syllabus beforehand. The whole experience left me so dispirited that I came to welcome retirement. Woke is far better than asleep, and learning justice and compassion for those who are not us--at any age--is still best for all of us.
I feel for Professor Lloyd. We are losing out on the best educators and we are failing the kids. They do not seem to be able to handle anything. Brain Drain! Anti Science, Anti intellect and down right anti Humanity!
I'm not a teacher. I'm not a college graduate. If a word was said from a historical record that upset someone. That person should have step out of the class until they felt better. A class should have some structure. If I understood what happened correctly, I am open to the possibility that I am missing something critical, the students were not mature enough to learn the lesson dispassionately.
I read his article. It sounds like the seminar was taken over by a bully. Vincent Lloyd seems like a very kind person. It is a shame that a charismatic teen saw fit to take the reigns and ruin what could have been a very valuable educational experience.
My feeling is the point is that the other students let her do it. In a workshop with some of the brightest students in the country, one person shouldn’t have been able to silence opposing points of view
@@seanmcmurphy4744 Certainly they let her. I doubt that was the other students' intent as they were receptive to the professor when not in the lead student's presence. The seminar is designed as an egalitarian experience, but the bully student did not respect that.
It was not a teen who is alleged to have taken the reins in his article. It was a factotum, a college-aged (usually) person who supervises and facilitates the teenage students, who is described as having done that. Just wanted to make that point clear for anyone following this.
facilitates interactions between students*
@@kennethpalmer6876 That person of college age might still be 18 or 19...
Can we just round up these crazies and have them put in one place and have them indulge in what they want
College should be a place to discuss anything. Another issue is that Florida law about keeping children comfortable with what is in textbooks. What about the comfort of a student who sees history whitewashed by leaving out important details due to a governor like Dis Ain't Us?
That moniker is spot on!
💯
I totally agree. I asked a guy about that. Consider my mom who was born in 1950s, Georgia. She was taught terrible things about her people, there was no consideration for her feelings towards this. I kid you not, my mother didn't know we came from Africa. So, her mom didn't know. Madness
DeSantis is being looked at for his 2006 JAG appointment to Guantanamo. (Witnessing the administering of torture) The suspension of Habeas Corpus and the offshoring of torture. (Guantanamo Bay, where detainees were held indefinitely, without charge, while simultaneously being tortured by the CIA)
@@ndeamonk24. What you just said is an absolute lie. Your mother knew her history went back to Africa, but she sounds really smart. Instead of accentuating her history, when there is no future in the past, she chose to live her American life.
@Shawna Weesner ????? Is there a cause for your ignorance? How do you know my mother? What are you even taking about?
Seems like those young children's minds are already closed.... sad and scary....
As a clinical psychologist I see the types of thinking these students exhibit in my anxious and depressed clients: emotional reasoning (if I feel it, it is true), all-or -nothing thinking (you’re for us or against us; hurtful words are the same as harmful actions), I can’t stand it (I’m weak and fragile, easily destroyed). These do not lead to vigorous debate or engagement with those with whom we disagree. Lukianoff & Haidt “The coddling of the American mind” discusses these issues on campus.
Thank you for sharing. As a 58 year old African American/Black female, all the history that I learned in the 70 and 80s, hurt me. However, it was something that I needed to know/learn - THE TRUTH. How can anyone say that they will only learn what makes them feel good, or what they agree with. It does not make sense.
how can we profs address these types of thinking in the classroom in a way that supports students psychologically? who would be good to read for these techniques?
There's been an inexorable increase in all-or-nothing thinking since 2011 which leads to anger, depression, and inflexibility of thought. If everything has to be either good or evil and there's nothing in between except everything in life, you can't think rationally or learn. It isn't just these students - you can probably see it in the comments here without too much trouble. It's far too easy for Americans to fall into this since our intellectual life was founded by Puritans and we never outgrew their mental habits.
Cluster B personality disorders
This sounds a lot like the language young people used during the Cultural Revolution in Maoist China.
Reminds me of what happened after the Protestant reformation with the Anabaptists reading the New Testament and determining Martin Luther didn’t go far enough based on their reading of the text and creating a new class of heretics. It did not go well.
Anyone harmed by a word may belong in nursery school rather than preparing for college.
Dinosaur here. Born in 1952. We memorized multiplication tables and state capitals. We also lived during desegregation, and it was parents who objected. Rote learning has purpose, to process information, but it does not determine character. Indulgence, material or emotional destroys it.
It's a current trend to expunge from literature classes texts, even by writers of color, containing language that creates a special burden, so the argument goes, for students of color. This is ironic, since it wasn't too long ago that there were calls for the inclusion of these very texts on the grounds--correct, in my view--that their exclusion was informed by historic racism.
We’ve produced a generation of mamby-pamby children in adult bodies, unable to handle even the slightest challenge to their ideas.
I am a lifelong Liberal and these over sensitive little brats are now running the universities. It’s really quite shocking.
Really? Shocking? Hmmm. Liberalism tends to become more and more extreme and radical. It ends up being an authoritarian cult. Like communism. Notice that war abroad and weaponized government at home has become ok with liberals now. As long as the weapons are pointed at their enemies. I used to think liberalism was a peace loving antiwar political belief. How foolish of me
The natural question to ask is where did these children learn this philosophy and value system? Did they learn it from their radicalized parents? Or is this being taught at their schools? Did I miss it because I heard no one in the video mention the liberal value of free speech? It seems to me, we have extremism on the Left and on the Right with illiberal views being advocated by both sides. If these children are the Ivy bound elites in training, I really fear for our country.
These students were not prepared for a university/college class. I would recommend a survey before students attend. Not sure the organization would be OK with that, but something needs to be done to prepare the participants for a liberal discussion.
These are supposed to be the best and the brightest….Ivy League bound students, who likely are taking AP (college credit) classes in high school.
@@anneb889 supposed to be proven to not have been ready. I’d have them sign a pledge. AP is just a scam for high schools anyways.
The kids are brilliant. What really happened was, the TA was a psycho
I actually watched Lloyd speaking with Glen Loury and John McWhorter on the Glen Show a few weeks ago. It’s crazy how life can happen. While the professor didn’t condone this behavior he was sympathetic to a degree. To see someone who was an ally get turned on for pursuing his intellectual interests is crazy. This new wave of PC is complete insanity.
Discussing race and inequality in college 15 years ago was exciting, eye-opening, and it was alsoa little bit messy. It's disconcerting to see this very process unraveling from the bottom-up. The sad thing is that, for many students, this experience may be there only chance for historical context and broader understanding of the complex machinations of racism, but they will miss out if just talking about it is considered assault.
And these students are supposedly the best of the best. We are in trouble.
Sounds to me like a rouge TA/coordinator/assistant, with 21 hours of the student's day vs. 3 hours for the professor, had an agenda (against the professor and the seminar format) and drove his seminar off the rails. IMHO, the Telluride Institute should have intervened to manage or replace the assistant. Sounds like the TA weaponized the students against the professor and seminar.
Yes, exactly! Narcissist TA with a will to power.
@@prof.jezebel You apparently don't know what 'narcissist' means. Look it up.
This makes me very sad for the fragility of our youth at a point in their lives when they should feel strong and resilient and willing to take on difficult and challenging things that are true about the world. It has, historically, been young adults who tackle these subjects, fearlessly. But, if they can't bear up to the language of our history, in an educational context, whether unjust or not, how can they possibly persevere?
They can't and won't and it's our fault.
I feel that way too
I had my first experience similar to this maybe 5-6yrs ago. Being told that for me to question in any way what the person speaking to me was saying was questioning her lived experience and was therefore harmful to her. The people I know who are the most genuinely marginalized, who've had a genuinely challenging experience of the world don't think like this at all. I think that those of us who want to make concrete change in the world need to stand up to these kinds of ideas.
I know. People who have suffered don’t act like this. Such as grinding inter generational poverty. Imprisonment. Severe mental health challenges. Homelessness. It’s not a race issue. It’s class and economics.
We seem to be losing the ability to distinguish objective vs. subjective experience, which means that there's no such thing as a fact or the truth. This is what the far left of those taking a stand for "woke" ideals would have everyone believe. But this is not a sustainable reality. Some of this stuff is right out of 1984. Words matter. We can't control the speech of others without risking our right to speak. This is a fundamental truth and why the First Amendment exists.
The idea that these kids collectively agreed that hearing these facts about the past, was too hard to endure, and that the speaker must be stopped, is terrifying to me. It's mob-think. For the school to protect them after doing that...how is this sustainable given where it's logical course leads?
How best to stand up to it?
If the person you were talking to was expressing that, then they’re clearly communicating “challenging” her “ideas” isn’t what she needed. She needed validation. And no, validation is NOT the same as agreeing. You’re literally putting yourself in some kind of authority position to choose who is actually suffering based on some arbitrary metric that *you* just made up. Everyone needs to be validated. Even you. And I don’t think externalizing your experience on the topic at hand is going to help or contribute anything. Actually, you commented on this to be validated yourself which is ironic.
@@phasis racism and classism can and do intersect lol
The opinions of rich kids are sacred and are to NEVER be questioned.
To be fair to the students, they are challenging the notion of critical thinking as necessarily neutral. Feminist scholars were covering this ground in the late '80s and early '90s. It all depends of the values of the critical thinker. Most commonly, those values have been patriarchal values, for example, reason and intellect are better than emotional knowledge, the mind is better than the body. So Professor Lloyd is correct, there is a paradigm shift going on. At the same time, "meeting the students needs" should not be equated with "give them what they want so they don't complain" and that seems to me to be Telluride's message here.
If critical thinking isn’t neutral, it’s neither critical nor thinking. Also, this professor has basically been hoisted on his own petard, by having made a career of promoting the idea that something called “anti-blackness” is rife in American culture.
Sounds like a bunch of rude, poorly socialized children felt entitled to BULLY the Professor and other students. Children should NEVER be allowed to BULLY. They must learn to respect boundaries or they will never amount to anything.
It's worse than that, actually. It's not that they're behaving this way because they're rude and poorly socialized, but rather that these attitudes have been instilled in them and _cultivated_ by their various teachers following the outline of a toxic pseudo-marxian pedagogy..
My sympathies, too, are entirely with the professor. I had a similar experience as the professor in charge of a university reading group titled "Christian Fiction." The question arose of the importance of the resurrection of Christ to the Christian faith. Several students claimed that even definitive evidence disproving the resurrection would not affect their faith or practice. I asked what they made of Paul's assertion in 1 Corinthians 15 that "if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men." There was dead silence and then a torrent of rage. Did I take myself to be the director of their consciences or their pastor? Who was I to question their beliefs in this intensely personal matter,( as if its being personal also robbed it of any objective reality.) The students did not have the emotional or intellectual maturity rightly to wield the permission to question authority.
Christianity is an evidence based faith. Faith is not blind, but based on reasonable probability. Unfortunately these students were not trained to exegete the passage in its context. Ironically, Paul is presenting a very unpleasant hypothetical argument to his readers-the kind of thing this professor was doing-and drawing it to its logical conclusion. Unfortunately the students reacted hyper-defensively. Biblical illiteracy is the cause of much weakness in the church and prevents clear explanations to those who misunderstand. I wish more young people were simply taught logic, apologetics and rhetoric as part of their education. Kind of like having managing your finances be part of every good education. The outcomes could be significant.
“Evidence based faith” LMAO. 😂. Bullshit.
@@thestraightroad305 you want apologetics to be a part of education? Yeah fuck off with that.
What is with this bizarre fixation on “safety,” as though examining ideas is itself a threatening action?
What bizarre, juvenile thinking.
So the kids can get together to make a manifesto but not participate in the curriculum.
We have met the enemy and he is us - Pogo
My daughter briefly went to a "Democratic Free School" where the admins policy was full democracy for any age child.
It was totally wrong. So completely wrong.
This is why we need more classes like this.
💯 %
So they can be shut down by children? Who is going to stop the children? The Telluride Institute isn't and they're supposed to be the adults.
The kids are lost. They'll be living their middle age in a prison society. Of their own choosing.
America has a victim culture previously unseen in history. Pandering to victimhood has a fostered a culture of banality and laziness where identity is based on victim status rather than achievement. This transition has been led by the media, interest groups, and politicians. Politicians love telling voters that they are victims.
Politicians love making voters into victims.
I know its to the aburd point where people list mental disorders they have as their entre to groups as others have tried to impress others with how strong resilient friendly or accomplished they are now we are like Hi I'm an addict w ptsd what are your diagnoses?
Do you know WHY politicians love telling voters that they're victims? Because it WORKS. You're absolutely correct that the U.S. has a "victim culture" in which those who aren't white males feel entitled to take no responsibility for their actions and attitudes, but instead blame their failures on a system that's "stacked against them" by those very white males - despite there being virtually NO empirical evidence which supports that conclusion. The politicians tell the voters what they want to hear in order to get elected, and it works - every time. No one is going to be elected to any sort of office telling people that they need to grow up, stop whining and that they have a responsibility - to themselves, to their families and friends, and to society - to transcend their circumstances and become better versions of themselves despite whatever obstacles are there. It's called maturity - but no one wants to hear that. As usual, the source of and solution to our problems stares back at us from the mirror every morning.
@@jennifergottliebel-azhari149 It makes you long for the days when guys bought Porsches to get dates instead. That was equally absurd but at least you could make jokes at their expense without being called a some-kind-of-ist.
The seminar could include a section on the Cultural Revolution. Not light reading, but so many parallels to our current situation. Races may be different, but plenty of racism amongst various people of China. Be sure to include struggle sessions and the resulting madness. Perhaps these kids need to look beyond their own navels and see the wider world.
Having read the article, and being a prof who employs social justice pedagogies, I think the fundamental issue is that (right or left) students now can't tolerate the discomfort of learning/thinking so they want to control everything, in the context of a crisis of authority in the classroom caused by the corporate model of education that treats them as consumers and is only concerned with "keeping the numbers up." I teach my students that without openness to what others have to teach and without discomfort, there is no learning or thinking, as Lloyd was trying to do. While this particular situation does illuminate how extremities on the left can be harmful to the ultimate project of social justice, in this case the article makes clear that the TA's behaviour was egregiously narcissistic, effectively indoctrinating students in a cult-like manner so they cancelled both the expert prof and students who didn't fall in line. The administration not backing Lloyd up resulted in an example of how democracy fails if the authority of expertise is ignored and if only some people are given a voice while others (in this case Lloyd and the two cancelled students) are silenced. To refuse to learn about the struggles of Indigenous peoples, to silence LGBTQ2+ and/or Asian students and an expert on Anti-Blackness, to have the unqualified TA take over the class so it is just delivering dogma in lectures, wow, that is the opposite of social justice as well as the antithesis to education. No democracy, no intersectionality, no learning, no true empowerment. In essence, Telluride's support for the students' democratic powers resulted in their dismantling the democratic structure to follow the populist totalitarian TA. That said, in my classes, I do also stipulate that no argument can be valid that seeks to invalidate another's personhood and that we need to talk about the discomfort that arises as there is an important distinction between the discomfort from encountering a new or opposing idea and that which arises from words etc. that bring up painful lived experiences of oppression. Working through, and not avoiding, these kinds of discomfort is what leads to being both empowered and educated.
I feel like they didn't want to discuss indigenous people because they don't know enough to disrupt the lesson.
Can you explain further what “social justice pedagogies” entail?
@@ChristinaChrisR There are complex differences across critical, Indigeneous, anti-racist, feminist, etc. social justice pedagogies so can't be totalized. Generally, using seminar rather than "sage on the stage" lecture format gives students a voice; starting with what the students bring to the subject and enlarging the conversation from there with texts, key questions, etc. Beginning the course with building community, acceptance of difference, and open yet responsible communication. Being transparent about why the course design is what it is, what values drive this design. Using storytelling to affirm the authority of personal experience in context with the authority of expertise. Seeking to: include but decenter privileged perspectives, decolonize, diversify and contextualize knowledge, acknowledge intersectionality, find new ways to engage with and learn from expertise, wonder/question in contested sites rather than aggressively debating. Making space for students to be their whole selves, not just intellects. It does NOT mean let the students or TA direct/control the class or avoid discomfort. The irony of this TA is that she destroyed Lloyd's social justice pedagogy that empowers students to instead employ the techniques of indoctrination so the students started to just want to be told what to think. That is disempowerment. Rampant narcissism & entitlement is the problem. (Example: I used to have students grade themselves and I'd grade them separately then we would meet to discuss and arrive at a final grade. They had always given themselves a lower grade! Then the millennials all just gave themselves A+ so I dropped the practice.) Telluride should have removed any TA who so blatantly sabotages the prof, working against rather than with. No one can teach with that dynamic.
@@liza.radley In the article, it was because they wanted to centre Blackness as it was the most important in a hierarchy of oppression (in other words, forget intersectionality) and thus the silencing of the Asian and LGBTQ2+ students
@@prof.jezebel thanks for taking the time to reply, it was enlightening.
(And lol at the A pluses😆☺️)
‘to meet the students’ needs’ . . . hmmmm. Since when do 16 and 17-year-olds have the mental maturity and life experiences to properly assess what they need to learn? Seems like a recipe for terminal adolescence.
These sort of stories make me want to go sit in on liberal arts classes just to see what is actually going on. I graduated college in 2003 and even back then the terms "safe space" and "trigger warning" had started to float around. But because I was in school for engineering I was insulated from a lot of that stuff since most courses were lectures not discussions.
Graduated same year, literature major, and didn't encounter these issues. Very constructivist instruction, some classes very much pushed the edge with controversial material, philosophy, film, photography, students loved it. Learned a lot, ideas were welcomed, conversation among student pushed for.
Things are weird now.
Same!
It seems to me that giving young people the freedom to express themselves should be distinguished from giving students the "freedom" to shut out information.
I wish it was like that when I was in college. "Professor, homework makes me feel unsafe."
Too bad that’s a caricature made up by right wing propagandists. Also, watch this until the end.
In other words, privileged , over indulged children are deciding what can or cannot be said or studied in institutions of higher learning. Seeking an enlightened procedure into adulthood, which was once the purpose of a university education, has now been sacrificed to appease the infantilized student body. Fear of the tantrums they might throw, or expensive legal actions their parents might take has reduced universities to being merely very costly holiday camps .
This is interesting. I'm at university now, in a program for social workers who will be serving stigmatized populations. We've had students who said really hateful things and were not corrected at all by professors, making the classrooms miserable for students from the groups targeted. At a time when things are getting worse instead of better in terms of human rights, professors are responsible for maintaining classrooms that don't allow discrimination.
It sounds like these students are overcorrecting, but it's also hard to tell without hearing their side of things. I'm pretty impressed by their self-advocacy, but concerned with their inability to consider opposing views. It's also possible that they're very frustrated by entrenched problems and don't know how to address that.
Are you aware that stigmatized clients can and do say incredibly hateful things?
I worked for many years with incredibly marginalized ( mostly homeless people suffering from substance misuse and serious mental illness) people. Said terrible things to others and to those of us serving them.
Then along came a new crop of LCSWs, with training in anti-racism, who took incredible personal offense at things said by marginalized people, went to union, said they couldn’t work with xyz person. That they were being subjected to a hostile work environment. While those of us who tried to explain the therapeutic necessity of never taking anything a client says, or of judging said client were hit with a wall of deliberate deafness. Older people had to step in and take over these cases.
One of the reasons I left - young social workers dehumanizing / erasing the most marginalized among us under the guise of anti-racism.
@@phasis I certainly am. I'm differentiating between how future SWers and professors have obligations to behave in appropriate ethical ways from how clients might behave. Clients are not responsible to our Code of Ethics.
@@emerafey I am sure you are - but I will tell you, from first hand experience, that there are new social workers coming into systems, who do believe that a racist client is workplace abuse. There have always been crappy social workers with thin skins, but this is a whole other level.
Ethical codes should be non-partisan. I’ve done great work in the field with ethical, well meaning Republican voting social workers and cops. Sometimes they say something, and I have to take a deep breathe and let it go. My work with my (often psychotic) clients has taught me to listen deeply and held my own ideological impulses at bay
Sigh… I think this is far too complex a problem that can be addressed in a forum like this. On one hand, did the students not understand that their critical thinking skills were going to be challenged? That discomfort is the first step toward learning? On the other hand, given what is known about our society’s polarized culture, did the foundation not presume that the children would arrive entrenched?
The format of that seminar, as I understand it, seemed perfect for junior/senior college-level instruction. Perhaps 16-17 year olds aren’t as equipped to hear both sides of an issue because we’ve succeeded in creating echo chambers across society. It’s really sad, and I fear for the future of critical thought.
The teaching assistant was only mentioned a few times, but I think he or she or they were involved in instigating the collapse of the class. The TA is identified early on as a person unhappy that indigeneity was the first topic of the first week. Prof Lloyd also says the TAs were like camp counselors responsible for the other 21 hours of the students’ day.
@@MarcosElMalo2 That seems probable.
It reminds me of that video of subway rats going cannibalistic during the pandemic. Billionaires have won the class war and turned the rest of us against ourselves.
You're absolutely right. Too many people either can't or won't see that.
I’ve taught college and secondary courses and both demand structure. The students also need leadership in the classroom and they aren’t getting that. There was a lack of classroom management and structure. Yes, the kids interrupted way too much. They themselves were the obstacles to their own learning. You can question topics respectfully. You can also understand that when there is an impasse you must agree to disagree and continue to learn the material. I would have asked, after so many interruptions,”Are you here to learn and discuss or are you here simply to object?” Then I would give them the choice to leave the classroom. Stick to an objective, focus on the learning and be the leader in the room.
This is shocking. The Governor of Florida blocking hundreds of books, banning AP Black Studies and banning certain words and phrases from being spoken in class is only adding to the problem.
Distorted narrative pushed by the extremely left media that has gone off the rails. For instance, a 'Do not Say Gay' bill does not exists. I used to love PBS, not any more they have become untrustworthy, including Michel Martin. She always pushing the racist country meme.
So, we’re seeing the same thing on both sides…great.
Pretty much the Florida governor is in line historically and politically with the continuation of over 400 years of whitewashing American political black history. Truth + Wisdom = Peace ✌ 🙏 🙌 👏.
I am suspecting after years of the political right's racist gaslighting, some of these young people maybe feeling that they are in a state of siege and existential threat that may itself induce dogmatic rather than thoughtful response. Also, youth can pick up the language of a perspective faster than they can pick up critical thinking and its articulation.
@@ClunFunDun some of the extremism exhibited in the case presented here, adds fuel to a backlash. The backlash is also extreme.
The students felt harmed by the word negro, really.
We continue to go backwards socially in this world...the idea that a university has to coddle their grown students is crazy. They dictate what they learn? If we can't talk , debate respectfully and share alien ideas what's the point? There are so many "trigger words" too so I find myself being "careful"..😢
It's cultural decay at the end of the American Empire. It's a normal part of the history of cultures - rise, plateau, fall.
Is it anti Blackness or anti Tribal?
Really confused about what was the real issue going on here.
This was a case of significant projection against the professor.
So my understanding is that the students were uncomfortable about what they were being exposed to and standing up for their feelings. I had an experience at work recently with which I can relate to this sentiment. We had to watch three videos on how race is social construct and not based on science at all, and how race was used as a weapon over the centuries in this country to define essential what an American “looks like” and who is included in the American dream. I’m a black woman who is first generation American and I found these videos heartbreaking and unsettling to watch. They made me angry. But they also allowed me to see the experiences of non-white Americans on a level I had never seen before. It allowed me to understand why our communities look the way they do and are the way they are. It allowed me to sympathize with the non-white American community and expanded my view of white privilege. It opened my mind to the generational experiences of many who lived here long before my family showed up. And I think those who lived through it would be grateful to know that their experiences have not been forgotten.
I used to identify with my mother’s experience in the French Caribbean where race was not a social construct, where it’s not even an issue or not weaponized anymore at least (no one saw color in her ethnicly diverse community). But because of where we’ve been in this country and the fact that the impacts of race are still felt here we need to listen to each other’s experiences at the very least. It will help all of us see each other’s humanity. It will allow us to better understand ourselves.
What job/position do you have where they had you watch those videos?
To @sk8gritten: You have had the wool pulled over your eyes by Marxists. If you truly believe that white privilege exists, you are racist. If you feel so strongly about how you are being treated in America, leave. Put your money where your mouth is.
@@anneb889 I work for a local government agency in a very diverse community.
These students had certainly already been exposed to the learning you describe as a pre-condition of being admitted to this program. In many / most instances they have grown up with this understanding embedded in their overall educational experiences.
These kids are an elite selection from within an elite network of high schools. Kids on a track to the Ivy Leagues.
Thank you CRT
Social media, politics and the internet has almost made teachers obsolete.
I want to hear from the students. What was their process? What has influenced them?
It's hugely important to get behind this story and hear the rest of it.
Tik Tok. All of this reeks of social media tribalism.
The students were actually pushed to do this by radical TA who wanted to push out the professor. The students are young and impressionable. I would not hold them too accountable
YES! I am totally interested in the students reasoning and feelings from an array of students including the 2 that were allegedly kicked out by the others. We have got to understand this. I have a hunch that this is a combination of the sheer rage these young people very understandably feel at the racism they have been seeing and the hard position that young people have always exhibited on social issues. I remember the extreme gut feeling that was anti war for my generation as a young teenager and my friends and I going to protest marches and walkouts in protest at my high school. We had no knowledge of the history or policy reasons behind the continuance of this war and the anti war movement and I am not here arguing FOR the war but describing our state of mind and the context and nature of the high school aged human in it. We were bound to a hard anti Vietnam stance by our lack of knowledge, the easy to understand anti war rhetoric that pulled on us emotionally and by the fact that all the young people and “peace hippie type folks” who were a little older than us and the Marijuana young peoples culture we were a part of and the teenage strong need to bond with our friends plus add the liberal and left values we held and that media and our left “hippie” culture demonized Nixon and later Johnson as part of this whole cultural phenomenon that as a teenager we were quite willing to fully bond with as particularly potent was our need to bond with our friends and larger group we identified with. As such it was a part of our very identities- and that is a crucial age group for identity formation. We would never have listened to anything the pro war side would have said nor would we have sat for and rationally conversed on the situation. Because we had the mind set we were totally right and our identity as an individual as hooked up with our identity bond with our larger group. I am just describing here a mind and emotion set that I think explains what was happening in this classroom situation in this video. I would like to say this dynamic also can take place in adults and we see this same dynamic with the Q-anon and MAGA groups as well as cults.
@@aliciastanley5582 Yes, the current environment of reactionary propaganda is divisive, inimical to discussion and dangerously dogmatic.
If you don't have these answers already you haven't been paying attention for a very long time.
Compassion, transparency, integrity and accountability for all!
What?!!