@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics and I think once you had proved the issue, you could effectively degauss them in situ using a cored inductor like Bernie made up. A TV degaussing coil wouldn't give a concentrated enough field.
@@shawnbauman5463 parts changing is the job, even with proper parts you still change them. Not doing proper diagnostic is the issue. Parts cannon which I think you meant
I always made it a point to attend your seminars at NACAT. I don’t know if you remember me, but I was the guy from Guam. We purchased a scope from you many years back. Good to see you on TH-cam. I did half my career in industry working for an independent. Because of that, I had to fully grasp the “Why” and then I could just go to the service info to see the “How.”Made me a much better tech when I went to work for a dealer and then subsequently an instructor at our community college.
Degaussing is something that came as a standard feature of a CRT TV set or monitor. As the coil couldn't be physically moved, the circuit incorporated a PTC thermistor ("positor") which allows a high initial current to flow through the coil then gradually reduces to a negligible value. You could do similar but manually with this setup, allowing the core to contact the cam for greatest effect, then reducing the variac slowly and steadily to zero.
Definitely, a nightmare problem to diagnose without the scope. I'm left wondering though if the original cams could have been degaussed as well, since the new cams incredibly had the same issues and needed degaussing...🤔
So important to put the Grounds on where they belong! I we t from wanting to be a mechanic to electronics! Just understanding AC and DC is not enough. Understanding how components work is a much better option
First.... Phenomenal diagnosis Bernie! This may be beyond some, but I am an EE. I have seen similar things in a lab or on an electronics bench, (but never in car). Degaussing seems a good alternative. Seek out an old degaussing coil that used to be used on tube type color TVs. I am pretty sure that will do the job!
How come you didn't ground the engine properly and try again? The shorter spark plugs that did not extend into the cylinder properly were most likely the initial cause of the cam issue but can be relieved with a degausser in the car or a small amount of heat from an induction heater looped around the cam in the car. Shorter than required spark plugs can also back feed into the wiring harness and short the pcm and a host of other codes.
Hi Bernie: Love your videos. Both videos I saw w/ magnitized reluctors had misrouted grounds. Would it make any difference if you tried to correct the ground first? I know that misrouted grounds make a big difference. And side note: did you ever figure out what that disconnected ground fed per diagram?
Could that have been done on car? Just curious. Maybe unhook battery and remove cam sensors turn over by hand. I’m not looking for an argument just kinda wandering. Bernie wow such a mellow teaching voice just found this page . Looks like I got a few hundred videos to watch. Thanks. Just watched the Honda video my curiosity got the best of to hastily question answered. This is some good stuff. Excellent videos. Thumbs up and subscribe.
Why are the new cams more magnetic than the old ones? If that's the case, if you replace a cam on a suburu, that means you could possibly run into cam sensor inversion and create a problem that was not there before? Wonder how many cars go to the auction with magnetized targets?
Forged parts can be magnetic due to the way the atoms are aligned. Not sure if the way the replacement cams were magnetized would have affected the cam sensors in the same way as the originals, but certainly not worth finding out after you go through the trouble of installing them.
Introducing heat like a torch can demagnetize a magnet. Perhaps that may work on these cams I.E. wrap a mini doctor on the tips of those cams for a few seconds at a time or just use a mini torch that can fit in there without burning anything and can possibly save time to remove the cams.🤔
Magnaflux machine would be cheaper. This is normal during NDT inspection. They use A/C current when the inspection is complete to demagnetize a crank shaft etc.....
I remember using Degaussing wand on CRT TVs and tools you didn't want magnetised the idea is to the flip the domains from one direction to another and slowly move the wand away to decay the magnetic field.
Thank you for sharing very good information and a very good case study. The question that arises is why is the magnetism in the camshafts due to the poor quality of the part?
so, if digital1 = (HIGH) Then "do something" else : if digital1 = (LOW) then "do that" this is BASIC if the field is opposite from what the programmer is told by the engineer due to unforeseen EMF or Human error, then the system will fail/default Sir its' commendable that you post this information for free but some "uninformed" just guess. without people like you The repair business is doomed. thank you for keeping me on my toes.
Are the small braided ground straps on each of the Subaru cylinder heads that go to the frame of the car there to help prevent this from happening? here in the rust belt almost every one that comes in has those straps rotted off.
Great video but if the new cams were magnetized, why not try to degauz the original cams to see if that worked and save the customer $1400 on the cams and charged him for the degauz of the originals instead.🤔
i would never trust a compass as it is a magnet in itself. if you hold a compass too close to ferrous metal iregardless of its magnetism level it will move. i gotta be skeptical that the fact that this is no different than any other car why isnt this more prevalent. if it were such a problem wouldnt the car makers use optical sensors or use a different material for a trigger. yes bernie fixed it and the proof is there. it just seems to me something else is going on we aren't catching.
He used 2-3 different ways to show magnetism and verified it till everyone is bored. Then verifies the repair several ways. Real mechanics watch Bernie and see your comment. Why did u really comment?
the compass has a little maget needle. you put the metal object close to it, the needle will be moving. it is not accurate for testing for the magnetic field. SCOPE is really needed to fix car. Anytime I watch your video, I learn a new thing. Always use SCOPE to diagnose sensor.
I have a subaru wrx setting bank2 cmp slow response code intermittently. I scoped the cam and crank signals and the cams flip like this vehicle.... I inquired online about it in a forum and techs have stated its normal and called cam flop. Is cam flop a thing or not? Should I investigate further into the cam signals flipping without it setting any other cam codes?
Most important thing I took from this video is make sure your engine / heads are well earthed to the chassis. Would like to have seen the scope waveforms once that missing earth strap was refitted before swapping out the cams.
Had a 2.5 subaru in my shop but could not figure out what it wrong with it. Runs idle like a shit and when you step on a gas - it dies. When you step gently - it starts to rise RPM but not to much. Mb it had same problem? 2.5 engine from 2008 Forester wat put into 2005 car.
Just done last week with similar problem I found stuck oil valve for variable valve phasing (avcs) - unscrewed, tested on battery, get little knock in head and start clicking.. It was clearly on live data (most of universal scanners won't display this PID) but autel does. left bank just was stuck on 0 Deg.. Before I come the guys already torn down the Timing and swapped the ECU.🙄
@@autodiagnostykaiklucze5978 damn...we didn't check it, but i remember that those valves were not controlled on that car. engine and tranny were swapped
/does Subaru know about this problem. If so they should degauss their parts before shipping. I have degaussing equipment. an Armature growler will degauss a part.
The answer to that question is yes, machine shops that test their parts for cracks with what is called a magnetic particle inspection process are required to demagnetize the parts before sending them on to their customer .That would be a place to get those parts demagnetized for a minimum fee. But some shops use a dye penetrant to check heads for cracks and this process requires no magnetic field to check the part and therefore might not be able to help.
No Juan.. the grounds to the heads weren't hooked up causing it to find a ground somewhere else, maybe the heads were changed and someone was not paying attention.. or didn't care..
Good car gods. The new part was even worse. Imagine putting new cams in a customers car and it getting worse. That would be a extremely bad… week! Can’t trust anything.
I can't help but think you over complicated this diagnosis and cost the customer way more in repair costs than necessary. First clue was the grounds. You didn't show any testing with the grounds connected before checking the cams. Second, sure new parts can be bad, but TWO brand new OEM camshafts? I find that highly unlikely that this was a problem. If you were going to demagnetize them you might as well have done it to the original ones. The grounds in these cars are critical. I can't help but feel this whole video was just justification to sell your services. I may be incorrect, but the oversights i witnessed are glaring.
"think like an engineer, not a mechanic"... Hit the nail on the head there Bernie. Fantastic diagnosis!
Also why spend $1400 on new magnetized cams if you can just degauss the old ones? 🤔
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics and I think once you had proved the issue, you could effectively degauss them in situ using a cored inductor like Bernie made up. A TV degaussing coil wouldn't give a concentrated enough field.
Too bad most "mechanics" are parts changers.
@@shawnbauman5463 parts changing is the job, even with proper parts you still change them. Not doing proper diagnostic is the issue. Parts cannon which I think you meant
I always made it a point to attend your seminars at NACAT. I don’t know if you remember me, but I was the guy from Guam. We purchased a scope from you many years back. Good to see you on TH-cam. I did half my career in industry working for an independent. Because of that, I had to fully grasp the “Why”
and then I could just go to the service info to see the “How.”Made me a much better tech when I went to work for a dealer and then subsequently an instructor at our community college.
I love how enthusiastic this guy is about his work. I can listen to him call that car crazy all day long
Degaussing is something that came as a standard feature of a CRT TV set or monitor.
As the coil couldn't be physically moved, the circuit incorporated a PTC thermistor ("positor") which allows a high initial current to flow through the coil then gradually reduces to a negligible value.
You could do similar but manually with this setup, allowing the core to contact the cam for greatest effect, then reducing the variac slowly and steadily to zero.
A crazy case study and another mind blowing diag by Mr. Bernie Thompson. Thank you for sharing!
Bernie is the next level technician & the Escope. Awesome people & diagnostic equipment.
Great Diagnosis as always Mr Bernie. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.
Definitely, a nightmare problem to diagnose without the scope. I'm left wondering though if the original cams could have been degaussed as well, since the new cams incredibly had the same issues and needed degaussing...🤔
All of your videos Mr. Bernie, are jaw dropping
When the Bernster says things like "wow," and "holy cow," you know it's going to be something highly unusual.
Awesome video. This is unbelievably valuable information about how to think properly!
Wow insane Bernie fixes things like a walk in the park straight boss
So important to put the Grounds on where they belong! I we t from wanting to be a mechanic to electronics! Just understanding AC and DC is not enough. Understanding how components work is a much better option
First....
Phenomenal diagnosis Bernie! This may be beyond some, but I am an EE. I have seen similar things in a lab or on an electronics bench, (but never in car). Degaussing seems a good alternative. Seek out an old degaussing coil that used to be used on tube type color TVs. I am pretty sure that will do the job!
If there was a World Championship of Diagnostics, Id be all in on Bernie
How come you didn't ground the engine properly and try again? The shorter spark plugs that did not extend into the cylinder properly were most likely the initial cause of the cam issue but can be relieved with a degausser in the car or a small amount of heat from an induction heater looped around the cam in the car. Shorter than required spark plugs can also back feed into the wiring harness and short the pcm and a host of other codes.
Hi Bernie:
Love your videos.
Both videos I saw w/ magnitized reluctors had misrouted grounds.
Would it make any difference if you tried to correct the ground first? I know that misrouted grounds make a big difference.
And side note: did you ever figure out what that disconnected ground fed per diagram?
Could that have been done on car? Just curious. Maybe unhook battery and remove cam sensors turn over by hand. I’m not looking for an argument just kinda wandering. Bernie wow such a mellow teaching voice just found this page . Looks like I got a few hundred videos to watch. Thanks. Just watched the Honda video my curiosity got the best of to hastily question answered. This is some good stuff. Excellent videos. Thumbs up and subscribe.
Awesome uncle Bernie,thank you for sharing! 🙏🏼👏🏼👌🏼
Wow, that's crazy! Fantastic video and explaination, my friend!
Absolutely Bernie!!!This is a good reveiw!!!!👍
Why are the new cams more magnetic than the old ones? If that's the case, if you replace a cam on a suburu, that means you could possibly run into cam sensor inversion and create a problem that was not there before? Wonder how many cars go to the auction with magnetized targets?
Forged parts can be magnetic due to the way the atoms are aligned. Not sure if the way the replacement cams were magnetized would have affected the cam sensors in the same way as the originals, but certainly not worth finding out after you go through the trouble of installing them.
Introducing heat like a torch can demagnetize a magnet. Perhaps that may work on these cams I.E. wrap a mini doctor on the tips of those cams for a few seconds at a time or just use a mini torch that can fit in there without burning anything and can possibly save time to remove the cams.🤔
Magnaflux machine would be cheaper. This is normal during NDT inspection. They use A/C current when the inspection is complete to demagnetize a crank shaft etc.....
I remember using Degaussing wand on CRT TVs and tools you didn't want magnetised the idea is to the flip the domains from one direction to another and slowly move the wand away to decay the magnetic field.
Thank you for sharing very good information and a very good case study. The question that arises is why is the magnetism in the camshafts due to the poor quality of the part?
No because heads were not grounded
Great video ! Thank you !
why are the old cams not being degassed
Great video Bernie, thanks !!!
Thank you for giving all of us an update and follow up video on this vehicle
so,
if digital1 = (HIGH) Then "do something"
else :
if digital1 = (LOW) then "do that"
this is BASIC
if the field is opposite from what the programmer is told by the engineer due to unforeseen EMF or Human error, then the system will fail/default
Sir its' commendable that you post this information for free but some "uninformed" just guess.
without people like you The repair business is doomed.
thank you for keeping me on my toes.
When the new cams came in magnetic, I felt like you might be wrong
Maybe it was done IDK but I definitely would have checked every ground and then tried it before I pulled those cams.
What I don't get is why the original cams aren't being de-gossed. It's a 2008... but it's not my car or pocket book
Machine shops that gring off a mag have demags that would work just fine. The cams would take about a minute.
Mr. Bernie I was wondering if maybe the camshafts got magnetized during shipping by going through an X-ray machine or something? Dunno just a thought.
Are the small braided ground straps on each of the Subaru cylinder heads that go to the frame of the car there to help prevent this from happening? here in the rust belt almost every one that comes in has those straps rotted off.
Great video but if the new cams were magnetized, why not try to degauz the original cams to see if that worked and save the customer $1400 on the cams and charged him for the degauz of the originals instead.🤔
If magnetism was the culprit why not just demagnetize the existing cams?
I like it when he says it’s simple🤓
i would never trust a compass as it is a magnet in itself. if you hold a compass too close to ferrous metal iregardless of its magnetism level it will move. i gotta be skeptical that the fact that this is no different than any other car why isnt this more prevalent. if it were such a problem wouldnt the car makers use optical sensors or use a different material for a trigger. yes bernie fixed it and the proof is there. it just seems to me something else is going on we aren't catching.
He used 2-3 different ways to show magnetism and verified it till everyone is bored. Then verifies the repair several ways. Real mechanics watch Bernie and see your comment. Why did u really comment?
Saludos Bernie . Thanks for sharing .
KIKE de taller Pit Lane Costa Rica.
Hey I think you might try an old fashion color TV Degousing coil with the cams in the engine.
Why not run the original cams down to the local machine shop for a pass through the degaussing coil?? Seems like we are reinventing the wheel here.
Nice and very useful.
Brilliant.
the compass has a little maget needle. you put the metal object close to it, the needle will be moving. it is not accurate for testing for the magnetic field.
SCOPE is really needed to fix car. Anytime I watch your video, I learn a new thing. Always use SCOPE to diagnose sensor.
Where do you live at i have never seen so many videos where with cars that have magnitized parts 🤯 awsome find tho
Exselente diagnóstico Grasias se podrá reproducir en subtítulos
awesome video thankyou , good job
I have a subaru wrx setting bank2 cmp slow response code intermittently. I scoped the cam and crank signals and the cams flip like this vehicle.... I inquired online about it in a forum and techs have stated its normal and called cam flop. Is cam flop a thing or not? Should I investigate further into the cam signals flipping without it setting any other cam codes?
So yay or nay on the cam flop? Is it only an issue if codes are being set?
Most important thing I took from this video is make sure your engine / heads are well earthed to the chassis.
Would like to have seen the scope waveforms once that missing earth strap was refitted before swapping out the cams.
Does the e scope have a built in known good Library
How did they get magnetized in the first place?
Had a 2.5 subaru in my shop but could not figure out what it wrong with it. Runs idle like a shit and when you step on a gas - it dies. When you step gently - it starts to rise RPM but not to much. Mb it had same problem? 2.5 engine from 2008 Forester wat put into 2005 car.
Just done last week with similar problem I found stuck oil valve for variable valve phasing (avcs) - unscrewed, tested on battery, get little knock in head and start clicking.. It was clearly on live data (most of universal scanners won't display this PID) but autel does. left bank just was stuck on 0 Deg.. Before I come the guys already torn down the Timing and swapped the ECU.🙄
Code was not set as well..
@@autodiagnostykaiklucze5978 damn...we didn't check it, but i remember that those valves were not controlled on that car. engine and tranny were swapped
Hi automotive grand master i have a question. Is this scope able to be used in electric vehicles? Since this is where the future seams to be heading
Great.
This is a repost. What happened to the first video?
This has an extra half hour at the end for the repair
/does Subaru know about this problem. If so they should degauss their parts before shipping. I have degaussing equipment. an Armature growler will degauss a part.
I could be wrong but don't cylinder head shops have magna flux machines?
The answer to that question is yes, machine shops that test their parts for cracks with what is called a magnetic particle inspection process are required to demagnetize the parts before sending them on to their customer .That would be a place to get those parts demagnetized for a minimum fee. But some shops use a dye penetrant to check heads for cracks and this process requires no magnetic field to check the part and therefore might not be able to help.
💙🔥
Magnetized cams ,old and new. Someone else should be paying for this repair. !
This a repeat?
The new part starts at the 30 minute mark. Details in description.
It is...It's mentioned in the text description...This version is more in-depth though...
Its extended with that we need.
I remember this one also
No Juan.. the grounds to the heads weren't hooked up causing it to find a ground somewhere else, maybe the heads were changed and someone was not paying attention.. or didn't care..
bad sensor ?
Good car gods. The new part was even worse. Imagine putting new cams in a customers car and it getting worse. That would be a extremely bad… week! Can’t trust anything.
some line mechanic trying to make time created the initial problem. if you take it off put it back. this ain't your fathers Olds
This is an old video.
I would have fixed the ground and retested.
1:00:06 lmao
I can't help but think you over complicated this diagnosis and cost the customer way more in repair costs than necessary. First clue was the grounds. You didn't show any testing with the grounds connected before checking the cams. Second, sure new parts can be bad, but TWO brand new OEM camshafts? I find that highly unlikely that this was a problem. If you were going to demagnetize them you might as well have done it to the original ones. The grounds in these cars are critical. I can't help but feel this whole video was just justification to sell your services.
I may be incorrect, but the oversights i witnessed are glaring.
Auto far diagnostics
This guy is insane!!!!!!