if you have someone who's color blind in your gaming group like we do we use the wood and food bits from Imperial Settlers instead of the red and brown cubes. They also sell an upgrade kit as well.
I have thoroughly enjoyed this game, although I find the risk of the dice battles a bit too high. There are only 8 rounds in the game, and the monsters at sea are worth a lot more points (8-15) than anything else in the game, such as trolls (3-5), draugr (3-5), glory tokens (2 each), instant points (2-4), ships (4-8), extra points from seer cards (typically 3-7), etc. I have only played once, but a sea battle where 4 dice with 2 re-rolls couldn't produce 2 damage made me lose 14 points that the monster was worth and 4 vikings. This catastrophic loss was carried over throughout the whole game, and I lost by 10 points at the end. It was quite clear that an unlucky throw decided the whole game. I am not sure if this is common though.
I love Dice Tower and came here after hearing you say it was an advancement of LoW, and the extra mechanics do look great, but I'm so surprised to hear people might think of the former being "themeless"! The D&D universe is still one of the greatest created and that theme is so strongly applied in LoW!!
Try Dominare. After you've played it imagine if that game used the Forgotten Realms theme instead. You'll see just how lacking LoW is in the depth and theme that Dominare excels at. Don't get me wrong however, LoW is one of my all time favorites but to really see a theme shine try Dominare but think Forgotten Realms (characters and Waterdeep as the playing board) as you play it.
This is definitely a great boardgame, although the lack of variability justifies an expansion. I love the stress factor coming with the dice rolls over the very deterministic quest completion mechanisms of Lords of Waterdeep. I don't know if Tom Vasel will be reading this comment, but I'm trying hard to get a hold of the "SeeZam" Troll card. I missed the Kickstarter, I live in Canada and no one on the Geek Market wants to ship outside of their own country... Would it be possible to make your promo and Kickstarter products available in the BGG store for individual purchase? (I'd definitely buy a couple!)
@Jim Laviere There is a Kickstarter for this game, two expansions, that ends in a couple days. They offer the previous promos for 6 dollars, doubt you will get the KSE stuff from the previous campaign though.
Already there and quite active; I'll get the promo cards via the campaign. Anyone who loves this game should definitely check it out: funding massively exceeded, multiple stretch goals and still about a week to go!
Haha... Vikings, worker placement, and dice rolling... They made it for you Tom. Now it just needs some monsters, oh, wait. I think I'll go buy this right now.
Hi tom Just bought this game. I love it. One question about the rules, when you go to the hunting grounds let's say with 3 dice, do they return to you afterwards? Regards from dortmund
Comparing this to Lords of Waterdeep: *"battle" = roll dice to see if one completes a Quest*. I wouldn't call that an improvement. The fact that, even with more than enough resources, there's a chance of *_NOT_* completing a quest (even with the mitigation mechanisms) ruins it for me. I'm not against dice in these kind of games, but I don't like how they're used here. *_Raiders of the North Sea_* is another (different, lighter) viking themed take on LoW which also adds luck, but there dice are resources that determine how good of a bounty you get, not *_if_* you get one at all. I never resented LoW for the way it implemented theme, and that's all CoM has over it, so I'm not even swayed in that front. I was very excited about this one because I agree with Tom on *_Blood Rage_* but I must pass on CoM, at least until I try it first.
TheMrE I'd say it improves; in LoW you will lose ALL the "characters" you send, but you automatically "succeed" anyway, there is no battle - it might as well have been a cooking recipe you completed for ingredient cubes. In CoM you actually get to play out the quest, and the soldiers will return to your pool.
Well, it depends on if that's what you want the quests to be: a mini-dice-rolling-game. As I mentioned, I have no problem with LoW being a set collection game via worker placement. That's why I can play it with family and gamers alike. I also mentioned that there are more nuanced ways to add luck/dice than simply "roll to see if you complete quests". This new take is for those who like "dice vs character table" combat (say, if one likes dungeon crawlers) but also want a worker placement game. I don't think they have a big intersection with those who really like LoW. I will still try it to see how it plays (I would LOVE to be wrong), but this one didn't hit me like Blood Rage did.
I have already commented this elsewhere, but I can't help but share your sentiment so I'm posting this here to share my experience of playing only once, which seems to support your ideas. I have thoroughly enjoyed this game, although I find the risk of the dice battles a bit too high. There are only 8 rounds in the game, and the monsters at sea are worth a lot more points (8-15) than anything else in the game, such as trolls (3-5), draugr (3-5), glory tokens (2 each), instant points (2-4), ships (4-8), extra points from seer cards (typically 3-7), etc. I have only played once, but a sea battle where 4 dice with 2 re-rolls couldn't produce 2 damage made me lose 14 points that the monster was worth and 4 vikings. This catastrophic loss was carried over throughout the whole game, and I lost by 10 points at the end. It was quite clear that an unlucky throw decided the whole game. I am not sure if this is common though.
Well with the new Valhalla expansion your dead fighters can get you things or big monsters. I still think it is less than what you would have gotten had you succeeded initially, but you aren't severely punished for the risk. It adds a whole currency system of dead soldiers for dying in battle.
Shame this game is only 4 player and relatively so expensive (£40, Blood rage is 'only' £55). I would buy it instantly if it was 5-6 player or cheaper.
I have a silly question - if i'm a backer of Blood Rage, and will own it, is there a place for this game in my collection? Mechanically they are nothing alike, but theme-wise they hold the same spot. I own LoW and use it mainly as a stepping stone for worker placement games, as well as a super-light game for new players, and this seems a little too busy to hold that spot. I also own and love Argent, so I don't "need" another worker placement game. Does this have a spot in my collection, maybe as a middle-ground game between the two, or will it be superseded by Blood Rage because of the theme?
I don't think this game is for you either. Gamers who like dice combat (dungeon crawls, etc) are the only ones who might enjoy what this offers on top of the worker placement and set collection. Blood Rage is miles ahead of this game in terms of design and mechanisms. I can't wait for it, while CoM couldn't disappointment me more.
Good review, but skips around a bit, but overall helpful. Looks like a cool game, like the dice element. HOWEVER - about LOW not having a theme? Are you kidding? The theme IS WATERDEEP! For players of dungeons and dragons (especially those familiar with waterdeep) the game has an incredible theme! Players love the association of many parts of the game with fantasy rpg elements. Note: I am note detracting from Midgard, it looks really cool, and certainly has elements that LOW does not (similar, but different games).
I have Waterdeep and the expansions and completely ignore the theme. We're getting different colored cubes to complete cards. Not "recruiting wizards and fighters to complete quests". The theme could literally be anything.
Why is it AT lovers consider "fighting with dice" to be theme? Not sure this has any more theme than other games but if you like fighting with dice mixed with Euro mechanics then this games seems to fit that category. e.g. Bloodrage.
Pandaman64 I'd say that's pretty much any game. You could turn champions of midgard into a roman game Or space. Or a racist Cowboys and indians game. Or a bunch of other themes.
You could. But I still say Champs mechanics are inherently tied more to a theme of combat or conquest. Political intrigue, at most removed I think. Lords mechanics are tied to A) getting stuff and B) Spending that stuff on other stuff. 100 percent of the theme is driven by the art and lore. There's no mechanic that evokes the thought of Dnd, or the city or waterdeep, or even the conniving nature the city's supposed to have. This is from a guy that owns both Lords and expansion.
if you have someone who's color blind in your gaming group like we do we use the wood and food bits from Imperial Settlers instead of the red and brown cubes. They also sell an upgrade kit as well.
Just got my copy after paying for a restock pre-order back in December. Very much looking forward to playing it.
I have thoroughly enjoyed this game, although I find the risk of the dice battles a bit too high. There are only 8 rounds in the game, and the monsters at sea are worth a lot more points (8-15) than anything else in the game, such as trolls (3-5), draugr (3-5), glory tokens (2 each), instant points (2-4), ships (4-8), extra points from seer cards (typically 3-7), etc.
I have only played once, but a sea battle where 4 dice with 2 re-rolls couldn't produce 2 damage made me lose 14 points that the monster was worth and 4 vikings. This catastrophic loss was carried over throughout the whole game, and I lost by 10 points at the end. It was quite clear that an unlucky throw decided the whole game. I am not sure if this is common though.
Going after sea monsters is riskier. :)
This looks like a game that I will have to put in my must buy list. I can see it giving hours upon hours of fun to my game groups and myself!
One of my personal favorites. Our group hardly ever plays it, though, which makes me sad.
I'm planning on playing on Tabletopia very soon. The more the merrier!
This game needs some custom viking meeples.
There is an upgrade kit for Viking meeples.
Use blood Rage minis
This looks awesome! I've been looking for a good Viking themed game. Thanks for the review Tom!
I love Dice Tower and came here after hearing you say it was an advancement of LoW, and the extra mechanics do look great, but I'm so surprised to hear people might think of the former being "themeless"! The D&D universe is still one of the greatest created and that theme is so strongly applied in LoW!!
Try Dominare. After you've played it imagine if that game used the Forgotten Realms theme instead. You'll see just how lacking LoW is in the depth and theme that Dominare excels at. Don't get me wrong however, LoW is one of my all time favorites but to really see a theme shine try Dominare but think Forgotten Realms (characters and Waterdeep as the playing board) as you play it.
+Tennethums1 OKey doke I'll give it a go, I need a new game to buy!
Chris Hollands in what way is the theme applied strongly? id barely know the theme if the manual didn't have little location descriptions.
Reminds me a bit of lords of waterdeep must buy !!!
Nice review. Will place this on the list to buy. Thx Tom
I enjoyed playtesting this at Gencon.
Don't smack that hammer too hard on those poor dice :(
Very cool game I am very excited to eventually get this. Kudos Tom!
Since Tom added this to his collection I would be interested to know what game it replaced.
Shawn Fleury It should be at board game breakfast. He started that segment in the most recent breakfast.
Tribune
Excellent review, I'm sold.
This is definitely a great boardgame, although the lack of variability justifies an expansion. I love the stress factor coming with the dice rolls over the very deterministic quest completion mechanisms of Lords of Waterdeep.
I don't know if Tom Vasel will be reading this comment, but I'm trying hard to get a hold of the "SeeZam" Troll card. I missed the Kickstarter, I live in Canada and no one on the Geek Market wants to ship outside of their own country... Would it be possible to make your promo and Kickstarter products available in the BGG store for individual purchase? (I'd definitely buy a couple!)
@Jim Laviere There is a Kickstarter for this game, two expansions, that ends in a couple days. They offer the previous promos for 6 dollars, doubt you will get the KSE stuff from the previous campaign though.
Already there and quite active; I'll get the promo cards via the campaign. Anyone who loves this game should definitely check it out: funding massively exceeded, multiple stretch goals and still about a week to go!
Haha...
Vikings, worker placement, and dice rolling...
They made it for you Tom. Now it just needs some monsters, oh, wait.
I think I'll go buy this right now.
anybody can tell me how it plays with two players?
surfing erik fantastic! In my opinion, it’s best with 2
Hi tom
Just bought this game. I love it.
One question about the rules, when you go to the hunting grounds let's say with 3 dice, do they return to you afterwards? Regards from dortmund
Yes, they do return but can't be used for any other battle or quest this round
looks awesome, cant wait to buy!!!
Comparing this to Lords of Waterdeep: *"battle" = roll dice to see if one completes a Quest*. I wouldn't call that an improvement.
The fact that, even with more than enough resources, there's a chance of *_NOT_* completing a quest (even with the mitigation mechanisms) ruins it for me.
I'm not against dice in these kind of games, but I don't like how they're used here. *_Raiders of the North Sea_* is another (different, lighter) viking themed take on LoW which also adds luck, but there dice are resources that determine how good of a bounty you get, not *_if_* you get one at all.
I never resented LoW for the way it implemented theme, and that's all CoM has over it, so I'm not even swayed in that front.
I was very excited about this one because I agree with Tom on *_Blood Rage_* but I must pass on CoM, at least until I try it first.
TheMrE I'd say it improves; in LoW you will lose ALL the "characters" you send, but you automatically "succeed" anyway, there is no battle - it might as well have been a cooking recipe you completed for ingredient cubes. In CoM you actually get to play out the quest, and the soldiers will return to your pool.
Well, it depends on if that's what you want the quests to be: a mini-dice-rolling-game. As I mentioned, I have no problem with LoW being a set collection game via worker placement. That's why I can play it with family and gamers alike. I also mentioned that there are more nuanced ways to add luck/dice than simply "roll to see if you complete quests".
This new take is for those who like "dice vs character table" combat (say, if one likes dungeon crawlers) but also want a worker placement game. I don't think they have a big intersection with those who really like LoW.
I will still try it to see how it plays (I would LOVE to be wrong), but this one didn't hit me like Blood Rage did.
agreed, not interested in this game simply because of the dice. I'm sticking with Lords of waterdeep.
I have already commented this elsewhere, but I can't help but share your sentiment so I'm posting this here to share my experience of playing only once, which seems to support your ideas.
I have thoroughly enjoyed this game, although I find the risk of the dice battles a bit too high. There are only 8 rounds in the game, and the monsters at sea are worth a lot more points (8-15) than anything else in the game, such as trolls (3-5), draugr (3-5), glory tokens (2 each), instant points (2-4), ships (4-8), extra points from seer cards (typically 3-7), etc.
I have only played once, but a sea battle where 4 dice with 2 re-rolls couldn't produce 2 damage made me lose 14 points that the monster was worth and 4 vikings. This catastrophic loss was carried over throughout the whole game, and I lost by 10 points at the end. It was quite clear that an unlucky throw decided the whole game. I am not sure if this is common though.
Well with the new Valhalla expansion your dead fighters can get you things or big monsters. I still think it is less than what you would have gotten had you succeeded initially, but you aren't severely punished for the risk. It adds a whole currency system of dead soldiers for dying in battle.
The Kickstarter GOING WILD! Massive amounts of stuff unlocked with only 29 h to go
Great video! I will pick this game up when it comes out.
I think I would prefer Yggdrasil. I don't see a whole lot of innovation here to justify having both in my collection.
Is this any good when you've played Dune Imperium a ton of times? :)
Shame this game is only 4 player and relatively so expensive (£40, Blood rage is 'only' £55). I would buy it instantly if it was 5-6 player or cheaper.
With the Valhalla expansion it adds a 5th player and a currency of dead vikings to buy stuff making enough bad rolls a good roll
I have a silly question - if i'm a backer of Blood Rage, and will own it, is there a place for this game in my collection? Mechanically they are nothing alike, but theme-wise they hold the same spot.
I own LoW and use it mainly as a stepping stone for worker placement games, as well as a super-light game for new players, and this seems a little too busy to hold that spot. I also own and love Argent, so I don't "need" another worker placement game. Does this have a spot in my collection, maybe as a middle-ground game between the two, or will it be superseded by Blood Rage because of the theme?
I don't think this game is for you either. Gamers who like dice combat (dungeon crawls, etc) are the only ones who might enjoy what this offers on top of the worker placement and set collection.
Blood Rage is miles ahead of this game in terms of design and mechanisms. I can't wait for it, while CoM couldn't disappointment me more.
+TheMrE Bloodrage is boring.
Looks good, just wish it supported 5 players like Lords of Waterdeep does.
Good review, but skips around a bit, but overall helpful.
Looks like a cool game, like the dice element.
HOWEVER - about LOW not having a theme?
Are you kidding? The theme IS WATERDEEP!
For players of dungeons and dragons (especially those familiar with waterdeep) the game has an incredible theme!
Players love the association of many parts of the game with fantasy rpg elements.
Note: I am note detracting from Midgard, it looks really cool, and certainly has elements that LOW does not (similar, but different games).
This looks like a game that managed to achieve what "Fallen City of Karez" by Golden Egg Games tried and miserably failed to be.
Tabletopia here I come!
How can this game replace Lords of Waterdeep when it has no city building, and has crappy dice? This game replaces Stone Age, not Lords of Waterdeep.
+kdhlkjhdlk It replaces both. It's just flat out more fun than either. It's not even close.
i agree. our group likes waterdeep way more!
lords of waterdeep is much better than this
Agreed. Waterdeep is a pure euro, while this is an Amerithrash/euro combo just like Stone Age! Replaces Stone Age as more fun dice rolling euro!
+Dennis Renaissance Water deep is awesome.
Say in review it is like Lords of Waterdeep but with a theme, lords of Waterdeep does have a theme though D&D
I think Tom is saying that this game's theme is conveyed better than Waterdeep.
I have Waterdeep and the expansions and completely ignore the theme. We're getting different colored cubes to complete cards. Not "recruiting wizards and fighters to complete quests". The theme could literally be anything.
So, Jason wins this all the time? :)
Why is it AT lovers consider "fighting with dice" to be theme? Not sure this has any more theme than other games but if you like fighting with dice mixed with Euro mechanics then this games seems to fit that category. e.g. Bloodrage.
Bloodrage sucks. Very boring game.
Good stuff
I'm baffled as to how anyone could find Lords of Waterdeep themeless.
LoW is awesome
Same thought I had
Benjamin Bauer low's theme is disjointed from gameplay. you could make the theme almost anything, and its the same game.
Pandaman64 I'd say that's pretty much any game.
You could turn champions of midgard into a roman game
Or space. Or a racist Cowboys and indians game. Or a bunch of other themes.
You could. But I still say Champs mechanics are inherently tied more to a theme of combat or conquest. Political intrigue, at most removed I think.
Lords mechanics are tied to A) getting stuff and B) Spending that stuff on other stuff. 100 percent of the theme is driven by the art and lore. There's no mechanic that evokes the thought of Dnd, or the city or waterdeep, or even the conniving nature the city's supposed to have.
This is from a guy that owns both Lords and expansion.
Seems awfully similar to Stone Age? I must be missing something.
I wish they would have went asgaurdian instead.
You guys could do with a better camera....just saying
That's one BIG board!!!!!
why couldnt lords of waterdeep look like this instead of a brown and grey pile of leaves.
any 8 year olds like this game? curious for my niece.
th-cam.com/video/d15Q2F-wXiQ/w-d-xo.htmlm2s Of course Tom prefers the X-Men dice, who doesn't?
So Stone Age and Champions of Norrath had a viking baby.
Not quite. In Stone Age dice are rolled to acquire resources, not to complete quests. I would rather had that than luck based quest completion.
You do quests in Norrath. So yes, quite.
TheGreatHamEl If you say so, then I guess Champions of Norrath should get Lords of Waterdeep to take a paternity test instead.
TheMrE Oh it works as is on a lot of levels, but thanks for the input.