Is Your Culture Like the Regency Era? Jane Austen's Cultural Dimensions vs American Culture
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ค. 2024
- Do you think your culture has anything in common with Jane Austen's world? Well in this video we analyze the Regency Era culture of Pride and Prejudice both as an iceberg and also on four basic cultural dimensions. I'll also be comparing and contrasting the early 1800s society with modern American culture as an example. But you can also see how Elizabeth Bennet's culture matches up against your culture.
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🕰 Watching Guide
00:00 Is Your Culture Like the Regency Era? Jane Austen's World Analyzed [Intro]
01:23 Early 19th Century Culture as an Iceberg
03:25 Chalkboard Maps
05:00 Basic Cultural Dimensions
06:16 Equality vs Hierarchy Culture
09:12 Direct vs Indirect Communication
12:55 Group vs Individual Culture
18:01 Task vs Relationship Orientated Culture
21:02 Should We Respect the Regency Era?
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#regencyera #janeausten #culturaldifferences #prideandprejudice
![[ไฮไลต์] แบดมินตันหญิง "เมย์ รัชนก" ไทย vs เบลเยี่ยม รอบแบ่งกลุ่ม | โอลิมปิก 2024](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/qfMROCoiKMY/mqdefault.jpg)
Just a side note based on one of your passing comments. You mentioned each dance at a ball could last up to 30 mins. No wonder it was kind of a big deal when you danced with the same guy like 3 times. You'd really be spending the whole evening with him.
Dances lasted for about fifteen minutes each and happened in sets of two. (You might notice in regency books, men always ask for the next _two_ dances, or in P&P it says, 'Bingley danced the next two with Jane,' etc.
So if you danced two dances with someone, you'd be with them for half an hour; if you danced four dances with someone, you'd be with them for an hour. You wouldn't dance just one dance, or three.
@@funkyfranx I think ArtisticGym meant two PAIRS of dances. You were allowed to dance up to two pairs of dances (thus four dances total) with the same person (though not in a row), but you couldn't dance three pairs of dances with them, because that was showing too much preference for them. Thus Mrs. Bennet makes a big deal of the fact that "Mr. Bingley thought [Jane] quite beautiful, and danced with her twice." Two pairs of dances.
I think the reason so many people don't like historical literature is because they don't understand the culture. Thank you for this video. And that is a cute top you're wearing. Love the regency embroidery!
Aw thank you so much! And it’s true the lack of understanding of the culture causes so much confusion with classics! That’s one of the main reasons I made this video, to establish what basic culture we’re talking about in Jane Austen’s works. 😃
For sure! I’m reading Northhanger Abbey to my mom and we stop pretty frequently to clarify culture, manners, and just vocabulary in general. We’re not done with it yet but she doesn’t like Henry Tilley because she doesn’t think he’s flirty enough and I have to be like: MA it was a different time! They danced a bunch and he talks to her. That was hella flirty for back then!
That and probably because it's hard to understand with the old words and references people of that era would be familiar with. I often have to stop and look up words or references when reading old literature, but I am a nerd and like old literature for this reason!
@@godlesslippillow You should've seen the look on my face when I read your comment 😂 I'd be more likely to say, "Henry Tilney is perfect! How could you say that? 😲" Then again I am biased towards people who are wordy. Henry is great with words 😄 I love Northanger Abbey 😄 How are you finding it so far? What do you think of each character? 😄
@@godlesslippillow i think Tilney is very flirty - one of my favourite JA characters!
I think the formality of the time made intimate connections all the more meaningful and well...intimate. Think of the excitement of a touch of the hand when you never physically interacted with a possible love interest.
True! It’s all about the hand touch! 😂 That’s a good point. Things we take for granted were such huge deals then!
True!
Well I would like to think the intimacy or value of a connection is not dependent on its rarity or god forbid singularity. What formality sure does is making intimacy harder to achieve. My mother likes to say that you do not know somebody until you have lived under one roof with them and in my far more limited experience this is true. It must be hard to see a person for who they really are through the layers of courtesies. The excitement of a touch never felt before is great for sure, but there is only greater intimacy after not before. Smell and touch are so essential to human connection that it cannot be understated. We are not just beings of the mind, although we like to think we are, we are just as much beings of the body. You cant actually be sure that you like someone without being physically close to them. That goes for all kinds of relationships, friendships as well. The first time your and your loves hands touch migth be an otherwordly experience, it migth just as well be extremely disagreeable to you.
I feel like, while there are many differences in customs, Desi culture has a lot of similarities with the culture in Regency era. A very good example would be parties. In most Desi cultures, weddings are the most celebrated events, with events spanning weeks, even months. Like regency era balls, Desi weddings are the favourite grounds for matchmaking, especially for brown aunties. The attitude towards relatives, status, and obviously romantic relationships is quite similar too. A boy and a girl spending time together alone, even if it's just talking, would be equally scandalous in both the regency eras and Desi circles.
I think there are even more parallels between the two, but I feel like this comment is long enough already
I agree, on all four spectra Desi society is closer to Regency Era.
Please excuse my total ignorance, but could you explain what people or country make up the "Desi" culture? I have no clue.
@@amybee40 brown people culture or the culture of the South Asia
Actually, I wouldn't mind even more info, if you feel up to it! I would also love any resources comparing the Regency and Desi cultures if others have them!
@@lubnamalik5784 I would disagree with one of those spectra, which is direct vs indirect. It's obviously a very wide spectrum and very relative, but I remember my Indian roommate had a lot of trouble adjusting to American indirectness because her culture was so much more direct about things. Instead of saying, "Hey, would you mind if I borrowed your textbook?" she'd just say, "I need your textbook." Or, instead of "Would you like a mint?" she'd say, "Take a mint!" (one of her American friends joked that she must think his breath smelled bad lol).
C.S. Lewis called the attitude of modern people thumbing their noses at past cultures "chronological snobbery." I think Western culture is rife with this affliction. :)
Definitely. Especially in 'historical' fiction.
There's definitely a difference between actual hierarchy and equality versus publicly valuing those things. The US requires public statements to like equality, but there's still a strict hierarchy. Who gets into clubs, access to advanced services, political influence, childhood education opportunities, etc., are all based on social class.
+
Was about to say this.
At the same time, I think the somewhat better social mobility in the US makes these class-based differences slightly less culturally important than they otherwise might be
I see your point, but I still think that America's value of equality reaches beyond public declarations. It may not seem so from the inside but if you step into a truly very hierarchical society, the difference is really drastic. Take age for example, Americans place far less respect on age than say the culture that I come from.
Well, I'd say most of that is based on money rather than strict social class. i.e. family connections won't help much if you can't pay the club fees or tuition.
I am from Denmark and here we see other countries as being more formal (adressing adults as mr. mrs. dr.)
Because we always adress other people by their first name, no matter who they are, and who we are. So teachers, parents, doctors, professors at university are just Emma or Rolf.
Wow! That is super informal!
Same in Brazil
"Is your name not Bruce, then?"
Would this apply to Royalty?
@@sanjivjhangiani3243 Good question! Well, since very few people acually interacts with the royals in everyday life, how they are adressed may not be that rellevant to descibe the informal / formal balance in Denamark. But usually, directly, they are adressed formaly with their title, or in third person (De (they /you) insted of du (you)), like in interveiws. But if you talk to them, many people would use normal / informal languge especially with the younger members, and this is fine, and they are very chill people.
When we talk about the royals in Denmark we just refer to them by their first name, and only mention their title of queen or prince a couple of times to confirm which people we are talking about.
And with the few nobels we have left in Denmark (earls and barons), they are adressed infromal like anyone elles.
The indirect thing with dancing still holds somewhat! I do a lot of swing dancing, and I was taught that in dance-floor etiquette, if somebody asks you to dance and you really don't want to dance with them, you say, "Sorry, but I'm sitting this one out." Then you have to not dance until the end of the current song. You can get up and dance with someone else when the next song comes up, though. Saying no to someone and then dancing the same dance with someone else is considered too pointed, and thus rude.
I also swing dance and have actually had the situation described in this video happen to me; where I said I was sitting the song out and had a guy then sit with me and make awkward small talk for the whole song. I only got away by saying I had to find my friend.
I used to dance English Country (which was basically what they do in Regency era), and it was very similar. My sisters used to tell me to never turn a guy down unless I needed to or else he’d never ask me again (because I’d look like a snob).
I lost it at "finally a culture that appreciates bonnets" 😂
😂😂😂
Watching from Philippines. In our culture, calling people older than us with their first name is a big NO for us and we have names we use in place of their names. We call our big sisters as ATE or MANANG and big brother as KUYA or MANONG and many more for other people. Love your videos 💖
The US still has its class hierarchy (name on person: lower class; name on desk: middle class; name on building: upper class). But I'm fascinated by the _Dragonwyck_ story which showed the clash of European hierarchy and American egalitarianism, in 1840s New York.
The US is definitely a mixture like all societies are. 😃 That sounds like a fascinating book!
Edith Wharton is the definitive study of Euro vs American culture then.
BTW, no name on anything the public sees is upper class.
In British culture, requests get indirect nos, while factual questions get direct nos.
That’s so interesting!
@@EllieDashwood Japanese as well.
Your comment would be considered and impertinence by our patroness.
@@penultimateh766 why?
@@reveranttangent1771 I don't think so in Japanese culture. My brother lives there and even with factual, impersonal questions, they're very beat-around-the-bush
Very good tutorial! I remember taking a Shakespeare class, in which the professor spent a few lectures talking about the late-Medieval world view, before beginning any reading. Made a huge difference.
The dancing rule still kind of holds true today. Eons ago, when I was in cotillion, if you turned down someone for a dance, it was not proper to turn around and accept someone else’s offer. If you said your feet hurt or you weren’t going to dance anymore, you sat out for the remainder of the dancing
Same in my teen years/childhood. We had it better, because you have to agree to the first dance. Then you can turn down guy or girl, but without that step-sit down, can't dance rest of the evening.
@@elizadaynheart6975 - I remember the first dance rule too! 😊 Though I don’t remember anyone sitting out at our little winter and spring dances. I think all the girls enjoyed the dancing too much 😅
I am not a Jane Austen fan, but I love history, and I really appreciate all the insight you provide into Regency-era England. Thank you.
Aw, thank you! I’m so glad you’re enjoying the videos!
man when you talked about people disrespecting cultures of hte past nad looking down on them I felt that, I studied history and everytime I hear someone ridiculing or disrespecting people or customs or whatever it is from the past jsut from that general attitude it annoys me. And it really annoys me when they do it in period dramas or new movies! like demonizing corsets or pointing out some things being stupid for a modern audience being like 'ahah audience, isnt this thing silly?' is like uuughXD
This is so true! And it makes it harder for anyone to truly understand when they do that. Because if history was essentially a living farce it must have had no depth or reason behind what it did.
@@EllieDashwood its not exactly a period drama but the first example of this I could think of was the BBC Sherlock victorian era special, when all of a sudden a maid or soemthing is asking Watson hwo come there arent that many ladies in his Sherlock Holmes stories, and the whole time they are pointing that kinda thing out, and then the mistery was all oh all this women united to orquestrate this weird mistery thing becuase they are tired of being unseen and dismissed or somethign and the whole time I was like thats dumb, this is dumb and disrespectfull to Sir Arthur Conan Doyles stories
I think the way it bugs me the absolute most, when people talk like that, is when there's an attitude that unless a woman, real or fictional, was in some way comparable to a modern feminist, then it's only worth paying attention to her life in terms of how much she suffered living in those backwards times. Like, even for women who generally fell in line with the cultural expectations of their era, whether because they had no knowledge that they could have anything more than that, or were incapable of pushing towards more for whatever reason... They were still whole people, they had inner lives and a sense of self and individual identity. Their experiences being limited from our perspective doesn't diminish their worth or their personhood, but I think that's a trap that historical fiction can fall into quite easily. And I think it's telling that the first time I found a narrative that challenged such a perspective, it was in a book written from a non-Western standpoint.
@@AMinibot its like people nowadays cant accept a woman could be happy being a wife or a mother and all the responsabilities that running a house back then could bring, if they didnt challenge the social norms of the time in some way or another they aren't worth paying attention to and its like??? just because they weren't allowed to do many things back then doesn't mean they didnt feel fullfilled in their own ways and should be respected for what they did do?? people seem to think being a noblewoman for example was easy, but as Ellie has pointed out in many of her videos they were basically in charge of networking and doing many other tasks that took a lot of effort on their part, they didnt just sit around being rich all the time while being ignorant of everything in the world cause they were women
I think many modern women undervalue and belittle women’s lives at other periods of history because they have little knowledge of history and culture. They stamp their own ideals on to things and it is so preaching and false in the wrong context. In ten years there will be other trends being pushed so the rewriting goes on. I find these videos entertaining and informed. Thanks.
In Jamaica, we always use the Mr/Ms/Mrs title + last name for teachers and Sir/Miss for adult strangers, when it comes to adults that we are familiar with it's Aunty/Uncle + name (this could be a first, last or nickname). It would be weird to call my teachers or adult family or friends by their first names.
It was like that in Scotland when I was growing up in the seventies and eighties, but not so any more. Aunties and Uncles were not just those related to you but your parents' friends as well. Calling an adult by their first name would have seemed very odd to me as a child. Even now, I find it odd to call my former teachers by their first name, and I'm 46 and the lady who lived next door when I was wee is still 'Mrs'!!!
Yes. This is a thing in Chile too, we call Tío/Tía (uncle/aunt) to your parent's friends, to your friend's parents, some teens and young adults call their significant other's parents like that and even you can call uncle to your neighbourhood lifelong shopkeeper.
And well in spanish we also have the formal and informal way to say 'you'. In the formal way you talk to them in 3rd person and is commonly used for older people and authorities
@@evelynwilson1566 this is how I grew up in Australia too, moving to the US was a bit of whiplash to say the least!
If Regency was such a group culture, it’s all the more shocking that Elizabeth turned down Mr. Collins! It would have benefited her family and she had no idea she would wind up with Mr. Darcy.
As a student attempting to become a historian, historical context and cultural background are hugely important to understanding novels and written accounts of different eras! It’s the most interesting part for me ☺️
Great job! Very interesting topic. I'm a tribal modern woman from North East India and like any Jane Austen fan I admit, I do have an unhealthy attachment to the regency period. Unhealthy because we tend to romanticise it, while in actuality to be a woman in that period would not have been the greatest time to be in in terms of freedom, careers etc.
But my interest in Jane Austen had led me to write a fiction( to be released in another months time) based on P&P when I see the similarities between the culture of that time and mine. P&P reimagined in a modern tribal cultural context.
One can feel Jane Austen's subtle satire on the culture and society of her time when you study it closely.
Keep up the good work 👍
I would love to read this!
Me too! I’m reading all P&P variations I can get my hands on. I’ll search under your name
Found it: The Unmarriageables
Regency Era: It's important to show the proper amount of respect to other people in order to maintain the quality of our relationship with them.
Modern America: What, d'ya think you're better'n me?
😂😂😂
I love how you labeled the Orca as "cute to see"
I think the real trick is looking on not what is being said by jane austen or other authors but look at the assumptions they make and assume they don't have to mention.
That’s a good point. 🤔
Brazil loves some hierarchy, but it's not super visible to foreigners. This doesn't happen so much anymore, but we call older people and important people Seu First-name and Dona First-Name, meaning like Mr. First-name and Ma'am First-Name. As pronouns we use senhor and senhora (meaning sort of like Sir and ma'am). We also use titles a lot like we call teachers Professor/a First-name, and to call them we'd use "professor/a" along with "senhor/a". It's also not uncommon for kids and teens to call adults uncle/aunt (tio/tia) or lad/lass (moço/moça) instead of their names. Moço/a is specially used instead of senhor/a for people in their 20s for example. Amongst people of the same age and informally we use first names and nicknames, though, regardless of class.
Brazilians also tend to be very indirect. We hardly ever say no, we'd say "of coooourse" instead, and we do a lot of indirect and context-heavy comments which don't make sense if you take word-by-word. We also never order by saying "do this" or "get me this", we'd rather say "do you have this?" or "I'd like that".
As for group vs individual culture, I think we are traditionally a group-centered culture but one that is becoming more individual since the early 20th century and particularly recently.
As for relationship vs task, we are definitely closer to relationship-based as that's the key to advancement in a society based on nepotism and do-you-know-who-you-are-talking-to society.
Wow, that’s super interesting about Brazil! I would definitely not understand the indirect responses if I visited. 🤔
Mana, perfeita a sua colocação!
Sensacional!
@@EllieDashwood Lol, I'd be standing around waiting for people to do things that they had just told me they were not going to do.
This comment agrees my American-based view of Brazilian culture. My wife of 31 years is Brazilian and I’ve visited there at least 15 times. Brazilian culture looks familiar to US culture on the surface, but is really very different. One must be careful, missteps are easy to do. I was fortunate enough to learn Portuguese before my first visit and had to be careful to think before judging and speaking.
The Regency was also very much a culture in flux. The pressures of enclosure in the countryside, with the new demand for labor from the industrial revolution in the cities, plus the financial and social opportunities provided by colonization, were destabilizing ways of life and social institutions that had existed for centuries.
Feel like in the US, subculture plays a huge part. As well as age. I grew up calling older people Ms. or Mr. But as you get older some of them tell you to just call them by their name. Like in college, some of my professors went by Dr. so I called them Dr. but some just said call me "First name." It really depends on who you are dealing with sometimes.
I totally agree, I have had people compliment me on how polite I am because I default to calling people "sir/mam" but I have also had people totally offended and wanting to speak to my manager because the term of respect made them feel old... we do have quite an individualistic culture here after all...
@@chandrasunny Around the edges of
society, but in central heights, corporate
capitalist wealth still rules, even if subordinate people can have some upward mobility but mostly horizontal
within same class, etc. strata. If some
lower or middle income men, and a few women, can join the super rich, the
majority can not. If they give too much
aid to non rich people, the majority of
rich block or attack them---for them, their
is thus saved.
As a Latina living in Taiwan, I love all these explanations of the different societies we live in and how some of these societal expectations and experiences are still in place today. Great video as usual! ☺️🙌🏻
I would love to hear more about your experiences in this cultural situation!
I think this illustrates why modern adaptations of Austen are not a good idea. The personalities of the people may be relatable today, but plot hinges on them living and acting within a very different set of "rules" to the ones we have today.
Right, and personally, I’m annoyed at how modern adaptations are supposed to reflect modern ideals instead of representing the era. Yes, we all would love it if the regency era had women on equal footing as men, if society then was racially integrated, if servants had the freedom to take action against abusive employers, etc., but that’s not reality. Especially given how many people watch modern telling of history and think of them as accurate, it’s important to depict things as realistically as possible. I’m not kidding about this-I’ve had people cite the musical Hamilton as a source of information. When something becomes popular enough, or is watched or read enough, it starts to ingrained itself in our heads, and the more fun or desirable way of something can override nasty truths.
Today s rules are only variations of still
capitalist hierarchical society, minus
large agricultural landowners, now replaced by agribusiness co. s,
whether these large co. s are financial
speculative or productive industrial.
@@Author.Noelle.Alexandria More accurate is
to look at THOSE eras innovators, rebels,
reformers, revolutionaries and to see what changes that they wanted to or
could do. As Ellie Dashwood days in another video, they were 2 steps ahead of every1 else, not 200 by today s standards. If they were TOO advanced for their times. others would see them as insane, or attack and destroy them.
For example, in Jane Austen s time, even
most or all radical.faction of trade unionists did not expect that all UK
citizens would become voters. Feminists
in England at that time probably saw that
as political fiction, like science fiction.
But by late 18 and early 1900s, both
movements had these as some of their
main goals.
Personally, l loved Bridget Jones' Diary.
As both a Literature and History nerd (really, Ellie's channel is like all my obsessions put together!), I really recommend reading Eric J. Hobsbawm's "The Age of Revolution (1789-1848)" - which provides an incredible amount of geopolitical, cultural, enconomical and social context that makes reading Jane Austen and her contemporaries in a deeper way without making it boring. Actually one could just read all of his books (The Age of Capital, The Age of Empires and The Age of Extremes). It makes us see general History through greater lenses.
Thanks for the recommends! 😃
Yes! I was also going to suggest Hobsbawm! It's a great book and his analysis of the period is extremely relevant to the videos you make.
Another book to the iPad. Thanks!
When the episode about regency food? What kind of fast food (or should I say street food) could be seen then?
😂 That sounds delicious!
British food? Gaaack.
I get the feeling that, if I were to time travel back to the regency era, I would be very stressed out by the knowledge that if I asked a lady to dance, she had to accept.
Although americans might try to be indirect at times, as a nurse I work with a lot of different cultures, and I think as an american I can come off as very straightforward and direct, which is something I like about myself and think is a strength, but I realize I may have to tone it down in some settings or situations for the comfort of others.
Very interesting video ellie, as always. Coincidentally enough my dad just recently gave me quite a large collection of old calling cards that belonged to my great grandmother, some dated as early as late 1800s and early 1900s, just a week or two after my fall down your rabbit hole. To my dismay they are glued down on a type of thin cardstock. I cant wait until I'm able to voraciously peruse their details with my mom.
I sometimes feel my culture (I'm in Mexico) feels pretty similar to that of the Regency fiction I've read.
In Spanish we have a formal and informal "you," and while this point doesn't hold for every family, I personally can't use informal "you" for adults outside of my age range, and I address them by title (whether it's grandma, aunt, professor, doctor, etc.). There is somewhat of a sibling hierarchy, and it's not particularly acceptable for a younger sibling to marry before an older one, so I've known of couples who wait to marry even when they've been in relationships for longer than an older sibling of either part.
My northern city is known for being "direct," but compared to just about every European I've known, we still drive them crazy for how much we beat around the bush (in the same way that people from the center of the country drive me crazy for the same reason...).
There's a lot of "what will people think about the family" if one of the children were to move out before getting married that affects both children and parents: the children would be seen as promiscuous, whether the parents would be judged for not providing for their children and raising them incorrectly.
In the same way, while there is not nearly as much nepotism, it would be frowned upon if you were a business owner and you didn't plan for your children to succeed you. Even if it were because they wanted to follow a different path, that would be an explanation that would have to be provided every single time the matter came up...
There are still differences of course, and I'd much rather live in an era with better healthcare and opportunities for women, among other things.
(If anyone read all of this, particularly if you're Mexican, please understand that this is just my experience, we're a hugely diverse country and not everything will always align, as even Ellie mentioned when she talked about moving states.)
Ellie, thanks for your hard work. I’m thinking that (apart from your obvious love for the subject), you must have studied history, sociology or something similar, as you also have a depth of knowledge that doesn’t just “happen”.
In watching this video, the parallel society that popped into my head as being very similar to Regency England was Edo-era Tokugawa Japan. It had rigid social structures and roles, very indirect communication, and was a very group- and relationship-based society.
Modern Japan is less so than Tokugawa-era Japan was, but it’s still much more like Regency England than most Western nations are. It’s not something I realised before watching this video, so thank you 🙏👍🏻
Re: death. A conversation I once had:
Person: "Oh hi! How's your dog?"
Me: "Not doing so well. She died."
I thought this was quite amusing. The other person Did. Not. Ooops.
Also, we lived in Germany for a while. Me, in obvious distress: "Could you please help me?" Him: "No."
Well okay then.
Years ago I watched a documentary on Philosophy by Alain De Botton - he mentioned if I recall correctly - the theory that people from the past were happier as those at the bottom of the rung and all the way up knew they weren't going to move up and were staying right where they were born; however, today's society is built on the idea everyone can make it if they apply themselves. So if a person doesn't 'make it' now days they only have themselves to blame, and in the past they knew there fools and nincompoops and wise people in positions of power the only reason being their connections - so it allowed them to blame the system. Though, I think there's an awful lot that could be said in our current age on the benefits of wealth and good schools, excellent health care, and strong support systems; being born in the right country to the right people is certainly going to allow more benefits, regardless of anyone's ideas of boot straps and the lifting up therein.
I think that indirectness in America is another very regional thing- I grew up in the PNW which is extremely indirect, but married someone from Indiana, and it often causes weird social issues for me when we visit because it feels very rude and confrontational to be direct enough to be understood there, while in Washington or Oregon people would definitely understand when something was a no, or if I didn't like something.
Its funny to hear from an american that they feel like the culture its indirect for me as a latinamerican american seems pretty direct to me in comparisson to my own culture
yes, i was looking for the latinamerican comment. I think we are more indirect and more group oriented than americans, also i wouldn't call anybody older (let's say 20+ years older) just by their first name
Some asian cultures too are super indirect compared to American culture! I've always considered Americans to be on the direct side, but I guess it's all a spectrum!
In Japan, it is my understanding that it's super rude to say no to any request. They have the words for it, but they are never used. You say yes in such a way that everyone knows you mean no. Historically, many Asian cultures viewed us as rude and crude because we are so direct, which was considered uncivilized.
Yes, I’m an American, and I feel like Americans are more direct than people from most other countries. There is regional variation - I’m from the Midwestern US (Chicago), and people are less direct/more polite than on the east coast, especially New England. I think the Americans get less direct the further west you go, in general. There is also a lot of politeness in the southern US.
I have found that Western Europeans are more direct than Americans (with some exceptions, like the UK and Ireland), so this squares with Ellie’s comparison between the US and Germany. But I feel like Americans are typically more direct than South Americans, Middle Easterners, and some Asians. There are many caveats and exceptions though - cultures are complicated! :-)
I am glad you said the part about the different traits not being good or bad. I will add as a person from the Midwest (US) who studied in Eastern Europe - while individualistic socieities can be more selfish, I think there is a distinction between individualistic and selfish. Individualistic socieities tend to believe that individual actions added up create a better society, whereas more collective socieities tend think that consensus and group think lead to a better society. Here is a quote that sums up the positive aspects of individualistic societies:
“Never underestimate the power of a small group of committed people to change the world. In fact, it is the only thing that ever has.” ~ Margaret Mead
That’s a good point! I definitely think there are so many facets to each one of these dimensions. Trying to cover them all and apply them to the Regency era in such a short video is hard. 😂 That’s super interesting about Eastern Europe!
I definitely don't agree with this view. I think collectivist societies do not necessarily think consensus and "group think" are what can lead to a better society - rather, they realize that individuals don't roam freely regardless of context and as such the group defines the limits of what the individual can do. The whole idea that a small group of people can change anything beyond themselves is based on a collectivist notion that to change something you need to change "the world".
@@FOLIPE I think we talking about two different things. I think you are talking more academic, I am just talking about my experience. As a (liberal) American, before meeting people from other (what I have been told are) more collectivist cultures and living in a more collectivist culture, I (like many liberal Americans) tended to use individualistic as a euphemism for selfish. But after experiencing living in a more collectivist society, I realized that in practice (maybe not theory) that individualistic societies can be just as selfless. And the quote is talking about the power of an individual to create change and challenging the limits that the group places on the individual which is why I used it. I could be misunderstanding you, but I feel like you (like my former self) tend to view collectivist as superior to individualistic (or view the pros and cons as the pro of individualism is freedom, the con is not considering others). While this may be the theory behind it, in practice I have found that my original statement is more true. But again, that is just my experience (and for what it is worth, the group think and decision by consensus vs. individual action can just be a coincidence, but again is just what I have noticed as the most differing features in my experience with cultures that are considered collectivist vs. individualistic).
Yay! Love to see a History video with an ad break! Way to go, Ellie. Here's to many more sponsors and money in your bank! Thank you for all the great content. =)
Very interesting. On saying no: one of the most shocking things I ever heard was someone saying, "Oh, I can't be bothered". Also American, person saying that was from London. No Midwestern American I knew would have said that.
Something about the group thing you said, about belonging to a group and having your actions affect those within it, made me wonder about something in Mansfield Park. Does Fanny belong anywhere? She is technically a Price, but the Price family never actually takes her into account in their dynamics (except for William and, to a point, Susan). And while she's been with the Bertrams most of her life, no one but Edmund takes her well being into account until Mr Crawford proposes (and even Edmund is negligent of her at times). Who does she belong with? Both families, neither, some in between?
It is a truth universally acknowledged that we live in a society.
(Brilliant video essay, thank you!)
No se como llegue a tu canal pero estoy fascinado, soy fan de todo lo que hablas, siempre me ha interesado la cultura y literatura inglesa y aunque comprendo mucho de lo que dices, cuando vi que tenia subtitulos, se abrio un mundo increible a mis ojos, muchas gracias!!!!
I don't know how it got to your channel but I am fascinated, I am a fan of everything you talk about, I have always been interested in English culture and literature and although I understand a lot of what you say, when I saw that it had subtitles, an incredible world opened up to me. eyes, thank you very much !!!!
Greetings from Mexico!
Culture Map is one of my favourite books!!! I love this view on how Regency England lines up to the spectrums. Super interesting, and it makes sense.
I am both Chinese and French.
The French are notoriously direct on negatives (no, criticism, disagreement), but less forthcoming with positive feedback XD
The Chinese are quite direct too, especially for Asian culture.
Imagine my horror when moving to England then the USA XD XD
Me: "Is my artwork good professor? Any points I can improve for the final project?"
Teacher: "Wow, its so... unique and confident. A bit chaotic, but that's a stylistic choice here."
Me: " wow thanks!!!"
Me: nearly fails art class because she meant that it sucked balls
Awesome video! Such a clever way to break down Regency era culture (comparing it to our own). This would a great starting place for anyone interested in literature or historical fiction set during that time period. :)
A casual mention of Romania? After having to explain to several Americans where I was from, I am impressed :))))
Regarding hierarchy, my culture (Scandinavian) values equality very highly, even though hierarchies and differences obviously exist like everywhere. But we kind of do our best to pretend like it's all equal.
For example a boss will typically ask you to do something so indirectly that someone not used to our culture may think it's just a humble suggestion. But you're still expected to do it. Or even better - figure out what needs to be done so they don't need to tell you.
Thank you for this interesting and beautiful video! What you said about the different points of view people have about ancient cultures is so true! When we look back at then we should always try to understand and not to judge! :)
I’m so glad I found your channel! You are super smart and very interesting to listen to. I had watched Pride and Prejudice before I found your channel, but TBH, I didn’t follow along really well. With the heavy accents and fast talking with words that I don’t know, it was really hard to put it all together. But after watching a few of your videos and seeing your passion and love for this movie, I ended up watching it again last week and I was so into it! I actually paid attention and I really tried to put the big words together as quickly as possible in my head so that I could follow along, lol! Since that day I’ve watched it three more times this past week and it’s now my new favorite movie! Thank you so much for putting so much hard work and time into your channel. You have highly influenced me in a positive way
I love your videos so much! Thanks for all the research and hard work you put into your channel!
I am pretty sure that my dozens of marriage proposals to Satomi Ishihara have just been ignored out of polite circumspection. Certainly that must change soon, right? Right???
😂😂😂
Loving your channel so much! By the way: I’m your 3000th like 😆
What you did not mention is that the British culture of the time was brought about by an innate fear of the French Revolution. The establishment very much wanted to avoid the lower classes from repeating the uprising of the poor and did so by reinforcing the class system.
I love this channel. Thanks for the commentary
I LOVE this type of information! Thank you for this video!
I love the shade of red you are wearing!
Just imagine Elizabeth, waking up one day and saying to Mr Darcy "I have this new dream of being an underwater archiologist in Romania, bye, my regards to Georgiana."
Well presented. Good examples from Regency era literature and present day America. Nice graphics. Tiny Ellie is adorable. Beautiful blouse. It could have been a dry topic, but you made it fun.
Love this topic! Well done!
As a Brazilian, the Regency period is quite interesting to me because a lot of the things happening in Europe had direct effect in our History - England held such a power over Portugal (which was by itself under its own Regency with Dom João Vl since Queen Maria was considered insane) that when Napoleon decided to invade the country the Royal Family and their court fled to Brazil (supported by the British Navy). Once they arrived, Brazil was then "promoted" from portuguese colony to "United Kingdom of Portugal, Brazil and Algarve" - putting the country in a unique situtation: in theory we were now the capital of the portuguese Empire, though in reality we were still a colony (and several cultural shocks ensued). A lot of interesting things happened during the Portuguese Court time here, but it never ceased to amaze me how little literary work we have from this period - mostly due to the Portuguese ban of any kind of press in its colonies. All literary work that we study in schools depicting this period was written much, much later, when we were already the Brazilian Empire.
And a fun fact: Cariocas (people from Rio de Janeiro) have a very distinct accent which resembles the Portuguese. Historians say that this accent was developed around 1808 when the Royal Family came to Brazil and established the city as it's court and capital of their reign. Mimicking the Portuguese accent was fashionable and It would make one appear to be a part of the Court.
That is so fascinating! It’s interesting that they had a literary ban. I wonder if there were any works written secretly that were eventually lost. So much drama was just going down in history all over the world at this time!
@@EllieDashwood the Portuguese Royal Family period in Brazil would make Keeping Up With The Kardashians bite the dust. SO. MUCH. DRAMA.
Yes unfortunately there was no real publishing industry in Brazil back then, and the little we have access to are poems and of course sermons.
@@FOLIPE and most of them were not even written in Rio but in richer cities in Minas Gerais, for example.
Love your videos... 💜
Aw, thank you!
Ellie ... I hope someday you review another period piece “Last of the Mohicans” I already love that movie and you would add depth & insight by guiding our eyes to see with your awareness and to feel with your heart of appreciation. It somewhat overlaps the regency era culture of P&P so the contrast may illuminate both.
To your observations at the end, one crucial thing is omitted: the lives and culture of the 99% during this and the Victorian era. It's easy to think of those times as idyllic when your focus is only on the bourgeoisie and the leisure class. But there's a reason this structure was upended with the French and Russian revolutions, and later WWI: because the other 99% were sick of watching the ruling class enjoy their lifestyle off the sweat of their backs. When we look at all of these cultural nuances of the Regency 1%, what we are seeing is an elaborate system of mechanisms for the ruling class to normalize and validate its presence among the lower classes and maintain its own relevance. In other words, every single thing detailed on your channel, interesting as it may be, is the machinations of a cultural elite organizing its system of behavior to sustain and preserve itself and keep the pitchforks of the lower classes from arriving at their door. Life for the working class and the poor during this time period was unforgivably squalid- with an aristocracy and a bourgeoisie that did absolutely nothing about it.
I'm from Ireland. I think our culture is:
- on the Equality side of Equality vs Hierarchy (it's considered gauche to think you're better than other people)
- very much on the Indirect side in Indirect vs direct (rarely give a simple yes or no, a lot of talking before you get to the point)
- a bit more on the Group side of Group vs Individual (less individual than modern America, but less group than Regency England)
- somewhat on the Relationship side of Relationship vs Task (knowing the right people or being from the right family helps a lot)
regency era is actually intriguing from social spheres, the way they address people, etc… I actually want to try and write a story with a little bit regency culture in it. It’s actually a perfect culture for romance.
I really love your voice. You always sound so upbeat and cheerful. I also really love how you say the word income Sort of like ingcom or ink-um. It's just so cute. I just love different accents, so I notice stuff like this .It reminds me of the way that some British accents pronounce words ending in ING with a K added
In Hispanic culture generally people tend to call older and respected people by Don or Doña which you could say is the same as Mr. & M(r)s. or Sir & Lady before their name. Off example Doña Matilde would be considered senior but also respected. Another thing would be manners, when meeting other relatives and extended family, usually women adults will hug and kiss each other on the cheek and the men would shake hands as a sign of saying hello especially if they are visiting their home. This really only applies to adults but children also can be expected to hug older women (not kiss) and hand shake older men but kids to other kids it's more common to just say Hi. The head of households are usually women as many hispanic women take care of the house per se (but usually they work too) as many did in the regency era, but in a more traditional view of stay at home wife's who don't work it's generally viewed that the men are inc charge of the household. Spoken reference also comes tied with manners as voseo is quiet widespread but tu and usted are seen as more appropriate to relatives (who aren't close but also older) and strangers or other respected people like doctors etc. Voseo usually is for close friends and direct family members. For example a woman may be very close with her second cousin so using voseo would be appropriate. An example of voseo is "vos oyis eso" compared to "tu oyes eso" both mean "do you hear that?" but vos is considered informal and tu formal although both are commonly used. Another sad view of hierarchy is that in latin america those who tend to be richer are whiter in appearance (light skin, sometimes blue eyes and lighter haircolor) and the poorest are usually those who look more indigenous (although most don't identify as) or mestizos.
Your vibes are so sweet and pure and lovely and I adore you and really appreciate your videos, they make my classic literature loving soul happy, you’re so wonderful please keep being you❤️
Aw! This is so sweet! Thank you! 😃😊💕
In American the direct/indirect thing is based on class and culture. The Irish are extremely indirect, Germans direct. But lower class people are much more direct than the middle class. Classes in America are kind of taboo to talk about. But there are distinct differences.
Kiss Americans definitely don't like to talk about class favoretta talk about race and gender and religion than talk about class!
I believe Elizabeth is individualistic and she feels guilty about that. When she refuses Mr. Collins, she doesn't think of her group (family). The same happens when she refuses Mr. Darcy. That is why everyone was so surprised she refused both of them, especially Mr. Darcy, because it was expected of her to think of her family and other sisters.
In a way, Darcy's decision to marry Elizabeth is individualistic as well. That is his whole conundrum. He knows his duty to his family and estate is to marry furtune or title or both and not to allign his family with a connection to trade. But he choses his own happiness, the same as Elizabeth. That is why I love their story: they went against society's and their family's conventions and expectations.
I think this is (one of) the reasons why the story is still so popular today- Lizzie is individualistic and indeed quite modern in her view of only wanting to marry for love- she goes against all expectations of her duty to the family and yet somehow everyone still ends up happy and provided for at the end!
This is a gold mine of a video
I have a general interest in history but I also keep going through your videos a few times because I'm writing a queer romance book set in 1858 and you help me jump start some research or round up some loose information I find here or there. I'm not going with 100% accuracy but I also don't want the story to be offensively inaccurate. I found the video in how the titles work extremely helpful! thank you so much.
Super interesting video! I was an anthropology minor in college and I'm a sucker for cultural analysis :)
I have two thoughts about American culture today, based on my experience as a [fairly new] government lawyer who grew up in a working class family.
1) as regards networking: in my youth, watching my parents work, I understood that doing a good job/having good qualifications was the most important. Things like efficiency, attention to detail, etc. were really important. However, in the legal profession, I find that it's not quite the same, because networking matters A LOT. Sometimes it's only important for getting an interview or learning about job openings, after which point your actual qualifications take over, but that's not always in the case. And especially for federal employees, who you know/how long you've been there can often matter more than how well you do at your work. Not exactly a good thing, but it's true 🙃
2) I also think American society is a mix when it comes to formal/informal modes of address. For example, when I was a kid, I definitely learned to call most adults "Mr./Mrs. LastName" as you did, Ellie. When I made it to middle school/high school, I started calling certain women (even married women) with whom we were close "Miss FirstName" (a convention usually instigated by my mother). Nowadays, I usually call adults by whatever name I first knew them, so a woman who's old enough to be my mother but whom I met through a church function as an adult myself is just "FirstName," even though other young people my age who knew her when they were kids still call her "Mrs. LastName." Also, working for a political appointee, I'm expected to call my boss "Commissioner LastName" to people outside the office, although she lets me call her by her first name within the office, and I find that other commissioners dictate how they want staff to address them. Some are less formal, some are more formal. It's very interesting.
Great video!!! I wish I could like it more than once!
This was my first video of yours that I watched. My major in college was intercultural communication so much of this is familiar. However, American culture is not Monolithic, but increasingly diverse. I myself come from two diasporas, Puerto Rican and Jewish with different cultural norms. I think American culture in the 40s and 50s was Different and all those for Waze you mentioned. I like your channel very much. Aloha
(Melanie here) I loved this video. Great job.
I am a woman from Central Europe in my forties and I experienced a similar thing about the relaxation of social norms you experienced when moving to another state, only it was over time. I actually come from one country of the region and grew up in another, so I am familiar with two cultures of Central Europe and both experienced this relaxation. In my country of origin, the formal address is really becoming rarer and rarer, it is even hardly ever used in political interviews anymore. In the country I live in, there is also a similar development with the ubiquity of informal greeting and with salespeople or waiters using the informal address even towards people considerably older than themselves.
When I grew up, we had a semi-formal address towards our kindergarten teacher (calling her something like 'Auntie X.') and a more formal address towards our teacher in primary school (calling her something like 'Ms. Teacher'). My son today calls almost all of his teachers by their first names, only an older teacher at school is referred to by her family name and the more formal way of address. I guess in a few years time, formal address will all but disappear even here in Central Europe.
I enjoy and appreciate your channel very much. Keep having an awesome day. Bye!😀
This video is so educational and thought-provoking. Many thnx 💜💙❤️🖤
One detail that most historical fiction set in the regency gets wrong is the way family members addressed and referred to one another. I think this is a part of the top of the iceberg that shows the collectivist and relationship oriented values under the surface. Austen characters always refer to a family member by their role in the family rather than their name. Elizabeth Bennet always talks about, "my mother/father/aunt/etc," even when she is talking to her sister. A modern American would say, "Mom" "Dad or "Aunt Firstname" if they were talking to a sibling about this person.
It makes me think about the nature of formal manners and what it means in different cultures. A person from a more individualistic culture thinks of formality as cold and putting a distance between people. Perhaps people from more collectivistic societies think of it as simply acknowledging that person's role in their particular group (whichever group they are a part of that is relevant to the particular situation).
I'm from Colombia. My culture is definitely group-oriented...and I hate it! 🤣 I really dislike being associated with others, to be valued as part of a collective, also people here are VERY noisy and WILL stare at you and talk about you without shame. As a child this made me anti-social: in elementary school I refused to sing the school anthem or pledge allegiance, patriotism didn't make sense to me. Since then I have changed my views a little, I still don't understand the need of "The Group" but I find fascinating reading about it, from an anthropological point.
I really don't think it makes you anti-social if you can't make sense of patriotism. To me, patriotism is a potentially dangerous concept. Maybe one just feels more part of the general group of humans, regardless which country or culture they're coming from. I certainly do.
I love your videos, the historical detail and deeper insight into the society of Austen's characters is fascinating. Is the UK still like this - yes, in some ways but there were huge societal changes in the late twentieth century. In some ways we live in a kinder, more empathic society, but the sense of being 'part of a bigger society' where our actions affect other people is much lessened, and partly that's because we've pretty much lost the organisations which supported that - things like large employers, powerful trade unions, churghgoing - and there are positives and negatives to that. I think networks and contacts are still hugely important in this country, that's why rich people send their kids to Eton and its like. We claim class and class identity is less important but it really isn't, whether you live in part of the UK where everyone aims to be upper middle class, or describes themselves proudly as 'working class'
If you get a chance to see the documentary series "7 up" "14 up" "21 up" and so on, it highlights the class distinctions in a group of modern British children. I found it fascinating.
@@sallyjune4109 I love that series. I missed the last one though, I' ll have to check if it' s still on catch- up. They did one for America too but I' m not sure if it continued. What 7 Up has done is pretty amazing.
great video!
I’m from Asia and I definitely fell in love with historical fiction because it’s so similar to how life here is, the good and the bad.
I am from Germany, and here we have a formal and informal language. The formal language is used when addressing the elderly and strangers. I would feel very uncomfortable asking a stranger for the way and not use formal language (it just does not seem appropriate to me). However, formal language between colleagues appears to disappear in the work environment, especially in the new sectors, like IT.
Great video. I think America likes to be individualistic and task oriented but in practice we still see a lot of relationship style culture. Most people look down on nepotism in the workplace because most of us believe that the most qualified person should get said position; however, it's still very much who you know. Ever since college, I've always heard the phrase, "It's not what you know, but who you know." And that doesn't necessarily mean that it's a direct relation, but it could be a friend, an old co-worker, etc.
Ellie and her magic cardigan. A very successful preposition. Is there anything beyond you, art, intellect, energy snd a charming modesty, thank you. 😊
Thank you for the video!
Thank you for watching!
@@EllieDashwood My pleasure! The way you present the information is both relaxed and instructive. I really appreciate it.
Love the map, love the map - as a world traveller - loved the map! :-)
If you ever teach a college / university class, I will be the first to sign up. Your videos are great!!!!!
You hit it on the nose at the end. I think that misunderstanding of the culture is what leads me to disliking more modern takes on setting novels in this era. I think that's what rubs me wrong in some movie remakes of Austen stories too.
And a few comments down from this is someone saying she likes historical fiction because she thinks it gives you a glimpse in the past.
Hello, I just wanted to congratulate you, because you make great videos. Also I have a request, if I may: would you be so kind and explain in a video the dresses in Regency England, because I don't understand the sentence in Pride and Prejudice, when Elizabeth Bennet went to Netherfield to care for Jane, with her petticoats muddy and Miss Bingley said that her dress let down to cover it didn't make its office, or something like that (English is not my language). It left me wondering if the ladies went about with her skirts up and the petticoats exposed, for everyone to see them. If the skirts were upon, how up? to the knees? were they pinned or tied or something else? I sincerely hope you can answer my question. Again, I congratulate you and can't wait to watch another one, they are truly entertaining (sorry for misspellings or bad grammar, I did my best)🌷😻
Love this breakdown!!
I feel like the US likes to think of itself as a task based society but man, the relationships really do make or break you on average..... and if your family can "teach you the family trade" even the nepotism only gets called out by people getting hurt by it, and everyone else just seems cool with it?
Also, I think while we like to tout equality, celebrity culture and the like do sort of push us towards a class and money distinction for hierarchy. Which isn't ideal, but I'm not sure i can comfortably get behind the idea that we did break out of class strata after all.
I like the idea of appreciation of culture with an eye to how it compares with what we do now and what that reveals about us positive or negative.
Right. Where Ellie went amiss is that our ideals and the reality don’t align. Upward mobility through hard work can happen, but I guarantee you that there will come a point were who you know is what will matter, and if you know the right people, you will start at the top. There is no better proof of this than the mere fact that applications almost always want references, and if you know people in the industry already, or who have prestigious job titles, who are willing to vouch for you, then who you know just helped give you an advantage over someone who doesn’t know people who are so respected.
I also grew up calling people Mr. or Mrs. so-and-so. Now when former students who are now adults see me they still call me Mrs. Lockwood. I tell them “you’re an adult now so you can call me by my first name” (which I have to tell me what it is because they have no idea!😆)
😂 That’s so funny!
I just love the way you ask for people to hit the like button. ❤️🥰😂
Interesting with the dimensions, I'll keep those. Would be interesting to see a comparision with contemporary England though. I would guess there is a USA/England-difference here as well, not just the history-modern.
Hey Ellie, I really want to hear your opinion on the TV show Sanditon and the character of Lord Babington. As far as I understand, he doesn't appear in the novel, and feels a bit overpowered in the TV show (Friend of the Prince Regent [I assume George IV??], stupidly big estate etc etc) but he is also feels the most Austeny of the male leads in that interpretation. He's super sweet and he and his girl get their happily ever after.
Great points about cultural variety throughout history and around the world, really.
I was raised by parents that grew up in socialism, and think my part of the country retained some cultural aspects of the socialist state (state control + indoctrination + group focused work circumstance) .. while I was raised in a more individualistic culture myself, there seems to be a higher degree of "group think" left compared to other parts of the country (I'm from former GDR)
Regarding formality/directness: I was taught to "be polite, don't waste other people's time" which translates to: say yes when you mean yes, say "thank you, but no" when you mean no, and say "I'll think about it" if you're going to think about it before making a decision. And I was taught to address people of the older generation with their respectful title (so, no calling the parents by first name, aunts and uncles are always "aunt X, uncle Y", grandparents "grandpa Z" etc, and people outside the family or closer social circle were ALWAYS Mr/Mrs) .. now, as an adult, I still feel slightly scandalized at people not using proper forms and would never consider calling a stranger by their first name polite behaviour, unless they're clearly a child or I met them in special circumstances (like uni, choir, scouts) .. but I've also never lived in countries that had *less* formality, despite having lived in very different cultures as well.
Thank you for a very enlightening lecture, Ms Dashwood. I have always felt uncomfortable seeing modern (read American) interpretations of Regency and Victorian literature, without being able to put my finger on why. Now I know. Thank you!