Purchased an Ixion Hale last month at Adepticon, price: $75. Purchased an Ixion Hale from China, price $15. Did a comparison, the Chinese one had sharper lines, and better quality resin. Link to photos comparing the two here: imgur.com/a/r4wUP I don't mind supporting Forgeworld, but if their quality is crap, I also don't mind buying something that has better quality control, better customer service, and better price
I'm going to pin this post, at least for a while, not because I'm condoning it, but because it's a great comparison for people to see so that they can judge for themselves. ~M
Since FW beginning in the 90's they have problem with long run quality if the demand on the model drop. Short story: Your Ixion was probably casted on used mould. fter the released hype. Long story: Back then (90's) I've bought two Leman Russ Vanquisher turret kit 1.5 year apart. The first one near the released date was very fine (except the stupid design flaw: the attaching part to the hull is far too small by 0.5cm, and the plastic hatch didn't fit). The second one was terrible... the worst was a pronounced mould line on the barrel and air bubble instead of rivet on 30% of them. The cast look amateurish, and it was. (btw the customer service was inexistant i.e it's part of the hobby, it improved after, then decline). Only the "master collector pieces" like bust and statue were perfect (not the same resin i.e. longer casting time). Even now the problem is still there, I had the same issue with Death Shroud, Krieg infantry and eldar Shadow specters. With the quality control card they said it was check ... and you can understand the "don't fool us with your recast swap or freebee extortion". Btw they probably have these problem with some customer. So now I look on some second hand site to find the parts I need at low cost.
Dude, thanks so much! I didn't know PillPit nor DHgate, great to have another recaster as an option! BTW did you buy anything From Peterwork there? Do you know if he's legit?
All that GW/FW has to do to end the recast market is provide a decent product for a decent price with decent fairly-priced shipping, also make all minis available. They should look at iTunes and MP3 piracy.
You missed the fact that Forgeworld out sourced to China during apocalypse era. No joke there were UK residents getting Forgeworld with made in China labels. This was a bad choice
A for recasting point for myself. I would not have gotten into 30k were it not for the casting scene (and their quality casts). The price was far too prohibitive to collect a full 30k army and attend events and I know for a fact that there are a good chunk of the 30k community in the same boat. Pricing of 40k is something that is subjective based on your income but I do feel like GW has priced itself out of the market in the last few years.
The topic of recasters isn’t going to disappear for sure ;) Great discussion and points mate, I look forward to your piece on the tax regime and pricing between the UK and Australia. Thank you for the shout out as well, it’s much appreciated.
Well it was logically a great video to link to, as the quality control and mold situation is a key component in the rise of recasting IMO. Rather than go into the topic in full, it made far more sense to link to you as you'd already tackled the subject.
I mean after their whole debacle "Warhammer is for everyone, BUT" & their recent price hike / cursed city bs, only way I would ever get into the tabletop is by getting recasts.
Excellent and balanced video. For me I use recast because of the Australia tax, the Forgeworld quality issues and the fact that I feel like I am supplementing a failing model. GW stores are absolutely rubbish in Australia and I don't think they should exist, I feel like every time I buy something from GW I am paying 20-30% more just because they want to keep a poor retail presence. I can't play in their stores (they never have 6x4 tables and are rude to players) and every other game store I have been to has been far more welcoming of gamers and provide far better players. Why pay to subsidize all of this?
I hope you all enjoyed the episode, please leave your dislikes and comments in the chat! Check out Leaky Cheese's video "A Farewell to Triaros" th-cam.com/video/_9qUZGwCHi8/w-d-xo.html
didn't know about recasting until i saw you do a video on it. although i suppose since i started this year i would have to have found out about it eventually
I have gone to make a video detailing do and do-not's several times. I don't overly want to use people's work in it because rather than accept that I'm right in my criticisims, people instead attack me as they perceive e as being a prick for pointing out major faults. As an example the Armies on Parade videos where I show numerous problems and 'winners' and ask on what planet they deserved to win. The only way I will pull off the video is if I use my own parts and build from scratch.
I bought an Imperial Knight a few months back, and at the time due to the conversion rate, it was actually cheaper for me to buy a knight from FW, than it was to drive into town and get one from the local GW. And if I went to a recaster, it would have been less than half of that price. I don't blame people going for recasters at all. That is pretty fucked up.
You're even more fucked if you want to get into a FW army, like Krieg. A recasters cost for a tank, artillery, cavalry, some squads and HQ, about 320 Dollars, VERSUS FW's 680 Dollars. With prices like that, no wonder Recast is a thing.
Greater Brass Scorpion, ~£50, cheaper plastic, but sits well with my legit £160 FW model. As a UK resident, I have access to 3rd party at - 10-30% of GW. "Drop your prices and I will come back"
Good topic Macca. I had many friends into Warhammer when we were younger, though not too many now. The 3 friends that are still into the hobby were around from the late 90s. Any new people I meet that have shown any interest in this, quickly dissipates (and rightfully so) as soon as they see how much this hobby cost. I think that GW expanded way too fast. I remember there were Games Workshop stores throughout N.S.W., even in Westfields shopping centres. The stores had multiple staff and was full of customers. They ran Games day events, had store openings with organised transportation and discounts. Buy 2 boxes/blisters and get the 3rd free. Instead of the crappy deals theyre offering now, buy 3 miniatures on the web store and pay full price for 3. A Greater Daemon was around $60-$80 (Too lazy to break out the old White Dwarf to fact check). To put it in perspective, back then I was working part time and getting around $12/hour. Now the Great Unclean One is $230!!!! Don't get me wrong the new one shits all over the old model but $230 is just too much. When I go past a GW store now, there is one staff running the whole store and it's empty. The store closes shop on Tuesday and Wednesday so he can have days off. Sad :(
Great video, my man! I like how you provided history, detailed information, and personal experience in this video. So many people do videos that are for or against recasts that are just blank opinions. By the way, For the Tzar sent me! ^_^ ~ Wolfbrother Methos
Good vidi; I went to the Russians when GW and FW decided charging 15 usd plus tax and shipping for 2 Tau drones and 100 usd(later dropped to 65usd) plus tax/shipping etc for 1 XV9 suit. Russians asked for 23usd shipped. The quality is amazing and now I have 3 for what the Brits wanted. I recently got back into the hobby, and for a 30% increase, they're using less material, and everything from small models to larger builds are hollow or have cavities in them. Das Vidanya FW, i wanted to like you.
I live in England and you really dont get a replacement model for 1 damaged part, you have to take a photo of the damaged part and they only replace that and it can take weeks, it took me 3 months by the time i got a usable Thunderhawk.
It used to be different. I was missing the base for a dreadnought once and they just sent me the whole kit again. This was around 2003/5. I still had a dreadnought with no base though, so I went into GW store and explained it and he gave me a base.
I find it hilarious how GW is so strongly opposed to recasting when one of their partner companies (green stuff world) literally sells a product specifically designed for the purpose of recasting parts (blue stuff, also called oyumaru)
Your consistent salt makes a lot more sense after listening to this video. 60% price increase for Aussies? Throne of the Emperor... I have no problem with recasts - In fact, the ones I've seen have been brilliant. This video is a good argument - especially for the Australian community - to buy recasts exclusively, in the hopes that GW & FW will come around. They probably won't, but no better way to get a company to shape up by kicking them right in the wallet.
I bought my first set of FW models, and Iron Father and Legion Praetors. The grease just isn't washing off the Praetors. FW recommended using Swarfega, I've just done that and it didn't work. Also there's a slip on the servo arm that I can't rectify because it goes halfway across the jaws. It's ridiculous when I paid £60 for the lot, including shipping.
Very happy you made this video Macca! I like to stay true to companies, but I simply can't afford legit FW models for stuff like Death Korps of Krieg unless I want to sell my kidney and ballsack for the cash to get a HQ squad and a artillery piece.
Tackling a difficult topic in a very civilized manner, very informative, I really appreciate your work. There are also people who wouldn't buy a new plastic starter kit for HH 2.0 if there weren't cheap recasts of Legion-specific units or breachers, for example. There is a way in which recasts help GW sales, although I doubt anyone can even speculate to what extent. Still, I think this is a point worth at least mentioning in the discussion, even though it does not provide a breakthrough in this moral dilemma.
Just so to point out, I lived and played Warhammer in China since 2010. The thing exists around 2010 already. The quality of the recasts are great back then as well. The only issue was there wasn't an advance trading system in place back in 2010. The reason you feel that there are more in 2012 and beyond is because the recasters found the correct channel to distribute them, and plus in the right timing of the price hike.
GW cant explain the Price rise if anything, it should have stayed the same as yes inflation did rise but they have all the equipment they need to produce models costing them nothing and making it cheaper to produce them
Well, eventually something 'pays off' eventually, the machines, the dies etc. The initial investment is spread out over X number of boxes planned to be sold, and once that many boxes are sold, they become pure profit.
I feel like recasting is always going to be a thing in some degree in this market because no natter how cheap GW sells their models the recasters can sell them for cheaper because they're skipping so many steps in the process like RnD and such, it's not necessarily a good thing for the hobby because I've seen too many people get polarized by it here in Canada but to the people out in Australia I say recast your pants off; there's no need for them to charge Aussie's so much for their products and again, it's probably something that will never go away, so what's the harm really?
Indeed they could, but the simplest solutions like standardizing their pricing across the globe aren't things they're willing to do, or at least that they're not ready to do quite yet so for the time being the chinacast markets future looks bright lol.
I had two blood slaughters. One FW, and my second (when FW was sold out for months) purchased Chinacast. They literally looked the same. After a few months of getting accustomed to playing them, I couldn't even tell which was which anymore myself. No one else could either, even when I asked.
As someone who is lucky enough to not have to pay the insane prices as you all down under I still went to recast for some stuff. As a chaos space marine player I would have to have spent 200ish to get a squad of 4 auto cannons, or I could spend like 40 bucks. Would be nice to see them try to sort this out, with the changes to being more consumer friendly, but only time will tell.
Hi man, a kiwi here. here in New Zealand it's $70 for a tactical squad. 70 fucking dollars for 10 miniatures. I was going to accept that that's how things go and give up on the hobby but now hearing about the recasting market I might give it another shot. I like GW's miniature and older lore but their prices make it hard to buy, paint and play with the miniatures I want ($70 for a box of tactical marines and it only gets more expensive). Thanks for the info, Dug111.
It’s still cheaper to buy a pair of mk4 marines boxes with FW bits from Forge World than it is to get the same 2 boxes without the FW bits from a GW store.
I am incredibly broke and love the hobby. Due to my poor intake of money, I've been purchasing recasts of death guard minis and DAMN they are amazing. I have some incredibly crisp terminators and deathshroud terminators. I'm so thankful for recasts, people like me would never be able to get into the hobby without it
I'm in the NA region, and my Store Manager was just on a call with our regional director, evidently they intend to crack down on recasts with forgeworld models in GW stores.
Reid Zalewski ...and how do you police it? You can't check their purchase history because many people had accounts where they purchased a LOT of heresy miniatures and the new FW we store voided all those accounts deleting all the data. On top of that, on-selling mini's and armies is huge. It's a booming business for many people, they buy an army, paint it, sell it for profit. Do you think that some GW store manager has the knowledge to spot a fake? What about the engineering know-how to tell what is what with resins? I think you'll find it's an unstoppable thing. Me personally, I can just direct anyone who doesn't like my stuff to this channel where they can see me open up 2 Calth sets with FW upgrades, a mastodon, thousand sons contemptors etc. all live on video. If I got told I couldn't play, I'd be PISSED at that store manager.
As a fellow Australian I can say I have, do and still will get recast if I can't get an original at other counties values, as a rule of thumb I do get at least one original kit and my Death korps is 90 original 10% recast but without contacts in Brittan anymore and the constant price creep by the time the regiment is done I expect those numbers to b flipped
I live in the states and I have considered recasts. I looked at a resin daemon prince still on sprues starting bids at $10, free shipping. But thus far I have stuck to either buying bits piecemeal off of ebay, or outrightly 3rd party sculpts.
I agree the customer service for games workshop has gone down hill over the years. Way back in the day of 2006 I had a miscast Necron Monolith crystal. I called GW and they sent me a Whole new Monolith as a replacement. Fast forward to December 2017 and the customer service wouldn't even answer an email about something that should have been fixed with the chapter approved. It sucks when they won't clarify a perfectly valid question, and it is still like this in the new necron codex (why does the Canoptek Spyder hit on a 4 instead of a 3 like it has in every other edition).
Well I have been interested in Warhammer since I was a teen and remember saving up to buy Chaos Marines back in 1998 (when Chaos still put the fear into loyalists). After years of seeing my expensive army drop in value and effectiveness over years of worsening codexes I didn't think I would be getting back into the hobby. However, about 2 years ago I ran into some mates that were themselves returning to the hobby and it got me hooked again. I was a bit leery of dropping the kind of money an army costs, so I looked into casting - casting myself by making molds and pouring resin. It was quite a bit of extra work to add on to a hobby as time demanding as this, but it was fun and I learned quite a bit. Ultimately I would not recommend it because of the time and costs involved. I also stumbled upon recasters and have bought quite a bit including some models that I have always loved the aesthetics of but could not justify the costs (dkok, solar auxilia, etc). I just ordered a Porphyrion Knight which retails on Forge World for approximately $460 through a recaster for $105. I do not play the game much but love the models and the hobby. I respect the work of sculptors but I do not care at all about GW brand loyalty. I will still buy GW products but only if it makes financial sense, ie it is not available through recast, it is not likely to stand up well to recasting methods or there is little or no savings via recasters. I always buy my GW products through my LGS and go there to play Shadespire, 40k (with my recasts-never had a problem) and other games (MTG and various board games). I am based in the USA.
I remember when you could get all you needed as a kid, because I did it. Now you get a 5 man assault squad for £25... fucking £25!!!! you could get a 5 man assault squad for like £8 when I was a kid, and you could get a full 20 man 2 tactical squads for round about £25. The pricing, coupled with the fact that I had nobody to play with pushed me out of the hobby. Now with these prices I couldn't get back into it without looking at recasts or "counts as" to get models. The only things at the moment that would get me back into the hobby is if Titanicus is popular enough to have people to play with, it's reasonably priced, or BFG makes a return.
The only point I find you incorrect on is the price of the tooling (what you call molds) I am a tool maker, I’ve done it for 12 years. Building molds is all I have ever done, a land raider would be a multi tool job to complete, probably 2-3 molds for that single model, ejector pins and intense detail cavities. Each mold would run 40-60k American. That’s a fact and a non negotiable fact of life, I hate their prices as well because it cost them around 20 cents US a sprue. You can get the tools built in China or Taiwan for around 40k US, but Injection molding is expensive and labor intensive to get started but the parts themselves once production starts only cost 10-40 cents a shot
My personal experience with recasts is very inconsistent. Firstly, I usually only use it for out of print miniatures, and they mainly come from either China or Russia. Stuff that I have gotten off of eBay from China, from what seems to be the largest seller of recast on eBay, is usually of medium quality or very poor. Brittle resin, extreme mold lines and in some cases even double mold lines. The Miniatures I've gotten from Russia however, are extremely high quality and usually flawless. Those have mainly been some of the out-of-print dreadnaughts, and their weapons. The Chinese recast of a Death Korps of Krieg Grenadier team was an utter failure, and I had to just throw it in the trash
Great video mate, and I agree on the one point on pricing. I'm lucky enough that with my wage I can afford to spend between 70-100 GBP on model stuff a month. I've got confidence in GW plastic, but after the utter pain my FW Armageddon Medusa was to build, I will spend my money on recast until FW quality improves.
I've bought discontinued stuff many times, no shame there but if I lived in Australia I'd buy everything from recasters because you guys get properly price fucked and have been for some time. Nice video, man.
There’s got to be some irony that I’ve just bought the arch magos and abeyant in your pic from a recaster it arrived yesterday. My justification is that it’s just a stand in until Scoria is released later this year. Like you I’m definitely on the fence I’d probably say for every £250 I spend at FW I probably spend about £30-50 with recasters.
I will admit that I had not heard about Recasting (beyond making your own molds out of play-dough or clay or other sources.) until I stumbled upon your channel, so I find myself at the crossroads...the price gouging isn't as bad for me, being in the middle of Sunny Colorado in the USA...with the nearest Games Workshop store a few hours Drive Time north in the State Capital...And being new to Forge World (Unbuilt Sicaran and Grave Warden Squad)... Do find most Recasters I've seen don't tend to include instructions though, so that's helped hold me back.
Tony Zou I very rarely buy recast. When I do, it's often just experimental, or parts/mini's you can no longer acquire. I've had a mixed bag, over the years,,but the latest stuff I'm dealing with would be unrecognisable next to Forge World's own produced kits.
I wonder if you might not see classic plastic box sets being recast. All the old rogue trader stuff, Skeleton Army and those classics from back in the day.
Is anyone compiling an up to date list of out of production miniatures? Obviously the Last Chance to Buy stuff and older stuff that was replaced or a bit out of date, but more importantly, imo, the almost random magical vanishing minis which, to my knowledge, includes the Iron Hands Contemptor, that amazing Magos Dominus with Rad-cleanser and more recently the Sons of Horus Reavers.
When I started this game 2 years ago it was $55 for a standard box of tactical marines and now they're $65, $10 Jump isn't much in 2 years but you look at the bigger boxes. A start collecting averaged at about $140 When I started, they're now $165+ in cost for the majority of them. It's crazy.
Man I think I'm gonna have my HH army (Death Guard) mainly from China. Here in Italy the costs are really high, both from GW than FW, but the recast market is instead really convenient and has good quality. Although all this, and know I must sound like a douche saying this, I'll continue buying from a GW store (the employee is a friend of mine). But, apart from that, LOVE FW RECAST :D!!!P.S. Keep on like this, you have one of the best Warhammer youtubers on the internet ;)
Really great video :). I've have myself bought a few recast model for myself and the quality was onpair or surpassed forgeworld. The reason why i bought was because the models where not in producing anymore and therefor impossible to get through normal means
I pretty much agree, ordered my first recast last week after FW finally pushed me to the edge with their asinine shipping costs and overpriced models. GW is showing change for the better and I buy their kits from stores or online but Forgeworld? Nope. Until they change I’m looking to recasts.
I’ve found a better way to paint my iron warriors. I got some paint for Walmart that actually look better the Gw. It looks like real metal and I do the same with the gold and black. The only thing I’ve actually got was yellow. My primer is from Privater.
Basically that's why GW stop fine cast and metal, recasting plastic is difficult and not really cheaper. They are mostly unbeatable on plastic and most plastic kit are cheaper (except in Australia) than they was 10-20 years ago.
I have seen something plastic from every release since the Warzone Fenris produced in resin. Thousand Sons got a lot of minis, so did all of the Triumvirates.
great video, i've been tempted to check out recasters for some mini's for a heresy army im considering, being on a low budget the UK prices for stuff forgeworld and GW makes are a little bit higher than i'd consider worth it given the competitions pricing and quality overall(why would i pay £80-90 for one mini when i can get an entire army for around that from companies like mantic).
Just because inflation rises doesn't mean wages do... Take nurses in the UK for example, who have not had a wage increase on 5 years, but are now getting one that is still half the rate of inflation
My experience in my little hobby circle has been that no one cares at all about whether a model is a recast or not. I don't know about recasts being right or wrong, but GW definitely seems to be doing everything in its power to make sure no one really cares one way or another in our area (AUS). On the point you make about quality of the alternatives, I know I've been looking alternatives to GW sculpts even just for army variety and conversion purposes let alone the pricing issues. I've seen people argue that its the relatively small customer base of AU/NZ that's the root cause of the pricing model they use, with them needing to squeeze every cent just to be able to justify even doing business here. I don't know, maybe AU/NZ simply is to small for them to justify putting the effort in to try and grow the hobby here. At the end of the day I DO think GW simply just doesn't take our region seriously.
It’s pretty simple isn’t it? When you charge an arm and a leg as well as your left nut for miniatures you can manufacture for under $1 a sprue.. well are they surprised that people would seek an affordable option. Like we are talking just under $100 for a box of intercessors. The fastest way to kill your game/market is to add a high barrier to entry and constant price gouging.
What websites would you suggest using? Because I don't want to rush straight into buying a model from someone who doesn't have the right kind of reputation. Also what website did you use? Ps great video's
You forgot the shipping cost. Recast I know of is free shipping world wide at 30 Euro, FW 250 fucking pounds. And then if you buy a bit more 15+ for shipping. FW is more expensive, worse quality, worse customer support, etc.
Never actually bought recasts becaue all but one of the stores that I have bought my 40k stuff from have been independent hobby retailers. I like to walk into a store and talk about my latest projects and get tips for painting and converting. I also just don't shop online. However, now that I am looking to get into 30k (when people in my area actually start playing.....) I might look at Chinacast. As an Australian I am also generally dissapointed with the latest from GW. New stuff is WAY too expensive to the point where upon release, Age of Sigmar was called Age of Extortion and the new Primaris and Death Guard cost more than they are worth. I was fine with the prices at 5th edition (to an extent) when I started but now I question buying new releases and wait for my main store to give me League and pre-order discounts for boxed sets before even considering purchasing.
I'm very interested in this now. The only game store that still sells GW stuff has an even higher markup, and it's not reasonable to pay a fortune for a single box of marines :/
I havent purchased any fg or recast minis yet, but i have and still am close to wanting to get some. I have however, gotten recast models for gunpla and whatnot. It sucks that for the most part, there doesn’t really seem to be a good reason to get official gw resin. Like I really like some of the designs from forge world and it feels wrong to spend money on a design thay the company who makes it won't see support for. Its also that for how premium feeling a lot of GW's recent products are that forge world still feels like some made-to-order parts shop instead of getting this grand packaging. On that note, if GW increased quality, lowered prices, but also made the experience and the presentation of opening forge world models better, i would totally buy them
Yep my experience in the uk with forgeworld has been alright, a few months bk i got a unit of Solar Auxilia Lasrifles and out of the unit i was missing about 7 dudes and a fast email to forgeworld and in a few weeks i got a all new pack. But i do feel like buying solar Auxilia/ anything foreworld and even getting to the point of normal gw for me is massive cost investment. I think for you guys in Australia it would be insane.
Here in Canada recasts are still fairly new but are growing in popularity quickly. I have yet to dip in but after getting an order from FW that cost over 500 pounds and 1/4 were poor casts im getting more tempted to go the recast route. My Only issue with recasts here are all the Aholes who are trying to sell recasts on the 2nd hand market claiming they are FW.
I've got 4 forge world primarchs, and one recast, which is of a comparable quality. With the price seeming to increase with every new primarch.. Alpharius, magnus and dorn pushing 80 GBP. I will be buying recast from China for my next ones. I can get 3 primarchs for the price of one, and I believe the quality is as good if not better. I assume the recasters buy releases straight away to ensure a good quality cast.
O yeah...not to mention.... I'm still waiting for Forge World to send me the replacement part for the grav tank they sent me broken in the box. It's been 3 months already lol 🤣 and that's how I found my way to the mini black market...and I can't go back now, not when the black market has better customer support and prices. GW and FW shoot themselves in the foot. So I can never feel bad for them. I'm shopping for a 3d printer now, all because of GW and FW.
One of the main reason GW prices are as high as they are is because almost everything is made in Britain so they pay a good minimum wage to their employees. They're also really good to their employees which a lot of businesses can't say. Furthermore the big price hike in 2009 was probably due to the recession in the UK. Now that Britain's leaving the EU I wouldn't be surprised if we see another one.
Brexit already has an effect, my cheapest non-recast option is to buy from the UK with 20-25% discount and ship it to Germany. The fx rate GBP EUR has shifted lot.
Here in the US, the pricing is not as bad as Austrailia, but it's still definitely not good at all. Most of what is left of the local scene has switched to recasts for the sheer fact we're almost guaranteed high-quality molds with better resin, better customer service, and better detail overall with a minimum of "fixing what should not be broken with liquid green stuff." GW all but killed the comic shop/game store industry here in the majority of my state, so it's play among friends & clubs with recasts or not at all as the closest GW store is over 120 miles away. I won't argue the "morality" of recasts, but I will point out that GW's business decisions killed a LOT of small businesses and that is some of the lowest petty dirty pool I have seen from a company, and this all happened BEFORE the dumpster fire which is Age of Sigmar. From my POV unless GW replaces 8th Ed. 40k with a more sensible distinct ruleset, opens up the market for the US and Canada for ma & pa shops, as well as lowers their prices to attainable competitive levels for the average individual they are on borrowed time for this entire continent.
They lost me when they stopped anyone shipping from UK to Australia. I was getting models from the UK for 50% below Australian retail. Since that embargo I never bought another army. Long live mantic!
Forgeworld / GW could quite easily remedy the recaster "issue" if they wanted to. Bring their prices more in line with what is reasonable and recasters won't get as much business. Nobody (I hope) buys recasts of plastic Cadians, because the £18 price is not too bad in the first place. Obviously different if you're on Oz but as you say, prices in line with the rest of the world would fix that. Compare that to £44 for the same 10 regular humans from Forgeworld Solar Auxilia and its not difficult to see why folk flock to recasters for Forgeworld items. Make those Solar Auxilia squads £30 and most folk would just buy from Forgeworld rather than from China. Forgeworld obviously don't see it as much of an issue otherwise they would do something about it.
The GST was introduced to Australia in 2000, and mail order bypassed the luxury taxes that were placed on imported non-essential collectables. You were a child at this time and explaining tax to you would have been pointless.
Games Workshop is stuck as long as they are a publicly traded. They are at the mercy of the investors. Until they go private again they are stuck and must cut coroners to keep their profit levels up.
Not true, this why McDonald do not charge $40 for fries. The highest prices do not get you the most money, expanding your market base or getting your customers to start collecting more armies.
Yo! I have recasts to compare to real forge world models....I have to mark the base so I can tell the difference....and they are not painted yet. 😂 Soooo happy to get the same exact FW model for $40 instead of $165.99
the only time i would ever expect games workshop to lower the prices, is when they are going under as a company and desperately trying to sell off assets.
I live in China and even if I wanted to support FW I couldn’t. They refuse to even sell the books here which is an absolute joke. But my 2 Custode Dreadnaughts cost £8 each so fuck it.
GW had a reasonable defense against recasts years ago, there models were better quality and more reliable product...but they messed all that up thx to poorer quality and price increases that outstrip any inflation. The recasts became better quality while remaining the cheaper option. The price of the hobby has never been cheap but prices went up while expendable income fell over the last few years. This leaves a black hole of a generation that never had the income to start the game thus you have less people to sell to. This economic backlash increased GW price distance between their and the recast market even further pushing even loyal customers to buy the viable option. Then ofc there is the apocalypse release that needed even more units to play. Throw in insane discrepancy in prices between counties and what your left with is a company in a complete mess. They have spend far too much protecting their assets ie renaming all their paint for trademark reasons as well and the names of some factions instead of making their product worthy of its cost over the cheaper recasts.
EBAY is a great place to find them. Recasters have to be REALLY, REALLY hush hush about their stores, since there's a lot of people who BREATHE to fuck over recasters, either to get in good favour with Gdubs, or just for shits and giggles. If you go on Ebay or something similair *Or look for models from Russians* You can usually spot a recast by the cost being surprisingly low, like a squad of MK3 space marines from Horus Heresy costing 30 bucks. If you find such a seller, you should be really careful about sharing their name out there.
Thank you for the informative video. Also I claim this first in the name of the God-Emperor of Mankind. Thank you the Outer circle for the correction I shall lash myself now in penence.
I’ve bought one or two recast second hand from a guy at the store and it seams they make the models on par with forge world but with better quality control
More great work. I agree with recast. Mainly because of the +40% shipping costs (when I order Forgeworld products to providence Rhode Island/usa) not one single US distributor? Fuck ' em. Get your models where you can/ I can't pass judgement on a gamer who can't afford models just because of the bogus shipping expenses
PRICE PRICE PRICE I have been playing for over 25 years ,landraider when it came out 39 now 85 US for the same mold FW chaos warhound when it came out around 300 with every thing my wife bought me one 2 years ago 700 US for everything I can now buy a recast warhound for 200 recasters will win every time
Purchased an Ixion Hale last month at Adepticon, price: $75. Purchased an Ixion Hale from China, price $15. Did a comparison, the Chinese one had sharper lines, and better quality resin. Link to photos comparing the two here: imgur.com/a/r4wUP I don't mind supporting Forgeworld, but if their quality is crap, I also don't mind buying something that has better quality control, better customer service, and better price
I'm going to pin this post, at least for a while, not because I'm condoning it, but because it's a great comparison for people to see so that they can judge for themselves. ~M
Since FW beginning in the 90's they have problem with long run quality if the demand on the model drop. Short story:
Your Ixion was probably casted on used mould. fter the released hype.
Long story:
Back then (90's) I've bought two Leman Russ Vanquisher turret kit 1.5 year apart. The first one near the released date was very fine (except the stupid design flaw: the attaching part to the hull is far too small by 0.5cm, and the plastic hatch didn't fit). The second one was terrible... the worst was a pronounced mould line on the barrel and air bubble instead of rivet on 30% of them. The cast look amateurish, and it was. (btw the customer service was inexistant i.e it's part of the hobby, it improved after, then decline). Only the "master collector pieces" like bust and statue were perfect (not the same resin i.e. longer casting time). Even now the problem is still there, I had the same issue with Death Shroud, Krieg infantry and eldar Shadow specters. With the quality control card they said it was check ... and you can understand the "don't fool us with your recast swap or freebee extortion". Btw they probably have these problem with some customer.
So now I look on some second hand site to find the parts I need at low cost.
x72821 What store did you buy the Chinese recast on? I'm hearing so much about recast figures but I can't find anywhere.
Same here, have tried looking but can't find
Dude, thanks so much! I didn't know PillPit nor DHgate, great to have another recaster as an option! BTW did you buy anything From Peterwork there? Do you know if he's legit?
All that GW/FW has to do to end the recast market is provide a decent product for a decent price with decent fairly-priced shipping, also make all minis available.
They should look at iTunes and MP3 piracy.
They should look at how much music piracy has declined in recent times.
The Outer Circle exactly!
You missed the fact that Forgeworld out sourced to China during apocalypse era. No joke there were UK residents getting Forgeworld with made in China labels. This was a bad choice
A for recasting point for myself. I would not have gotten into 30k were it not for the casting scene (and their quality casts). The price was far too prohibitive to collect a full 30k army and attend events and I know for a fact that there are a good chunk of the 30k community in the same boat. Pricing of 40k is something that is subjective based on your income but I do feel like GW has priced itself out of the market in the last few years.
The topic of recasters isn’t going to disappear for sure ;) Great discussion and points mate, I look forward to your piece on the tax regime and pricing between the UK and Australia.
Thank you for the shout out as well, it’s much appreciated.
Well it was logically a great video to link to, as the quality control and mold situation is a key component in the rise of recasting IMO. Rather than go into the topic in full, it made far more sense to link to you as you'd already tackled the subject.
I mean after their whole debacle "Warhammer is for everyone, BUT" & their recent price hike / cursed city bs, only way I would ever get into the tabletop is by getting recasts.
Excellent and balanced video.
For me I use recast because of the Australia tax, the Forgeworld quality issues and the fact that I feel like I am supplementing a failing model. GW stores are absolutely rubbish in Australia and I don't think they should exist, I feel like every time I buy something from GW I am paying 20-30% more just because they want to keep a poor retail presence. I can't play in their stores (they never have 6x4 tables and are rude to players) and every other game store I have been to has been far more welcoming of gamers and provide far better players. Why pay to subsidize all of this?
I hope you all enjoyed the episode, please leave your dislikes and comments in the chat!
Check out Leaky Cheese's video "A Farewell to Triaros" th-cam.com/video/_9qUZGwCHi8/w-d-xo.html
didn't know about recasting until i saw you do a video on it. although i suppose since i started this year i would have to have found out about it eventually
I have gone to make a video detailing do and do-not's several times. I don't overly want to use people's work in it because rather than accept that I'm right in my criticisims, people instead attack me as they perceive e as being a prick for pointing out major faults. As an example the Armies on Parade videos where I show numerous problems and 'winners' and ask on what planet they deserved to win.
The only way I will pull off the video is if I use my own parts and build from scratch.
I bought an Imperial Knight a few months back, and at the time due to the conversion rate, it was actually cheaper for me to buy a knight from FW, than it was to drive into town and get one from the local GW.
And if I went to a recaster, it would have been less than half of that price. I don't blame people going for recasters at all.
That is pretty fucked up.
You're even more fucked if you want to get into a FW army, like Krieg. A recasters cost for a tank, artillery, cavalry, some squads and HQ, about 320 Dollars, VERSUS FW's 680 Dollars. With prices like that, no wonder Recast is a thing.
Greater Brass Scorpion, ~£50, cheaper plastic, but sits well with my legit £160 FW model. As a UK resident, I have access to 3rd party at - 10-30% of GW.
"Drop your prices and I will come back"
The Austrailian Pricing ist rediculos. Facts i am so lucky living in Europe. BaC 125 Euro in Germany in Austrailia 250$ Rediculos.
Some very interesting points and great (or not) to hear how it affects you guys over there. Thanks for sharing!
Good topic Macca. I had many friends into Warhammer when we were younger, though not too many now. The 3 friends that are still into the hobby were around from the late 90s. Any new people I meet that have shown any interest in this, quickly dissipates (and rightfully so) as soon as they see how much this hobby cost.
I think that GW expanded way too fast. I remember there were Games Workshop stores throughout N.S.W., even in Westfields shopping centres. The stores had multiple staff and was full of customers. They ran Games day events, had store openings with organised transportation and discounts. Buy 2 boxes/blisters and get the 3rd free. Instead of the crappy deals theyre offering now, buy 3 miniatures on the web store and pay full price for 3. A Greater Daemon was around $60-$80 (Too lazy to break out the old White Dwarf to fact check). To put it in perspective, back then I was working part time and getting around $12/hour. Now the Great Unclean One is $230!!!! Don't get me wrong the new one shits all over the old model but $230 is just too much.
When I go past a GW store now, there is one staff running the whole store and it's empty. The store closes shop on Tuesday and Wednesday so he can have days off. Sad :(
Great video, my man! I like how you provided history, detailed information, and personal experience in this video. So many people do videos that are for or against recasts that are just blank opinions.
By the way, For the Tzar sent me! ^_^
~ Wolfbrother Methos
Good vidi; I went to the Russians when GW and FW decided charging 15 usd plus tax and shipping for 2 Tau drones and 100 usd(later dropped to 65usd) plus tax/shipping etc for 1 XV9 suit. Russians asked for 23usd shipped. The quality is amazing and now I have 3 for what the Brits wanted.
I recently got back into the hobby, and for a 30% increase, they're using less material, and everything from small models to larger builds are hollow or have cavities in them.
Das Vidanya FW, i wanted to like you.
I live in England and you really dont get a replacement model for 1 damaged part, you have to take a photo of the damaged part and they only replace that and it can take weeks, it took me 3 months by the time i got a usable Thunderhawk.
I can confirm that this is the Way it is in the UK, FW treat broken or missing parts like "YOU" are the one who is trying to rip them off
Amanda Franks they even asked me to send a picture of a missing part once, that propper confused me :)
It used to be different. I was missing the base for a dreadnought once and they just sent me the whole kit again. This was around 2003/5. I still had a dreadnought with no base though, so I went into GW store and explained it and he gave me a base.
I was ok with paying GW price for models untill I found out how much the model actually cost in USD
We’re you also paying in Australian dollars?
I can get a squad of tartaros terminators from GW for 50. Or I can go recast and pay 20. I haven't yet but the price difference is really tempting.
Derrick Luderus or go to Ebay and buy plastic ones for around 25-30$ from the burning of Prospero set.
My recaster only charges 10$ for every 5 terminators
which one is that?
Amanda, we need to be really hush hush about the recasters we purchase from, or Gbots will have it shut down.
Dick Thunder any chance you could PM me your recaster?
I find it hilarious how GW is so strongly opposed to recasting when one of their partner companies (green stuff world) literally sells a product specifically designed for the purpose of recasting parts (blue stuff, also called oyumaru)
Your consistent salt makes a lot more sense after listening to this video. 60% price increase for Aussies? Throne of the Emperor...
I have no problem with recasts - In fact, the ones I've seen have been brilliant. This video is a good argument - especially for the Australian community - to buy recasts exclusively, in the hopes that GW & FW will come around. They probably won't, but no better way to get a company to shape up by kicking them right in the wallet.
I bought my first set of FW models, and Iron Father and Legion Praetors. The grease just isn't washing off the Praetors. FW recommended using Swarfega, I've just done that and it didn't work. Also there's a slip on the servo arm that I can't rectify because it goes halfway across the jaws. It's ridiculous when I paid £60 for the lot, including shipping.
Very happy you made this video Macca! I like to stay true to companies, but I simply can't afford legit FW models for stuff like Death Korps of Krieg unless I want to sell my kidney and ballsack for the cash to get a HQ squad and a artillery piece.
Tackling a difficult topic in a very civilized manner, very informative, I really appreciate your work.
There are also people who wouldn't buy a new plastic starter kit for HH 2.0 if there weren't cheap recasts of Legion-specific units or breachers, for example. There is a way in which recasts help GW sales, although I doubt anyone can even speculate to what extent. Still, I think this is a point worth at least mentioning in the discussion, even though it does not provide a breakthrough in this moral dilemma.
Just so to point out, I lived and played Warhammer in China since 2010. The thing exists around 2010 already. The quality of the recasts are great back then as well. The only issue was there wasn't an advance trading system in place back in 2010. The reason you feel that there are more in 2012 and beyond is because the recasters found the correct channel to distribute them, and plus in the right timing of the price hike.
GW cant explain the Price rise if anything, it should have stayed the same as yes inflation did rise but they have all the equipment they need to produce models costing them nothing and making it cheaper to produce them
Well, eventually something 'pays off' eventually, the machines, the dies etc. The initial investment is spread out over X number of boxes planned to be sold, and once that many boxes are sold, they become pure profit.
The audio quality is fine, don't sweat it
I feel like recasting is always going to be a thing in some degree in this market because no natter how cheap GW sells their models the recasters can sell them for cheaper because they're skipping so many steps in the process like RnD and such, it's not necessarily a good thing for the hobby because I've seen too many people get polarized by it here in Canada but to the people out in Australia I say recast your pants off; there's no need for them to charge Aussie's so much for their products and again, it's probably something that will never go away, so what's the harm really?
I agree that they will never kill off recasts, but they definitely can eat away the market share.
Indeed they could, but the simplest solutions like standardizing their pricing across the globe aren't things they're willing to do, or at least that they're not ready to do quite yet so for the time being the chinacast markets future looks bright lol.
I had two blood slaughters. One FW, and my second (when FW was sold out for months) purchased Chinacast. They literally looked the same. After a few months of getting accustomed to playing them, I couldn't even tell which was which anymore myself. No one else could either, even when I asked.
Frankly the UK/US companys' attitude towards Australian customers is 90% of the reason Australia has a massive rate of piracy in most products.
Ive never bought recast, but that is from laziness, not morals. Usually i start thinking about it when i contemplate doing a Solar Auxilia force.
Don't even CONSIDER getting the legit ones. You can get 2 Russian/Chinaman Auxie squads for the same price FW charge.
As someone who is lucky enough to not have to pay the insane prices as you all down under I still went to recast for some stuff. As a chaos space marine player I would have to have spent 200ish to get a squad of 4 auto cannons, or I could spend like 40 bucks.
Would be nice to see them try to sort this out, with the changes to being more consumer friendly, but only time will tell.
Hi man, a kiwi here. here in New Zealand it's $70 for a tactical squad. 70 fucking dollars for 10 miniatures. I was going to accept that that's how things go and give up on the hobby but now hearing about the recasting market I might give it another shot. I like GW's miniature and older lore but their prices make it hard to buy, paint and play with the miniatures I want ($70 for a box of tactical marines and it only gets more expensive). Thanks for the info, Dug111.
It’s still cheaper to buy a pair of mk4 marines boxes with FW bits from Forge World than it is to get the same 2 boxes without the FW bits from a GW store.
The resin marines look better than the plastic ones anyway.
I am incredibly broke and love the hobby. Due to my poor intake of money, I've been purchasing recasts of death guard minis and DAMN they are amazing. I have some incredibly crisp terminators and deathshroud terminators. I'm so thankful for recasts, people like me would never be able to get into the hobby without it
Hi JD, I'm in the same situation. Any way to message me with where you procured your miniatures from without getting the seller into trouble?
This guy is know GW snitch!
@@radiomuffin War1-Tablegames, zackgame1 and Cheap-n-fast minis are all ones I have used before
I'm in the NA region, and my Store Manager was just on a call with our regional director, evidently they intend to crack down on recasts with forgeworld models in GW stores.
Reid Zalewski ...and how do you police it? You can't check their purchase history because many people had accounts where they purchased a LOT of heresy miniatures and the new FW we store voided all those accounts deleting all the data. On top of that, on-selling mini's and armies is huge. It's a booming business for many people, they buy an army, paint it, sell it for profit. Do you think that some GW store manager has the knowledge to spot a fake? What about the engineering know-how to tell what is what with resins? I think you'll find it's an unstoppable thing. Me personally, I can just direct anyone who doesn't like my stuff to this channel where they can see me open up 2 Calth sets with FW upgrades, a mastodon, thousand sons contemptors etc. all live on video. If I got told I couldn't play, I'd be PISSED at that store manager.
The Outer Circle This is the exact issue I had with it. It fucks seconhand people because the idea was to check receipts.
As a fellow Australian I can say I have, do and still will get recast if I can't get an original at other counties values, as a rule of thumb I do get at least one original kit and my Death korps is 90 original 10% recast but without contacts in Brittan anymore and the constant price creep by the time the regiment is done I expect those numbers to b flipped
I live in the states and I have considered recasts. I looked at a resin daemon prince still on sprues starting bids at $10, free shipping. But thus far I have stuck to either buying bits piecemeal off of ebay, or outrightly 3rd party sculpts.
I agree the customer service for games workshop has gone down hill over the years. Way back in the day of 2006 I had a miscast Necron Monolith crystal. I called GW and they sent me a Whole new Monolith as a replacement. Fast forward to December 2017 and the customer service wouldn't even answer an email about something that should have been fixed with the chapter approved. It sucks when they won't clarify a perfectly valid question, and it is still like this in the new necron codex (why does the Canoptek Spyder hit on a 4 instead of a 3 like it has in every other edition).
Well I have been interested in Warhammer since I was a teen and remember saving up to buy Chaos Marines back in 1998 (when Chaos still put the fear into loyalists). After years of seeing my expensive army drop in value and effectiveness over years of worsening codexes I didn't think I would be getting back into the hobby.
However, about 2 years ago I ran into some mates that were themselves returning to the hobby and it got me hooked again. I was a bit leery of dropping the kind of money an army costs, so I looked into casting - casting myself by making molds and pouring resin. It was quite a bit of extra work to add on to a hobby as time demanding as this, but it was fun and I learned quite a bit. Ultimately I would not recommend it because of the time and costs involved.
I also stumbled upon recasters and have bought quite a bit including some models that I have always loved the aesthetics of but could not justify the costs (dkok, solar auxilia, etc). I just ordered a Porphyrion Knight which retails on Forge World for approximately $460 through a recaster for $105.
I do not play the game much but love the models and the hobby. I respect the work of sculptors but I do not care at all about GW brand loyalty. I will still buy GW products but only if it makes financial sense, ie it is not available through recast, it is not likely to stand up well to recasting methods or there is little or no savings via recasters. I always buy my GW products through my LGS and go there to play Shadespire, 40k (with my recasts-never had a problem) and other games (MTG and various board games).
I am based in the USA.
I remember when you could get all you needed as a kid, because I did it. Now you get a 5 man assault squad for £25... fucking £25!!!! you could get a 5 man assault squad for like £8 when I was a kid, and you could get a full 20 man 2 tactical squads for round about £25.
The pricing, coupled with the fact that I had nobody to play with pushed me out of the hobby. Now with these prices I couldn't get back into it without looking at recasts or "counts as" to get models. The only things at the moment that would get me back into the hobby is if Titanicus is popular enough to have people to play with, it's reasonably priced, or BFG makes a return.
The only point I find you incorrect on is the price of the tooling (what you call molds) I am a tool maker, I’ve done it for 12 years. Building molds is all I have ever done, a land raider would be a multi tool job to complete, probably 2-3 molds for that single model, ejector pins and intense detail cavities. Each mold would run 40-60k American. That’s a fact and a non negotiable fact of life, I hate their prices as well because it cost them around 20 cents US a sprue. You can get the tools built in China or Taiwan for around 40k US, but Injection molding is expensive and labor intensive to get started but the parts themselves once production starts only cost 10-40 cents a shot
i bought a gargantuan squiggoth as a centerpiece for my ork army it was oily i couldn't manage to fix it and i got no response frome forgeworld
My personal experience with recasts is very inconsistent. Firstly, I usually only use it for out of print miniatures, and they mainly come from either China or Russia. Stuff that I have gotten off of eBay from China, from what seems to be the largest seller of recast on eBay, is usually of medium quality or very poor. Brittle resin, extreme mold lines and in some cases even double mold lines. The Miniatures I've gotten from Russia however, are extremely high quality and usually flawless. Those have mainly been some of the out-of-print dreadnaughts, and their weapons. The Chinese recast of a Death Korps of Krieg Grenadier team was an utter failure, and I had to just throw it in the trash
It might have been a friend of mine lul
was the resin blue?
What about making your own recasts first personal use only? Do you have any particular thoughts on that?
Great video mate, and I agree on the one point on pricing.
I'm lucky enough that with my wage I can afford to spend between 70-100 GBP on model stuff a month. I've got confidence in GW plastic, but after the utter pain my FW Armageddon Medusa was to build, I will spend my money on recast until FW quality improves.
I've bought discontinued stuff many times, no shame there but if I lived in Australia I'd buy everything from recasters because you guys get properly price fucked and have been for some time. Nice video, man.
Interesting conversation.
There’s got to be some irony that I’ve just bought the arch magos and abeyant in your pic from a recaster it arrived yesterday. My justification is that it’s just a stand in until Scoria is released later this year.
Like you I’m definitely on the fence I’d probably say for every £250 I spend at FW I probably spend about £30-50 with recasters.
I will admit that I had not heard about Recasting (beyond making your own molds out of play-dough or clay or other sources.) until I stumbled upon your channel, so I find myself at the crossroads...the price gouging isn't as bad for me, being in the middle of Sunny Colorado in the USA...with the nearest Games Workshop store a few hours Drive Time north in the State Capital...And being new to Forge World (Unbuilt Sicaran and Grave Warden Squad)...
Do find most Recasters I've seen don't tend to include instructions though, so that's helped hold me back.
I'd like to ask about you're experiences with recast if you don't mind. We both know it's very touchy but I thought it would be interesting.
Tony Zou I very rarely buy recast. When I do, it's often just experimental, or parts/mini's you can no longer acquire. I've had a mixed bag, over the years,,but the latest stuff I'm dealing with would be unrecognisable next to Forge World's own produced kits.
The Outer Circle Understood thanks for the heads up.
I wonder if you might not see classic plastic box sets being recast. All the old rogue trader stuff, Skeleton Army and those classics from back in the day.
Is anyone compiling an up to date list of out of production miniatures? Obviously the Last Chance to Buy stuff and older stuff that was replaced or a bit out of date, but more importantly, imo, the almost random magical vanishing minis which, to my knowledge, includes the Iron Hands Contemptor, that amazing Magos Dominus with Rad-cleanser and more recently the Sons of Horus Reavers.
When I started this game 2 years ago it was $55 for a standard box of tactical marines and now they're $65, $10 Jump isn't much in 2 years but you look at the bigger boxes. A start collecting averaged at about $140 When I started, they're now $165+ in cost for the majority of them. It's crazy.
I don't mind paying retail for Warhammer/FW when the price is fair. Price now is not fair hence why I go to my Chinese connect.
At least the chinaman gives you what you pay for.
Great vid, I pretty much agree, does anyone know of any current good casters?
Man I think I'm gonna have my HH army (Death Guard) mainly from China. Here in Italy the costs are really high, both from GW than FW, but the recast market is instead really convenient and has good quality. Although all this, and know I must sound like a douche saying this, I'll continue buying from a GW store (the employee is a friend of mine). But, apart from that, LOVE FW RECAST :D!!!P.S. Keep on like this, you have one of the best Warhammer youtubers on the internet ;)
Really great video :). I've have myself bought a few recast model for myself and the quality was onpair or surpassed forgeworld. The reason why i bought was because the models where not in producing anymore and therefor impossible to get through normal means
I pretty much agree, ordered my first recast last week after FW finally pushed me to the edge with their asinine shipping costs and overpriced models. GW is showing change for the better and I buy their kits from stores or online but Forgeworld?
Nope. Until they change I’m looking to recasts.
Not Alpharius where did you buy it?
I’ve found a better way to paint my iron warriors. I got some paint for Walmart that actually look better the Gw. It looks like real metal and I do the same with the gold and black. The only thing I’ve actually got was yellow. My primer is from Privater.
i do not buy recasts personally, but you have brought up some valid points
Basically that's why GW stop fine cast and metal, recasting plastic is difficult and not really cheaper. They are mostly unbeatable on plastic and most plastic kit are cheaper (except in Australia) than they was 10-20 years ago.
I have seen something plastic from every release since the Warzone Fenris produced in resin. Thousand Sons got a lot of minis, so did all of the Triumvirates.
That’s funny I received my Leviathan Dreadnought this morning. Bought at a fraction of the price. I don’t know what’s going on.
great video, i've been tempted to check out recasters for some mini's for a heresy army im considering, being on a low budget the UK prices for stuff forgeworld and GW makes are a little bit higher than i'd consider worth it given the competitions pricing and quality overall(why would i pay £80-90 for one mini when i can get an entire army for around that from companies like mantic).
The battletech system is awesome less minies less money to spend
Prior to gw dumping a bunch of upgrades I never bought recast
Just because inflation rises doesn't mean wages do... Take nurses in the UK for example, who have not had a wage increase on 5 years, but are now getting one that is still half the rate of inflation
My experience in my little hobby circle has been that no one cares at all about whether a model is a recast or not. I don't know about recasts being right or wrong, but GW definitely seems to be doing everything in its power to make sure no one really cares one way or another in our area (AUS). On the point you make about quality of the alternatives, I know I've been looking alternatives to GW sculpts even just for army variety and conversion purposes let alone the pricing issues.
I've seen people argue that its the relatively small customer base of AU/NZ that's the root cause of the pricing model they use, with them needing to squeeze every cent just to be able to justify even doing business here. I don't know, maybe AU/NZ simply is to small for them to justify putting the effort in to try and grow the hobby here. At the end of the day I DO think GW simply just doesn't take our region seriously.
It’s pretty simple isn’t it? When you charge an arm and a leg as well as your left nut for miniatures you can manufacture for under $1 a sprue.. well are they surprised that people would seek an affordable option.
Like we are talking just under $100 for a box of intercessors.
The fastest way to kill your game/market is to add a high barrier to entry and constant price gouging.
What websites would you suggest using? Because I don't want to rush straight into buying a model from someone who doesn't have the right kind of reputation.
Also what website did you use?
Ps great video's
I got mine from sellers off of AliExpress.com
You forgot the shipping cost. Recast I know of is free shipping world wide at 30 Euro, FW 250 fucking pounds. And then if you buy a bit more 15+ for shipping. FW is more expensive, worse quality, worse customer support, etc.
Never actually bought recasts becaue all but one of the stores that I have bought my 40k stuff from have been independent hobby retailers. I like to walk into a store and talk about my latest projects and get tips for painting and converting. I also just don't shop online. However, now that I am looking to get into 30k (when people in my area actually start playing.....) I might look at Chinacast.
As an Australian I am also generally dissapointed with the latest from GW. New stuff is WAY too expensive to the point where upon release, Age of Sigmar was called Age of Extortion and the new Primaris and Death Guard cost more than they are worth. I was fine with the prices at 5th edition (to an extent) when I started but now I question buying new releases and wait for my main store to give me League and pre-order discounts for boxed sets before even considering purchasing.
I'm very interested in this now. The only game store that still sells GW stuff has an even higher markup, and it's not reasonable to pay a fortune for a single box of marines :/
I havent purchased any fg or recast minis yet, but i have and still am close to wanting to get some. I have however, gotten recast models for gunpla and whatnot. It sucks that for the most part, there doesn’t really seem to be a good reason to get official gw resin. Like I really like some of the designs from forge world and it feels wrong to spend money on a design thay the company who makes it won't see support for. Its also that for how premium feeling a lot of GW's recent products are that forge world still feels like some made-to-order parts shop instead of getting this grand packaging. On that note, if GW increased quality, lowered prices, but also made the experience and the presentation of opening forge world models better, i would totally buy them
Yep my experience in the uk with forgeworld has been alright, a few months bk i got a unit of Solar Auxilia Lasrifles and out of the unit i was missing about 7 dudes and a fast email to forgeworld and in a few weeks i got a all new pack.
But i do feel like buying solar Auxilia/ anything foreworld and even getting to the point of normal gw for me is massive cost investment.
I think for you guys in Australia it would be insane.
It's good to see that their customer service looked after you in this instance, it would be a real shame if they didn't.
If they didn't there would be hell to pay xD keep up the great vids Mr outer circle
Here in Canada recasts are still fairly new but are growing in popularity quickly. I have yet to dip in but after getting an order from FW that cost over 500 pounds and 1/4 were poor casts im getting more tempted to go the recast route. My Only issue with recasts here are all the Aholes who are trying to sell recasts on the 2nd hand market claiming they are FW.
Plus GW is already big in the video game market giving it´s base game a financial backup other producers don´t have.
If they’d just drop the price. People would go recast less often.
Forgeworld: Instructions unclear, we jacked prices up again
I've got 4 forge world primarchs, and one recast, which is of a comparable quality. With the price seeming to increase with every new primarch.. Alpharius, magnus and dorn pushing 80 GBP. I will be buying recast from China for my next ones. I can get 3 primarchs for the price of one, and I believe the quality is as good if not better. I assume the recasters buy releases straight away to ensure a good quality cast.
Well they killed specialist games, but people still want to play them.
O yeah...not to mention.... I'm still waiting for Forge World to send me the replacement part for the grav tank they sent me broken in the box. It's been 3 months already lol 🤣 and that's how I found my way to the mini black market...and I can't go back now, not when the black market has better customer support and prices. GW and FW shoot themselves in the foot. So I can never feel bad for them.
I'm shopping for a 3d printer now, all because of GW and FW.
Can you point me in the direction I might find some of these china forges ?
www.aliexpress.com/store/5048204?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000061.1.71a175ca4WCsOl
One of the main reason GW prices are as high as they are is because almost everything is made in Britain so they pay a good minimum wage to their employees. They're also really good to their employees which a lot of businesses can't say. Furthermore the big price hike in 2009 was probably due to the recession in the UK. Now that Britain's leaving the EU I wouldn't be surprised if we see another one.
Which is strange considering the VAT should go down or vanish if they leave the EU...
Brexit already has an effect, my cheapest non-recast option is to buy from the UK with 20-25% discount and ship it to Germany. The fx rate GBP EUR has shifted lot.
I'm not an expert I was just wondering.
£70 for 20 Solar Auxilia infantry... "no thanks"
they are gonna die instantly anyways
Here in the US, the pricing is not as bad as Austrailia, but it's still definitely not good at all.
Most of what is left of the local scene has switched to recasts for the sheer fact we're almost guaranteed high-quality molds with better resin, better customer service, and better detail overall with a minimum of "fixing what should not be broken with liquid green stuff."
GW all but killed the comic shop/game store industry here in the majority of my state, so it's play among friends & clubs with recasts or not at all as the closest GW store is over 120 miles away.
I won't argue the "morality" of recasts, but I will point out that GW's business decisions killed a LOT of small businesses and that is some of the lowest petty dirty pool I have seen from a company, and this all happened BEFORE the dumpster fire which is Age of Sigmar.
From my POV unless GW replaces 8th Ed. 40k with a more sensible distinct ruleset, opens up the market for the US and Canada for ma & pa shops, as well as lowers their prices to attainable competitive levels for the average individual they are on borrowed time for this entire continent.
Cheeky fuckers told me to put my greasy contemptor dreads in swarfega, made no difference and I never heard back after saying so and I'm in the UK.
They lost me when they stopped anyone shipping from UK to Australia. I was getting models from the UK for 50% below Australian retail. Since that embargo I never bought another army. Long live mantic!
A big point I made was that the embargo on shipping overseas hurt them, your experience echoes that.
Forgeworld / GW could quite easily remedy the recaster "issue" if they wanted to. Bring their prices more in line with what is reasonable and recasters won't get as much business.
Nobody (I hope) buys recasts of plastic Cadians, because the £18 price is not too bad in the first place. Obviously different if you're on Oz but as you say, prices in line with the rest of the world would fix that. Compare that to £44 for the same 10 regular humans from Forgeworld Solar Auxilia and its not difficult to see why folk flock to recasters for Forgeworld items. Make those Solar Auxilia squads £30 and most folk would just buy from Forgeworld rather than from China.
Forgeworld obviously don't see it as much of an issue otherwise they would do something about it.
The GST was introduced to Australia in 2000, and mail order bypassed the luxury taxes that were placed on imported non-essential collectables. You were a child at this time and explaining tax to you would have been pointless.
Games Workshop is stuck as long as they are a publicly traded. They are at the mercy of the investors. Until they go private again they are stuck and must cut coroners to keep their profit levels up.
Not true, this why McDonald do not charge $40 for fries. The highest prices do not get you the most money, expanding your market base or getting your customers to start collecting more armies.
Yo! I have recasts to compare to real forge world models....I have to mark the base so I can tell the difference....and they are not painted yet. 😂
Soooo happy to get the same exact FW model for $40 instead of $165.99
the only time i would ever expect games workshop to lower the prices, is when they are going under as a company and desperately trying to sell off assets.
what recasting websites do you suggest?
Black market miniatures only has so many.
www.aliexpress.com/store/5048204?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000061.1.71a175ca4WCsOl
Hahah, drop prices by 20%, good fucking luck
It's a solution, even if it would never happen.
I live in China and even if I wanted to support FW I couldn’t. They refuse to even sell the books here which is an absolute joke. But my 2 Custode Dreadnaughts cost £8 each so fuck it.
GW had a reasonable defense against recasts years ago, there models were better quality and more reliable product...but they messed all that up thx to poorer quality and price increases that outstrip any inflation. The recasts became better quality while remaining the cheaper option. The price of the hobby has never been cheap but prices went up while expendable income fell over the last few years. This leaves a black hole of a generation that never had the income to start the game thus you have less people to sell to.
This economic backlash increased GW price distance between their and the recast market even further pushing even loyal customers to buy the viable option. Then ofc there is the apocalypse release that needed even more units to play. Throw in insane discrepancy in prices between counties and what your left with is a company in a complete mess. They have spend far too much protecting their assets ie renaming all their paint for trademark reasons as well and the names of some factions instead of making their product worthy of its cost over the cheaper recasts.
Just for science! where would someone find such things?
leaving a dot for research purposes
EBAY is a great place to find them. Recasters have to be REALLY, REALLY hush hush about their stores, since there's a lot of people who BREATHE to fuck over recasters, either to get in good favour with Gdubs, or just for shits and giggles.
If you go on Ebay or something similair *Or look for models from Russians* You can usually spot a recast by the cost being surprisingly low, like a squad of MK3 space marines from Horus Heresy costing 30 bucks. If you find such a seller, you should be really careful about sharing their name out there.
Lallepop Lord of Ahegao I will pass this to R&D! (Cheers for the info! Epic of you!)
Check out Reddit/yoyhammer if you are interested in the recast market. A lot of reviews and info to be found there.
CutThisCity wow cheers!
"When parts don't make correctly "
When parts don't MATE correctly. As in, fit together.
Thank you for the informative video.
Also I claim this first in the name of the God-Emperor of Mankind. Thank you the Outer circle for the correction I shall lash myself now in penence.
Which God-Emperor?
The Outer Circle The Don Emperor of Mankind! :) nothing can Trump the Emperor...
High Confessor Nicodemus All hail the God-Emperor of Mankind and WWE Hall of Famer President Donald J. Trump!
I’ve bought one or two recast second hand from a guy at the store and it seams they make the models on par with forge world but with better quality control
More great work. I agree with recast. Mainly because of the +40% shipping costs (when I order Forgeworld products to providence Rhode Island/usa) not one single US distributor? Fuck ' em. Get your models where you can/ I can't pass judgement on a gamer who can't afford models just because of the bogus shipping expenses
PRICE PRICE PRICE I have been playing for over 25 years ,landraider when it came out 39 now 85 US for the same mold FW chaos warhound when it came out around 300 with every thing my wife bought me one 2 years ago 700 US for everything I can now buy a recast warhound for 200 recasters will win every time