The CL makes me happy, makes me wanna carry it every time I go outside, it looks beautiful, feels good to shoot, it’s a life companion, not just a technologic tool.
The CL is still a stunning little camera especially with the 18mm and 23mm lenses. I love the APS-C format on this camera as it adds a nice mount of extra depth of field for street photography shooting. If you can't take a good photograph on this camera then it's time to change hobbies 😛
I shoot with Sony to include an A7C, and just bought a used CL at a great price, with one 18mm 2.8 lens. I’m strictly photography and 90% black and white… I own 2 Voigtlander lenses 21mm & 35mm focal lengths, which adapted to my A7C makes for a mean street machine. BUT.. a friend shoots with her CL and that 18mm 2.8 and my 35mm Voit (50mm crop) and her black and white images even SOOC are so much better than what I can get out of my Sony, even post processed or otherwise, that my twisted little brain is into a year ahead with the CL… so yes, the CL is worth it in - 2023..
I own a CL and I truly love that camera! I mainly do portrait photography and I used to work with a Sony A7R iii with Zeiss Batis lenses, but I was always struggling with the colors, especially skin tones. The menu gave me many headaches and I lost the fun of photography, unless (or maybe because of?) the infinite possibilities to let the camera take over your work. Then I traded some old gear for a Leica X2: the colors were smashing and the experience of taking pictures reminded me of using a film camera. The X2's 16 MP and the fixed lens made the camera just a bit too limited for me to use for portraits, but I loved the Leica colors and - most important - the fun! Back to the basics: composition, aperture, shutter speed. I sold all of my gear and bought the CL with the 18, 35, 55-135 and the grip. The lenses are stellar, especially the 35, the camera is what I was always looking for and never found before. I don't regret it a single day!
I switched from Sony to Leica after trying the original T - the first L-mount camera - and just comparing colours and rendering. I had used several Sony bodies and very good lenses, but the little and by today’s standards hopelessly outdated T just delivered something else. Today I’m using the CL and trying film again.
I know you recorded this over a year ago, but… having owned the CL and trading ‘up’ to a Q2, i recently decided i needed a little more reach for a few planned trips. I didn’t want the bulk of the SL, or the commitment to the M, so i ordered a number of cameras from lens rentals, and tried the Fuji options. Although the H2 and X20 are brilliant cameras, in 2023 i opted for another CL and all Leica lenses for the cl, on the used market. I am so so happy to be back to what the cl offers. It is light, small, and simply don’t believe either the age, or image size are a negative. I am happy!
Not just my favorite camera, it's MY CAMERA. Never felt this way about a camera before -- like it's an extension of me. I acquired a full set of Leica APS-C lenses to go with it, and use them all. So when Leica announced they're scrapping APS-C, I was almost in a panic about having only 6 years support. So I bought a second used CL body so I'll have a spare to carry me past the 6 year limit if needed. I'm 83, and I'm expecting to keep this system the rest of my life. I doubt that any product of the L2 alliance would tempt me to switch.
Love my CL. It's a great companion to my SL. Sadly, Wetzlar is increasingly focused on promoting their luxury brand, appealing to the 1%. Not photographers. Getting people to shell out $8995 for a rangefinder is Leica's "core competency".
I have owned the CL for a number of years. I didn’t care about IBIS or a flip screen or any of that. I adored its simplicity. It delivered beautiful images every time. I didn’t spend a lot of time trying to understand menus and buttons. Leica delivered simplicity. It made you think more about the picture and less about how to use the camera.
Great video and I appreciate your speculation ("what ifs") regarding Leica's future with Panasonic & Sigma. B&H Photo is currently discounting the TL2 / 18-56mm lens combo so I bought one last week. I also purchased the Visoflex viewfinder for the TL2 which came in the mail yesterday. I've only gone out on one "photo walk" with the TL2 (without the Visoflex) and loved it! The colors and IQ are just amazing. I contacted Leica about servicing the TL2 before I purchased one, and the response was that they'd cover it for 6 years but indicated that I could expect maybe an additional 4 years of service if it doesn't require a part that's no longer in stock. I'm hoping to use this camera up to the point where it breaks and can't be serviced, but it would be wonderful if Panasonic ends up making a CL or TL equivalent that can use the Leica APS-C lenses. I plan to buy the Leica 18mm and would hate to think it's useless (along with the 18-56mm) when my TL2 breaks.
I love my CL and TL2. Form factors determine which one I’ll carry that day. In the words someone once said, “These cameras make me happy.” Only when I need a full frame do I break out my Leica SL, Sony A9, or Panasonic DC-S5. I have had several 42 or higher megapixel cameras before I realized 24 megapixels is more than enough; especially since I rarely crop. Large files that offer no real benefit to me.
I would buy a sub 5000$ CL form factor SL2-S akin to what Sony had done with the a7c as a more minimal and lower cost entry to the SL system. I know it would probably require a modest bump in size but it in my head it makes sense for the product line.
Love my CL, "I get it". Bought several years ago, matched it with a collection of R lenses, had to buy to adapters, R to M and M to L, and have added both R and M lenses over the years. Several years ago I wanted, or thought I did, an SL2. Went to my favorite store and shortly after physically seeing and holding the SL2, I figured, no thanks I'm good with the CL. It was everything the CL isn't, big, heavy and in your face loud.
I’m hoping that Leica’s exit from APSC and closer alignment with Panasonic via L2 will result in a top of the line rangefinder layout Pana Leica MFT body and an expanding range of PanaLeica MFT glass.
I think that's a spectacular notion.. I love my GX-8s--but they need an update..( I don't consider the GX-9 an update),,, and some of the Pana-Leica glass needs updates too,,So how about a sophisticated Hybrid AF to launch the L-squared into the next generation--wouldn't even have to be MFT--although if it was,, could save some cash...
I have had the CL and the Sigma FP. I recently sold the CL. The main Achilles’ heal of the FP and FPL is the lack of mechanical shutter. I preferred it in every way to the CL, but the CL saved my life when I was shooting a projecting artificial light and the banding from the FP was radical, random and tendered the images unusable.
Great video, as always. I love your content. After getting back into photography a couple of years ago with a FujiFilm xPro2 and adapters/classic glass (Zeiss/Contax, Nikkor ED, etc), then trading for a GFX50R, I just sold the GFX and got a used CL, a couple of Voightlander lenses and the Leica 18/2.8, and the Leica M adapter. I LOVE the ergonomics. I have the grip and thumb rest, and the camera is an absolute joy to use - the quality of construction and the aesthetic beauty are just breathtaking to me. I shoot in full manual with the EVF-only mode, and have been very pleased with the results. I took a step back in resolution (from the GFX), but gained what I was after in the overall shooting experience, with excellent image quality. I love shooting with the M-mount lenses, and look forward to adapting other manual lenses. For me, the CL hits my buttons, and was a reasonably affordable way to get into the Leica family.
You’ve had a wonderful experience!! I have a Fuji gfx and also use Fuji apsc cameras with different Voigt lenses and the results are very good with adapting Voigt lenses to Fuji apsc and I also love the gfx sensor and I’ve always thought of buying a cl too but wasn’t sure if it was worth it
Still love my CL and use it most of the time with various manual focus lenses. It produces great images and with the Leica menu system it just works for me!
I do not believe APSC (L-mount) will come again. Neither as Leica nor Panasonic. What I am most theist about - as a long-term user of Leica - is their way of not telling the truth. I will have a really hard time buying any Leica in L Mount. Why ? Leica is very expensive and that investment must be able to last for many years. In my 40 years of buying camera equipment, I have never sacrificed so much money on a system as they just finish. And yet they are not saying anything about what they want for us CL / TL2 users ? Do they make a smaller L Mount camera for example ?
Wonderful video, recently dusted off my CL, enjoying using it with a M f/2 50 lens. Trying to zone focus at f/11 and using focus peaking wide open. Enjoy the compact size and stealth appearance with street photography.
I have the CL’s cousin, the TL2. I bought it when the cameras were discontinued because just couldn’t pass it up (brand new for $950!). I didn’t know much about the T/L system at the time and was rather disappointed that there was only a few actual Leica lenses made for the system. But, I’m typically a one prime lens type of shooter. Added the 23mm Summicron and it’s incredible what the possibilities are. It seems to give a true film type of look without trying to add filters in post, silly shooting modes, etc. The build quality is really damn good and I always think that every time I pick the camera up, my feeling about it has never changed. If you want to start a wildfire of conversations from strangers, just take the TL2 out shooting for a while in public. I say all these points about the TL2 because I’d imagine the CL is the same exact way. Would be nothing short of a fantastic Leica shooting experience for a fraction of the M league prices. I’ve honestly thought about buying a spare TL2 or CL because there’s some new bodies still out there for sale at great prices. Yes…there’s some quirks like I wish AF was fast and better in lowlight etc. I have a few other cameras like a Pentax K1ll with Limited and DFA* lenses, an xpro 3 that has OVF, etc…I don’t say this as a means to brag. I say this because even though one’s a FF with great lenses, another is a technological APSC powerhouse…I STILL continually grab the Leica most often when heading out the door. That really says a lot about the TL2/CL cameras! Great video and content!
I just go a used CL as my first Leica. I am using it with Nikon f mount 35/f2, F mount 50/f2 and Yashica Ml 35 f/2.8. I just use manual mode. The images are fantastic. If this CL is an indication of what Leica images are like am now a convert . I don't care about IBS or autofocus. The build quality is incredible, menus simple. You are right, just appreciate for it is not what you should think it should be.
I have often been tempted to pick up a second-hand CL, but I have so far stuck with the M10 and SL2-S. After watching this, I am tempted again. By the way, Pentax has had IBIS in its APS-C DSLRs for a very long time. I guess you meant mirrorless cameras when you said none had it in 2017, at 9:18 in the video.
As you know, I’m not very handy with brand comparisons primarily because I’ve only owned one. My CL had been dormant in my bag for a couple of years, but that changed over the last year. Hauling my SL2 and M10 between New York City and Freeport, New Jersey was OK, but got to be a bit of a load after a while. On a fast turnaround trip to Freehold, I took the lens hood off and dropped the CL into my vest pocket. By the time I got to Freehold I didn’t even remember I had it with me. On that trip the CL performed marvelously in the high noon sun as well as evening darkness. Would the purchase be worth it today? I don’t know. But I’m damn sure happy I spent the money in 2019.
I bought the CL because of Leica's reputation, size, weight, and lens options for the camera, small Voigtlanders are perfect for the CL. So upon learning of the discontinuance of the CL, the camera I bought six months ago, I felt like I was left holding the bag. But wait, the bag has the Leica CL inside. All is as it should be. Hugh, the grainy b/w of you looking then turning and walking away, slow motion, is very pleasing, and again shows how black and white evokes emotions. Thanks.
What's really interesting to me is the existing TL lenses were ostensibly designed for sensors larger than 24MP, I especially wonder if the TL f2 23 (criminally underrated lens in my opinion) could benefit from more MPs. Fingers crossed that Panasonic (or Sigma) let me answer this question!
So far the only the only thing I don't like about the Leica CL is the battery life. It's a wonderful and fun camera which make stunning photos whose colors are true to life. I have to admit I use the manual focus almost exclusively over the autofocus. And there is one thing I don't understand: why the JPGs are cropped and the DMG files aren't.
I’m still loving my CL. But I may have purchased my last Leica TL lens - the last two lenses I’ve purchased were the 24mm & 90mm from Sigma, both of which feel like they were designed for the CL.
You really nailed the question that is echoing through the blackness,,, What is L-squared actually going to mean,,if anything. I have circled the CL for 2 years..but really have been happy with my 2 GX-8s and Pana-Leica primes. I even bought a Panasonic S5 so I could dip my toe in the L-Mount ecosystem. Nothing could make me happier than to find there is new rangefinder bodied, L-Mount gear in the pipeline-- I wouldn't care if it said Lumix on the front--and my wallet would probably be happier too. Would Panasonic take on a 3rd Format?? Hmmmmm....Imagine a G9 successor, having Lumix video acumen.. a CL inspired body,, with articulating screen,,stick the L squared label on the lower front and introduce a next-gen hybrid focus to set it on a new course... The mind boggles...
FWIW, especially so late (as usual - me!), having watched your videos too often for safety I added a new 2/3 or less price CL to the lovely TL2 (with less than lovely Visoflex) and love it. I didn’t want the size of the SL after leaving Canon (and a huge Nikon F5 with battery grip) and for where I want to go and shoot. I had a Fuji XH1 and much prefer the CL. Also sold my Fuji X100V. Again no comparison imho. Two Sony RX lasted no time; flaky build quality and both with sticking apertures when cold. Sony A7R3 suffered from ‘The Ugly’ and THAT menu system! I’d like IBIS but higher ISO is no worry given the sensor and I love using it with M Mount and OM Zuiko manual lenses, with the fantastic ability to zoom in with just a quick turn if the right side dial. The 11-23 zoom is great and the 60mm Macro reminds me of my old 100mm Elmarit R 2.8 - one of the best lenses ever! And then there is the best colour out of the box I have ever had. And the menu system and quick operability of both CL and TL2 is worth a lot, to me. Can’t see me selling either for a long time…
Industrial Design You hit the nail on the head I love my CL and the experience But recently I’ve started to wonder: is my love affair with the Summilux-TL 35 f/1.4 ASPH ? I have the 23 too but … My use case is simple: my kids grow every year, now 20 and 19 at Uni and the beauty in the photographs on holiday or on special occasions is totally unmatched. Would be interested in any feedback on any truly superior lens ir camera. I also have an iPhone 13 Pro which is definitely a big upgrade on my previous X. I bought the CL originally as a true portable camera … this still holds true.
I think the price elasticity for Leica products is too low for APS-C to make much sense in the current market. I guess it could for Panasonic, but that would signal that they've given up on mFT.
I suspect the CL/TL2 is simply incompatible with the branding that Leica has established. Selling the CL and TL2 in the Leica stores next to Q2, SL and S cameras (sticking to auto focus) would be like Hermes selling Birkin bags made of vinyl. I had a CL and ultimately ditched that camera for the SL and currently the SL2. I've kept the TL lenses however. On the SL2 the image size of approximately 20MP is more than enough to get a very nice 20X30 print. The TL lenses have excellent color and contrast and the weight and size on the SL2 give me all-day carry around without killing my arthritis addled neck. I'm particularly fond of the little 18-56 zoom on my SL2. Thanks for this video, reminding me of how much I did not like the CL yet almost always grab my SL2 with TL lenses when heading out.
If you use the CL to its strengths, as an easily portable walk-around photo camera, it is still a great camera in my opinion and still does a lot very well. I really love it paired with TL 35mm f1.4 lens. With the TL 18mm or 23mm lenses it is almost pocketable and direct competition to the Ricoh GRIII or Fuji X100V. It's fun to use with manual M-glass, from Leica, Voigtlander or Zeiss. I was never sold on Leica's standard TL zoom, but do enjoy the new Sigma 18-50mm f2.8 with it which is a budget option. And more Sigma APC-lenses have come out, which are compelling options, less pricy than Leica's. Hence for a lightweight every day carry camera, it's still a great choice. If you fancy a 'can do it all'-hybrid, it is really the wrong choice, but that was already the case at the time of its release. I am keeping mine and enjoy some more years of use out of it.
This year I will be shooting primarily my Q2M with I think I love. But, I also wanted a small color camera around too, so I just got a nice used CL and am pairing it with the TL Lux 35 1.4. They both make me smile :) They also make me want to take pictures, which is the idea, no? Thanks for the lovely essay Hugh. You always end up seeing the quality in photo life.
Maybe tech has evolved enough to stuff a full frame sensor in the CL Body. An affordable option to put M lenses on and have EVF in compact package. Just wondering/dreaming?
I’d love Leica to make native X mount glass. Exit the camera game in all but full frame and make glass for APSC and M43. Focus on SL, M, and Q lines. I think there is definitely a gap in the market for premium APSC 3rd party glass. I’m hoping that Sigma start releasing some APSC DGDN glass, but I’m sure people would love Leica glass for their APSC cameras, especially considering it looks like APSC might be about to have a revival.
The CL is a beautiful little camera! However, at my ol' age late last year I had a crisis. I wanted to streamline my digital camera gear to the bare bone minimum, with the intent of becoming very skillful with the camera I decided to get. Note, this did not include the collection of my film cameras. And so, after much thought and consideration I traded in my gear, which included the CL for the robust SL2-S which has met my needs in the southwest; to include, photographing the coming monsoons and all things outdoors come rain or shine, hot and cold. Having said that though, I did keep my 'Sunday go meeting' digital camera, the Leica M240.
I think I understand why Leica exited the APS-C market. But Leica‘s APS-C system still makes total sense to me. I‘ll keep using my CL, and I don‘t even throw away my old T. And that‘s after trying the M10, M10M and Q2. And several Sony cameras.
Clearly, I preferred CL. If the industrial design and heritage are your two primary considerations, I’d look for a bargain used. But for pure performance, the LUMIX S5 is a significantly more capable platform, and it uses the same mount.
I admit I'm spoiled. Not rich, but spoiled. I've been shooting the Leica Q since December of 2015 and added the CL in 2019. It's a great combination. Just a few months ago I bit the bullet, selling my Nikon Z gear to get an SL2. No regrets, by the way. However, my plan also included selling the CL because I can get really fine 20 MP files with my CL (TL) lenses on the SL2 (as opposed to 24 on the CL), but I just can't do it. I just can't sell that CL.
No other APSC camera gives the colors CL does. I couldnt care less about image stabilization. I reject image stabilized Sony photos when it comes with Sony colors. The TL 35mm f1.4 lens is far superior to any Sony lenses. Paired with the M 50mm Summilux, the pictures it give are similar to a SL with a 50 noctilux. I really like the CL. I would certainly purchase a FP with a mechanical shutter and a CL body and EVF. FP.. is unusable under artificial light due to the banding problems.
If the CL had a 42MP sensor, would it destroy the Q? And if the Q had interchangeable lenses, would it destroy the M? And if you have a SL2, do you still need an S ? Sometimes I really don't get Leica. Beside that I've been working with the CL for 4 years now, and I think it's a great camera. Perfect built quality, easy to handle, good picture quality, etc.. I'm not carrying 20lb of gear and..it's quite affordable for a Leica! Perhaps Fuji or Panasonic can provide a similar camera for less money, but you simply want the Leica! The only thing I don't like is the max shutter speed of 30sec, and no Bulb. My dream Leica camera would be a CL with 36 or 42 MP, up to 4 min shutter speed and B, and without all the video stuff...just a real photo camera.
Brand new here to learning about w and how they work and crafting, I am switching to leica any time now, first need the budget! But which one is a better option? TL2 or CL for portraits and fashion photography?
Currently awaiting the arrival of my 1st child in less than 6 weeks (yes nervous, yes excited, yes all the emotions that come with being an expectant father) and I’m pondering between a lovely condition used Leica Q and a lovely condition Leica CL for about the same money once I factor in a lens. Do you have any suggestions or preferences? I’ve used Fuji (not for me), I’ve used Sony (no soul) and I previously had an SL2-s but sold it when we found out we were expecting to fund a more family friendly car (and I miss it every day 😅)
Depends on what field of view(s) matter most to you; whether or not you want interchangeable lenses; and how much depreciation matters to you. PS: CONGRATS!
We don’t need more crop sensors from Panasonic. We need a Z5 competitor with good auto focus. L-mount has amazing glass but no way to use it in an affordable fashion.
I love my cl that you recommended to me several years ago. The 35 1.4 is incredible glass and seldom comes off. I am curious… the black and white photos you posted, did you convert from raw, or do you ever use Leila’s bw jpegs?
Looking for a new camera because my huge and heavy Canon L lenses always slept in the closet, I touched many cameras X100V, XT4, GFX50S II (amazing but too big), OM-1 and I did what I should not : go to a Leica store and try a Q2 Monochrom. It immediatly felt right, nothing more to say… but the price… for a complete beginner… I wanted full frame of course, I started to look at the pre-owned market, was near to push the trigger for a used M10 because viewfinder is fun. But so much money for an old sensor was a little bit frustrating, Q2 fixed lens is also frustrating because I prefer 50mm and more… I missed a good deal for a pre owned SL2S (even if a little bit too big). I started to felt in love with the M11 but the price… and maybe I would love a M11 with an EVF (shame on me I know). Or at least a Q3 with interchangeable lenses (not anymore a Q maybe) ? And suddenly I look at the CL and realised that full frame would be the only compromised to accept… but Leica decided to leave the APSC market. But I found a good deal for a pre owned CL. No way to buy APSC lens so I bought a sigma 45mm f2.8 with the aperture ring to be as near as possible to the M experience… I bought a Rock n Roll mamba strap and man… it works !!! It’s amazing ! In fact, I did only one mistake I have to fix : buy an M adapter and put old M lenses on it :) Well built, simple to use, ability to configure most of the button and don’t use half of them most of the time… Is it worth it, yes for me because simplicity, built quality and wearing this camera is a pleasure, so I grab it with me… Will I keep it ? Will see but if an M with ab integrated EVF or a Q3 with interchangeable leans appears… not sure… but it will hit hard the bank account :) Love your channel, Hugh and pictures also !!! Very inspirational
Great vid. Thing is it is all about preference, bias and a bit of so called magic everybody wants in life. It is like playing a Gibson or Fender guitar (as opposed to an Ibanez or Yamaha). Many people like to be 'sucked' into that magic because it gives them a sense of importance. "Look at me! I shoot Leica, Hasselblad"..
Isn't it true that Cariter-Bresson didn't like any perspective distortion which is why he was married to the 50mm? Maybe a Fuji with the $200 35mm XC lens or, yeah, the iPhone with the "portrait" focal lens.
Hugh, "I can't bring myself to sell my CL"!!! Ditto. Even with all those "better" cameras you mentioned, there is a combination of size, weight, quality and aesthetics that are compelling. Going on a long hike with the CL is a pleasure. No other similar sized system is smaller/lighter. Fuji does not even come close given its ever increasing sized glass. If you want small size, light weight, great image quality - the CL is, at least to me, the complete system. In fact, if the CL does break, just substitute the SL2 and you can keep using the same small, light, high quality glass and the complete system is still lighter, smaller than the comparable Fuji offering. Terrific video, as usual.
Only got 5mins into this when a courier interrupted bringing my new silver Leica TL2 ,Summicron-TL 23mm f/2 ASPH lens & a (Typ 020) EVF . I have always regretted selling my TL2 start of lockdown. I still have the half case, red rope strap and L mount adapters for my Nikon and M mount lenses. How lucky was I to buy a barely used mint condition one for less money than I sold my old one? Watching this to remind me of the Leica buzz. Excuse me, must get back to watching the end of this - winks
P.S. Threw down this challenge to Leica on Twitter - Hoi Leica, a challenge!!! Owned X113,T,TL2 & sold them last year because no APSc (I get it) but, now missing them. T was the most radical design in history & love the interface. So, why no Full Frame TL3; I'd buy one. If Sony can do the A7c then you can. - Now remembering how to set my new TL2 up; Version 5 has nested folders, dont think that was an improvement; loved the simplicity of the original T interface. New one comes with a black Leica leather strap but, prefer my red rope strap. It wont supplant my Sony A7ii, A6500, A6000 or Nikon D610 but, it will be a nice nostalgia trip now and then regardless. Exciting times ;-)
Yet! Here I am awaiting delivery of an Olympus EM1 mkIII and 12-40 f2.8 despite owning 2 Nikon D850 and an XT2 & XH1. APSC? Too big! Watch this space. Will retirement finally reveal which system really delivers what counts?
If Leica were to look at the popularity of their camera models over the last few years, they would drop the CL line and come up with an interchangeable lens Q!
Now I'm on holiday in Italy. I have leica MD (without screen) with various optics. And I have TL2 with 11-23 / 35 / 55-135. I take my TL2 out again and again. Where can I find such a compact 70-200 mm so light and in such good quantity. Shit at leica has dropped CL2. If I like we have an M11 - yes yes - but I do not buy it. The difference is too small for my use. The price is too high. SL is way too big. So right now I do not think there is that much future for me in Leica? Brown what do I do? I may use what I have but would like to upgrade to more MP and better AF
I went with the Q2 for my daily carry camera, but I'm still disappointed to see Leica ditch the CL. It's a great little camera and a more affordable entry point into the Leicaverse than either the Q2 or M cameras. It's a shame to see the CL go...
In my opinion the question if a camera is still worthy at any given time has to do with another question: do you really need a new camera? I know many people who upgrades for upgrade’s sake or because of G.A.S. For me, for example, the only reasons to replace my (not so old) Canon APS-C DSLR would be: a) in case of damage. a) for upgrade purposes, and in this case I would go to FF for certain. But for more megapixels or IBIS… no! For the CL itself, I have my reservations. Even though I am shooting with APSC cameras for a decade and I love the format, i think Leica is all about Full Frame. I mean, if I had to pay that much, I would prefer the full Leica experience. As you said in the video, especially now, there are much better APSC cameras out there for half the price. Now, for a CL owner the things are a bit different. If you choose to go for a newer APSC camera you loose the Leica glass (for me that’s most important) and while the others has improved lately, the difference in quality is still there. I also have one question for you Hugh: I noticed that you wish for a 40 megapixel apsc sensor. But what’s the use for it? Even a 32 megapixel APSC is more pixel dense than a FF equivalent and you can crop physically by using a FF lens. To the contrary, by increasing the megapixel count you gonna loose in light gathering ability. Or maybe I am missing something here…🤔
It’s a function of what and how I shoot: for urban landscape, I like to travel light, preferring a higher resolution sensor to longer glass (all else being equal). The lack of weight is obvious, but so, actually, is my desire to capture the full richness and nuance, edge to edge, of a city’s shapes and textures. This is why I love my M11. In low light, I remain at low ISO - and brace the camera. For very low light, I use a lightweight tripod.
I love my CL and those wonderful lenses! It's been my every day carry for years, and I can't see that changing anytime soon. I really hope Leica changes their minds on this. Hearing the news made me want to buy a second one before they go up in price on the used market :-)
We just need Sony to release a high performing compact 23mm f2 and 18mm f2 already. Been waiting almost 10 years. It's ridiculous considering how many APS-C bodies they've released.
I could see the CL becoming a FF body to take advantage of the FF sensors that Leica buys anyways. At some point Leica will need to address the the dual mount ecosystem they have created, L and M, and find a better way of users cohabitating that investment rather than sticking an M lens on a large SLR shaped body. The next SL is on track to become a 60MP body and I am sure Leica posses a lot of 24MP M10 sensors they could downcycle into the existing CL shell and mount. The economics don't require APS-C and M's continue to get astronomically expensive to build. EVF camera is already much cheaper and few would come close to an EV rangefinder style body in FF (Sony A7C).
Any auto-focus, mirrorless ILC system without IBIS today is doomed. I would have considered an IBIS CL2 over any SL. The SL bodies are too big and clumsy for me.
Superiority perhaps is not the word. Be a straight photographer and impose yourself technical boundaries rather relying on the latest gimmick. this is what I tell myself when I see my friends their new Kalo wonders...
@@3BMEP I think their issue is that each unit is made to order by hand, so they would need to be certain they could sell the evaluation unit. I'm very, very tempted to pull the trigger. It would be a really nice complement to my Sigma FP-L.
Cameras come and go and so do Leica employees. I’m sure the CL will be back inn the future and meanwhile could the current version become a collectors camera or sought after by photographer who don’t want all the bells and whistles and just want to go out there and take pictures like you and Claudia did, I wouldn’t sell it if I was you. 😊
I wonder whether Leica will introduce a new entry-level to their line-up, and what it would be. With the CL out of their line-up, their current entry level starts at USD 5,000 and upwards for a body only which is a very high barrier to entry for most as it basically starts with an USD 8,000 kit. And at that price point, they have some very strong and capable competitors! Fuji GFX100s? Sony A1? Canon R5 and R3? etc.
My father bought a mechanical Leica in the late 60's.... still works! Once the sensor or electronics become uneconomic to repair after 10/15 years your $10,000 'modern' Leica becomes a paperweight. So no modern Lieica aren't worth it.
Great video 👌 I’ve heard Fujifilm will start using Samsung sensors in Fuji cameras very soon as Samsungs sensors are able to gather more light on apsc than full frame camera sensors and it’s interesting news
If Leica had come out with a IBIS CL I would still have one. The lack of IBIS got be to buy a SL2-S and move my Sigma L mount lens over to it. It’s been sitting on my shelf as other IBIS equipped cameras have come in. I currently use my Nikon Z7II the most for the types of photography I do. I just sold the CL and its Vario-Elmar 18-56 and used the money to pre-order the Canon R7. The R7 is to try out the higher end autofocus for when I want to shoot birds and wildlife. I will miss the ease of use the CL had that I found even better then the SL2-S.
The CL makes me happy, makes me wanna carry it every time I go outside, it looks beautiful, feels good to shoot, it’s a life companion, not just a technologic tool.
I fully agree, remains a great camera
Yes!
How right you are. Sadly mine was stolen, but I think I need to re-equip. No desire to change.
I got my CL in May 2022 and still love it. One of the best camera experiences from a digital I've used since shooting film.
The CL is still a stunning little camera especially with the 18mm and 23mm lenses. I love the APS-C format on this camera as it adds a nice mount of extra depth of field for street photography shooting. If you can't take a good photograph on this camera then it's time to change hobbies 😛
I shoot with Sony to include an A7C, and just bought a used CL at a great price, with one 18mm 2.8 lens. I’m strictly photography and 90% black and white… I own 2 Voigtlander lenses 21mm & 35mm focal lengths, which adapted to my A7C makes for a mean street machine. BUT.. a friend shoots with her CL and that 18mm 2.8 and my 35mm Voit (50mm crop) and her black and white images even SOOC are so much better than what I can get out of my Sony, even post processed or otherwise, that my twisted little brain is into a year ahead with the CL… so yes, the CL is worth it in - 2023..
I sold my Q after 3 years of loving it and got the CL. I couldn’t see myself using any other camera now.
I own a CL and I truly love that camera! I mainly do portrait photography and I used to work with a Sony A7R iii with Zeiss Batis lenses, but I was always struggling with the colors, especially skin tones. The menu gave me many headaches and I lost the fun of photography, unless (or maybe because of?) the infinite possibilities to let the camera take over your work. Then I traded some old gear for a Leica X2: the colors were smashing and the experience of taking pictures reminded me of using a film camera. The X2's 16 MP and the fixed lens made the camera just a bit too limited for me to use for portraits, but I loved the Leica colors and - most important - the fun! Back to the basics: composition, aperture, shutter speed. I sold all of my gear and bought the CL with the 18, 35, 55-135 and the grip. The lenses are stellar, especially the 35, the camera is what I was always looking for and never found before. I don't regret it a single day!
Wonderful! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
I switched from Sony to Leica after trying the original T - the first L-mount camera - and just comparing colours and rendering. I had used several Sony bodies and very good lenses, but the little and by today’s standards hopelessly outdated T just delivered something else. Today I’m using the CL and trying film again.
I know you recorded this over a year ago, but… having owned the CL and trading ‘up’ to a Q2, i recently decided i needed a little more reach for a few planned trips. I didn’t want the bulk of the SL, or the commitment to the M, so i ordered a number of cameras from lens rentals, and tried the Fuji options. Although the H2 and X20 are brilliant cameras, in 2023 i opted for another CL and all Leica lenses for the cl, on the used market. I am so so happy to be back to what the cl offers. It is light, small, and simply don’t believe either the age, or image size are a negative. I am happy!
Not just my favorite camera, it's MY CAMERA. Never felt this way about a camera before -- like it's an extension of me. I acquired a full set of Leica APS-C lenses to go with it, and use them all. So when Leica announced they're scrapping APS-C, I was almost in a panic about having only 6 years support. So I bought a second used CL body so I'll have a spare to carry me past the 6 year limit if needed. I'm 83, and I'm expecting to keep this system the rest of my life. I doubt that any product of the L2 alliance would tempt me to switch.
Love my CL. It's a great companion to my SL. Sadly, Wetzlar is increasingly focused on promoting their luxury brand, appealing to the 1%. Not photographers. Getting people to shell out $8995 for a rangefinder is Leica's "core competency".
Or core incompetency
I have owned the CL for a number of years. I didn’t care about IBIS or a flip screen or any of that. I adored its simplicity. It delivered beautiful images every time. I didn’t spend a lot of time trying to understand menus and buttons. Leica delivered simplicity. It made you think more about the picture and less about how to use the camera.
Great video and I appreciate your speculation ("what ifs") regarding Leica's future with Panasonic & Sigma. B&H Photo is currently discounting the TL2 / 18-56mm lens combo so I bought one last week. I also purchased the Visoflex viewfinder for the TL2 which came in the mail yesterday. I've only gone out on one "photo walk" with the TL2 (without the Visoflex) and loved it! The colors and IQ are just amazing. I contacted Leica about servicing the TL2 before I purchased one, and the response was that they'd cover it for 6 years but indicated that I could expect maybe an additional 4 years of service if it doesn't require a part that's no longer in stock. I'm hoping to use this camera up to the point where it breaks and can't be serviced, but it would be wonderful if Panasonic ends up making a CL or TL equivalent that can use the Leica APS-C lenses. I plan to buy the Leica 18mm and would hate to think it's useless (along with the 18-56mm) when my TL2 breaks.
I love my CL and TL2. Form factors determine which one I’ll carry that day. In the words someone once said, “These cameras make me happy.”
Only when I need a full frame do I break out my Leica SL, Sony A9, or Panasonic DC-S5.
I have had several 42 or higher megapixel cameras before I realized 24 megapixels is more than enough; especially since I rarely crop. Large files that offer no real benefit to me.
I would buy a sub 5000$ CL form factor SL2-S akin to what Sony had done with the a7c as a more minimal and lower cost entry to the SL system. I know it would probably require a modest bump in size but it in my head it makes sense for the product line.
Love my CL, "I get it". Bought several years ago, matched it with a collection of R lenses, had to buy to adapters, R to M and M to L, and have added both R and M lenses over the years. Several years ago I wanted, or thought I did, an SL2. Went to my favorite store and shortly after physically seeing and holding the SL2, I figured, no thanks I'm good with the CL. It was everything the CL isn't, big, heavy and in your face loud.
You did the right thing.I shoot an SL2S along side my CL or rather I should but most often I don`t . Too big and heavy and the AF sucks big time.
Is there anything in 2024 that we mere mortals can afford, that will produce that beautiful "Leica look"?
I’m hoping that Leica’s exit from APSC and closer alignment with Panasonic via L2 will result in a top of the line rangefinder layout Pana Leica MFT body and an expanding range of PanaLeica MFT glass.
I think that's a spectacular notion.. I love my GX-8s--but they need an update..( I don't consider the GX-9 an update),,, and some of the Pana-Leica glass needs updates too,,So how about a sophisticated Hybrid AF to launch the L-squared into the next generation--wouldn't even have to be MFT--although if it was,, could save some cash...
I have had the CL and the Sigma FP. I recently sold the CL. The main Achilles’ heal of the FP and FPL is the lack of mechanical shutter. I preferred it in every way to the CL, but the CL saved my life when I was shooting a projecting artificial light and the banding from the FP was radical, random and tendered the images unusable.
Great video, as always. I love your content.
After getting back into photography a couple of years ago with a FujiFilm xPro2 and adapters/classic glass (Zeiss/Contax, Nikkor ED, etc), then trading for a GFX50R, I just sold the GFX and got a used CL, a couple of Voightlander lenses and the Leica 18/2.8, and the Leica M adapter. I LOVE the ergonomics. I have the grip and thumb rest, and the camera is an absolute joy to use - the quality of construction and the aesthetic beauty are just breathtaking to me. I shoot in full manual with the EVF-only mode, and have been very pleased with the results. I took a step back in resolution (from the GFX), but gained what I was after in the overall shooting experience, with excellent image quality. I love shooting with the M-mount lenses, and look forward to adapting other manual lenses.
For me, the CL hits my buttons, and was a reasonably affordable way to get into the Leica family.
You’ve had a wonderful experience!! I have a Fuji gfx and also use Fuji apsc cameras with different Voigt lenses and the results are very good with adapting Voigt lenses to Fuji apsc and I also love the gfx sensor and I’ve always thought of buying a cl too but wasn’t sure if it was worth it
Still love my CL and use it most of the time with various manual focus lenses. It produces great images and with the Leica menu system it just works for me!
I do not believe APSC (L-mount) will come again. Neither as Leica nor Panasonic. What I am most theist about - as a long-term user of Leica - is their way of not telling the truth. I will have a really hard time buying any Leica in L Mount. Why ? Leica is very expensive and that investment must be able to last for many years. In my 40 years of buying camera equipment, I have never sacrificed so much money on a system as they just finish. And yet they are not saying anything about what they want for us CL / TL2 users ? Do they make a smaller L Mount camera for example ?
17:20 has the Lumix S9 partly delivered here...
Wonderful video, recently dusted off my CL, enjoying using it with a M f/2 50 lens. Trying to zone focus at f/11 and using focus peaking wide open. Enjoy the compact size and stealth appearance with street photography.
I have the CL’s cousin, the TL2. I bought it when the cameras were discontinued because just couldn’t pass it up (brand new for $950!). I didn’t know much about the T/L system at the time and was rather disappointed that there was only a few actual Leica lenses made for the system. But, I’m typically a one prime lens type of shooter. Added the 23mm Summicron and it’s incredible what the possibilities are. It seems to give a true film type of look without trying to add filters in post, silly shooting modes, etc. The build quality is really damn good and I always think that every time I pick the camera up, my feeling about it has never changed. If you want to start a wildfire of conversations from strangers, just take the TL2 out shooting for a while in public. I say all these points about the TL2 because I’d imagine the CL is the same exact way. Would be nothing short of a fantastic Leica shooting experience for a fraction of the M league prices. I’ve honestly thought about buying a spare TL2 or CL because there’s some new bodies still out there for sale at great prices. Yes…there’s some quirks like I wish AF was fast and better in lowlight etc. I have a few other cameras like a Pentax K1ll with Limited and DFA* lenses, an xpro 3 that has OVF, etc…I don’t say this as a means to brag. I say this because even though one’s a FF with great lenses, another is a technological APSC powerhouse…I STILL continually grab the Leica most often when heading out the door. That really says a lot about the TL2/CL cameras! Great video and content!
I just go a used CL as my first Leica. I am using it with Nikon f mount 35/f2, F mount 50/f2 and Yashica Ml 35 f/2.8. I just use manual mode. The images are fantastic. If this CL is an indication of what Leica images are like am now a convert . I don't care about IBS or autofocus. The build quality is incredible, menus simple. You are right, just appreciate for it is not what you should think it should be.
Using lens made in Japan on a leica is like mixing water with a good wine…
I have often been tempted to pick up a second-hand CL, but I have so far stuck with the M10 and SL2-S. After watching this, I am tempted again. By the way, Pentax has had IBIS in its APS-C DSLRs for a very long time. I guess you meant mirrorless cameras when you said none had it in 2017, at 9:18 in the video.
Thank you for offering the clarification.😊🖖🏻
Still love my CL with the compact design, M homage, ability to mount M lenses and using the built-in EVF. What not to like? Thanks Hugh!
👊🏻😊🖖🏻
My wish is for Leica to create a full frame version of the CL with “ins” at the same size as Sony A7c. I still might buy the CL.
As you know, I’m not very handy with brand comparisons primarily because I’ve only owned one. My CL had been dormant in my bag for a couple of years, but that changed over the last year. Hauling my SL2 and M10 between New York City and Freeport, New Jersey was OK, but got to be a bit of a load after a while. On a fast turnaround trip to Freehold, I took the lens hood off and dropped the CL into my vest pocket. By the time I got to Freehold I didn’t even remember I had it with me. On that trip the CL performed marvelously in the high noon sun as well as evening darkness. Would the purchase be worth it today? I don’t know. But I’m damn sure happy I spent the money in 2019.
Excellent use case, brother!
I bought the CL because of Leica's reputation, size, weight, and lens options for the camera, small Voigtlanders are perfect for the CL. So upon learning of the discontinuance of the CL, the camera I bought six months ago, I felt like I was left holding the bag. But wait, the bag has the Leica CL inside. All is as it should be. Hugh, the grainy b/w of you looking then turning and walking away, slow motion, is very pleasing, and again shows how black and white evokes emotions. Thanks.
Love this! Separately: that was Claudia’s filmmaking all the way!
What's really interesting to me is the existing TL lenses were ostensibly designed for sensors larger than 24MP, I especially wonder if the TL f2 23 (criminally underrated lens in my opinion) could benefit from more MPs. Fingers crossed that Panasonic (or Sigma) let me answer this question!
I’m certain it could.
Not sure if Claudia is still using the Z7II, but if she is, M lenses on that camera are wonderful. Cheers.
Disappointed that Leica seem to have given up on APS-C.
So far the only the only thing I don't like about the Leica CL is the battery life. It's a wonderful and fun camera which make stunning photos whose colors are true to life. I have to admit I use the manual focus almost exclusively over the autofocus. And there is one thing I don't understand: why the JPGs are cropped and the DMG files aren't.
I’m still loving my CL. But I may have purchased my last Leica TL lens - the last two lenses I’ve purchased were the 24mm & 90mm from Sigma, both of which feel like they were designed for the CL.
Right? That 90 on the CL is basically a 135/4! I keep meaning to try it out that way. Next time!
You really nailed the question that is echoing through the blackness,,, What is L-squared actually going to mean,,if anything. I have circled the CL for 2 years..but really have been happy with my 2 GX-8s and Pana-Leica primes. I even bought a Panasonic S5 so I could dip my toe in the L-Mount ecosystem. Nothing could make me happier than to find there is new rangefinder bodied, L-Mount gear in the pipeline-- I wouldn't care if it said Lumix on the front--and my wallet would probably be happier too. Would Panasonic take on a 3rd Format?? Hmmmmm....Imagine a G9 successor, having Lumix video acumen.. a CL inspired body,, with articulating screen,,stick the L squared label on the lower front and introduce a next-gen hybrid focus to set it on a new course... The mind boggles...
FWIW, especially so late (as usual - me!), having watched your videos too often for safety I added a new 2/3 or less price CL to the lovely TL2 (with less than lovely Visoflex) and love it.
I didn’t want the size of the SL after leaving Canon (and a huge Nikon F5 with battery grip) and for where I want to go and shoot. I had a Fuji XH1 and much prefer the CL. Also sold my Fuji X100V. Again no comparison imho. Two Sony RX lasted no time; flaky build quality and both with sticking apertures when cold. Sony A7R3 suffered from ‘The Ugly’ and THAT menu system!
I’d like IBIS but higher ISO is no worry given the sensor and I love using it with M Mount and OM Zuiko manual lenses, with the fantastic ability to zoom in with just a quick turn if the right side dial. The 11-23 zoom is great and the 60mm Macro reminds me of my old 100mm Elmarit R 2.8 - one of the best lenses ever!
And then there is the best colour out of the box I have ever had.
And the menu system and quick operability of both CL and TL2 is worth a lot, to me.
Can’t see me selling either for a long time…
Wonderful! Enjoy!
@@3BMEP I am, I am. No full frame now; zero regrets. Lovely cameras (and lenses!).
Industrial Design
You hit the nail on the head
I love my CL and the experience
But recently I’ve started to wonder: is my love affair with the Summilux-TL 35 f/1.4 ASPH ? I have the 23 too but …
My use case is simple: my kids grow every year, now 20 and 19 at Uni and the beauty in the photographs on holiday or on special occasions is totally unmatched.
Would be interested in any feedback on any truly superior lens ir camera.
I also have an iPhone 13 Pro which is definitely a big upgrade on my previous X.
I bought the CL originally as a true portable camera … this still holds true.
Very sad to see Leica dropping their APS-C lines. I like the cameras and the lenses are amazing optically!
I hear you. Perhaps there is life for the CL after Leica per se…
I think the price elasticity for Leica products is too low for APS-C to make much sense in the current market. I guess it could for Panasonic, but that would signal that they've given up on mFT.
I suspect the CL/TL2 is simply incompatible with the branding that Leica has established. Selling the CL and TL2 in the Leica stores next to Q2, SL and S cameras (sticking to auto focus) would be like Hermes selling Birkin bags made of vinyl.
I had a CL and ultimately ditched that camera for the SL and currently the SL2. I've kept the TL lenses however. On the SL2 the image size of approximately 20MP is more than enough to get a very nice 20X30 print.
The TL lenses have excellent color and contrast and the weight and size on the SL2 give me all-day carry around without killing my arthritis addled neck. I'm particularly fond of the little 18-56 zoom on my SL2.
Thanks for this video, reminding me of how much I did not like the CL yet almost always grab my SL2 with TL lenses when heading out.
If you use the CL to its strengths, as an easily portable walk-around photo camera, it is still a great camera in my opinion and still does a lot very well. I really love it paired with TL 35mm f1.4 lens. With the TL 18mm or 23mm lenses it is almost pocketable and direct competition to the Ricoh GRIII or Fuji X100V. It's fun to use with manual M-glass, from Leica, Voigtlander or Zeiss. I was never sold on Leica's standard TL zoom, but do enjoy the new Sigma 18-50mm f2.8 with it which is a budget option. And more Sigma APC-lenses have come out, which are compelling options, less pricy than Leica's. Hence for a lightweight every day carry camera, it's still a great choice. If you fancy a 'can do it all'-hybrid, it is really the wrong choice, but that was already the case at the time of its release. I am keeping mine and enjoy some more years of use out of it.
This year I will be shooting primarily my Q2M with I think I love. But, I also wanted a small color camera around too, so I just got a nice used CL and am pairing it with the TL Lux 35 1.4. They both make me smile :) They also make me want to take pictures, which is the idea, no? Thanks for the lovely essay Hugh. You always end up seeing the quality in photo life.
Nice combo! Enjoy!
Sept 2024 I bought a CL ( I have a Z8 for full frame)
Any thoughts on the newer PIXII 26mp camera ?
Maybe tech has evolved enough to stuff a full frame sensor in the CL Body. An affordable option to put M lenses on and have EVF in compact package.
Just wondering/dreaming?
A Leica CL/Lumix L mount hybrid with weather sealing and IBIS sounds very very tempting. We can only dream.
Love my CL, yeah it’s not going away
I’d love Leica to make native X mount glass. Exit the camera game in all
but full frame and make glass for APSC and M43. Focus on SL, M, and Q lines. I think there is definitely a gap in the market for premium APSC 3rd party glass. I’m hoping that Sigma start releasing some APSC DGDN glass, but I’m sure people would love Leica glass for their APSC cameras, especially considering it looks like APSC might be about to have a revival.
I like how he pauses when talk, thinking before talking. Instead of cropping that pauses.
The CL is a beautiful little camera! However, at my ol' age late last year I had a crisis. I wanted to streamline my digital camera gear to the bare bone minimum, with the intent of becoming very skillful with the camera I decided to get. Note, this did not include the collection of my film cameras. And so, after much thought and consideration I traded in my gear, which included the CL for the robust SL2-S which has met my needs in the southwest; to include, photographing the coming monsoons and all things outdoors come rain or shine, hot and cold. Having said that though, I did keep my 'Sunday go meeting' digital camera, the Leica M240.
I think I understand why Leica exited the APS-C market. But Leica‘s APS-C system still makes total sense to me. I‘ll keep using my CL, and I don‘t even throw away my old T. And that‘s after trying the M10, M10M and Q2. And several Sony cameras.
Intriguing video. I can't help but wonder how DJI joining the the l-mount alliance might play into the L2 initiative.
Me too!
Great video, for a first time Leica purchase, which Leica would you suggest, CL or TL, or something else?
Clearly, I preferred CL. If the industrial design and heritage are your two primary considerations, I’d look for a bargain used. But for pure performance, the LUMIX S5 is a significantly more capable platform, and it uses the same mount.
I admit I'm spoiled. Not rich, but spoiled. I've been shooting the Leica Q since December of 2015 and added the CL in 2019. It's a great combination. Just a few months ago I bit the bullet, selling my Nikon Z gear to get an SL2. No regrets, by the way. However, my plan also included selling the CL because I can get really fine 20 MP files with my CL (TL) lenses on the SL2 (as opposed to 24 on the CL), but I just can't do it. I just can't sell that CL.
No other APSC camera gives the colors CL does. I couldnt care less about image stabilization. I reject image stabilized Sony photos when it comes with Sony colors. The TL 35mm f1.4 lens is far superior to any Sony lenses. Paired with the M 50mm Summilux, the pictures it give are similar to a SL with a 50 noctilux. I really like the CL. I would certainly purchase a FP with a mechanical shutter and a CL body and EVF. FP.. is unusable under artificial light due to the banding problems.
If the CL had a 42MP sensor, would it destroy the Q? And if the Q had interchangeable lenses, would it destroy the M? And if you have a SL2, do you still need an S ? Sometimes I really don't get Leica. Beside that I've been working with the CL for 4 years now, and I think it's a great camera. Perfect built quality, easy to handle, good picture quality, etc..
I'm not carrying 20lb of gear and..it's quite affordable for a Leica! Perhaps Fuji or Panasonic can provide a similar camera for less money, but you simply want the Leica!
The only thing I don't like is the max shutter speed of 30sec, and no Bulb.
My dream Leica camera would be a CL with 36 or 42 MP, up to 4 min shutter speed and B, and without all the video stuff...just a real photo camera.
I understand. 😊
Brand new here to learning about w and how they work and crafting, I am switching to leica any time now, first need the budget! But which one is a better option? TL2 or CL for portraits and fashion photography?
I chose the CL because I felt the built-in EVF was better than the Typ 020 Visoflex
I purchased a CL a few months ago and yes, It's still a monster of a camera.
Enjoy!
Currently awaiting the arrival of my 1st child in less than 6 weeks (yes nervous, yes excited, yes all the emotions that come with being an expectant father) and I’m pondering between a lovely condition used Leica Q and a lovely condition Leica CL for about the same money once I factor in a lens. Do you have any suggestions or preferences? I’ve used Fuji (not for me), I’ve used Sony (no soul) and I previously had an SL2-s but sold it when we found out we were expecting to fund a more family friendly car (and I miss it every day 😅)
Depends on what field of view(s) matter most to you; whether or not you want interchangeable lenses; and how much depreciation matters to you. PS: CONGRATS!
We don’t need more crop sensors from Panasonic. We need a Z5 competitor with good auto focus. L-mount has amazing glass but no way to use it in an affordable fashion.
@ 1:30 into video…..lmao Hugh!!!!!!! As always your vids are top notch sir…….. THANK YOU for ALL your efforts!!! 👍👍👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏😃😃😃📸❤️
I love my cl that you recommended to me several years ago. The 35 1.4 is incredible glass and seldom comes off. I am curious… the black and white photos you posted, did you convert from raw, or do you ever use Leila’s bw jpegs?
Usually convert from RAW give how big our prints are these days (hold that thought).
Looking for a new camera because my huge and heavy Canon L lenses always slept in the closet, I touched many cameras X100V, XT4, GFX50S II (amazing but too big), OM-1 and I did what I should not : go to a Leica store and try a Q2 Monochrom. It immediatly felt right, nothing more to say… but the price… for a complete beginner…
I wanted full frame of course, I started to look at the pre-owned market, was near to push the trigger for a used M10 because viewfinder is fun. But so much money for an old sensor was a little bit frustrating, Q2 fixed lens is also frustrating because I prefer 50mm and more… I missed a good deal for a pre owned SL2S (even if a little bit too big).
I started to felt in love with the M11 but the price… and maybe I would love a M11 with an EVF (shame on me I know). Or at least a Q3 with interchangeable lenses (not anymore a Q maybe) ?
And suddenly I look at the CL and realised that full frame would be the only compromised to accept… but Leica decided to leave the APSC market.
But I found a good deal for a pre owned CL. No way to buy APSC lens so I bought a sigma 45mm f2.8 with the aperture ring to be as near as possible to the M experience… I bought a Rock n Roll mamba strap and man… it works !!! It’s amazing !
In fact, I did only one mistake I have to fix : buy an M adapter and put old M lenses on it :)
Well built, simple to use, ability to configure most of the button and don’t use half of them most of the time…
Is it worth it, yes for me because simplicity, built quality and wearing this camera is a pleasure, so I grab it with me…
Will I keep it ? Will see but if an M with ab integrated EVF or a Q3 with interchangeable leans appears… not sure… but it will hit hard the bank account :)
Love your channel, Hugh and pictures also !!! Very inspirational
I got my CL in May 2018. Some of the reasons, I sell it. Nowadays, I still miss my CL. However, I sold my Fuji gfx and buy the Leica M11
Have fun with it!
How reliable is the White-Balance on the M11?, and is there a shutter-lag?
Great vid. Thing is it is all about preference, bias and a bit of so called magic everybody wants in life.
It is like playing a Gibson or Fender guitar (as opposed to an Ibanez or Yamaha). Many people like to be 'sucked' into that magic because it gives them a sense of importance.
"Look at me! I shoot Leica, Hasselblad"..
So many friends of the CL here. Add me to the list.
Exactly! (after watching the intro)
What would Cariter-Bresson be using today? Would it be a CL? Or would it rather be a X-E4 or a GR III...or, zut zut alors, an iPhone?
I still say: iPhone, but what do I know?
@@3BMEP That's my guess also. I do have high regard for the GR cameras. They are very Bressonesque.
Isn't it true that Cariter-Bresson didn't like any perspective distortion which is why he was married to the 50mm?
Maybe a Fuji with the $200 35mm XC lens or, yeah, the iPhone with the "portrait" focal lens.
@@mvonwalter6927 I think you're right; I didn't mean to say he'd embrace an ultra wide esthetic. I tend to think he'd be using a Ricoh GR III.
Hugh, "I can't bring myself to sell my CL"!!! Ditto. Even with all those "better" cameras you mentioned, there is a combination of size, weight, quality and aesthetics that are compelling. Going on a long hike with the CL is a pleasure. No other similar sized system is smaller/lighter. Fuji does not even come close given its ever increasing sized glass. If you want small size, light weight, great image quality - the CL is, at least to me, the complete system. In fact, if the CL does break, just substitute the SL2 and you can keep using the same small, light, high quality glass and the complete system is still lighter, smaller than the comparable Fuji offering. Terrific video, as usual.
🙏🏻😊🖖🏻
Don’t sell your CL!! I sold mine and miss it so I am buying it again. Don’t be me! LOL
Lumix S9 seems interesting.
Only got 5mins into this when a courier interrupted bringing my new silver Leica TL2 ,Summicron-TL 23mm f/2 ASPH lens & a (Typ 020) EVF . I have always regretted selling my TL2 start of lockdown. I still have the half case, red rope strap and L mount adapters for my Nikon and M mount lenses. How lucky was I to buy a barely used mint condition one for less money than I sold my old one? Watching this to remind me of the Leica buzz. Excuse me, must get back to watching the end of this - winks
Enjoy!!
P.S. Threw down this challenge to Leica on Twitter - Hoi Leica, a challenge!!! Owned X113,T,TL2 & sold them last year because no APSc (I get it) but, now missing them. T was the most radical design in history & love the interface. So, why no Full Frame TL3; I'd buy one. If Sony can do the A7c then you can. - Now remembering how to set my new TL2 up; Version 5 has nested folders, dont think that was an improvement; loved the simplicity of the original T interface. New one comes with a black Leica leather strap but, prefer my red rope strap. It wont supplant my Sony A7ii, A6500, A6000 or Nikon D610 but, it will be a nice nostalgia trip now and then regardless. Exciting times ;-)
Yet! Here I am awaiting delivery of an Olympus EM1 mkIII and 12-40 f2.8 despite owning 2 Nikon D850 and an XT2 & XH1. APSC? Too big! Watch this space. Will retirement finally reveal which system really delivers what counts?
If Leica were to look at the popularity of their camera models over the last few years, they would drop the CL line and come up with an interchangeable lens Q!
Now I'm on holiday in Italy. I have leica MD (without screen) with various optics. And I have TL2 with 11-23 / 35 / 55-135. I take my TL2 out again and again. Where can I find such a compact 70-200 mm so light and in such good quantity. Shit at leica has dropped CL2. If I like we have an M11 - yes yes - but I do not buy it. The difference is too small for my use. The price is too high. SL is way too big. So right now I do not think there is that much future for me in Leica? Brown what do I do?
I may use what I have but would like to upgrade to more MP and better AF
She refused to give it back … 😅
I went with the Q2 for my daily carry camera, but I'm still disappointed to see Leica ditch the CL. It's a great little camera and a more affordable entry point into the Leicaverse than either the Q2 or M cameras. It's a shame to see the CL go...
Love your commentary .....
The long anticipated return to the CL!
In my opinion the question if a camera is still worthy at any given time has to do with another question: do you really need a new camera? I know many people who upgrades for upgrade’s sake or because of G.A.S. For me, for example, the only reasons to replace my (not so old) Canon APS-C DSLR would be: a) in case of damage. a) for upgrade purposes, and in this case I would go to FF for certain. But for more megapixels or IBIS… no!
For the CL itself, I have my reservations. Even though I am shooting with APSC cameras for a decade and I love the format, i think Leica is all about Full Frame. I mean, if I had to pay that much, I would prefer the full Leica experience. As you said in the video, especially now, there are much better APSC cameras out there for half the price. Now, for a CL owner the things are a bit different. If you choose to go for a newer APSC camera you loose the Leica glass (for me that’s most important) and while the others has improved lately, the difference in quality is still there.
I also have one question for you Hugh: I noticed that you wish for a 40 megapixel apsc sensor. But what’s the use for it? Even a 32 megapixel APSC is more pixel dense than a FF equivalent and you can crop physically by using a FF lens. To the contrary, by increasing the megapixel count you gonna loose in light gathering ability. Or maybe I am missing something here…🤔
It’s a function of what and how I shoot: for urban landscape, I like to travel light, preferring a higher resolution sensor to longer glass (all else being equal). The lack of weight is obvious, but so, actually, is my desire to capture the full richness and nuance, edge to edge, of a city’s shapes and textures. This is why I love my M11. In low light, I remain at low ISO - and brace the camera. For very low light, I use a lightweight tripod.
I love my CL and those wonderful lenses! It's been my every day carry for years, and I can't see that changing anytime soon. I really hope Leica changes their minds on this. Hearing the news made me want to buy a second one before they go up in price on the used market :-)
Too bad they killed the CL I was looking to buy one this year but not anymore
We just need Sony to release a high performing compact 23mm f2 and 18mm f2 already. Been waiting almost 10 years. It's ridiculous considering how many APS-C bodies they've released.
I could see the CL becoming a FF body to take advantage of the FF sensors that Leica buys anyways. At some point Leica will need to address the the dual mount ecosystem they have created, L and M, and find a better way of users cohabitating that investment rather than sticking an M lens on a large SLR shaped body. The next SL is on track to become a 60MP body and I am sure Leica posses a lot of 24MP M10 sensors they could downcycle into the existing CL shell and mount. The economics don't require APS-C and M's continue to get astronomically expensive to build. EVF camera is already much cheaper and few would come close to an EV rangefinder style body in FF (Sony A7C).
Interesting idea!
Leica Rumors announced CL line is discontinued
Any auto-focus, mirrorless ILC system without IBIS today is doomed.
I would have considered an IBIS CL2 over any SL. The SL bodies are too big and clumsy for me.
I understand.
I will always prefer a body with no IBIS. For me image quality and user experience is far more imprtantant than convenience. Same goes for PDAF.
That was a good year ago and .....your wishes were mines.....but it didn't happen.....at least until now !
Superiority perhaps is not the word. Be a straight photographer and impose yourself technical boundaries rather relying on the latest gimmick. this is what I tell myself when I see my friends their new Kalo wonders...
The CL is cool, but man the Pixii Rangefinder...
I understand the interest. I reached out to them, but they weren't ready to get an eval unit to me.
@@3BMEP I think their issue is that each unit is made to order by hand, so they would need to be certain they could sell the evaluation unit. I'm very, very tempted to pull the trigger. It would be a really nice complement to my Sigma FP-L.
Cameras come and go and so do Leica employees. I’m sure the CL will be back inn the future and meanwhile could the current version become a collectors camera or sought after by photographer who don’t want all the bells and whistles and just want to go out there and take pictures like you and Claudia did, I wouldn’t sell it if I was you. 😊
We aren’t. 😊👍🏻
I wonder whether Leica will introduce a new entry-level to their line-up, and what it would be. With the CL out of their line-up, their current entry level starts at USD 5,000 and upwards for a body only which is a very high barrier to entry for most as it basically starts with an USD 8,000 kit. And at that price point, they have some very strong and capable competitors! Fuji GFX100s? Sony A1? Canon R5 and R3? etc.
My father bought a mechanical Leica in the late 60's.... still works! Once the sensor or electronics become uneconomic to repair after 10/15 years your $10,000 'modern' Leica becomes a paperweight. So no modern Lieica aren't worth it.
Great video 👌 I’ve heard Fujifilm will start using Samsung sensors in Fuji cameras very soon as Samsungs sensors are able to gather more light on apsc than full frame camera sensors and it’s interesting news
This is just a leica advertisment
If Leica had come out with a IBIS CL I would still have one. The lack of IBIS got be to buy a SL2-S and move my Sigma L mount lens over to it. It’s been sitting on my shelf as other IBIS equipped cameras have come in. I currently use my Nikon Z7II the most for the types of photography I do. I just sold the CL and its Vario-Elmar 18-56 and used the money to pre-order the Canon R7. The R7 is to try out the higher end autofocus for when I want to shoot birds and wildlife. I will miss the ease of use the CL had that I found even better then the SL2-S.
I understand completely!