I bought the CL, 18-56, 11-23, 23, and 55-135 and i love the camera. The size makes it a terrific travel camera and it's about as straightforward to operate as a camera can be. I also own a D750 Nikon (which was my travel camera) and the CL holds its own very well in IQ compared to it. I used the setup on a trip to Rome recently and was extremely pleased with the results. I did not buy the 35mm Summilux because the 50mm focal length has never been my favorite. Based on your review I may buy one. I also bought a quality leather half case and it adds greatly to the hold-ability (word?) of the camera. I disagree about the 18-56mm not being sharp or contrasty - in my images it's the match of the 23mm. Also, the 11-23 is a spectacularly good lens. My only complaint is that, in this day and age, the camera really should have sensor shake to remove dust. Perhaps some minor weather sealing. Anyway, loved the review. Getting into the CL is, like any Leica, quite an investment, but I think it's the best value in the Leica line and arguably their most usable camera.
Hi Chuck thanks for watching. You have a great setup with your CL. Yes try the 35, it really is impressive. I found for Europe I was really happy with the 23 for the most part due to the focal length, but that 35 is special. For me at least the copy of the 18-56 wasn’t as good as the 23 I had, but have heard good things about the 11-23. Yes there should be something to help with sensor dust. Perhaps with a CL2 in the future? I found it also to be a very usable camera especially for traveling.
Thanks for this review. I own a TL2 and the more I use it and the more the sensor blows my mind. The advantage of the CL is its integrated EVF . Very important if you plan to shoot with remote flash studio... as the EVF on the TL2 uses the hot shoe... Honestly, I’m planning on purchasing one CL soon for this reason only.
I've been the CL with the 18-56 vario. Despite your reservations I think the lens it great. So much so that I'm going to add the 55-135 very soon. While shooting with primes is great, carrying around a bag of prime lens and changing them the go while doing walking tours is a total pain. And one should not forget that that bag of primes just ain't cheap.
Thanks for watching. Yes zooms are definitely easier to carry around especially for travel. I feel that Leica could make faster zoom lenses for the CL that would be more usable in low light as well as daytime shots. Also I find the IQ in their primes a bit better. But yes carrying some expensive primes does make traveling more uneasy :)
I have both the CL and TL2 and almost the full set of TL lenses. My goto setup for travelling. Light enough to carry two bodies to reduce lens change. One big difference between CL and TL2 is CL has the option to cancel the exposure preview for "M" setting. This allows you to see what you are looking at in a dimly lit room when using a flash with low ISO. Guess not many Leica users like to use flash. I love to use the TL2 with the visoflex on a vintage German made Susis tripod (extended to 1.1meter hight but only 450g) to do cityscape at night. Looking down the viewfinder is far more comfortable than kneeling down to compose with the horizontal viewfinder or LCD screen. I first thought the GPS on the Visoflex is gimmicky but found it quite useful to see where I took the photos. Tried the CL hand grip but found it very uncomfortable and impractical (completely blocks access to sd card and battery) so returned it. Love the TL system so much that I just bought another TL system camera; the original T. The latest firmware (v1.9) making it almost as useful as the TL2 but at a fiction of the cost second hand.
I bought the CL nearly 2 years ago. Nothing to complain about on the image quality. Clever controls on a minimalist design, highly portable and even looks great like an accessory when you slap on the half leather cover the salesman convinced me to buy. I’ve since added 2 Sigma lenses to the elmarit lens that came with it. It makes for a great travel camera but you need to bring extra batteries. The battery is the weakest link.
Got the original T for 399 Euro in good shape from a professional dealer with warranty. Turned my Sony 6300 and a Voigtländer lens in to pay for the 23 mm Summicron. In the end, I paid just 500 Euro and have a real Leica with a wonderful Summicron, and love the combination. Btw, the T got mixed reviews when it came out, but Leica fixed the firmware with several updates. As a travel companion and for daily use, it's fast enough.
My CL arrived today, just wanted you to know that part of my 'comfort purchase zone' was based on this video. Upped the firmware to 4.0 immediately, and am trying some of my SL lenses with it. Came with the 18 Elemarit-TL and I like it - tried some of my SL lenses, they're working fine. Time to shop for some equivalent of the 24-90/105 zone for it.
Thank you for your review, very well done! I do have the same difficulties that you experienced on manual focusing M lenses (35 Cron and 50 Lux). My M lenses do not have any calibration problem (they work perfectly on my MM1 and M10 bodies) but I just get much less keepers shooting them with the CL vs. other Leica "classic" RF bodies. The only TL lens I have is the Cron 23 and that one works like a charm on the CL. Just my 2 cents...
I have my CL for almost a year now, and still awaiting for the Leica 11-23mm lens available. This lens has been out of stock for a very very long time and I wonder when Leica will start making this lens again.
I bought the CL in December and I love it. It was my first foray into the world of Leica. I’ve been using it with a Voigtlander 35/1.7 and 40/1.2 (which is currently my favorite). I just got the summicron 23/2 and I’m just now starting to shoot with it. The CL was a great purchase. I keep wondering though what would I gain if I were to get the full frame body m10, specifically the m10-p.
Thanks for watching. There are a couple things you will get and some things you won’t get. Added benefits of the M10/P are full size sensor which means the lenses you purchased you don’t need to take into consideration the focal length change. Also better build quality. The CL is a well built camera, but to me it’s not in the same league as the M10. Larger size can be a benefit of disadvantage depending on your needs especially if you want to add larger lenses down the road. Cons to getting the M10/P would be the Optical viewfinder. For some they love it and it is the DNA of the M series, but depending on your skill level and eyesight, it can be more difficult. Of course you can purchase and external EVF and use live focus on the display but, that means extra costs and a different way of shooting. Lack of autofocus lens is something you can consider as well. Seems like you prefer manual focus lenses, but if you ever want to use the native lenses from the L lineup you won’t be able to on the M. Perhaps if you purchased your CL through a Leica store you could ask to loan and M10 body for a couple days and see how it feels to you? That might give you a better handle on which camera is right for you. Btw speaking of Voigtländer, we will have a video out this weekend talking about the 50 1.2 and 35 f2 lenses. Should be interesting.
Just got a CL and currently using it with M lenses .Same problem .Try as I might can`t nail focus . I have had no problem manual focusing M lenses on two Sony bodies but with the CL it`s an issue .Maybe it`s because it only has contrast detect .
@@TECH360TV Thanks for that ,appreciate it .I`m pretty good at the focus peaking game so I did wonder . Just ordered a 23 ... so see how I go .Thanks again .
Definitely get that additional grip, it greatly improves handling and is worth the extra bucks. If you want to take ergonomics an additional step further, include a thumb-grip. Thumbs Up make a 'handy' grip that is far less expensive than the model Leica offers.
Gonna get the Leica CL soon. But so hard to make my choice between TL 23F2 or TL 35F1.4 Do u recommend me to get the TL 18F2.8? What is ur suggestions yea? Ur help is much appreciate it.
Great review of a great camera. I use mine more than my M and it works like hell with M lenses and even old Nikon AIS lenses. The 35mm Sumicron is great, the same goes for the 18mm and 60mm.
To be honest I rather choose the CL before a classic M simply because it’s smaller... I really wish that they had a 35mm pancake for it though... //freddie
Hi, great review! thanks! HELP NEEDED: I am after a camera for family photos as well some photos in the mountains while tracking or doing back country skiing. I am after the Leica CL, might get the Paul smith design. (or is that way too posh?) That comes with the Elmarit TL 1:2.8/18 mm lens. How do you feel about that lens? What lens shall I buy to enjoy the picks mentioned before (portrait mountains nature travel?) thanks for all the suggestions
Hi! Doesn’t matter what model you get. That’s personal preference. The Paul Smith edition looks fun. As far as the 18mm lens, it’s good but struggles in light. The 23 f2 is a really good lens and the 35 1.4 is a reference lens.
@@TECH360TV thanks for the quick reply. PS is off, for the extra 1000 euro I will get an extra lens. please help me out, there are sets with 18mm or with 18-56mm, one of them I would pick, any extra lens I should go for? budget would be under 6000euro. Thanks again also for the review...saw it 3 times :-)))
Thanks for your enthusiastic review. Can you please advise about lack of IBIS and how best to cope with this. Your sample images seemed not find this a problem. Gerry
What do you mean "reduce the focus peaking to medium or low"? I have the CL and only see that the peaking color can be changed, not the intensity. Maybe I'm missing something. I've also found that peaking works best with longer focal length MF lenses. With wider lenses (I have the Voigtlander 15mm Super Wide Heliar f4.5 for a 22 or 23mm FF equiv.) it is better to use the magnification or just eyeball it. Good review!
Thanks for watching. I understand your confusion, what I was referring to was the strength of the focus peaking, from everything bright red for example to somewhat red to barely and red. Thanks for the tip on the longer focal lengths. If I get the CL again will try one of those out
Very first impression (opened the box and stated shooting inside) is that compared to the M 240 and the Q, the smaller and lighter CL does not seem as easy to use in manual focus mode with the M lenses I tried... I think the heavier M makes my grip steadier so my shots aren't blurred.. This is of course not the fault of the camera but my lack of practice with it I guess.. Anyway, I'm heading out to shoot with it. I'm taking the 18mm kit lens as well as a 35mm f2.8 Zeiss M mount lens with a cheap Fotasy adapter I bough. I'll post my experience later. BTW, I bought the CL for it's small and lighter form as well as the AF capability and the other features that it has as a more automatic camera than the M. Lest see how it turns out....
@@TECH360TV Got back today from a long walk shooting along the streets of Midtown and Downtown Atlanta. Yesterday I also walked over 20K steps Through Piedmont Park and alone the Belt Line in Atlanta and tried to capture many images. The take away is that the 18mm f2.8 kit lens does a very good job producing nice images and the AF works very well. Trying to shoot with M mount lenses proved challenging because although I could focus well, the slow shutter speeds the camera chose to use caused blurred images. I find it difficult to figure out how to select the shutter speed to give me at least a 1/30 speed. I've no idea how to use those little wheels and buttons. I miss the simplicity of the M240.. Also, it's disconcerting to find that I'm always hitting the little wheel near my hand while I hold the camera. Of course, I don't thing it's doing anything so it probably makes no difference. I'm not like most photographers who review these cameras. I don't really want too many options, adjustments and programs. I really don't want menus within menus within menus. I am all about looking through a viewfinder and capturing the light. I just want to set the shutter speed, aperture, ISO and shoot.... Saturday I used in addition to the kit lens, a 30mm f2.8 Zeiss lens and a 90mm f2.8 Konica with mixed results. Today I took a 40mm f1.2 Voigtlander, and a 35mm f2 Summicron along with the kit lens. Both M lenses are quite good and I think I did better today than yesterday. I think the 35 Cron might have the edge over the Voigtlander. I'll try my 50mm f1.4 Summilux some time this week and perhaps the Elmarit 28 - f2.8. I've got to figure out how to set up this camera.....
Yes it takes a while to dial in the settings. The dials can be somewhat customised. Also don’t forget the buttons in the middle of the dials. This helps get you to your settings quicker
Just got my Leica CL Paul Smith Edition and love it so much, and the Leica Store has a 40% off discount on the TL 35mm f1.4 ,just wondering the focus speed of this lens, is it equal to the speed of 18/2.8?
Wow congrats!! I think the Paul Smith Edition looks much better in person! The 35 at 40%?? Your store must really like you 😊 Focusing is fine. Just enjoy the images. That is a reference lens.
Hi , I very much like your delivery. Engaging and interesting. And I trust your views. I have a dilemma. Love the 35mm focal length almost 100% of the time. That focal length lens is likely to remain on the camera all of the time. So I wonder whether to buy the Leica CL and 23mm F2 summicron or Sony A7R iii and Zeiss / Sony 35mm F2.8. I know its APS vs FF however something keeps telling me "Get the Leica, enjoys its purity, enjoy the clours" - What think you Sir ?
@@TECH360TV Thank you for your reply however which in your opionion gives the best image quality assumming I don't wish to print larger than 18" X 12" - I put lots of emphasis on micro contrast and colours etc - Thanks very much.
Nice video. I had the same issues focusing M lenses on a Sony A6500. They need to offer a more precise method. Pity, because these APSC with M lenses is a killer combo in so many ways.
For my experience it was the Lens, but haven’t tried the combo you have. Adapting lenses is always a hit and miss. Having said that I’ve been a fan of techart adapters especially using M lenses on Sony Alpha series cameras.
Thanks :) I've heard that you can magnify the image in lieu of peaking - do you have any impressions of that? I was very interested in the Leica T (Typ 701) for M lenses, but it sounded like it would be disappointing for that purpose. The CL looks so messy, I don't get it. I'd love a TL3 with an EVF!!!!!!! Now that Sigma is on board with the L Mount Alliance I'll definitely be getting one eventually. Please cover some more L mount things :)
Fellow Citizen yes you can and it works well. Actually the M lenses work well on it but I just had a demo lens that needed calibration. Between the CL and TL2 I prefer the CL for the classic look.
Great Review, I have a CL and thought everything that you said was spot on. I love mine, I have the 23 and the kit zoom, I really fancy an M lens but can't justify the ££ just yet.... In the meantime my Dad gave me an old Contax Zeiss T* lens 50mm 1.2 to play with. I then got a Novoflex adaptor and Its a great combination, creamy images with lovely bokeh. You are absolutely right though, the beauty of the CL is its versatility, whilst retaining the Leica heritage. I love mine. Keep up the good work!!
If they manage to pack an M into a body exactly like the CL (evf or hybrid included) I will buy that camera don’t care how much it costs. I really love how the CL looks and feels like. It is gorgeous! It looks like the first Leicas and it encloses more of the leica philosophy than the current M. It is much more discreet, light, packable and better for street photography and that was the origin of Leica. It just lacks of the M image quality. Images haven’t that unique Leica look like the M. So...that would be my greatest wish, a full frame CL with an M mount, or an M in a CL body.
My cl reaplaced my M for daily shooting. The image quality is about 80-90% as good as the M10 but the evf is awesome and the whole kit with the 18mm is feather light. Awesome setup.
Hi. It depends on your shooting style. If you just want one lens and that’s it go with the Q. If you want the versatility of changing lenses then the CL
The Q has a little better image quality and the lens is very important at that point. It is gorgeous. It also has the macro function, wich is great to have, and the evf is also a bit better (or this is my impression) and works perfect together with the lens. BUT... in the other hand, the CL is, in my opinion, the most beautiful camera on the market right now, stylish, perfect size, also great image quality, the buttons display is fantastic AND...here it comes...you can use M glass on it! This is for me the big point; M glas means image quality but also tiny size and the best balance between size and quality. I found myself always taking the CL with me with a tiny 21mm M lens and quite often with even 2 other M lenses (50mm and 90mm) in a very small bag while the Q stayed every time at home because of a bigger size and heavier body. There is not a big difference but enough to choose the more versatile set. So I ended up selling my Q praying that Leica some day comes up with a mixture of both: an M with an evf or hybrid vf and the size of an M3. Of course, I made this because I don’t care manual focusing. If you think you’re gonna mount the much bigger L lenses most of the time, because of the AF, then I think you should go for the Q. By the way, if you choose CL+M lenses, take into account that you will have to spend extra 400 bucks for the adapter ring, wich I find ridiculous but is the only way you can mount that glass on it.
You also have the option of using third party adapters that are less expensive. I agree the CL +M lenses do offer more versatility. However and this is after speaking to Leica, the T lenses have just as good optics in them.
My following thoughts are solely based on reading reviews and watching bloggers telling me all kinds of things about APS-C/FF sensors, theirs lenses and so on. Leaving aside camera bodies finishes, ergonomics and specs on EVFs,, menus, etc., this is what I think about how to yield an optimal IQ result from any APS-C sensor camera: use a lens engineered for FF sensors! Why? Well, it is an universal fact that ALL lenses, regardless their focus length, are curved made. As a result, the light rays passing through the outer surface of the lens tend to bend, thus deteriorate, the captured image on the flat sensor, compared to the rays passing through the central area of the lens, less curved. The farther from the real world imagery produced by a lens the more occurrence of "aberrations". Optical aberrations occur when points in the image do not translate back onto single points after passing through the lens - causing image blurring, reduced contrast or misalignment of colors (chromatic aberration). Lenses may also suffer from uneven, radially decreasing image brightness (vignetting) or distortion. Also, the wider the focal length, the more susceptible to aberrations. To minimize such inevitable events under the law of optical physics, camera manufacturers developed a number of optical counter-measures by adding ingenuous and costly engineering solutions via complex computerized experiments. Yet, none of them has, so far, zeroed the threshold balance between the real world imagery and its transportation onto digital photography sensors. Some have come close and cost a fortune. How about, then, through a simple and also ingenuous economic trick, to achieve the same similar results yielded through the above costly laboratory processes? Mount a lens meant for a full frame sensor onto a smaller one, such the APS-C. By doing this, the APS-C sensor will capture the light rays coming from the less curved surface of the FF lens, its central area, leaving out all those annoying bent rays susceptible to cause the above mentioned aberrations. This same thoughtful exercise of pure ancient Greek syllogism could be applied on the correlation between large to medium, medium to full frame and APS-C to Micro 4/3 formats. As I said in my opening remarks, all of the above is just an empirical theoretical logic exercise. Therefore, in the real world of real photographers like you, I may be completely off the track from sanity thinking. If that is the case, sorry for wasting your time.
Leica need to release the Q with a Summilux zoom like the D-lux. I appreciate you can crop, especially with the Q2 but it's not quite the same concept. I love the D-Lux Summilux and really would like the equivalent on the Q. Leica please ?
Yes the digital zoom they introduced doesn’t really give much in terms of functionality. I don’t think they will release a different lens to the Q. If you want that choice then they will push you to their cameras
@@TECH360TV I agree. Leica aren't stupid and they know if they released the Q with a great zoom lens it would kill some of their other lines. I'll stick to my D-Lux thanks. BTW you're a great presenter and have a wonderfully genuine and relaxed approach (and I've worked with hundreds of professionals). Keep up the good work.
Interesting. This is the only useability review of the TL system I have seen; reading the spec sheet would impart more information than the other reviews i have seen. I chose the TL2 because it seems a more serious camera; it has USB charging and a tilting EVF which matches it to my Panasonic GX9 (MFT lenses are good and cheap and nobody can afford many Leica lenses); I very rarely look through a straight viewfinder now (a habit I picked up with my Leica X113 with tilting Visoflex, and that is now a box that must be ticked on my purchasing list). I get the feeling the TL2 is a mini-SL, more of a film back really, rather than a M (I inherited an M3 and never warmed to it; I was always a Rollei girl, first love, then Nikon until digital. Alas I hate Nikon digital). Yes adapted lenses are a disappointment, I adapted my Nikkor D primes and if you nail it the images are great but, mostly you dont and you have to focus mostly open to reduce the focussing field, which is a drag. I feel the CL is just an X camera with interchangeable lenses and I would rather have my X113. Intersting that you didnt think the zoom popped; I found the opposite but my guess is you were using it wide open and I take panaramic street shots and am mostly using it at the hyperfocal sweet spot, and there it sings like no other zoom I have ever used. However, its slow so a Summer tool only; it has sat in a drawer all winter. Yes I mostly use the 23mm Summicron. So far I dont like it as much us the X113 23mm f1.7 macro Summilux but its early days. Will I end up loving these TL cameras; I really dont know yet. I get disappointed with a day's shoot and then I get a fantastic image and think, Oh Yes!!! I can rely on my GX9 with an olympus 17mm f1.8 to always get the shot; with the Leica I wont know till I load it in post; as like as not the highlights are burnt out and the jpgs suck badly, I have to load raw which means loading into DarkTable my raw loader before final processing; an extra step and an extra chore in my workflow. I think these cameras will get better; its the start of something rather than the finished deal. If I buy the 35mm Summilux then I will have commited but that is clearly a way off; right now my GX9 and D700 rule the camera drawer. Have fun ;-)
Thanks Vici for your post. Really appreciate a good discussion. The TL2 definitely has its charm. Now that you mention it it does have a bit of that SL feel to it minus the UI. The CL is essentially to me a mini - M with some of its quirks and successes. Yes the zoom for me wasn’t a stand out but you are right, I shot more wide angle especially in European streets where the narrow lanes pushed me to shoot that way. The 23 is a good lens and surprised me in many ways, but yes there were times I missed shots. Autofocus is good but if i was to compare to other cameras it does have its faults in terms of speed and nailing focus at times, but because I come from shooting a film MP, I’m okay with it. I’m sure over time the lenses and cameras will improve but if we always wait for the next best thing, we always will wait :) Btw big fan of Rollei. Always wanted one and maybe one day I’ll get one, but for now I admire from a distance.
Well my father was a Photographer hence my Leica IIIg and M3; his runaround working cameras, he would always shoot weddings on a 5x4 Kalart. So growing up in the 50s and 60s I learnt on his Rolleiflex TLR and the seed had been sown. When money appeared in my account after college in 73 he of course wanted me to buy Leica but, of course as Picasso said, you have to kill your father. I bought a gorgeous black Rollei SL35 and some seriously good Zeiss primes. The 80s added a Rollei 35s with a Zeiss 40mm f2.8 Sonor. Really that set the bar high. 1990 I switched to Nikon FM2n with my usual collection of primes and that saw me good up till digital hit a few years ago. Father gets the last laugh, he will be rolling about up there on his cloud, I bought the Leica X113 and that was the end of Nikon. I have seriously high hopes for the TL range so I will persevere. I dont think manual lenses will cut it though. I must get on top of the exposure and white balance problems as the metering is a bit flakey; something you mentioned in your TL2 review i remember. But I am now definitely addicted to the Leica image quality and signiture and it has changed my photography for ever; my images have spread out to XPAN Panaramic format for complex street scenes and i am lost for ever; no way back now ;-)
Bobby, I you're spot on with your take on the Leica CL. I'm shooting with the Leica SL mostly, then juggle my Leica-T & CL, every time the CL continues to bring the fun in just shooting life! @isaiahphotons will depict what I'm taking about. The 18mm 2.8 is neat too, but you're right about the 23mm 2.0 on many levels. It brings the pro at times out of a small, simple, clever little APS-C with the Leica color science, period! Let's collaborate one of these days!
Thanks. Really depends on your shooting style. If you only want one lens then the Q is the easier choice. If you want to build out your system the CL will be better
I love the cl, switched from fuji xpro2. After 3 month I am still struggling with the dials. The menu is much better than the fuji. Its a keeper! Important point is also the L Mount alliance! Much more great Lens options are coming up
How do you compare the IQ from CL sensor with the Xtrans? I want to sell my xt2 because Im tired and bored of Fuji after 3 years and I'm looking for a new camera! Thank you!!
@@unoquehacefotos I didnt notice any difference when it comes to IQ... around the same. Whats more important is the quality of the lenses. The ratings are not as good as the fuji lenses but I am veneery happy with the Leica glass. Also the 18mm pancake is extremely good
nice review. a x100F user in which I love BUT have the question of "what if" I had a similar camera with a AF fantastic lens line up like the Q2 but with more lens options and I do not prefer a 28mm.... thus the CL and its lens are interesting. Leica make a FF system like the Q and I'll be first in line, mostly because of the lens.......
Thanks for the good review. I'm waiting for the March 6th announcement of the new Q, if indeed it's higher resolution (47mp?) I will be ordering it. That will leave room for cropping.
Thanks for the great video, because of you I purchase this beautiful camera and using it with a Cron 28mm. May I ask you what profile you’re using for your pictures in color? Very nice rendering. Thanks.
Thanks for watching and great lens choice!! I shoot in raw for the most part and grad my photos afterwards. Black and white pics are based off the monochrome setting in the camera.
Focus peaking for M lenses on a Sony A7iii is second to none, and being full-frame, there is no reason to buy this CL, unless you just want the Leica-Standard look of the CL. Yes, it is nice, but if the $3k is important to you, there are better things to do with it. (I am a Leica user with several cameras from 1930s Standard, through early M bodies to M7. .. and always will be.) Thank you for this informative and frank review. It is certainly one I will refer to others.
Have owned both, still have the CL. X-Pro2 was nice but it’s too bulky, especially for street work. Fuji’s film simulations are cool but they can’t beat Leica color science and image quality.
I am about to buy a camera and I am pretty sure it’ll be the Leica CL. Looking for a camera for street photography. I travel a ton for work and go to some pretty cool places. It’s nice and small. Not sure which lens I’ll get- maybe the TL 23 F/2. Once I decide I’m gonna pull the trigger! Thanks for the video.
You really lose a lot of the center sharpness of Full Frame lenses sticking them on APSC cameras. It's only really the corner sharpness that you might notice a slight improvement.
Just returned from a photography expedition to Morocco using the CL instead of my M10. Love, love love it, especially with the Summilux 35m TL f/1.4. I am home now and I am selling my M10 and all my lenses. The image quality, ease of carrying the CL around, auto focus, make it a very special camera. Go to @penhanphoto to see some images
It may have been interesting to see how you got on manually focusing the M lens on an M series body.....was the mid-focus a CL thing, or (no offence) a user thing?
TECH360.TV :-) ...I stopped watching as you wrapped up the end of the video & the title end screens came up.....totally missed your update at the very end! That’s great, at least it solves that mystery. Thank you.
I don’t own a Leica, not even used one, however I do have a number of M & L39 lenses now which I use an Sony A7R3, but the Leica cameras do intrigue me somewhat, mainly the M series, but the CL too as it’s been described as almost a mini M. The M appeals due to its full frame sensor. I had an APSc DSLR for a short while when I moved from film to digital, and I didn’t get on with how it effectively changed the view through my existing lenses, so within a few years I had upgraded to a FF DSLR. So I fear I will view the CL in the same way if I got one and wish I’d gone for the M. On the other hand, the EVF on the A7R3 has been a revelation to me, moving to mirrorless after years with SLR’s, it was a concern to me for I switched, which quickly evaporated. I now don’t know if I’d want to go back to an optical finder. And there in lies the rub, the CL now appeals due to its EVF, the M series is now a concern to me that I’d miss EVF, but never having really used a rangefinder that also intrigues me. An M series with a built in EVF maybe the answer, or a FF CL? ......whatever, I bet I’d still have one dilemma or another with it!
Understand. The M with the optical view finder is nice, but low light shooting can be challenging. I prefer EVF and the CL doesn’t disappoint. I hope Leica does come out with an EVF M one day. A full frame CL would basically be that or a Q2.
TECH360.TV ....I’m not interested in the Q2....unless they stuck an M mount on it....fixed lens is a deal breaker for me. When I look at Leicas digital offerings, it feels a bit like a scatter gun approach to me, they have a number of interesting options that are hitting the target, but all seem to just hit the bullseye some how!.... Q2 full frame sensor, EVF, but fixed lens M2 full frame sensor, M mount interchangeable lens mount, but no EVF CL interchangeable mount that can adapt M mount lenses, EVF, but not full frame. .....it kind of feels like the only combo they have not offered is the one that would really appeal to me!
Yes of course. But still usable (maybe with the grip on) and nice feature to have I think... The CL can be a top 2nd body for street for a SL or S1(R) user maybe. And maybe Sigma or Panasonic will make some pretty pancake lenses too. I mean the CL is very attractive for a L mount user I think. 😉
Agreed the CL is great. And it is BETTER than an M simply because it has a great digital viewfinder, and it also has autofocus. Sorry but I got fed up with rangefinder focusing on my M9 - and much prefer the CL. And the viewfinder means you can put whatever lens on you like (within reason) and you SEE WHAT YOU GET! Sorry again but the rangefinder series is too old-fashioned now - using a long focus lens on the M9 is a pain- but on the CL you see exactly what the camera sees. OK the Q would be good... but it is only the one lens!
Thanks for watching. There will always be the purists that love the M for its optical view finder, manual focusing, rich history etc., and rightfully so, but there is a case to make (which you did) that an EVF, that helps with focusing long lens or even faster lens would be welcomed by many. Perhaps Leica will one day make a camera that does those things in an M body and give us the best of both worlds. In the meantime there is the CL :)
Thanks for your comment. Maybe Leica one day ... well, I guess we will have to dream on. They are very clever at marketing and really produce an excess of new models. Note that NOT ONE combines the great features that one would expect = full frame + autofocus + digital v/finder. So compromise is necessary.... If they brought out a Q with interchangeable lenses - it would dominate the market surely! And kill off the dated M system... which is why they don't do it! But then there's nothing wrong with the Cl - the only thing "against|" it is that it is not full frame - but with 24 Mpixels (like the Q) what's to worry then ?!!
David Round Actually they have a full frame + autofocus + digital viewfinder, it’s the SL... A beautiful camera. Check Steve Huff, he talks a lot of it and loves the SL with M lenses. Loves it so much he sold his M and keep the SL. Personnaly, I just hoped it was a little bit lighter (and of course the price, but quality and legacy have a cost)... 😉
Not sure what you are referring to. No strange white mist or blown out highlights on the video I saw. There is a style to the photos that might not be to your preference but most of my images aren’t blown out
As of late there have been price reductions or packaged pricing. Leica doesn’t see the CL as a camera that is less than the M or Q, but as a different option.
I want a real Leica, the CL reminds me a basic point and shoot format camera, when you say Leica , the model that comes to mind is the M body....the CL reminds me of a Panasonic LUMIX brand with a red dot... good review otherwise... I would even consider the Vario X...an older model, and yes with a fix mini zoom, can’t afford to carry 2-3 Leica lens on a trip, plus just tooooo expensive for a small point and shoot type of body with the Leica lenses...
It is a real Leica and it’s made in Germany, but I do understand your feelings. Price point I personally feel is too high considering the competition outside and inside Leica’s lineup.
@@TECH360TV Cameras are sold for what they produce, your style may not appeal to certain categories of photographers. This one made me a good impression of the camera th-cam.com/video/V_oxt24fT84/w-d-xo.html
Well that’s why there is TH-cam. No one watches one video only. Steve Huff also edits his photos. I enjoy watching his videos as well. We all have our style, and my style might not appeal to you and that’s okay. No picture is universally liked. No art is as well. We just shoot and edit what we enjoy and embrace the process.
It’s definitely an option when you look at price, specs and technology, but for some Leica means more than those things. There is no right or wrong choice, just what works for the individual.
Why didn’t you address the biggest criticism? Battery life (or lack thereof). Although you addressed it in the original video, one would expect that it would have been covered during your real world review. I hate to think you intentionally left that out in order to simply prop the camera. Photos were stunning and great info about the lenses.
Thanks for watching and asking this. There was nothing intentional about not talking about it. Battery life varies so much depending on the photographer and how they use the camera. Does one use the screen to shoot, does one only use the EVF, does one check every photo or shoot in burst mode all the time, does one shoot a lot of video? There are many variables to this and so I didn’t address it as it wasn’t a glaring fault to the camera for me. I was able to shoot an entire day without issue. For me I shoot stills only and after I’m done getting a shot I turn off the camera. For the size of the camera and the battery size it was fine for me. If it was an issue I would bring it up like how I did for the M10-D review. Btw thanks for the compliment on the photos. Much appreciated. - Bobby
Aubrey Kellum no prob. Our videos here are not a final word but the beginning of a conversation. I love to hear feedback good or bad on others experiences with the camera, our video etc.
nice and well = we know Leica lenses are nice and yes all between $3000-$10.000 so for a normal person the Sigma L mount lenses might have to do - but why has no one on TH-cam tested the CL with the 3 Sigma lenses ? what gives ? Sigma made these APS-C lenses for Leica L mount - do they not work or do not folks know they exist or are all who buy Leica to snobbish to buy a Sigma lens - well I have news - the sensor in the Leica CL is most likely made by Sony or some other manufacturers other then Leica - so there is no shame using the Sigma lenses - I know they work really nice on Sony E mount - but cannot for the life of me find anyone that has mounted them on a Leica CL depressing - reading title on video thought I had finally found the video - noope just more crazy expensive and mostly manual Leica lenses
Hi. Thanks for watching. I would test the Sigma lenses for sure, but unfortunately I don’t have a CL to use. I don’t own one and Leica doesn’t just give cameras to test if and when so it’s challenging. This video was made long before the announcement of these three lenses from Sigma. If this was current I definitely would test. I agree on the price of lenses and it’s great to show alternatives. Many lens reviews on this channel are just that, alternatives to the Brand’s own lenses. As a fan of the L Mount Alliance I show a lot of Sigma, Panasonic lenses here.
The CL is an upgrade for sure. If you are okay going manual focus then of course the M10, but I find with the right lenses the image quality from the CL is close to the M
I bought the CL, 18-56, 11-23, 23, and 55-135 and i love the camera. The size makes it a terrific travel camera and it's about as straightforward to operate as a camera can be. I also own a D750 Nikon (which was my travel camera) and the CL holds its own very well in IQ compared to it. I used the setup on a trip to Rome recently and was extremely pleased with the results. I did not buy the 35mm Summilux because the 50mm focal length has never been my favorite. Based on your review I may buy one. I also bought a quality leather half case and it adds greatly to the hold-ability (word?) of the camera. I disagree about the 18-56mm not being sharp or contrasty - in my images it's the match of the 23mm. Also, the 11-23 is a spectacularly good lens. My only complaint is that, in this day and age, the camera really should have sensor shake to remove dust. Perhaps some minor weather sealing. Anyway, loved the review. Getting into the CL is, like any Leica, quite an investment, but I think it's the best value in the Leica line and arguably their most usable camera.
Hi Chuck thanks for watching. You have a great setup with your CL. Yes try the 35, it really is impressive. I found for Europe I was really happy with the 23 for the most part due to the focal length, but that 35 is special.
For me at least the copy of the 18-56 wasn’t as good as the 23 I had, but have heard good things about the 11-23.
Yes there should be something to help with sensor dust. Perhaps with a CL2 in the future?
I found it also to be a very usable camera especially for traveling.
Did my first travelling with the CL and 23mm lens. I couldn't be happier. It worked perfectly and tucked away conveniently in my carry-on suitcase.
Thanks for this review. I own a TL2 and the more I use it and the more the sensor blows my mind. The advantage of the CL is its integrated EVF . Very important if you plan to shoot with remote flash studio... as the EVF on the TL2 uses the hot shoe... Honestly, I’m planning on purchasing one CL soon for this reason only.
I've been the CL with the 18-56 vario. Despite your reservations I think the lens it great. So much so that I'm going to add the 55-135 very soon. While shooting with primes is great, carrying around a bag of prime lens and changing them the go while doing walking tours is a total pain. And one should not forget that that bag of primes just ain't cheap.
Thanks for watching. Yes zooms are definitely easier to carry around especially for travel. I feel that Leica could make faster zoom lenses for the CL that would be more usable in low light as well as daytime shots.
Also I find the IQ in their primes a bit better. But yes carrying some expensive primes does make traveling more uneasy :)
I have both the CL and TL2 and almost the full set of TL lenses. My goto setup for travelling. Light enough to carry two bodies to reduce lens change. One big difference between CL and TL2 is CL has the option to cancel the exposure preview for "M" setting. This allows you to see what you are looking at in a dimly lit room when using a flash with low ISO. Guess not many Leica users like to use flash. I love to use the TL2 with the visoflex on a vintage German made Susis tripod (extended to 1.1meter hight but only 450g) to do cityscape at night. Looking down the viewfinder is far more comfortable than kneeling down to compose with the horizontal viewfinder or LCD screen. I first thought the GPS on the Visoflex is gimmicky but found it quite useful to see where I took the photos. Tried the CL hand grip but found it very uncomfortable and impractical (completely blocks access to sd card and battery) so returned it. Love the TL system so much that I just bought another TL system camera; the original T. The latest firmware (v1.9) making it almost as useful as the TL2 but at a fiction of the cost second hand.
My go to guy before I buy a camera
The best no BS review's
Love the CL
Thank you for the kind words and for watching.
I bought the CL nearly 2 years ago. Nothing to complain about on the image quality. Clever controls on a minimalist design, highly portable and even looks great like an accessory when you slap on the half leather cover the salesman convinced me to buy. I’ve since added 2 Sigma lenses to the elmarit lens that came with it. It makes for a great travel camera but you need to bring extra batteries. The battery is the weakest link.
Thx. I own an old Leica. After this comprehensive video, I have taken the decision for a CL + summilux 35, 1.4. Thx again.
Great choice and enjoy the combo. The 35 is a fantastic lens
Got the original T for 399 Euro in good shape from a professional dealer with warranty. Turned my Sony 6300 and a Voigtländer lens in to pay for the 23 mm Summicron. In the end, I paid just 500 Euro and have a real Leica with a wonderful Summicron, and love the combination. Btw, the T got mixed reviews when it came out, but Leica fixed the firmware with several updates. As a travel companion and for daily use, it's fast enough.
Congrats on the T! Great camera and lens combination
My CL arrived today, just wanted you to know that part of my 'comfort purchase zone' was based on this video. Upped the firmware to 4.0 immediately, and am trying some of my SL lenses with it. Came with the 18 Elemarit-TL and I like it - tried some of my SL lenses, they're working fine. Time to shop for some equivalent of the 24-90/105 zone for it.
Congrats Randolph! Glad our video could help you make the decision.
Thank you for your review, very well done!
I do have the same difficulties that you experienced on manual focusing M lenses (35 Cron and 50 Lux). My M lenses do not have any calibration problem (they work perfectly on my MM1 and M10 bodies) but I just get much less keepers shooting them with the CL vs. other Leica "classic" RF bodies. The only TL lens I have is the Cron 23 and that one works like a charm on the CL. Just my 2 cents...
Thanks for watching. Yes we have heard the same thing from other CL owners with M lenses.
I have my CL for almost a year now, and still awaiting for the Leica 11-23mm lens available. This lens has been out of stock for a very very long time and I wonder when Leica will start making this lens again.
Noel Wong not sure. They might be coming with a new variant perhaps? What about the second hand market
I bought the CL in December and I love it. It was my first foray into the world of Leica. I’ve been using it with a Voigtlander 35/1.7 and 40/1.2 (which is currently my favorite). I just got the summicron 23/2 and I’m just now starting to shoot with it. The CL was a great purchase. I keep wondering though what would I gain if I were to get the full frame body m10, specifically the m10-p.
Thanks for watching. There are a couple things you will get and some things you won’t get.
Added benefits of the M10/P are full size sensor which means the lenses you purchased you don’t need to take into consideration the focal length change.
Also better build quality. The CL is a well built camera, but to me it’s not in the same league as the M10.
Larger size can be a benefit of disadvantage depending on your needs especially if you want to add larger lenses down the road.
Cons to getting the M10/P would be the Optical viewfinder. For some they love it and it is the DNA of the M series, but depending on your skill level and eyesight, it can be more difficult. Of course you can purchase and external EVF and use live focus on the display but, that means extra costs and a different way of shooting.
Lack of autofocus lens is something you can consider as well. Seems like you prefer manual focus lenses, but if you ever want to use the native lenses from the L lineup you won’t be able to on the M.
Perhaps if you purchased your CL through a
Leica store you could ask to loan and M10 body for a couple days and see how it feels to you? That might give you a better handle on which camera is right for you.
Btw speaking of Voigtländer, we will have a video out this weekend talking about the 50 1.2 and 35 f2 lenses. Should be interesting.
Just got a CL and currently using it with M lenses .Same problem .Try as I might can`t nail focus . I have had no problem manual focusing M lenses on two Sony bodies but with the CL it`s an issue .Maybe it`s because it only has contrast detect .
Yeah not sure either. Leica told me it was a lens issue but I’m hearing from others that’s not the case
@@TECH360TV Thanks for that ,appreciate it .I`m pretty good at the focus peaking game so I did wonder . Just ordered a 23 ... so see how I go .Thanks again .
No prob. Let me know how it goes with the new lens
Should I buy the CL or a6400?
Definitely get that additional grip, it greatly improves handling and is worth the extra bucks. If you want to take ergonomics an additional step further, include a thumb-grip. Thumbs Up make a 'handy' grip that is far less expensive than the model Leica offers.
Excellent review. How much does the M adapter cost? Thanks
Thanks. They aren’t cheap especially the leica ones. Best is to check with your local retailer
I have a CL and use a 35 mm. I agree with you 100% on all it's performance.
Thanks for watching!
Gonna get the Leica CL soon. But so hard to make my choice between TL 23F2 or TL 35F1.4
Do u recommend me to get the TL 18F2.8?
What is ur suggestions yea? Ur help is much appreciate it.
Great review of a great camera. I use mine more than my M and it works like hell with M lenses and even old Nikon AIS lenses. The 35mm Sumicron is great, the same goes for the 18mm and 60mm.
Thanks for watching. Yeah its a much easier camera to use than the M with very similar image quality with the right lenses.
Great video, You mentioned that the CL nice for social media. How about printing images? Would I get good quality images if I print 13X44
super review! Still love this cam very much
To be honest I rather choose the CL before a classic M simply because it’s smaller... I really wish that they had a 35mm pancake for it though...
//freddie
Yes a 35mm pancake would be great!
You can always do the 35mm Voigtlander for pancake breakfast goodness :)
fredrik wardhoff you won’t get the same quality in photography lol
Pancake! that would get me on board for street.....
Does compete with Fuji x100V..i would gladly switch if the comparisons relate to the the CL being bettet
Haven’t tried the X100V yet to compare
I dont understand the dislikes to this video. You are a down to earth guy giving an honest review. I liked and subscribed. Thumbs up from me buddy.
Thanks. People dislike for whatever reason but I appreciate the support
@@TECH360TV The web is full of trolls. Ignore them and keep up the good work.
Thanks will do
maybe because the example pictures are atrocious? Check out Mr. Leica's reviews and sample images.
Hi, great review! thanks!
HELP NEEDED: I am after a camera for family photos as well some photos in the mountains while tracking or doing back country skiing. I am after the Leica CL, might get the Paul smith design. (or is that way too posh?) That comes with the Elmarit TL 1:2.8/18 mm lens. How do you feel about that lens? What lens shall I buy to enjoy the picks mentioned before (portrait mountains nature travel?) thanks for all the suggestions
Hi! Doesn’t matter what model you get. That’s personal preference. The Paul Smith edition looks fun. As far as the 18mm lens, it’s good but struggles in light. The 23 f2 is a really good lens and the 35 1.4 is a reference lens.
@@TECH360TV thanks for the quick reply. PS is off, for the extra 1000 euro I will get an extra lens. please help me out, there are sets with 18mm or with 18-56mm, one of them I would pick, any extra lens I should go for? budget would be under 6000euro. Thanks again also for the review...saw it 3 times :-)))
I think the 18-56 is a better option just because of versatility. My two favourite lenses (I’m a prime guy) are the 23 f2 and 35 1.4
Thanks for your enthusiastic review. Can you please advise about lack of IBIS and how best to cope with this. Your sample images seemed not find this a problem.
Gerry
Best reviews of anything tech on You Tube - great hands on and your reviews tick all the boxes. thanks
Thanks for your kind words and support. Much appreciated.
How does the 23 Summicron compares to the 18mm Elmarit?
What do you mean "reduce the focus peaking to medium or low"? I have the CL and only see that the peaking color can be changed, not the intensity. Maybe I'm missing something. I've also found that peaking works best with longer focal length MF lenses. With wider lenses (I have the Voigtlander 15mm Super Wide Heliar f4.5 for a 22 or 23mm FF equiv.) it is better to use the magnification or just eyeball it. Good review!
Thanks for watching. I understand your confusion, what I was referring to was the strength of the focus peaking, from everything bright red for example to somewhat red to barely and red.
Thanks for the tip on the longer focal lengths. If I get the CL again will try one of those out
Very first impression (opened the box and stated shooting inside) is that compared to the M 240 and the Q, the smaller and lighter CL does not seem as easy to use in manual focus mode with the M lenses I tried... I think the heavier M makes my grip steadier so my shots aren't blurred.. This is of course not the fault of the camera but my lack of practice with it I guess.. Anyway, I'm heading out to shoot with it. I'm taking the 18mm kit lens as well as a 35mm f2.8 Zeiss M mount lens with a cheap Fotasy adapter I bough. I'll post my experience later.
BTW, I bought the CL for it's small and lighter form as well as the AF capability and the other features that it has as a more automatic camera than the M. Lest see how it turns out....
It takes a while with any new camera to find the right way for work with it. Enjoy the journey with your new CL!
@@TECH360TV Got back today from a long walk shooting along the streets of Midtown and Downtown Atlanta. Yesterday I also walked over 20K steps Through Piedmont Park and alone the Belt Line in Atlanta and tried to capture many images.
The take away is that the 18mm f2.8 kit lens does a very good job producing nice images and the AF works very well. Trying to shoot with M mount lenses proved challenging because although I could focus well, the slow shutter speeds the camera chose to use caused blurred images.
I find it difficult to figure out how to select the shutter speed to give me at least a 1/30 speed. I've no idea how to use those little wheels and buttons. I miss the simplicity of the M240.. Also, it's disconcerting to find that I'm always hitting the little wheel near my hand while I hold the camera. Of course, I don't thing it's doing anything so it probably makes no difference.
I'm not like most photographers who review these cameras. I don't really want too many options, adjustments and programs. I really don't want menus within menus within menus. I am all about looking through a viewfinder and capturing the light. I just want to set the shutter speed, aperture, ISO and shoot....
Saturday I used in addition to the kit lens, a 30mm f2.8 Zeiss lens and a 90mm f2.8 Konica with mixed results. Today I took a 40mm f1.2 Voigtlander, and a 35mm f2 Summicron along with the kit lens. Both M lenses are quite good and I think I did better today than yesterday. I think the 35 Cron might have the edge over the Voigtlander. I'll try my 50mm f1.4 Summilux some time this week and perhaps the Elmarit 28 - f2.8.
I've got to figure out how to set up this camera.....
Yes it takes a while to dial in the settings. The dials can be somewhat customised. Also don’t forget the buttons in the middle of the dials. This helps get you to your settings quicker
Just got my Leica CL Paul Smith Edition and love it so much, and the Leica Store has a 40% off discount on the TL 35mm f1.4 ,just wondering the focus speed of this lens, is it equal to the speed of 18/2.8?
Wow congrats!! I think the Paul Smith Edition looks much better in person!
The 35 at 40%?? Your store must really like you 😊
Focusing is fine. Just enjoy the images. That is a reference lens.
Sick T-shirt 😮. Thanks for the review as we 😊
The shirt, where do we get it?
I must know.
Leica store in Porto
Great review. How about the 18mm prime lens.
Hi , I very much like your delivery. Engaging and interesting. And I trust your views. I have a dilemma. Love the 35mm focal length almost 100% of the time. That focal length lens is likely to remain on the camera all of the time. So I wonder whether to buy the Leica CL and 23mm F2 summicron or Sony A7R iii and Zeiss / Sony 35mm F2.8. I know its APS vs FF however something keeps telling me "Get the Leica, enjoys its purity, enjoy the clours" - What think you Sir ?
Thank you. Hmm that’s two very different cameras
@@TECH360TV Thank you for your reply however which in your opionion gives the best image quality assumming I don't wish to print larger than 18" X 12" - I put lots of emphasis on micro contrast and colours etc - Thanks very much.
Nice video. I had the same issues focusing M lenses on a Sony A6500. They need to offer a more precise method. Pity, because these APSC with M lenses is a killer combo in so many ways.
For my experience it was the Lens, but haven’t tried the combo you have. Adapting lenses is always a hit and miss. Having said that I’ve been a fan of techart adapters especially using M lenses on Sony Alpha series cameras.
I have the A6500 and my 50mm Sumilux isn't sharp. However when I put the Summilux on my M8 or Sigma FP, I get great results
Thanks :) I've heard that you can magnify the image in lieu of peaking - do you have any impressions of that?
I was very interested in the Leica T (Typ 701) for M lenses, but it sounded like it would be disappointing for that purpose. The CL looks so messy, I don't get it. I'd love a TL3 with an EVF!!!!!!!
Now that Sigma is on board with the L Mount Alliance I'll definitely be getting one eventually. Please cover some more L mount things :)
Fellow Citizen yes you can and it works well. Actually the M lenses work well on it but I just had a demo lens that needed calibration. Between the CL and TL2 I prefer the CL for the classic look.
I had the Leica T and sold it after a month. Terrible low light performance. I wonder if this issue was fixed with the TL/CL
TL2 and CL are improved
@@TECH360TV great to hear
Great Review, I have a CL and thought everything that you said was spot on. I love mine, I have the 23 and the kit zoom, I really fancy an M lens but can't justify the ££ just yet.... In the meantime my Dad gave me an old Contax Zeiss T* lens 50mm 1.2 to play with. I then got a Novoflex adaptor and Its a great combination, creamy images with lovely bokeh. You are absolutely right though, the beauty of the CL is its versatility, whilst retaining the Leica heritage. I love mine. Keep up the good work!!
Thanks for the kind words and enjoy the CL!
If they manage to pack an M into a body exactly like the CL (evf or hybrid included) I will buy that camera don’t care how much it costs. I really love how the CL looks and feels like. It is gorgeous! It looks like the first Leicas and it encloses more of the leica philosophy than the current M. It is much more discreet, light, packable and better for street photography and that was the origin of Leica. It just lacks of the M image quality. Images haven’t that unique Leica look like the M. So...that would be my greatest wish, a full frame CL with an M mount, or an M in a CL body.
Thanks for watching. Yes I think a lot of people would be excited for a camera like that. Perhaps one day
My cl reaplaced my M for daily shooting. The image quality is about 80-90% as good as the M10 but the evf is awesome and the whole kit with the 18mm is feather light. Awesome setup.
Thanks for watching. The CL really impressed me and how light it is makes it a great travel companion
Hi,
Think wanna switch to Leica, any recommend between Leica CL or Q?
Hi. It depends on your shooting style. If you just want one lens and that’s it go with the Q. If you want the versatility of changing lenses then the CL
The Q has a little better image quality and the lens is very important at that point. It is gorgeous. It also has the macro function, wich is great to have, and the evf is also a bit better (or this is my impression) and works perfect together with the lens. BUT... in the other hand, the CL is, in my opinion, the most beautiful camera on the market right now, stylish, perfect size, also great image quality, the buttons display is fantastic AND...here it comes...you can use M glass on it! This is for me the big point; M glas means image quality but also tiny size and the best balance between size and quality. I found myself always taking the CL with me with a tiny 21mm M lens and quite often with even 2 other M lenses (50mm and 90mm) in a very small bag while the Q stayed every time at home because of a bigger size and heavier body. There is not a big difference but enough to choose the more versatile set. So I ended up selling my Q praying that Leica some day comes up with a mixture of both: an M with an evf or hybrid vf and the size of an M3.
Of course, I made this because I don’t care manual focusing. If you think you’re gonna mount the much bigger L lenses most of the time, because of the AF, then I think you should go for the Q.
By the way, if you choose CL+M lenses, take into account that you will have to spend extra 400 bucks for the adapter ring, wich I find ridiculous but is the only way you can mount that glass on it.
You also have the option of using third party adapters that are less expensive. I agree the CL +M lenses do offer more versatility. However and this is after speaking to Leica, the T lenses have just as good optics in them.
Great video Bobby. Thank you
Thanks Roland
My following thoughts are solely based on reading reviews and watching bloggers telling me all kinds of things about APS-C/FF sensors, theirs lenses and so on. Leaving aside camera bodies finishes, ergonomics and specs on EVFs,, menus, etc., this is what I think about how to yield an optimal IQ result from any APS-C sensor camera: use a lens engineered for FF sensors! Why? Well, it is an universal fact that ALL lenses, regardless their focus length, are curved made. As a result, the light rays passing through the outer surface of the lens tend to bend, thus deteriorate, the captured image on the flat sensor, compared to the rays passing through the central area of the lens, less curved. The farther from the real world imagery produced by a lens the more occurrence of "aberrations". Optical aberrations occur when points in the image do not translate back onto single points after passing through the lens - causing image blurring, reduced contrast or misalignment of colors (chromatic aberration). Lenses may also suffer from uneven, radially decreasing image brightness (vignetting) or distortion. Also, the wider the focal length, the more susceptible to aberrations. To minimize such inevitable events under the law of optical physics, camera manufacturers developed a number of optical counter-measures by adding ingenuous and costly engineering solutions via complex computerized experiments. Yet, none of them has, so far, zeroed the threshold balance between the real world imagery and its transportation onto digital photography sensors. Some have come close and cost a fortune. How about, then, through a simple and also ingenuous economic trick, to achieve the same similar results yielded through the above costly laboratory processes? Mount a lens meant for a full frame sensor onto a smaller one, such the APS-C. By doing this, the APS-C sensor will capture the light rays coming from the less curved surface of the FF lens, its central area, leaving out all those annoying bent rays susceptible to cause the above mentioned aberrations.
This same thoughtful exercise of pure ancient Greek syllogism could be applied on the correlation between large to medium, medium to full frame and APS-C to Micro 4/3 formats.
As I said in my opening remarks, all of the above is just an empirical theoretical logic exercise. Therefore, in the real world of real photographers like you, I may be completely off the track from sanity thinking. If that is the case, sorry for wasting your time.
Leica need to release the Q with a Summilux zoom like the D-lux. I appreciate you can crop, especially with the Q2 but it's not quite the same concept. I love the D-Lux Summilux and really would like the equivalent on the Q. Leica please ?
Yes the digital zoom they introduced doesn’t really give much in terms of functionality. I don’t think they will release a different lens to the Q. If you want that choice then they will push you to their cameras
@@TECH360TV I agree. Leica aren't stupid and they know if they released the Q with a great zoom lens it would kill some of their other lines. I'll stick to my D-Lux thanks. BTW you're a great presenter and have a wonderfully genuine and relaxed approach (and I've worked with hundreds of professionals). Keep up the good work.
Thank you 🙏🏻
Interesting. This is the only useability review of the TL system I have seen; reading the spec sheet would impart more information than the other reviews i have seen. I chose the TL2 because it seems a more serious camera; it has USB charging and a tilting EVF which matches it to my Panasonic GX9 (MFT lenses are good and cheap and nobody can afford many Leica lenses); I very rarely look through a straight viewfinder now (a habit I picked up with my Leica X113 with tilting Visoflex, and that is now a box that must be ticked on my purchasing list). I get the feeling the TL2 is a mini-SL, more of a film back really, rather than a M (I inherited an M3 and never warmed to it; I was always a Rollei girl, first love, then Nikon until digital. Alas I hate Nikon digital). Yes adapted lenses are a disappointment, I adapted my Nikkor D primes and if you nail it the images are great but, mostly you dont and you have to focus mostly open to reduce the focussing field, which is a drag. I feel the CL is just an X camera with interchangeable lenses and I would rather have my X113. Intersting that you didnt think the zoom popped; I found the opposite but my guess is you were using it wide open and I take panaramic street shots and am mostly using it at the hyperfocal sweet spot, and there it sings like no other zoom I have ever used. However, its slow so a Summer tool only; it has sat in a drawer all winter. Yes I mostly use the 23mm Summicron. So far I dont like it as much us the X113 23mm f1.7 macro Summilux but its early days. Will I end up loving these TL cameras; I really dont know yet. I get disappointed with a day's shoot and then I get a fantastic image and think, Oh Yes!!! I can rely on my GX9 with an olympus 17mm f1.8 to always get the shot; with the Leica I wont know till I load it in post; as like as not the highlights are burnt out and the jpgs suck badly, I have to load raw which means loading into DarkTable my raw loader before final processing; an extra step and an extra chore in my workflow. I think these cameras will get better; its the start of something rather than the finished deal. If I buy the 35mm Summilux then I will have commited but that is clearly a way off; right now my GX9 and D700 rule the camera drawer. Have fun ;-)
Thanks Vici for your post. Really appreciate a good discussion.
The TL2 definitely has its charm. Now that you mention it it does have a bit of that SL feel to it minus the UI. The CL is essentially to me a mini - M with some of its quirks and successes.
Yes the zoom for me wasn’t a stand out but you are right, I shot more wide angle especially in European streets where the narrow lanes pushed me to shoot that way.
The 23 is a good lens and surprised me in many ways, but yes there were times I missed shots. Autofocus is good but if i was to compare to other cameras it does have its faults in terms of speed and nailing focus at times, but because I come from shooting a film MP, I’m okay with it. I’m sure over time the lenses and cameras will improve but if we always wait for the next best thing, we always will wait :)
Btw big fan of Rollei. Always wanted one and maybe one day I’ll get one, but for now I admire from a distance.
Well my father was a Photographer hence my Leica IIIg and M3; his runaround working cameras, he would always shoot weddings on a 5x4 Kalart. So growing up in the 50s and 60s I learnt on his Rolleiflex TLR and the seed had been sown. When money appeared in my account after college in 73 he of course wanted me to buy Leica but, of course as Picasso said, you have to kill your father. I bought a gorgeous black Rollei SL35 and some seriously good Zeiss primes. The 80s added a Rollei 35s with a Zeiss 40mm f2.8 Sonor. Really that set the bar high. 1990 I switched to Nikon FM2n with my usual collection of primes and that saw me good up till digital hit a few years ago. Father gets the last laugh, he will be rolling about up there on his cloud, I bought the Leica X113 and that was the end of Nikon. I have seriously high hopes for the TL range so I will persevere. I dont think manual lenses will cut it though. I must get on top of the exposure and white balance problems as the metering is a bit flakey; something you mentioned in your TL2 review i remember. But I am now definitely addicted to the Leica image quality and signiture and it has changed my photography for ever; my images have spread out to XPAN Panaramic format for complex street scenes and i am lost for ever; no way back now ;-)
Bobby, I you're spot on with your take on the Leica CL. I'm shooting with the Leica SL mostly, then juggle my Leica-T & CL, every time the CL continues to bring the fun in just shooting life! @isaiahphotons will depict what I'm taking about. The 18mm 2.8 is neat too, but you're right about the 23mm 2.0 on many levels. It brings the pro at times out of a small, simple, clever little APS-C with the Leica color science, period! Let's collaborate one of these days!
Thanks Isaiah. Will check out your pics! Yes can talk more in the near future :)
Great reviews. Not sure if I missed it in the comments but would you recommend the CL to the Q2?
Thanks. Really depends on your shooting style. If you only want one lens then the Q is the easier choice. If you want to build out your system the CL will be better
great review there, may i ask if your photo samples are straight out of camera here or edited? thanks!
Thank you. The images are slightly edited
I love the cl, switched from fuji xpro2. After 3 month I am still struggling with the dials. The menu is much better than the fuji. Its a keeper! Important point is also the L Mount alliance! Much more great Lens options are coming up
Yes Leica’s menu system is easier to navigate. L Mount alliance should get really exciting in a year from now.
How do you compare the IQ from CL sensor with the Xtrans? I want to sell my xt2 because Im tired and bored of Fuji after 3 years and I'm looking for a new camera! Thank you!!
@@unoquehacefotos I didnt notice any difference when it comes to IQ... around the same. Whats more important is the quality of the lenses. The ratings are not as good as the fuji lenses but I am veneery happy with the Leica glass. Also the 18mm pancake is extremely good
nice review. a x100F user in which I love BUT have the question of "what if" I had a similar camera with a AF fantastic lens line up like the Q2 but with more lens options and I do not prefer a 28mm.... thus the CL and its lens are interesting. Leica make a FF system like the Q and I'll be first in line, mostly because of the lens.......
Thanks for watching. Yes there are a number of us that would love to see that combo happen. Perhaps in the future
Thanks for the good review. I'm waiting for the March 6th announcement of the new Q, if indeed it's higher resolution (47mp?) I will be ordering it. That will leave room for cropping.
Yes looking forward to it as well ;)
Thanks for the great video, because of you I purchase this beautiful camera and using it with a Cron 28mm. May I ask you what profile you’re using for your pictures in color? Very nice rendering. Thanks.
Thanks for watching and great lens choice!! I shoot in raw for the most part and grad my photos afterwards. Black and white pics are based off the monochrome setting in the camera.
Thanks for the info, and good job on the color job in PP.
I love my CL too!
I think this CL suit to me than M. Small, auto focus, good picture. Compact good for me who love traveling
It’s a great camera for traveling.
Picking one up tomorrow
Awesome!
Focus peaking for M lenses on a Sony A7iii is second to none, and being full-frame, there is no reason to buy this CL, unless you just want the Leica-Standard look of the CL. Yes, it is nice, but if the $3k is important to you, there are better things to do with it.
(I am a Leica user with several cameras from 1930s Standard, through early M bodies to M7. .. and always will be.)
Thank you for this informative and frank review. It is certainly one I will refer to others.
A7iii evf was too small, too low res for me. Could not enjoy using it.
Nice review, not really on you but to be interrupted by youtube 4 times with its advertisements was a huge bummer
Apologies on that. We’ve noticed the ads are more now than before
Nice review. But hows it compare to fujifilm xpro2? Thank you.
Thanks for watching. Haven’t tested the xpro2 yet to compare.
Have owned both, still have the CL. X-Pro2 was nice but it’s too bulky, especially for street work. Fuji’s film simulations are cool but they can’t beat Leica color science and image quality.
I am about to buy a camera and I am pretty sure it’ll be the Leica CL. Looking for a camera for street photography. I travel a ton for work and go to some pretty cool places. It’s nice and small. Not sure which lens I’ll get- maybe the TL 23 F/2. Once I decide I’m gonna pull the trigger! Thanks for the video.
Congrats. TL 23 F/2 or 35 1/4 are winners. You can’t go wrong with either.
TECH360.TV I just bought the Leica CL starter kit. Finally pulled the trigger! I’ll def check out your videos. Thanks for info!
John Leahy congrats!! Enjoy the camera and if a can help you with anything let me know. - Bobby
TECH360.TV I just got the TL 23 F/2 on eBay (new) for $1,049. Can’t wait to shoot with it!!!
I have it, I love it, I'll keep it for a long time (23mm, f2, summilux, 60mm, f2.8 macro, elmarit).
You really lose a lot of the center sharpness of Full Frame lenses sticking them on APSC cameras. It's only really the corner sharpness that you might notice a slight improvement.
actually you get all of the center sharpness as that is the light falling on the sensor.
Just returned from a photography expedition to Morocco using the CL instead of my M10. Love, love love it, especially with the Summilux 35m TL f/1.4. I am home now and I am selling my M10 and all my lenses. The image quality, ease of carrying the CL around, auto focus, make it a very special camera. Go to @penhanphoto to see some images
Thanks for watching. Will check out your photos :)
Really?? Because I fell in LOVE with the M10 during a workshop but can't afford it unfortunately. Seems like this is the one :)
but there you have only iphone photos...
It may have been interesting to see how you got on manually focusing the M lens on an M series body.....was the mid-focus a CL thing, or (no offence) a user thing?
No offence taken but If you watch the end of the video you will see what the problem was :)
TECH360.TV :-) ...I stopped watching as you wrapped up the end of the video & the title end screens came up.....totally missed your update at the very end!
That’s great, at least it solves that mystery. Thank you.
I don’t own a Leica, not even used one, however I do have a number of M & L39 lenses now which I use an Sony A7R3, but the Leica cameras do intrigue me somewhat, mainly the M series, but the CL too as it’s been described as almost a mini M.
The M appeals due to its full frame sensor. I had an APSc DSLR for a short while when I moved from film to digital, and I didn’t get on with how it effectively changed the view through my existing lenses, so within a few years I had upgraded to a FF DSLR. So I fear I will view the CL in the same way if I got one and wish I’d gone for the M.
On the other hand, the EVF on the A7R3 has been a revelation to me, moving to mirrorless after years with SLR’s, it was a concern to me for I switched, which quickly evaporated. I now don’t know if I’d want to go back to an optical finder. And there in lies the rub, the CL now appeals due to its EVF, the M series is now a concern to me that I’d miss EVF, but never having really used a rangefinder that also intrigues me.
An M series with a built in EVF maybe the answer, or a FF CL? ......whatever, I bet I’d still have one dilemma or another with it!
Understand. The M with the optical view finder is nice, but low light shooting can be challenging. I prefer EVF and the CL doesn’t disappoint. I hope Leica does come out with an EVF M one day. A full frame CL would basically be that or a Q2.
TECH360.TV ....I’m not interested in the Q2....unless they stuck an M mount on it....fixed lens is a deal breaker for me.
When I look at Leicas digital offerings, it feels a bit like a scatter gun approach to me, they have a number of interesting options that are hitting the target, but all seem to just hit the bullseye some how!....
Q2 full frame sensor, EVF, but fixed lens
M2 full frame sensor, M mount interchangeable lens mount, but no EVF
CL interchangeable mount that can adapt M mount lenses, EVF, but not full frame.
.....it kind of feels like the only combo they have not offered is the one that would really appeal to me!
Curious to see the L lenses from the SL and the new Panasonic on it... 😜
Yes! But the L lenses are big so while they might fit will be top heavy.
Yes of course. But still usable (maybe with the grip on) and nice feature to have I think... The CL can be a top 2nd body for street for a SL or S1(R) user maybe.
And maybe Sigma or Panasonic will make some pretty pancake lenses too. I mean the CL is very attractive for a L mount user I think. 😉
Yoann Panda we might try it in the future as it’s a request I have gotten from a number of viewers.
Agreed the CL is great. And it is BETTER than an M simply because it has a great digital viewfinder, and it also has autofocus. Sorry but I got fed up with rangefinder focusing on my M9 - and much prefer the CL. And the viewfinder means you can put whatever lens on you like (within reason) and you SEE WHAT YOU GET! Sorry again but the rangefinder series is too old-fashioned now - using a long focus lens on the M9 is a pain- but on the CL you see exactly what the camera sees. OK the Q would be good... but it is only the one lens!
Thanks for watching. There will always be the purists that love the M for its optical view finder, manual focusing, rich history etc., and rightfully so, but there is a case to make (which you did) that an EVF, that helps with focusing long lens or even faster lens would be welcomed by many. Perhaps Leica will one day make a camera that does those things in an M body and give us the best of both worlds. In the meantime there is the CL :)
Thanks for your comment. Maybe Leica one day ... well, I guess we will have to dream on. They are very clever at marketing and really produce an excess of new models. Note that NOT ONE combines the great features that one would expect = full frame + autofocus + digital v/finder. So compromise is necessary.... If they brought out a Q with interchangeable lenses - it would dominate the market surely! And kill off the dated M system... which is why they don't do it! But then there's nothing wrong with the Cl - the only thing "against|" it is that it is not full frame - but with 24 Mpixels (like the Q) what's to worry then ?!!
David Round Actually they have a full frame + autofocus + digital viewfinder, it’s the SL... A beautiful camera. Check Steve Huff, he talks a lot of it and loves the SL with M lenses. Loves it so much he sold his M and keep the SL. Personnaly, I just hoped it was a little bit lighter (and of course the price, but quality and legacy have a cost)... 😉
Is that Tata Cahyani?
Yes it is.
@@TECH360TV you are very lucky 😎😅😅
Most of those pictures have blown out highlights and a strange white mist
Not sure what you are referring to. No strange white mist or blown out highlights on the video I saw. There is a style to the photos that might not be to your preference but most of my images aren’t blown out
Personally would love to own a Leica but for now, I'm gonna need a Sony full frame for work :P
Understand. Have you tried the SL?
5:03 talks about the great color rendition and shows a black and white photo while doing it
there are a number of photos with colours. Let’s not nitpick for the sake of it
i love the T-shirt :))
Thanks!
Yeah I tried the silver body in ION Mall! I love it! Can you give me the T shirt! 🙏
Silver is beautiful! Haha shirt came from the Leica Store in Porto Portugal
2024. CL still a great camera.
Leica CL is not what Leitz Minolta CL back then
There is some of that DNA. Light weight, easy to carry camera, lower cost alternative to the M, etc.
@@TECH360TV wrong, one is digital and the older is film, LOL just kidding, i like the review and i like the CL new or old.
Really hard to justify the price as it almost 80-90% price of the Q or used M+lens...
As of late there have been price reductions or packaged pricing. Leica doesn’t see the CL as a camera that is less than the M or Q, but as a different option.
I want a real Leica, the CL reminds me a basic point and shoot format camera, when you say Leica , the model that comes to mind is the M body....the CL reminds me of a Panasonic LUMIX brand with a red dot... good review otherwise... I would even consider the Vario X...an older model, and yes with a fix mini zoom, can’t afford to carry 2-3 Leica lens on a trip, plus just tooooo expensive for a small point and shoot type of body with the Leica lenses...
It is a real Leica and it’s made in Germany, but I do understand your feelings.
Price point I personally feel is too high considering the competition outside and inside Leica’s lineup.
Portugal!!
Yes. Beautiful place!
Nice & Thanks :)
Thanks for watching
If images are not strigth out of camera, then is perfect, because you flatened the majority of them.
Images were edited
@@TECH360TV Cameras are sold for what they produce, your style may not appeal to certain categories of photographers. This one made me a good impression of the camera th-cam.com/video/V_oxt24fT84/w-d-xo.html
@@TECH360TV I think this is even better th-cam.com/video/SSB3mkOikiI/w-d-xo.html
Well that’s why there is TH-cam. No one watches one video only. Steve Huff also edits his photos. I enjoy watching his videos as well.
We all have our style, and my style might not appeal to you and that’s okay. No picture is universally liked. No art is as well. We just shoot and edit what we enjoy and embrace the process.
I want one.
“It’s A Great camera
APSC....I would probably just get a fuji.
It’s definitely an option when you look at price, specs and technology, but for some Leica means more than those things. There is no right or wrong choice, just what works for the individual.
Please say "arguably" more...
Why didn’t you address the biggest criticism? Battery life (or lack thereof). Although you addressed it in the original video, one would expect that it would have been covered during your real world review.
I hate to think you intentionally left that out in order to simply prop the camera.
Photos were stunning and great info about the lenses.
Thanks for watching and asking this. There was nothing intentional about not talking about it. Battery life varies so much depending on the photographer and how they use the camera. Does one use the screen to shoot, does one only use the EVF, does one check every photo or shoot in burst mode all the time, does one shoot a lot of video? There are many variables to this and so I didn’t address it as it wasn’t a glaring fault to the camera for me. I was able to shoot an entire day without issue. For me I shoot stills only and after I’m done getting a shot I turn off the camera.
For the size of the camera and the battery size it was fine for me. If it was an issue I would bring it up like how I did for the M10-D review.
Btw thanks for the compliment on the photos. Much appreciated. - Bobby
And the 50mm not focusable ................ that's a worry .
Thank you for clarifying that part of your experience. As simple as it seems, it is crucial information.@@TECH360TV
N Pet it was the lens that needed calibration. Thus why I clarified it at the end of the video
Aubrey Kellum no prob. Our videos here are not a final word but the beginning of a conversation. I love to hear feedback good or bad on others experiences with the camera, our video etc.
i felt let down by the lack of sharp ness.
With what lens?
Arguably
It’s our “hold that thought” phrase :)
nice and well = we know Leica lenses are nice and yes all between $3000-$10.000 so for a normal person the Sigma L mount lenses might have to do - but why has no one on TH-cam tested the CL with the 3 Sigma lenses ? what gives ? Sigma made these APS-C lenses for Leica L mount - do they not work or do not folks know they exist or are all who buy Leica to snobbish to buy a Sigma lens -
well I have news - the sensor in the Leica CL is most likely made by Sony or some other manufacturers other then Leica - so there is no shame using the Sigma lenses - I know they work really nice on Sony E mount - but cannot for the life of me find anyone that has mounted them on a Leica CL
depressing - reading title on video thought I had finally found the video - noope just more crazy expensive and mostly manual Leica lenses
Hi. Thanks for watching. I would test the Sigma lenses for sure, but unfortunately I don’t have a CL to use. I don’t own one and Leica doesn’t just give cameras to test if and when so it’s challenging.
This video was made long before the announcement of these three lenses from Sigma. If this was current I definitely would test. I agree on the price of lenses and it’s great to show alternatives. Many lens reviews on this channel are just that, alternatives to the Brand’s own lenses.
As a fan of the L Mount Alliance I show a lot of Sigma, Panasonic lenses here.
Your battery is faulty it’s erratic.
I bought this camera but ended up gettin the Leica SL because the video tech in the CL is bad and gives you no control 👎🏽👎🏽
SL is much better for video. CL is about photography with some video functionality
TECH360.TV agreed but the video functionality is a headache, and useless for 90% of videographers
Huawei p30 pro
Nooo
TL2 and CL are different in image qualities... CL is better in my opinion
Actually they are the same :)
TECH360.TV really? Wow. I have been shooting with a X-U. Is getting a CL an upgrade? Or should I just get the M10?
The CL is an upgrade for sure. If you are okay going manual focus then of course the M10, but I find with the right lenses the image quality from the CL is close to the M
I'll stick with Fuji