Chargery BMS, watch before buying!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ย. 2024
- More info:
1. Contacted Chargery support, they asked me to measure resistance between balancing pins, measurements was correct, so only solution they offered is to send BMS back to repair.
2. Issue with 1st BMS was similar, but it was draining only 1 cell (#15). At that time it was connected to 16s1p 7.5kWh pack. I tried to switch highest and lowest voltage cells in pack, and after few cycles #15 will go again out of balance. This tells me that issue was not related to cells resistance
3. After assembling 16s3p 23.5kWh pack I left it for 1 week (no BMS, no balancer connected), then it was discharged and charged back to 3.6 and all cells was in 5mV diff. That tells me that pack itself is fine. When I connecting BMS, pack will disbalance after few days.
23.5kWh LiFePo4 pack: • Building 23.5kWh batte...
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Since you are running LiFePO4 cells you should really knock your overcharge cutoff charge voltage down to around 3.45-3.47V per cell and the resume voltage to around 3.3-3.32V per cell. Then set your over-discharge low voltage cut-off to 2.9v per cell and the over-discharge resume to around 3.1v. Remember that the resting voltage of most types of LiFePO4 cells that are at 100% SOC is around 3.33-3.35V per cell. Ride the flatter part of the discharge curve and stay away from the ends where you have very little capacity anyway, and it will be far easier to keep the cells balanced. You will also likely get far more cycles out of your cells if you aren't putting them under the stress of being fully charged or over-charged. Basically what is likely happening is that your cells are not matched well enough for the chargery to balance them at the top end of the charge curve. Remember that the 1.2A balance current is nothing for cells that large if you are charging them at more than 5-10X that current.
thanks for input, narrowing voltage range will help in this case for upper voltage, but cells 9-16 will be first cells that reaching 2.9V while cells 1-8 will be at about 3.15V..
@@CaptainProton1 thanks, I lowered voltage on MPPT.
@@CaptainProton1
very well said. exactly my experience
Always check the voltage directly with a multimeter. I found my Chargery to be off by more than 100mv and I switched to a Batrium.
yeah, but batrium has a similar problem. i have a longmon 40mV off, now laying in a box and the batrium reckons it is in their specifications, -50 to +50mV , which means in the extreme two cells can read 100mV apart even though they are the same voltage. which for lifepo4 cells is totally unacceptable.
not to mention of the cellmon plugs disconnecting. so far i had to change about 18 out if 16. most of them paid by myself too.
Grade-A cells do not mean they are Matched & Batched. That process runs then through full Charge & Discharge cycles while testing the IR at the various test voltage points for all the cells which is recorded by the machine. Once the full test cycle (up to 3 days runtime) is complete, the cells are then separated & "batched" according to their tests for IR @ Set Voltages. This can easily double the cost of the Grade-A Commodity Cells that everyone is buying at this time.
EDITED TO ADD: Your Battery Bank is 3P16S (3 cells in parallel, in 16S config). Using UNMATCHED Cells is Highly dubious with paralleling. See references below. There is a Reason that EV Batteries are all Matched & Batched together because they are all set into parallel within the packs. If you separate your cells from the busbars and test the actual individual cells you may realize things are not as they may appear. Do NOT be surprised if you have 1 cell that is Hi, one that is Lo and one in the middle , and when you tes all your "sets" you will see similar deviations. (Guess what is happening to the cells going outside of normal operating spec, within those parallel "sets").
Appreciate that also these cells will "REST" happily between 3.50-3.60V and will rarely if ever stay at 3.65. These will all diverge a bit at the top, typically by 1mv per Ah of cell Capacity. So expect 100mv on a 100AH cell.
To determine the Internal Resistance of the cells you are using, you will need something like this YAOREA 1035+ (they are an OEM, many copy this & rebadge it) www.aliexpress.com/item/4000055332778.html But you will have t do the long & hard process for every cell to genuinely evaluate each.
REFERENCE INFO :
batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/bu_803a_cell_mismatch_balancing
Orion BMS has GREAT Tech Docs !
www.orionbms.com/general/pre-balancing-cells/
Want to see what getting Matched & Batched cells would cost ?
www.batteryspace.com/custom-job-for-matching-cells.aspx
I have one but have not hooked it up yet instead I use ANT BMS 300 amp with lcd works very good for me.
Thank you for sharing this situation. I'm also looking for a 48v/16s BMS and not very technical so this information is great but i'm weary of moving forward until you solve or identify the issue even though Chargery has some great features. Please keep posting.
The problem may very well be the BMS. This is according to my experience with the Chargery bms16T that I used first on my Nissan Leaf battery bank 4p14s about 10kw. The BMS always show cell #13 to be over 170-240mv between charge and discharge all the time. My voltmeter and my active balancer (exactly like the one you’re using with your BMS) shows that all my cells are within 0.010mv- 0.038mv.
I change my batteries recently to two banks the LG Chem N 2.1 3.6v LIPO cells 2p14s (approx 6kw each) and the Chargery BMS shows that the same cell #13 shows up to 0.260mv over when fully charged to 4.2v ( I however have them correctly charged to 4.05v and discharged no lower than 3.4v per cell). While I’m not knocking these BMS because I hear that they work (as long as the one you have works as it should). I think you should reach out to your supplier while it’s still under warranty.
To me, it looks like poor connections between the parallel 3 cells and the imbalance is due to all cells in the parallel triple not carrying the same current. If possible you could try going from a 3PS16 to a 1PS16, rebalance the pack and see if the problem persists. The BMS getting warm when balancing is off does seem odd though. Maybe there is a bug in the software.
imbalance was happening when I had 1S16P config as well, here is why an active balancer was added to the pack.
@@SolarEngineering I have huge problems with BMS Chargery's missing balancing capability eventhough this was one of the reasons for me buying it. What effective active balancer can you suggest? I use cells in my small electric car, so quite another use of batteries than you.I'm looking for one with a very good capacity (high Amp) and hopefully something that is fairly to get from Denmark (where I live)
@@larsandersen2048 Chargery balancer is doing nothing, just forget about it. I'm using this in my system: th-cam.com/video/rQgOet7AH0I/w-d-xo.html
Works great so far.
@@larsandersen2048 you could buy the version that does more than 2A
Is you have the same issue with 2 bms then check for resisantace (not ir) between your connections i had the same issue and it was one of the series conection tha had like 2.5ohms. I change the conection with a good one with 0.1 and the cell voltage was displayed correctly.
on 1st BMS I used cable that was in package, first time crimped terminals and then after found issue, soldered terminals.
for 2nd BMS did my own wires, I haven't measure resistance so will check it just in case, thanks!
@@SolarEngineering did you fix it?. Im interested on the results.
@@FrancescoOliveri nope, right now bms working with balancer in parallel.
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Im having a similar problem, what brand of active balancer are you using?
I'm not using chargery BMS anymore.
I have JK BMS with 2A active balancer.
s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_DFx4mhN
👍 Yes Akb LiFePo4. +BMS
It’s interesting that cells 9-16 are giving you problems. Are the balance leads longer or perhaps subject to electrical interference for that bank? Have you checked the actual voltages at the connector? If they match up with what the BMS is reading then the cells or wiring is the issue. If the voltages at the connector don’t match up then the BMS is faulty.
In my case BMS reads voltages somewhat accurate, but it's fluctuating it can show V diff as 50mV and next second just 25mV.
Also with 1st BMS it was draining only one cell (#9).
It could be balancing lead wires, but I'm not sure how to test it, I'm not gonna run shielded wire to every cell :)
You appear to have the bms lying on top of one of your cells. Never have things which get warm lying against a cell. It causes premature and uneven cell degradation.
Only non-flammable materials too.
Convection. Heat from your batteries trsnfers up. Stacking batteries vertically with electronics on top is not a good idea.
Not sure I agree with your assessment. It has nothing to do with the chargery. You should not charge the cells up to 3.65v. Beyond 3.45v the differences in different cells will show up. You can try to switch lower voltage cell to a different location. You will most likely find out that the same cell at a new location is again the lowest voltage, it is independent of where the cell is located. It does not makes senses for the chargery to bleed one cell at a specific location, say number 9. Also, 97f is nothing to worry at all. It is low temperature. I would not charge the cells beyond 3.5v and set the alarm at 3.45v. When the cells are depleted to near 2.5v, they also show big voltage differences. You can understand this by reading discharge curves of the lifepo4 batteries.
Good points, I tried to alternate cells in pack and confirmed that cells are not an issue, BMS draining one cell at particular position (with 1st BMS it was #15).
About temperature: I'm not worrying that BMS module gets to 97F itself, I'm worrying that it is doing something that causes it to get to 97F. When balancing is off then the main module shouldn't be warm at all.
Anyway, I felt like I have to disclose all of this info, since in my previous videos I was telling only positive things about BMS.
here is the video with 1st module:
th-cam.com/video/ic_Ulh8DOlk/w-d-xo.html
at that time I didn't know about a problem with BMS, but you can see an issue with cell #15. Pack was top balanced right before test.
Have you attempted to update the firmware? 4.02 is now out.
not yet, will update and see result.
My chargery BMS8t is set to balance at storage and charge and discharge 8 x 200ah cells and it does not even get warm
High chance that cells balanced and BMS not balancing. It has passive balancer meaning it will burn energy from highest voltage cell. Also BMS has temp sensor that will slow down balancing if BMS overheating.
Have You had problem with the 12 volt alarm output? My 12 volts goes to 0v when I turn off the screen by pushing the negative or stop button.
From chargery instruction I read that the stop button is to stop the discharge, so here is why it shutting down 12V. (I personally never used this button).
Hello. My BMS is 24T 300A. in the beginning I worked and showed Ampere and worked. Then, for some reason, the ampere stopped showing. Now the battery consumption shows and does not change the level. I connected everything as it should be. Ampere "0" shows. The battery level reading does not change either. Please help me, what should I do? Thank you.
The only thing I can suggest is to do factory reset and try to recalibrate shunt.
@@SolarEngineering Yes, I calibrated the shunt, it worked.
@@pulatsabis I have had problems with amping suddenly showing 0 all the time. I have reset shunt, but sometimes it will again only show 0Amp with the need for recalibration again. Did you solve it by just one time recalibrate??
Same thing happed to me. I tried to change the balance parameters in charge, in discharge, storage but same behavior (charging relay turns off. Some times diff is 150 to 200mV). I have only 2 of HA02 battery equalizer (12S leaf battery system) & I connected it to unbalance cell to actively equalize with other cells. now its somewhat OK but different is around 80mV. I brought this in 2019 Aug, After 3 months I found this issue but I don't have any clue at that time. Is it recommended to turn of the balance parameters?
I'm not using Chargery balancing option only because it's passive balancer, and in my case BMS was getting to hot when it was balancing cells (I didn't measure temp at that time, but was around 120-125F)
Thanks
Hello...Which relais do you have to switch off in worst case? 300Ampere? Where can i order`?
it's relays from EV
got it from this store: azlithium.com/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=43&cat=EV+Precharge%2FRelays
@@SolarEngineering Thank you for your answer. I can see the BMW controller at this link, but standard Relay with coil 12V and nominal 300A not...:(
@@kevstone122 I'm using these 2 relays:
azlithium.com/shopexd.asp?id=200
azlithium.com/shopexd.asp?id=197
what do you think about electrodacus?
I haven't tested it, but looks like it's a good BMS. One reason I cannot use it - it only supports 8 cells.
Hi, we're you able to resolve or the solution was to use a active balancer. I am interested in getting a chargery bms.
unresolved yet...
Thanks for the reply. Currently what Bms would your recommend or you going with the active balancer approach? Thanks.
@@MadStylesGooffy unfortunately don't have any BMS in mind yet. I'm looking for something that will control charge/discharge relays.. I'll update description as soon as find something.
Thanks. I guess I will go with active balancer and this bms...
@@MadStylesGooffy try BMS only first, it might work well.. If not then I'd add balancer.
hmmm...is it correct keeping the cells that way? Shouldn't they all face upward? I'm saying this because I saw a video where a cell was open apart...and inside theres a liquid...if kept as you do isn't the liquid making wet unevenly? (I'm not an expert *_*) In any case I've got your same configruation 3p16s...but on a car and most probably as the comment from @UCPnytaQrokft1oIyv5_NEXAits important. checking every single cell and see if someone its not that great or as good as the others.
I checked with the seller/manufacturer about cells position, and they said it's ok for these cells to be laid down like this.
@@SolarEngineering thank you 🙂 I guess I was told wrong.
Most of mine slosh around, telling me they are not completely full. No fluid touching plates, no ions transferring for storing! Mine are all upright.
@@USA-GreedyMenOfNoIntegrity did you ever smell a strange smell?...I often smell something weird whenever I get into my car...but I aint see any leakage...but some gasses but I wonder where are they coming from since the valves are all sealed
Я не поняла, ты рекомендуешь купить такую бээмэску или не надо? 😀
I'm just providing info about this BMS. It has great features, but the quality is questionable.
@@SolarEngineering вот, засранец... русский совсем забыл, да?
@@SolarEngineering поняла я, поняла, можешь не переводить. Подписалась на всякий случай, вдруг че интересного снимешь 😁
@@sarabarabu4741 не забыл конечно
How is your powerwall going? are you still using the BMS? I'm building a new house with 26 panels and 8kw inverter and want to build my powerwall too with probably 32 lifepo4 batteries 272amp each. I was thinking of going completely off-grid but that is probably not possible, I´m afraid I will lose power in the winter. I live in Portugal where we have a lot of sun but in the winter months it can be rainy for a couple of days and I don´t know what the system will generate on those rainy days.
With regards to your bms take a look at this BMS: th-cam.com/video/4-TId2QcTH0/w-d-xo.html
Maybe a good one without MOSFETs but with a relay.
Keep the good videos coming.
Hi there, BMS still working, issue is still there, active balancer helping to fix that. I'm still deciding if it's worth to spend 1k$ for more reliable BMS or just live with it.
System in general works great, you could check the latest video to see the power production, in rainy days it's just about 3kWhs from my 4kw system.
You might want to check diysolarforum.com/, they talk about bms and other things quite some details. Maybe some users might be able to help solve your issue. Could be a setting issue, or your components are not working well together. I have no idea on how to help you at present.
@The Boss what is a bad idea?
@The Boss oh, would you recommend a site in that case?
@@asderven unfortunately I agree with The Boss, I tried to get info from there, but community blindly protecting this BMS by some reason, trying to find problem elsewhere, but not in BMS.
@@SolarEngineering Ah no worries, it is a free world, we go where we find help. I never liked chargery, plus not available in Pakistan. My options are either Daly or Batrium, that is why I can't help you out on your bms sadly. Daly I like, because lots of chinese battery vendors use them, so you can find support for it more easily, if you are communication with a battery vendor who has a technical team and understands the bms. The daly people themselves are not very helpful sadly.
@@SolarEngineering no you refuse to check other possible issues. If you really wanted help you would try other things as I suggested on forum. Never make assumptions and not prove them. If
What is your point? The cells are getting out of balance even if they sold you grade A there is no guarantee they are matched. You yourself say the unit will get hot when balancing 120 degrees 90 something is not 120 degrees it is obviously not balancing. Next time please be a little more professional and measure cells with a DVM . Have you checked the cells IR?
thanks for your input, I haven't check internal resistance, but this pack was assembled to 3p16s and stayed like this for 1 week (no BMS, no balancer connected). Then it was discharged and charged back to 3.6 and all cells was in 5mV diff. That tells me that pack itself is fine.
If I disconnect charge/discharge leave pack connected to BMS only, then it will go out of balance.
@@SolarEngineering it is always possible the BMS is bad but just leaving the pack sit for a week without any load will only give a small amount of info. Running current through them can change many things. One other thing after they say a week what we're the voltages of the cells you say they all started at 3.6 where were they after a week?
@@Craig_Parsons it was at 3.4V +-