Wanna donate half of the bank? 😛 Ugh. I can't wait to have my grid tie build. Great video! It's fun watching how each person does their build because everyone is different and use different equipment for them. I love the cabinet idea for the bank! That looks nice
It turns out that you and I have almost the exact types of equipment for our solar installations. I have 64 150 ah BLS made lifePo cells, I am using chargery BMS (although I have four of them, one for each 16s strings which are then connected in parallel) and I have the midnight classic charge controller. I also bought all this stuff in a similar time period around the beginning of the pandemic. I have a few comments and questions. First the comments. I notice you have not upgraded the Chargery to version 4.02 of the firmware. I recommend this as it adds A LOT of functionality including easier shunt calibration, big improvements and additional displays of State of Charge, Amp hour calculations etc., improved cell balancing including an indicator which shows which of the cells is being balanced at any moment and the expansion of the cell differential voltage measurement to 1 volt before alarm if so desired. Very importantly, the Chargery firmware upgrade now offers an internal resistance calculation for each cell. Don't know how accurate it is (dedicated instruments for this cost thousands of dollars) but it seems to give some insight. I am using the Chargery to give me my capacity measurements (with the much improved with version 4.02 firmware) and I also use a meter similar to the one you are using as a backup. The only difference I see there is a use a shunt with the backup meter whereas you are using a hall effect sensor. In my measurements the Chargery is more conservative in its capacity measurements by a few percent. I also see that the busbars you are using look to be pretty small. They seem to be the same ones I received and were different than the ones I saw in the online picture. I contacted BLS some months later and they told me that due to the pandemic they were out of the larger bus bars when I ordered my first set of batteries so they sent me new larger (3/4" X 1/16") copper busbars for free. I recommend this because the smaller bars won't put through much current although given that you are only running a 2kw inverter you should be fine with what you have. You can check out the ampacity specs for busbars here: www.copper.org/applications/electrical/busbar/busbar_ampacities.html Due to the pandemic and some indecision on my part as to whether I want to move to a new home, I have not actually put my system together or installed my solar panels but I have been testing sample sizes of the BLS lifePo batteries. As you know, it takes a long to time to charge and discharge a set of these batteries but in the testing I have done (about 14 of the 48 batteries I purchased) I have noticed some variation in cell performance with the result that the weak cells discharge and charge more quickly and put a premature end to my capacity measurements before I reach the expected capacity. I have seen cell differential voltages as high as several hundred millivolts on occasion. I also noted that at the end of your capacity test you had a cell differential voltage of 150 mV however all your cells seemed to be in or near the non-linear discharge region which likely means it did not have a big effect on you capacity measurement in my opinion. Because of the time involved in charging and discharging these batteries and my available equipment, I have been testing my batteries in a 12 volt configuration of 8 cells (1s2p I guess we call it). I put the cells in parallel hoping that a weakness in one would be compensated for by a strength in another. Whether that actually happens is something I don't know but it seemed like a good idea. In practice so far, I am still limited by variations in a given section of the battery (a 2 cell parallel grouping) being significantly weaker than the others causing me to lose about 17% of the theoretical capacity. I have only done 3 tests so far but will start another today. Bottom line on this is that although one may test individual cells and get results that meet the capacity specs, when you combine them with other cells their individual differences may degrade the expected combined capacity. That is what I am seeing so far anyway. Now for some questions: 1) You mentioned you are using active balancing. Given that the Chargery only has passive balancing, do you have a separate balancer and, if so, what is it? I am not a fan of passive balancing as it simply bleeds of energy from a cell those diminishing the overall capacity of the system. However, given that most balancing systems seem to have been built for much smaller batteries and, thus, offer very limited balancing currents, it is not likely to be too much of a problem over the short term. My thoughts are that balancing with such limited currents (although the chargery is much larger than most if you read the manual they sill comment on just how long it will take to have any effect on the balance) is almost pointless whether active or passive. However, if the batteries are going to sit for any length of time balancing could take effect and help (although it could hurt as well) and I like the idea of not throwing away my hard earned energy and thus would like to use active balancing. The problem is that 'real" active balancers with significant capability seem to be VERY expensive. Any thoughts on all this? 2) Looking at your battery picture, it seems you are set up with groups of 3 cells in parallel, and these groups in a series string of 16 (so called 16s3P ???). Is this correct? Any reason you chose to use this configuration? I am guessing you wanted to keep BMS costs down. By the way, on Will Prowse website he suggests constructing a configuration similar to yours in a bit different way. Instead of using a single busbar to go between each series connected group of three cell, he uses two thus ensuring a more even distribution of energy. I am considering both alternatives but I do admit that in a high current situation Will's suggestion is probably better. 3) Frankly, I am a bit bummed by the cell differences I am seeing so far. Maybe I am being to picky but if my testing does not start to provide better results than I will have to lose significant overall battery capacity. Given this and the additional losses of battery capacity if we only charge to, say, 90% and discharge to, say, 20%, I can see about 40 - 50% of my theoretical capacity disappearing before I even get started. A lot of folks on youtube test an individual cell and conclude that "all is well" but my tests show the problems begin when you combine the cells to form a battery. Cells have to be closely matched to get a good result. Given that it is such a hassle to characterize and match all the cells you receive when you purchase them (I don't think cell manufacturers do this at their factory because it would be rather expensive) I sometimes wonder if I would not have been better off buying a tesla powerwall (or some other assembled battery like battle born) as Tesla would have taken on all this burden and then some. Sure it would cost two or three times as much but it would save a lot of my time and I know Tesla puts a ton of effort into their custom BMS design etc. In any case, it is too late now. What do you think of all that I have written?
Hi Robert, I haven't yet updated to 4.02, I'm running on 4.00 (4.01?), planning to update firmware soon. I recorded a video about chargery bms, take a look: th-cam.com/video/cxtfpI0CelA/w-d-xo.html I have not very positive experience with chargery, in my case first BMS was constantly draining one cell, I even tried to replace most strongest cell in the pack with the weakest cell, then I still have the issue that the strongest cell becomes weakest, turned out that BMS was the culprit. So I just got new main module. And you are right, that having one weak in the pack will bring down capacity for the entire battery. So here is why I decided to install active balancer in parallel, here is a video for the active balancer that I'm using: th-cam.com/video/rQgOet7AH0I/w-d-xo.html (In my opinion it's a great addition for big batteries like we have). About busbars and cell config: I want to use only one BMS, because it's going to be costly to build 3 separate packs (in config 16s1p). I'm pushing in/out from this pack 3-3.5kw and I think this busbar size is ok for this ampacity. I understand that bigger is better, but again for my application it's enough. About capacity: remember when cell is charged to 3.65V and after few hours it will drop to ~3.5V and that doesn't mean that 30% of capacity is gone, it's still there, in my case I'm cycling cells 3v-3.45V (few mV +-) and I get about 80-90% of capacity. Tesla power wall is good, but then you'll have many many restrictions on what you can do whit that. And for me personally, it's a hobby. Thanks for your comment, let me know if you have any questions.
Robert, I have similar problem with my 280ah batteries with the voltage difference between cells, I installed the 5amp active balancer but still didn't help. It turned out that the batteries witch I bought as brand new weren't. I am fighting to get half of my money back because ebay doesn't want to help with it. Slow charge 560W it get balance within 35 miliamps but over that it get very crazy voltage difference, and the same for discharging. However, I got a second set brand new that has same voltage and resistance and can be charged/discharged at higher rate of 3kw with no more than 35 miliamps difference between cells. These cells don't have the capacity or quality than the Tesla cells but they are the best cheap alternative.
@@SolarEngineering Thanks for the replies. I have some frustrations with Chargery as well but several of them seemed much better with 4.02 firmware release. Still need to determine is balancing issues are better. However, since the balancing current is so small I don't think it makes much difference in any case. I may just leave it off all the time. I noticed the relays you are using are different than mine. Chargery is offering a new relay that seems to provide a slow ramp up of current when triggered on so you don't get the massive current surges into your inverter and solar charge controller that occurs on sudden reconnects. Seems to me that the net effect is similar to using the old solution from chargery of a separate relay with a resistor and a delay board. They sold that as a separate little unit. But I don't know if the new relay will also give a slow disconnect. I hear that many solar charge controllers do not like to be disconnected from the batteries while solar panels are still providing current and can burn out if that happens. One of the solar charge controllers mentioned with this problem is the Midnight classic. Personally, I do not understand this as a BMS will disconnect the batteries suddenly whenever the batteries are drained or charged to maximum. Should happen all the time I would think. Have you considered these issues or done anything to mitigate them? Do you use any kind of device to slow current surges? Are your relays from Chargery or somewhere else? I look forward to your replies.
@@robertgrant5895 for discharge relay I have installed delay board (th-cam.com/video/uelE9c7KixU/w-d-xo.html) for charge relay it's disconnecting solar array from charge controller (not battery from charge controller), so MPPT will be safe. Also voltage on charge controller set lower than disconnect voltage on BMS, so BMS will disconnect relay only in `emergency situation`. Same for discharge: inverters will stop draining battery at 48V (3V per cell), and BMS will disconnect relay when cell voltage will drop below 2.8V. In this case, I kind of have 2 layers of protection. I hope I explained it clearly, let me know if you have questions.
Great Job !! Thank you for the Video ! My Powerbank currently only has 7.6 KWh, but over time I will install even more - time will come> money will come 😂 Because of the positios of the cells, I stopped researching - every manufacturer says something different! I only know that there is an electrolyte in the cell and that there is an expansion valve at the top under the aluminum cover which is supposed to trigger if the cell overheats. therefore I decided to put the cell upright in any case. Whereby your way of installing the Powerwall is much more elegant and space-saving !! Keep it up - you definitely have my subscription and a 👍
I've started with exactly 7.6kWh and then expanded. Agree that cells in this position are much easier to install and take less space. thanks for the feedback.
Yeah there's an electrolyte...actually if you shake the cells you can feel the fluid. When my car was on fire and 3 cells bulged the valve never worked...still looks like new...they just expanded like balloons where hot like crazy. One got a hole on a side because hitting something and released an impressive heat (may be a flame but I wasnt there so) that burned my car. It didn't exploded though.
@@nek123 standing. I believe a nut pierced one of the cell (my bad). Eventually after like 10min that cell and the 2 nearby cells started to bulge. The one pierced is the one that I believe caught on fire due to the pierce. PS. The car was on fire due to the pierced cell (just to make it clear the cause of the fire) These cells have pro and cons (obviously)
You should add a switch to your active balancer so that it only run when your battery is full. :D If you leave it on when the battery is in a low state you can actually increase the imbalance.
so you went with 3P16S not 16S3P. it is important that you say what you hook up first and second. if you are putting together 16 cells in series and then hooking them up in parallel you have it backwards. but if you have your cells hooked up 3 cells in parallel and then those hooked up in series it is correct. you need to say what you are doing first. so is it 3P16S or 16S3P I would love to get you to clarify because it makes a huge difference to balancing your cells.
Hello SE - is this system configuration being used current day? …. and is it being used or can it be used realistically as a person primary source for energy in one’s home? Thanks for sharing your working - Glad I found your channel - you have a new subscriber and a new Like!
My solar array producing from 11kWh to 16kWh, this is about my daily house consumption. Солнечные панели дают примерно от 11kWh до 16kWh. Примерно столько же потребляет дом.
@@SolarEngineering Я пока собрал гибридную систему из 4кВт солнечных панелей и 5кВт часов литийионных. В планах сделать 100 кВт часов. Успехов тебе Человек;)
Thanks for these awesome videos. Let me preface this by saying I have zero knowledge in batteries and electrical. I’m fascinated by it though and took the dive into solar last year and purchased a 8.625 KWh solar array for my home with 25 LG 345W panels. I’d like to harvest the power that I’m sending back to the grid however the Tesla power walls are too expensive. Where do I start? I’m not sure id ever take the dive into it this deep but I’d love to if I can gain the knowledge to execute this safely. How can I experiment on a smaller level? Any tips or videos I should watch for starter knowledge? Thanks for your time.
Hi William, did you see this video: th-cam.com/video/XpPdbo1LXEg/w-d-xo.html It will give you an idea of the components you'll need, check this out and then we can discuss your application in more detail.
Are you not concerned about rhe weight on the bottom cells, or do you have a shelf between the cells? Also, love the toolbox look. Did you get that idea from DMI?
I wasn't concerned about bottom cell pressure, but many people commented that it needs to be addressed. So far works well. And yes, DMI inspired me to build a pack in this way.
How does this compare to Tesla Power Wall? At $7000. in parts is it worth it to DIY for $3000 savings, Also is this wall being vonnected to your house wiring as I didn't see any high capacity inverters in your system.
Tesla power wall is about 60% of the capacity of this pack. Additionally, it has software restrictions when/how you can charge it. Inverter was added later to my setup, I'm using SolArk unit (video about this inverter was released on this channel)
Could you explain what do you mean by load balancer? BMS is a device that will disconnect/connect batteries from load/charge when some event will happen (overvoltage/undervoltage/over current, etc).
@@SolarEngineering There is some balancer... sory load balancer is used in the web server. My question was... the BMS is not make also the balancer for charge/discarge ? Why you have 2 pieces ? one BMS and one Balancer ? Thanks again
@@MrDenisJoshua I have active balancer and BMS only because I have issues with BMS, it was (still?) draining some cells, causing unbalanced pack. Here is why I decided to add an additional balancer. Usually, a balancer not needed for new cells.
@@SolarEngineering Thanks for the answer. I just study in order to make exact S16P3 like you, but with 310 amp batts. I just discover the DiYBMS... do you know it please ? if yes, what do you thinks about ? Thanks a lot again
Thank you for your effort, It is much appreciated. I have two MX60's with 1600 AH AGM battery bank and 1580 Watts of Solar Panels on the roof of my bus. I use 180 to 200 AH over night. I'm thinking of changing to LiFePO4. I was thinking of disabling Absorb time and setting the Float voltage very close to the Absorb Voltage so when it reaches Absorb Voltage it will drop to Float and then to Bulk almost immediately under a load. I'm wondering how you setup your MX60 to charge Lithium Batteries. Thanks, Jerry
here is settings for the outback charge controller: th-cam.com/video/wY6eZK0Wcdg/w-d-xo.html I'm not sure if that's 100% correct, but it works without any issues.
Thanks man, your videos are very useful. We have a project currently offgrid working on diesel generators. It has daily demand 130Kwh three phase. What do you suggest for its sizing?. Do you think its safe to mount the batteries like that and it wont overheat?
It depends on what time of day you need this energy, if most kWh consumed at a day(sunlight) time, then solar could cover most of this power and you'll need a smaller battery bank. I would start by searching for an inverter that could do DC to three phase that is able to cover your needs and then think about battery configuration. About ventilation watch 1:35 For 130kWh battery you'll need about 145 280Ah cells. ~$19k as of today. Are you planning to build battery or just researching the potential cost?
Yes, I want to build the battery so we dont pay for diesel anymore. The demand is from 8 am to 12 am. However, the devices are mostly pumps. So it will have continuous charging and discharging. How long do you think these batteries last. Can it last as its advertised 4000 cycles?.
@@hazhanothman5458 pack itself is not going to be huge, you could install it with inverters in some small room and install split-system AC, it will require a very little amount of energy to keep it cold.
How many kWh did you run through them already? Is there any capacity fade? My concern is that bottom cells receive maximum pressure and top cells are not compressed at all. But at $300 per kWh you paid a lot for reject cells from China. In 2015 I paid $200/kWh for Tesla model S modules, about same price for 34 kWh.
It's hard to estimate kWh in/out from pack, but roughly ~1,5mWh. Could you explain why do I need to compress cells? In this pack I'm using grade A cells. Curious to see your pack.
How's your system now? Im build a slightly bigger pack soon, 16S 3P 300Ah per cell. Any tips besides the one you gave on the previous video would be appreciated.
Very interesting video. Now that lithium batteries are becoming cheaper they are becoming cost effective for static as well as mobile installations. Last year I installed 48kwh of lead acid batteries for an off grid installation (cost £4200, about $5000). As I limit discharge to 50% the usable capacity is fairly similar to your setup. One question and observation. Your monitor still showed 100% at the end of discharge. Why was that? I use the same monitor as a backup capacity reference for my Victron system. Over time it loses accuracy compared with the Victron monitor. If this is your only capacity indication be careful to monitor system voltage as well as indicated capacity.
Yes, lithium getting more and more affordable, also I like size/kw of lithium batteries, they are much more compact. I connected negative wire directly to pack avoiding BMS shunt, here is why BMS didn't recalculate state of charge. check 6:32
So probably a stupid question - but what how you actually accomplished with this type of system? I can see that you may be able to "contribute" 2KW to your energy consumption (with the batteries providing same 2K energy when it dark) - and reduce your power bill that way. But it seems like a very costly investment will a long payback. And how many charge cycles are these batteries good for? I'm sure I'm missing some key detail here. My son-in-law put in a 5KW system with no batteries for similar money - actually a bit cheaper with his credits - whatever surplus he generates Duke Energy buys back and credits him on a 1 to 1 basis- payback for him is like 4 or 5 years - without batteries and inverters (granted that each panel has a DC to 220 inverter). His biggest disadvantage is not being able to unplug from the grid - his panels needs to see utility power - but as reliable as power is in this country not sure that a big deal. What am I missing here?
With battery, we seek energy dependency from utilities comp and maybe get the most of our solar production. Not all things can be calculate payback period.
LiFePo4 good for about 3000 cycles, could be more or less depending on conditions how batteries are used. Payback calculation will be too specific to the location where batteries installed. Also, batteries give the ability to power the house when a power outage happens. Additionally it's my hobby :)
Thanks. Please don't take my question as any sort of criticism. I think the technology is super kool - and I would really enjoy having a system like that. At night do you draw any power from the batteries to supplement your load from the utility? If so how many watts? If I could stand up something similar to what you have for under $4K than that would pique my interest. Having something that could provide up to 4KW continuous power for a reasonable investment would be very attractive.
@@romanykemp9042 yes, at night I'm using power from batteries if any left from the day. I have 2x2kW inverters (real output 3.8kW). Here is rough calculation what similar system would cost: - 15kW of batteries (280Ah * 16) + bms + wires = $2300 - solar panels 12 panels Canadian solar 320W + mounting system = $2300 + $1500 - inverters grid tie with limiter 2pcs = $700 - related items (breakers/fuses/distribution box/etc) = $400 You probably could save some $ on solar panels. I'm working on the video to show my full setup with a schematic diagram / and price for each component. Planning to release it soon.
Hi, does this battery still work well for you? I am a little worried to use a parallel setup incase it will be hard to notice if a battery within the 3 in a group have reduced capacity or is faulty. and also if they become unbalanced easier when there are several in parallel. Thanks
Hi, yes battery still works well. I do see some cells imbalance at high and low cell voltage (3.55V). However active balancer doing a good job to equalize cells.
You say that you have 155Ah batteries, but the Link below is for 280Ah batteries. Do you ordered them? Do you mean that from the deller declared 280Ah only 155Ah are usable?
Looks like set I'd love. I have aspirations to live off grid in 10 years time when I retire to the Caribbean. I know nothing about electrics or electronics, but would love this battery set up to run 3 bedroom house with two x 2 bedroom apartments above and two swimming pools. So I guesstimate I need 60 kW of battery power for mini split airconditioners and ceiling fans plus pool and borehole well pump and water tank pump. Could that work and also with all in one 5 kw mpp solar inverter. Can these mpp' charge such a large bank if I have the mpp wired in parallel with 4 units, plus programmed to charge at the .15 rate mentioned. Any help with these calculations would be much appreciated.
Hi there. 5kW array if it's located correctly in a sunny day will produce a day about 20-25kW a day. You'll need to estimate approximate usage in kWh and then you could size system. You could use all-in-one inverterts/chargers and stack them in parallel to get desired AC power output. Last time I looked at all-in-one, the best I found is Sol ark 12k, it's definitely expensive, but one unit should cover all needs.
SolarEngineering Hi There. Thanks for quick reply. I estimate up to maximum 70kwh per day across the three properties, but would like a 30kWh contingency buffer.
@@lennieadi it's going to be a cool system. a rough estimate of items you'll need: 38 panels 370W if we take 1 sol ark inverter it allows 13kW PV input, that should be enough to cover 70kWh per day for batteries, you could potentially use 16S4P 280Ah cells that will bring you to ~57kWh battery bank.
@@SolarEngineering That sounds awesome. Thank you solar engineering. I wish I could build now with you now over video guidance. That would be awesome if I were in a position to start but it’s good to get an idea early as to potential size of system and costs. Very helpful. Thank you. Although I have the silly temptation to build battery but I can’t store it. Drat. 😠😄. Keep up the stirling work dear n man. As soon as saw your video on the 23kwh battery build, I had to subscribe immediately.
I can do a rough estimate: Let's calculate DC to AC efficiency as 90%, then we have 51.3kWh of usable AC power. 51.3kWh / 6kW (6AC*1kW) = 8 hours 30 minutes non stop run for all ACs. Depends on climate AC will run 50% of the time (I mean compressor running time), so the battery will last longer than 8:30. It's a rough estimate, but it will give you an idea of where to start.
SolarEngineering hi solar engineer. That's awesome. Thank you ever so much for calculating this for me. I now have a clear idea a of what I can accomplish with a 12 kw inverter system ND 14-15 kw of slater array. Great stuff man. 👏
@@SolarEngineering is that only charging the batteries or charging while powering stuff in your house too? I'm curious because I just recently bought an electric car and on the average day I use about 20kWh of charge from the cars battery so I was thinking since I cant afford to go solar on my whole house yet what if I can build a system dedicated to charging my car. I thought that if I had storage of around 30 to 40 kWh and the ability to recharge through out the day and then I can charge the car during the night with a little extra capacity just in case and also for efficiency loss I could mostly drive my car off the sun. I know there will be days it wont always work but for the most part it would. it usually takes roughly 4 hours to charge when its at 50% (give or take) the charger draws 32 amps@240 v but the closer to full it gets the amps taper down. Do you think this would be possible to do for a fraction of the cost of a whole house system or would it be about as large as a whole house system?
@@ChrisMonopoli To get 30kWh from solar panels you'll need about 16 300w solar panels installed. For batteries, 32 280Ah cells will give you ~28kWh storage. You could calculate how much its going to cost. A system like that is going to be the same as whole-house system.
@@SolarEngineering So it takes two days to charge your batteries to full, and only one small space heater will use all of the usable energy stored in only 15 hours of use..... is my understanding correct? Thanks for the video upload.
@@privateman1850 for my system it's about right. In summer I'm getting ~17kWh in winter about ~10kWh, so charging could be faster or slower depending on the time of year.
doing the 3p16s really isn't a good way. the weakest cell stops each parallel pack. I am doing 4 banks of 16s with 4 jk bms which has 2 amp balancer built in. I have 56kw of storage with 4 jk bms all cost $8000. saying each cell needs its own bms connection. I see so many doing it your way and that will lower your life cycles big time as the weakest cell will be over worked.
I was thinking about the same. definitely it would be a bit more expensive (+500)but it can prolong battery life. Is this 2 amp JK bms good? 2 amps balancig is sufficient? just started to learn more about battery systems so sorry such as questions.
@@dc1544 So it is necessary to perform manual balance before connecting to active balancer and also repeat it each 6 months? I am just curious if this manual balancing is done also on some battery system automaticaly (like Luna or pylontech).
@@MB-vi3yg Mine balances every time it reaches 3.4 volts on cells. so about 85% In winter it usually wont hit that. in spring/summer and fall it does daily. Most BMS do balance at 150MA .150A. My JK does 2 amps. so after couple hours they are mostly perfect balance. Once they stay pretty close. if a cell doesnt then check nuts and make sure they are torqued right. Or maybe a cell is bad.
Стоимость этих ячеек на тао-бао примерно 40 долларов за штуку. 48 ячеек 1920 долларов и доставка морем около 5 долларов за кг. веса. вес одной ячейки 3кг. тоесть 145 кг. вес всех 48-ми, стоимость доставки 720 долларов. итого стоимость всей батареи с доставкой 2640 долларов. 200 долларов стоит металлический инструментальный ящик такого размера. 135 долларов стоит ант БМС (намного круче, чем та, что на видео) на 300 ампер, Показометр стоит 16 долларов. Какие 7 саузен долларс??? Ты переплатил нереально! Пока вы будете кормить перекупов с али, пока и Китай будет ставить весь мир раком. А вообще. - респект, за то, чем ты занимаешься. Многие и доллар не потратят на сохранение экологии. А ты кучу денег потратил, хоть и безмозгло, но не суть.
Seen your previous video on building the powerbank, now I see this and clicked Like.
thanks )
Wanna donate half of the bank? 😛 Ugh. I can't wait to have my grid tie build. Great video! It's fun watching how each person does their build because everyone is different and use different equipment for them. I love the cabinet idea for the bank! That looks nice
Very interesting , thanks for making a video and showing
you are welcome!
It turns out that you and I have almost the exact types of equipment for our solar installations. I have 64 150 ah BLS made lifePo cells, I am using chargery BMS (although I have four of them, one for each 16s strings which are then connected in parallel) and I have the midnight classic charge controller. I also bought all this stuff in a similar time period around the beginning of the pandemic. I have a few comments and questions. First the comments. I notice you have not upgraded the Chargery to version 4.02 of the firmware. I recommend this as it adds A LOT of functionality including easier shunt calibration, big improvements and additional displays of State of Charge, Amp hour calculations etc., improved cell balancing including an indicator which shows which of the cells is being balanced at any moment and the expansion of the cell differential voltage measurement to 1 volt before alarm if so desired. Very importantly, the Chargery firmware upgrade now offers an internal resistance calculation for each cell. Don't know how accurate it is (dedicated instruments for this cost thousands of dollars) but it seems to give some insight. I am using the Chargery to give me my capacity measurements (with the much improved with version 4.02 firmware) and I also use a meter similar to the one you are using as a backup. The only difference I see there is a use a shunt with the backup meter whereas you are using a hall effect sensor. In my measurements the Chargery is more conservative in its capacity measurements by a few percent.
I also see that the busbars you are using look to be pretty small. They seem to be the same ones I received and were different than the ones I saw in the online picture. I contacted BLS some months later and they told me that due to the pandemic they were out of the larger bus bars when I ordered my first set of batteries so they sent me new larger (3/4" X 1/16") copper busbars for free. I recommend this because the smaller bars won't put through much current although given that you are only running a 2kw inverter you should be fine with what you have. You can check out the ampacity specs for busbars here:
www.copper.org/applications/electrical/busbar/busbar_ampacities.html
Due to the pandemic and some indecision on my part as to whether I want to move to a new home, I have not actually put my system together or installed my solar panels but I have been testing sample sizes of the BLS lifePo batteries. As you know, it takes a long to time to charge and discharge a set of these batteries but in the testing I have done (about 14 of the 48 batteries I purchased) I have noticed some variation in cell performance with the result that the weak cells discharge and charge more quickly and put a premature end to my capacity measurements before I reach the expected capacity. I have seen cell differential voltages as high as several hundred millivolts on occasion. I also noted that at the end of your capacity test you had a cell differential voltage of 150 mV however all your cells seemed to be in or near the non-linear discharge region which likely means it did not have a big effect on you capacity measurement in my opinion.
Because of the time involved in charging and discharging these batteries and my available equipment, I have been testing my batteries in a 12 volt configuration of 8 cells (1s2p I guess we call it). I put the cells in parallel hoping that a weakness in one would be compensated for by a strength in another. Whether that actually happens is something I don't know but it seemed like a good idea. In practice so far, I am still limited by variations in a given section of the battery (a 2 cell parallel grouping) being significantly weaker than the others causing me to lose about 17% of the theoretical capacity. I have only done 3 tests so far but will start another today. Bottom line on this is that although one may test individual cells and get results that meet the capacity specs, when you combine them with other cells their individual differences may degrade the expected combined capacity. That is what I am seeing so far anyway.
Now for some questions:
1) You mentioned you are using active balancing. Given that the Chargery only has passive balancing, do you have a separate balancer and, if so, what is it? I am not a fan of passive balancing as it simply bleeds of energy from a cell those diminishing the overall capacity of the system. However, given that most balancing systems seem to have been built for much smaller batteries and, thus, offer very limited balancing currents, it is not likely to be too much of a problem over the short term. My thoughts are that balancing with such limited currents (although the chargery is much larger than most if you read the manual they sill comment on just how long it will take to have any effect on the balance) is almost pointless whether active or passive. However, if the batteries are going to sit for any length of time balancing could take effect and help (although it could hurt as well) and I like the idea of not throwing away my hard earned energy and thus would like to use active balancing. The problem is that 'real" active balancers with significant capability seem to be VERY expensive. Any thoughts on all this?
2) Looking at your battery picture, it seems you are set up with groups of 3 cells in parallel, and these groups in a series string of 16 (so called 16s3P ???). Is this correct? Any reason you chose to use this configuration? I am guessing you wanted to keep BMS costs down. By the way, on Will Prowse website he suggests constructing a configuration similar to yours in a bit different way. Instead of using a single busbar to go between each series connected group of three cell, he uses two thus ensuring a more even distribution of energy. I am considering both alternatives but I do admit that in a high current situation Will's suggestion is probably better.
3) Frankly, I am a bit bummed by the cell differences I am seeing so far. Maybe I am being to picky but if my testing does not start to provide better results than I will have to lose significant overall battery capacity. Given this and the additional losses of battery capacity if we only charge to, say, 90% and discharge to, say, 20%, I can see about 40 - 50% of my theoretical capacity disappearing before I even get started. A lot of folks on youtube test an individual cell and conclude that "all is well" but my tests show the problems begin when you combine the cells to form a battery. Cells have to be closely matched to get a good result. Given that it is such a hassle to characterize and match all the cells you receive when you purchase them (I don't think cell manufacturers do this at their factory because it would be rather expensive) I sometimes wonder if I would not have been better off buying a tesla powerwall (or some other assembled battery like battle born) as Tesla would have taken on all this burden and then some. Sure it would cost two or three times as much but it would save a lot of my time and I know Tesla puts a ton of effort into their custom BMS design etc. In any case, it is too late now. What do you think of all that I have written?
Hi Robert, I haven't yet updated to 4.02, I'm running on 4.00 (4.01?), planning to update firmware soon.
I recorded a video about chargery bms, take a look: th-cam.com/video/cxtfpI0CelA/w-d-xo.html
I have not very positive experience with chargery, in my case first BMS was constantly draining one cell, I even tried to replace most strongest cell in the pack with the weakest cell, then I still have the issue that the strongest cell becomes weakest, turned out that BMS was the culprit. So I just got new main module.
And you are right, that having one weak in the pack will bring down capacity for the entire battery. So here is why I decided to install active balancer in parallel, here is a video for the active balancer that I'm using: th-cam.com/video/rQgOet7AH0I/w-d-xo.html (In my opinion it's a great addition for big batteries like we have).
About busbars and cell config: I want to use only one BMS, because it's going to be costly to build 3 separate packs (in config 16s1p). I'm pushing in/out from this pack 3-3.5kw and I think this busbar size is ok for this ampacity. I understand that bigger is better, but again for my application it's enough.
About capacity: remember when cell is charged to 3.65V and after few hours it will drop to ~3.5V and that doesn't mean that 30% of capacity is gone, it's still there, in my case I'm cycling cells 3v-3.45V (few mV +-) and I get about 80-90% of capacity.
Tesla power wall is good, but then you'll have many many restrictions on what you can do whit that. And for me personally, it's a hobby.
Thanks for your comment, let me know if you have any questions.
Robert, I have similar problem with my 280ah batteries with the voltage difference between cells, I installed the 5amp active balancer but still didn't help. It turned out that the batteries witch I bought as brand new weren't. I am fighting to get half of my money back because ebay doesn't want to help with it. Slow charge 560W it get balance within 35 miliamps but over that it get very crazy voltage difference, and the same for discharging. However, I got a second set brand new that has same voltage and resistance and can be charged/discharged at higher rate of 3kw with no more than 35 miliamps difference between cells. These cells don't have the capacity or quality than the Tesla cells but they are the best cheap alternative.
@@neliosamch3195 Hi Neilo, Where did you get your new 280 Ah cells?
@@SolarEngineering Thanks for the replies. I have some frustrations with Chargery as well but several of them seemed much better with 4.02 firmware release. Still need to determine is balancing issues are better. However, since the balancing current is so small I don't think it makes much difference in any case. I may just leave it off all the time.
I noticed the relays you are using are different than mine. Chargery is offering a new relay that seems to provide a slow ramp up of current when triggered on so you don't get the massive current surges into your inverter and solar charge controller that occurs on sudden reconnects. Seems to me that the net effect is similar to using the old solution from chargery of a separate relay with a resistor and a delay board. They sold that as a separate little unit. But I don't know if the new relay will also give a slow disconnect. I hear that many solar charge controllers do not like to be disconnected from the batteries while solar panels are still providing current and can burn out if that happens. One of the solar charge controllers mentioned with this problem is the Midnight classic. Personally, I do not understand this as a BMS will disconnect the batteries suddenly whenever the batteries are drained or charged to maximum. Should happen all the time I would think. Have you considered these issues or done anything to mitigate them? Do you use any kind of device to slow current surges? Are your relays from Chargery or somewhere else? I look forward to your replies.
@@robertgrant5895 for discharge relay I have installed delay board (th-cam.com/video/uelE9c7KixU/w-d-xo.html)
for charge relay it's disconnecting solar array from charge controller (not battery from charge controller), so MPPT will be safe.
Also voltage on charge controller set lower than disconnect voltage on BMS, so BMS will disconnect relay only in `emergency situation`.
Same for discharge: inverters will stop draining battery at 48V (3V per cell), and BMS will disconnect relay when cell voltage will drop below 2.8V.
In this case, I kind of have 2 layers of protection.
I hope I explained it clearly, let me know if you have questions.
Thank you to show us, GOOD JOB.
My pleasure!
Great Job !! Thank you for the Video !
My Powerbank currently only has 7.6 KWh, but over time I will install even more - time will come> money will come 😂
Because of the positios of the cells, I stopped researching - every manufacturer says something different! I only know that there is an electrolyte in the cell and that there is an expansion valve at the top under the aluminum cover which is supposed to trigger if the cell overheats. therefore I decided to put the cell upright in any case. Whereby your way of installing the Powerwall is much more elegant and space-saving !! Keep it up - you definitely have my subscription and a 👍
I've started with exactly 7.6kWh and then expanded. Agree that cells in this position are much easier to install and take less space.
thanks for the feedback.
Yeah there's an electrolyte...actually if you shake the cells you can feel the fluid.
When my car was on fire and 3 cells bulged the valve never worked...still looks like new...they just expanded like balloons where hot like crazy. One got a hole on a side because hitting something and released an impressive heat (may be a flame but I wasnt there so) that burned my car. It didn't exploded though.
@@shinosg-wiz4619 Interesting !! Are your cells standing or lying? Or did they stand or lay in front of the fire?
@@nek123 standing. I believe a nut pierced one of the cell (my bad). Eventually after like 10min that cell and the 2 nearby cells started to bulge. The one pierced is the one that I believe caught on fire due to the pierce.
PS. The car was on fire due to the pierced cell (just to make it clear the cause of the fire)
These cells have pro and cons (obviously)
Good job, turned out great
Well explained!
Man this is so expensive bank
Thank u a bunch .
Hi there, check video at 2:30
Excellent system. You explained very throughly with lots of examples for improvement. Thank you for sharing your experience.😃
You should add a switch to your active balancer so that it only run when your battery is full. :D If you leave it on when the battery is in a low state you can actually increase the imbalance.
Thank you
so you went with 3P16S not 16S3P. it is important that you say what you hook up first and second. if you are putting together 16 cells in series and then hooking them up in parallel you have it backwards. but if you have your cells hooked up 3 cells in parallel and then those hooked up in series it is correct. you need to say what you are doing first. so is it 3P16S or 16S3P I would love to get you to clarify because it makes a huge difference to balancing your cells.
Массив впечатляет , сборка могучая, обзор очень интересный.
Very interesting video.
thanks!
Thank you.
Well done on this video. Your content is excellent. Keep it up. You will do well. I am at a point where I will be able to do something similar.
thanks for the feedback.
Great video, thanks for putting this together
thanks!
Glue the foam to the door
Great job. Congrats
thanks!
Very Great Job !
thanks!
Great video, well done and thankyou most helpful
thanks for the feedback.
Those battery connections are really unexplainable for beginners like me Haha... 😄👍
it's not so complicated, check video where I'm building this pack.
@@SolarEngineering Oh common Sir I know but still learning & I want to build a big powerwall like you guys 😊👍
Yes sistema akb LiFePo4.
👍🏻great video
thank you!
Hello SE - is this system configuration being used current day? …. and is it being used or can it be used realistically as a person primary source for energy in one’s home?
Thanks for sharing your working - Glad I found your channel - you have a new subscriber and a new Like!
Batteries aren't needed so big closer to the poles because you will be charging from mains unless you have stacks of panels.
Great video. Battery is a beast. Thanks for sharing!
thanks!
Очень круто и очень понятно! Отличная работа и все чОтко))
Покажи пожалуйста свои солнечные панели, и для чего тебе такая мощность? Майнинг?))
My solar array producing from 11kWh to 16kWh, this is about my daily house consumption.
Солнечные панели дают примерно от 11kWh до 16kWh. Примерно столько же потребляет дом.
@@SolarEngineering Я пока собрал гибридную систему из 4кВт солнечных панелей и 5кВт часов литийионных. В планах сделать 100 кВт часов. Успехов тебе Человек;)
@@durny21 100 кВтч большая батарейка получится!
спасибо
@@SolarEngineering я использую литий от лифа. Очень удобно и относительно недорого
Thanks for these awesome videos. Let me preface this by saying I have zero knowledge in batteries and electrical. I’m fascinated by it though and took the dive into solar last year and purchased a 8.625 KWh solar array for my home with 25 LG 345W panels. I’d like to harvest the power that I’m sending back to the grid however the Tesla power walls are too expensive.
Where do I start? I’m not sure id ever take the dive into it this deep but I’d love to if I can gain the knowledge to execute this safely. How can I experiment on a smaller level? Any tips or videos I should watch for starter knowledge? Thanks for your time.
Hi William, did you see this video: th-cam.com/video/XpPdbo1LXEg/w-d-xo.html
It will give you an idea of the components you'll need, check this out and then we can discuss your application in more detail.
Can you please make a video on this LiFePO4 battery bank, explaining the BMS set up and why this particular brand ?
I recorded a video of how I built this pack (link in description).
Here is BMS functionality review: th-cam.com/video/7ggsGRL8VC0/w-d-xo.html
I you try to charge them at 3.65v and discharged them to 2.55v? You will get more capacity like close to 28-29kw
Are you not concerned about rhe weight on the bottom cells, or do you have a shelf between the cells? Also, love the toolbox look. Did you get that idea from DMI?
I wasn't concerned about bottom cell pressure, but many people commented that it needs to be addressed. So far works well. And yes, DMI inspired me to build a pack in this way.
How does this compare to Tesla Power Wall? At $7000. in parts is it worth it to DIY for $3000 savings, Also is this wall being vonnected to your house wiring as I didn't see any high capacity inverters in your system.
Tesla power wall is about 60% of the capacity of this pack. Additionally, it has software restrictions when/how you can charge it.
Inverter was added later to my setup, I'm using SolArk unit (video about this inverter was released on this channel)
Sorry if I ask a stupid question...
But the BMS is not something that make also Load Balancer ?
Do we need a BMS and also Load Balancer ?
Thanks a lot
Could you explain what do you mean by load balancer?
BMS is a device that will disconnect/connect batteries from load/charge when some event will happen (overvoltage/undervoltage/over current, etc).
@@SolarEngineering There is some balancer... sory load balancer is used in the web server.
My question was... the BMS is not make also the balancer for charge/discarge ?
Why you have 2 pieces ? one BMS and one Balancer ?
Thanks again
@@MrDenisJoshua I have active balancer and BMS only because I have issues with BMS, it was (still?) draining some cells, causing unbalanced pack. Here is why I decided to add an additional balancer. Usually, a balancer not needed for new cells.
@@SolarEngineering Thanks for the answer.
I just study in order to make exact S16P3 like you, but with 310 amp batts.
I just discover the DiYBMS... do you know it please ? if yes, what do you thinks about ?
Thanks a lot again
@@MrDenisJoshua I'm not familiar with DiYBMS. Curious about 310Ah cells, what is the brand?
Thank you for your effort, It is much appreciated.
I have two MX60's with 1600 AH AGM battery bank and 1580 Watts of Solar Panels on the roof of my bus. I use 180 to 200 AH over night. I'm thinking of changing to LiFePO4. I was thinking of disabling Absorb time and setting the Float voltage very close to the Absorb Voltage so when it reaches Absorb Voltage it will drop to Float and then to Bulk almost immediately under a load. I'm wondering how you setup your MX60 to charge Lithium Batteries. Thanks, Jerry
here is settings for the outback charge controller:
th-cam.com/video/wY6eZK0Wcdg/w-d-xo.html
I'm not sure if that's 100% correct, but it works without any issues.
@@SolarEngineering Thank You my friend. Jerry
Hi,
In your Powerwall, what is your Low Voltage Disconnect settings on Battery?
49V on inverter. (~3.06V per cell)
Need to be compressed?how do u active balance the batteries?
You think I can do 16S4P of 3.2v 280AH Lifepo4 batteries? I only want 1 super high end BMS with active balancer to manage all my batteries.
my bank works well, however cells are going out of balance at 90%+ SOC, so active balancer recommended to be installed.
Stacking them would place too much weight on the bottom cell.
Nice work - which BMS did you use ?
chargery bms
Thanks man, your videos are very useful. We have a project currently offgrid working on diesel generators. It has daily demand 130Kwh three phase. What do you suggest for its sizing?. Do you think its safe to mount the batteries like that and it wont overheat?
It depends on what time of day you need this energy, if most kWh consumed at a day(sunlight) time, then solar could cover most of this power and you'll need a smaller battery bank.
I would start by searching for an inverter that could do DC to three phase that is able to cover your needs and then think about battery configuration.
About ventilation watch 1:35
For 130kWh battery you'll need about 145 280Ah cells. ~$19k as of today.
Are you planning to build battery or just researching the potential cost?
Yes, I want to build the battery so we dont pay for diesel anymore. The demand is from 8 am to 12 am. However, the devices are mostly pumps. So it will have continuous charging and discharging. How long do you think these batteries last. Can it last as its advertised 4000 cycles?.
My most concern is the heating of the battery. Its gonna get quite warm in summer here.
@@hazhanothman5458 I don't have much experience with LiFePo4 yet to know if it's going to last 4000. But I hope for it :)
@@hazhanothman5458 pack itself is not going to be huge, you could install it with inverters in some small room and install split-system AC, it will require a very little amount of energy to keep it cold.
How many kWh did you run through them already? Is there any capacity fade? My concern is that bottom cells receive maximum pressure and top cells are not compressed at all. But at $300 per kWh you paid a lot for reject cells from China. In 2015 I paid $200/kWh for Tesla model S modules, about same price for 34 kWh.
It's hard to estimate kWh in/out from pack, but roughly ~1,5mWh.
Could you explain why do I need to compress cells?
In this pack I'm using grade A cells.
Curious to see your pack.
How's your system now? Im build a slightly bigger pack soon, 16S 3P 300Ah per cell. Any tips besides the one you gave on the previous video would be appreciated.
works well, nothing additional at this point.
Very interesting video. Now that lithium batteries are becoming cheaper they are becoming cost effective for static as well as mobile installations. Last year I installed 48kwh of lead acid batteries for an off grid installation (cost £4200, about $5000). As I limit discharge to 50% the usable capacity is fairly similar to your setup. One question and observation. Your monitor still showed 100% at the end of discharge. Why was that? I use the same monitor as a backup capacity reference for my Victron system. Over time it loses accuracy compared with the Victron monitor. If this is your only capacity indication be careful to monitor system voltage as well as indicated capacity.
Yes, lithium getting more and more affordable, also I like size/kw of lithium batteries, they are much more compact.
I connected negative wire directly to pack avoiding BMS shunt, here is why BMS didn't recalculate state of charge. check 6:32
So probably a stupid question - but what how you actually accomplished with this type of system? I can see that you may be able to "contribute" 2KW to your energy consumption (with the batteries providing same 2K energy when it dark) - and reduce your power bill that way. But it seems like a very costly investment will a long payback. And how many charge cycles are these batteries good for? I'm sure I'm missing some key detail here. My son-in-law put in a 5KW system with no batteries for similar money - actually a bit cheaper with his credits - whatever surplus he generates Duke Energy buys back and credits him on a 1 to 1 basis- payback for him is like 4 or 5 years - without batteries and inverters (granted that each panel has a DC to 220 inverter). His biggest disadvantage is not being able to unplug from the grid - his panels needs to see utility power - but as reliable as power is in this country not sure that a big deal. What am I missing here?
With battery, we seek energy dependency from utilities comp and maybe get the most of our solar production. Not all things can be calculate payback period.
LiFePo4 good for about 3000 cycles, could be more or less depending on conditions how batteries are used.
Payback calculation will be too specific to the location where batteries installed.
Also, batteries give the ability to power the house when a power outage happens.
Additionally it's my hobby :)
Thanks. Please don't take my question as any sort of criticism. I think the technology is super kool - and I would really enjoy having a system like that. At night do you draw any power from the batteries to supplement your load from the utility? If so how many watts? If I could stand up something similar to what you have for under $4K than that would pique my interest. Having something that could provide up to 4KW continuous power for a reasonable investment would be very attractive.
@@romanykemp9042 yes, at night I'm using power from batteries if any left from the day. I have 2x2kW inverters (real output 3.8kW).
Here is rough calculation what similar system would cost:
- 15kW of batteries (280Ah * 16) + bms + wires = $2300
- solar panels 12 panels Canadian solar 320W + mounting system = $2300 + $1500
- inverters grid tie with limiter 2pcs = $700
- related items (breakers/fuses/distribution box/etc) = $400
You probably could save some $ on solar panels.
I'm working on the video to show my full setup with a schematic diagram / and price for each component. Planning to release it soon.
@@SolarEngineering A schematic would be great. Thanks for pulling this together...
Hi, does this battery still work well for you? I am a little worried to use a parallel setup incase it will be hard to notice if a battery within the 3 in a group have reduced capacity or is faulty. and also if they become unbalanced easier when there are several in parallel. Thanks
Hi, yes battery still works well. I do see some cells imbalance at high and low cell voltage (3.55V). However active balancer doing a good job to equalize cells.
You say that you have 155Ah batteries, but the Link below is for 280Ah batteries. Do you ordered them? Do you mean that from the deller declared 280Ah only 155Ah are usable?
If you watch the video, the link for batteries is unrelated to this build being tested.
All links for this build in the original video (link in description)
please watch from 2:30 to see why a link to 280Ah posted here.
Looks like set I'd love. I have aspirations to live off grid in 10 years time when I retire to the Caribbean. I know nothing about electrics or electronics, but would love this battery set up to run 3 bedroom house with two x 2 bedroom apartments above and two swimming pools. So I guesstimate I need 60 kW of battery power for mini split airconditioners and ceiling fans plus pool and borehole well pump and water tank pump. Could that work and also with all in one 5 kw mpp solar inverter. Can these mpp' charge such a large bank if I have the mpp wired in parallel with 4 units, plus programmed to charge at the .15 rate mentioned. Any help with these calculations would be much appreciated.
Hi there.
5kW array if it's located correctly in a sunny day will produce a day about 20-25kW a day.
You'll need to estimate approximate usage in kWh and then you could size system.
You could use all-in-one inverterts/chargers and stack them in parallel to get desired AC power output.
Last time I looked at all-in-one, the best I found is Sol ark 12k, it's definitely expensive, but one unit should cover all needs.
SolarEngineering Hi There. Thanks for quick reply. I estimate up to maximum 70kwh per day across the three properties, but would like a 30kWh contingency buffer.
@@lennieadi it's going to be a cool system.
a rough estimate of items you'll need:
38 panels 370W
if we take 1 sol ark inverter it allows 13kW PV input, that should be enough to cover 70kWh per day
for batteries, you could potentially use 16S4P 280Ah cells that will bring you to ~57kWh battery bank.
@@SolarEngineering That sounds awesome.
Thank you solar engineering. I wish I could build now with you now over video guidance. That would be awesome if I were in a position to start but it’s good to get an idea early as to potential size of system and costs. Very helpful. Thank you. Although I have the silly temptation to build battery but I can’t store it. Drat. 😠😄. Keep up the stirling work dear n man. As soon as saw your video on the 23kwh battery build, I had to subscribe immediately.
@@lennieadi I would love to participate in the building system that you are sizing, it's going to be a really exciting project.
thanks for feedback.
Hello, can you tell me what difference does a 16s 3p of 100ah have, with a 16s 1p of 300ah? Thank you so much
I would go with 300Ah cells, much easier to assemble.
I am looking to build 16x280Ah cells I wanted to know what BMS would be best for this?
I'm using chargery BMS in my system, going to test another BMS soon (using this BMS in last video: th-cam.com/video/X_ucHHnh4Ik/w-d-xo.html)
What part of the country do you live? Sometimes I can tell by accent, but not in your case, ha-ha, im in N.W. NC
In my case I guess you could tell which part of the world I am :)
Originally from Belarus, now living in California.
do you top or bottom bleeding down the batteries?
if you mean balancing, then it's top balanced.
@@SolarEngineering OK i have ordered 32 cells and i don't have the balancing machine
So how many hours could a 57kwh battery bank run 1000w x 6 air conditioning units before recharging is needed please?
I can do a rough estimate:
Let's calculate DC to AC efficiency as 90%, then we have 51.3kWh of usable AC power.
51.3kWh / 6kW (6AC*1kW) = 8 hours 30 minutes non stop run for all ACs.
Depends on climate AC will run 50% of the time (I mean compressor running time), so the battery will last longer than 8:30.
It's a rough estimate, but it will give you an idea of where to start.
SolarEngineering hi solar engineer. That's awesome. Thank you ever so much for calculating this for me. I now have a clear idea a of what I can accomplish with a 12 kw inverter system ND 14-15 kw of slater array. Great stuff man. 👏
How long does it take your solar system to charge that battery setup once its fully discharged?
Right now my panels producing about 20-22kWh a day, so it will take about 1.2 days to fully charge.
@@SolarEngineering is that only charging the batteries or charging while powering stuff in your house too? I'm curious because I just recently bought an electric car and on the average day I use about 20kWh of charge from the cars battery so I was thinking since I cant afford to go solar on my whole house yet what if I can build a system dedicated to charging my car. I thought that if I had storage of around 30 to 40 kWh and the ability to recharge through out the day and then I can charge the car during the night with a little extra capacity just in case and also for efficiency loss I could mostly drive my car off the sun. I know there will be days it wont always work but for the most part it would. it usually takes roughly 4 hours to charge when its at 50% (give or take) the charger draws 32 amps@240 v but the closer to full it gets the amps taper down. Do you think this would be possible to do for a fraction of the cost of a whole house system or would it be about as large as a whole house system?
@@ChrisMonopoli To get 30kWh from solar panels you'll need about 16 300w solar panels installed. For batteries, 32 280Ah cells will give you ~28kWh storage. You could calculate how much its going to cost. A system like that is going to be the same as whole-house system.
@@SolarEngineering Thank you for the information that is what I needed to know.
How long did it take to full charge your 23kw battery?
solar array producing about 12kW/day, so about 2 days for a full charge.
@@SolarEngineering So it takes two days to charge your batteries to full, and only one small space heater will use all of the usable energy stored in only 15 hours of use..... is my understanding correct?
Thanks for the video upload.
@@privateman1850 for my system it's about right. In summer I'm getting ~17kWh in winter about ~10kWh, so charging could be faster or slower depending on the time of year.
doing the 3p16s really isn't a good way. the weakest cell stops each parallel pack. I am doing 4 banks of 16s with 4 jk bms which has 2 amp balancer built in. I have 56kw of storage with 4 jk bms all cost $8000. saying each cell needs its own bms connection. I see so many doing it your way and that will lower your life cycles big time as the weakest cell will be over worked.
I was thinking about the same. definitely it would be a bit more expensive (+500)but it can prolong battery life. Is this 2 amp JK bms good? 2 amps balancig is sufficient? just started to learn more about battery systems so sorry such as questions.
@@MB-vi3yg 2 amp works. most of the time it will below balancing but when you top balance every 6 months or so it does it in couple hours.
@@dc1544 So it is necessary to perform manual balance before connecting to active balancer and also repeat it each 6 months? I am just curious if this manual balancing is done also on some battery system automaticaly (like Luna or pylontech).
@@MB-vi3yg Mine balances every time it reaches 3.4 volts on cells. so about 85% In winter it usually wont hit that. in spring/summer and fall it does daily. Most BMS do balance at 150MA .150A. My JK does 2 amps. so after couple hours they are mostly perfect balance. Once they stay pretty close. if a cell doesnt then check nuts and make sure they are torqued right. Or maybe a cell is bad.
Стоимость этих ячеек на тао-бао примерно 40 долларов за штуку. 48 ячеек 1920 долларов и доставка морем около 5 долларов за кг. веса. вес одной ячейки 3кг. тоесть 145 кг. вес всех 48-ми, стоимость доставки 720 долларов. итого стоимость всей батареи с доставкой 2640 долларов. 200 долларов стоит металлический инструментальный ящик такого размера. 135 долларов стоит ант БМС (намного круче, чем та, что на видео) на 300 ампер, Показометр стоит 16 долларов. Какие 7 саузен долларс??? Ты переплатил нереально! Пока вы будете кормить перекупов с али, пока и Китай будет ставить весь мир раком.
А вообще. - респект, за то, чем ты занимаешься. Многие и доллар не потратят на сохранение экологии. А ты кучу денег потратил, хоть и безмозгло, но не суть.