SUPPORT The Channel! 🔥🐉 www.patreon.com/CasualAnimeGuyExplains Tried to make the editing as obnoxious as possible for fun but I think it came out quite well 😂 What are your thoughts on Daima so far!? 🤔
bad video, this retcons nothing. two things can be true at the same time. this just explains a way for Kibito and Shin to have defused since potara fusions are permanent for kai
@@thinkbetter5286 no but he did approve of it to where he and toyotaro included it in the manga which Toriyama was much more heavily involved in than compared to his involvement with the anime
At first, I was thinking, "damn, this already contradicts Super." But then I started looking at it the same way I look at GT. It's still Dragonball, just a different road.
actually its between the buu saga and super Just because a guy says Super is retconned doesnt mean its not canon. Super did the same thing to Z with the potara and its still canon. There's no other timeline.
There's literally only the fact Kibito Kai has defused back. There is plenty of time for them to refuse before BOG. Especially how they are showcasing that they still have the Potara
That doesn't make it a retcon, it's pretty simple actually: - Fusion between kai are permanent - Fusion between mortals has a time limit - Buu's fart Gas negates fusion All of these facts can b true at the same time.c
Exactly, the fight with super boo wasn't even that long, in fact it was just a one sided battle trying to make boo absorb Vegito so he can free everyone inside
Not surprising Toriyama doesn't care about the super anime or manga . Only the movies where he was involved in . He probably didn't know or care about retcon with the earings, just like pan being unable to fly in the beginning of super hero movie while being able to in the super anime.
Exactly, what daima is trying to say is that the potaras still has a time limit but Boo body does have special properties and makes them defuse faster, everyone forgets Shin doesn't know all the details he only knew because of Gowasu in Goku black arc
Or maybe Gowasu was wrong and there is no time limit. We only see Vegito defuse twice. Once because of the bad air in Buu’s body, and another because of the strain caused by SSB. Neither of these had anything to do with a time limit. Gowasu could just be stupid 😂
@@RangerW3 It was explained that the potharas couldn't handle vegito blue's power, so to mantain the fusion it had to use all of the pothara's power. Like goku transforming ssj3 made his time in the living world shorter in the buu saga. Both can be true at the same time.
For this to be true, the two of them will have to fuse again and then defuse using the dragon balls. However, since Buu is already an option, using the dragon balls is unnecessary, which suggests that this is clearly a retcon in the continuity.
If you go by that logic, then there's no reason to believe GT can't be canon either because Pilaf and his gang can still always make another wish to make themselves old at some point that would make it line up with the events of GT.
Problem is that Goku asked Gowasu why they defused, even though here he already has an answer. So the real question is why would Goku ask that question? Maybe he and Vegeta fuse again, and it expires after an hour, but I'd have to check that episode of Super again, and see if they claim they fused only once before, I think they said that.
@@thewolfofwallstreet627 well no, gt isnt canon bc it never uses god ki, no one ever mentions any of the things that happened in super, ssg and ssb would be far stronger forms that they would use first instead of giving up after ssj3 wasnt enough
Super has not yet been retconned. This takes place at Trunks 9th birthday party... a year after Buu and 3 years before Battle of Gods Kibito and Supreme Kai could very easily refuse by the end of the show so they can defuse again with the Dragon Balls like in Super Daima isnt some "Alternate Timeline". Its intentionally taking place before Beerus arrives
Unless buu is unable to defuse them a 2nd time, and their memory of diama is erased it retcons the defuse part cause Goku asks the surpime Kai of universe 10 why they defuse in buu
To be fair Beerus and Whis couldn't show up as the series takes place 6 months after the Buu saga and Battle of Gods takes place 4 years after the Buu saga meaning that Beerus would still be asleep. Still great stuff as usual.
@@Zakjuh I have, because they don't do anything and they only take away any tension from the plot. They should just be left on their own planet like North Kai is.
Well this video aged like shit if you saw the latest episode from Dragon Ball Daima they officially confirmed it Daima is canon to Dragon Ball Super Toriyama sensei gave us a interesting lore bomb with the multiverse and shows tons of Dragon Ball super elements with all Supreme Kai’s gathers all different universe and people trying to decanonize Super is cringe especially when it’s Toriyama work as well
@@armantrto180 Hey buddy Daima is 4 years before DBS. After using the form, Vegeta is not comfortable with SS3 because of its drawbacks; it drains too much energy: Same exact reason he didn't use Trunks Grade 3 against Cell form despite knowing about it; he knew it wouldn't work. Its all in the manga. This isn't that complicated also Toriyama likely forgot about it. do first your research before you comment something dumb and go cry in the corner buddy and stfu
@@JohnSmith-w9ithe other thing is, BoG was written a decade before Daima was. I doubt at that point Toriyama had the idea to have Vegeta turn SSj3 yet.
@@Coldskin1 straight from the wiki: Timeline placement The movie takes place four years after Kid Buu's defeat, six years before the 28th World Martial Arts Tournament, in Age 778. according to the 2013 exhibition The World of Dragon Ball. It also takes place after the events of Dragon Ball: The Return of Son Goku and Friends!, which is set two years after Kid Buu's defeat, as Bulma references Tarble, the younger brother of Vegeta who the Z Fighters and their friends met in the special. As a continuation of the manga, its events take place between the manga chapters 517 and 518.
Usually, from Toriyama's perspective, Fusion shouldn't give a victory because its not Goku's own power. Its also too much of an easy solution. Gogeta/Vegito are rare cool characters supposed to be implied as beatable but not a win button
@@Zeldafan-zy1pb Maybe so but I often feel Fusion is kind of pointless. Gotenks never really wins a battle because he can never take it seriously. Vegito would have had more impact if the fusion was actually forever. Gogeta was actually used well for the most part. But the main issue I have is this saying fusions have a time limit and then defusing before it thing. GT did it 30 minute fusion dance? Well defuse in 10-15 minutes. Vegito Blue about to actually beat Zamasu? Well time for Potara to say screw this I'm out. And it's not just fusion, UI Goku was about to beat Jiren? Well guess Goku's body decided now it should have some consequences. It's gotten predictable to the point of groaning when it happens. And I know as soon as they try to fuse Goku and Vegeta again, this will happen again.
Wait in Super Battle of God 🤣 Supreme Kai is already Fused by Kibito in super and Daima take place before Super if they already defused in Daima then why they are fused in Beerus saga ?? Explain 🤠
Apparently, Daima is set *between Majin Buu arc* *and before Dragon Ball Super* …while DB Super is after this but is before the End of Z(end of the original manga)
@@LeonardoSilva-nh2ggI don't see why it wouldn't be Canon? Goku is no longer the student, wears new clothes, and trains Uub. No part of that gets reconned by any of these new shows. Now GT def got retconned with a living Frieza and SSJ4 not being the next level of SS
@@Stiksta GT got relegated to AU status so it's still weirdly canon, honestly I can see Daima just being another branch off Z. I think Super got too big that it has no choice but to be the "main" branch.
@@Stiksta Bulma being old is one contradiction, and I feel like there's probably some dialogue that makes Super impossible, but I haven't watched it in so long that I can't remember. It's possible that they'll re-tell that tournament to incorporate Broly and other characters (or at least explain what they're doing during that time)
I feel like videos like these just bait people into having one of those cartoonish fights where they just turn into a ball of dust and arms and legs start poking out until all of the Super, Daima and GT fans just give up on arguing lmao. Imo Super is canon, Toriyama worked on it and Toyotaro has clearly been trained to be his successor so unless if Dragon Ball goes corporate MCU and has no one sole writer or if Toriyama wrote in his will that he retcons training Toyotaro (lmao) then Super is here to stay. Daima’s continuity errors were to be expected and our only option at resolution is if Super gets rewritten or if Daima retcons itself 💀
@@CAGExplains You said it yourself though, Goku was made dumber than he actually was in DBS, so this may just be trying to fix his character by following DBZ goku's intelligence instead of DBS goku's intelligence where he doesn't even know what meditation is after using it more than once 💀
I dont think a few retcon puts Daima outside of Super's continuity. More like Akira Toriyama doesnt care or remember about Super's continuity and the Toei staff are too scared, stupid or dont care enough themselves to make corrections. Like, Dende is a kid again before the wish is even made. Thats not a retcon, thats straight up just a mistake.
I think you're jumping the gun here. Kibito and Shin will probably fuse again by the end of Daima. Also, the reason Kibitoshin used the Namekian Dragon Balls to defuse was simply due Majin Buu asleep during the Universe 6 arc.
i don't really see a reason for them to fuse again tho. In the episode Shin says they deliberately defused because the Shin half of the fusion didn't like being fused with the "old" Kibito half, and Super shows they can just defuse through the Dragon Balls anyway. If Daima isn't canon to Super's timeline, then the two participants aren't willing to fuse again, and if it is, then they'd just defuse later down the line anyways, making it pointless
@@Subpar1O1 Yes, but they believe it might be necessary to fuse to take on the Demon Realm in the future, if needed. We still have 19 episodes to go, so it's pretty weird to just say "Super is non-canon" based off the first episode. Toriyama also loves his jokes, so they might just end up fusing by accident.
I doubt this makes daima non canon to z/ super. Toriyama probably just forgot that he had explanation for this and ended up retconning it by mistake. It doesn't functionally alter anything important in terms of the narrative. He's forgotten things here and there before, it's been 40 plus years since he started this thing so it's to be expected.
I swear to god, people act as if Dragon Ball wasn't a string of retcons and contradictiosn held together by glue and good faith ^^ Just enjoy the brand new exciting world building we are getting. If anything contradicts anything else, there's good old "Toriyama forgot" until proven otherwise. We are talking about the same person who named a movie Dragon Ball Super Super Hero, because he forgot Super is already in the title
You guys are fucking morron and are insulting Toriyama to justify your stupid arguments. Daima's explanation has clearly a purpose and it is to correct the stupid explanation Super gave that is not compatible with the old kaioshin fusionning for years with a mortal. Have some respect
2:12 To be fair to Viz, the "o" ending in "Vegito/Vegetto" makes no sense in English since we don't leave "Kakarot" transliterated as "Kakarotto". And considering, with few exceptions, that they've kept to their own translation guide for the last 20+ years, it sorta already is a thing (in the manga).
@@benchaple-perrie2799it's just a prequel to super/battle of gods The absence of buu near humans in the first episode could easily place it after few months of kid buusssssss defeat
My theory on 'the bad air' is that Majin buu's absorption slowly breaks down anyone he absorbs into base elements. That would explain why Goku and Vegeta never ran into the Kai that Buu absorbed while in there.
DB Daima is a sequel to DBZ AND a prequel to DB Super. It doesn't make sense to make a whole new series non canon. We already had an alternate story with GT. But this series was written by Akira himself...
People tend to forget that Toriyama says all dragon ball content is canon, even if he didn’t write it himself because they’re all just in different universes and timelines saying it’s up to the viewer and reader to decide what’s canon to them! So I could say GT is canon and you could say Super is canon, doesn’t matter because dragon ball is dragon ball
Wait Because in Super Battle of God 🤣 Supreme Kai is already Fused by Kibito in super and Daima take place before Super if they already defused in Daima then why they are fused in Beerus saga ?? Explain 🤠
Well it doesn’t lol this video is two months ago and video aged like shit if you saw the latest episode from Dragon Ball Daima they officially confirmed it Daima is canon to Dragon Ball Super Toriyama sensei gave us a interesting lore bomb with the multiverse and shows tons of Dragon Ball super elements with all Supreme Kai’s gathers all different universe and people trying to decanonize Super is cringe especially when it’s Toriyama work as well
@@JohnSmith-w9ithe video hasn’t aged poorly at all. That episode you’re referencing does the opposite actually. In all three versions of Dragon Ball Super, Goku doesn’t find out about other universes until he fights Beerus. I don’t understand the need to make whatever version of Super follow Daima. Daima doesn’t have to be apart of Super’s continuities to be canon and Super doesn’t need to follow Daima to be canon.
Goku : i wish from shenron to make buu a good guy and stay on earth .. me : where tf did this come from ? That doesn’t only retcon super it’s also retcon z
I don't know why the Majin Buu stomach explanation is weird. It actually makes a ton of sense Digesting is to break down food into smaller components Majin Buu is literally built to consume entire beings and can easily do so
It always made so much sense to me. The story clearly implied that Boo had some sort of anti Kaioshin magic going on within his body (which explains why it effects Potara fusion and not Fusion Dance fusion)
@@rednaxela5960 and buu is a magical being that absorbs others literally to the molecular level down to their clothes (despite their bodies sorta kinda being inside of him in one way or another i always wondered how that worked), so it makes sense
The 1hr time limit was introduced 20 years after the DragonBall manga ended. I think it's more likely that the 1hr time limit was not a thing in-universe prior to the Zamasu Arc.
This actually does confirm Super, because when the fish asks where they want to go they say Universe 7. The concept of the multiverse was only introduced in Super. I'm hoping the reason they set up defusion through Buu again was so they could reintroduce fusion at the end of this series.
The time limit for mortals and buu,s gas unfusing are not mutually exclusive. If vegito had a time limit then went inside buu he would still just be defused by the gas.
Potara beings having a time limit for non godly beings is the best explanation tbh makes sense that they though potara would be forever because they never saw mortals fuse before just other kais
So, tell me, What does "Potara being stronger than the fusion dance" even MEAN? Like, powerscalling has been broken since the Freeza Saga. And anytime we see either fusion, they curbstomp the enemy equally. So is Potara REALLY stronger? Or was it just said to be to differ it from the dance?
4:35 woah buddy let’s watch the whole series before making that statement lmaoo they could fuse back together in the end ngl it’d be weird and kind of no pointless but still possible for it to happen🤣🤣🤣
@@ashleybanks-wm4cg fym super to not be cannon I want both toriyama canon z movies to just fit right in the timeline i.e BoG and RoF becuz it's literally said it takes place before BoG so it's not far from impossible
I jus got hip to ur vids but ur channel is fire bro keep goin
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People don’t get what a retcon is. It’s a *RET* roactive *CON* tinuity change. Vegito has a time limit? Retcon. SSJ happens with a tingly feeling in your back? Retcon. Vegito STR == Gogeta STR? 3/3 Retcons.
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They don’t have to be good or bad to be simply acknowledged as a retcon regardless.
I’m just gonna assume it works differently on mortals while also accepting Buu’s BO can undo fusion. As far as bad retcons go this is pretty tame compared to others I experienced. The supreme kai being split might end up a plothole but they will probably end up fused again.
Exactly. Another thing to note, in Buu's body, Goku and Vegeta were forcibly defused, whereas the 1 hour time limit had them "calmly" defuse, so that would point to both methods being a valid way to end the potara for mortals.
@@Mrperson0 When Vegeta see their sons he brings up their fusion was undone too. But Goku corrects him and says Buu was showing the distinct features of the dance. Goku then adds “So Fusion is possible in here” What to make of this I don’t know.
In Dragon Ball Z, Vegito’s fusion dissolved inside Buu because of the unique conditions, not a time limit. So when Super introduced the Potara time limit, it didn’t contradict Z. The manga is a different continuity from the shows, so there’s no retcon-people are blending them together.
this dosent really retcons anything? like it only retcons that vegito defused because of buus body in DBZ and not because of the timer, they dident mentioned that the timer have been retconed
Wait in Super Battle of God 🤣 Supreme Kai is already Fused by Kibito in super and Daima take place before Super if they already defused in Daima then why they are fused in Beerus saga ?? Explain 🤠
Omg I am embarrassed that full grown adults actually believe this. Buddy, it aint that deep. You fandoms need to grow up and stop looking into every little thing. Its fucking fine. Lol. That tiny detail doesnt break the timeline or cannon in any significant way at all
I was thinking about exactly this as I watched the episode! "Wait, didn't Shin and Kibito defuse via wishing on the Namekian Dragon Balls somewhere around Resurrection 'F' or the Champa arc?" As the only TH-camr I'm aware of who has correctly pointed out that both Vegetto and Ultra Instinct the transformation were not part of Toriyama's original Super drafts, I was hoping you would address this matter! I'm predicting that both the Boo's interior reasoning and the mortals fusing reasoning will both be true since even Shin and Kibito aren't aware of the mortals fusing reasoning until Goku Black. I haven't enjoyed a new Dragon Ball episode this much since 1997 when I was watching GT'S original airing in Okinawa! Toriyama truly left us an incredible masterpiece and I wish he was still around to witness our reactions to it.
The Dbz databooks said that merging potar multiplies the power of heroes - A*B. This suggests that the fusion of the Potar is MUCH stronger than the Dance.
@@CAGExplainsI suggest reading Herms threads about Potara and the fusion dance. Because he makes it pretty clear that the OG manga doesn’t really say which is stronger between the two.
It’s kinda crazy that people weren’t expecting retcons. The manga and anime for Super are different in a lot of ways. It was obviously going to retcon some things considering that it already has two conflicting continuities.
The logic behind the defusion is not a retcon to the mortal time limit. Daima takes place before Supreme Kai learns about the mortal time limit theory from the Universe 10 Kai. So Supreme Kai made an educated guess that Buu body can defuse people and it was correct but that doesn’t mean a theory from Universe 10 Kai in the future is wrong either. Not mutually exclusive. Context matters. Daima takes place before any information we receive from Super can be applicable. The only possible retcon is that they split using Buu instead of Dragon Balls but that doesn’t really change any major plot points for Super. Just becuz some information is being retcon does not mean the whole series is being retcon. So far nothing in Daima prevents the main plot points of Super from happening. Maybe that will change as the series goes on but we will see.
Imagine someone who hasn't seen super yet: the story confirms the defusion to be due to bad air then this person proceeds to watch Super which says Kibito and shin defused due to the DBs and that Vegito defused due to some time limit. DB's canon is so sloppy now
Its not a retcon, its just another way to undo a fusion. Over exerting too much power, time limits, and gas inside buus body. Supreme kai and kabito may still fuse later on.
@@miky9504 Toriyama has more involvement with Super than Daima, he even personally corrected a lot of Toyotaro's art Anyway, by that logic, i guess that Neko Majin Z is more canon than Super, becaue he was more involved on that
@@marcosgonzalez4207 Him correcting art is less important than having a directive role in the product, he only gave outlines for Super that were then adapted by Toei and Toyotaro. And yes, Neko Majin is canon-er than Super is
It's not a retcon to Super The potara being indone by Boo's gases and the one hour time limit for mortals are both true and do not contradict each other. Also, since Gowasu was the one who revealed the time limit for mortal potara fusion, it still makes sense for Shin to tell Goku that it's because of Boo's gases It's also perfectly possible Kibito and Supreme Kai re-fuse with the potara before the series ends and Boo will happen to be unavailable leading them to seel Porunga's help
I always felt like the demons were forgotten about to quickly. It's cool to find out Demon King Piccolo was actually a Demon and that there's a whole separate realm we haven't explored.
Maybe they can keep both retcons, because honestly, that was to be expected by Buu because Buu can fight and absorb Gods like Kais and use and gain God powers like in Moro arc where it said that Kid Buu had God energy in him, and Majin can take divine attacks, or divine energy attacks from Kais like the Grand Supreme Kai, as long as nothing is pure destruction energy, or Hakai, and Buu can also mess with things like tear through dimensions and other ridiculous things, so as busted and ridiculous as Buu is, it is not much of a stretch that since he can steal and use God power that he can affect it too. Or just affect godly techniques like the potara fusion. They probably will say that the Potara fusion defused because it was a divine technique using tools, which his demonic magic counteracts, which is why the Metamorine fusion didn't defuse inside of Majin Buu.
In Dragonball Multiverse a Fan manga Zen Buu has many Magical Ablities he acquired we see on display thorught theFan manga which was cool as Well! Not just Power
I dont really understand how this is a retcon, if buu didn't exist, then yes, what the kais said is correct, but with buu existing and the kai that said it, who isn't even in the same universe as buu, then he wouldn't have known about this.
Unless Kibito and Shin refuse before super and defuse again using the dragon balls (like they originally stated), then the method in which they defused was retconned. Definitely getting blown out of proportion outside of that though.
@xnortheast1106 you saying it's still a retcon without even trying to explain why it is or rebuttal my point is the reason why the next generation of humans are doomed
@@DivineCell You're part of the generation that's doomed. You stubbornly denying it is why. I shouldn't have to spoon feed you what you would realize if you had common sense.
daima doesnt take place 3 years after Z It takes place in Age 775 to be exact like a year after the defeat of Kid Buu since in the first ep they celebrates Trunks 9th birthday and he was 8 during the buu saga
U do realize before Akira the goat toriyama died he made it clear daima WAS NOT CANON but he worked on this passionately also it takes place BEFORE DBS
Talking about retcons, what was that about anyone with pointy ears being from the demon realm? Also, apparently, the namekuseijins are... demons again, then? Hahaha
the time limit could still be there for mortals fusing with it. Since Kais' Potara fusion are permanent, they need to use other method like Dragon Balls or Buu's magic. Unless the show or just the ending completely contradict BoG, currently this just make both method canon.
I don't understand why both can't be true, they don't contradict each other. If it is a retcon then the Kais are completely unreliable sources of information
It's not conceptually impossible for both of those things to be true, but what is more likely to be the case? Based on the information that we currently have, would it make more sense in the Super panel for Goku to ask how Kibito and Kaioshin de-fused (which is what he asked), or would it make sense for him to ask how they de-fused again and whether it was due to the bad air/magic gas like last time (which is not what he asked)? The context in which the dialogue describing the specific event was written also matters. For example, I highly doubt that when Toriyama first wrote about the permanence of the Potara Fusion and then the "bad air" in Buu that caused that de-fusion, that he did so with the actual 1 hr time limit in mind that ultimately wouldn't be introduced into the franchise until about 20 years later.
DBZ fanbase is toxic and also so pretentious they don't know when theyre wrong For starters there's no way Super can be canon Daima AND GT contradict it I think Kai was made to make an alternate timeline that super would work for Also SuperDragonballheroes IS CANON the weirdos saying its not when the studio confirmed it ws part of the story and officially licensed are dense and want their opinion to be facts if you look at everything it's clear Super was a mistake and their tryiing to get rid of it GT is the correct continuation of DBZ Super is just some alternate timeline with all the various power ups that aren't anywhere near as powerful as Super Saiyan 4 😂it's pitiful
@@ashleybanks-wm4cg akira toriyama only worked on some GT designs but nothing on story writing meaning GT isn't canon. heroes is official since its made by toei animation but not canon since toriyama didn't even participate in it.
No it’s quite right. I wouldn’t call it a retcon though, as that requires Daima and Super to exist in the same continuity. DBS, beyond being three separate continuities within itself, can not exist in Daima’s continuity given the information we have right now.
For some reason Twitter and some comments in TH-cam believes the initial retcon comes from Toei (Dragon Ball fans favorite scape goat/pushing bag) even though the article interview already exists about it being Toriyama's idea.
My thing is this is the second time the whole "The world was at peace" blurb was retconned after the Buu Saga. The first was when Super even occured since EoZ made it clear that there was no conflict whatsoever up until that chapter. So much so that Goku didn't even see Bulma for about five years and everyone not named Goku and Vegeta fell off because they saw no point in training. The second retcon is now since at the beginning of Super it was stated by the narrator that the world only experienced peace after the defeat of Buu up until BoG. The beginning of BoG even has the characters settling in to their peaceful lives. Now Daima happens in between these events which up ends that. At this point I'm beginning to wonder what the narrator considers "peaceful". Next the "peaceful" seven years between the Cell and Buu Sagas will have some crazy plot where this interdimensional time lord appears on Earth and Goku has to come back from otherworld to help Gohan and Vegeta face him. Despite Goku being confirmed dead for all those seven years, Gohan never having trained or fought for those years and Vegeta claiming to never fight again. Either way I'm just here for the ride, nitpicks aside Daima is fun so far
I never really liked the "bad air" explanation and much preferred the dragon balls. It just made much more sense that these prestablished wish granting orbs can defuse 2 beings rather than "weird monster magic air." Also, what does it mean for gotenks? If this air can defuse beings on near instant contact with it, why did we get buutenks for a while? It just never added up to me.
They retconned the retcon. I can't believe it. The time limit makes more sense then the magical air gas. It always felt like such a hand wavy explanation for the fact that he wrote himself into a corner. The potaras become a frustrating device because the whole they stay permanently fused consequence is never gonna fly and they'll have to come up with a way around it every time. Well I guess not anymore. Twice.
I dont know why people are surprised. super retconned Z wit hthe potara and now we got a dude making a video how super is retconned because of the potara. Sounds familiar lol
@@TheEmperorRaidouhow not really? I think youre likely a gt tard or hating on super because thats what everyone does. "Buus evil prescence makes a godly fusion go byebye" is so much dumber than "Mortals, who were never intended to use the potara, cant draw out the full limits of the potara, those full limits being permenant fusion"
I'm not going to watch this clickbait. Super Broly canonized super. Because of Broly. Anything else for seeing are separate timelines affected at a certain point.
I haven't seen Dragon Ball Diama yet... But it's worth mentioning that in Dragon Ball super, Whis states that the fusion earrings had never been used on non deities before Goku and Vegeta. He also directly states that non deities can only remain fused for 1 hour and the Kais were notably surprised at hearing this information. Dragon Ball Daima is canonically before the events of Super. While it is possible that the gas inside of Majin Buu could have had some effect, (though not likely likely because Gotenks remain fused for his entire 30 minutes after absorption) it is also likely that the information provided in Dragon Ball super is just as true. Your analysis is not confirmation of a separation of continuity. Don't give yourself more credit than you deserve.
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Tried to make the editing as obnoxious as possible for fun but I think it came out quite well 😂
What are your thoughts on Daima so far!? 🤔
bad video, this retcons nothing. two things can be true at the same time. this just explains a way for Kibito and Shin to have defused since potara fusions are permanent for kai
Ur spreading missinformation theres no retcon 😑. Think a bit before making a video and dont select info like a Dumb Guy on twitter.
Well, technically, Potara was never in Toriyama's notes for the Goku Black Arc.
@@thinkbetter5286 no but he did approve of it to where he and toyotaro included it in the manga which Toriyama was much more heavily involved in than compared to his involvement with the anime
At first, I was thinking, "damn, this already contradicts Super." But then I started looking at it the same way I look at GT. It's still Dragonball, just a different road.
That's the best way to enjoy it imo. No need to get caught up in canon whatever, just enjoy PEAK
@@CAGExplains it takes place before BOG. But if it were canon, then Daima would be before super.
actually its between the buu saga and super
Just because a guy says Super is retconned doesnt mean its not canon. Super did the same thing to Z with the potara and its still canon. There's no other timeline.
There's literally only the fact Kibito Kai has defused back. There is plenty of time for them to refuse before BOG. Especially how they are showcasing that they still have the Potara
@@keybladegames_realYou'd have to just assume the Daima Kais are wrong, just like with Z, though... Plus, that fact doesn't really matter, here?
That doesn't make it a retcon, it's pretty simple actually:
- Fusion between kai are permanent
- Fusion between mortals has a time limit
- Buu's fart Gas negates fusion
All of these facts can b true at the same time.c
He just made this video to get easy views with minimal effort. It's kinda sad
@@Soji-76 it's mad weird ☠
Exactly, the fight with super boo wasn't even that long, in fact it was just a one sided battle trying to make boo absorb Vegito so he can free everyone inside
There are two explanation for the defusion though. They refused and then lost access to the gas?
@alphamarigi exactly why not just have Buu defuse them again, it's dumb and something you shouldn't even be thinking about
Huge Toriyama W for retconning the retcon, the Potara explanation is more sensible.
Agreed!
I hated that retcon so much, positive points for it.
Yeah, and Daima should absolutely take precedence by the way. It's both a later revision and actually Canon.
Not surprising Toriyama doesn't care about the super anime or manga . Only the movies where he was involved in . He probably didn't know or care about retcon with the earings, just like pan being unable to fly in the beginning of super hero movie while being able to in the super anime.
This is before events in super happen. Nothing is retconned, Shin and Kibito don’t have a full understanding of Potara
my guy dropped this video a minute after I finished watching it and gave me exactly what I was looking for
I aim to please bro 😂🔥
Same here.
Huge W to Daima for keeping the better potara explanation
Agreed!
I think that, the fact that vegito defuse in boo's body DO NOT retcon vegito have a time limit, both can be true in the same time
Yeah they can
Exactly, what daima is trying to say is that the potaras still has a time limit but Boo body does have special properties and makes them defuse faster, everyone forgets Shin doesn't know all the details he only knew because of Gowasu in Goku black arc
Or maybe Gowasu was wrong and there is no time limit.
We only see Vegito defuse twice. Once because of the bad air in Buu’s body, and another because of the strain caused by SSB.
Neither of these had anything to do with a time limit. Gowasu could just be stupid 😂
@@RangerW3 It was explained that the potharas couldn't handle vegito blue's power, so to mantain the fusion it had to use all of the pothara's power. Like goku transforming ssj3 made his time in the living world shorter in the buu saga. Both can be true at the same time.
For this to be true, the two of them will have to fuse again and then defuse using the dragon balls. However, since Buu is already an option, using the dragon balls is unnecessary, which suggests that this is clearly a retcon in the continuity.
What if they just fuse again at the end lol and that explains why they used the dragon balls later on.
Thats not a clickbaity title tho
If you go by that logic, then there's no reason to believe GT can't be canon either because Pilaf and his gang can still always make another wish to make themselves old at some point that would make it line up with the events of GT.
Problem is that Goku asked Gowasu why they defused, even though here he already has an answer. So the real question is why would Goku ask that question? Maybe he and Vegeta fuse again, and it expires after an hour, but I'd have to check that episode of Super again, and see if they claim they fused only once before, I think they said that.
@@thewolfofwallstreet627 Because Tori himself stated that is not canon. On the contrary of super
@@thewolfofwallstreet627 well no, gt isnt canon bc it never uses god ki, no one ever mentions any of the things that happened in super, ssg and ssb would be far stronger forms that they would use first instead of giving up after ssj3 wasnt enough
Super has not yet been retconned.
This takes place at Trunks 9th birthday party... a year after Buu and 3 years before Battle of Gods
Kibito and Supreme Kai could very easily refuse by the end of the show so they can defuse again with the Dragon Balls like in Super
Daima isnt some "Alternate Timeline". Its intentionally taking place before Beerus arrives
Unless buu is unable to defuse them a 2nd time, and their memory of diama is erased it retcons the defuse part cause Goku asks the surpime Kai of universe 10 why they defuse in buu
@@professorchaos5058 we shall see. I think it'd be more an inconsistency than anything
@@Champizard Daima is not taking place before Beerus arrives because Super don't exist in Daima Timeline
@@Hajime790 You're just making up stuff at this point 😭
@@Hajime790 where is that stated
To be fair Beerus and Whis couldn't show up as the series takes place 6 months after the Buu saga and Battle of Gods takes place 4 years after the Buu saga meaning that Beerus would still be asleep. Still great stuff as usual.
I've gotten tired of seeing them around tbh.
@@GeteMachine I haven't. They're two of the better characters introduced in a long time.
@@GeteMachine nobody asked
@@Zakjuh I have, because they don't do anything and they only take away any tension from the plot. They should just be left on their own planet like North Kai is.
@@cantu7214 Its a reply.
Well this video aged like shit if you saw the latest episode from Dragon Ball Daima they officially confirmed it Daima is canon to Dragon Ball Super Toriyama sensei gave us a interesting lore bomb with the multiverse and shows tons of Dragon Ball super elements with all Supreme Kai’s gathers all different universe and people trying to decanonize Super is cringe especially when it’s Toriyama work as well
Canon to super. Vegeta never went SSJ3 in Super, gtfo.
@@armantrto180 Hey buddy Daima is 4 years before DBS. After using the form, Vegeta is not comfortable with SS3 because of its drawbacks; it drains too much energy: Same exact reason he didn't use Trunks Grade 3 against Cell form despite knowing about it; he knew it wouldn't work. Its all in the manga. This isn't that complicated also Toriyama likely forgot about it. do first your research before you comment something dumb and go cry in the corner buddy and stfu
@@JohnSmith-w9ithe other thing is, BoG was written a decade before Daima was. I doubt at that point Toriyama had the idea to have Vegeta turn SSj3 yet.
Dbs anime 6 months after the buu saga 😖
@@Coldskin1 straight from the wiki:
Timeline placement
The movie takes place four years after Kid Buu's defeat, six years before the 28th World Martial Arts Tournament, in Age 778. according to the 2013 exhibition The World of Dragon Ball. It also takes place after the events of Dragon Ball: The Return of Son Goku and Friends!, which is set two years after Kid Buu's defeat, as Bulma references Tarble, the younger brother of Vegeta who the Z Fighters and their friends met in the special. As a continuation of the manga, its events take place between the manga chapters 517 and 518.
I see Dragon Ball and Z as the only true canon to Dragon Ball. There are four paths that the story can take. GT, Online, Super, and now Daima.
agreed
I felt the same for a very long time.
If Goku and Vegeta ever fuse in Daima they'll probably just defuse at the worst moment cause the writing says so.
Usually, from Toriyama's perspective, Fusion shouldn't give a victory because its not Goku's own power.
Its also too much of an easy solution. Gogeta/Vegito are rare cool characters supposed to be implied as beatable but not a win button
@@Zeldafan-zy1pb Maybe so but I often feel Fusion is kind of pointless. Gotenks never really wins a battle because he can never take it seriously. Vegito would have had more impact if the fusion was actually forever. Gogeta was actually used well for the most part.
But the main issue I have is this saying fusions have a time limit and then defusing before it thing. GT did it 30 minute fusion dance? Well defuse in 10-15 minutes. Vegito Blue about to actually beat Zamasu? Well time for Potara to say screw this I'm out. And it's not just fusion, UI Goku was about to beat Jiren? Well guess Goku's body decided now it should have some consequences. It's gotten predictable to the point of groaning when it happens. And I know as soon as they try to fuse Goku and Vegeta again, this will happen again.
Wait in Super Battle of God 🤣 Supreme Kai is already Fused by Kibito in super and Daima take place before Super if they already defused in Daima then why they are fused in Beerus saga ?? Explain 🤠
@@captainboom2174 Probably forgot, I dunno. tbf I don't think anyone's losing sleep of Supreme Kai stuff.
Can't get over how IMPRESSIVELY quick you made something of this quality. 10/10
Apparently, Daima is set *between Majin Buu arc*
*and before Dragon Ball Super*
…while DB Super is after this but is
before the End of Z(end of the original manga)
At this point, can end of Z still be considered canon?
@@LeonardoSilva-nh2ggI don't see why it wouldn't be Canon? Goku is no longer the student, wears new clothes, and trains Uub. No part of that gets reconned by any of these new shows.
Now GT def got retconned with a living Frieza and SSJ4 not being the next level of SS
@@Stiksta GT got relegated to AU status so it's still weirdly canon, honestly I can see Daima just being another branch off Z. I think Super got too big that it has no choice but to be the "main" branch.
@@Stiksta Bulma being old is one contradiction, and I feel like there's probably some dialogue that makes Super impossible, but I haven't watched it in so long that I can't remember.
It's possible that they'll re-tell that tournament to incorporate Broly and other characters (or at least explain what they're doing during that time)
@@MegaOverclocked gt ain't canon, stop fucking coping
Bro was yapping about possibilities to hit that 8 minute mark 😂😂😂
I feel like videos like these just bait people into having one of those cartoonish fights where they just turn into a ball of dust and arms and legs start poking out until all of the Super, Daima and GT fans just give up on arguing lmao. Imo Super is canon, Toriyama worked on it and Toyotaro has clearly been trained to be his successor so unless if Dragon Ball goes corporate MCU and has no one sole writer or if Toriyama wrote in his will that he retcons training Toyotaro (lmao) then Super is here to stay. Daima’s continuity errors were to be expected and our only option at resolution is if Super gets rewritten or if Daima retcons itself 💀
Bro wasted NO TIME putting together this banger of a video. Much respect 🔥
There was no time to waste! Had to make sure people were up to date on their Dragon Ball knowledge 😤🔥
Daima might be grade a bull shit
2:59 bro really didn't watch the anime, Shin didn't know about the fusion, Elder kai mentioned it, then Shin and Kibito decided to test it out
Tbf, with how many Kais Buu absorbed it's only natural that his insides would devolop an immunity to any and all Kai related magic so I fw this heavy
For Goku to be able to deduce that in 5 seconds is hilarious though 😂
@@CAGExplains You said it yourself though, Goku was made dumber than he actually was in DBS, so this may just be trying to fix his character by following DBZ goku's intelligence instead of DBS goku's intelligence where he doesn't even know what meditation is after using it more than once 💀
I dont think a few retcon puts Daima outside of Super's continuity. More like Akira Toriyama doesnt care or remember about Super's continuity and the Toei staff are too scared, stupid or dont care enough themselves to make corrections.
Like, Dende is a kid again before the wish is even made. Thats not a retcon, thats straight up just a mistake.
I think you're jumping the gun here. Kibito and Shin will probably fuse again by the end of Daima. Also, the reason Kibitoshin used the Namekian Dragon Balls to defuse was simply due Majin Buu asleep during the Universe 6 arc.
i don't really see a reason for them to fuse again tho. In the episode Shin says they deliberately defused because the Shin half of the fusion didn't like being fused with the "old" Kibito half, and Super shows they can just defuse through the Dragon Balls anyway. If Daima isn't canon to Super's timeline, then the two participants aren't willing to fuse again, and if it is, then they'd just defuse later down the line anyways, making it pointless
How does it make sense that they defused then back to normal refused again, THAT MAKES NO SENSE
@@Subpar1O1 Yes, but they believe it might be necessary to fuse to take on the Demon Realm in the future, if needed. We still have 19 episodes to go, so it's pretty weird to just say "Super is non-canon" based off the first episode.
Toriyama also loves his jokes, so they might just end up fusing by accident.
@@angeleyes4us200 Because anything can happen in the remaining 19 episodes, and it would be a very Toriyama thing to do?
@@Mrperson0the two re-fusing for a quick gag seems most likely tbh, since Daima looks to be leaning into Toriyama's silly writing a lot more
I doubt this makes daima non canon to z/ super. Toriyama probably just forgot that he had explanation for this and ended up retconning it by mistake. It doesn't functionally alter anything important in terms of the narrative. He's forgotten things here and there before, it's been 40 plus years since he started this thing so it's to be expected.
Exactly. Ntm there’s a good chance Shin and Kibito might refuse later in the series. I think bro is jumping the gun with this video
@@entityuntombednah the only logical conclusion is retcon after retcon
I swear to god, people act as if Dragon Ball wasn't a string of retcons and contradictiosn held together by glue and good faith ^^ Just enjoy the brand new exciting world building we are getting. If anything contradicts anything else, there's good old "Toriyama forgot" until proven otherwise. We are talking about the same person who named a movie Dragon Ball Super Super Hero, because he forgot Super is already in the title
You guys are fucking morron and are insulting Toriyama to justify your stupid arguments.
Daima's explanation has clearly a purpose and it is to correct the stupid explanation Super gave that is not compatible with the old kaioshin fusionning for years with a mortal.
Have some respect
toriyama just corrected the toei recton that was created to bring back vegero and he was right.
2:12 To be fair to Viz, the "o" ending in "Vegito/Vegetto" makes no sense in English since we don't leave "Kakarot" transliterated as "Kakarotto". And considering, with few exceptions, that they've kept to their own translation guide for the last 20+ years, it sorta already is a thing (in the manga).
I can appreciate that it makes plenty of sense, but the name just sounds... gross to me lol
@@CAGExplains
It sounds goofy, Vegerot, a vegetable has rotted.
i interpreted the O in Vegito to be from O in Goku since childhood.
It doesn’t take 1 brain cell to understand how it’s not contradictory
It doesn't retcon Super, Super doesn't make sense already
Daima is more of a reboot to Super.
Not even remotely close to a reeboot@@benchaple-perrie2799
@@benchaple-perrie2799it's just a prequel to super/battle of gods
The absence of buu near humans in the first episode could easily place it after few months of kid buusssssss defeat
Average brainrot deflection comment.
What is wrong with some narrowminded people in the DB community and hating/denying Super?
I'm glad I found your channel man. You're doing a good job.
My theory on 'the bad air' is that Majin buu's absorption slowly breaks down anyone he absorbs into base elements. That would explain why Goku and Vegeta never ran into the Kai that Buu absorbed while in there.
DB Daima is a sequel to DBZ AND a prequel to DB Super.
It doesn't make sense to make a whole new series non canon.
We already had an alternate story with GT. But this series was written by Akira himself...
People tend to forget that Toriyama says all dragon ball content is canon, even if he didn’t write it himself because they’re all just in different universes and timelines saying it’s up to the viewer and reader to decide what’s canon to them!
So I could say GT is canon and you could say Super is canon, doesn’t matter because dragon ball is dragon ball
Wait Because in Super Battle of God 🤣 Supreme Kai is already Fused by Kibito in super and Daima take place before Super if they already defused in Daima then why they are fused in Beerus saga ?? Explain 🤠
@@captainboom2174 battle of gods is still dbz though
@@captainboom2174we’ll have to wait the next daima episodes
@tobias8351also, what…?
how does one come to this conclusion...
Well it doesn’t lol this video is two months ago and video aged like shit if you saw the latest episode from Dragon Ball Daima they officially confirmed it Daima is canon to Dragon Ball Super Toriyama sensei gave us a interesting lore bomb with the multiverse and shows tons of Dragon Ball super elements with all Supreme Kai’s gathers all different universe and people trying to decanonize Super is cringe especially when it’s Toriyama work as well
@@JohnSmith-w9i yeah but it was pretty obvious even from episode 1 that it was canon
@@JohnSmith-w9ithe video hasn’t aged poorly at all. That episode you’re referencing does the opposite actually. In all three versions of Dragon Ball Super, Goku doesn’t find out about other universes until he fights Beerus.
I don’t understand the need to make whatever version of Super follow Daima. Daima doesn’t have to be apart of Super’s continuities to be canon and Super doesn’t need to follow Daima to be canon.
Goku : i wish from shenron to make buu a good guy and stay on earth .. me : where tf did this come from ? That doesn’t only retcon super it’s also retcon z
I don't know why the Majin Buu stomach explanation is weird. It actually makes a ton of sense
Digesting is to break down food into smaller components
Majin Buu is literally built to consume entire beings and can easily do so
Fused beings are fused on a molecular level, and their souls are one too… theres nothing to break down because its just 1 new person.
Bro, tell me what are you smoking. I want the same.
It always made so much sense to me. The story clearly implied that Boo had some sort of anti Kaioshin magic going on within his body (which explains why it effects Potara fusion and not Fusion Dance fusion)
@@rednaxela5960 and buu is a magical being that absorbs others literally to the molecular level down to their clothes (despite their bodies sorta kinda being inside of him in one way or another i always wondered how that worked), so it makes sense
The buu thing always bothered me. Like how is it the fusion dance the weaker fusion stayed fused in buu but the stronger and permanent one couldn't
Such a good retcon. I hate the time limit excuse, Its so stupid.
Agreed, ruined what made the potara unique and special
Then how do they explain vegito unfusing against Zamasu now?
@@xnortheast1106 what if the god ki of ssjb was tempering with the god powers of the potaras, that's pretty much how I would change it
@@xnortheast1106same thing with ssj4 it’s just no longer cannon
What, the "buu's body atmosphere" explanation is WAY stupider 😂
As a guy that doesn’t watch Dragon Ball, you guys seem to have a headache going down the road of fate fans.
This does not retcon the time limit. Vegetto was absorbed by Buu before the 1 hour time limit
The original run, the fusion was permanent otherwise old kai would have said so.
Why you trying to defend that awful retcon?
The 1hr time limit was introduced 20 years after the DragonBall manga ended. I think it's more likely that the 1hr time limit was not a thing in-universe prior to the Zamasu Arc.
When in the manga is it stated how long Super Vegetto lasted against Buu?
Right??? If that fight lasted 1 hour Buu would've been vaporized 😂
Both defusion methods being true is cool af
@@kmgyening Zamasu made a third wish to make people think there's a time limit to the potara theory
This actually does confirm Super, because when the fish asks where they want to go they say Universe 7. The concept of the multiverse was only introduced in Super.
I'm hoping the reason they set up defusion through Buu again was so they could reintroduce fusion at the end of this series.
Thats false. In Dbz Battle of Gods Movie Beerus mentioned 12 Universes
The time limit for mortals and buu,s gas unfusing are not mutually exclusive. If vegito had a time limit then went inside buu he would still just be defused by the gas.
But then why would Goku have asked Gowasu why the fusion failed, when he would be under the impression that Boo caused it?
Toriyama retconing the retcon is just him not remembering shit again. 💀
Potara beings having a time limit for non godly beings is the best explanation tbh makes sense that they though potara would be forever because they never saw mortals fuse before just other kais
And Elder Kai and the witch?
@@dansmith1661 elder kai is a god
Witch was a mortal but that was still a fusion between a god and a mortal
Not mortal and mortal like vegeto
So, tell me,
What does "Potara being stronger than the fusion dance" even MEAN? Like, powerscalling has been broken since the Freeza Saga. And anytime we see either fusion, they curbstomp the enemy equally. So is Potara REALLY stronger? Or was it just said to be to differ it from the dance?
4:35 woah buddy let’s watch the whole series before making that statement lmaoo they could fuse back together in the end ngl it’d be weird and kind of no pointless but still possible for it to happen🤣🤣🤣
And imagine fat buu goes into hibernation at end
That would easily explain both time limit permanent kaau and bad Air
@@aparnabag5128 faxxx
@@aparnabag5128Thats if they dont further isolate the series from Super
@@aparnabag5128why do y'all want Super to be canon so bad it's clear the studio doesn't want Super to be canon Daima is the new wave and the future
@@ashleybanks-wm4cg fym super to not be cannon
I want both toriyama canon z movies to just fit right in the timeline i.e BoG and RoF becuz it's literally said it takes place before BoG so it's not far from impossible
Actully that retcon actully make sense
They’re probably going to fuse again after demon realm adventure.
Couldn’t it be both??? The earrings are permanent unless you are Kai’s OR Buus farts
Possible but this was definitely a weird choice if that was the case 🤔
@@CAGExplains I would hope so. Because Vegito blue 100% unfused in super due to the fusion burning out
I jus got hip to ur vids but ur channel is fire bro keep goin
People don’t get what a retcon is. It’s a *RET* roactive *CON* tinuity change. Vegito has a time limit? Retcon. SSJ happens with a tingly feeling in your back? Retcon. Vegito STR == Gogeta STR? 3/3 Retcons.
They don’t have to be good or bad to be simply acknowledged as a retcon regardless.
I guess vegerot still sounds better than kakata
I’m just gonna assume it works differently on mortals while also accepting Buu’s BO can undo fusion. As far as bad retcons go this is pretty tame compared to others I experienced. The supreme kai being split might end up a plothole but they will probably end up fused again.
Exactly. Another thing to note, in Buu's body, Goku and Vegeta were forcibly defused, whereas the 1 hour time limit had them "calmly" defuse, so that would point to both methods being a valid way to end the potara for mortals.
If they refuse in episode 12 this video will have aged like milk 😂😅
@@Mrperson0 When Vegeta see their sons he brings up their fusion was undone too. But Goku corrects him and says Buu was showing the distinct features of the dance. Goku then adds “So Fusion is possible in here” What to make of this I don’t know.
How are we seeing Shin and Kibito in Daima if it takes place before Super? They should still be fused until after Beerus has been introduced
In Dragon Ball Z, Vegito’s fusion dissolved inside Buu because of the unique conditions, not a time limit. So when Super introduced the Potara time limit, it didn’t contradict Z. The manga is a different continuity from the shows, so there’s no retcon-people are blending them together.
It retcooned the new explanation of vegitos defusion.
I imagine shin and kibito accidentally switching earrings and fusing again and buu just refusing to help them
this dosent really retcons anything? like it only retcons that vegito defused because of buus body in DBZ and not because of the timer, they dident mentioned that the timer have been retconed
Wait in Super Battle of God 🤣 Supreme Kai is already Fused by Kibito in super and Daima take place before Super if they already defused in Daima then why they are fused in Beerus saga ?? Explain 🤠
Omg I am embarrassed that full grown adults actually believe this. Buddy, it aint that deep. You fandoms need to grow up and stop looking into every little thing.
Its fucking fine. Lol. That tiny detail doesnt break the timeline or cannon in any significant way at all
I was thinking about exactly this as I watched the episode! "Wait, didn't Shin and Kibito defuse via wishing on the Namekian Dragon Balls somewhere around Resurrection 'F' or the Champa arc?"
As the only TH-camr I'm aware of who has correctly pointed out that both Vegetto and Ultra Instinct the transformation were not part of Toriyama's original Super drafts, I was hoping you would address this matter!
I'm predicting that both the Boo's interior reasoning and the mortals fusing reasoning will both be true since even Shin and Kibito aren't aware of the mortals fusing reasoning until Goku Black.
I haven't enjoyed a new Dragon Ball episode this much since 1997 when I was watching GT'S original airing in Okinawa! Toriyama truly left us an incredible masterpiece and I wish he was still around to witness our reactions to it.
The Dbz databooks said that merging potar multiplies the power of heroes - A*B. This suggests that the fusion of the Potar is MUCH stronger than the Dance.
bro made a video quicker than gogeta finishing off broly in dbs
I don’t think it does, its possible that Shin thinks he’s correct cause Gowasu hasn’t corrected him yet since Daima takes place before super.
This came out exactly as I was watching the episode directly after the Potorra scene 😂😂😂 bro is so goated
It's not easy being Goated but I knew I had to drop the video ASAP 😂😂😤
@@CAGExplains 🐐🐐🐐
@@CAGExplainsI suggest reading Herms threads about Potara and the fusion dance. Because he makes it pretty clear that the OG manga doesn’t really say which is stronger between the two.
It’s kinda crazy that people weren’t expecting retcons. The manga and anime for Super are different in a lot of ways. It was obviously going to retcon some things considering that it already has two conflicting continuities.
There is no retcons This is simply a different timeline
If they have 2 different explanations for the same thing, it's a retcon.
When has anyone ever said it's a different timeline?
@@bigwig252 No one
It would still be a retcon. Being in a different timeline wouldn't change the rules of the universe.
It should be different universe 7 as dbs universe 7 is like earth 1 and db daima universe 7 is earth 2 and dbgt is earth 3 of universe 7.
quick answer: its just an oversight
The logic behind the defusion is not a retcon to the mortal time limit. Daima takes place before Supreme Kai learns about the mortal time limit theory from the Universe 10 Kai. So Supreme Kai made an educated guess that Buu body can defuse people and it was correct but that doesn’t mean a theory from Universe 10 Kai in the future is wrong either. Not mutually exclusive. Context matters. Daima takes place before any information we receive from Super can be applicable. The only possible retcon is that they split using Buu instead of Dragon Balls but that doesn’t really change any major plot points for Super. Just becuz some information is being retcon does not mean the whole series is being retcon. So far nothing in Daima prevents the main plot points of Super from happening. Maybe that will change as the series goes on but we will see.
GT: Goku turns into a kid , Super : Pilaf gang turns into a kid, Daima: Everyone turns into a kid
Imagine someone who hasn't seen super yet: the story confirms the defusion to be due to bad air then this person proceeds to watch Super which says Kibito and shin defused due to the DBs and that Vegito defused due to some time limit. DB's canon is so sloppy now
always has been since super and the gods appeared
@@cz_PNKif this is supposed to be canon to Super, this is probably the worst continuity error so far.
Just because they've confirmed only one way to defuse yet, it doesn't mean that there aren't other ones
@@ReBolt590 copium
@@tristysstuff6664 you just learned a new word and now ya use it on everything 🤣🤣
What if they fuse again in Daima? It's still too early and Super still is canon.
Its not a retcon, its just another way to undo a fusion. Over exerting too much power, time limits, and gas inside buus body. Supreme kai and kabito may still fuse later on.
I feel like Daima is leaving Super behind and im all for it. Let's forget that trash.
So... There's a couple retcons. Why imply that it makes super non-canon? And what would make Daima have priority over Super?
Those are the same people that use scenes from Neko Majin Z and Dr. Slump as an argument for Dragonball, because they were made by Toriyama
Because Toriyama had more involvement with Daima than with Super, so if the two wouldn't be connected, Daima is the one that becomes canon
@@miky9504 Toriyama has more involvement with Super than Daima, he even personally corrected a lot of Toyotaro's art
Anyway, by that logic, i guess that Neko Majin Z is more canon than Super, becaue he was more involved on that
@@marcosgonzalez4207 Him correcting art is less important than having a directive role in the product, he only gave outlines for Super that were then adapted by Toei and Toyotaro.
And yes, Neko Majin is canon-er than Super is
It's not a retcon to Super
The potara being indone by Boo's gases and the one hour time limit for mortals are both true and do not contradict each other. Also, since Gowasu was the one who revealed the time limit for mortal potara fusion, it still makes sense for Shin to tell Goku that it's because of Boo's gases
It's also perfectly possible Kibito and Supreme Kai re-fuse with the potara before the series ends and Boo will happen to be unavailable leading them to seel Porunga's help
😂 as soon as i saw that line i thought the same thing i was like they retconned the retcon
I always felt like the demons were forgotten about to quickly. It's cool to find out Demon King Piccolo was actually a Demon and that there's a whole separate realm we haven't explored.
Maybe they can keep both retcons, because honestly, that was to be expected by Buu because Buu can fight and absorb Gods like Kais and use and gain God powers like in Moro arc where it said that Kid Buu had God energy in him, and Majin can take divine attacks, or divine energy attacks from Kais like the Grand Supreme Kai, as long as nothing is pure destruction energy, or Hakai, and Buu can also mess with things like tear through dimensions and other ridiculous things, so as busted and ridiculous as Buu is, it is not much of a stretch that since he can steal and use God power that he can affect it too. Or just affect godly techniques like the potara fusion. They probably will say that the Potara fusion defused because it was a divine technique using tools, which his demonic magic counteracts, which is why the Metamorine fusion didn't defuse inside of Majin Buu.
In Dragonball Multiverse a Fan manga Zen Buu has many Magical Ablities he acquired we see on display thorught theFan manga which was cool as Well! Not just Power
Buu denying potara fusion? Sounds pretty OP for me
I dont really understand how this is a retcon, if buu didn't exist, then yes, what the kais said is correct, but with buu existing and the kai that said it, who isn't even in the same universe as buu, then he wouldn't have known about this.
Yeah its not a retcon its Just these braindead twitter guys saying bs
No its still a retcon
Unless Kibito and Shin refuse before super and defuse again using the dragon balls (like they originally stated), then the method in which they defused was retconned. Definitely getting blown out of proportion outside of that though.
@xnortheast1106 you saying it's still a retcon without even trying to explain why it is or rebuttal my point is the reason why the next generation of humans are doomed
@@DivineCell You're part of the generation that's doomed. You stubbornly denying it is why. I shouldn't have to spoon feed you what you would realize if you had common sense.
Daima takes place three years after Z and before Super, so the Kai's could still re-fuse. Haters gonna hate.
daima doesnt take place 3 years after Z
It takes place in Age 775 to be exact like a year after the defeat of Kid Buu since in the first ep they celebrates Trunks 9th birthday and he was 8 during the buu saga
I mean, it is Dragon Ball. Everything contradicts. Has for decades.
I think if they left it alone at that, all these DB channels would be much saner
@@JLW2490 indeed they would
THIS IS THE LAST STRAW. it's finally time we all agree to make the dbs Future Trunks saga non canon
I really enjoyed the episode
Same here! I can't wait to see where it all goes 🔥
U do realize before Akira the goat toriyama died he made it clear daima WAS NOT CANON but he worked on this passionately also it takes place BEFORE DBS
Knowing that Super was made in a hurry, I am not surprised by these errors. With what I have seen today, I think I can expect more in the future.
It’s not a real dragon ball show without some retcons.
Talking about retcons, what was that about anyone with pointy ears being from the demon realm? Also, apparently, the namekuseijins are... demons again, then? Hahaha
There was that mention of Namekians coming from a "Different dimension" in the Granolah arc IIRC 🤔
demon king piccolo confirmed to be an actual demon king again LOL
They're descendents from the demon realm not exactly from there, anyone with point ears has a descendents from the demon realm
the time limit could still be there for mortals fusing with it. Since Kais' Potara fusion are permanent, they need to use other method like Dragon Balls or Buu's magic. Unless the show or just the ending completely contradict BoG, currently this just make both method canon.
I don't understand why both can't be true, they don't contradict each other. If it is a retcon then the Kais are completely unreliable sources of information
This guy thinks mui isn't cannon he clearly don't know how cannonity works in db
It's not conceptually impossible for both of those things to be true, but what is more likely to be the case? Based on the information that we currently have, would it make more sense in the Super panel for Goku to ask how Kibito and Kaioshin de-fused (which is what he asked), or would it make sense for him to ask how they de-fused again and whether it was due to the bad air/magic gas like last time (which is not what he asked)? The context in which the dialogue describing the specific event was written also matters. For example, I highly doubt that when Toriyama first wrote about the permanence of the Potara Fusion and then the "bad air" in Buu that caused that de-fusion, that he did so with the actual 1 hr time limit in mind that ultimately wouldn't be introduced into the franchise until about 20 years later.
Why would they need the dragon ball explanation for them defusing if they redefused? Wouldn't Goku just assume they used the Buu's gas again?
This doesn't recton DBS, just confirm that buu was the ultimate anti kaioshin weapon
This video feels like a gigantic stretch at best and misinformation at worst
2.7k likes to 1.1k comments lmfao
DBZ fanbase is toxic and also so pretentious they don't know when theyre wrong For starters there's no way Super can be canon Daima AND GT contradict it I think Kai was made to make an alternate timeline that super would work for
Also SuperDragonballheroes IS CANON the weirdos saying its not when the studio confirmed it ws part of the story and officially licensed are dense and want their opinion to be facts if you look at everything it's clear Super was a mistake and their tryiing to get rid of it GT is the correct continuation of DBZ Super is just some alternate timeline with all the various power ups that aren't anywhere near as powerful as Super Saiyan 4 😂it's pitiful
@@ashleybanks-wm4cg you just single-handedly set back the reading comprehension of this fandom by 5 years
@@ashleybanks-wm4cg akira toriyama only worked on some GT designs but nothing on story writing meaning GT isn't canon.
heroes is official since its made by toei animation but not canon since toriyama didn't even participate in it.
No it’s quite right. I wouldn’t call it a retcon though, as that requires Daima and Super to exist in the same continuity. DBS, beyond being three separate continuities within itself, can not exist in Daima’s continuity given the information we have right now.
For some reason Twitter and some comments in TH-cam believes the initial retcon comes from Toei (Dragon Ball fans favorite scape goat/pushing bag) even though the article interview already exists about it being Toriyama's idea.
It doesn't retcon Super
It does
@@joch3107 It does not
@@joch3107 It literally doesn't. The display of ONE new rule to potara doesn't ret-con anything.
EVERY method of de-fusing can be true.
@@joch3107 It mentions Universe 7
Dragon ball was never about continuity.
Ssj2 Gohan killed seven cell jrs out of 6. Yet cell saga is one of the best.
Crazy how we got three (technically 4) sequels to Z. I’m glad we’re going for a more grounded story, even if I like z type battles more
3? More like 2 gt and super
@@chocoburgersenpai1627 Super has a manga and anime series. And movies. It’s a bit complicated, this channel goes in detail
1. GT
2. Super
3. Daima
4. Neko Majin or Online?
@@CAGExplains I mean does online have a manga?
@@adreeeandanothere510 online had direct lore written from toriyama though its semi canon lowkey
My thing is this is the second time the whole "The world was at peace" blurb was retconned after the Buu Saga. The first was when Super even occured since EoZ made it clear that there was no conflict whatsoever up until that chapter. So much so that Goku didn't even see Bulma for about five years and everyone not named Goku and Vegeta fell off because they saw no point in training.
The second retcon is now since at the beginning of Super it was stated by the narrator that the world only experienced peace after the defeat of Buu up until BoG. The beginning of BoG even has the characters settling in to their peaceful lives. Now Daima happens in between these events which up ends that.
At this point I'm beginning to wonder what the narrator considers "peaceful". Next the "peaceful" seven years between the Cell and Buu Sagas will have some crazy plot where this interdimensional time lord appears on Earth and Goku has to come back from otherworld to help Gohan and Vegeta face him. Despite Goku being confirmed dead for all those seven years, Gohan never having trained or fought for those years and Vegeta claiming to never fight again. Either way I'm just here for the ride, nitpicks aside Daima is fun so far
Classic toriyama
I never really liked the "bad air" explanation and much preferred the dragon balls. It just made much more sense that these prestablished wish granting orbs can defuse 2 beings rather than "weird monster magic air."
Also, what does it mean for gotenks? If this air can defuse beings on near instant contact with it, why did we get buutenks for a while? It just never added up to me.
Dragon ball fans looking at super fans: WELL, WELL, WELL. look at you now? Talking about how GT isn't canon.
The existence of BoG and Resurrection F still make Super more "canon" than GT ever was tbh
@@ShimmerScarletbut they cant be canon because shin and kibito were kibito kai in resurrection f and bog?
My headcanon says everything post Cell saga is non canon
Super isn't non canon because of a couple retcons.
@@themarkerchannel3170 BoG and RoF are DBZ, so DBZ isn't canon I guess.
So now we have not 1 but three possible alternate futures? The GT timeline, the Super timeline, and now the Diama timeline.
They retconned the retcon. I can't believe it. The time limit makes more sense then the magical air gas. It always felt like such a hand wavy explanation for the fact that he wrote himself into a corner. The potaras become a frustrating device because the whole they stay permanently fused consequence is never gonna fly and they'll have to come up with a way around it every time. Well I guess not anymore. Twice.
Not really. Ur being a Super Tard
@@TheEmperorRaidou XD
People hated that retcon.
I dont know why people are surprised. super retconned Z wit hthe potara and now we got a dude making a video how super is retconned because of the potara. Sounds familiar lol
@@TheEmperorRaidouhow not really? I think youre likely a gt tard or hating on super because thats what everyone does. "Buus evil prescence makes a godly fusion go byebye" is so much dumber than "Mortals, who were never intended to use the potara, cant draw out the full limits of the potara, those full limits being permenant fusion"
Potara fusion is not “nonsense”, it’s cool as heck
I'm not going to watch this clickbait. Super Broly canonized super. Because of Broly. Anything else for seeing are separate timelines affected at a certain point.
You kust hate the LoZ franchise then hah
I haven't seen Dragon Ball Diama yet... But it's worth mentioning that in Dragon Ball super, Whis states that the fusion earrings had never been used on non deities before Goku and Vegeta. He also directly states that non deities can only remain fused for 1 hour and the Kais were notably surprised at hearing this information. Dragon Ball Daima is canonically before the events of Super. While it is possible that the gas inside of Majin Buu could have had some effect, (though not likely likely because Gotenks remain fused for his entire 30 minutes after absorption) it is also likely that the information provided in Dragon Ball super is just as true. Your analysis is not confirmation of a separation of continuity. Don't give yourself more credit than you deserve.
HOW THE HELL DID YOU EDIT IT THIS FAST!? HUH!? CAN YOU TEACH ME!?
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