Sooner Or Later One Of These Is Gonna Bite You - Dealing With Your Diff's Crush Collar
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 เม.ย. 2023
- The crush collar or sleeve is a part common to the vast majority of production rear (and front) Differentials. The manufacturers use them to expedite the assembly process, but under even normal use, they eventually lose their ability to hold tension against the pinion bearings and cause all sorts of noises and damage
It's even worse in a high performance environment.
Here's everything you need to know about dealing with these things as well as a simple hack to save yours and how to go about ridding yourself of them completely.
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One of the tricks we used to use was the double-roll solder. We torqued the nut to the proper torque with the solder between the bearing and the collar, then measure the thickness of the solder upon removal and there was our shim thickness. Old school! the cost of the solder and the shim were much less than even the crush collar.
Damn, dude, that's smart. I'm gonna use that. Thanks 😁
Old School Rules 😎
You are completely full of shit!
One thing, DO NOT USE ACID CORE SOLDER!
@@mdcuddy3286
Yep, don't wanna have a bad pinion trip. :3
It usually comes lose after someone pulls the yoke off to replace the pinion seal, guys would mark the nut’s relationship to the pinion (with a sharp ding from a chisel) into the nut and pinion. Replace the seal, reassemble with loc-tite back to the mark made, then, tickle it another 1/8th of a turn (wear take up) 🤔😉
Yep!...way I always seen and done...even at Dealership back years ago and nowandays.
I've done that a couple of times, although tightening less than an additional 1/8 of a turn, and it worked out okay but I worried about it, until I forgot about it.
Exactly how I’ve always done my fords. Figure, by the time and age of the vehicle, that 1/8 turn is helping the preload.
First and only rear I ever took apart(recently) I used a crush sleeve eliminator kit. It takes another set up step but I got peace of mind getting that nut tightened without drama.
The old timer who taught me said to mark pinion nut, usually with a straight line across the nut. That way you can see if the nut has backed off. It was a valuable addition.
I did a bunch of Dodge Dakota ring n pinions, when I worked at the dealership.
Pinion bearing preload is technically set with no ring gear in place.
Good information Uncle Tony
Right after pinion depth is established. I like new bearings & gears in the same housing, because i dont need a dial indicator or carrier block. Just calipers & a note pad
If I have to change a pinion seal I just marked the pinion and the nut and when I assemble back together after replacing the seal I line the two marks back up and go just a little bit tighter and it always seem to work for me. Never had any issues. It might not be the right way by the book but it works for me. Now if I was rebuilding a rear end and changing the ring and pinion then I would change the crush collar and do it by the book. The people I see that have problems are the ones that don't know better and use an impact and just send it.
i use a sharp chisel to stamp a perfect mark and change the seal then use red thread locker on the nut ive never had an issue
Nailed it tony. I always buy extra crush sleeves and throw them in my toolbox. If the nut comes off, it gets a new sleeve, preload gets set up with an inch pound wrench and the nut gets threadlocker.
They do tend to spring back a significant amount when you back the pinion nut off. Never had a problem reusing them on pinion seal jobs.
The ole shim it and crush it again is a great trick that works perfect. Also saves the day if you have a whoopsie and crush the sleeve too far on the first try building a new or used rear. One common misconception however is that crush sleeves fail under heavy loading or abuse. If you stare at the orientation of the bearings and understand the direction of the forces its apparent that the sleeve (or shim stack) doesn't experience any additional compressive force under heavy pinion loading accelerating or decelerating. The whole "my crush sleeve relaxed" thing is BS. If the sleeve relaxed you would actually gain pinion preload and wouldn't have the decel noise caused by a loose pinion fit. What actually happens is, as things wear and preload diminishes, the pinion nut can back off slightly and create the slop. Great job explaining this. Awesome video.
Ya know, you are right, if the crush sleeve got shorter, the preload goes up
The purpose of the crush sleeve is to keep the inner part of the front bearing from spinning on the pinion.
When you have bearing preload, the inner and outer race of the bearing have resistance to rotation to each other. This creates a likelihood of the inner bearing race to rotate on the pinion shaft. Look at a pinion shaft that has had a loss of pinion nut tq. It will appear polished where the inner race contacts it.
742 Mopar 8-3/4 doesn't use a crush collar. One of the reasons I like it.
What vehicles/years did that come in?
Good video Uncle Tony. Retired line tech here. New pinion nut ALWAYS and lots of red locktite. Never had a problem.
Every Uncle Tony's video I learn something new! Thank you so much for all your knowledge that you are putting out for us viewers from all around the world!!!
Never re-use the lock nut or the crush sleeve. In 45 years as a professional tech I have never ever had a pinion nut come loose. Use a dial indicating torque wrench to measure rotating torque (not for the pinion nut torque) and follow closely the specs for used and new bearings.
the inch pound dial wrench is a jewel for differential work!!!
@@MrChevelle83 Thanks, I neglected to mention inch pound.
you crushed that video
On my mud truck I re geared the front axle from a 3.73 to a 5.13 and the only new stuff I put in were the gears. I was able to re use all the bearings, bolts, crush sleeve and seals. Kinda backyard hillbilly but it’s been working for me and it might work for you too, but that’s for you to find out
Been there, done that. The crush collar in my Chrystler 8.25 went bad. Ended up going with a crush collar elimination kit that allowed for the proper use of shims.
Yessss! Great video. I hate those damn things. Been using homemade machined tubes and shims on AMC 20s, all Dana, and even Unimog axles for 25 years. You just learned me a new thing. Someone makes kits. Thanks Uncle Tony!
diff specialist here. fair warning to guys that might try the solid shim route. sometimes it doesn't seem possible to get factory spec preload (btw Yukon I think had most rear specs for that) with the shims provided in a kit. what you do is lap the spacer in that situation a lot like uncle Tony had those kids do to resurface those heads using sandpaper and a flat surface. Just be prepared it can take a long frigging time. maybe grab a couple beers to sip on while you slide it back and forth for half hour maybe more if you're not familiar and keep checking preload.
I've been using the solid pinion spacers and shims from ratech for years. It's the best $25 you can buy when you are doing a rear end.
“One last thing…” Uncle Tony is our own Columbo. Stay safe man
I learn more from this guy....... And what a great teacher he is!
Mercedes-Benz used a notched pinion nut that would lock into place once the 'crush washer' was torqued and collapsed. Now I know what they were avoiding, thanks Tony.
I bought a new 92 Dakota 318 4x4 .My only new vehicle in this life. I kept it for 5 years and 50K miles and sold it to an old buddy. A week later the pinion nut backed off but luckily he parked it immediatley and I had triple A haul it to my shop. It did not hurt anything having about 11/2 threads still holding on. I checked the gear pattern and slop and reassembled with red loctite on the nut and drilled it and the pinion shaft for a cotter pin. I rented a big 250 lb torque wrench and tightened to spec. That could have killed my old lady and baby boy,I was so pissed off! He drove it another 150k with no issues.
The 'Yoke" on you Uncle Tony, & that's you're "PINION" !😂
You are 100% right! I've always hated that crush sleeve. I only had one fail of many but it sucks to kill someone's diff. over a cheap part. My boss ( mentor) explained the same issue with factory vs. impact. On a full rebuild we would use a giant breaker bar with the diff. either removed or turned to get full swing. We would try to tighten using even pressure without the dunga dunga gun.
same here man on me when i was 18 on my 56 chev.....he done it with breaker bar and pipe and explained....I had no clue then....it takes ALOT to crush a new one I learned......miss them ol timers...and Tony is pretty slick himself on things.
@@chrishensley6745 I agree the old school types (oops I'm there myself) have a lot of knowledge that is very valuable. See Nick's Garage!
I wish that the newer generation of mechanics better understand the exact methods rather than strongly using computer only methodology.
I had a hard time finding a sleeve many years ago for a 489 pumpkin. Drove a 55 mile round trip to get one. 70 challenger 383 2x4 for the new 4.56 gears. Worth the trouble.
Very good information here. Any chance you would like to tackle gear patterns and bluing?
No kidding! My turbo 318 Duster "relaxed" the crush sleeve in my 3.23 489 gearset. It totally wiped out both the ring and pinion, metal in all the bearings. I really thought we put crush sleeve eliminator in it(BTW Yukon has the best one for a 489 case Mopar) but we must not have, which was a big mistake. Losing the 1968 original 3.23 gearset has been rough.
Can't you just get the 3.23 gears out of another 1968 axle assembly?
@@DanEBoyd I could if I could find them. They were a beautiful set I found fairly local. They were nearly NOS quality. I will NEVER leave a crush sleeve in any 489 I build. Good thing my 741 case out of my 67 GTX doesn't have a crush sleeve, otherwise that would have been wrecked the way I drive it.
Here lately I have been doing so much differential work its making me wonder if deep down inside me I have a thing for rear ends...
I've put a rear end in my recliner a lot lately...does that count???
What a guy. You're a great teacher! Thank you.
As always, thanks so much for the info. Very educational!
thanks for the knowledge Uncle Tony! i didn't even know about this particular problem but i do now. I'm a fan of driving old cars so ill be on the lookout for "the noise"
Tony. There really should be a subscription to this channel. Thank you for your service, sir.
Very nice explanation on what's happening to make the drive and coast noise from a differential. Thanks!
Thanks for clarification on that, I have changed them but always just factory change, most people just put in a second hand unit easier 😅 ,thanks for sharing ,all the best to yous and your loved ones
I always get something from your video's Tony. Thanks.
What a coincidence you made this video, a few days ago I had to replace the pinion seal on my 88 f150 8.8 ford rear. I bought a new pinion seal and a new crush sleeve because I knew it was a one time use item. When I removed the driveshaft I planned on counting threads to save time re tensioning the pinion flange. It was so loose it had lots of play inward and outward, I’m shocked my rear isn’t smoked. I’ve had issues over the years with ford and Dana rears. Never had or seen issue with AAM axles.
Thanks man, i had no idea them things were hiding in there. Always good to know a new sound
Thanks for the education, it's always a good day when I learn something new...
Great video. Always learn something new every time I see your videos.
Thanks Uncle Tony! Brings back my first car memories, a Mustang. It had noisy bad pinion bearing. I followed shop manual including buying new crush spacer. Never knew why they used throw away spacer, but your production explanation says it all. Dad and I had drive yoke in vise and we torque wrenched over 200 ft lbs to start crush. Had to ask friendly trans shop for some yellow gear ink, so I could set ring gear pattern. Must have learned something because I remember ! 😊
I KNOW WHATS WRONG WITH IT IT'S A DODGE
Just put a sure-grip 8.25 Chrysler in my XJ Cherokee. Got the noise and you just figured it out for me. Thank you for saving me the time trying to figure it out. I had to change the Yoke because the one on it was messed up. Thought I torqued it and used the right amount of red thread lock but I guess not. 😢
International Harvester never used those.
You are correct Tony, those things are annoying.
Interesting video Tony. Finally got a car to play with. 64 Galaxie. Never knew about the crush collar. Thanks. Going through your videos to get a better understanding.
Listen to your Uncle Tony boys and girls....100 percent gold.
Learned something new again today …Have cars since my 1951 Dodge Cornet 4 door tank in 1959 …AND HAVE NEVER BEEN INTO A DIFFERENTIAL …and it was just a couple of years ago that I had somebody do something for my car …
All work on a car done by me since 1959 when I bought the 51 Dodge with a tree growing thru the engine compartment ..the dealer said I could have the car for 50 bucks if I could get it started …I did!!!!!!!
Never saw this part before !!!
This is excellent Tony, thank you.
Doin carrier bearings in my 12 bolt corp.
Great info and timely. Top notch!
Love ya always uncle!
Love the 😍 crush. New pinion nut comes with prevailing torque feature to keep the sleeve sprung with tension. Loctite or double nut when I'm 💔 broke.
Very entertaining and fun to watch. Thanks for posting this.
I always get something out of your videos Tony. Thanks.
I never knew these existed. And now one of them can wreck my day. This is going to give me hives.
Thanks Tony
Wow, that's huge. On the manufacturer diffs I worked on had rather small ones. And luckily I never had an issue. Luckily they rarely needed rebuilding or replacements.
Great info. Tony.
Truth. Been there, heard that. Followed shortly thereafter by the driveshaft flopping round, falling out, and getting run over by the rear wheels. 😕
Thank you UT. great tip.
I've wondered about how that works. Excellent explanation Tony
Oh do I know that sound! Bought a used '06 Jeep TJ that had been regeared. Well I bought it two days before a 1000 Mike round-trip road trip. It was a pain & multiple trips to the dealership to ensure them it was from the rear diff & took me recording the studio & giving them the exact conditions. I thought the rear diff wasn't shimmed correctly, but likely it was them reusing the rear crush collar. Good to know.!
Thank you!
Had a friend who'd been a dealership mechanic show me how to put a crush sleeve over a round mandrel and smack it evenly around it's circumference to stretch the crush sleeve back out enough to be able to take a preload again.
It's not the RIGHT way, but if there's no part available it's A way to get one back on the road, cheap.
Very good info. Thank you.
Explained in the simplest of ways, Thanks UT
Thanks, man! Great to know.
I've done many differentials. Stock, and drag racing. Never had one come off. Always used a 4-foot pipe wrench on the yoke and a 4-foot breaker bar to crush the collar. Use a little blue loctite, sneak up on it while checking the preload with an inch pound torque wrench, run it with no load when you're finished for 20 minutes. Take it for a ride, bring it back and let cool overnight. It's ready for the track.
Crush sleeves are one of the parts I always regret walking into an auto parts store and asking for. Might as well be asking for CB antenna tuning fluid.
Windshield wiper arm brake caliper pads.
Really good video. Great information. Thanks
I never heard that had to be replaced when the nut was loosened for any reason. wow great knowledge to have now, thanks! Thank the car lord below that Rock Auto sells them for my rear end. They call it crush sleeve.
Great video.Thanks Unc
As a machinist, I hate crush sleeves. I would rather take the extra time and shim it to the correct tolerance.
Same here, learned the hard way!
ive turned a few in my lathe only for convenience and not for money savings
Great video.
I didn't know about all off that that was great ever time I watch I get something out of it bees in my head.
Get a solid spacer. Used solid spacers in my front D44 reverse high pinyon, and one in my Strange/Ford 9” rear. Buy duplicate bearings for everything, one set make “set up” bearings by honing to slip fit, and go with a solid spacer with assorted shims. The only way to set up gears
Good info tony ,
thank you
Uncle Tony makes shit I know nothing about sound interesting. 👍
Learned me something, thank you!
Thanks unk👍👍
good video uncle tony
never had one come loose and ive been driving a loooong time we use lead /solder method putting them together its just the way my uncle showed me and i figured it was how everyone put them together
It would be difficult with the one shown but in a pinch you can place the sleeve over a bar or the pinion itself, if you support it with soft wood, and hammer around on the high point of the sleeve diameter. This expands the sleeve. The preload for all GM axles I worked on was 15 inch pounds on used bearings and 30 inch pounds on new. This is easier with the carrier removed.
Thanks
Unrelated, but congratulations on that wee 318!
Another great why and how lesson, 10 out of 10
I did that on My diffrential. No kits available got spacer machined and got lucky that i was able to use old shim and perfecto
While you were doing this video I was thinking that you could take the old crush collar, measure it precisely with a set of calipers or a micrometer, then duplicate that length in a fabricated spacer on the lathe, then re-install with a few ugga duggas on the impact. No need to mess around with pre-load then, because it was already set the last time you put it together, and that old crush collar is the exact right length to get it there.
The crush collar may try to spring back to its original length once the pinion nut is removed. If you measure that your machines part could be 1-2 thousands too long. The rotational torque required to turn the reassembled pinion assembly will determine if the preload is where it should be. So you could machine off a micron at a time until you get the right preload torque.
I worked in a Calif farming town in a mom pop parts store. The town was flooded with Astro vans used for farm labor transport. We were on the main entrance to town and the vans would back off the gas right in front of our store. I swear, every rear end howled as they came into town. We stocked all the bearings, seals, crush, gaskets needed to fix these things. We only ever sold the pinion seal. Once, while delivering parts, I saw the shop owner take an air gun and rattle tattle tighten down the pinion nut as far as it would go..
I use a 1/4” drive beam type torque wrench to check pinion bearing preload. It’s 8 to 14 in lbs on a Ford 8.8. I always went for 11in lbs of drag. It’s best to use a 3/4” drive ratchet to tighten that pinion nut to set the preload. A 1/2” drive breaker bar is too springy to feel small incremental movements of the pinion nut to set that preload. Use red Locktite always on that pinion nut.
At one time I used to build them by feel, back lash pre load all of it, but I was building Dana 80’s. Its been so long since I’ve built one I’d have to drag out the gages and dial indicators now.
one bit me 2 months ago. had to drive 8 hours away to pick up a new diff. There are no crush collars available for the 3.91 Chrysler rear end. They don't even have a rebuild kit for the bearings or gears. The local dealers have to source differentials from local salvage/junk yards.
Thank you UTG, could you talk about c clip eliminaters? Are they good for street cars, road course cars, towing, 4x4, drag? I am grateful for your channel.
Best explanation on the internet
Wow! I bet this is my issue. I thought it to be something out of balance in either the engine or tranny. 1962 F-100 w/ a 9".
I'll be changing to a later year model used 9" rearend shortly. I'll know what is then for sure....dang it, unless it has the same problem.
Great video!
Great video, I am doing a early 742 no crush sleeve shims it is hard to get the preload just right had to make shims can't find any here in Canada.
When crushing these crush sleeves the way I do it on every diff is turn the pinion with a in pound torque wrench and tighten the nut until you have 20in lbs of rolling resistance or 30 for new bearings
Very Informative !! .....Why not Double Jam nut using a 2nd nut to prevent the nut backoff ??
Just had a pinion nut come loose after this video came out. Thank you.
What I always loved is this. Once torqued, if you loosen the nut you're supposed to replace the crush sleeve. But you are supposed to measure bearing preload without the seal in place since it causes drag and gives a false reading. So, you crush the sleeve, find preload, but somehow have to install the seal without taking the nut off? Hmmm....
This is why when I replaced my leaking pinion seal, I just removed the nut and yoke, installed the new seal then installed the yoke and nut, tightened the nut just enough to remove any perceptible bearing play and turned with no binding. Rear was fine, no noise.
THANK YOU. !Awesome! Word To *The Wise*.