It's also worth noting here somewhere that the concept of The Lady of Pain was drawn from a poem by Charles Algernon Swinburne, titled Dolores, or Notre Dame de Sept Dolours. Really interesting poem, and can lend some of the "very much beyond you" mystery to the characterization of the Lady.
Interesting, especially since the name “Dolores” means (basically) bearer of the sorrows of Mary (Virgin Mary). The idea being that your can hold the worst sorrows (as Mary watched her only child be tortured and killed) and still be able to move forward. This kind of take would be an interesting twist on the lady of pain, if someone wanted to try and make her seem like a villain at first in their campaign before revealing that she bears the sorrows, but does not give them.
If you can find a copy of it, Polyhedron 127 has an article by Monte Cook about a Sigil holiday called The Day of Grace. It commemorates the time a small girl walked up to The Lady, spoke to The Lady, & wasn't destroyed by Her; no one knows what the child said, but Her Serenity passed the girl by without hurting her.
@@celdur4635 4:06-4:23. The little girl is the only being known to have approached, let alone spoken with, Her Serenity without being flayed. And it's not canon.
From the Wikipedia page for Loviatar, the Finnish goddess of death and disease, she was impregnated by a wind and birthed “the 9 diseases.” However, there is a tale of a tenth child, a girl. I imagine the story you’re referencing is acknowledging the tenth child.
@fucku weebsnfuries go shove your void filled bone-box in a tarrasque playhole Addle-Coved berk, and leave the Kriegstanz for the real spivs and cutters. ;)
An over arching theme in my campaigns is an unknown force that always leave an acorn as a calling card when they interviene. Players think it's a genie or dragon or God. It's 🐿️
27: "The Lady of Pain is not a deity, but is possibly just as strong". She isn't a god, but she is a "Power". That's the Planescape umbrella-term for gods, archfey, primordials, archdevils, demon lords, etc. She did kill a god with just a thought, and while gods have been given stats, her statblock is just "You lose". She is well beyond gods.
Theory- Maybe the Lady of Pain is not in fact the ruler of Sigil, or it's guardian or anything; maybe she is a PRISONER, and all of her "powers" are actually defensive spells meant to dissuade people from interacting with her. When people pray to her, they get gashes; when they try and interact with her, the maze is created to get rid of them lest they free her (intentionally or not), not because of her own efforts but the effects of the magic used on her. Perhaps Sigil began as her prison and spells don't work because that was the best way to keep her locked in, and over time a city was built there because people found a True Neutral location convenient for trade, without knowing what was really going on, and the powers that put the Lady there allowed it because the traders were viewed as being unable to do much to free her and thus not a threat. Just a thought, based on this video. Have never played Planescape, so don't know if this would hold up.
I theorize that sigil is the 'nut' or 'hub' that secures the 'bolt' or 'axle' of the multiverse in place, enabling the realms to continue functioning. Without it, the realms could collapse, fly apart, or worse - open up to the far realms. Because sigil is perhaps the most important place in the multiverse, its protection could never be trusted to gods; only something higher. She's far more powerful than the other gods, and also far older too. So that's what I think the Lady of Pain is, another overgod like Ao or something similar.
@@Tiniuc nah. AO was so old and powerful people don't even think he's real. This one has a physical form and way too many people have seen her. Hardly on the same level as AO.
@@christopherbravo1813 Being True Neutral doesn't mean you can't be imprisoned, and Sigil might be a TN city but that doesn't mean that everyone who lives there also is
I have a personal headcanon that the Lady of Pain is one of a few entities, beyond the gods, that are multiversal concepts. Her name is apt, as my idea is she is the avatar of multiversal pain, brought into existence by one of the earliest multiversal disasters. Sigil then is both her prison and a way to protect the multiverse from her. She is there willingly, defending her right to keep her pain away from the rest of Reality. She keeps the gods away because they are the only beings who might reach the power needed to use her, and she abhors worship of herself because it is a travesty to worship multiversal pain.
Dude... I'm totally making this head canon as well. Pain is a tool used by despots and tyrants; There appears to be enough good within her to not wish the pain that she bears to be visited on others.
Kind of like how "Death" is a concept and made manifest... that's a very Marvel "Cosmic Beings" list type of headcannon though that really does a planescape game wonders. I like it! Killing her would not be desirable necessarily because then you kill everyone's ability to feel pain which is just a state of existence for any sentient creature for the most part. Always fun to throw in the personification of concepts into a planescape game as a thing that walks, possibly talks, and smacks you around a bit.
One player once played a minotaur, intending to use their natural ability to find their way through mazes to get out of the maze tra-la-la after ticking off the Lady... she placed him in a 'maze' that was a single long hallway that would take the rise and fall of civilizations to reach the end of.
I played Sigil as a sentient pocket universe. It was a universe that existed before the big bang. After expansion, it fell back into a Big Crunch. As it compressed it gained sentience and managed to encase itself into a protection circle and cast itself into the position above the Outlands. The Lady of Pain was the manifestation of the will of Sigil and powerful beyond measure because of it's age and accumulated wisdom.
It's safe to say the Lady is an Overpower, like Ao. A power as above the gods as gods are above mortals. They aren't interested in the wars between order and chaos, good and evil, they just want to keep the universe in one piece.
IIRC gods entering Sigil, cause the multiverse to destabilise as told in Die Vecna Die, as the cage holds the ultimate power. If Vecna wasn't defeated back then, all realms and settings would be undone, but with Vecna becoming the one true god.
I always figured she was a god, she ascended where she is in Sigil and can't get out any more than other gods can get in, because in the ring around the spire even gods powers fail and they are unable or unwilling to cross that threshold. She doesn't need worshipers because she created her own race of them with the Dabus. That's mostly the way I handled her when running a Planescape game myself but meh... she's a mystery on purpose so each DM can decide for themselves if they choose to.
In my Homebrew world the Lady of Pain is one of the three gods that created the Universe itself :D And she is the only one that wasn't torn asunder during the big bang.
A clarification: Die Vecna Die! was not written by any of the staff that wrote the Planescape Campaign Setting, so it's kinda hard to justify using information from the adventure in analyses. In a way, it's almost a fan's headcanon inserted unceremoniously into the "canon" of the setting. On a different note, the Faction War actually confirms the possibility of escaping mazes. Factol Rowan Darkwood, Factol of the Fated, gets mazed on the 19th day of the Faction War. He survives and becomes known as Gifad, but is also somehow pushed backwards in time. Basically: Darkwood finds and procures the "Labyrinth Stone" before the Faction War. He communicates with the spirit trapped in the gem and learns the "Sigil Spell", which is powerful enough to redefine Sigil, with the potential of defeating the Lady of Pain. Darkwood is then mazed, but escapes due to a prepared Wish spell. Like any good Wish spell, it works in unexpected ways, sending him 500 years in the past, an amnesiac that is confined to the Gatehouse. During the War, he escapes the Gatehouse, regains his wits, and attempts to use the spell again. This time, The Lady of Pain sends him back more than 10,000 years, where he suffers amnesia again, is sold into slavery. This incarnation of Darkwood becomes a great wizard that "returns" to Sigil and begins creating the Sigil Spell. The Lady of Pain imprisons him in the Labyrinth Stone and the stone ends up in Pandemonium. He does not survive the Faction War though. The only Factol to do so is Rhys of the Transcendent Order.
@@jasonvernish7366 Factol Skall and Factol Erin Montgomery do "survive", but not in a meaningful sense. Skall is mazed on day 9, and Erin Montgomery on day 5. Interestingly, Rhys no longer remains a Factol, but becomes a seat on the Sigil Advisory Council. With the Great Gymnasium no longer run by The Transcendent Order, a group of Ysgardian fitness buff Hill Giants take over the management of the gym. I picture it like the old SNL "Hans and Franz".
Only speaking for myself but I could care less what the original staff wrote or didn't write. I simply take the materials published by the company and use what works best for my setting's OverWorld and Campaign (OWAC) and leave what doesn't. If it doesn't serve the DM's OWAC, then the DM is free to drop it. There's a reason why Lady of Pain is left "mysterious." It's a secret meant for the DM to create. Just like what happens at the top of Mt Celestia. A mystery for the DM to fill in. Personally, I'm a big fan of the idea someone else said: a player character who ascended into godhood but was imprisoned by the gods for doing so and Sigil was really created to be her prison. That would explain why it's oldest name is The Bird Cage.
Love love love when Sigil and Planescape stuff is introduced into campaigns. In 3.5 I played a Beguiler who came from Sigil. Key character trait was being all "wait, no, guys, you can be friends with a devil. I've gotten drinks with a devil. You need to watch out for the sycophantic ones I guess, but they're still people." My character had an intense interest in the "balance" of the planes - their perspective being, outsiders are containers for the goop that is raw law, chaos, evil, good. For "good" to happen in the Prime Material, an equal and opposite evil must also exist. So like the Blood War - locking evil goop into investing its energy into fighting other evil goop - literally central to saving an orphanage not also causing the village a few miles away to be tortured by demon cultists. Bolstering evil that does not do harm to innocents is equally as important as saving innocents. If you just do good and don't manage where thr resulting evil to balance it manifests, you'd might as well not bother - because the equal evil you also just newly forced to exist is gonna manifest the evil points needed to raise some demons their "I died but not really" reconstitution soup, and they'll torture some babies once back, or something. Clearly you did not mean to torture babies by saving this town. But at the end of the day you reaalllllllyyyyyy need to fathom it as both saving a town and causing babies to now be tortured, where they wouldn't be otherwise. Because you ended prior evil and introduced new good. The universe now needs to forcefully insert new evil to keep everything balanced, and you 100% did not create a shard of pure evil you blasted into space so that the universe gets its balance + you doing good. Being holistically truly loving/good in this world is challenging and nuanced, if you don't just want to be the equal and opposite reaction to a demon lord gaining the energy to grant a new cult spells, that they use infuse evil into the prime material. No hate if you are a paladin of virtue. You're just a piece of the universe's balance in that case, vs. engineering actual good. If you want to be the universe's tool to balance when new evil is created, that is also an important role to play. The DM and I chatted about it and it worked out extremely cool. With this perspective, devils with Intelligence scores that make them have a lot of self-control + not being sycophantic murder hobos who can function without getting deleted in Sigil had a lot of respect for my perspective, thoroughly valuing them as instrumental parts of what I valued most, where I showed them genuine respect in-return. Could just be like "yeah I'm a bleeding heart goody two-shoes human and you have an itch to rip out my eyeballs, but we're both very able to not dive into our dumb instincts and be close friends, very glad we've had the chance to grow and learn from each other my Ultroloth compatriat. Hope we never meet on the Prime Material and gotta rip each other's throats out, would suck. Promise to laugh about it later at our favorite bar here if so." Also had a few angel friends, but they tended to be a lot more militant and a lot less respectful to the grand scales that weighed the outcomes they desired. The way it was played by the DM I also found a huge respect for Modrons, despite often disagreeing with each other. All-around, chaotic good Beguiler who resorted to friendship first, enchantments/illusions to manipulate desired outcomes second, escaping third, confrontation last. Sweet talking and magic-ing and viewing literally all perspectives as inherently valuable, to annihilate suffering at its core by any means necessary, being the core driver. Great adventure, where my character with Planescape-esque sensibilities could inform on discriminatory/dehumanizing understandings most prime material people have of outsiders. Which outside my personal motivations from above, was mostly how I added to the party's growth and tried to help them grow. Genuinely valuing and respecting the important role devils have to play in ensuring good is possible, and then respecting them as people worth caring about and understanding them as unique individuals by extension, who by all likelihood have saved more innocents by existing and being containers for an intense amount of evil goop than most well-intentioned people have done by "helping" - becoming friends with that devil and subtly pressuring them towards not targetting the prime material being extraordinarily more worthwhile and etc - being a simple example. Never had like a math equation for it, but for the planes to all be balanced in D&D lore 1 moderately powerful devil chilling = torture 10 innocents for their entire lives is sensible-ish as a guess. For 10 people to have extremely tranquil lives, either 1 devil who yeets into demons in the blood war, or torturing 10 people for their entire lives, is required. Looking at that chill blood war sergeant devil, look at them and see the embodiment of 10 people being granted the capacity to not be forced to suffer. If you want 10 people to be happy: respecting that devil/keeping them on a murder all demons path, and personally torturing 10 people for 50 years to generate equal intangible prime material evil energy that's not made of physical evil goop, have the same actual impact. Etc. It was a massively cool way to play a "manipulative" character. All while the party helped me challenge my weaknesses and taking in how they were uniquely capable of helping me grow, become a more holistic person, especially with the Druid introducing ideas about nature as conduits and an ultimate balancer for what I cared about, that really shook what I felt was a worthwhile way to do genuine good, passing the final burden off to things I'd refused to consider + a refusal to relinquish a sense of control being core to my ideals and the like.
i have a theory that the queen of pain was once a player character that transcended and became akin to a god. Her experience over time has led her to create a complete true neutral realm.
That makes sense. Tbh, I'm tired of Dieties or Powers in canon that are "too powerful" that they cannot be touched yet understood. The the alien mystery of the Obyriths fits that better. Also yeah, the Raven Queen is so odd and mysterious, its very possible she's just Shar or a daughter of hers.
Could you perhaps do a video on The Ancient Brethren and The Language Primeval? There seem to be a connection between that, and the World Serpent. The Netherscrolls are Called The Golden Skins of the World Serpent and Vecna describes how the Serpants speaks to him... Maybe its just another name for magic, but why would both the Sarrukh creator race, and Venca use that name for magic - the serpent. Also, The Lady of Pain is mentioned as a contemporary of the serpent. There is some connection, and its worth delving into! Cheers!
re: the tip of The Spire and magic Perhaps you are correct with the suggestion that the spire is, in fact, infinite but is also growing smaller as it rises. If you accept that as a premise, then perhaps it is proximity based on the circumference of the Spire at any given point that prevents magic from working. At the base, it is quite large and therefore, the distant at which it affects magic is quite large. But if the tip is growing infinitely smaller, perhaps the distance of the effect is as well.
The Lady of Pane is effectively the DM, hence she is never given a stat block. You can give her divine status if you want, but she is beyond even over gods, and all the powers that be. Cause at the end of the day, a DM can just say "Welp, that god and this world is gone."
I once played in a campaign where the BBEG was essentially a cult of assassins who believed they were carrying out the will of "The Lady of Blades" The party eventually ended up transported to the Outlands and discovered the true nature and origin of the cult before returning to the Prime and destroying the cult leader and disbanding the cultists. It was a neat way to introduce Planes travel, Sigil, and The Lady.
Further reading would be the novel Pages of Pain, wherein she's theorized as possibly being Poseidon's daughter, or Poseiden tries to trick her into thinking she's his daughter with implanted stolen memories...She traps the characters in a maze and it gives a lot of examples of how a planescape campaign can go totally sideways
'ancient brethren' includes The Serpent, the embodiment of all magic in Dungeons and Dragons, so she's AT LEAST equal to every magic user or force of magic in D&D... Now do you respect The Lady?
An ancient Power, like Ariman. My theory is that the Lady of Pain is a " LeShay " , an epic-level ,elf- like creature, who may have helped create the demiplane of Sigil as a refuge from the rising power of the Gods for her ' people' a very long time ago. Or, someone created a magical, cursed/ geased costume of the Lady of Pain that grants it's wearer incredible Power, but they cannot speak or ever leave Sigil.
Just finished PS:Torment and it blew my mind. I had no idea about The Lady going in but NPCs always warned me not to pray to her or bother her dabus or even try to discuss her too much. Just the way people spoke about her let me know that she was not to be fucked with. I was terrified of the doll and didn't have the balls to do anything but put it away again. Amazing setting. Subscribed.
The ring of gate-towns form the edge of the Outlands metaphysically, but not physically. The plane is infinite. It borders each of the other planes magically, not literally.
Actually, there is no evidence that Sigil is the same place as the ring on top of Outlands' spire. I mean, it is logical to assume that, but there are no proof. Sigil is not actually a torus, it's a ring with inhabitants walking on its inner side, and there is no spire visible outside of it, let alone Outlands. If one is to step out from the edge of the ring, it disappears and is never seen again. It is also impossible to climb the spire in the Outlands to confirm the ring on the top to be Sigil, for it is infinite.
Acererak is also supposed to be a-SAIR-rak not a-SER-uh-RAK, but the same people from WotC who tell us that also pronounce it the second way in casual conversation because the other way is just stupid.
It's irritating that he keeps saying "siggle." The word "sigil" is synonymous with both the words "seal" and "glyph" which both have deep significance to the city.
@Pentazer No, siggle is the official pronunciation. Luckily as a DM I can pronounce it in a way that doesn't sound like something from a kid's cartoon.
@Pentazer The pronunciation probably stemmed from a mispronunciation by a prominent figure at TSR or Wizards that was made canon. Any of the earlier edition pronunciation keys have it listed as siggle. I'm on mobile so can't find it, but yeah I had the same reaction you did at first.
I have a theory that sigil (and the pillar) are a shard of a different Crystal Sphere. When it came to realmspace (though the far realm*) it landed in the center of the outlands. The lady is the over god (like Ao), no gods can go there because it is treated like a difference crystal sphere and all the portals are because it tore tons of holes in reality when it landed. * there are two ways out of each reality (in my setting) the phlogiston and the far realm, most people use the phlogiston because it is much safer
I remember the Planescape CS under 2e. The reason I bought the boxed sets then was primarily for Tony Diterlizzis art. At the time the setting struck me as D&Ds version of RIFTS.
1:34 The Outlands also includes the middle ring. All the gate towns are said middle ring. The closer you get to the center the more TN the outlands get.
Played in a campaign where the Lady of Pain was trapped in a little girl's body and being forced by the drow to work for them. While on our first attempt to get across the bay, she came out on nowhere and sunk our boat. Since I was playing a half-angel, I was the only one about to fly, so I 1v1ed her in the air while everyone else swam to shore. I then tried to negotiate with her, but the drow called her back.
Planescape is so fascinating that i might get the new 5e version package just to delve in to the lore and adventures, even though i do not play or ever have played.
A few corrections from a guy who's too obsessed with the Planescape campaign setting (and has read each book, far too many times since their releases in the '90s). 1. She's not as old "as the gods" or Beginning, so to speak, because we know from other PS material that there was a time in which the city of Sigil did NOT exist at the top of the spire and sometime after it did finally appear, she was not in it (or did not make her presence known). 2. You can leave Mazes. Every Maze has an out, but given the Mazes have a habit of re-arranging themselves and being massive... Good luck. 3. If you want to know more about the Lady (including how she operates and a _possible_ origin, read the PS novel "Pages of Pain" by Troy Denning. It's actually good (the other PS novels are dogshit bad).
@@Jorphdan It's actually a pretty decent read that gives you a lot of insight into her and how she "works." The origin given is debatable, so if you don't like it you can just assume it's a lie and continue on.
Quibbles: 1. The Outlands are not a disk; the gate towns are arranged in a circle pattern around the spire, but the Outlands continue infinitely beyond the gate towns. This means the spire is also not the center of the Outlands as there is no center. This is much like the Outlands not being the center of the Great Wheel because the infinite Abyss contains infinite layers, which might include other Great Wheels or more unusual cosmologies. 2. Sigil is not confirmed to be the torus floating above the spire, as the view from Sigil is obstructed by smog and clouds at all times. Whereas the torus is visible without obscurement from the Outlands.
Oh, Planescape... so not Shar... I am by far the most knowledgeable about the Forgotten Realms setting... I know a good deal about the Dragonlance/Krynn setting from all of the novels, but all of the D&D games I have played are set in the Forgotten Realms/Toril universe. Even then it has been almost a decade since I was immersed in the lore and current with the more recent canon. I have been quite taken the past few years by the vast amounts of lore, and myriad numbers of short stories and novelizations from the Warhammer 40K/30K universe; and even a bit of the old world Warhammer fantasy. But I will always love the Forgotten Realms!
The Spire is not a rock formation. It is more like unto a whirlwind that is 1,000 miles at the base. The difficulty in understanding Sigil and the Coordinate Opposition is that the Spire is INFINITE in height and Sigil sits on top of that Infinity.
Not just as strong as a deity. She has powers that trump those of deities in many ways, and far surpasses them in both age and importance. She is more akin to an overgod, like Ao.
Ugh trump.... I know that is of no connection to anything beyond the comment of the subject matter, but the corrosive nature of very word has ruined what was a very insightful comment. Sorry, he did this too you, be mad at him.
@@osirisgem HAH, imagine how Adolfs everywhere felt. Don't let a bad experience ruin something for you. It is in your power to forgive the word, even if you can't forgive the person that carries it. I mean, there are hundreds of people that have Hitler as a surname and have no relation to the man.
Forgot the most important part, Lady of Pain has no stats, and it stats in the book anything quantified will fail to even harm the Lady of Pain. SHe could be on par with AO or not. since AO is also not quantified
ah yes I can see it already, introduce lady of pain by having party witness someone trying to get in her way maybe spook them into not bein so murder hobo like in sigil, party sees man die or get mortally wounded just from her glance, murder hobo party attacks lady of pain.
I’ve always considered the lady of pain to be a week extension of AO. They have a lot of similarities. He ignores all attacks and she does too. Both have no worshipers. She retaliates when somebody tries to worship her. Nothing happens with Ao . If I were running a campaign with the lady of pain, I would make it to where they see either sex at they expect if it was a guy he’d be called the gentleman of sorrow.
If you appreciate the Lady of Pain, the best way to aid her is not to think about her. Respect can often intrude upon reverence, and worship must be anathema to her existence as it's met with immediate flaying or mazing, usually both. Just ignore her. And NEVER interfere with the Dabus.
THEORY: Is it possible she is some part of the Witch Ravela? Driven out from her, became transcendent? Playing in Torment another time I came to this theory. There are a lot of clues: 1) both are known as the mystery 2) Lady of Pain mazes are a lot of grass, plants like Ravela magic 3) Ravela wanted realise Lady from prison so she probably had personal motivation to her 4) Lady of Pain seams to have similar nature, and role like Transcendent One - both prisoners in big fortress, both command strange clones creatures (shadows and Dabuses), both prisoned those who wanted interfier with them 5) Nameless one used for his purpose to brake his torment some good and pure girl, Ravela used him the same way, so it is a clue she had similar torment maybe 6) Ravelas question is key question in Torment so she must be much more relevant to the story than it seams to be 7) in this game nothing is created without sense, even side quests are clue how the storytelling works. This is theory based on Planescape: Torment. If somebody know lore more, it would be help and fun to show the week points.
That may be the canon pronunciation of the city but it still sounds jarring and wrong to my poor ears. At a guess, probably because I speak French rather than German
No Sir, this is English. Perhaps you have heard it, or read it somewhere? Ok real talk I find this comment annoying, mostly because it's so off topic and ...... well I want to say stupid, but my goal isn't to insult you, so I am at a loss.
@@osirisgem Are you brain-damaged or just racist? I can't decide which. As someone with a degree in English, I'm more than capable of recognizing it. The canon pronunciation of Sigil is the less common, German-sounding way of pronouncing the word. Most people I've met use a French-derived soft "g." Now explain why the fuck you felt the need to claim this is off-topic as though a.) this is a focused forum post and b.) Jorphdan didn't himself acknowledge the pronunciation I'm referring to.
nicholas schoonbeck it’s deliberate, the denizens of the cage do it to catch out newcomers who pronounce Sigil with a soft G as in the term for identifier marking or arcane marking. The Term is sigil with a soft g the Location is Sigil with a hard g.
Calling it, Lady of Pain is a Old One that made it to the astral planes in the primordial times before the gods made a effort to keep the Old Ones out.
Yes, then she created a ( no-go zone for the Gods) Demiplane of Sigil, to have a " safe space " from them and thier power. She's specifically adverse to being worshipped, and Will Not Allow Any Gods Into Sigil , Ever ! Agnostic ? High-level magic user ? Apparently immortal ? Absolutely will not be crossed,ever, without inflicting immediate and terrible blood - wounding magic harm/ death on any attacker.. Has never been defeated in combat ? What a facinating creature !
Im still confused about wether magic works in Sigil. Its at the center of a plane that prevents magic, but its clearly filled to the brim with magic. Can anyone provide answers?
I think, generally Spells, Psionics, and Magical Items dont work there yet magic itself still does. In some cases of the planes, the magic is so permanent/fixed that Antimagic wouldn't do anything. After all, the whole universe is magical yet animagic doesnt rip reality apart.
You know how golem can't talk, well theirs stories about the lady's shadow touching theirs. It's later said you'll hear the most unnatural wailings until the golem is no more.
It's also worth noting here somewhere that the concept of The Lady of Pain was drawn from a poem by Charles Algernon Swinburne, titled Dolores, or Notre Dame de Sept Dolours. Really interesting poem, and can lend some of the "very much beyond you" mystery to the characterization of the Lady.
There's a reading of it on TH-cam by Nick Gisburne -- th-cam.com/video/vVgpBZfLY7A/w-d-xo.html
Love the poem! Thinking of using the name "Dolores, Lady of Pain" for a boss encounter in a video game I'm working on. \o/
Interesting, especially since the name “Dolores” means (basically) bearer of the sorrows of Mary (Virgin Mary). The idea being that your can hold the worst sorrows (as Mary watched her only child be tortured and killed) and still be able to move forward. This kind of take would be an interesting twist on the lady of pain, if someone wanted to try and make her seem like a villain at first in their campaign before revealing that she bears the sorrows, but does not give them.
If you can find a copy of it, Polyhedron 127 has an article by Monte Cook about a Sigil holiday called The Day of Grace. It commemorates the time a small girl walked up to The Lady, spoke to The Lady, & wasn't destroyed by Her; no one knows what the child said, but Her Serenity passed the girl by without hurting her.
So it is assumed when other girls do this, they do get punished? so this was special?
@@celdur4635 4:06-4:23. The little girl is the only being known to have approached, let alone spoken with, Her Serenity without being flayed. And it's not canon.
@@davidcardoso3525 got it.
From the Wikipedia page for Loviatar, the Finnish goddess of death and disease, she was impregnated by a wind and birthed “the 9 diseases.” However, there is a tale of a tenth child, a girl. I imagine the story you’re referencing is acknowledging the tenth child.
She's actually six giant squirrels with a headdress, robe, and ring of levitation and illusions.
This is canon
Underrated comment
@fucku weebsnfuries pike off planar Kyle..
@fucku weebsnfuries go shove your void filled bone-box in a tarrasque playhole Addle-Coved berk, and leave the Kriegstanz for the real spivs and cutters. ;)
An over arching theme in my campaigns is an unknown force that always leave an acorn as a calling card when they interviene. Players think it's a genie or dragon or God. It's 🐿️
27: "The Lady of Pain is not a deity, but is possibly just as strong". She isn't a god, but she is a "Power". That's the Planescape umbrella-term for gods, archfey, primordials, archdevils, demon lords, etc.
She did kill a god with just a thought, and while gods have been given stats, her statblock is just "You lose". She is well beyond gods.
Morté: Yeah yeah, but I can still look up her dress, he he.
Aoskar was the god she killed.
@@peterjanssen5901 beware, for when you gaze too long into the abyss of her nethers, the abyss shall gaze back at you
@@Tiniuc Worth it, chief.
Gabriel Russell she’s the DM ^^
I mean, she's a cop for gods that presides over a donut. Oops she heard me: Amazed! ;)
That good!
The lady of pain: the paparazzi's natural enemy.
Lady Of Pain is basically "Don't start nothin', and there won't be nothin'."
Theory- Maybe the Lady of Pain is not in fact the ruler of Sigil, or it's guardian or anything; maybe she is a PRISONER, and all of her "powers" are actually defensive spells meant to dissuade people from interacting with her.
When people pray to her, they get gashes; when they try and interact with her, the maze is created to get rid of them lest they free her (intentionally or not), not because of her own efforts but the effects of the magic used on her.
Perhaps Sigil began as her prison and spells don't work because that was the best way to keep her locked in, and over time a city was built there because people found a True Neutral location convenient for trade, without knowing what was really going on, and the powers that put the Lady there allowed it because the traders were viewed as being unable to do much to free her and thus not a threat.
Just a thought, based on this video. Have never played Planescape, so don't know if this would hold up.
I theorize that sigil is the 'nut' or 'hub' that secures the 'bolt' or 'axle' of the multiverse in place, enabling the realms to continue functioning. Without it, the realms could collapse, fly apart, or worse - open up to the far realms. Because sigil is perhaps the most important place in the multiverse, its protection could never be trusted to gods; only something higher. She's far more powerful than the other gods, and also far older too. So that's what I think the Lady of Pain is, another overgod like Ao or something similar.
There’s a reason why one of the oldest names of Sigil is “The Cage”
@@Tiniuc nah.
AO was so old and powerful people don't even think he's real. This one has a physical form and way too many people have seen her. Hardly on the same level as AO.
but why would she be a prisoner if she's True Neutral?
and if she isn't True Neutral, then why is she in a True Neutral city?
@@christopherbravo1813 Being True Neutral doesn't mean you can't be imprisoned, and Sigil might be a TN city but that doesn't mean that everyone who lives there also is
I have a personal headcanon that the Lady of Pain is one of a few entities, beyond the gods, that are multiversal concepts. Her name is apt, as my idea is she is the avatar of multiversal pain, brought into existence by one of the earliest multiversal disasters. Sigil then is both her prison and a way to protect the multiverse from her. She is there willingly, defending her right to keep her pain away from the rest of Reality. She keeps the gods away because they are the only beings who might reach the power needed to use her, and she abhors worship of herself because it is a travesty to worship multiversal pain.
Dude...
I'm totally making this head canon as well.
Pain is a tool used by despots and tyrants; There appears to be enough good within her to not wish the pain that she bears to be visited on others.
Kind of like how "Death" is a concept and made manifest... that's a very Marvel "Cosmic Beings" list type of headcannon though that really does a planescape game wonders. I like it! Killing her would not be desirable necessarily because then you kill everyone's ability to feel pain which is just a state of existence for any sentient creature for the most part.
Always fun to throw in the personification of concepts into a planescape game as a thing that walks, possibly talks, and smacks you around a bit.
One player once played a minotaur, intending to use their natural ability to find their way through mazes to get out of the maze tra-la-la after ticking off the Lady... she placed him in a 'maze' that was a single long hallway that would take the rise and fall of civilizations to reach the end of.
I miss Spoony.
I played Sigil as a sentient pocket universe. It was a universe that existed before the big bang. After expansion, it fell back into a Big Crunch. As it compressed it gained sentience and managed to encase itself into a protection circle and cast itself into the position above the Outlands. The Lady of Pain was the manifestation of the will of Sigil and powerful beyond measure because of it's age and accumulated wisdom.
It's safe to say the Lady is an Overpower, like Ao. A power as above the gods as gods are above mortals. They aren't interested in the wars between order and chaos, good and evil, they just want to keep the universe in one piece.
IIRC gods entering Sigil, cause the multiverse to destabilise as told in Die Vecna Die, as the cage holds the ultimate power.
If Vecna wasn't defeated back then, all realms and settings would be undone, but with Vecna becoming the one true god.
I always figured she was a god, she ascended where she is in Sigil and can't get out any more than other gods can get in, because in the ring around the spire even gods powers fail and they are unable or unwilling to cross that threshold. She doesn't need worshipers because she created her own race of them with the Dabus. That's mostly the way I handled her when running a Planescape game myself but meh... she's a mystery on purpose so each DM can decide for themselves if they choose to.
In my Homebrew world the Lady of Pain is one of the three gods that created the Universe itself :D
And she is the only one that wasn't torn asunder during the big bang.
Stealing that idea :D
so she's the big sister of Jazirian and Asmodeus?
Jorphdan confirmed - Planescape setting book coming up next. Thanks Jorphdan.
I was wondering about that!
I'd be so happy to have that. Or spelljammer. Or both. Everything... I'm saying I want everything.
If you are right, I shall die of happiness
Please or dragonlance
Don't mess with the Lady of pain.
I'm so happy to see Jorphdan more and more again lately
Excited to be here! :D
@@Jorphdan I hope all is well at home and with the family!
Holy crap, I love planescape. Had all the 2nd edition boxed sets. So good to see this.
A clarification: Die Vecna Die! was not written by any of the staff that wrote the Planescape Campaign Setting, so it's kinda hard to justify using information from the adventure in analyses. In a way, it's almost a fan's headcanon inserted unceremoniously into the "canon" of the setting.
On a different note, the Faction War actually confirms the possibility of escaping mazes. Factol Rowan Darkwood, Factol of the Fated, gets mazed on the 19th day of the Faction War. He survives and becomes known as Gifad, but is also somehow pushed backwards in time. Basically: Darkwood finds and procures the "Labyrinth Stone" before the Faction War. He communicates with the spirit trapped in the gem and learns the "Sigil Spell", which is powerful enough to redefine Sigil, with the potential of defeating the Lady of Pain. Darkwood is then mazed, but escapes due to a prepared Wish spell. Like any good Wish spell, it works in unexpected ways, sending him 500 years in the past, an amnesiac that is confined to the Gatehouse.
During the War, he escapes the Gatehouse, regains his wits, and attempts to use the spell again. This time, The Lady of Pain sends him back more than 10,000 years, where he suffers amnesia again, is sold into slavery. This incarnation of Darkwood becomes a great wizard that "returns" to Sigil and begins creating the Sigil Spell. The Lady of Pain imprisons him in the Labyrinth Stone and the stone ends up in Pandemonium.
He does not survive the Faction War though. The only Factol to do so is Rhys of the Transcendent Order.
Wow
Wait i thought the sensate and dustmen factols survives too
@@jasonvernish7366 Factol Skall and Factol Erin Montgomery do "survive", but not in a meaningful sense. Skall is mazed on day 9, and Erin Montgomery on day 5.
Interestingly, Rhys no longer remains a Factol, but becomes a seat on the Sigil Advisory Council. With the Great Gymnasium no longer run by The Transcendent Order, a group of Ysgardian fitness buff Hill Giants take over the management of the gym. I picture it like the old SNL "Hans and Franz".
@@Wildstag oh i thought skull just bunked out in the negitive plane but ok then
Only speaking for myself but I could care less what the original staff wrote or didn't write. I simply take the materials published by the company and use what works best for my setting's OverWorld and Campaign (OWAC) and leave what doesn't. If it doesn't serve the DM's OWAC, then the DM is free to drop it. There's a reason why Lady of Pain is left "mysterious." It's a secret meant for the DM to create. Just like what happens at the top of Mt Celestia. A mystery for the DM to fill in.
Personally, I'm a big fan of the idea someone else said: a player character who ascended into godhood but was imprisoned by the gods for doing so and Sigil was really created to be her prison. That would explain why it's oldest name is The Bird Cage.
There is an exit to the mazes. They're just nearly impossible to find.
Always thought of Sigil as`` The Big Leagues ``.
Dude..... glad to see you covering arguably my favourite RPG setting of all time. Hope you continue with this.
Love love love when Sigil and Planescape stuff is introduced into campaigns. In 3.5 I played a Beguiler who came from Sigil. Key character trait was being all "wait, no, guys, you can be friends with a devil. I've gotten drinks with a devil. You need to watch out for the sycophantic ones I guess, but they're still people."
My character had an intense interest in the "balance" of the planes - their perspective being, outsiders are containers for the goop that is raw law, chaos, evil, good. For "good" to happen in the Prime Material, an equal and opposite evil must also exist. So like the Blood War - locking evil goop into investing its energy into fighting other evil goop - literally central to saving an orphanage not also causing the village a few miles away to be tortured by demon cultists. Bolstering evil that does not do harm to innocents is equally as important as saving innocents. If you just do good and don't manage where thr resulting evil to balance it manifests, you'd might as well not bother - because the equal evil you also just newly forced to exist is gonna manifest the evil points needed to raise some demons their "I died but not really" reconstitution soup, and they'll torture some babies once back, or something. Clearly you did not mean to torture babies by saving this town. But at the end of the day you reaalllllllyyyyyy need to fathom it as both saving a town and causing babies to now be tortured, where they wouldn't be otherwise. Because you ended prior evil and introduced new good. The universe now needs to forcefully insert new evil to keep everything balanced, and you 100% did not create a shard of pure evil you blasted into space so that the universe gets its balance + you doing good. Being holistically truly loving/good in this world is challenging and nuanced, if you don't just want to be the equal and opposite reaction to a demon lord gaining the energy to grant a new cult spells, that they use infuse evil into the prime material. No hate if you are a paladin of virtue. You're just a piece of the universe's balance in that case, vs. engineering actual good. If you want to be the universe's tool to balance when new evil is created, that is also an important role to play.
The DM and I chatted about it and it worked out extremely cool. With this perspective, devils with Intelligence scores that make them have a lot of self-control + not being sycophantic murder hobos who can function without getting deleted in Sigil had a lot of respect for my perspective, thoroughly valuing them as instrumental parts of what I valued most, where I showed them genuine respect in-return. Could just be like "yeah I'm a bleeding heart goody two-shoes human and you have an itch to rip out my eyeballs, but we're both very able to not dive into our dumb instincts and be close friends, very glad we've had the chance to grow and learn from each other my Ultroloth compatriat. Hope we never meet on the Prime Material and gotta rip each other's throats out, would suck. Promise to laugh about it later at our favorite bar here if so." Also had a few angel friends, but they tended to be a lot more militant and a lot less respectful to the grand scales that weighed the outcomes they desired. The way it was played by the DM I also found a huge respect for Modrons, despite often disagreeing with each other.
All-around, chaotic good Beguiler who resorted to friendship first, enchantments/illusions to manipulate desired outcomes second, escaping third, confrontation last. Sweet talking and magic-ing and viewing literally all perspectives as inherently valuable, to annihilate suffering at its core by any means necessary, being the core driver.
Great adventure, where my character with Planescape-esque sensibilities could inform on discriminatory/dehumanizing understandings most prime material people have of outsiders. Which outside my personal motivations from above, was mostly how I added to the party's growth and tried to help them grow. Genuinely valuing and respecting the important role devils have to play in ensuring good is possible, and then respecting them as people worth caring about and understanding them as unique individuals by extension, who by all likelihood have saved more innocents by existing and being containers for an intense amount of evil goop than most well-intentioned people have done by "helping" - becoming friends with that devil and subtly pressuring them towards not targetting the prime material being extraordinarily more worthwhile and etc - being a simple example. Never had like a math equation for it, but for the planes to all be balanced in D&D lore 1 moderately powerful devil chilling = torture 10 innocents for their entire lives is sensible-ish as a guess. For 10 people to have extremely tranquil lives, either 1 devil who yeets into demons in the blood war, or torturing 10 people for their entire lives, is required. Looking at that chill blood war sergeant devil, look at them and see the embodiment of 10 people being granted the capacity to not be forced to suffer. If you want 10 people to be happy: respecting that devil/keeping them on a murder all demons path, and personally torturing 10 people for 50 years to generate equal intangible prime material evil energy that's not made of physical evil goop, have the same actual impact. Etc. It was a massively cool way to play a "manipulative" character. All while the party helped me challenge my weaknesses and taking in how they were uniquely capable of helping me grow, become a more holistic person, especially with the Druid introducing ideas about nature as conduits and an ultimate balancer for what I cared about, that really shook what I felt was a worthwhile way to do genuine good, passing the final burden off to things I'd refused to consider + a refusal to relinquish a sense of control being core to my ideals and the like.
i have a theory that the queen of pain was once a player character that transcended and became akin to a god. Her experience over time has led her to create a complete true neutral realm.
Thank you for proper pronunciation of Sigil!
heck yeah! You'd be surprised how many people comment that I'm wrong.
I've always used the lady of pain as an Obyrith.
And the Raven Queen an aspect of Shar.
That makes sense. Tbh, I'm tired of Dieties or Powers in canon that are "too powerful" that they cannot be touched yet understood. The the alien mystery of the Obyriths fits that better.
Also yeah, the Raven Queen is so odd and mysterious, its very possible she's just Shar or a daughter of hers.
Yeah the Lady of Pain as an Obyrith made sense to me. Just looking at their specific lore.
Could you perhaps do a video on The Ancient Brethren and The Language Primeval? There seem to be a connection between that, and the World Serpent. The Netherscrolls are Called The Golden Skins of the World Serpent and Vecna describes how the Serpants speaks to him... Maybe its just another name for magic, but why would both the Sarrukh creator race, and Venca use that name for magic - the serpent. Also, The Lady of Pain is mentioned as a contemporary of the serpent. There is some connection, and its worth delving into!
Cheers!
Could be super interesting. I'll see what I can come up with!
@@Jorphdan Sweet! Cheers!
the campaign I just finished was based around this connection. Was super cool.
Please. The world serpent is something I don’t know much about. A video would help.
re: the tip of The Spire and magic
Perhaps you are correct with the suggestion that the spire is, in fact, infinite but is also growing smaller as it rises.
If you accept that as a premise, then perhaps it is proximity based on the circumference of the Spire at any given point that prevents magic from working.
At the base, it is quite large and therefore, the distant at which it affects magic is quite large. But if the tip is growing infinitely smaller, perhaps the distance of the effect is as well.
The Lady of Pane is effectively the DM, hence she is never given a stat block. You can give her divine status if you want, but she is beyond even over gods, and all the powers that be. Cause at the end of the day, a DM can just say "Welp, that god and this world is gone."
I once played in a campaign where the BBEG was essentially a cult of assassins who believed they were carrying out the will of "The Lady of Blades" The party eventually ended up transported to the Outlands and discovered the true nature and origin of the cult before returning to the Prime and destroying the cult leader and disbanding the cultists. It was a neat way to introduce Planes travel, Sigil, and The Lady.
Wait doesn't she normally just kill any attempted worshipers?
Further reading would be the novel Pages of Pain, wherein she's theorized as possibly being Poseidon's daughter, or Poseiden tries to trick her into thinking she's his daughter with implanted stolen memories...She traps the characters in a maze and it gives a lot of examples of how a planescape campaign can go totally sideways
'ancient brethren' includes The Serpent, the embodiment of all magic in Dungeons and Dragons, so she's AT LEAST equal to every magic user or force of magic in D&D... Now do you respect The Lady?
An ancient Power, like Ariman. My theory is that the Lady of Pain is a " LeShay " , an epic-level ,elf- like creature, who may have helped create the demiplane of Sigil as a refuge from the rising power of the Gods for her ' people' a very long time ago.
Or, someone created a magical, cursed/ geased costume of the Lady of Pain that grants it's wearer incredible Power, but they cannot speak or ever leave Sigil.
Mystic and somber Dolores, Our Lady of Pain
The closer one gets to sigil the more magical and psionic energy gets absorbed by the lady of pain to run to operate all of the portals.
Just finished PS:Torment and it blew my mind. I had no idea about The Lady going in but NPCs always warned me not to pray to her or bother her dabus or even try to discuss her too much. Just the way people spoke about her let me know that she was not to be fucked with. I was terrified of the doll and didn't have the balls to do anything but put it away again. Amazing setting. Subscribed.
welcome!
The ring of gate-towns form the edge of the Outlands metaphysically, but not physically. The plane is infinite. It borders each of the other planes magically, not literally.
Maybe she's the dm...
Actually, there is no evidence that Sigil is the same place as the ring on top of Outlands' spire. I mean, it is logical to assume that, but there are no proof.
Sigil is not actually a torus, it's a ring with inhabitants walking on its inner side, and there is no spire visible outside of it, let alone Outlands. If one is to step out from the edge of the ring, it disappears and is never seen again.
It is also impossible to climb the spire in the Outlands to confirm the ring on the top to be Sigil, for it is infinite.
Si-Gil just sounds godawful compared to Si-Jil. Don't care about canon I'm keeping my pronounciation
Si-jil is also correct it is the UK pronunciation and yes it sounds a shit ton better than si-gul
Acererak is also supposed to be a-SAIR-rak not a-SER-uh-RAK, but the same people from WotC who tell us that also pronounce it the second way in casual conversation because the other way is just stupid.
It's irritating that he keeps saying "siggle." The word "sigil" is synonymous with both the words "seal" and "glyph" which both have deep significance to the city.
@Pentazer No, siggle is the official pronunciation. Luckily as a DM I can pronounce it in a way that doesn't sound like something from a kid's cartoon.
@Pentazer The pronunciation probably stemmed from a mispronunciation by a prominent figure at TSR or Wizards that was made canon. Any of the earlier edition pronunciation keys have it listed as siggle. I'm on mobile so can't find it, but yeah I had the same reaction you did at first.
Theory
The Lady of Pain is in fact an aspect of Ao, who's job it is to keep the Gods from destroying each other via Sigil
I have a theory that sigil (and the pillar) are a shard of a different Crystal Sphere. When it came to realmspace (though the far realm*) it landed in the center of the outlands. The lady is the over god (like Ao), no gods can go there because it is treated like a difference crystal sphere and all the portals are because it tore tons of holes in reality when it landed. * there are two ways out of each reality (in my setting) the phlogiston and the far realm, most people use the phlogiston because it is much safer
I remember the Planescape CS under 2e. The reason I bought the boxed sets then was primarily for Tony Diterlizzis art. At the time the setting struck me as D&Ds version of RIFTS.
I love planescape its so unique in its scope and lore
nice, concise, and told me what I came looking to find.
1:34 The Outlands also includes the middle ring. All the gate towns are said middle ring. The closer you get to the center the more TN the outlands get.
The Gate Towns are in the 9th Ring.
@@AdvyDeven I'm not talking aboot Sigil's geography and how it relates to the spire's effects, I'm talking aboot the image at the timestamp.
Hey Jorphdan, thanks for covering one of my favorite campaign settings! Your videos are great so keep up the amazing work!
Thanks so much! Glad to hear it :D
Played in a campaign where the Lady of Pain was trapped in a little girl's body and being forced by the drow to work for them. While on our first attempt to get across the bay, she came out on nowhere and sunk our boat. Since I was playing a half-angel, I was the only one about to fly, so I 1v1ed her in the air while everyone else swam to shore. I then tried to negotiate with her, but the drow called her back.
FINALLY! :D
...sort of, not my most requested lass of the planes but number 2 very least :)
Planescape is so fascinating that i might get the new 5e version package just to delve in to the lore and adventures, even though i do not play or ever have played.
the city of SIGGLE
A few corrections from a guy who's too obsessed with the Planescape campaign setting (and has read each book, far too many times since their releases in the '90s).
1. She's not as old "as the gods" or Beginning, so to speak, because we know from other PS material that there was a time in which the city of Sigil did NOT exist at the top of the spire and sometime after it did finally appear, she was not in it (or did not make her presence known).
2. You can leave Mazes. Every Maze has an out, but given the Mazes have a habit of re-arranging themselves and being massive... Good luck.
3. If you want to know more about the Lady (including how she operates and a _possible_ origin, read the PS novel "Pages of Pain" by Troy Denning. It's actually good (the other PS novels are dogshit bad).
Thanks! I'll have to read Pages of Pain!
@@Jorphdan It's actually a pretty decent read that gives you a lot of insight into her and how she "works." The origin given is debatable, so if you don't like it you can just assume it's a lie and continue on.
0:04 is that cloak part of a Wirt cosplay? It looks awesome! Reminds me of Over The Garden Wall.
It is actually part of my over the garden wall cosplay.
I wore it in that photo for a play reading of "she kills monsters" that I was in
@@Jorphdan that's awesome! It's really well made.
after watching I have more questions about the Lady than before!
She is the DM.
Simple as that.
Quibbles:
1. The Outlands are not a disk; the gate towns are arranged in a circle pattern around the spire, but the Outlands continue infinitely beyond the gate towns. This means the spire is also not the center of the Outlands as there is no center. This is much like the Outlands not being the center of the Great Wheel because the infinite Abyss contains infinite layers, which might include other Great Wheels or more unusual cosmologies.
2. Sigil is not confirmed to be the torus floating above the spire, as the view from Sigil is obstructed by smog and clouds at all times. Whereas the torus is visible without obscurement from the Outlands.
Great Video! Please do one for Dragon Kings of Athas in the Dark Sun Campaign setting
Oh, Planescape... so not Shar... I am by far the most knowledgeable about the Forgotten Realms setting... I know a good deal about the Dragonlance/Krynn setting from all of the novels, but all of the D&D games I have played are set in the Forgotten Realms/Toril universe.
Even then it has been almost a decade since I was immersed in the lore and current with the more recent canon.
I have been quite taken the past few years by the vast amounts of lore, and myriad numbers of short stories and novelizations from the Warhammer 40K/30K universe; and even a bit of the old world Warhammer fantasy.
But I will always love the Forgotten Realms!
Hello i love sigil and the lady of pain
Fantastic video Jorphdan! Thanks for sharing.
She'd be stuck a cool Warlock patron
My absolute favorite Entity!
The Spire is not a rock formation. It is more like unto a whirlwind that is 1,000 miles at the base. The difficulty in understanding Sigil and the Coordinate Opposition is that the Spire is INFINITE in height and Sigil sits on top of that Infinity.
Not just as strong as a deity. She has powers that trump those of deities in many ways, and far surpasses them in both age and importance. She is more akin to an overgod, like Ao.
Ugh trump.... I know that is of no connection to anything beyond the comment of the subject matter, but the corrosive nature of very word has ruined what was a very insightful comment. Sorry, he did this too you, be mad at him.
@@osirisgem HAH, imagine how Adolfs everywhere felt.
Don't let a bad experience ruin something for you. It is in your power to forgive the word, even if you can't forgive the person that carries it.
I mean, there are hundreds of people that have Hitler as a surname and have no relation to the man.
AJ Pickett goes pretty in-depth in the sigil and the lady of pain at least as far as can canonically
@AJPickett's the best!
Lady of Pain best waifu
I mean if you're an immortal masochist.
@@patrickdees5256 She a_mazes me every time I see her
@@begone2753 bet you give the Grim Reaper a migraine, with how many time you die. XD
Forgot the most important part, Lady of Pain has no stats, and it stats in the book anything quantified will fail to even harm the Lady of Pain. SHe could be on par with AO or not. since AO is also not quantified
The Lady of Pain is definitely as powerful as the gods, possibly all of them combined, given that she doesn't allow them to enter Sigil
Maybe the lady is just 3 kobolds standing on each other and they have no idea on how or why they ended up here
No, you got the pronunciation of Sigil right in the previous video.
th-cam.com/video/DR8s1Ai6_xM/w-d-xo.html
I always thought that the True Neutral Plane is the Prime material plane
Such a cool concept. Great video I like how you present the information.
Thanks!
please someone give her some bread! I mean, she's the Lady of Pain, not the lady of Baguette or of Croissant
thanks dad, very cool
ah yes I can see it already, introduce lady of pain by having party witness someone trying to get in her way maybe spook them into not bein so murder hobo like in sigil, party sees man die or get mortally wounded just from her glance, murder hobo party attacks lady of pain.
The Lady controls all the doors yes? So what prisoner has keys to the gates of their own prison…?…
I’ve always considered the lady of pain to be a week extension of AO. They have a lot of similarities. He ignores all attacks and she does too. Both have no worshipers. She retaliates when somebody tries to worship her. Nothing happens with Ao . If I were running a campaign with the lady of pain, I would make it to where they see either sex at they expect if it was a guy he’d be called the gentleman of sorrow.
Imagine being so stupid that you have swords on your head...
- This message is endorsed by the gang of Aoskar.
BR Meme on a dnd lore video....
Sim... nos estamos nos expandindo!!!!
If you appreciate the Lady of Pain, the best way to aid her is not to think about her. Respect can often intrude upon reverence, and worship must be anathema to her existence as it's met with immediate flaying or mazing, usually both.
Just ignore her.
And NEVER interfere with the Dabus.
Idea: a masochist warlock who’s patron is the lady of pain.
Aww yeah. My favorite topic.
THEORY: Is it possible she is some part of the Witch Ravela? Driven out from her, became transcendent? Playing in Torment another time I came to this theory. There are a lot of clues:
1) both are known as the mystery
2) Lady of Pain mazes are a lot of grass, plants like Ravela magic
3) Ravela wanted realise Lady from prison so she probably had personal motivation to her
4) Lady of Pain seams to have similar nature, and role like Transcendent One - both prisoners in big fortress, both command strange clones creatures (shadows and Dabuses), both prisoned those who wanted interfier with them
5) Nameless one used for his purpose to brake his torment some good and pure girl, Ravela used him the same way, so it is a clue she had similar torment maybe
6) Ravelas question is key question in Torment so she must be much more relevant to the story than it seams to be
7) in this game nothing is created without sense, even side quests are clue how the storytelling works.
This is theory based on Planescape: Torment. If somebody know lore more, it would be help and fun to show the week points.
Excellent choice for a video!!!
Thanks!
That may be the canon pronunciation of the city but it still sounds jarring and wrong to my poor ears. At a guess, probably because I speak French rather than German
No Sir, this is English. Perhaps you have heard it, or read it somewhere? Ok real talk I find this comment annoying, mostly because it's so off topic and ...... well I want to say stupid, but my goal isn't to insult you, so I am at a loss.
@@osirisgem Are you brain-damaged or just racist? I can't decide which. As someone with a degree in English, I'm more than capable of recognizing it. The canon pronunciation of Sigil is the less common, German-sounding way of pronouncing the word. Most people I've met use a French-derived soft "g."
Now explain why the fuck you felt the need to claim this is off-topic as though a.) this is a focused forum post and b.) Jorphdan didn't himself acknowledge the pronunciation I'm referring to.
@@argentpuck Oh, you called him the 'R' word. That means you automatically win the argument. Congratulations!
The mazes sounds a lot like Ravenloft
Idk if the company decided to pronounce sigil that way but the original word is def the other way.
nicholas schoonbeck it’s deliberate, the denizens of the cage do it to catch out newcomers who pronounce Sigil with a soft G as in the term for identifier marking or arcane marking. The Term is sigil with a soft g the Location is Sigil with a hard g.
Calling it, Lady of Pain is a Old One that made it to the astral planes in the primordial times before the gods made a effort to keep the Old Ones out.
Yes, then she created a ( no-go zone for the Gods) Demiplane of Sigil, to have a " safe space " from them and thier power. She's specifically adverse to being worshipped, and Will Not Allow Any Gods Into Sigil , Ever !
Agnostic ?
High-level magic user ?
Apparently immortal ?
Absolutely will not be crossed,ever, without inflicting immediate and terrible blood - wounding magic harm/ death on any attacker..
Has never been defeated in combat ?
What a facinating creature !
I waited so long for this. I love you
th-cam.com/video/JhRtSHupVNI/w-d-xo.html
We all know... Lady of Pain is Monte Cook's wife.
Love the video.
Woo!
Hey Jorphdan! May I ask, where did you get that diagraph of the multiverse at 3:46 ?
She's probably just, like, a cat or something
There is a saying where I come from
"You know someone successfully min-maxed their D&D character when they are banging the Lady of Pain."
Who made the drawing at 3:47??? That’s ingenious!!!
Doesn't Waukeen have a domain here?
Im still confused about wether magic works in Sigil. Its at the center of a plane that prevents magic, but its clearly filled to the brim with magic. Can anyone provide answers?
I think, generally Spells, Psionics, and Magical Items dont work there yet magic itself still does. In some cases of the planes, the magic is so permanent/fixed that Antimagic wouldn't do anything. After all, the whole universe is magical yet animagic doesnt rip reality apart.
Anyone who likes this weird fantasy setting and wants a story in something like it, read the web comic Kill Six Billion Demons.
2:22. Where is this image from?
You cant discouraged someone from worshipping you as a goddess if he can't die;)
pretty sure the lady of pain of pain was the only way to actually die in the planescape game so even if you cant die she'll kill you anyway.
I got so confused when you where pronouncing it Si-gl and not si-jl but apparently British English and American English pronounce it different 😅
You know how golem can't talk, well theirs stories about the lady's shadow touching theirs. It's later said you'll hear the most unnatural wailings until the golem is no more.
It's worse than that. Golems don't feel pain. Except this one.