New Dedicated Signals on King St Proves Most Torontonians Don't/Can't Read Road Signs!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ส.ค. 2024
- King Street in Toronto has a TTC streetcar/bus priority corridor that runs east/west from Jarvis St to Bathurst St.
Throughout the corridor at most intersections, drivers can only turn right.
TTC vehicles, all buses, cyclists, construction vehicles, emergency vehicles, and other authorized vehicles are allowed to go straight.
The goal, is to speed up TTC (Toronto Transit Commission) service by reducing the number of vehicles on the road.
Due to increased volumes of vehicles turning right, leading right turn signal phases were installed at 8 of 13 intersections to improve traffic flow and TTC service, especially when the line of right turning vehicles spills over into the streetcar lane. There are 2 intersections where I saw streetcars turn right, making good use of the leading right turn phase.
Unfortunately, drivers are regularly not following the rules and are ignoring the road signs that forbid them from going straight.
This increased TTC streetcar/bus travel times significantly. Articles and studies prove it.
toronto.ctvnew...
Now, new changes to traffic signals will never allow drivers to go straight!
Aside from the yellow vehicle signals and pedestrian signals, new dedicated bicycle signals were installed. During the leading right turn signal phase, the bicycle signals will be red. Assuming the city of Toronto is expecting cyclists to be at the curb, it prevents cyclists from interfering with drivers turning right during the right turn signal phase.
New dedicated signals for TTC vehicles and authorized vehicles were installed as well!
The TTC & authorized vehicle signals will be green during the right turn phase and the pedestrian phase.
The yellow vehicle signals will never turn green anymore! It will only display the right turn green arrow when the light is red.
For drivers that don't follow the King St rules (or those that don't read road signs) where you cannot go straight, they'll be waiting at the red light, as long as it takes for them to read the road signs and turn right!
Because most Torontonians don't seem to know how to read road signs, hopefully it forces them to read the signage and just turn right!
It proves just how many Torontonians don't pay attention to or read road signs, and how many Torontonians should not have their driver's license.
This was also done, because it means unauthorized drivers going straight is considered running a red light. It will be easier to accuse people for breaking the rules, because running a red light is a bigger violation than disobeying a "no going straight" sign.
Overall, I am happy with the changes because it makes people read road signs, and it's easier to expose those that don't. For the right turn green arrow phases, I think adding the bicycle signals was overdue, despite drivers turning right and cyclists sharing the right turn lane. From what it looks like, cyclists are expected to wait at the curb, during the right turn phase. Or they could wait on the left side of the vehicles turning right, and follow the transit & authorized vehicle signal if that's safer.
How half the drivers in the GTA have a licence is truly a mystery
Being originally from Holland I was amazed at how much reading is involved to do with traffic SIGNS. It should be clear in ONE glance what to do. Traffic communication is the pits here and it can be greatly improved. with pictograms
The weird thing is that Canada usually does a much better job of using pictograms than the US, despite having similar sign standards. But this is absolutely atrocious signage!
@@PlanetLinuxChannelI agree, it is worse in the US. I am here now for 40 years, so I am more or less getting used to it. Even to the novel-like wording on signs and the late warnings for exits on highways, which improved over time, or perhaps I got sharper? lol.
@@ellenpa2000 The USA, and even Quebec, use different traffic signal lenses for transit vehicles (the white horizontal and vertical bars), and for turns (red and yellow arrows). That way, there's no chance that drivers will mistake those traffic lights for their own lights, and there's no need for those "transit signal" and "left turn signal" signs. Can you even believe that Ontario isn't even allowed to use red arrows on our traffic light yet? That is one big thing we are behind on.
To complicate things further, a vertical transit priority currently means that transit has right of way in every direction (which most of us might already know). Meaning that if we were to use those white symbolic lenses for transit signals, we would have to change every vertical white bar signal in Toronto to a diagonal bar signal (which represents turns). After that, we would have to change the very meaning of the vertical white bar so that it applies only to through traffic.
I'm also not a fan that there has to be two of every type of signal in the far side of the intersection. I think it should be permissible to have one signal at the nearside, particularly with bike signals. But since there isn't even a bike lane to the right of the turning lane, I don't think those bike signals are even necessary. Other places would not have this issue.
And all that only covers traffic signals and lines.
that's way too much to read. just limit the street to delivery and emergency vehicles only and be done with it.
This is how other jurisdictions do this, in Australia, the US and many other nations. Such logic is beyond the skill-set of Ontario.
An exception was had in Kitchener-Waterloo, but that's only because the streetcar network there is connected to railroad tracks, and therefore the Railway (and associated) Acts pertain and are administered by Transport Canada. The internationally recognized 'white bars' are therefore allowed to direct streetcars at junctions, whereas in Ontario, only the vertical white bar is recognized under the HTA.
Go figure...
Six different signs with lights on them and six other signs with words on them. Drive at 40kmh and you have a problem. Now pretend you don't speak/read English really well. Add a delviery van that stops you from seeing the signs until the last minute, jaywalking people, lane splittling cyclists and a firestruck/ambulance with a horn and wailing lights. Add bad driving habits from somewhere else that add the logic of if a car can squeeze into any space, it's OK and pull a U-Turn anywhere you feel like it.
100% correct. People in charge of Toronto traffic don't seem to have any understanding of traffic management. They come up with most convoluted "solutions" to most basic problems. And them compound the problem by installing multiple signs spread over several locations. Geez if you are going to write a book, at least put all pages on the same pole.
I feel like everyone forgetting that the simplest solution is to just install red light cameras. The cameras would probably pay themselves off within a day. People always listen to money.
@@abisanbuvanendran3069 100% agree!
i disagree, bc the signs are very confusing
actually, red light cameras barely reduce infractions in the long term, and they're not allowed to use revenue as a main reason for installation (yes, it's doublespeak), but it could be interesting
Never mind red light cameras, have a traffic control officer or two at the intersections handing out tickets. Just from this short video it’s obvious the revenue generated would cover their salaries and more.
Regarding the signage, an option could be replacing the “no straight thru” signage with “Do Not Enter” signs. In Vancouver, heading westbound on Granville St approaching Smithe St, general traffic is forced to turn left while buses & authorized vehicles can go straight. They just have “Do Not Enter - Except Authorized Vehicles” signs on the far-side, with a standard green ball signal. Smithe is a one-way street, so not an Apples-to-Apples comparison. But still, it’s a different way to sign it.
Why not do that here in Toronto?
I 100% agree with you!
I think the only reason they didn't do that, is because unauthorized vehicles are allowed to turn onto King St from another street. It's just through/left movements specifically from King St that aren't allowed.
Maybe put "Do Not Enter" signs nearside only, or have it say "Do Not Enter from King St".
@@jacksonbourrettransportati9852 What about putting a sign saying "DO NOT ENTER - Except Authorized vehicles and local traffic". The other benefit of that is making it clear to drivers turning onto King Street from the beginning that they can only use it for local traffic (such as to access garages and loading bays only entered off King Street). Part of the issue I think is that drivers turn onto King Street and then suddenly realize that the traffic controls won't let them go straight and get confused. If drivers were aware from the beginning that this is a local traffic road and not an alternative to Queen Street, they would be less likely to be going through that "traffic signal computation phase" at the next intersection.
That is like 15 pieces of information on one single pole and everybody is expected to get it first try?
Yeah, because you should know what those yellow lines on the street mean. Driving is a skill, being bad at it is dangerous and inconveniences everyone else. Sorry, but learn to drive is the real message here, or don't do it (even better)
I'm a fan of reallocating road space for transit and cycling. But that initial light setup is 12 kinds of confusing at a first glance.
Nobody from outside of Toronto will be able to decipher these intersections successfully. This is terrible signage
A couple of things I have noticed is that
1. I never liked the through travel is prohibited. Being from the US we use the No Left Turn, No Right Turn and No U Turn signs. For me looking quickly at the signs and not being from the area my though process would have my brain see it as an other left turn sign and ignore that it is a through travel is prohibited. To resolve this having a No Entry sign (Do Not Enter in the US) placed in the proper locations would positively convey the prohibitive travel.
2. Next is that there is a sign and signal device overload at these intersections. Just on the one signal pole with the right turn arrow there are eight signs and six signal heads, some signs are black with white letters and others are white with black letters. Back in the 1990's I road around with the city's civil traffic engineer in my former city and he told me that he could paint everything, have flashing lights and put signs everywhere and make it look like a three ring circus and that would not improve the safety of the area.
Once you reach the point like what Toronto is trying to do here this is a situation of sensory overload for the drivers, you have too many signs, signals, pedestrians, cyclists, trolleys and buses, the situation is a circus and they need to strip everything back to the basics.
1. First is if the city is serious in making King Street a transit priority zone, then make it 100% transit only with the needed exceptions for deliveries and services.
2. Next where transit and traffic are allowed to coexist, then separate the bus/trolley lane from the travel lanes. This would mean the removal of any stopping/parking in the right lane.
3. Where traffic must turn right having the sole right lane being a travel only lane would improve these situations because you can design the intersection to force right turns.
4. Remove any indication that it is possible for traffic to continue into a prohibited area.
5. Possibly remove buses from the route and make it trolley only and remove any pavement.
6. Possibly design pavement where only buses could continue to travel over the trolley tracks.
7. Possibly raising and lowering barricades that only open for transit vehicles.
8. Installing transit signals instead of red/yellow/green looking traffic signals. This is something that is distinguishable that drivers will notice.
These are just some quick thoughts, but even with these thoughts there will always be stupid drivers who will drive what ever way they feel, but reducing sign and signal sensory overload would be a great place to start in this situation, and not adding anymore signs or signals.
"Being from the US" means you have a number of states that have already figured it out. California, Washington, Oregon and others, for example. They all have "transit malls".
I’d argue there is a design failure here, since people aren’t reading and are just looking at light colours. The excessive signage probably works against itself. An alternative, seen in Montreal, are transit dedicated lights which are white bars, which go from horizontal to straight.
Sorry but this is awful design during the day, never mind at night. Once turned onto Allen Rd when bike signal went green because when you have a thousand G/Y/R signals all rammed in the same place and you are unfamiliar with area sometimes you just get confused no matter how good you are at driving otherwise. If a lot of people are failing to heed the signage there are reasons other than all of them being bad.
My biggest issue with this setup isn’t even the signage, it’s the R-Y-G signal being used for streetcars/authorized vehicles. Apparently it’s really a problem at nighttime, since the signs are less visible.
I think it would help if they replaced the green aspect with a vertical transit bar. Although I think you’ve said that a vertical transit bar in Ontario means all movements, not just straight-thru?
Another option could be installing a vertical white transit bar on top of the vehicle signal, although that’d lack a yellow indication for streetcars.
I agree with that option, if only a vertical white transit bar would mean through only. If this was Quebec, they would have definitely done that, since they have several different types of white bars for transit.
That's correct. If we had multiple types of transit bar we could use the diagonal ones for turns, freeing up the vertical one for thru movements such as here.
@@jacksonbourrettransportati9852 Why can't the vertical bar be used to mean streetcars/buses can proceed, whether that is through movement or a turn since in either case cross traffic would be stopped (which puts a turning vehicle in front of the next wave of cars on the cross street)? It's not like an indication for yellow is required for buses/streetcars/authorized vehicles.
@@jacktattersall9457Not in the MTO book for allowed signals, other than the vertical white bar.
I believe Traffic Man mentioned to me in another comment a while back that Waterloo got an exception to the rule when they built the ION LRT.
@@moho472 I understand, but why can't the vertical white bar signal allow all left/right/through transit movements with a stop being shown by the vertical white bar being off and only the general traffic always-red being on?
Video title is so true! All drivers should come to a complete 3 minute stop and carefully read, and the reread all 4 signs and then carefully navigate the intersection using one of four dedicated signals!
A couple of "no left turn" signs have gone up in my town not too far from Toronto, because left turns from those little side streets onto the main street are very difficult to make, and it backs up traffic on those small side streets. You wouldn't believe how many people still try to turn left despite the big signs. 🙄
This intersection could do with some improvements though, it's a lot to look at. 😅
I'm from the Vaughan area, and you won't believe how many questionable drivers I see every day. From texting to taking a nap while in their Tesla in full self-driving mode. It enrages me to see all these people who studied harder than a bat out of hell for their driving test and passed with flying colors, but get pulled over right outside the driving school for running a stop sign. With all this modern technology at our fingertips, no wonder that drivers are becoming lackbuster. I saw so many drivers with their phones to their ears or looking at questionable content that is kind of too spicy for me to say, but you get my point. These questionable drivers should be banned for life from driving.
The best long term solution is to redesign the intersection so that it is impossible for cars to do anything but turn right, whist allowing the streetcars and buses through the middle rather than some paint, signs and signals. The concept of only allowing right turns is a good idea to ban through traffic whilst maintaining local traffic eg deliveries.
The ground is market with stripes. That should be repainted so it's much more visible for people to see this is not an area regular cars can go through
Very confusing. Engineers got to come up with a better system...Half a billion $$ annual transportation budget and this is what you came up with? I have an idea " Do not Enter " except TTC vehicles in bold lettering. I
Another thing the full traffic light is confusing and a waste if it never turns green replace them with a full right turn traffic light a red yellow and green right turn arrow only no green ball that would stop people holding up the street car waiting for the light to turn green
The Ontario HTA doesn't permit that. It's Ontario....it's beyond us.
@@stephensaines7100 they could at least omit the green ball. The HTA only requires a red ball, a yellow ball and some green indication.
The keeping unauthorized signals (the yellow ones) and simply making it so that there will never be a green light for through traffic or left turning traffic is brilliant. It's compatible with the signal systems we've already been using for ages. There's no need for driver education beyond people continuing to think about more complex signalized intersections the first time they encounter them. A car in front of a street car is now objectively a violation of traffic law, so streetcars can just honk at them until they get the idea. This should in theory work well in the long run as drivers slowly remember how complex signalized intersections work. Why didn't we do this ages ago (if we aren't going to just outright ban cars from the street)?
There's 5 signs for saying what 2 could: "Right Turn Only" and "Transit, Authorized Vehicles, and Bicycles Excepted."
The current problem is that Queen Street is closed on the same stretch so people are detouring onto king to avoid traffic on Richmond Adelaide and Dundas
I find it wild that cars are even allowed on the transit lane. In Calgary only transit and emergency vehicles are permitted down the transit way
Exactly. It's an Ontario thing.
Yeah. Maybe it’s time to create a ridge separator between transit lanes and the lanes for other road users?
As an immigrant from Europe, I absolutely agree that people in Canada can't drive. Having said that, Canada has the worst signage BY FAR of over 30 countries I've visited. One needs a PhD to decipher where one can park and when, and having 150 different signals and signs, some of which even include text, instead of symbols, one has to pay attention to in a single intersection here is absolutely insane.
@@CKwoi Unfortunately, I 100% agree. The province of Quebec is ahead of the rest of Canada, when it comes to symbol signage rather than text.
At this point, I'm just happy if people don't stop their cars in the intersection and pedestrian crosswalks. Nevermind reading confusing street signs.
Your initial video image perfectly sums up the disaster Toronto streets have become. The City of Toronto believes more is more and micromanagement. It's pollution. For a larger city, The City of Toronto was beautiful and reasonably free flowing. Between the bike lane barriers and sign pollution, its ugly, confusing, congested and dangerous.
It's not really signal priority since I've still seen streetcars having to stop at a red for opposite traffic. It's more of a technically to be able to have a way to enforce the "Can't go straight on king street" since now it's just a red light that is allowing for right turns.
Just add one more sign. That should fix the problem
5:09 The guy still took a left turn even with those new signals and signs!!
Maybe Canada should use the horizontal and vertical bar signals for public transit like the US does
Montreal has those, actually.
I 100% agree. It's unfortunately not legal in Ontario right now. Only vertical transit bars are legal in Ontario, which is considered as an "all movement" priority for transit.
@@jacksonbourrettransportati9852It's weird cause some parts have the vertical line. I've seen it at Queens Quay and Bathurst. It's kind of half and half though, still has a red light but looks like 'green' is replaced with a white vertical line, to avoid confusion to the operators I assume.
Canada does, save for Ontario.
In Ontario, having RED (left or right or straight) traffic signals are forboden. YELLOW or GREEN is allowed.
In Ontario, having horizontal (stop) or diagonal (turn) transit signals are forboden. Only the vertical (go straight) transit signals are allowed.
Indeed:
Google: 'Ontario Traffic Manual Book 12 - Traffic Signals'
Yo this is confusing! They should have a sign saying NO CARS. That may help, ttc and other services know that they can go straight. It would be interesting to see what Google and Apple Maps tells drivers!
I've never gone through that intersection and am in the US. However, that choice of signal is misleading. From a US perspective, the light suggests that there is a phase for straight thru traffic. I'm not sure if there are different rules in Toronto, but here in the US, a right turn only (or left turn only) lane will usually only have arrows... no ball lights. Especially if there is no option to go straight. And even if it does have ball lights (maybe for red), a green arrow will not show simultaneously with a red or green ball. (Exception for the Doghouse lights, but those seem to be going away more and more.) Further, I am sitting here watching this video, and all the signs--they are still TLDR. And it's not that I can't read; I can read, write, and speak English just fine. I am unfamiliar with the area, but I'd also wonder if cars could reasonably be banned from that street entirely since they are obviously the problem. No cars, probably no problem. But I'm no engineer in this aspect, so maybe I'm wrong. At the end of the day, imo, account should be taken for the people who accidently go the wrong way, such that it isn't the end of the world if you manage to go the wrong way, but simultaneously and also imo, the design should better refelect what you want people to do... not the signs with a bunch of English words on them.
This is bothersome that they would be obstructing traffic with barriers in a big city like that
A car making an unauthorized u-turn got hit by a LRT test train. Of course the driver was in the wrong.
But the reports left out that between the LRT construction and the watetr works construction going on at the same time, there was no place to make a keft turn for miles.
So when you are driving with high number of pedestrians, reading that much info is the last thing you want to do.
When they started this project they had police warning drivers who didn’t turn off and it seemed to work but years later there’s no enforcement. King is an empty street so of course drivers will take advantage of this. I have
Canada seriously has the worst standards for traffic signals. I’m sure there are places in the US that are bad, but I’ve lived in multiple states and visited most of the rest, and I can’t think of a single place that has as many different ways to signal the same traffic action in a single city, let alone across the country.
@@Neberheim I unfortunately agree. Except for the province of Quebec, the rest of Canada is way behind when it comes to good traffic signal design and timing policy standards. Especially Ontario.
Simple step to fix it, use proper transit signals instead of a sign, for example in Australia we use a T for tram and B for bus, way clearer and I recommend that. Secondly I recommend road markings saying TRANSIT ONLY. Thirdly I think the red lights should be removed because it is incredibly confusing. Lastly I think a Do not enter sign should be added. Edit: I also think a right arrow or a right only sign should be added with a right arrow saying only except TTc and authorised vehicles
Do not enter sign wouldn't work because you can enter the street coming from the right and turning right onto it.
@@spicy_mint It could be placed earlier or on the pole
This why painted roads for transit only are helpful. Or go full European and have motorized bollards that move down only for transit and police.
Or you know... How about following other provinces with a white bar for bus green light???? Too many green lights for everything is SO CONFUSING
now i finally understand this intersection. i've only seen photos of this intersection. if i was driving, this is too much information for me to take in. there has to be a better way. i would propose solutions, but i'm not canadian, and i haven't been in toronto before
All that's missing now are the automatic red light cameras.
Honestly I would be utterly confused by this light. 1st so much reading, 2nd to any different lights.
My suggestion:
1st move the bike signals to the near side of the intersection and closer to ground to the level of a bike. There are very small traffic lights designed for such a purpose. For a cyclist it should be clear they abide by those lights.
2nd do not use red yellow green for transit vehice only lights. At least here in Germany and I think other European countries too, we use a horizontal while bar for stop, a fully lit while circle for the yellow phase and a vertical while bar for go.
A driver would distinctively know that those light are not ment for him.
You could put a sign next to the one remaining light for cars saying "This light will never turn green"
@@IamTheHolypumpkin I agree with those suggestions! In the latest video update, the bicycle signals have actually been moved lower to being directly above the pedestrian signal, since it's timed together.
Quebec actually uses similar white line indications from what you mentioned! A white vertical line would mean straight only, a white horizontal line would mean red, and a white triangle means yellow.
Ontario only allows white vertical lines, which currently means protected through, left and right turn priority for transit.
I've been advocating for Ontario to legalize the standards like Quebec.
Unfortunately, Ontario/Toronto policy mandates at least two signal heads for everything on the far side of the intersection. IMO, there are quite a few policies that I believe they should repeal or update. For example, use red arrows for left turn signals, allow those white symbolic symbols for transit vehicles (like the one you mentioned), allow one of the signals for bikes/turns/etc to be mounted on the nearside under certain symbols, etc. And do something about all the sign clutter.
People cannot read signs, let alone interpret traffic lights. Coming northbound into Syracuse NY, the left and right lanes of I-81 divide for construction. There are 4 huge signs saying I-81 North Left Lane Only, I-481 Right Lane Only. People always bring 481 traffic to a standstill when they realize that they've screwed up and nesd to be in the left lane. They're not trying to jump line, it's simply that reading signs, understanding signals is not required, until they get a ticket for failing to understand.
this is more of a case of confusing signage. the second version is definitely better than the first, but it still needs improvement. why are the "no left turn" "no straight" signs all the way off to the side? they should be right next to the red light so drivers can see them easier
its mostly drivers giving city hall the middle finger...i understand, but the car is no longer king, you listening, Doug Ford?
Transit Planner here, what needs to be done is either pedestrinize king street and be done with it, or replace the transit traffic light with the international transit signal, will be a lot harder to mistake a ( I ) and a ( -- )
I 100% agree with using a horizontal and vertical line for the transit signal!
I just wish Ontario would legalize it. Right now, only vertical transit lines are allowed in Ontario, which is considered an "all movement" priority.
I emailed the MTO about something like this... They said they did a "feasibility study" on the need for these signals, but somehow concluded that it wasn't necessary. At this point, it seems like they just don't like changes in practice. Frustrating.
@@UsernameIncoming I'm sorry to hear that. Yeah that isn't good. I don't like the sound of that. I should talk to one of my supervisors about this, because I currently work for the MTO as part of my college co-op internship for one semester until the end of August.
@@jacksonbourrettransportati9852 I didn't know you had a co-op position with the MTO. Congratulations on that!
To be clear, My inquiry was mostly about red/yellow arrows and diagonal transit signals for turning movements. However, I believe it's safe to say that they would have said the same thing about all-white signals. I don't have any details about the feasibility study other than "The ministry conducted a feasibility study on the need for these signal displays and potentially amending the HTA regulations to allow their use. The study concluded that the signal displays in OTM Book 12 are still sufficient for signal operational needs in Ontario" (that was in the email they sent me). Might make for a good discussion. Anyway, best of luck on your co-op.
@@UsernameIncoming Thanks! If the person in charge of traffic signals is in the office this week, I will show him the videos of the King St signals and signage with a few other examples, in hopes they'll reconsider. Assuming that study by the MTO was done before all this was implemented in Toronto.
it would be much easier if they just put do not enter sign except authorized vehicles. It is also extremely dumb to King street right turn only at such a busy intersection.
That’s way too confusing. Just have two lanes, the one with the tracks only for the trolleys and buses and the right hand lane for cars, and get rid of that must turn right situation
Car-brained entitlement knows no bounds. Put up cameras and fine them all. Driving is a skill. People should have to be good at it, otherwise off the road!
Toronto drivers are a whole other level of bad, and the Toronto government can’t implement signals properly for trams/busses, it’s really dumb
This is why I no longer drive on King Street. As another commenter wrote, just ban cars/private vehicles from King Street - with the exception of delivery vehicles - and be done with it.
Toronto police to getr back in to the job of enforcing traffic laws, there need to be traffic copos on the ground directing traffic, I've worked on these streets for decades, it was around 20 10 i think when TPS announced a change to how they enforce traffic, in this case thy stopped enforcing year after year.. I used to see someone run a red light once or twice a week, its an hourly occurrence now. the drivers here are so entitled they feel they can and pretty much do get away with anything and everything, its 3rd world level bad, and it never used to be like this
@@robertkennith7866 Unfortunately every road user in Toronto acts entitled. Especially those that don't obey "no turn" signs. Pedestrians and electric scooters/bikes are the worst in Toronto. I am convinced that Toronto is the road rage capital of Canada.
@@jacksonbourrettransportati9852 sais who? literally every person who comes to this city comment how bad the drivers are, not how bad the pedestrians are
@@robertkennith7866 Well, I'm comparing it to other cities across North America. The only city that I know of where pedestrians are worse than Toronto is New York City. Drivers and cyclists in Toronto (including myself) are fed up with it. I always hear Torontonians talking about how bad pedestrians are here in Toronto. The visitors complain about how bad drivers are.
@@jacksonbourrettransportati9852 don't know who you're talking to, but pedestrians Torontonians are considered to be overly polite by most people outside of Canada, aside our drivers, which you can look up Toronto Traffic, and clearly they have correctly earned the reputation as the worst drivers in North America...
@@robertkennith7866 Interesting. that's not the experience I had in Toronto, but I respect that everyone can have different experiences. I agree and observed myself that when it comes to distracted driving, improper lane changes/turns, and unnecessary slow driving, Toronto drivers are the worst of Canada. When traveling to other cities such as Victoria, Quebec City, Fredricton, Moncton, Montreal and Prince Edward Island, I experienced that pedestrians were more polite in those cities than Toronto. Quebec City, Prince Edward Island and Fredricton were the places where I experienced pedestrians to be the most polite. I visit Quebec City and Montreal on a regular basis.
In the picture at the beginning, the problem I have with it is that the “transit and authorized vehicles signal” sign (which is supposed to refer to the small black signals on the left) is sitting equally between the transit signals and the regular traffic signal for cars. So it is initially confusing whether the sign is referring to the small signals on the left or all of the lights collectively.
That sign that says "Transit and Authorized Vehicle Signal" was recently moved directly between the 2 sets of black signals on the left. I posted a small video update on that.
Your preachy commentary is misguided: when so many people get this wrong it is the traffic engineering that's at fault. The lines on the road are worn and passenger vehicles end up in the left lane facing the quandary of that endless red light. Isn't this obvious?
To be fair King Streetcar Service has vastly improved this Summer. I don't know what's making the difference but the drivers keep hitting green lights. 🍏
Can't they just install a light that instead of being a round green circle, it writes BUS on it? Having 5 columns of lights is way too confusing to understand on a quick glance, especially when they're all at the same height and give the impression that they have the same priority
@@SirMango I really wish Toronto would use something like that. The province of Quebec does have them, but it's currently not legal to be used in Ontario. Toronto cannot install it until the province of Ontario legalizes it :(
Is this now a permanent change on king st? If it is, put a do not enter sign blocking the right lane on the far side of the intersection, and scrape the asphalt around the tracks down to the concrete (or down to the rail ties). That way cars can't drive on the tracks, and have to drive on the right. Transit lights should be a straight arrow for ry&g. Car lights should be right arrow for ry&g. In the winter, use a ttc truck with a blade to push snow down to the track level, to the right, and a road plow can move it off the road.
@@georgejones8784 Honestly, I really don't know if this is going to be permanent in Toronto. Toronto typically keeps changing things up at a lot of intersections, especially when road users are confused, or when compliance isn't good.
To be fair, that's a lot of signs and lights to read in a short amount of time. It's technically got the info, but realistically you would be holding up traffic to stop and read it all
This would be way simpler if the transit signal had the word "BUS" on the signal lenes like they do in montreal, instead of making all this extra reading for no reason
This is a problem with one of the mayor back in the days. This King St. (BS) should be a test run/project that failed, but no city staffs willing to pointed that out the then mayor or next few mayors.
Then, bike's lane/bikes costed slightly more problem. Followed by added more lights to confuse people/drivers. That leading to TTC personals upset of being blocked. I and most people noticed that was a crazy idea/problem when first listed as a test. Well, just wait for it and it will get even worse (not better). Just like everything in this world (getting worse by the day).
I wonder why is the traffic light that doesn't make sense throw it out redesign
The entire downtown is one big construction nightmare. So glad I live outside the city, in Mississauga and before I retired my job was in Mississauga a 15 minute commute each way.
@@lambo2655 I want to move out of Toronto as well. Once I graduate from college, my goal is to move to Longueuil, Brossard, or Quebec City.
Wrong place to do pilot project for new signals.
The signs were never going to work. People will drive in the ways that feel right to them. The road needs to be repainted to make it very obvious that you're doing something wrong
All the time you need to read this mess is time that you should have your eyes on the road 🙄
Keeps your eyes on the road apparently ?
What about retractable bollards? They take a second to go up/down.
Or how about a big ass sign saying "Do Not Enter"?
Return back this street to normal and stop screwing it around. Remove all that crap. This should be a subway.
@@koskos758 100% agree that Toronto needs more subways. It's way overdue and I think it's already too late. Toronto needs subways, subways, SUBWAYS!
Make the light above the green right turn arrow, blue. And make blue for authorized vehicles only.
or vertical lines
Install cameras and start mailing out $1000 tickets the city needs revenue.
Tell that to Queens Park. It's not permitted until the HTA and other acts are changed.
A Do No Enter and a One Way sign pointing to the right would solve it. A traffic light that is permanently red makes no sense.
Toronto is fugged up
Is there any current conditions where the vehicle signals turn green?
Nope. The yellow vehicle signal will never turn green. The city did that, because they think it will increase the chances that drivers will follow the "no going straight" sign. It allows drivers to stop and read the signage. Only public transit, cyclists and other authorized vehicles are allowed to go straight, which have their own dedicated signal heads that turn green each cycle.
@@jacksonbourrettransportati9852 interesting! Yeah I’d opt to go with a vehicle signal with right arrows only. Might be less confusing for the simple minded haha!
Yeah I never saw a setup like that prior to these new changes here!
I thought for sure that fully protected right turn signal heads would be used, when I first heard of the planned signal changes. I suspect they want the red ball to be displayed at all times, because unauthorized vehicles aren't ever allowed to go straight. They could do that with fully protected right turn signal heads too. I remember reading that the city wanted unauthorized vehicles that illegally go straight to be considered as running a red light, so the fines are a lot more harsh. If any green indication is displayed without a red ball, it's not considered as running a red light. Toronto really wants to maximize the penalty for unauthorized going straight.
I agree, and I mentioned this in a comment on a blog post, but someone said that the solid red is more communicative.
I disagreed by saying that the red/yellow arrows would communicate to drivers that they must turn right only.
If I recall, the MTO doesn't actually have a rule for coloured arrows, except for advanced Greens/Ambers
@@TheTrafficTech
@@moho472 yeah I noticed that. Still, a right only protected signal would get the point across here. One less display to look at. The authorized vehicles signal could be mounted on the left mast arm and vehicle signals plus bicycle could be mounted on the right.
Interfering with the flow of a transit vehicle should be an automatic license suspension. This includes not yielding to buses pulling out of a stop.
Just like in the USA sign says cant do sich and such and people don't care.
6 different sets of lights for one direction of travel and 1.5 lanes. Then you add on the multitude of signs for drivers to read when they reach that set of lights.
If you know that intersection or the rules for that section of road, its probably not an issue. But imagine being an ESL driver or tourist and having to parse that amount of signage with rules.
@@404_profile_not_found that's true
They need a big LED sign that says ALL VEHICLES TURN RIGHT ONLY. Most really don't look at little signs. 🤷♂
They have to be approved HTA signals, no others to be legal. Folks, do some reading.
There’s too much signage, and too many confusing lights. The real solution here would be to have one lane dedicated to just car traffic and have the streetcar tracks completely separated OR completely ban cars from King St, full stop.
@@DanTheCaptain There is currently a dedicated right turn lane that unauthorized vehicles must use. Transit and authorized vehicles have a dedicated through lane. Authorized vehicles are also allowed to use the right turn lane to turn right. Cyclists currently share the right turn lane with motor vehicles. Even though I don't actually agree with restricting unauthorized vehicles from going straight or banning cars, I am accepting of the through restrictions, because it's only meant to improve public transit service, as well as emergency response times. I feel like the through restrictions is more of a temporary solution to improve public transit service.
As if that is a surprise. Next thing you will tell me that the sky is blue.
Need better pavement markings to try to divert non-transit traffic out of the thru lane. Why not solid red paint instead of faded yellow hatching??
Hopefully, “red light cameras are in place here!!?? To catch illegal thru movements in green.
Regrettably, the original traffic signal setup seems better for transit because at least the “illegals” clear the intersection for transit to proceed.
In the “After” setup, the “No Left Turn” and “ No Thru traffic” signs are too far from the traffic signal heads. Would be improved with illuminated turn control signs.
Interesting video 👍✔️
Do you know if google maps allows for routes going straight or turning left?
I don't think Google maps knows about it.
google maps shows correct turning restrictions.
Need better pavement markings to divert non-transit traffic out of the thru lane. Why not solid red paint instead of faded yellow hatching??
Interesting video 👍✔️
@@robwanless7551 100% agree with solid red pavement markings! If they have it at Queen's Quay & Spadina Ave, why not have it here too?
Thanks to all those ridiculous NO LEFT TURN restrictions, I ended up at Square One
Way too much to read and no time to read it. Bad enough if you travel through there often, but if not or visitors, what a nightmare. Look at all the people (walking, riding, driving) not caring and just doing what the want. What a mess. Very poor communications.
The city needs to install larger LED (no going straigh & turning left) signs that are more visible, like the ones I've seen for no left turn at a few intersections. There are times when street lights malfunction at intersections, and motorists treat them as stop signs, assuming that's what most or some of them probably thought. Yes, they all should check for signals and signs, and I'm always on the lookout for no right turn on red signs and other signs as well, but I still see motorists break that rule as well. It could be that they really don't care to look for signs and just choose to do whatever since there is no one visible to enforce the law at those times, or they just go off impulse and follow everyone's lead, thinking to themselves; if everyone's going through something must be wrong with the light I guess.
@@Darkwormhole777 I've been advocating for LED signs that indicate restrictions for either turns or through movements for quite a few months now. At intersections where drivers repeatedly violate a "no left turn" sign, I also make requests for an LED "no left turn sign".
They installed a lot of them in 2017-2020, but stopped since. I really hope there's plans to continue installing LED vehicle turn or through restriction signs.
@@jacksonbourrettransportati9852 Show me where the OHTA allows them...
Seems like FAFO for traffic planners to me.
So the people and bicycles going into the crosswalk with the hand on shouldn't be walking or cycling? LMAO
Sorry I'm late but can you explain the thumbnail again?
@@tranthien3932 Of course!
There were a couple minor changes to how the signage was arranged after I posted this video.
For this video thumbnail, the yellow 4-section signal head is for private unauthorized vehicles. The signage states that unauthorized vehicles are only allowed to turn right.
Authorized vehicles, such as public transit, buses, emergency vehicles, construction vehicles, city of Toronto work vehicles, tow trucks, etc are to abide by the black signals on the left. Signage states that it's for transit and authorized vehicles. Bicycles are to abide by the dedicated bicycle signals. Cyclists are allowed to go straight. Only TTC vehicles are allowed to turn left.
They should put more signs with more text.
toronto is the most ridiculously backwards city
install red light cameras
Pause the video at 2:00 and ask yourself. How in the WORLD are you supposed to figure out what that mess all means. I think it's more of a UI problem then mischievous motorists.
As much as I somewhat agree with you, you'd be surprised to see how many Torontonians don't pay attention to or ignore "no left/right turn signs at other Toronto intersections such as Lakeshore Blvd, Woodbine Ave, Eglinton Ave, or at other downtown intersections. Especially when left turns are prohibited only at certain times of day. It's been so bad there, that they had to install LED blank out "no left turn" signs at intersections. The LED "no left turn" sign lights up during the no left turn hours. They even had to add an "oversized" no left turn sign on Lakeshore Blvd!
But yes, comparing it to King St & Yonge, King St & Yonge is worse, but not by too much.j
We should use pictographs instead of so much text. Hasn't that been the general approach/direction we've been using for all signage? There are other ways signage could have been simplified too.
Watching these inconsiderate people makes me yell at the screen! AAAAGHHH!!!!
We need better traffic engineering
@@user-pl5oy7pc7c 100% agreed!
Now how do they address the cyclist and their total disrespect of the rules of the roads. I have yet to see cycles obey any stop sign and rarely a red signal unless they have no other choice.
Just shut the road down for everything but transit,emergency vehicles and delivery vehicles.
so you have to read a novel at every intersection now, got it