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speaking of dangerous, you should totally listen to troys (hermes) solo music if you haven't so great! not say a vid or anything but just in general his voice so so smooth love him.
Sounds right to me, Odysseus spends the ENTIRE Odyssey lying about absolutely everything, generally without any reason other than Odysseus is a complulsive liar
And then Poseidon is like “yeah, yeah, sure.”, lets her go and sits on the rock saying stuff like “Seems like king is returning home, and gets no proper greeting. But not to worry, a greeting from a god is a blessing~”
"It was meant to stop you by design" wasn't saying that Aeolus was messing with him. It was saying that the storm trapped in the bag, created by Posiedon, was meant to stop him. Aeolus just put it in the bag
Exactly. In Storm, Ody questions if the storm they're facing is natural or divine, Dangerous confirmed that it was the doing of Poseidon. He made it specifically so they could not make it to Ithaca. Eurolychus made a big mistake opening that bag back in Keep Your Friends Close.
@@aadityayanamandra8846 In the musical, yeah i think so too. In mythology, Aeolus literally warns him the winds are treacherous. It's them who whisper things in the ears of the sailor.
@@conradoccaminha In the mythology, Aeolus basically hits Odysseus with "yeah man I'd love to help you again but you are CURSED big time." He's clearly not malicious in the book
"I'm Not Sorry For Loving You" is more about detailing Calypso's exact flavor of delulu than anything else. Ody's "confession" was him clarifying that any bond he had to her wasn't genuine. Something I noticed is that the instrumentation gets sparse when he says it, as though their relationship was playing the notes, but not making the music.
That's a great explanation. She really is delulu in a unique way. And I don't think that Ody loved her in any way. More like he's used to having to let her have her way to get out of worse trouble. As it's not said that she raped him in musical, I think that this is his way of keeping her away. If he gives her something he can buy time, as she would want Ody to submit fully. So if he loves her in any form she would think that it's only a matter of time till he loves her romantically.
The thing that I wish Jorge could play with “Time can take a heavy toll” line is that hearing scream for seven year can take a heavy toll but what can silence for 100 year do to you while knowing that it will continue for ETERNITY? Just for the fact that you got punished for just supporting your father like most daughter would do
I like the way you described what the music was doing! I also couldn't help but notice that despite Odysseus being there, there was no guitar, like those words weren't even his own.
huh. i thought it was more him saying "it's been 7 years so we're kinda friends now, but i still don't love you", although i made this interpretation back in the snippets era so i had no idea what was the context for this song...
Personally, I don't think it's intended as a forgiveness song, but more of a contextual one, meant to give explanation (explanation, not excuse) to Calypso's behavior so it's not just "she's doing this for shits and giggles". You CAN feel sympathy for her ig (if you want to? 🤷🏽♀️) but it's not necessarily the intention imo. If anything, it's to hammer home how manipulative and dismissive she is of her actions and how much she views her circumstances as an excuse for her behavior. As for Ody's "I love you" line, honestly? I think it's a combo of something Stockholm-adjacent and simply wanting to try to appease a goddess. Like yes, she's letting him go but he has no idea why or because of whom. In his mind, she could probably just as easily pull a switch-up and decide "Nevermind I'm keeping you here", so I think it was partially that he DOES actually have some complicated feelings for her (as many people do for their abusers) and partially because she's still infinitely more powerful than him.
@@islasullivan3463 Exactly, it's an example of understanding why someone does something or why someone is the way they are but not excusing or justifying it.
The interesting thing is: SHE can't release him. She's cursed. That's why all of God Games happened, so Zeus could release him. So, if Ody had known that, would he have appeased her?
lampyrcy made an animatic that kinda reframes calypso's last few lines. there, it's more so her beating herself up, whereas in gigi's animation, she's getting mad at odysseus. i kinda prefer lampyrcy's a bit more, but it's really interesting how ambiguous those last few lines actually are.
@@isaiahjohnson3487 I’m not as familiar with Calypso’s story, so I may be wrong, but I thought she could let people go, she just doesn’t (probably because of her isolation), so Zeus has to come in to force her.
@@bored_potato I can already imagine Percy Jackson saying that to Apollo and he's like... What in the Hades Infirmary not hospital ( I did 8 syllables for a reason) I am so awesome.
I didn’t like that Odysseus said “I love you” either at first but considering he says it right after Calypso’s line about even wanting him to lie I feel he doesn’t actually mean it even platonically. I think it’s more likely he can sympathise with her, enough to lie a bit but not enough to actually love her in any way. Gigi’s animatic also show Ody as completely cold and emotionless when he says it and he leaves straight after which further confirms that in my opinion
I will say though that when these song snippets were first getting released Jorge liked comments saying that Ody loved her platonically so I think we need to not consider Homer’s Odyssey too much in our readings of the material. Not that it’s a bad or wrong interpretation as it’s going to be personal to every listener im just pointing out possible authorial intent. I hope this comes across okay I just wish more people knew what Jorge was said both on TikTok and his Discord over the years.
I kinda viewed it as him wanting to twist the proverbial knife in to hurt her even 1% the way she has hurt him the past 7 years she held him against his will.
It's more like a way to sever the final tie that kept him there. Yes she kept him prisoner for 7 years, and SA'd him during that time but it's also kinda like Stockholm Syndrom. For 7 years she was the ONLY person Ody had any contact with. Forget everything she did, she was the only voice he heard, the one person his eyes saw. And in his darkest despair she provided what she thought of as love and comfort. Ody was so traumatized that to his mind he probably saw it the same way. He probably did have some type of affection for her due to that alone. I wouldn't be surprised
Honestly trauma breeds trauma and I'm not sorry shows how she's both a victim and a tormentor. I blame Zeus for trapping two people with conflicting needs together on a deserted island.
Fun fact: At 19:30 you see Odysseus cutting a hydra’s head and then cauterising the stump with a torch in order for it to not grow back. While Ody didn’t encounter a hydra in his travels, Heracles did, and used this very tactic to defeat it.
I think it makes sense that he doesn’t. Hermes is a trickster. He helps, yes, but he also creates a bit of chaos in doing so. So him leaving Odysseus without an answer if quite fitting
@@sevyluv333 it's his entire personality in EPIC. He shows up, gives Ody a mcguffin for this one part of his journey home, gives very little explanation, says "Don't thank me, friend." with another bit added to it, tells him good luck, then dips.
@@sevyluv333 I suppose that's true.. Still, it would have been nice if Odysseus could get at least a hint of how Athena did to help get him home after their falling out. Eh, oh well.
@@abthedragon4921 Sure, I’d be nice. We the audience want Odysseus to know what we know. But I think it is better this way. (I also don’t believe Athena is dead, so there’s that.)
One thing that improves Not Sorry For Loving You, for me at least, is that from Ody’s expression it looks more like a “there I said it now leave me alone” thing and less of a “I love you just I don’t see you like that” thing
I didn't take "It's meant to stop you by design" as an indication that Aeolus was messing with him, but just that Poseidon wasn't leaving things to chance. The storm wasn't just a big strong storm that could in theory be fought through, but a (semi-?)sentient force of nature that wasn't just in the way, but would actively work against any countermeasure Ody came up with And my favourite winion is clearly the sister winion. Him having his whole family join will never not be cute and amazing
I may be wrong but I think 'I'm not sorry for loving you' is meant to be an introspective song. Like a song meant to make you realize that good intentions don't really mean anything if your actions have bad consequences. That's kind of the theme of the whole musical so I think it makes sense. (If you take Calypso's words at face value that she really convinced herself she was saving Odyseus)
See my nuanced take that I’ll put to TikTok once everyone calms down is that NSFLY would actually be a great song if she was singing it AFTER he was already gone
@@officialmortiusI don't use Tik Tok and I am glad to have seen this comment, I do like that critique. Would you consider posting that tik tok as a TH-cam short too?
@officialmortius I actually agree with that. I think I would have preferred if the plot of the song wasn't about her trying to convince him to stay, because then at least we would have seen a moment of growth. Not that it would have fixed the past but it would be a more consistent characterization. I just don't think the implicit manipulation of it all makes a lot of sense in context but maybe that's just me being stubborn about applying human psychology to the divine.
Especially because in many versions of the Odyssey, she SA’d Odysseus during his 7 year stay. While I can empathize with loneliness and loving someone who would never love you back, what she did was despicable and the gaslighting in that song is thick
According to Jorge from the livestream, he wrote "Not Sorry for Loving You" when he was at his lowest point. I think he was even in tears wben it played. I dont agree with Calypso's actions to what she did with Odysseus, but i understand the feeling. The wanting for someone to like you and then the inevitable stab when its the exact opposite. Again, dont agree with what she did. I just get what she felt at that moment.
True, I relate to the song on the level of: i fell in love w somebody who doesn't love me back, and i couldn't wait for it to release because it sorta captured what i felt.
Since both you and Casper had similar reactions, I wanna mention: when the winions say “it was meant to stop you by design,” they are referring to the storm. Since the previous line before that was “the raging storm inside won’t let you get closer.” The inference being that “won’t let you get closer” and “stop you” are being used to emphasize the purpose of the storm. Easy mishap as both of you had the wind bag in mind when you heard those lyrics and made a quick connection/assumption.
Personally I think the I love you line is meant as more platonically, as in he thinks they couldve been friends in different circumstances or if she didnt push so hard. Also I dont think it was meant to get pity for her actions, more pity for her predicament. Also i think she didnt see him as a fellow inmate, more of a gift, which provides an explanation , if not a good one.
God of the oceans and seas Lord of all horses earthshaker and stormbringer you are correct as well as I think a couple of other titles that I'm missing or forgetting Heck not even just Lord of all horses but creators of them and of the hippocamps which are seahorses and in one of the animatics for ruthlessness he first appeared as a water horse which you can easily say is a hippocamp
@@yoannbelleville7763 probably the first Greek worshipper who saw a horse cross a deep river saw one in the ocean and said "huh well that doesn't seem right". Then saw it dive under the depths of the water and saw a giant hind fin instead of the hind legs.
Adding on to the fact Ody's line in Not Sorry for Loving You makes sense to me in that hes been there with her emotional manipulation for 7 years but also she's getting upset and angry leading up to that. He's appeasing her so he can leave a bit more safely. Which is fucked up but fawning is a trauma response
The way I interpret it is that it’s an explanation for calypso’s behavior, not an excuse. I also think that it’s interesting to compare her “apology” with Odysseus’ to Poseidon. They both explain their behavior while feeling that they did nothing wrong.
I think people focus on the wrong part of his apology, the most important thing is that he made one at all and in doing so failed to learn the thing Poseidon was preaching, that’s why we get his next lines not being about the content of his apology but rather a rejection of the hope that an apology could work and that’s when Poseidon hammers home his point about ruthlessness by killing most of the crew and leaving Odysseus alive to see it (obviously the intent was to kill Odysseus right after but in his own words “But before you go, I need to make you learn how Ruthlessness is mercy upon ourselves”)
The way I see Odysseus saying “I love you”. Is more in the sense that she was forcibly part of his life for 7 years. And that at some part of him was happy to at least have company. And that without her he most definitely would have succumbed to his depression
one thing i particularly like about the Full Speed Ahead reprise is the fact that the missing lyric is *"Make it back alive to our homeland"*, because the goal odysseus had that drove him to be all alone was a desire to get back to his homeland and AUGHHHHH Full Speed Ahead doesn't get the love it deserves i think it's a great song
@@icemagiciangh yes, but he doesn't actually make it back to Ithaca till the next saga, hence it being called the Ithaca Saga, and is the final saga of EPIC.
I like 'Not Sorry for Loving You', it shows Calypso's character really well Also this (19:41) always amuses me when people are like 'omg, the wind bag‽' cause Hermes introduced himself into the song with telling Odysseus not to open it
For me the "i love you, but not in the way u want me to" its odysseus trying to shut her up to leave. Like a strategy to finally talk back to his abuser as he leaves and leaves her behind
It's been said other ways here, and I know folks have made the same types of comment in the Ruthlessness vids for you, but as a reminder, the term "apology'" meant something very different to the ancient greeks than it does to us, and given all the other ways Jorge is using the same mindset as Homer's writing of the Odyssey, it's entirely possible that his characters in EPIC are doing a Hellenic apology, which is a reasoned explanation of actions, without admitting wrongdoing (saying sorry)
18:06, fun fact: I'm a Hellenist (the religious name for Greek mythology) and a devotee of Hermes. We wear Hermes Caduceus as a necklace, like Christians wear the cross. So its cool to see Hermes almost reference that.
Hiii, sorry if it's out of nowhere, but I was looking into worshipping Hermes, and I wanted to get a necklace or some piece of jewellery with Caduceus, but I was kinda hesitant of wearing it as it is nowadays used mostly by people in the medical field so I felt a bit uncomfortable in case someone mistook it for a sign I was a nurse. Has anything similar ever happened to you, and if you maybe have any suggestions about what I should do?😅
@Nadia-id4bu New fear unlocked, I have not experienced that yet. I'm very open about it, so when people ask, I just explain that I'm a Hellenist. If you're in hiding, I'd recommend wearing it under your shirt so people don't see it, but you'll still be wearing it.
@trystaseale3867 That's a good idea, thanks! I'm pretty open about it in safe spaces and my friend group at uni, but not really at home, my parents are strict Christians lol Also, in my country, people are quick to call everything that isn't Christian 'satanic' so I'm not that open about it with people I don't know well😅
@@Nadia-id4buYou could definitely use a caduceus. Although many in the medical field use it, it’s Asclepius’ staff the one that actually has a medical link to our community. That is, a non winged staff with only one snake. Many in the medical field use the caduceus because of the transportation of the ill, given that Hermes was the messenger god. If your parents called you out on your necklace, you could consider telling them that you’re wearing it because of an affinity either in commerce or medicine 😅 could work out.
The ‘i love you’ from Odysseus in not sorry for loving you feels like him helplessly responding to being guilt tripped. She's essentially telling him, ‘i had no one, I was deserted for a century and you spent seven years hating my guts, now you're leaving me as well?!’ and he's like wait no, don't twist it, I never hated you. I was just unhappy and ‘i [do] love you’ is the only way he can think to explain that
It's like Ody saying "no, it's not on you but it's just me. I can't love anyone else as much as my wife" (But idk if this is a sign of manipulation etc, haven't really researched it)
The "If I -- for that I'll say I was wrong" part of NSFLY already rang alarm bells for me, since it's the most common way people who don't think they did anything wrong but are being forced to face that others do think they did approach the subject, by deflecting responsibility and questioning the accusaton's validity with if-statements, before magnanimously admitting that _IF_ something like that really somehow happened, then it was wrong. Jorge's writing is STELLAR. Calypso's lyrics make her so insidious she keeps half-convincing even some listeners.
"Stop giving this man choices!" I mean, it's only as much of a "choice" as Orpheus was given when leading Eurydice out of the Underworld... Literally any god: "Don't do this thing and you're fine." Greek protag: "Got it!" *does the thing he's not supposed to do*
Personally, I think people overthink Calypso’s role in Epic. She’s just an over eager lonely crazy lady. She’s not overly hostile, but just enough to be an antagonist. She’s not evil, just in the wrong and Odysseus never lets it get farther than her suggestions. Idk, that’s my opinion, I don’t think Jorge wanted anything too controversial or triggering, and just wanted to have fun with morally confused character. Her songs are some of the best and she is personally one of my favorite voices in all of epic, so maybe I am biased.
The thing is we don't have any specifics on *what* happened only what was heavily implied from Lip and nsfly, for all we know it was her being overly pushy for the entire time or on the other side it could be closer to the original. Your biased because you enjoy her voice whereas others are on the other side because of their experiences.
@@trewillis7349 do u have a link to Jorge saying that? I've only heard that he implied it during one of his videos. However even *if* she didn't SA him, she still did nothing right(she literally drove Ody to be on a cliff fgs) drake is biased because of his love of her voice like others are because "she's pretty" so overlook any/all possible issues
Even if she doesn't assault him on the island, the power dynamic she uses to take advantage of him being stuck on her island by continually pressuring him is a form of abuse.
@yapy326 yup. regardless of what actually takes place, Ody is literally powerless against her 24/7 and at most can potentially only try to hide(potentially because we don't know if she knows where he is on the island at all times ect), like "bow down to the immortal calypso" is literally you can't do anything so give up.
I'm glad you also noticed how icky the line "I am sorry my love is too much for you" is. That's just her saying "I'm sorry it's your fault you don't like me".
So I have thoughts on the first song. 1) the apology always had that halfway there vibe. "IF i pushed you, IF I cameon too strong" ma'am you literally said "hi buddy you're STUCK! Be my new lover!! :D" 2) I think Oduseus' line is jntended as just a "yeah I don't hate you and if you hadn't been focused on romance and canoodling maybe we could have been friends. Ah well" 3) the animation here helps my overall feelings towards it because Ody's just generally _DONE_ as he walks away and entirely ignores her pleas as to how to process that her unrequited affections (which she now has no opportinity to gaslight him into returning) are as they have always been. Entirely unrequited.
Hey Mortius, the Sky and Sun aren't Aeolus and Apollo... It's Atlas, and Helios. Atlas, the titan who holds the sky and Helios, the driver of the Sun Chariot. Depending on who is telling the story, either Atlas or Helios is Calypso's father. I think the line about the sky and sun are a nod to that...
Atlas is definitely the god of sky, but calling Apollo the god of the sun isn’t necessarily wrong. Depending on what myth you’re reading Apollo or Helios can be the sun. Apollo is the god of radiance and divine distance (hence archery, prophecy, and music [which is used to tell stories] are all related to distance in some way). Helios is a Titan not a god, and Titans are almost always primordial and the personification of a thing rather than gods who have distinct personalities not related to what they rule (also why Atlas is sky). This often puts Apollo as the god of the Sun and Helios as the personification of the sun if that makes sense. So I would say Helios is more technically the sun, but Apollo isn’t not the sun god, it’s super confusing 😭.
I mean....Atlas HOLDS the sky but Ouranos/Oranos/Uranus IS the sky. Gaia's husband, father of the Titans, also technically Aphrodite's father according to I think Homer (as opposed to Ovid who says she's Zeus' daughter). There's a lot of overlap. I believe Atlas' actual domain is something related to astronomy, which could actually still fit as being "the sky" in the song. He was also known as the Titan of the West, as he, Koios, Krios, and Iapetus were each assigned a quarter of the world to rule under Kronos iirc. Mortius' joke's logic still stands, but I think Ouranos and Helios are the most accurate gods if we're looking at the personification of the sky and sun
@@dwell7315 Considering she sided with the titans in the Titanomachy, and that's why she was send to Ogygia, I think having the titan representations of the sky and sun fits better too.
@@TearsOfLa To continue being needlessly pedantic (I care WAY TOO MUCH about mythology lol), Ouranos, along with Gaia (earth), Tartarus (Tartarus/the Underworld), Erebus (darkness), Pontus (ocean), Nyx (night), and maybe others, is a Protogenos/Primordial god, not a Titan. The Protogenoi were the first beings created by Chaos, the first deity and being in existence, and they physically make up the world in which the other gods and living creatures live. Chaos made some of them such as Gaia and Nyx, some of them were made ex nihilo by each other, such as Ouranos who was created by Gaia. It's really confusing and kinda unnecessary but 1. Greek mythology is a hyperfixation of mine and 2. The Protogenoi specifically are some of my favorite deities and their relationship with the other gods is really interesting. I could honestly see myself at some point writing a story where they find themselves as a group at odds with the Olympians and do some crazy shit.
I'm Not Sorry For Loving You really gutted me, not because it made me feel sorry for Calypso's circumstances (cool motive, still abuse, bbg) but because she seems so desperate for love and connection that she absolutely ruins her chances for herself Like, if she'd been friendlyand supportive when Ody washed up, instead of bullying him into a relationship, she could have made a real connection with him. Hell, he might have even tried to help her. But this song hammers home that she doesn't even realize she's shooting herself in the foot. The most loving thing she could do for Odysseus in this situation would be to let him go, and she either can't or won't. (Ody is ironically doing the much more loving thing here, breaking off and making it clear exactly how he feels about her, so that she can have some chance at closure.)
The gods banished her for betrayal. She sided with the Titans during the first war so her punishment was to be trapped on the island and fall in love with anyone who arrives but to never be able to keep any of them there. She should be grateful she wasn't tossed down to Tartarus like the rest of her kin.
7:40 THIS. People were like "Aww at least she apologised" BUT IT WASN'T AN APOLOGY AT ALL??? It's like people saying "Sorry you feel that way" instead of "I'm sorry for what I did that made you feel this way." TWO HUGELY DIFFERENT THINGS. And the "I'm not sorry for loving you" PISSES ME OFF OMGGG. It just comes off as her saying she's not sorry for her actions and the things she put Odysseus through, justifying them in saying it's just her way of loving someone. HATE IT HATE IT HATE IT. Edit: I also don't like the line "I love you" but goddamn the song sounds so good
I am 100% convinced that the reason why Hermes did not tell her that Athena also fought for Odysseus, is because she herself will tell him in the next saga ;;;;
You pointed out everything I thought while first watching/listening to Not Sorry for Loving You. I was the same way, all the way down to, “I don’t really- GIGI WHY ARE YOU HERE _NOW??”_
I've said it once I'll say it again There is a difference between justifying an action and humanizing a person. Calypso's song gives reason for why she basically acts like an teenage girl with no guidance on how to interact with other dudes.
I think that ‘I’m not sorry’ is supposed to just be a transitional song because it indicates in the first verse that things are changing and that Athena won in the last saga and that Ody’s going home
I think the part where Odysseus says he loves her but ‘not in the way you want me to’ means that he is happy that she stopped him from ending himself in love in paradise, but has no romantic feelings towards her
When I first heard Not Sorry For Loving You in the livestream first thought was "OH NO Mortius won't like this at all!" I think the point of that song is both brilliant and very subtle: it lays meaning for the whole Vengeance saga as the piece between the "deus ex machina" saga and the "resolution" saga II. Not going to spoil the fun with details, but it serves both the purpose to highlight the love that Penelope represents for Odysseus and, more importantly, how love and other human feelings are usually not even thinkable by gods: see Athena that learns what friendship really means and wins the God Games -> what she learned to fight for.
I feel like the thing with Calypso's song is definitely like an apology that's not a real apology. But not necessarily bc she doesn’t mean it, but bc she genuinely doesn't understand where she went wrong or what she did was wrong. Im not saying that means she should be forgiven or anything but i think that context is important. Shes a goddess, they have their own rules and way of seeing and doing things that differs so much from mortals. Second, she was left alone on an island for 100 years. No communication with others, no cues on societal norms of that time. Like she doesn't have a shit ton to go on and any example she had were from other gods, who if we're honest, aren't the best role models (cue Zeus, Poseidon, even some of the other Gods who don't care much for mortals and their qualms like Apollo only really caring about the sirens). Given that she just kind of did what she did. But like i said, i obv don't think she was right, and she doesnt deserve to be forgiven for ignorance, but at the same point i can't help but feel pity for her. Like what a sad creature she truly is and likely will be for years to come.
She is very much frustrated, and she's not happy with the lot she has been given, but she does say that she is wrong for certain things, and that she is sorry for certain things. Why don't you see that as a real apology?
@@ThatsMrSomeGuyToYou i mean it's like an apology without fully being one. Yes she's like I'm wrong for pushing you. And like that is where it's like, OK yeah you get it, what you did was wrong. But then turning around and saying that if you hate me, I'm sorry my love is too much for you? Like your basically saying that, I'm sorry you just can't handle all the love I have for you and that's your problem. That part just feels so manipulative. Like feel bad for me, also it's not really my fault I love you, you just don't know how to handle it. Like who'd take that part as an apology? Thats why I do feel like she apologized but not really. Like you realize these things were wrong, but the phrasing of 'if' also takes away all the accountability on her end. Like she doesn't even know if those were really the issues but if it was, my bad. An apology can't be real unless you understand what you're apologizing for.
@@shalomproduction6367 Okay, first of all, we don't know if she forced him into bed. That kind of thing has not been included in the musical, and the musical is not a direct documentary of The Odyssey. Liberties have been taken with characters and story lines, so you can't just assume that things happened as it did in the original story. Secondly, she has already said that she was wrong, if she pushed him, came on too strong, or ambushed him. She has made it a separate and implicit point that she was wrong in being that way. But yeah, she kind of doubles down on that point in also saying sorry for it. ... But did you have some kind of point? Did you feel like you were countering something I had mentioned earlier?
I’m also kinda lost on not sorry for loving you but I think the point is to show a little more depth to Calypso’s character, she’s a manipulative and horrible person but the song shows she’s still a person and I think the why doesn’t excuse her actions but it informs them and makes them a little more understandable
with this song, i don't think she was ever being manipulative (at least intentionally), she was more so really immature. she's functionally a child in the body of an adult, and having those desires without having any indication of right decisions vs the wrong ones is bound to lead to some bad things happening.
Oh my gods I just realized something- spoiler warning for those who haven’t watched the stream animation for get in the water!! “When strangers lurk around the isle, when danger greets you with a smile” COULD BE REFERRING TO POSEIDON!! Poseidon has been waiting on Ithaca’s shores for years, AND HE’S DRAWN TO BE SMILING WHEN ODYSSEUS FINALLY ARRIVES
from what I understood of the song, “Not Sorry for Loving You” when Odysseus says, “I love you but not in the way you want me to” I took that to mean that he was manipulating her as in the next scene his face was dead calm while right before that he had a lot of emotion in his face
Nah don’t worry, you’re me when it comes to Not Sorry For Loving You. HOWEVER there is a great animatic of it that follows a more sad theme for it by MauvetheFae that I highly recommend watching!
The way I'm understanding it, Hermes is laughing at Ody saying "Then Who?" because Whoo = Owl = Athena? Like, Ody is answering his own question and doesn't realize it, but Hermes does. Don't forget all of the Who and What interjections in earlier sagas. In particular the angry owl-like "WHOOO" that Ody asks to Tiresias in "No Longer You". Jorge likes to sprinkle in the owl easter eggs in reference to Athena.
I will always say and die saying it to my descendants, Calypso's song is the same as a youtuber's apology "Oh, I hurt you so much mentally, you almost try to find out if you can fly off a cliff but I also suffered a lot, the blame for this also falls on you **Plays the ukulele**"
@TearsOfLa I don't know if you fixed the joke because in the youtuber's apologies they always play the Ukulele, that's why I said that she started playing it... But thanks I guess
@ValentinaB2001 in this case, Calypsos instrument is the steel drum/hand pan thing, so it would be her youtuber apology instrument, and it is equally pretentious. Also the ftfy was a joke too
@TearsOfLa Now that you mention it, it would be funny to see a youtuber apology with a steel drum... And with someone who really knows how to play their instrument instead of just doing the E-B-A-D step that they almost always do.
I'm really thankful for your commentary of I'm not Sorry for Loving You because I felt the same. And it seemed like everyone else was feeling bad for her and missing the signs of manipulation and narcissim, and as someone who's been in an abusive relationship who made very similar comments as Calyspo did, this song was extremely triggering and it was hard to see everyone just fall in love with it. I'm not saying the music and vocals aren't incredible because they are, but it's hard for me to listen to. Anyways, thanks as always for your honest reactions!
While I thankfully never had an abusive relationship,I was just feeling so icky at sorry for not loving you that I simply did not put it in my personnal epic playlist. I have no gripes against Calypso's vo,she's great,and the visuals were really nice,but I cannot put away the very VERY icky feeling of this song basically trying to excuse her actions. I don't care if she was alone,I care about the fact that she emotionnally manipulated this man for 7 YEARS. I hope you are doing well,and healing from this awful,awful experience,I cannot fathom how badly this have been to you
@@ryomahoshi4529 thank you. Thankfully it’s been 8 years and I’ve had lots of therapy. But doesn’t stop songs like this from bringing back the memories. Definitely icky!
@@maddibrook7 that's great that you got therapy for it,and I'm glad you've been away from this situation for almost a decade now. But yeah,icky song even if the intentions weren't for it to be icky
Hi! I found your reaction yesterday and i usually dont comment much on videos but just to say I loved this a lot. And i was so so glad to finally find someone who was really uncomfortable with Calypso's song as well. I loved how respectful you stayed (because Wangui is an amazing singer) while also expressing your opinion. The slipper was such a moooooood. Im going to try to watch more of your reactions because of this video! Keep up the good work, man!
Thank you Mortis.. your opinion of the conflicted emotions towards "I'm Not Sorry For Loving You" helped me not feel alone with my own emotions towards the song.
I think, when talking about Not Sorry For Loving You, it's important to realize that there is a MASSIVE difference between the lines "I am sorry my love's too much for you" and the line "I am sorry, my love's too much for you." The first is manipulation while the second sounds more genuine and an acknowledgement of their differences. And despite the lack of a comma on the livestream, I'm not sure which one Jorge intended, because the grammar and spelling on the livestream lyrics hasn't exactly been perfect in the past. (Cut to Warrior of the Mind when the lyrics had "Yound Odysseus").
Yeah I know that some people have already covered it but I'll reiterate for the sake of consistency! Aeolus didn't really intend to trick and mess with Ody. "It was meant to stop you by design, because no mortal can pass Poseidon's storm" infers that Poseidon created the storm!
in all fairness SHE didnt trap him there, nor was SHE holding him. she is also trapped there. he ONLY ended up on that island because ZEUS willed it so because its HIS CURSE so if people want to be mad they can be mad at him. as far as epic goes she was clingy and thats it. there was no SA or attempted SA. she never forced herself on him. this story is independant of the original.
She disregarded his feelings and used the “Im a goddess what can you do about it?” card in a previous song, even if she didnt physically force ody into anything she sure did force him to be in a “relationship” with her. The song still feels gross.
@Astrophel24 ah.... no. She used the Goddess line to inform him he couldn't kill her, and it should be mentioned if she really wanted him in a creepy way she has mind controlling powers. But she never uses them...
I googled her story, cause I was honestly curious, and she was forced to provide the items for odysessus' boat as well as the wind to sail him to another island for supplies... Then after he left she ended herself which i think is really sad 😢 the story ends so sad for her and him cuz during the days she cries for him to love her and at night they spend the night so it mustve been really confusing for the both of them
Morgan Clay’s Get in the Water is what got me onto EPIC, and I’ve been addicted ever since. 😝 Calypso’s song is a complete classic narcissist song. We can empathise for the situation that put her there, but certainly not sympathise for what she did to Ody. That was inexcusable. I think him telling her he loves her is a combination of a little Stockholm syndrome, and also the fact he says it directly after she sings “for once i wish you would lie to me…” so he does. Dangerous is such a bop. I love Ody fighting off all the different things that pop up, meanwhile Hermes is just bopping and twerking along. 😅 Oh and favourite winion is clearly Jorge’s sister. 👑
She kept him prisoner. A gilded cage is still a cage. Stockholm syndrome caused by being cared for and loved by someone who keeps you locked up is still stockholm syndrome 🤷
@@Narcissus584Stockholm Syndrome was made up by the guy who “discovered” it. It’s not a real syndrome, the guy just couldn’t accept that captives could organically care for their captors
@@Narcissus584there is literally nothing to suggest Stockholm syndrome is compelling him here. He would want to STAY on the island if he had Stockholm syndrome. Come on people
@@Narcissus584 Those aren't mutually exclusive, yes objectively he was trapped there but at the same time he was in such a vulnerable state that i can totally see him being grateful to her for keeping him alive despite everything. I think Ody's "i love you" is him being conflicted at this person who didn't have bad intentions but still hurt him a lot, overstepped boundaries and kept him prisoner for years. He can't hate her but he could never love her either
The difference between your and Caspers reaction to Not Sorry For Loving You is really funny to me, because it's the exact same reactions me and my friend had
I love that little bit where it goes "wash it away like the blood your hands have *known* I *know* if you dance with fate; then I *know* I *know* you'll enhance your state"
Thank you Mortius, of all the reactors you are are the only one who i've seen have such a visceral reaction as I did the the silence at 14:29 in dangerous
I don't get the response to Not Sorry For Loving You. Does anyone really think Jorge was making a case for kidnapping? The song was clearly about explaining where she was coming from and why she acts the way she acts. You can say you feel bad for someone suffering in solitary confinement without going on to say that Odysseus should stay. Everyone keeps "but that doesn't excuse her" like excusing her was on the table.
Man I really enjoyed vibing to Dangerous through these headphones... Imagine how cool it would be if you could get 5% off those headphones and any other Razer Products, while also directly benefiting me as a creator OH WAIT YOU CAN BY FOLLOWING MY NEW AFFILIATE LINK razer.a9yw.net/c/5845683/642901/10229
They are pretty good
I have a suggestion for Open Arms reacts! You should react to Duvet box's 600 Strike Animatic!!! IT WAS AMAZING!!!
You and Casper should watch the I’m not sorry for loving you animatic by the same person who y’all watched for love in paridise it’s amazing and sad
speaking of dangerous, you should totally listen to troys (hermes) solo music if you haven't so great! not say a vid or anything but just in general his voice so so smooth love him.
i also have new headphones and i agree i am just vibeing and singing to the best son ever
10:18 **gigi jumpscare**
GIGI HIIII❤(how am I first lol)
gottem in one shot 😂
Conflicting emotions?
Gigi: WOULD YOU LIKE SOME MORE? 👁️👄👁️
😆I just got to that part and immediately came to the comments to see if you were here already, love your animatics for this series.
Mission Accomplished 🫡
"I wish you would lie and say."
And odysseus says I love you. She asks him to lie and he does. At least that's my take.
I completely agree
I understood it like "as a Friend" but maybe you are right.
In my head, its something that he said to distract her while he made his escape
Sounds right to me, Odysseus spends the ENTIRE Odyssey lying about absolutely everything, generally without any reason other than Odysseus is a complulsive liar
Aeolus went to Poseidon with a fake mustache and said im the storm inspector you storm don't seem to pass so I'll take it to my shop in this bag here
I need gigi on that rn
I really want to like this post, but its currently on 777 likes, so I'll come back later 😅
And then Poseidon is like “yeah, yeah, sure.”, lets her go and sits on the rock saying stuff like “Seems like king is returning home, and gets no proper greeting. But not to worry, a greeting from a god is a blessing~”
"It was meant to stop you by design" wasn't saying that Aeolus was messing with him. It was saying that the storm trapped in the bag, created by Posiedon, was meant to stop him. Aeolus just put it in the bag
Exactly. In Storm, Ody questions if the storm they're facing is natural or divine, Dangerous confirmed that it was the doing of Poseidon. He made it specifically so they could not make it to Ithaca. Eurolychus made a big mistake opening that bag back in Keep Your Friends Close.
To be fair, Aeolus was also DEFINITELY trying to mess with them
@@aadityayanamandra8846 In the musical, yeah i think so too. In mythology, Aeolus literally warns him the winds are treacherous. It's them who whisper things in the ears of the sailor.
@@conradoccaminha In the mythology, Aeolus basically hits Odysseus with "yeah man I'd love to help you again but you are CURSED big time." He's clearly not malicious in the book
@@aadityayanamandra8846 "I'd help you, but I don't want the God who hates you to also hate me" type shit, a completely understandable stance.
"I'm Not Sorry For Loving You" is more about detailing Calypso's exact flavor of delulu than anything else. Ody's "confession" was him clarifying that any bond he had to her wasn't genuine. Something I noticed is that the instrumentation gets sparse when he says it, as though their relationship was playing the notes, but not making the music.
That's a great explanation. She really is delulu in a unique way. And I don't think that Ody loved her in any way. More like he's used to having to let her have her way to get out of worse trouble. As it's not said that she raped him in musical, I think that this is his way of keeping her away. If he gives her something he can buy time, as she would want Ody to submit fully. So if he loves her in any form she would think that it's only a matter of time till he loves her romantically.
The thing that I wish Jorge could play with “Time can take a heavy toll” line is that hearing scream for seven year can take a heavy toll but what can silence for 100 year do to you while knowing that it will continue for ETERNITY? Just for the fact that you got punished for just supporting your father like most daughter would do
i love how ppl r using delulu instead of delusional even in a serious conversation lmaoo
I like the way you described what the music was doing! I also couldn't help but notice that despite Odysseus being there, there was no guitar, like those words weren't even his own.
huh. i thought it was more him saying "it's been 7 years so we're kinda friends now, but i still don't love you", although i made this interpretation back in the snippets era so i had no idea what was the context for this song...
I love how it was like "I have complicated feelings" *presses play*
S tier profile and username
Personally, I don't think it's intended as a forgiveness song, but more of a contextual one, meant to give explanation (explanation, not excuse) to Calypso's behavior so it's not just "she's doing this for shits and giggles". You CAN feel sympathy for her ig (if you want to? 🤷🏽♀️) but it's not necessarily the intention imo. If anything, it's to hammer home how manipulative and dismissive she is of her actions and how much she views her circumstances as an excuse for her behavior.
As for Ody's "I love you" line, honestly? I think it's a combo of something Stockholm-adjacent and simply wanting to try to appease a goddess. Like yes, she's letting him go but he has no idea why or because of whom. In his mind, she could probably just as easily pull a switch-up and decide "Nevermind I'm keeping you here", so I think it was partially that he DOES actually have some complicated feelings for her (as many people do for their abusers) and partially because she's still infinitely more powerful than him.
Yes you can feel sympathy for the neglect she was put through by Zeus but it in no way justifies how she treated Ody.
@@islasullivan3463 Exactly, it's an example of understanding why someone does something or why someone is the way they are but not excusing or justifying it.
The interesting thing is: SHE can't release him. She's cursed. That's why all of God Games happened, so Zeus could release him. So, if Ody had known that, would he have appeased her?
lampyrcy made an animatic that kinda reframes calypso's last few lines. there, it's more so her beating herself up, whereas in gigi's animation, she's getting mad at odysseus. i kinda prefer lampyrcy's a bit more, but it's really interesting how ambiguous those last few lines actually are.
@@isaiahjohnson3487 I’m not as familiar with Calypso’s story, so I may be wrong, but I thought she could let people go, she just doesn’t (probably because of her isolation), so Zeus has to come in to force her.
Calypso, sniffling- “Someone’s here. They have the power to take you from me.”
* Cut to the Disco Queen GSP given said power twerking on a raft *
When this musical gets a stage production, Hermes better be on roller skates.
Or he keeps zipping across the stage on different things, a skateboard, Heelys, a scooter, a unicycle... I'm getting carried away.
Like in Xanadu, the Musical?
I love this!
HERMES ON ROLLERSKATES!
And they have little wings
The only reason I’ll accept Hermes not telling Odysseus about Athena is for the girlie to tell him herself.
At least once she’s out of God Hospital
God hospital is crazy 😭
LMAO God Hospital sounds like something straight out of a Rick Riordan book 🤣
She’s just passed out waiting for Apollo or Asclepius to heal her on
@@bored_potato I can already imagine Percy Jackson saying that to Apollo and he's like...
What in the Hades
Infirmary not hospital ( I did 8 syllables
for a reason)
I am so awesome.
I didn’t like that Odysseus said “I love you” either at first but considering he says it right after Calypso’s line about even wanting him to lie I feel he doesn’t actually mean it even platonically. I think it’s more likely he can sympathise with her, enough to lie a bit but not enough to actually love her in any way. Gigi’s animatic also show Ody as completely cold and emotionless when he says it and he leaves straight after which further confirms that in my opinion
I will say though that when these song snippets were first getting released Jorge liked comments saying that Ody loved her platonically so I think we need to not consider Homer’s Odyssey too much in our readings of the material. Not that it’s a bad or wrong interpretation as it’s going to be personal to every listener im just pointing out possible authorial intent. I hope this comes across okay I just wish more people knew what Jorge was said both on TikTok and his Discord over the years.
Kinda makes it crueler when she's losing the only person she's ever know and given a moment of hope before tossing it aside and walking away
I kinda viewed it as him wanting to twist the proverbial knife in to hurt her even 1% the way she has hurt him the past 7 years she held him against his will.
It's more like a way to sever the final tie that kept him there. Yes she kept him prisoner for 7 years, and SA'd him during that time but it's also kinda like Stockholm Syndrom. For 7 years she was the ONLY person Ody had any contact with. Forget everything she did, she was the only voice he heard, the one person his eyes saw. And in his darkest despair she provided what she thought of as love and comfort. Ody was so traumatized that to his mind he probably saw it the same way. He probably did have some type of affection for her due to that alone. I wouldn't be surprised
I also thought he said it to lie to her cause that’s what she wanted. He felt a little bit of sympathy and used that as a parting gift.
Calypso in Epic: I'm not sorry for loving you.
Calypso in Greek mythology: I'm sorry not sorry bout what I said!
I just wanna have some fun!
HAHAH😂
Sorry not Sorry for what I said!
Get up this head 😊
LOL
SAY OH WELL
Honestly trauma breeds trauma and I'm not sorry shows how she's both a victim and a tormentor. I blame Zeus for trapping two people with conflicting needs together on a deserted island.
That was calypso's punisment that was the point
@markjack9772 and it was also Odysseus' punishment by Zeus. He thought it was funny.
Thats a good take thanks god-
Fun fact: At 19:30 you see Odysseus cutting a hydra’s head and then cauterising the stump with a torch in order for it to not grow back. While Ody didn’t encounter a hydra in his travels, Heracles did, and used this very tactic to defeat it.
Thank you for that Mortius. When Hermes was like "I'm not the one who fought for you" I was like, come on, tell him what Athena did!!
Same!!!!
I think it makes sense that he doesn’t. Hermes is a trickster. He helps, yes, but he also creates a bit of chaos in doing so. So him leaving Odysseus without an answer if quite fitting
@@sevyluv333 it's his entire personality in EPIC. He shows up, gives Ody a mcguffin for this one part of his journey home, gives very little explanation, says "Don't thank me, friend." with another bit added to it, tells him good luck, then dips.
@@sevyluv333 I suppose that's true.. Still, it would have been nice if Odysseus could get at least a hint of how Athena did to help get him home after their falling out. Eh, oh well.
@@abthedragon4921 Sure, I’d be nice. We the audience want Odysseus to know what we know. But I think it is better this way. (I also don’t believe Athena is dead, so there’s that.)
One thing that improves Not Sorry For Loving You, for me at least, is that from Ody’s expression it looks more like a “there I said it now leave me alone” thing and less of a “I love you just I don’t see you like that” thing
I didn't take "It's meant to stop you by design" as an indication that Aeolus was messing with him, but just that Poseidon wasn't leaving things to chance. The storm wasn't just a big strong storm that could in theory be fought through, but a (semi-?)sentient force of nature that wasn't just in the way, but would actively work against any countermeasure Ody came up with
And my favourite winion is clearly the sister winion. Him having his whole family join will never not be cute and amazing
I may be wrong but I think 'I'm not sorry for loving you' is meant to be an introspective song. Like a song meant to make you realize that good intentions don't really mean anything if your actions have bad consequences. That's kind of the theme of the whole musical so I think it makes sense. (If you take Calypso's words at face value that she really convinced herself she was saving Odyseus)
See my nuanced take that I’ll put to TikTok once everyone calms down is that NSFLY would actually be a great song if she was singing it AFTER he was already gone
@@officialmortiusI don't use Tik Tok and I am glad to have seen this comment, I do like that critique. Would you consider posting that tik tok as a TH-cam short too?
@officialmortius I actually agree with that. I think I would have preferred if the plot of the song wasn't about her trying to convince him to stay, because then at least we would have seen a moment of growth. Not that it would have fixed the past but it would be a more consistent characterization. I just don't think the implicit manipulation of it all makes a lot of sense in context but maybe that's just me being stubborn about applying human psychology to the divine.
@@BourbonRose_ Maybe I'm just an optimist, but I mostly just saw it as a goodbye song. You know, just not trying to leave anything unsaid.
" and IF i pushed you, or IF i came on too strong". calipso, ody almost jumped of a cliff to get away from you, i think we're past IF
THAT'S WHAT IM SAYING 🗣🗣🗣
I think we’re past: saying “I’m not sorry.” Cause that just makes you look bad.
Agree, her gaslighting is over 9000
More gaslighting from gods
Especially because in many versions of the Odyssey, she SA’d Odysseus during his 7 year stay. While I can empathize with loneliness and loving someone who would never love you back, what she did was despicable and the gaslighting in that song is thick
According to Jorge from the livestream, he wrote "Not Sorry for Loving You" when he was at his lowest point. I think he was even in tears wben it played.
I dont agree with Calypso's actions to what she did with Odysseus, but i understand the feeling. The wanting for someone to like you and then the inevitable stab when its the exact opposite.
Again, dont agree with what she did. I just get what she felt at that moment.
True, I relate to the song on the level of: i fell in love w somebody who doesn't love me back, and i couldn't wait for it to release because it sorta captured what i felt.
The only thing i get is that tartarus is a more fitting punishment for her
Since both you and Casper had similar reactions, I wanna mention: when the winions say “it was meant to stop you by design,” they are referring to the storm. Since the previous line before that was “the raging storm inside won’t let you get closer.” The inference being that “won’t let you get closer” and “stop you” are being used to emphasize the purpose of the storm.
Easy mishap as both of you had the wind bag in mind when you heard those lyrics and made a quick connection/assumption.
Personally I think the I love you line is meant as more platonically, as in he thinks they couldve been friends in different circumstances or if she didnt push so hard. Also I dont think it was meant to get pity for her actions, more pity for her predicament. Also i think she didnt see him as a fellow inmate, more of a gift, which provides an explanation , if not a good one.
Oh it was clearly meant platonically, I think Mortius's complaint was that, in his opinion, she doesn't deserve even _that_ much from Ody.
Chat, he didn't notice Hermes twerking at 19:31
At least mason did lmao
@@DinoandGalaxymason another person reacts?
@@I_AM_HYDRAA Mason is Mortius' editor
@ ahhh thanks for telling you
Sad it's my favorite part 😅😅
It's Poseidon who made the storm, not Aeolus. It was already confirmed in "suffering".
God of the oceans and seas Lord of all horses earthshaker and stormbringer you are correct as well as I think a couple of other titles that I'm missing or forgetting Heck not even just Lord of all horses but creators of them and of the hippocamps which are seahorses and in one of the animatics for ruthlessness he first appeared as a water horse which you can easily say is a hippocamp
@@derekconrad3136 Speeking of, I'd really like to know who was the first guy who saw an hippocamp and thought "hey, that thing look like a horse".
@@yoannbelleville7763 probably the first Greek worshipper who saw a horse cross a deep river saw one in the ocean and said "huh well that doesn't seem right". Then saw it dive under the depths of the water and saw a giant hind fin instead of the hind legs.
I love the part at the end "I'm not the one who fought for you""then who" and Hermes laughs because Athens animal is an owl
Omg ok that's actually so funny LOOL
Adding on to the fact Ody's line in Not Sorry for Loving You makes sense to me in that hes been there with her emotional manipulation for 7 years but also she's getting upset and angry leading up to that. He's appeasing her so he can leave a bit more safely. Which is fucked up but fawning is a trauma response
The way I interpret it is that it’s an explanation for calypso’s behavior, not an excuse. I also think that it’s interesting to compare her “apology” with Odysseus’ to Poseidon. They both explain their behavior while feeling that they did nothing wrong.
I think people focus on the wrong part of his apology, the most important thing is that he made one at all and in doing so failed to learn the thing Poseidon was preaching, that’s why we get his next lines not being about the content of his apology but rather a rejection of the hope that an apology could work and that’s when Poseidon hammers home his point about ruthlessness by killing most of the crew and leaving Odysseus alive to see it (obviously the intent was to kill Odysseus right after but in his own words “But before you go, I need to make you learn how
Ruthlessness is mercy upon ourselves”)
The way I see Odysseus saying “I love you”. Is more in the sense that she was forcibly part of his life for 7 years. And that at some part of him was happy to at least have company. And that without her he most definitely would have succumbed to his depression
one thing i particularly like about the Full Speed Ahead reprise is the fact that the missing lyric is *"Make it back alive to our homeland"*, because the goal odysseus had that drove him to be all alone was a desire to get back to his homeland and AUGHHHHH Full Speed Ahead doesn't get the love it deserves i think it's a great song
Mortius prepare yourself buddy
(Depression is imminent)💀
Or, counter- happiness is imminent because our boy finally gets to make his way home
@@icemagiciangh yes, but he doesn't actually make it back to Ithaca till the next saga, hence it being called the Ithaca Saga, and is the final saga of EPIC.
@@Scar-Predator I know. That’s why I said “make his _way_ home”. Not there yet, but soon 💚
I like 'Not Sorry for Loving You', it shows Calypso's character really well
Also this (19:41) always amuses me when people are like 'omg, the wind bag‽' cause Hermes introduced himself into the song with telling Odysseus not to open it
Ikr lol
Yea a monster
For me the "i love you, but not in the way u want me to" its odysseus trying to shut her up to leave. Like a strategy to finally talk back to his abuser as he leaves and leaves her behind
Waiting...Waiting...
Nooo! Pls not me crying from that line whenever I hear it.😢😢
Odysseyus when you come home I’ll be waiting
😢
Even if its the last thing i see ill be waiting
Me waiting on Mortius for the next EPIC reaction vid
It's been said other ways here, and I know folks have made the same types of comment in the Ruthlessness vids for you, but as a reminder, the term "apology'" meant something very different to the ancient greeks than it does to us, and given all the other ways Jorge is using the same mindset as Homer's writing of the Odyssey, it's entirely possible that his characters in EPIC are doing a Hellenic apology, which is a reasoned explanation of actions, without admitting wrongdoing (saying sorry)
18:06, fun fact: I'm a Hellenist (the religious name for Greek mythology) and a devotee of Hermes. We wear Hermes Caduceus as a necklace, like Christians wear the cross. So its cool to see Hermes almost reference that.
Hiii, sorry if it's out of nowhere, but I was looking into worshipping Hermes, and I wanted to get a necklace or some piece of jewellery with Caduceus, but I was kinda hesitant of wearing it as it is nowadays used mostly by people in the medical field so I felt a bit uncomfortable in case someone mistook it for a sign I was a nurse. Has anything similar ever happened to you, and if you maybe have any suggestions about what I should do?😅
@Nadia-id4bu New fear unlocked, I have not experienced that yet. I'm very open about it, so when people ask, I just explain that I'm a Hellenist. If you're in hiding, I'd recommend wearing it under your shirt so people don't see it, but you'll still be wearing it.
@trystaseale3867 That's a good idea, thanks!
I'm pretty open about it in safe spaces and my friend group at uni, but not really at home, my parents are strict Christians lol
Also, in my country, people are quick to call everything that isn't Christian 'satanic' so I'm not that open about it with people I don't know well😅
@@Nadia-id4buYou could definitely use a caduceus. Although many in the medical field use it, it’s Asclepius’ staff the one that actually has a medical link to our community. That is, a non winged staff with only one snake. Many in the medical field use the caduceus because of the transportation of the ill, given that Hermes was the messenger god. If your parents called you out on your necklace, you could consider telling them that you’re wearing it because of an affinity either in commerce or medicine 😅 could work out.
@@mariokestler5390Didn’t think people still worshiped the Greek Pantheon. Not my style but neat.
The ‘i love you’ from Odysseus in not sorry for loving you feels like him helplessly responding to being guilt tripped. She's essentially telling him, ‘i had no one, I was deserted for a century and you spent seven years hating my guts, now you're leaving me as well?!’ and he's like wait no, don't twist it, I never hated you. I was just unhappy and ‘i [do] love you’ is the only way he can think to explain that
It's like Ody saying "no, it's not on you but it's just me. I can't love anyone else as much as my wife"
(But idk if this is a sign of manipulation etc, haven't really researched it)
The "If I -- for that I'll say I was wrong" part of NSFLY already rang alarm bells for me, since it's the most common way people who don't think they did anything wrong but are being forced to face that others do think they did approach the subject, by deflecting responsibility and questioning the accusaton's validity with if-statements, before magnanimously admitting that _IF_ something like that really somehow happened, then it was wrong.
Jorge's writing is STELLAR. Calypso's lyrics make her so insidious she keeps half-convincing even some listeners.
"Stop giving this man choices!" I mean, it's only as much of a "choice" as Orpheus was given when leading Eurydice out of the Underworld...
Literally any god: "Don't do this thing and you're fine."
Greek protag: "Got it!" *does the thing he's not supposed to do*
20:16 I think what they mean is that POSEIDON’S storm is in that bag. And that THAT storm was made to stop him.
Personally, I think people overthink Calypso’s role in Epic. She’s just an over eager lonely crazy lady. She’s not overly hostile, but just enough to be an antagonist. She’s not evil, just in the wrong and Odysseus never lets it get farther than her suggestions. Idk, that’s my opinion, I don’t think Jorge wanted anything too controversial or triggering, and just wanted to have fun with morally confused character. Her songs are some of the best and she is personally one of my favorite voices in all of epic, so maybe I am biased.
The thing is we don't have any specifics on *what* happened only what was heavily implied from Lip and nsfly, for all we know it was her being overly pushy for the entire time or on the other side it could be closer to the original. Your biased because you enjoy her voice whereas others are on the other side because of their experiences.
@@phoenix_Talaria Jorge has specifcally stated that she doesn't SA him in this version, so everything Drake said is 100% correct.
@@trewillis7349 do u have a link to Jorge saying that? I've only heard that he implied it during one of his videos. However even *if* she didn't SA him, she still did nothing right(she literally drove Ody to be on a cliff fgs) drake is biased because of his love of her voice like others are because "she's pretty" so overlook any/all possible issues
Even if she doesn't assault him on the island, the power dynamic she uses to take advantage of him being stuck on her island by continually pressuring him is a form of abuse.
@yapy326 yup. regardless of what actually takes place, Ody is literally powerless against her 24/7 and at most can potentially only try to hide(potentially because we don't know if she knows where he is on the island at all times ect), like "bow down to the immortal calypso" is literally you can't do anything so give up.
I'm glad you also noticed how icky the line "I am sorry my love is too much for you" is. That's just her saying "I'm sorry it's your fault you don't like me".
So I have thoughts on the first song.
1) the apology always had that halfway there vibe. "IF i pushed you, IF I cameon too strong" ma'am you literally said "hi buddy you're STUCK! Be my new lover!! :D"
2) I think Oduseus' line is jntended as just a "yeah I don't hate you and if you hadn't been focused on romance and canoodling maybe we could have been friends. Ah well"
3) the animation here helps my overall feelings towards it because Ody's just generally _DONE_ as he walks away and entirely ignores her pleas as to how to process that her unrequited affections (which she now has no opportinity to gaslight him into returning) are as they have always been. Entirely unrequited.
Hey Mortius, the Sky and Sun aren't Aeolus and Apollo... It's Atlas, and Helios. Atlas, the titan who holds the sky and Helios, the driver of the Sun Chariot.
Depending on who is telling the story, either Atlas or Helios is Calypso's father. I think the line about the sky and sun are a nod to that...
Atlas is definitely the god of sky, but calling Apollo the god of the sun isn’t necessarily wrong. Depending on what myth you’re reading Apollo or Helios can be the sun. Apollo is the god of radiance and divine distance (hence archery, prophecy, and music [which is used to tell stories] are all related to distance in some way). Helios is a Titan not a god, and Titans are almost always primordial and the personification of a thing rather than gods who have distinct personalities not related to what they rule (also why Atlas is sky). This often puts Apollo as the god of the Sun and Helios as the personification of the sun if that makes sense. So I would say Helios is more technically the sun, but Apollo isn’t not the sun god, it’s super confusing 😭.
I mean....Atlas HOLDS the sky but Ouranos/Oranos/Uranus IS the sky. Gaia's husband, father of the Titans, also technically Aphrodite's father according to I think Homer (as opposed to Ovid who says she's Zeus' daughter). There's a lot of overlap. I believe Atlas' actual domain is something related to astronomy, which could actually still fit as being "the sky" in the song. He was also known as the Titan of the West, as he, Koios, Krios, and Iapetus were each assigned a quarter of the world to rule under Kronos iirc. Mortius' joke's logic still stands, but I think Ouranos and Helios are the most accurate gods if we're looking at the personification of the sky and sun
@@dwell7315 Considering she sided with the titans in the Titanomachy, and that's why she was send to Ogygia, I think having the titan representations of the sky and sun fits better too.
@@TearsOfLa To continue being needlessly pedantic (I care WAY TOO MUCH about mythology lol), Ouranos, along with Gaia (earth), Tartarus (Tartarus/the Underworld), Erebus (darkness), Pontus (ocean), Nyx (night), and maybe others, is a Protogenos/Primordial god, not a Titan. The Protogenoi were the first beings created by Chaos, the first deity and being in existence, and they physically make up the world in which the other gods and living creatures live. Chaos made some of them such as Gaia and Nyx, some of them were made ex nihilo by each other, such as Ouranos who was created by Gaia.
It's really confusing and kinda unnecessary but 1. Greek mythology is a hyperfixation of mine and 2. The Protogenoi specifically are some of my favorite deities and their relationship with the other gods is really interesting. I could honestly see myself at some point writing a story where they find themselves as a group at odds with the Olympians and do some crazy shit.
I'm Not Sorry For Loving You really gutted me, not because it made me feel sorry for Calypso's circumstances (cool motive, still abuse, bbg) but because she seems so desperate for love and connection that she absolutely ruins her chances for herself
Like, if she'd been friendlyand supportive when Ody washed up, instead of bullying him into a relationship, she could have made a real connection with him. Hell, he might have even tried to help her.
But this song hammers home that she doesn't even realize she's shooting herself in the foot. The most loving thing she could do for Odysseus in this situation would be to let him go, and she either can't or won't.
(Ody is ironically doing the much more loving thing here, breaking off and making it clear exactly how he feels about her, so that she can have some chance at closure.)
The gods banished her for betrayal. She sided with the Titans during the first war so her punishment was to be trapped on the island and fall in love with anyone who arrives but to never be able to keep any of them there.
She should be grateful she wasn't tossed down to Tartarus like the rest of her kin.
@ but she’s just a little guy and it was her birthday. You can’t send a little guy to Tartarus on her birthday :(
@@workchannel8053 She was a war criminal and a traitor.
7:40 THIS. People were like "Aww at least she apologised" BUT IT WASN'T AN APOLOGY AT ALL??? It's like people saying "Sorry you feel that way" instead of "I'm sorry for what I did that made you feel this way." TWO HUGELY DIFFERENT THINGS. And the "I'm not sorry for loving you" PISSES ME OFF OMGGG. It just comes off as her saying she's not sorry for her actions and the things she put Odysseus through, justifying them in saying it's just her way of loving someone. HATE IT HATE IT HATE IT.
Edit: I also don't like the line "I love you" but goddamn the song sounds so good
I can't believe you missed Twerkmes! Also props for coming up with that name, it's hilarious
Odyssey: Then *who*??
Hermes: *giggles*
Odyssey: Why is that funny?
Hermes: ..nevermind
I am 100% convinced that the reason why Hermes did not tell her that Athena also fought for Odysseus, is because she herself will tell him in the next saga ;;;;
You pointed out everything I thought while first watching/listening to Not Sorry for Loving You. I was the same way, all the way down to, “I don’t really- GIGI WHY ARE YOU HERE _NOW??”_
I've said it once I'll say it again
There is a difference between justifying an action and humanizing a person. Calypso's song gives reason for why she basically acts like an teenage girl with no guidance on how to interact with other dudes.
She isnt a child she knows damn well what she did
7:38 Her and ody have one thing in common. Neither of them know how to properly apologize lol.
Being acountable, seeing others as having valid feelings not being a selfish piece of shit . . .
I think that ‘I’m not sorry’ is supposed to just be a transitional song because it indicates in the first verse that things are changing and that Athena won in the last saga and that Ody’s going home
I think the part where Odysseus says he loves her but ‘not in the way you want me to’ means that he is happy that she stopped him from ending himself in love in paradise, but has no romantic feelings towards her
"Just tell him to do something!" Last time that happened, a defenseless infant was murdered because of who the father was.
He also decided to doxx himself and his social security number to a cyclops
The second time he was specifically told to do something was him or his family/kingdom...
When I first heard Not Sorry For Loving You in the livestream first thought was "OH NO Mortius won't like this at all!"
I think the point of that song is both brilliant and very subtle: it lays meaning for the whole Vengeance saga as the piece between the "deus ex machina" saga and the "resolution" saga II.
Not going to spoil the fun with details, but it serves both the purpose to highlight the love that Penelope represents for Odysseus and, more importantly, how love and other human feelings are usually not even thinkable by gods: see Athena that learns what friendship really means and wins the God Games -> what she learned to fight for.
SEE ITS A LITTLE BIT DANGEROUS MY FRIEND‼️‼️
✨YOU’ll NEED A MINDSET CHANGE FOR THIS✨
YOU CANNOT GET AWAY WITH PLAYING SAFE FOR THIS!
YOU WANNA GET HOME!? PUT IT ALL ON THE LINE, BE DANGEROUS!
Alright, I'm in. What do I do? 🗿
@@rapane4968 FIRST STOP, UNCHARTED WATERS!
YESSS YESSS IM HERE ILL BE WAITING.. Im so excited to see your reactions to these songs >
I feel like the thing with Calypso's song is definitely like an apology that's not a real apology. But not necessarily bc she doesn’t mean it, but bc she genuinely doesn't understand where she went wrong or what she did was wrong. Im not saying that means she should be forgiven or anything but i think that context is important. Shes a goddess, they have their own rules and way of seeing and doing things that differs so much from mortals. Second, she was left alone on an island for 100 years. No communication with others, no cues on societal norms of that time. Like she doesn't have a shit ton to go on and any example she had were from other gods, who if we're honest, aren't the best role models (cue Zeus, Poseidon, even some of the other Gods who don't care much for mortals and their qualms like Apollo only really caring about the sirens). Given that she just kind of did what she did. But like i said, i obv don't think she was right, and she doesnt deserve to be forgiven for ignorance, but at the same point i can't help but feel pity for her. Like what a sad creature she truly is and likely will be for years to come.
She is very much frustrated, and she's not happy with the lot she has been given, but she does say that she is wrong for certain things, and that she is sorry for certain things.
Why don't you see that as a real apology?
@@ThatsMrSomeGuyToYou i mean it's like an apology without fully being one. Yes she's like I'm wrong for pushing you. And like that is where it's like, OK yeah you get it, what you did was wrong. But then turning around and saying that if you hate me, I'm sorry my love is too much for you? Like your basically saying that, I'm sorry you just can't handle all the love I have for you and that's your problem. That part just feels so manipulative. Like feel bad for me, also it's not really my fault I love you, you just don't know how to handle it. Like who'd take that part as an apology?
Thats why I do feel like she apologized but not really. Like you realize these things were wrong, but the phrasing of 'if' also takes away all the accountability on her end. Like she doesn't even know if those were really the issues but if it was, my bad. An apology can't be real unless you understand what you're apologizing for.
@@ThatsMrSomeGuyToYou"im sorry my love is too much for you" more like "im sorry you didnt like when i forced you into bed"
@@shalomproduction6367 Okay, first of all, we don't know if she forced him into bed. That kind of thing has not been included in the musical, and the musical is not a direct documentary of The Odyssey. Liberties have been taken with characters and story lines, so you can't just assume that things happened as it did in the original story.
Secondly, she has already said that she was wrong, if she pushed him, came on too strong, or ambushed him. She has made it a separate and implicit point that she was wrong in being that way.
But yeah, she kind of doubles down on that point in also saying sorry for it.
...
But did you have some kind of point?
Did you feel like you were countering something I had mentioned earlier?
@MrSlothJunior yes we do know and just because you dont realise it doesnt make it untrue
Considering Hermes is technically Odysseus' great-grandfather, their resemblance is a nice touch!
I think the point is like with most of the conflicts in EPIC. everyone is someone’s victim. Everyone is someone’s monster.
I’m also kinda lost on not sorry for loving you but I think the point is to show a little more depth to Calypso’s character, she’s a manipulative and horrible person but the song shows she’s still a person and I think the why doesn’t excuse her actions but it informs them and makes them a little more understandable
with this song, i don't think she was ever being manipulative (at least intentionally), she was more so really immature. she's functionally a child in the body of an adult, and having those desires without having any indication of right decisions vs the wrong ones is bound to lead to some bad things happening.
21:54 - Well I imagine he didn't tell him... because she is going to tell him herself...
Oh my gods I just realized something- spoiler warning for those who haven’t watched the stream animation for get in the water!!
“When strangers lurk around the isle, when danger greets you with a smile” COULD BE REFERRING TO POSEIDON!! Poseidon has been waiting on Ithaca’s shores for years, AND HE’S DRAWN TO BE SMILING WHEN ODYSSEUS FINALLY ARRIVES
I always thought it was Charybdis because it’s just a giant mouth 😭.
"Stop making this man choose things, he never makes the right one" is so real though 😂😂😂
When I saw your reaction to “love in paradise”, I knew you would DESPISE this song’s lyrics (because the songs a bop, lets be honest!)
from what I understood of the song, “Not Sorry for Loving You” when Odysseus says, “I love you but not in the way you want me to” I took that to mean that he was manipulating her as in the next scene his face was dead calm while right before that he had a lot of emotion in his face
Dangerous is honestly my favorite song of all time
The silence was LOUD
Nah don’t worry, you’re me when it comes to Not Sorry For Loving You. HOWEVER there is a great animatic of it that follows a more sad theme for it by MauvetheFae that I highly recommend watching!
Just got done watching it and man you are right he should definitely watch it
Yes! MaevetheFae’s animatic is sooo good!!
Yes! That animatic is so good!
The way I'm understanding it, Hermes is laughing at Ody saying "Then Who?" because Whoo = Owl = Athena? Like, Ody is answering his own question and doesn't realize it, but Hermes does. Don't forget all of the Who and What interjections in earlier sagas. In particular the angry owl-like "WHOOO" that Ody asks to Tiresias in "No Longer You". Jorge likes to sprinkle in the owl easter eggs in reference to Athena.
Waaaaiiiitinnng. WAAAAIIIITINNNG. Mortius when the premiere drops I‘ll be waaaiiitinng. Even if I have to stay up all night I‘ll be waaaiitinng
I will be checking out your interview when it comes out. I always enjoy Peter’s hospitality in his interviews, glad we finally got to see a collab!
I will always say and die saying it to my descendants, Calypso's song is the same as a youtuber's apology "Oh, I hurt you so much mentally, you almost try to find out if you can fly off a cliff but I also suffered a lot, the blame for this also falls on you **Plays the ukulele**"
Plays the hand pan* FTFY xD
@TearsOfLa I don't know if you fixed the joke because in the youtuber's apologies they always play the Ukulele, that's why I said that she started playing it... But thanks I guess
@ValentinaB2001 in this case, Calypsos instrument is the steel drum/hand pan thing, so it would be her youtuber apology instrument, and it is equally pretentious. Also the ftfy was a joke too
@TearsOfLa Now that you mention it, it would be funny to see a youtuber apology with a steel drum... And with someone who really knows how to play their instrument instead of just doing the E-B-A-D step that they almost always do.
LETS GOOO TRAUMA SAGA IN TRAUMA: THE MUSICAL!!
I'm really thankful for your commentary of I'm not Sorry for Loving You because I felt the same. And it seemed like everyone else was feeling bad for her and missing the signs of manipulation and narcissim, and as someone who's been in an abusive relationship who made very similar comments as Calyspo did, this song was extremely triggering and it was hard to see everyone just fall in love with it. I'm not saying the music and vocals aren't incredible because they are, but it's hard for me to listen to. Anyways, thanks as always for your honest reactions!
Same, i've seen so many reactions bashing Ody for being to cruel???
While I thankfully never had an abusive relationship,I was just feeling so icky at sorry for not loving you that I simply did not put it in my personnal epic playlist. I have no gripes against Calypso's vo,she's great,and the visuals were really nice,but I cannot put away the very VERY icky feeling of this song basically trying to excuse her actions. I don't care if she was alone,I care about the fact that she emotionnally manipulated this man for 7 YEARS.
I hope you are doing well,and healing from this awful,awful experience,I cannot fathom how badly this have been to you
@@ryomahoshi4529 thank you. Thankfully it’s been 8 years and I’ve had lots of therapy. But doesn’t stop songs like this from bringing back the memories. Definitely icky!
@@maddibrook7 that's great that you got therapy for it,and I'm glad you've been away from this situation for almost a decade now. But yeah,icky song even if the intentions weren't for it to be icky
SOME ARE BASHING ODY??? WTF@@mayra-w7
Hi! I found your reaction yesterday and i usually dont comment much on videos but just to say I loved this a lot. And i was so so glad to finally find someone who was really uncomfortable with Calypso's song as well. I loved how respectful you stayed (because Wangui is an amazing singer) while also expressing your opinion. The slipper was such a moooooood. Im going to try to watch more of your reactions because of this video! Keep up the good work, man!
Thank you Mortis.. your opinion of the conflicted emotions towards "I'm Not Sorry For Loving You" helped me not feel alone with my own emotions towards the song.
He knows just how to get the anticipation up.
fun fact: those were not harpies but sirens !! in the mythos sirens were described to be bird-women
I’ve been WAITING so long for this and Casper’s reaction-
16:20 gods, storywriter, homer.
Bro broke the 5th wall when he name dropped homer😂
I think, when talking about Not Sorry For Loving You, it's important to realize that there is a MASSIVE difference between the lines "I am sorry my love's too much for you" and the line "I am sorry, my love's too much for you." The first is manipulation while the second sounds more genuine and an acknowledgement of their differences. And despite the lack of a comma on the livestream, I'm not sure which one Jorge intended, because the grammar and spelling on the livestream lyrics hasn't exactly been perfect in the past. (Cut to Warrior of the Mind when the lyrics had "Yound Odysseus").
Yeah I know that some people have already covered it but I'll reiterate for the sake of consistency! Aeolus didn't really intend to trick and mess with Ody. "It was meant to stop you by design, because no mortal can pass Poseidon's storm" infers that Poseidon created the storm!
in all fairness SHE didnt trap him there, nor was SHE holding him. she is also trapped there. he ONLY ended up on that island because ZEUS willed it so because its HIS CURSE so if people want to be mad they can be mad at him. as far as epic goes she was clingy and thats it. there was no SA or attempted SA. she never forced herself on him. this story is independant of the original.
She disregarded his feelings and used the “Im a goddess what can you do about it?” card in a previous song, even if she didnt physically force ody into anything she sure did force him to be in a “relationship” with her. The song still feels gross.
@Astrophel24 ah.... no. She used the Goddess line to inform him he couldn't kill her, and it should be mentioned if she really wanted him in a creepy way she has mind controlling powers. But she never uses them...
@@kilroy898 She did pull that card after he threatened her life yeah.
I googled her story, cause I was honestly curious, and she was forced to provide the items for odysessus' boat as well as the wind to sail him to another island for supplies... Then after he left she ended herself which i think is really sad 😢 the story ends so sad for her and him cuz during the days she cries for him to love her and at night they spend the night so it mustve been really confusing for the both of them
I was looking forward to seeing their reaction to the "'Cause I had one goal in mind" * silence* bit SO MUCH and they did NOT disappoint
Morgan Clay’s Get in the Water is what got me onto EPIC, and I’ve been addicted ever since. 😝
Calypso’s song is a complete classic narcissist song. We can empathise for the situation that put her there, but certainly not sympathise for what she did to Ody. That was inexcusable. I think him telling her he loves her is a combination of a little Stockholm syndrome, and also the fact he says it directly after she sings “for once i wish you would lie to me…” so he does.
Dangerous is such a bop. I love Ody fighting off all the different things that pop up, meanwhile Hermes is just bopping and twerking along. 😅
Oh and favourite winion is clearly Jorge’s sister. 👑
What’s crazy is that the beginning of Dangerous sounds kinda like Casper’s reprise of Full Speed Ahead
She did give him shelter and food for 7+ years so I think he just means he loves her for all that she’s done for him, like platonically.
She kept him prisoner. A gilded cage is still a cage. Stockholm syndrome caused by being cared for and loved by someone who keeps you locked up is still stockholm syndrome 🤷
@@Narcissus584Stockholm Syndrome was made up by the guy who “discovered” it. It’s not a real syndrome, the guy just couldn’t accept that captives could organically care for their captors
@@Narcissus584to be fair she absolutely couldn’t let him go EVEN if she wanted to, that’s why Hermes was needed to take him away.
@@Narcissus584there is literally nothing to suggest Stockholm syndrome is compelling him here. He would want to STAY on the island if he had Stockholm syndrome. Come on people
@@Narcissus584 Those aren't mutually exclusive, yes objectively he was trapped there but at the same time he was in such a vulnerable state that i can totally see him being grateful to her for keeping him alive despite everything. I think Ody's "i love you" is him being conflicted at this person who didn't have bad intentions but still hurt him a lot, overstepped boundaries and kept him prisoner for years. He can't hate her but he could never love her either
man calypso's signature instrument really should've been the ukulele with that apology
The difference between your and Caspers reaction to Not Sorry For Loving You is really funny to me, because it's the exact same reactions me and my friend had
I love that little bit where it goes "wash it away like the blood your hands have *known* I *know* if you dance with fate; then I *know* I *know* you'll enhance your state"
I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS ALL MY LIFE!!!!!!!
Thank you Mortius, of all the reactors you are are the only one who i've seen have such a visceral reaction as I did the the silence at 14:29 in dangerous
I love how vibrant you are! I'm so glad you're finally reacting to this :D
Not Mortius getting ready for the chancla x2 combo XD
Mason’s work on this video is beautiful, too! You’re both amazing people
I don't get the response to Not Sorry For Loving You. Does anyone really think Jorge was making a case for kidnapping? The song was clearly about explaining where she was coming from and why she acts the way she acts. You can say you feel bad for someone suffering in solitary confinement without going on to say that Odysseus should stay. Everyone keeps "but that doesn't excuse her" like excusing her was on the table.
Waiting longer than Odysseus's mom for the vengeance saga reaction
THIS IS GOING TO BE SO ✨ dangerous ✨ ~