6 ARC was designed to make a better AR15 (M4) without the size and weight of an AR10 in 308. This video does a great job of showing just that. Smaller, lighter weapon, great ammo ballistics vs the bigger and heavier 308. Thank you for the video... hopefully one day the 6 ARC becomes more popular.
I like when you show us accuracy and velocity before the shooting, so we know exactly what we're looking at and have an idea how to compare the two rilfes together.
Between 6.5CM and .308 out to 1k, I always prefer and choose .308. Something about the retained energy downrange and sound of the steel vs the tiny and light 6.5mm bullets.
I kind of prefer the equipment breakdown upfront. I liked the logical progression/organization of information on your channel. Great job as always. Maybe just hadd links to timecode for people who want to skip to the shooting.
Awesome feedback, appreciate your thoughts. I tend to agree with you, but wanted to try something different to see how it’s accepted. My next video I’ve got on deck is a return to my norm so hope you’ll stay tuned!
I love this channel and this series. You do a phenomenal job comparing and giving feedback. I'd love to see 6mm ARC vs 6.5 Creedmoor (gas gun) added to the series!
6mm Creedmor would be a better video considering it's the same bullet going 400+ FPS faster . 6ARC has 0.530 G1 BC. 6.5CM has 0.697 BC . That's a much a freaking difference and 6.5CM would blow 6ARC out of the water .
For many of us old timers, the 6mm vs .30 caliber debate has been hashed out over the years with .243 Win and 6mm Rem vs. .308 Win and 30-06 as the competitors. Accuracy and drop over distance was always similar but for hunting, terminal performance always went to the .30 caliber because of the heavier projectile and energy delivered. Being able to put rounds on target is one thing but putting an animal down quickly made most of us stay with the .30 caliber cartridges for hunting.
Trust me…. You won’t regret it. Prior to shooting one I thought 6arc was all hype…. Now that I’ve got several hundred rounds down range I’m a huge fan. My favorite caliber to shoot 1000 yds and in without question!
I love 6ARC. I have a 12” mid length gas barrel that is a legit tack driver! The biggest thing about 6arc is reloading I think the round has a ton of potential not only for heavy stuff but also higher speed lighter weight projectiles
Awesome video! Love to see more 6ARC content out there. I reload 6 ARC for my bolt gun. I truly believe it is the most efficient way to get to 1000 yards and beyond. With added pressure and longer barrel length, I am able to push the 105gr bullets to 2800fps with CFE223/LVR and around 2680 with a temp stable powder like varget.
I think of that every time people talk about 6 ARC IN a gas gun. It’s capable to be used as such, but really shines in a bolt gun. What you have is probably every bit as effective of a hunting rifle as .243 Winchester, better at extreme distances.
That 6 ARC is everything and more than what the Valkyrie was hyped as. Impressive from that size barrel. I can see my Valkyrie barrel becoming a paper weight in favor of the ARC. Looking fwd to a 6.5 Grendel comparison.
pretty easy, 6.5 packs more a punch under 500, ARC will be a much better target round at range out to about 1250 yards or so before transonic depending on what your initial velocity is
My goal on the channel is to not only talk about a concept but also be able to show that concept in action. I hope that’s something that continues to make my channel unique and entertaining. Thanks for watching! Do me a solid and share my content with your buddies when you get the chance!
Love the change in presentation, having a quick speed drop run was sweet, really make me want to learn it, it also breaks up the video a little, love your videos already, and will enjoy any changes you decide to make 👌
Oh man speed drop is easy! I’ve actually got an older video out there showing how to determine the speed drop number of your rifle if you haven’t seen that yet. Thanks for the feedback on the video format…. I might mix things up from time to time just to keep the content fresh and appealing to viewers.
Just figured it out, my number is 1.7, works from 200 to 500 yards, not great, but it's a short rifle, thank u again for demonstrating how well it works on certain rigs
Ran my 16” 6ARC 108gr vs a buddy’s 24” .308 168gr, both factory Hornady ammo. Slight edge in drop & wind went to the 6ARC, very comparable performance. Great video bub
Congrats on getting an ammo sponsor! I’ll definitely check out Ally. Great shooting too. I love the 6 ARC and have a 22 inch Rainer barrel. It’s crazy to me that a barrel as short as 14 inches can get performance right below a long barreled 308!
"Ally" is often a Leftist signifier -- see Ally Bank for their Socialism aligned policies as an example. Being how this ammo company is from WA, I'd be skeptical, too. At least research.
Cool vid. This kind of confirms everything I've been hearing about 6ARC. Really seems good for certain special situations, but for the most part, if you already have a good .308, it's not worth switching.
this has quickly become my favorite channel on youtube! Thank you for putting my current favorite cartridge out there in the world so people get to know it and see why it's a big deal
Awesome to hear you’re enjoying the content! Lots of fresh content in the works so hope you’ll stay tuned and share with your buddies! Man more folks adopting 6arc is a win for everyone…. Hopefully more adoption means better ammo availability which will reduce prices.
Shooter is really good here. 6 ARC and 308 are both great but this shooter makes it look easy. Shooting an AR for over 1000 yds in moderate wind is tough.
I like both out of the gate and the old way. But prefer the old way. Another great video keep ‘em coming 👍 Glad to see the .308 still in there. Plenty of well priced ammo if one doesn’t reload
Great comparison series! You can tell BC differences by experience from the wind hold adjustments you did! 6ARC couldn't ring it as well at distance but solid hits! Awesome job!
Yeah, and when you use terms like DMR, you're talking fighting rifle, not paper puncher. At a 1000 yds, the 6 ARC barely moved the target when it hit, whereas the 308 moved it a lot more. I'd like to see one of Paul Harrell's meat targets out at each range to see what the effect it.
@@carpingnyland8518to its credit, at 1000 yards out of a 14.5 inch barrel, 6mm ARC still has the same energy as a 9mm handgun at the muzzle That’s pretty impressive for a gun that you could use as both a DMR and a room clearing weapon
@@Courtesyflush52while taking your word for it on energy, I would argue that the 9mm would still do a great deal more damage at point blank range than the 6 arc at 1000 yards. My understanding is that depending on bullet design and several other factors the 6 arc doesn't have enough energy past 500 yards or so to expand or create a large wound cavity. It simply punches small holes at that point.
@@carpingnyland8518 Several points. First off, we all know rifles and pistols act differently. If you shoot someone in the same place with a rifle versus a pistol at close range, the rifle will often drop someone whereas a pistol will not. The primary reason for that is velocity. Not energy on target. Energy on target only becomes a significant factor once you exceed about 2000 FPS, according to the FBI's research on wound characteristics. Below that point, only penetration and to a very insignificant degree expansion or tumbling matter. I make this point because both .308 and 6 ARC will cross the 2000 FPS threshold at about the same distance, that being only 300-400 yards. At 1000 yards, you're talking pistol caliber ballistics either way. No matter how much energy is being delivered, it won't exceed the elasticity of tissue. So it'll just be the wound track itself doing damage. Energy will be moot as long as it can achieve sufficient penetration and especially expand or tumble. As well, that's not even considering the fact that for a DMR, you really and truly don't need to drop someone in one shot. The purpose of a fighting rifle is to eliminate threats. Not necessarily kill. As long as the threat is out of the fight, you've succeeded. I don't know about you, but I don't think I could effectively return fire at 1000 after having been shot, regardless of what I've been shot by. Within 300 yards, sure, a combatant could get lucky and land a wild shot even after having been shot. Both are capable within 300. Past that, the chances of a wounded enemy both being willing to and capable of continuing fighting are minimal. IMO, 6 ARC does what it aims to.
Man, Zach, you are lighting a fire in me to buy a 6 ARC barrel, BCG and mags for one of my ARs. Looks like a super fun cartridge for some mid to long range steel clanging!
@@MountainsMulletsMerica , ok, darn it. I did it. I have a Ballistic Advantage barrel coming. Along with dies, brass and projectiles. You are an expensive dude to have around, Zach. Lol. You should reach out to Ballistic Advantage to try out some of their stuff. They are super accurate and my favorite AR-15 / AR-10 brand.
I been testin the 110v max and varmageddons and there stackin in .5” sized holes and absolutely devastating on jugs…hit a pill bottle at 250…love your hard work brother. Keep it up…matt
Really excited that ally munitions stepped up to support the channel. You’ll be seeing more of their contributions in future content for sure. Thanks for taking the time to watch!
Your wind and miss calls are some of the best I have seen. I would love to see a video of you going over your thoughts/process of seeing your misses, making the correct follow ups and estimating your wind.
I freggin' love this channel so much! I also follow the Texas Predator Hunting podcast with the Ally munitions guys and am glad to see they stepped up and supported the best channel on TH-cam.
Thank you! Really appreciate the support and super cool to hear you’re also already an ally munitions fan! The partnership with ally is going to allow me to keep pumping out exciting new content so I hope you’ll stay tuned to check it out.
I recently put together a 6 ARC after watching one of your earlier videos. I ended up going with the Faxon 20" match barrel. This thing is an absolute shooter and so much more enjoyable to shoot, in my opinion, than .308. I have a Superlative Arms piston kit coming for the 6 ARC to try and get the gas right. She is a little gassy when suppressed at this point. I have always used restrictive AGB's in the past and wanted to experiment a little. Also, the differences between the AR-10 and AR-15 platforms that you typically have to deal with to go to .308 just make the 6 ARC a better option for me. Also, do a little digging on the interwebs and you can get that 6 arc Hornady Match 108's for about $23-$25 a box (with shipping)!
Really cool to hear you’re enjoying the content and happy with your jump into 6arc! Prior to actually shooting 6arc I was thinking it was all hype…. After putting several hundred rounds down range though I’m convinced it’s the real deal. Really cool how easy it is to shoot and how effective it can be at distance. Like you say, with a little research you can find 6arc ammo for very reasonable prices. Thanks for watching!
I think part of the over gassing issues are because Faxon uses 5.56 logic for their gas tube lengths. As an example, 16” ARC barrels need a rifle length tube whereas Faxon makes theirs with a midlength
I really like the 6mm ARC, I built 2 of them so far, both hace the same Spikes Tactical Ambidextrous lowers, & 6.5 arms Monster BCG's, both have Larue tactical MBT 2 stage triggers, one has a Wilson Combat Super Sniper 18" barrel & the other has a 22" Saturn barrel, both are solid 3/4 moa rifles with factory ammo. I think the 18-20 barrel lenth is perfect for the arc.
Really cool to hear you’re valuing the content and I really appreciate the support! Lots of fresh content coming so hope you’ll stay tuned to check it out. Don’t forget to share with your buddies too!
Great shooting man. I think the 6 ARC would do the best at medium range with much faster follow up shots vs. .308. That 20 inch .308 was dead nuts on, but that’s a lot of rifle to try and maneuver. Great video format too.
Both are excellent set ups. Good comparison. I considered the same thing. My conclusion was a Ruger SFAR 16". Only a few hundred rounds so so far. Accuracy is very impressive. Good content. Subscribed.
Very impressive performance for such a short barrel. I have one with a 24" .936" barrel (Purpose built PRS rifle) and it's a very capable platform. I run 108gr eld-m's with 26.8 grs of Varget. Not a fast round (2570 fps avg) but it's consistent. Friend of mine runs a .308 bolt gun and we can share wind calls. Elevation is pretty close as well. Switching to bolt gun next season and will be running a 6 dasher but I'm having a training rifle built this winter and it will be a 6 ARC. I'm a firm believer in this cartridge.
Action out of the gate = great. Cut in half though. Looks like that Faxon barrel has gotten better since your first video! Nice! You said about everything I was thinking between the two. Being a beginner long-range shooter, for me the lesser recoil allowing me to see the target hits better will help more. The bigger splash of the .308 would also be helpful for spotting misses since i will miss a LOT more than you, but on the east side of the US I'm not really getting that kind of backdrop anyway. Really amazed at what that sort barrel will do. Thanks for highlighting this. (But my other comment still stands, too) I need to seek .308 ammo deals more. I've been seeing almost identical cost but the cheaper rifle components would probably make up the difference over the first 1000 rounds.
You may be the only channel running a shorter barreled (under 16 inches) 6 ARC, and I love it. The performance out of this round is incredible, definitely the proper cartridge for building the lightest, smallest "DMR" that can perform out to 1,000m.
Man I love short barrels for a couple of reasons..... they are super handy (especially suppressed) and most of the internet seems to think they aren't capable of effectively shooting to any kind of distance. Go to a caliber like 6arc and a shorter barrel rig really is the ideal shooter for 1000yds and in. Stay tuned though.... I've also got an 18" upper and I'm thinking I'm going to do a side by side barrel length compare with this 14.5" upper to see what the difference actually looks like down range!
awesome video. 6arc seems like it's going to be awesome. hopefully it will become popular enough to be affordable in regards to ammo prices. also curious about how it treats the bolt and barrel over time.
I have a 16.5” 6.5cm outlier barrel that I’m going to drop into my pristine bolt gun action. Not as short as 14.5” but I think it’ll give us an idea of directionally how a short 6arc compares to a short 6.5cm. I have no clue what to expect out of a short 6.5cm so I’m really excited to get this rig up and running.
Same, I built a custom 14.5 6.5 creed and it's by far my favorite AR platform rifle. Even with the short barrel, beats a 24" 308 in everything except for impact energy at the closer distances.
The 308 definitely punched that steel a lot harder! I think 6 ARC really shines when you compare it to 5.56 though. By the way, what are the M-Lok weights that you have on the SR25?
Agree on how much harder 308 hit the steel, it was a very noticeable difference from the shooting perspective. The weights are the “double mlok exterior weights” from Snyder precision.
It should hit harder than 6arc. It’s fired from a much larger case with larger powder capacity, and it’s a larger projectile than 6arc. An AR-15 round by default cannot and will not ever hit harder than a projectile from the larger AR10 platform
@@MountainsMulletsMerica Absolutely man! Your channel is one of my new favorites. Still saving for Glass on my 18" 6mm ARC... Hoping to smack some predators and deer with it this winter!
I'd still take 14.5 6ARC over the 308 just because of weight alone . Kitted out 6ARC maybe 10 pounds compared to 13 or 14 pounds of the 308 . For 6ARC is better as DMR 600Y and in . Also its AR15 platform
That's awesome you've paired up with Ally Munitions. The Texas Predator Hunting Podcast (Ally 's podcast with Wade and Fitzy) is my favorite channel. You Garand Thumb and Administrative Results are my close 2nds. Their ammo is amazing.
For just learning how to shoot from a tripod that was a solid performance. Hardest part is slowing down that wobble and being able to call shots accurately.
Of most significance to me was how much HARDER the 308 hit those targets. As far as trajectory I will ALWAYS prefer less holdover to more holdover. IIRC you were at 13 MIL with the ARC and only 11 with the 308. Wind was definitely tricky on that day.
@@Courtesyflush52 Something to remember as well is that the gun isn't the only thing that's lighter, the ammo is significantly lighter too. If we're considering a combat loadout, 6 ARC will be far more than 2 lbs lighter.
Loving seeing the 6 ARC showing its mettle against the big kids. If you're looking for a new toy to compare, I'd like to see a 6mm creedmoor go head to head with the 6 arc, and 6.5 creedmoor. My brain is telling me to build 6arc AR, and a 6 CM bolt/chassis rifle. On the order of video, i do like a short summary of the video, and start shooting, then cover the nitty gritties later. Big fan of your extreme attention to detail and way of presenting it. I also like the ol' "here's what it does at 100 yards" before you stretch its legs. Helps us short rangers have an idea what we're looking at. Keep up the awesome work!
I'd love to see you build a 20" 6ARC and hang 2 ham hocks out at 800 yards then let the .308 and 6ARC have at them.... I think thats when you ll see the true advantage of the. 308.... At those ranges, I definitely prefer power to handiness...
I see why you chose the 14.5 vs 20" 308, sure drops are similar. If we are talking just getting hits on target, and a hit is a kill, then the lighter easier to move ARC is a clear winner. Also the ARC carries energy much more efficiently at range, so I would have liked to see the power comparison between the 14.5 arc and a 14.5" 308, or 20" for both. Either way, great videos, keep it up.
They have a similar transonic velocity (1100 yards) so you can compare their energy pretty easily At the 1000 yards he was shooting, the 6ARC will have 400ft-lbs of energy while the .308 will have more like 650ft-lbs. Both are certainly enough to take someone out of the fight
Fantastic content man!! Love your channel and appreciate the amount of work that goes into making great content. I just picked up a centurion arms 18" 6mm ARC complete upper. I have founf 108gr ELdlD and 103 gr ELDX to be typically 1.5MOA and have heard lots of anecdotal evidence that the hornady 105gr BTHP is more accurate out of lots od gas guns. Did you fond same on your 14.5.....i recognize that you took 108gr ELD out pretty far and made hits!
I like the new format. I have a 16" 6MM ARC and it's great in close and out far. I have loaded for a 7.65 x 51 and 308 in bolt actions. I owned a M1A1 but got rid of it.
Real good explanation and expert shooting as always. Would be fun to see a video with revolver cartridge lever actions out to 350 yds or further. I simply love the small rifles for what they are.
Thanks for another great video. Foundational to my choices of caliber, begins with what I am attempting to accomplish. The points that you made in the video are helpful for that analysis.
I have a buddy who runs a 24” 6mm ARC gun for matches and at the longer barrel lengths it actually starts to have less drop than .308 at 1000 yards, because it’s more efficient in its velocity retention
Huge 9holes fan here! For sure the extra velocity provided by a longer 6arc barrel would reduce wind drift and would reduce the drop required to hit those long distance targets. If you’re after a pure precision rifle and are willing to sacrifice maneuverability and handiness of the package a longer barrel will always offer better performance.
Another possible advantage of the 6 ARC over the .308 is that the .308 puts more wear and tear on the gun parts. So depending on what gun manufacture you go with, the .308 might start have components fail sooner than a 6 ARC. I believe T-Rex arms put an aero precisions .308 rifle through a 5000 round test which it didn't even finish because it had firing pin failures. They stopped the test around 3000 rounds due to these parts breaking. 6 ARC has less recoil and energy so I would theorize it would hopefully last longer in such a test.
That's more likely an aero precision issue than a .308 one. Their BCGs are notorious for premature failure and out-of-spec issues. I've seen similar reports of aero 5.56 bolt/carrier failures at 3k rounds. They make okay receivers but I would never use one of their BCGs or its components.
308 is proven in the AR-10 platform. The AR-10 is purpose built to handle 308. The 6 arc has been shoehorned into the AR-15. It is known to break bolts with any pressure, hence the 52ksi limit on 6 arc. All you learned from the TREX video is don’t buy an aero AR-10
@@K-bob_45 Obviously the manufacture of the rifle could be the issue and it is a sample size of one.... Hence the reason I said the words "possible" and I was "theorizing". My statement is just thought that needs way more testing.
@@Milkywaymike the way I look at it the AR-10 was engineered for 308. The AR-15 engineered for 5.56. The 6.8 spc and 220 Russian derivatives in the AR-15 make me think of back when MFG’s crammed 40 S&W into 9mm guns. Same with these new “small frame” 308’s
Man I should pin this comment to the top! Is 6arc the right caliber for a charging bear…. No but it is a great target caliber which is exactly what I was demonstrating in this video!
Man I agree with @mylittlemonsters…. 6arc is the ticket if you’re looking to shoot long range out of a small frame AR. Very capable to 1000yds and very easy to shoot accurately. The drawback at the moment is ammo price and availability given it’s primarily only Hornady creating factory ammo. I’m hoping this will improve though as the caliber gains adoption. 556 is another great choice if you’re only shooting out to say 600ish yds.
I would love if you wrote this up on a blog. If you could give charts, speeds, etc. Including supressor etc I'm so down. I'm running a 18" unsupressed 6mm arc and a 20" 308. Looking at buying a can but yeah need to get it all down. But this just replicates what i see at the range and comps.
Great channel and you're great in front of a camera. The land you're shooting on is amazing and enviable. Is it farmland and how do you shoot when crops are growing? Do you only shoot and make videos after the harvest? Not trying to be in your business, just genuinely curious. Here in Texas there is no public land and anything over an acre is prohibitively expensive, so have to pay thousands a year for a membership to get marginal long range facilities. Plus our weather is terrible. What state are you in?
In what way? For me I thought the 6arc was way overhyped until I actually started shooting it. After running side by side vs 556 and 308 I’m finding the caliber is living up to the hype!
Mullet, your videos are so bright compared to all other youtube content. Any way to dial it down a little? I dont think its your exposure, it just seems like the brightness is turned up. Others please like this message if you agree. Not trying to complain, only trying to help. Thanks for the good content.
Interesting…. What platform are you watching on? I wonder if it’s the HDR filming of the iPhone video doing it. When I check on my iPhone and tv things seem fine but curious what others are seeing or what I can do to improve the image.
@@MountainsMulletsMerica Im using the TH-cam app on my iPad. The quality seems really good, its just very bright compared to anything else I watch on TH-cam. I have this issue with all your videos. I usually watch gun videos to lull me to sleep, so it may be more apparent in a dark setting. Anyhow, if the issue is isolated to only me then dont change a thing. I thought others may be having a similar issue and wanted to bring it to your attention. Again, thanks for the content man!
We like to do these comparisons, and they're fun, for sure. 308 did its thing, but let's not forget, this was 14.5 vs. 20 inches of barrel. That's a significant factor when comparing usage. We're all mostly bench shooting anyway, so what do we really care beyond recoil management lol
I don’t know about the other caliber, I’ve shot 308 for 40 years now so I’ll just stay with what I know. I’m playing around with.223 here lately, having a blast. I only have access to 600 yards to shoot
6 ARC was designed to make a better AR15 (M4) without the size and weight of an AR10 in 308. This video does a great job of showing just that. Smaller, lighter weapon, great ammo ballistics vs the bigger and heavier 308. Thank you for the video... hopefully one day the 6 ARC becomes more popular.
Agreed!!
Great cartridge. I think Hornady hit a home run
@@WagaBags Agreed!
One of the best if not the best gun channel - no "operator" bullshit and uneducated opinions instead allot of facts abd real world samples.
I'm more impressed at how that 6ARC was grouping at 833 and at a grand. Really impressive.
I like when you show us accuracy and velocity before the shooting, so we know exactly what we're looking at and have an idea how to compare the two rilfes together.
I love how 308 continues to hold its own, even up against latest modern cartidges. What a beautiful lil pill.
Literally it does not hold its own. 20 round mags weighs more than a 26 round mag. It is an AR-10 verus an AR-15. Recoil is nearly twice as much.
@@mylesharvey6488 recoil’s a helluva drug
@@mylesharvey6488Your soy latte is served at children’s temperature.
@@TacticalBuffoonary nope it is a numbers game. When I can carry more ammo the fight is more lopsided. 308 or even 277 fury is a stupid idea.
Between 6.5CM and .308 out to 1k, I always prefer and choose .308. Something about the retained energy downrange and sound of the steel vs the tiny and light 6.5mm bullets.
I kind of prefer the equipment breakdown upfront. I liked the logical progression/organization of information on your channel. Great job as always. Maybe just hadd links to timecode for people who want to skip to the shooting.
Awesome feedback, appreciate your thoughts. I tend to agree with you, but wanted to try something different to see how it’s accepted. My next video I’ve got on deck is a return to my norm so hope you’ll stay tuned!
Agree with this!
I love this channel and this series. You do a phenomenal job comparing and giving feedback. I'd love to see 6mm ARC vs 6.5 Creedmoor (gas gun) added to the series!
6mm Creedmor would be a better video considering it's the same bullet going 400+ FPS faster .
6ARC has 0.530 G1 BC. 6.5CM has 0.697 BC . That's a much a freaking difference and 6.5CM would blow 6ARC out of the water .
@@seanwhite304I’ll take the 6mm Creedmoor and say that a 6.5 grendel comparison would make even more sense as the cartridges are the same length.
@@seanwhite304that's a lie. 6.5 creed 130gr bullet 2800 fps g7 bc 0.288. 6 ARC 108gr bullet 2750 fps g7 b 0.273. Difference is basically non-existent
@@josh2711grendel has no chance, 6 arc has more energy and less drop at every range and bullet weight
@@tedarcher9120 yeah I was referring too 147g ELDM which has G1 0.697 BC.
For many of us old timers, the 6mm vs .30 caliber debate has been hashed out over the years with .243 Win and 6mm Rem vs. .308 Win and 30-06 as the competitors. Accuracy and drop over distance was always similar but for hunting, terminal performance always went to the .30 caliber because of the heavier projectile and energy delivered. Being able to put rounds on target is one thing but putting an animal down quickly made most of us stay with the .30 caliber cartridges for hunting.
270 Win disprove that myth in 1925! Please study ballistics!
You are responsible for sending me down this 6arc rabbit trail. Buying parts to build one.
Trust me…. You won’t regret it. Prior to shooting one I thought 6arc was all hype…. Now that I’ve got several hundred rounds down range I’m a huge fan. My favorite caliber to shoot 1000 yds and in without question!
I love 6ARC. I have a 12” mid length gas barrel that is a legit tack driver!
The biggest thing about 6arc is reloading I think the round has a ton of potential not only for heavy stuff but also higher speed lighter weight projectiles
Awesome video! Love to see more 6ARC content out there. I reload 6 ARC for my bolt gun. I truly believe it is the most efficient way to get to 1000 yards and beyond. With added pressure and longer barrel length, I am able to push the 105gr bullets to 2800fps with CFE223/LVR and around 2680 with a temp stable powder like varget.
I think of that every time people talk about 6 ARC IN a gas gun. It’s capable to be used as such, but really shines in a bolt gun.
What you have is probably every bit as effective of a hunting rifle as .243 Winchester, better at extreme distances.
Man I always appreciate the time and the knowledge you provide to us on these videos…
Congrats on the sponsorship from ally! Wade is definitely a big fan of 6 ARC!
Man Wade has been awesome to work with! Really excited to be hooked up with him and Ally. The partnership is going to make my content even better!
That 6 ARC is everything and more than what the Valkyrie was hyped as. Impressive from that size barrel. I can see my Valkyrie barrel becoming a paper weight in favor of the ARC. Looking fwd to a 6.5 Grendel comparison.
pretty easy, 6.5 packs more a punch under 500, ARC will be a much better target round at range out to about 1250 yards or so before transonic depending on what your initial velocity is
Not many YT channels where dudes are pushing the limits of a platforms and their own capabilities. Great video. Keep up the great work!
My goal on the channel is to not only talk about a concept but also be able to show that concept in action. I hope that’s something that continues to make my channel unique and entertaining. Thanks for watching! Do me a solid and share my content with your buddies when you get the chance!
Love the change in presentation, having a quick speed drop run was sweet, really make me want to learn it, it also breaks up the video a little, love your videos already, and will enjoy any changes you decide to make 👌
Oh man speed drop is easy! I’ve actually got an older video out there showing how to determine the speed drop number of your rifle if you haven’t seen that yet. Thanks for the feedback on the video format…. I might mix things up from time to time just to keep the content fresh and appealing to viewers.
@@MountainsMulletsMerica I'll definitely look into it, thanks 👌
Just figured it out, my number is 1.7, works from 200 to 500 yards, not great, but it's a short rifle, thank u again for demonstrating how well it works on certain rigs
I agree I really like the speed drop intro
Ran my 16” 6ARC 108gr vs a buddy’s 24” .308 168gr, both factory Hornady ammo. Slight edge in drop & wind went to the 6ARC, very comparable performance. Great video bub
Maybe in trajectory but not even close on terminal ballistics.
Congrats on getting an ammo sponsor! I’ll definitely check out Ally. Great shooting too. I love the 6 ARC and have a 22 inch Rainer barrel. It’s crazy to me that a barrel as short as 14 inches can get performance right below a long barreled 308!
My 12” arc barrel from Rainer has comparable almost BETTER performance to my 18” .308
"Ally" is often a Leftist signifier -- see Ally Bank for their Socialism aligned policies as an example. Being how this ammo company is from WA, I'd be skeptical, too. At least research.
@@hoffpbass Sounds like you need a vacation. I’m sure you have better things to worry about than where I buy ammo.
Cool vid. This kind of confirms everything I've been hearing about 6ARC. Really seems good for certain special situations, but for the most part, if you already have a good .308, it's not worth switching.
Love the content man! Especially testing 6arc.
Glad to hear you're enjoying the videos! Lots of fresh content in the works so hope you'll stay tuned to check it out!
this has quickly become my favorite channel on youtube! Thank you for putting my current favorite cartridge out there in the world so people get to know it and see why it's a big deal
Awesome to hear you’re enjoying the content! Lots of fresh content in the works so hope you’ll stay tuned and share with your buddies! Man more folks adopting 6arc is a win for everyone…. Hopefully more adoption means better ammo availability which will reduce prices.
Shooter is really good here. 6 ARC and 308 are both great but this shooter makes it look easy. Shooting an AR for over 1000 yds in moderate wind is tough.
I like both out of the gate and the old way. But prefer the old way. Another great video keep ‘em coming 👍 Glad to see the .308 still in there. Plenty of well priced ammo if one doesn’t reload
Great comparison series! You can tell BC differences by experience from the wind hold adjustments you did! 6ARC couldn't ring it as well at distance but solid hits! Awesome job!
While it didnt hit harder, its coming out a 14 inch barrel, weighs less, and grouped better.
308 definitely carries more energy at 1000 yards, and seems to be less effected by the wind vs the 6arc. Great video!
Dead on. 6 arc being a smaller package is a pro for it.
Yeah, and when you use terms like DMR, you're talking fighting rifle, not paper puncher. At a 1000 yds, the 6 ARC barely moved the target when it hit, whereas the 308 moved it a lot more. I'd like to see one of Paul Harrell's meat targets out at each range to see what the effect it.
@@carpingnyland8518to its credit, at 1000 yards out of a 14.5 inch barrel, 6mm ARC still has the same energy as a 9mm handgun at the muzzle
That’s pretty impressive for a gun that you could use as both a DMR and a room clearing weapon
@@Courtesyflush52while taking your word for it on energy, I would argue that the 9mm would still do a great deal more damage at point blank range than the 6 arc at 1000 yards. My understanding is that depending on bullet design and several other factors the 6 arc doesn't have enough energy past 500 yards or so to expand or create a large wound cavity. It simply punches small holes at that point.
@@carpingnyland8518 Several points. First off, we all know rifles and pistols act differently. If you shoot someone in the same place with a rifle versus a pistol at close range, the rifle will often drop someone whereas a pistol will not. The primary reason for that is velocity. Not energy on target. Energy on target only becomes a significant factor once you exceed about 2000 FPS, according to the FBI's research on wound characteristics. Below that point, only penetration and to a very insignificant degree expansion or tumbling matter.
I make this point because both .308 and 6 ARC will cross the 2000 FPS threshold at about the same distance, that being only 300-400 yards. At 1000 yards, you're talking pistol caliber ballistics either way. No matter how much energy is being delivered, it won't exceed the elasticity of tissue. So it'll just be the wound track itself doing damage. Energy will be moot as long as it can achieve sufficient penetration and especially expand or tumble.
As well, that's not even considering the fact that for a DMR, you really and truly don't need to drop someone in one shot. The purpose of a fighting rifle is to eliminate threats. Not necessarily kill. As long as the threat is out of the fight, you've succeeded. I don't know about you, but I don't think I could effectively return fire at 1000 after having been shot, regardless of what I've been shot by. Within 300 yards, sure, a combatant could get lucky and land a wild shot even after having been shot. Both are capable within 300. Past that, the chances of a wounded enemy both being willing to and capable of continuing fighting are minimal.
IMO, 6 ARC does what it aims to.
Man, Zach, you are lighting a fire in me to buy a 6 ARC barrel, BCG and mags for one of my ARs. Looks like a super fun cartridge for some mid to long range steel clanging!
Oh man wait until you see the video I just filmed today. Hoping to have it launched next weekend…. Lots more 6arc content headed your way!
@@MountainsMulletsMerica , My brotha!
@@MountainsMulletsMerica , ok, darn it. I did it. I have a Ballistic Advantage barrel coming. Along with dies, brass and projectiles. You are an expensive dude to have around, Zach. Lol.
You should reach out to Ballistic Advantage to try out some of their stuff. They are super accurate and my favorite AR-15 / AR-10 brand.
I been testin the 110v max and varmageddons and there stackin in .5” sized holes and absolutely devastating on jugs…hit a pill bottle at 250…love your hard work brother. Keep it up…matt
Awesome work! My fav channel rn
Appreciate you taking the time to watch and support the channel! Lots of fresh content coming so hope you’ll stick around to check it out!
congrats on the ammo sponsor! thanks for the great content
Really excited that ally munitions stepped up to support the channel. You’ll be seeing more of their contributions in future content for sure. Thanks for taking the time to watch!
Just done a setup with 24 inch 1 in 8 twist 6 arc. Going to try and get it on paper for the first try tomorrow. All kind of excited.
Your wind and miss calls are some of the best I have seen. I would love to see a video of you going over your thoughts/process of seeing your misses, making the correct follow ups and estimating your wind.
Good video. Good comparison. I wish though that the barrel lengths would have been the same.
I freggin' love this channel so much! I also follow the Texas Predator Hunting podcast with the Ally munitions guys and am glad to see they stepped up and supported the best channel on TH-cam.
Thank you! Really appreciate the support and super cool to hear you’re also already an ally munitions fan! The partnership with ally is going to allow me to keep pumping out exciting new content so I hope you’ll stay tuned to check it out.
I recently put together a 6 ARC after watching one of your earlier videos. I ended up going with the Faxon 20" match barrel. This thing is an absolute shooter and so much more enjoyable to shoot, in my opinion, than .308. I have a Superlative Arms piston kit coming for the 6 ARC to try and get the gas right. She is a little gassy when suppressed at this point. I have always used restrictive AGB's in the past and wanted to experiment a little. Also, the differences between the AR-10 and AR-15 platforms that you typically have to deal with to go to .308 just make the 6 ARC a better option for me. Also, do a little digging on the interwebs and you can get that 6 arc Hornady Match 108's for about $23-$25 a box (with shipping)!
Really cool to hear you’re enjoying the content and happy with your jump into 6arc! Prior to actually shooting 6arc I was thinking it was all hype…. After putting several hundred rounds down range though I’m convinced it’s the real deal. Really cool how easy it is to shoot and how effective it can be at distance. Like you say, with a little research you can find 6arc ammo for very reasonable prices. Thanks for watching!
I think part of the over gassing issues are because Faxon uses 5.56 logic for their gas tube lengths.
As an example, 16” ARC barrels need a rifle length tube whereas Faxon makes theirs with a midlength
im liking that you use that scope cam so we can see what's actually going on. haven't seen a single other youtuber do that
20" barrel for 6arc definitely has better ballistics at long range than the 308. It's my new go too. Love it.
I really like the 6mm ARC, I built 2 of them so far, both hace the same Spikes Tactical Ambidextrous lowers, & 6.5 arms Monster BCG's, both have Larue tactical MBT 2 stage triggers, one has a Wilson Combat Super Sniper 18" barrel & the other has a 22" Saturn barrel, both are solid 3/4 moa rifles with factory ammo. I think the 18-20 barrel lenth is perfect for the arc.
Another great video man!
Thank you! Appreciate the continued support!
I've shot a lot of pheasants near Dayton and Pomeroy years ago. Your videos make me homesick as well as being excellent shooting vids. Thanks.
Whenever I think of a professional review, I think of you
Really cool to hear you’re valuing the content and I really appreciate the support! Lots of fresh content coming so hope you’ll stay tuned to check it out. Don’t forget to share with your buddies too!
Great shooting man. I think the 6 ARC would do the best at medium range with much faster follow up shots vs. .308. That 20 inch .308 was dead nuts on, but that’s a lot of rifle to try and maneuver.
Great video format too.
Both are excellent set ups. Good comparison. I considered the same thing. My conclusion was a Ruger SFAR 16". Only a few hundred rounds so so far. Accuracy is very impressive. Good content. Subscribed.
Very impressive performance for such a short barrel. I have one with a 24" .936" barrel (Purpose built PRS rifle) and it's a very capable platform. I run 108gr eld-m's with 26.8 grs of Varget. Not a fast round (2570 fps avg) but it's consistent. Friend of mine runs a .308 bolt gun and we can share wind calls. Elevation is pretty close as well. Switching to bolt gun next season and will be running a 6 dasher but I'm having a training rifle built this winter and it will be a 6 ARC. I'm a firm believer in this cartridge.
Your rifle/optics setups are so dope! KA and NF...that serious business right there,
Dope? What does that even mean.
Action out of the gate = great. Cut in half though.
Looks like that Faxon barrel has gotten better since your first video! Nice!
You said about everything I was thinking between the two. Being a beginner long-range shooter, for me the lesser recoil allowing me to see the target hits better will help more. The bigger splash of the .308 would also be helpful for spotting misses since i will miss a LOT more than you, but on the east side of the US I'm not really getting that kind of backdrop anyway.
Really amazed at what that sort barrel will do. Thanks for highlighting this. (But my other comment still stands, too)
I need to seek .308 ammo deals more. I've been seeing almost identical cost but the cheaper rifle components would probably make up the difference over the first 1000 rounds.
Just tested out my Odin Works 6mm ARC 21" barreled upper today. Awesome accuracy (sub 1/2 MOA, with Hornady Match). LOVE this cartridge.
I appreciate getting right to the action. This channel is great. You put the info right out there in understandable terms. Hope you keep growing!
You may be the only channel running a shorter barreled (under 16 inches) 6 ARC, and I love it. The performance out of this round is incredible, definitely the proper cartridge for building the lightest, smallest "DMR" that can perform out to 1,000m.
Man I love short barrels for a couple of reasons..... they are super handy (especially suppressed) and most of the internet seems to think they aren't capable of effectively shooting to any kind of distance. Go to a caliber like 6arc and a shorter barrel rig really is the ideal shooter for 1000yds and in. Stay tuned though.... I've also got an 18" upper and I'm thinking I'm going to do a side by side barrel length compare with this 14.5" upper to see what the difference actually looks like down range!
awesome video. 6arc seems like it's going to be awesome. hopefully it will become popular enough to be affordable in regards to ammo prices. also curious about how it treats the bolt and barrel over time.
Mad I really like to see a 14.5 6.5 Creedmoor set up at distance. I know D Wilson has an LMT in 14.5 but I haven’t seen much in a review.
I have a 16.5” 6.5cm outlier barrel that I’m going to drop into my pristine bolt gun action. Not as short as 14.5” but I think it’ll give us an idea of directionally how a short 6arc compares to a short 6.5cm. I have no clue what to expect out of a short 6.5cm so I’m really excited to get this rig up and running.
Same, I built a custom 14.5 6.5 creed and it's by far my favorite AR platform rifle. Even with the short barrel, beats a 24" 308 in everything except for impact energy at the closer distances.
The 308 definitely punched that steel a lot harder! I think 6 ARC really shines when you compare it to 5.56 though. By the way, what are the M-Lok weights that you have on the SR25?
Agree on how much harder 308 hit the steel, it was a very noticeable difference from the shooting perspective. The weights are the “double mlok exterior weights” from Snyder precision.
It should hit harder than 6arc. It’s fired from a much larger case with larger powder capacity, and it’s a larger projectile than 6arc. An AR-15 round by default cannot and will not ever hit harder than a projectile from the larger AR10 platform
Love, love, love what you are doing. Super impressive content, shooting, and presentation.
Mountains mullet merica, ultimate reloader, whoteewho, and backfire colab video would be awesome. Great videos man, keep em coming!
That's going to be some good soil here soon! I've got family in Pullman, WA and looks exactly like this.
Awesome video man!!
Appreciate you taking the time to watch! Lots of new content in the works so hope you’ll stay tuned to check it out!
@@MountainsMulletsMerica Absolutely man! Your channel is one of my new favorites. Still saving for Glass on my 18" 6mm ARC... Hoping to smack some predators and deer with it this winter!
I'd still take 14.5 6ARC over the 308 just because of weight alone . Kitted out 6ARC maybe 10 pounds compared to 13 or 14 pounds of the 308 .
For 6ARC is better as DMR 600Y and in . Also its AR15 platform
Thank you for taking the time to share your experience much appreciated
You shoot the exact same calibers as I do. I love your thorough presentation, man! Keep sending it!
Impressive shooting, performance and analysis.
Especially out of that 14.5" barrel!
Great job.
Great video
Thank you! Appreciate you taking the time to watch!
Awesome as always. Appreciate it
That's awesome you've paired up with Ally Munitions. The Texas Predator Hunting Podcast (Ally 's podcast with Wade and Fitzy) is my favorite channel. You Garand Thumb and Administrative Results are my close 2nds. Their ammo is amazing.
For just learning how to shoot from a tripod that was a solid performance. Hardest part is slowing down that wobble and being able to call shots accurately.
Of most significance to me was how much HARDER the 308 hit those targets. As far as trajectory I will ALWAYS prefer less holdover to more holdover. IIRC you were at 13 MIL with the ARC and only 11 with the 308. Wind was definitely tricky on that day.
To be fair I’d be willing to trade 2 mils of holdover for a 2lb lighter gun
There’s an amazing amount of capability from 6 ARC given its size
@@Courtesyflush52 Something to remember as well is that the gun isn't the only thing that's lighter, the ammo is significantly lighter too. If we're considering a combat loadout, 6 ARC will be far more than 2 lbs lighter.
Great stuff man. Sure appreciate the content.
Loving seeing the 6 ARC showing its mettle against the big kids. If you're looking for a new toy to compare, I'd like to see a 6mm creedmoor go head to head with the 6 arc, and 6.5 creedmoor. My brain is telling me to build 6arc AR, and a 6 CM bolt/chassis rifle.
On the order of video, i do like a short summary of the video, and start shooting, then cover the nitty gritties later. Big fan of your extreme attention to detail and way of presenting it. I also like the ol' "here's what it does at 100 yards" before you stretch its legs. Helps us short rangers have an idea what we're looking at. Keep up the awesome work!
I'd love to see you build a 20" 6ARC and hang 2 ham hocks out at 800 yards then let the .308 and 6ARC have at them.... I think thats when you ll see the true advantage of the. 308....
At those ranges, I definitely prefer power to handiness...
Love your channel, keep up the good work. 👍
Thank you! Really appreciate you taking the time to watch and support the channel!
I see why you chose the 14.5 vs 20" 308, sure drops are similar. If we are talking just getting hits on target, and a hit is a kill, then the lighter easier to move ARC is a clear winner. Also the ARC carries energy much more efficiently at range, so I would have liked to see the power comparison between the 14.5 arc and a 14.5" 308, or 20" for both. Either way, great videos, keep it up.
They have a similar transonic velocity (1100 yards) so you can compare their energy pretty easily
At the 1000 yards he was shooting, the 6ARC will have 400ft-lbs of energy while the .308 will have more like 650ft-lbs. Both are certainly enough to take someone out of the fight
Great, high value video. Tons of information and entertaining
Great video. Thank you.
Really cool to hear you enjoyed watching this one! Thanks for watching!
Fantastic content man!! Love your channel and appreciate the amount of work that goes into making great content. I just picked up a centurion arms 18" 6mm ARC complete upper. I have founf 108gr ELdlD and 103 gr ELDX to be typically 1.5MOA and have heard lots of anecdotal evidence that the hornady 105gr BTHP is more accurate out of lots od gas guns. Did you fond same on your 14.5.....i recognize that you took 108gr ELD out pretty far and made hits!
Another Great Video 💯 Thank You 💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥
Good timing with KAC 6 arc today. Love your videos👍
Yeah man, had no clue KAC had a 6arc in the works. 100% I want one now haha
oh man livin the dream
I like the new format. I have a 16" 6MM ARC and it's great in close and out far.
I have loaded for a 7.65 x 51 and 308 in bolt actions. I owned a M1A1 but got rid of it.
Real good explanation and expert shooting as always. Would be fun to see a video with revolver cartridge lever actions out to 350 yds or further. I simply love the small rifles for what they are.
Thanks for another great video. Foundational to my choices of caliber, begins with what I am attempting to accomplish. The points that you made in the video are helpful for that analysis.
very cool video, nice shooting !
I have a buddy who runs a 24” 6mm ARC gun for matches and at the longer barrel lengths it actually starts to have less drop than .308 at 1000 yards, because it’s more efficient in its velocity retention
Your intro reminded me of 9holes pa course. I like it.
Would a 20in or longer arc help with wind drift at range?
Huge 9holes fan here!
For sure the extra velocity provided by a longer 6arc barrel would reduce wind drift and would reduce the drop required to hit those long distance targets. If you’re after a pure precision rifle and are willing to sacrifice maneuverability and handiness of the package a longer barrel will always offer better performance.
Either way with the intro buddy, love the content!
Absolutely awesome video! Stumbled across your channel and I'm really enjoying the content!
I agree. 6arc shorter lighter draggin around. My 308 is like 14lbs with optic on it. Pretty much a bench rifle
Another possible advantage of the 6 ARC over the .308 is that the .308 puts more wear and tear on the gun parts. So depending on what gun manufacture you go with, the .308 might start have components fail sooner than a 6 ARC. I believe T-Rex arms put an aero precisions .308 rifle through a 5000 round test which it didn't even finish because it had firing pin failures. They stopped the test around 3000 rounds due to these parts breaking. 6 ARC has less recoil and energy so I would theorize it would hopefully last longer in such a test.
That's more likely an aero precision issue than a .308 one. Their BCGs are notorious for premature failure and out-of-spec issues. I've seen similar reports of aero 5.56 bolt/carrier failures at 3k rounds. They make okay receivers but I would never use one of their BCGs or its components.
308 is proven in the AR-10 platform. The AR-10 is purpose built to handle 308. The 6 arc has been shoehorned into the AR-15. It is known to break bolts with any pressure, hence the 52ksi limit on 6 arc. All you learned from the TREX video is don’t buy an aero AR-10
@@K-bob_45 Obviously the manufacture of the rifle could be the issue and it is a sample size of one.... Hence the reason I said the words "possible" and I was "theorizing". My statement is just thought that needs way more testing.
@@Milkywaymike the way I look at it the AR-10 was engineered for 308. The AR-15 engineered for 5.56. The 6.8 spc and 220 Russian derivatives in the AR-15 make me think of back when MFG’s crammed 40 S&W into 9mm guns. Same with these new “small frame” 308’s
Love to see all the growth! Keep it up!!
For those of you who comment regarding down range energy or facing a bear, there is more to life than just hunting. 6 arc is a great PRS round.
Man I should pin this comment to the top! Is 6arc the right caliber for a charging bear…. No but it is a great target caliber which is exactly what I was demonstrating in this video!
Loved it. Person just has to decide the role the rifles will play.
Enjoyed the video
Yessir! That's amazing! 600 hold 6 etc. Can I ask you a question, what's the best long range caliber for the AR-15?
6ARC
@@MyLittleMonsters 6arc is exactly what I'm thinking! Thanks for the reply! Now I just need mullet to confirm!
@@knightcustombuilds6988the person who replied to you is not the video creator, just a random commenter
Man I agree with @mylittlemonsters…. 6arc is the ticket if you’re looking to shoot long range out of a small frame AR. Very capable to 1000yds and very easy to shoot accurately. The drawback at the moment is ammo price and availability given it’s primarily only Hornady creating factory ammo. I’m hoping this will improve though as the caliber gains adoption. 556 is another great choice if you’re only shooting out to say 600ish yds.
Target to varmint, varmint to deer.
I would love if you wrote this up on a blog. If you could give charts, speeds, etc. Including supressor etc I'm so down. I'm running a 18" unsupressed 6mm arc and a 20" 308. Looking at buying a can but yeah need to get it all down. But this just replicates what i see at the range and comps.
Great channel and you're great in front of a camera. The land you're shooting on is amazing and enviable. Is it farmland and how do you shoot when crops are growing? Do you only shoot and make videos after the harvest? Not trying to be in your business, just genuinely curious. Here in Texas there is no public land and anything over an acre is prohibitively expensive, so have to pay thousands a year for a membership to get marginal long range facilities. Plus our weather is terrible. What state are you in?
Now you need to put a 20" arc or even 18" on the arc to prove the theory... i love the 6arc as well..
Would be interesting to hear your thoughts on the 16" SR25
This was an eye opener
In what way? For me I thought the 6arc was way overhyped until I actually started shooting it. After running side by side vs 556 and 308 I’m finding the caliber is living up to the hype!
Thank you.
Mullet, your videos are so bright compared to all other youtube content. Any way to dial it down a little? I dont think its your exposure, it just seems like the brightness is turned up. Others please like this message if you agree. Not trying to complain, only trying to help. Thanks for the good content.
Interesting…. What platform are you watching on? I wonder if it’s the HDR filming of the iPhone video doing it. When I check on my iPhone and tv things seem fine but curious what others are seeing or what I can do to improve the image.
@@MountainsMulletsMerica Im using the TH-cam app on my iPad. The quality seems really good, its just very bright compared to anything else I watch on TH-cam. I have this issue with all your videos. I usually watch gun videos to lull me to sleep, so it may be more apparent in a dark setting. Anyhow, if the issue is isolated to only me then dont change a thing. I thought others may be having a similar issue and wanted to bring it to your attention. Again, thanks for the content man!
We like to do these comparisons, and they're fun, for sure. 308 did its thing, but let's not forget, this was 14.5 vs. 20 inches of barrel. That's a significant factor when comparing usage. We're all mostly bench shooting anyway, so what do we really care beyond recoil management lol
I don’t know about the other caliber, I’ve shot 308 for 40 years now so I’ll just stay with what I know. I’m playing around with.223 here lately, having a blast. I only have access to 600 yards to shoot
Better when start shooting. This is why I like it personally