Great lecture. Persian/Iranian Christianity is a criminally understudied and under appreciated field within the framework of late antique & medieval global Christianity; and, of course, since Western academia is so enamored by Islam for some reason, it’s basically ignored. I hope to see more studies like this in the future!
And for our time, through my Message, God has spoken again so that the whole earth may be warned. For example, through Kacou 13, 136, 144 and 145, God has spoken to all the Muslims of the earth. Through Kacou 139, 140 and 141, God has spoken to all the Hinduists and Buddhists
William G. Malek 1 second ago At the time of the Sassanid dynasty, the majority of the Christians in Persia were in fact Persians, non-Assyrians, (With a small population of Assyrians). But belonging to the church of the East that was pioneered and the head of the church, the Patriarch, were Assyrians. Only two Patriarchs of this church of the East were of Chinese-Mongolian origin. Back then in Persia, the church was called the "Persian Church", and later after the persecution that lasted over 40 consecutive years, it earned the name of the "Martyrdom Church". In our present time, the church officially is called, "The Holy Apostolic Assyrian Church of the East", and its members are scattered all over the world including India and China. The persecution started from (A.D. 335-375). At that period of time, the head of the Church was Patriarch Shimun (Simon). He was a very close friend of King Shapur II himself. However, The mobeds, the priests of Magianism gave warnings against the king being too close to the Christian Patriarch whose power was enormous among the people, and demanded the king request from his dearest friend (the Patriarch) kneel down to the Sun. The king beseeched the Patriarch just for once at least to kneel down to lessen the anger of the mobeds. The Patriarch refused even for once to worship the Sun, quoting, "Why should I worship the sun when he who created it is my Lord and Savior, God of the Universe". Ultimately, after much sorrow and beseeching, the king hatefully ordered the beheading of the Assyrian Patriarch with his entire archbishops, bishops, and the persecution of the church started in Persia along with all regions under their control. One important aspect of this that should be mentioned is that the daughter and one of the King's wives also marched toward the execution accepting the wreath of martyrdom after accepting Christianity as their only salvation from the sin of their king.
Excellent talk. As an Iranian I've read a couple of classic books about the Sassanid empire but this lecture was particularly educative. It gives a very clear picture of the empire and then questions established dogma about eastern Christians as an oppressed, unimportant minority. Cannot wait to read or hear more from Dr Richard Payne.
WOW... this was truly an enlightening video...THANK YOU for posting (said the Northern Minnesota Lutheran who suspected but couldn't prove ALL of the truths YOU DID prove)!
Were the Christians of the Sassanid dynasty Aramaic or Iranic speakers? I was under the impression that Christianity was the religion of Aramaic speakers, mainly in Mesopotamia.
dfront1978 God bless you, we need you in Europe as it has lost it’s faith!!! please God one day many Persian evangelist many come to west to teach the truth about Jesus.
At the time of the Sassanid dynasty, the majority of the Christians in Persia were in fact Persians, non-Assyrians, (With a small population of Assyrians). But belonging to the church of the East that was pioneered and the head of the church, the Patriarch, were Assyrians. Only two Patriarchs of this church of the East were of Chinese-Mongolian origin. Back then in Persia, the church was called the "Persian Church", and later after the persecution that lasted over 40 consecutive years, it earned the name of the "Martyrdom Church". In our present time, the church officially is called, "The Holy Apostolic Assyrian Church of the East", and its members are scattered all over the world including India and China. The persecution started from (A.D. 335-375). At that period of time, the head of the Church was Patriarch Shimun (Simon). He was a very close friend of King Shapur II himself. However, The mobeds, the priests of Magianism gave warnings against the king being too close to the Christian Patriarch whose power was enormous among the people, and demanded the king request from his dearest friend (the Patriarch) kneel down to the Sun. The king beseeched the Patriarch just for once at least to kneel down to lessen the anger of the mobeds. The Patriarch refused even for once to worship the Sun, quoting, "Why should I worship the sun when he who created it is my Lord and Savior, God of the Universe". Ultimately, after much sorrow and beseeching, the king hatefully ordered the beheading of the Assyrian Patriarch with his entire archbishops, bishops, and the persecution of the church started in Persia along with all regions under their control. One important aspect of this that should be mentioned is that the daughter and one of the King's wives also marched toward the execution accepting the wreath of martyrdom after accepting Christianity as their only salvation from the sin of their king.
Wonderful talk! But for the interference of islamic invaders, Christianity and Zoroastrianism with Judaism would have made Iran a veritable heaven of sorts described in the Avesta.
Syrain derives from the Assyrian word and The name Assyrain comes from the ancient city of Ashoor translated in to English as Assyrain but never syrain. 🙏🏼
Iran was the main issue for becomes Christianity. They have brought all these beliefs from Mesopotamian to the Iran. ACTUALLY, if you look at the Ancient Assyrian language in cuneiform about 3000 B.C the scholars have found many Assyrian verses on the script which utmost today it confirm by the bible of today, but not mentioned about where the source came from?
I don't normally comment on TH-cam videos, but this lecture left me flabbergasted. I agree with previous commenters who remarked on how the tone of the presentation seemed weirdly prejudiced - and considering the life-or-death stakes for the people involved, almost offensively so. It's one thing to explain that what we might think is excessively harsh treatment or outright persecution of a troublesome minority made sense politically from the viewpoint of the people doing the persecuting. But Payne's presentation went beyond that kind of academically neutral explanation and embraced a vocabulary of outright partisanship on the side of the authorities that veered at times into an almost bizarre personal umbrage.
I agree. The lecturer needs to read his own work. He becomes very dramatic about things he is inventing into the historical record. Note that he describes Roman policy as being one of "deporting" Christians to the end of the known world. How absurd, that the Romans had the inclination and capacity to do this. Yet he also notes that these eastern communities exhibited great power, wealth, prestige, and that they identified with state power. He then goes on to talk about the persecution again. Everyone wants to believe they are persecuted, especially the most powerful.
There is an error in what the fellow says. One Sassanian king DID convert to Christianity, namely Yazdakart II, who then married a Jewish lady. Consequently, he was given an abusive epithet by the Zoroastrian priest after his death, who branded him as Yazdgird i Gojastak, "Yazdgird the Sinner"
no he never converted to Christianity and the title they gave him is "yazdgird bazehgar" not gojastak.. "iskandar gojastak" is the title of "Alexander of Macedonia" .. Kavadh II was the only christian Sassanian king.
you are correct in that kavât/qobadh also converted, so there were two. yazdakart II had converted into christianity and without any reasonable as the christian church writings corroborate that. but you are right: bazihkâr or even bazehgar would have been apt than the "wajastak-gojastag=accursed"
kavadh II never converted to Christianity, he was born as one. The christian accounts about Yazdgird I is not correct. there are so many evidence that disapprove their claims. one of which is his coins, from the beginning of his region to his end all of his coins depict him as a Mazda worshiper.
This professor must be willfully ignorant if he thinks Nestorianism is an invention. One might debate the actual meaning of the term or whether it is appropriate but these theological differences was a reality. One cannot deny these by calling them "Christian infighting".
And for our time, through my Message, God has spoken again so that the whole earth may be warned. For example, through Kacou 13, 136, 144 and 145, God has spoken to all the Muslims of the earth. Through Kacou 139, 140 and 141, God has spoken to all the Hinduists and Buddhists
I am highly amused that he mentions the times when the Sassanid Empire humbled the Romans. These certainly happened. Far more often was Sassanid princes being defeated by Romans. Sassanid's strongest drives captured parts of Syria - important territories to be sure. The Romans, on the other hand, captured the Sassanid capital at Ctesiphon on more than one occasion, and were also very busy in the West... But hey, what do I know?
He is referring to a certain period when Iranian army's were doing better. Overall the Iranian - Roman wars were inconclusive. You comment about capitals is not accurate as the Iranian capital was hundreds of miles closer to the border and not protected by natural defenses.
@@QuickAndEasyTax He was explicitly talking about Byzantine-Persian war of 602-628, when Romans lost the entire Anatolia, Levant and Egypt to Sassanids, and Sassanids together with Avars put Constantinople under the siege and Heraclius was on the verge of accepting to become a vassal. On another note, pretty much every time a Roman emperor made it to Ctesiphon, he ended up dead right afterwards or killed! Remember Carus and Gordian III! The best performance was by Trajan who *also* died right after his victory and Hadrian had to relinquish everything back! and don't get me started with Valerian, Mark Anthony and Crassus! ;-)...Persians beat Romans give or take as much as Romans beat Persians and throughout their entire history of wars borders stayed pretty much the same except during Khosrow II.
Under the Sasanians Ctesiphon was only captured ones by Carus when Bahram II was busy fighting in the east of the empire. Ctesiphon was also very close to the border during both Parthian and Sasanian empire, so of course it was much more easy for the Romans to conquer Ctesiphon than for the Sasanians to capture Rome or even Constantinople, if they even had the ambition to do that. You can compare it much more with Antioch which was sacked multiple times by the Sasanians.
It's not "atheist", it's secular, i.e., religiously neutral. And given that he's talking about events that occurred in an area which both at the time of the events as well as today is majority non-Christian, using the neutral CE/BCE system is entirely appropriate. On the other hand - see my comment below.
@@Saffetree So you say that CE or what is neutral. Funny. It may be neutral or one could call it in many ways but still use the birth of Christ the Lord's when refers to a certain date .No idea why neutrals or non-religious don't use some other date as Christ is not trendy nowadays in west ,cause west has trends😆 .So many idols in west ,they should chose one then after they get bored could chose another one etc.,etc.
@@Saffetree And forgot to mention something. You might not know but in communism was forbidden the Before Christ and Anno Domini. Was forbidden! As the Communists were (are) atheists !They used Before Common Era and Common Era. I thought communism is history -after the fall of Soviet Union but I might be wrong. Anyhow I don't want any communism or BCE or CE or what anymore ever in my life but possible others yes.😆
@@csillab3804 Oh FFS. The phrase "common era" dates back hundreds of years. It has nothing to do with communism. I hear Stalin ate with a fork. Does that make forks communist? Does this mean you're going to eat with your fingers from now on? The Dunning-Kruger is strong in you, isn't it?
Thank you for this amazing enlightened informed lecture I listen to it 3 time to see i didn’t miss anything, 🙏🏼 my heart was crying as I was listening and saying history repeating it self again as Iran now persecuting there own Muslim converts and let alone kicked mostly Assyrain Christian out to diospira. 😔😢
Catholic church is a false teaching Jesus what's his people to Wake up and repent not to be Catholic but to be born again in Jesus name without him no way
Great lecture. Persian/Iranian Christianity is a criminally understudied and under appreciated field within the framework of late antique & medieval global Christianity; and, of course, since Western academia is so enamored by Islam for some reason, it’s basically ignored. I hope to see more studies like this in the future!
And for our time, through my Message, God has spoken again so that the whole earth may be warned. For example, through Kacou 13, 136, 144 and 145, God has spoken to all the Muslims of the earth. Through Kacou 139, 140 and 141, God has spoken to all the Hinduists and Buddhists
William G. Malek
1 second ago
At the time of the Sassanid dynasty, the majority of the Christians in Persia were in fact Persians, non-Assyrians, (With a small population of Assyrians). But belonging to the church of the East that was pioneered and the head of the church, the Patriarch, were Assyrians. Only two Patriarchs of this church of the East were of Chinese-Mongolian origin. Back then in Persia, the church was called the "Persian Church", and later after the persecution that lasted over 40 consecutive years, it earned the name of the "Martyrdom Church". In our present time, the church officially is called, "The Holy Apostolic Assyrian Church of the East", and its members are scattered all over the world including India and China. The persecution started from (A.D. 335-375). At that period of time, the head of the Church was Patriarch Shimun (Simon). He was a very close friend of King Shapur II himself. However, The mobeds, the priests of Magianism gave warnings against the king being too close to the Christian Patriarch whose power was enormous among the people, and demanded the king request from his dearest friend (the Patriarch) kneel down to the Sun. The king beseeched the Patriarch just for once at least to kneel down to lessen the anger of the mobeds. The Patriarch refused even for once to worship the Sun, quoting, "Why should I worship the sun when he who created it is my Lord and Savior, God of the Universe". Ultimately, after much sorrow and beseeching, the king hatefully ordered the beheading of the Assyrian Patriarch with his entire archbishops, bishops, and the persecution of the church started in Persia along with all regions under their control. One important aspect of this that should be mentioned is that the daughter and one of the King's wives also marched toward the execution accepting the wreath of martyrdom after accepting Christianity as their only salvation from the sin of their king.
Excellent talk.
As an Iranian I've read a couple of classic books about the Sassanid empire but this lecture was particularly educative.
It gives a very clear picture of the empire and then questions established dogma about eastern Christians as an oppressed, unimportant minority.
Cannot wait to read or hear more from Dr Richard Payne.
This is one of the best OI lectures I've ever listened to.
WOW... this was truly an enlightening video...THANK YOU for posting (said the Northern Minnesota Lutheran who suspected but couldn't prove ALL of the truths YOU DID prove)!
Christianity is the fastest growing religion in Iran.
Thank you for this excellent presentation. Sohrab Ramtin
Were the Christians of the Sassanid dynasty Aramaic or Iranic speakers? I was under the impression that Christianity was the religion of Aramaic speakers, mainly in Mesopotamia.
They Christians of the Sassanid empire were mostly Aramaic speakers of mesopotamia and Khuzestan. In the Iran's mainland, they were tiny communities.
dfront1978
God bless you, we need you in Europe as it has lost it’s faith!!! please God one day many Persian evangelist many come to west to teach the truth about Jesus.
@@mattkylie6723 lol modern magi
At the time of the Sassanid dynasty, the majority of the Christians in Persia were in fact Persians, non-Assyrians, (With a small population of Assyrians). But belonging to the church of the East that was pioneered and the head of the church, the Patriarch, were Assyrians. Only two Patriarchs of this church of the East were of Chinese-Mongolian origin. Back then in Persia, the church was called the "Persian Church", and later after the persecution that lasted over 40 consecutive years, it earned the name of the "Martyrdom Church". In our present time, the church officially is called, "The Holy Apostolic Assyrian Church of the East", and its members are scattered all over the world including India and China. The persecution started from (A.D. 335-375). At that period of time, the head of the Church was Patriarch Shimun (Simon). He was a very close friend of King Shapur II himself. However, The mobeds, the priests of Magianism gave warnings against the king being too close to the Christian Patriarch whose power was enormous among the people, and demanded the king request from his dearest friend (the Patriarch) kneel down to the Sun. The king beseeched the Patriarch just for once at least to kneel down to lessen the anger of the mobeds. The Patriarch refused even for once to worship the Sun, quoting, "Why should I worship the sun when he who created it is my Lord and Savior, God of the Universe". Ultimately, after much sorrow and beseeching, the king hatefully ordered the beheading of the Assyrian Patriarch with his entire archbishops, bishops, and the persecution of the church started in Persia along with all regions under their control. One important aspect of this that should be mentioned is that the daughter and one of the King's wives also marched toward the execution accepting the wreath of martyrdom after accepting Christianity as their only salvation from the sin of their king.
excellent lecture
Wonderful talk! But for the interference of islamic invaders, Christianity and Zoroastrianism with Judaism would have made Iran a veritable heaven of sorts described in the Avesta.
Judaism is described as the religion of Zahak/Ahriman in Zoroastrian religious texts.
Why does he keep reffering to Assyrians as Syrians?
Syrain derives from the Assyrian word and The name Assyrain comes from the ancient city of Ashoor translated in to English as Assyrain but never syrain. 🙏🏼
Syria derives from Assyria, like CNN and Fox attempts at renaming Kyiv 2 Kyev in the last few weeks 🤔
@@JackieM3 The name Assyria comes from syrus according to Roman outhers
Iran was the main issue for becomes Christianity. They have brought all these beliefs from Mesopotamian to the Iran. ACTUALLY, if you look at the Ancient Assyrian language in cuneiform about 3000 B.C the scholars have found many Assyrian verses on the script which utmost today it confirm by the bible of today, but not mentioned about where the source came from?
Christ is alive..amen
And then he turns around and justifies persecution as "integration", Queen Elizabeth I would have been proud of such sophistry.
I don't normally comment on TH-cam videos, but this lecture left me flabbergasted.
I agree with previous commenters who remarked on how the tone of the presentation seemed weirdly prejudiced - and considering the life-or-death stakes for the people involved, almost offensively so. It's one thing to explain that what we might think is excessively harsh treatment or outright persecution of a troublesome minority made sense politically from the viewpoint of the people doing the persecuting. But Payne's presentation went beyond that kind of academically neutral explanation and embraced a vocabulary of outright partisanship on the side of the authorities that veered at times into an almost bizarre personal umbrage.
I agree. The lecturer needs to read his own work. He becomes very dramatic about things he is inventing into the historical record. Note that he describes Roman policy as being one of "deporting" Christians to the end of the known world. How absurd, that the Romans had the inclination and capacity to do this. Yet he also notes that these eastern communities exhibited great power, wealth, prestige, and that they identified with state power. He then goes on to talk about the persecution again. Everyone wants to believe they are persecuted, especially the most powerful.
I thought it was just me. Thank you for saying that so well.
There is an error in what the fellow says. One Sassanian king DID convert to Christianity, namely Yazdakart II, who then married a Jewish lady. Consequently, he was given an abusive epithet by the Zoroastrian priest after his death, who branded him as Yazdgird i Gojastak, "Yazdgird the Sinner"
no he never converted to Christianity and the title they gave him is "yazdgird bazehgar" not gojastak.. "iskandar gojastak" is the title of "Alexander of Macedonia" .. Kavadh II was the only christian Sassanian king.
you are correct in that kavât/qobadh also converted, so there were two. yazdakart II had converted into christianity and without any reasonable as the christian church writings corroborate that. but you are right: bazihkâr or even bazehgar would have been apt than the "wajastak-gojastag=accursed"
kavadh II never converted to Christianity, he was born as one. The christian accounts about Yazdgird I is not correct. there are so many evidence that disapprove their claims. one of which is his coins, from the beginning of his region to his end all of his coins depict him as a Mazda worshiper.
This professor must be willfully ignorant if he thinks Nestorianism is an invention. One might debate the actual meaning of the term or whether it is appropriate but these theological differences was a reality. One cannot deny these by calling them "Christian infighting".
And for our time, through my Message, God has spoken again so that the whole earth may be warned. For example, through Kacou 13, 136, 144 and 145, God has spoken to all the Muslims of the earth. Through Kacou 139, 140 and 141, God has spoken to all the Hinduists and Buddhists
baller!
East Syrias are Assyrian! Syria is short for Assyria…
True.
Iran, France, doesn't bother me. I'm very modern.
Wow its me but smart...
Thou can't designate Israelites as Hebräischen, can you?
I am highly amused that he mentions the times when the Sassanid Empire humbled the Romans. These certainly happened. Far more often was Sassanid princes being defeated by Romans. Sassanid's strongest drives captured parts of Syria - important territories to be sure. The Romans, on the other hand, captured the Sassanid capital at Ctesiphon on more than one occasion, and were also very busy in the West... But hey, what do I know?
He is referring to a certain period when Iranian army's were doing better. Overall the Iranian - Roman wars were inconclusive. You comment about capitals is not accurate as the Iranian capital was hundreds of miles closer to the border and not protected by natural defenses.
@@QuickAndEasyTax He was explicitly talking about Byzantine-Persian war of 602-628, when Romans lost the entire Anatolia, Levant and Egypt to Sassanids, and Sassanids together with Avars put Constantinople under the siege and Heraclius was on the verge of accepting to become a vassal. On another note, pretty much every time a Roman emperor made it to Ctesiphon, he ended up dead right afterwards or killed! Remember Carus and Gordian III! The best performance was by Trajan who *also* died right after his victory and Hadrian had to relinquish everything back! and don't get me started with Valerian, Mark Anthony and Crassus! ;-)...Persians beat Romans give or take as much as Romans beat Persians and throughout their entire history of wars borders stayed pretty much the same except during Khosrow II.
Under the Sasanians Ctesiphon was only captured ones by Carus when Bahram II was busy fighting in the east of the empire. Ctesiphon was also very close to the border during both Parthian and Sasanian empire, so of course it was much more easy for the Romans to conquer Ctesiphon than for the Sasanians to capture Rome or even Constantinople, if they even had the ambition to do that. You can compare it much more with Antioch which was sacked multiple times by the Sasanians.
Was Iran called Iran at the time? 🤔
Of course
Persia
He starts his presentation by using the Athiest CE instead of the correct AD?
It's not "atheist", it's secular, i.e., religiously neutral. And given that he's talking about events that occurred in an area which both at the time of the events as well as today is majority non-Christian, using the neutral CE/BCE system is entirely appropriate.
On the other hand - see my comment below.
@@Saffetree AD is a proper title for the Christian era...its not good to change that.
@@Saffetree So you say that CE or what is neutral. Funny. It may be neutral or one could call it in many ways but still use the birth of Christ the Lord's when refers to a certain date .No idea why neutrals or non-religious don't use some other date as Christ is not trendy nowadays in west ,cause west has trends😆 .So many idols in west ,they should chose one then after they get bored could chose another one etc.,etc.
@@Saffetree And forgot to mention something. You might not know but in communism was forbidden the Before Christ and Anno Domini. Was forbidden! As the Communists were (are) atheists !They used Before Common Era and Common Era. I thought communism is history -after the fall of Soviet Union but I might be wrong. Anyhow I don't want any communism or BCE or CE or what anymore ever in my life but possible others yes.😆
@@csillab3804 Oh FFS. The phrase "common era" dates back hundreds of years. It has nothing to do with communism.
I hear Stalin ate with a fork. Does that make forks communist? Does this mean you're going to eat with your fingers from now on?
The Dunning-Kruger is strong in you, isn't it?
Thank you for this amazing enlightened informed lecture I listen to it 3 time to see i didn’t miss anything, 🙏🏼 my heart was crying as I was listening and saying history repeating it self again as Iran now persecuting there own Muslim converts and let alone kicked mostly Assyrain Christian out to diospira. 😔😢
Wonderful Jesus is coming soon da way things is going in Iranian
Were in end time days us da Bible says in Matt 24
Islam was made by catholic church true to iranian Christians
Catholic church is a false teaching Jesus what's his people to Wake up and repent not to be Catholic but to be born again in Jesus name without him no way
@@serwaddapeter8876 where is there a false teaching in a catholic church? explain and provide examples.
Lol🤣😂🤣🤣
May God forgive you and may He Himself show you the way truth and life ..and guide you to become more human
Unfug!
The first boring OI lecture I've watched.
THEN U SHOULDN'T HAVE WATCHED FURTHER, NOBODY' ASKED U TOO IN THE FIRST PLACE, IT'S PURELY INDIVIDUAL VIEWING NOBODY FORCED U TO WATCH IT 💯