I'm glad you shared your thoughts on this topic and I feel the same way. The process and the experience of creating, is part of the reason why I paint! I also think, that the most important thing, in regards to fine art, is people and emotions - connecting the artist and the viewer.
AI art will only make “ human” art more valuable. Like in Blade runner when he asked the snake girl if her snake was real , she replied “ no way, they are too expensive”
You're a wise man, Eric -- and sweet too. Thanks for the coffee talk!
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I always like your relaxed tone and how you approach your subject calmly: it's a refreshing change to the fast pace of TH-cam videos! I totally agree about what you're underlying: there's no fun if I don't have the experience of painting. I've tried to use these AI systems to generate for instance references or basic ideas upon which I could build something of my own. This can be interesting but even so, struggling to use words to describe images feels kind of awkward and even boring: there's more fun in picking a brush and letting it go! That's exactly why I paint traditionally rather than digitally. I remember a video you've did some time ago about finding our reason to paint. The simple pleasure of painting and overcoming my own limits (or failing but learning in the process) are sufficient motivations to have fun and enjoy the process!
Really thoughtful chat! Thanks so much for sharing. :) I had a couple thoughts. First, from an art history perspective, I think it's really fascinating how much the current debate about AI-generated art almost exactly mirrors the kind of debate that happened about the invention of photography. Similar declarations that photography would be the "death of art"... But, as you point out, a huge part of the value of art is the experience of the process of creation -- directly for the artist, but also vicariously for the viewer who is invited to imaginatively participate in the creative act through the very act of viewing -- and also appreciating the skill involved in that process. The very fact that point-and-click photography is so easy is why most people don't consider the vast majority of photos to be works of art, and fine art photography is photography that shows particular skill, creativity or communicates some unique perspective. I think the same will eventually be true of AI-generated art -- the easier it is to make, the higher the bar will be raised for what is considered "art" using AI as a tool. Meanwhile, all sorts of traditional artists will be able to incorporate AI into their process the way many painters now use "reference photos" to collect and organize possible inspiration for their art instead of relying solely on sketches and live models, f'ex. My other thought was about sharing the process of creating art online -- I think a ton of people already do this, but one thing I've noticed is that when you start to do that, there's a pressure to treat the process of creation as itself a kind of performance art, and to leave out the "messy" parts. A dancer or musician performing on stage goes through a lot of rehearsal and practice that can be quite boring to a non-expert, and I think likewise, painters and artists who start to "perform" their process for public consumption will probably still need to incorporate more "off stage" practice and rehearsal (and outtakes and bad camera angles, etc.) as their performance, rather than the final product, becomes the thing the viewer seeks out from them. Either way, I guess what I'm saying is, I think there will always be an aspect of artistic practice that is too ugly, messy, awkward or boring for the general public to appreciate, and the challenge of being an artist is embracing the work that remains invisible to everyone but the artist but that gives the ultimate product or performance its depth and grace. :)
Such a great podcast, Eric. It’s great to have you back 👌I agree with you 💯. I recently started playing with NFTs and started a collection’ From Paper to Painting’ where I share the photos of my paintings from the drawing through each wash to the completed painting. The idea is to share the process. I hadn’t crystallised my thinking as to why, I just want to add value and your comments now explain to me why I did this 😊. This is the closest I can get to sharing the experience of the painting without doing the videos you do so well. Unfortunately, I often forgot to take a photo before starting the next phase so I don’t have many now but will be doing it for all future work. Thank you for your wise perspective and showing me why I am doing what I am doing 👏👏👏
Thank you Eric, for your thoughtful talk about this subject. I think you are absolutely right about the experience of art being irreplaceable and you put this very eloquently. I feel a little better having watched your chat; I had been worrying about the impact of AI on art. I saw an item on TV the other day about a female robot that produces very attractive art and thought, what about those of us who aren’t “robots”, where does this leave us in the future? But you have set my mind at rest. I agree too that AI produced art should be judged in a separate category - people need to understand the difference - and there is one!
I agree about AI Art being in a separate category. I also am Very uneasy about AI… where it can lead. Thank you Eric. Human made art ❤ the artist heart, emotion and unique character.
You are absolutely correct. I do watch many vids on an assortment of art medium. Painting, sketching, crafting, digital, sewing...etc In watching any of those I am more amazed by the creators that show a real connection to their work and that takes processes. As I watch creators doing digital art, maybe not all and or maybe I don't visually realize or I guess understand the process, I dont feel that same amazement as when I am watching a creator using real life mediums, if that makes any sense. Watching digital art creators it always feels so rushed and that the point of doing digital is to get it done quickly which makes sense since digital is so prevalent so that is exactly the point get it done now.
Very good argument. I suppose, there is also huge value added to the process of creating art, and its history and origin. AI art will end up as quick, easy, and good (and possibly cheap and artificial) but still, it will be lacking in "sentimental value." Also, I suspect there was also a similar question back in the time when a lot of portrait painters were getting displaced by photography. Photography has allowed the masses to store their family portraits affordably.. perhaps AI will also make some nice things affordable to the masses. Same thing with mobile photography versus camera photography?
I’ve tried an AI app on my iPad to give me ideas that I might not otherwise have thought of. Most of the things generated look like an artist on drugs made them. Thanks for your thoughts Eric! Glad to see you again!
I totally agree with your sentiments, and I actually admire how calmly you've articulated them. Though I'd have to add, the danger of AI art is not so much that it will cause people to give up the journey of learning to create art, but that it makes making a living as an artist just that much more difficult. Why pay a human to make something when you can use AI to copy from existing top-tier talent and fake something novel? Eventually though, I see this whole AI thing as a flash in the pan. Humans value things that are difficult to come by, and a well-painted piece of physical art is inherently more difficult to make than some prompted from computer in seconds. Eventually art will be redefined as physical paintings, or digital art accompanied with progress and roughs as proof of "humanness".
This is a very interesting. And I just heard about AI art a few days ago. I felt that AI will improve productivity for some digital art to certain degree, but it will not replace human artistry for 2 reasons. #1 - the joy/emotions/ frustration/difficulties, etc, all these involved in creating the art, bringing to the person, could not be replaced by AI art. #2 - AI's art is based on the input, whatever existing created from the past. and I believe it could not create from nothing, like human. Then, again, time will tell. Let's wait to see.
Exactly. The process is the payoff. Everytime I paint, I discover something. And I've been doing watercolors for over thirty years. And, if you are willing to dare and to grow, watercolors will surprise and challenge you, again and again. I feel neither threatened by nor inclined to dabble in AI 'art to order'. Just muttering.
This topic tends to make one think about the medium, as much as the visual results ... if someone buys a watercolor painting from you, it is a physical and 'emotional' work, while AI art, thus far, is digital, ephemeral, and philosophically, at least, not 'emotional'... as a commenter below discusses, there still seems to be 'something' in fine art photography ... one can say that the photo took 1/125 second to make, after years of experience. Nice yo hear your thoughts. On another topic: I travelled to Japan on business 6 times, but was lucky enough to be able to have a weekend there, kind of 'hosted', do that we travelled to small villages, mountain hotels, remote on-sen... I found Japan to be quite visually inspirational, something about the shapes and colours of the nature, and many things about their 'everyday' products, buildings, and just the 'dimensions' and shapes.. interested to hear more about your trip, and 'moment'
I'm so happy for your trip. I came back from Japan and Taiwan 2 month ago and I still miss there (despite it being very hot during the summer) I have so much story to tell with my paintings =)
A water color or any traditional artist, AI art probably has much less effect than that of someone who specializes in digital art, especially someone who specializes in the lower end commission tier artist. Professional grade digital artists don't have anything to worry about for now. Corporate adoption and even adoption from digital artists as a tool will be slow. In the current state, touch up is basically required for most AI art, but it will get better. A subset of digital artist use existing photo art to create new art. It comes down to productivity, and people will use this technology, especially small indie groups of people who may not have the budget for a traditional art team. Artists will still be needed, but the demand will be less, especially on the lower end or certain specialist jobs, such as colorists, surrealist/abstract or landscapes, which the AI seems to be better at compared to natural character art, which it struggles at. You will always need an artist to give the project artistic direction even if an AI tool was used. I also don't think most artists wants to create 1000+ trees and dirt textures, and the AI can help artists remove some of that tedium. Making a main character? Hands off AI. Will be made by an artist.
Recently I did a flower paintingin that I did flower first ...then used wax resist over flower.... then did background easily...so I realized no need for negative painting in any painting.whats your opinion?
People and companies that hire artists couldn’t care less about the process or the experience of making /creating art. They only care about the results and how quickly and cheaply they can get it. More than ever I will make art solely for myself and not expect to make a living doing it other than teaching some that wants to do the same. I use both traditional and digital methods to create art.
I just finished my Bachelors in June and whenever I had to use Photoshop or similar programs I got so confused, which wasn't good for my head 🤣😂 Personally, I will stick to "hands on" art work because I funnily enough find it easier ☺️
I totaly get your point as a portrait artist I don't need to draw a face by hand I can trace it in many diffrent ways and colored it. But it isn't sutisfiing it feels like cheating and there is no me in the process. I have no sutisfaction from this kind of art.
I think someone said something like - the day we forget how to use our hands we will use them to give ourselves a slap across the forehed - or was it me lol
Robot and Ai technologies are creating an existential crisis where we question what we are and what it means to be a human being. For example, are we going to allow ourselves to become cyborgs and if so to what degree? Some think that this is a good thing. Then why do I feel so sad?
Real art is about the painter/artist and subject. AI means, Absolutely Idiotic. AI art is cold and heartless nevertheless to say fake. Each artist has his own unique signature in their endeavor.
I tried AI art and got rid of it. Simply put, it can't do hands. It mashes up different forms of art and does abstract intricate art well, but has no soul. It will be a useful tool in the future, but it really won't replace art. John Madden football video games have not replaced football.
Art is something that cannot be recreated. Any form of art, fine art, writing, music or anything..in the case of fine art, if someone recreates something, rather beautiful, it may be a great draftsmanship or copy but not art. So, I don't call anybody an artist if he or she takes a photo reference and copies that thing in a beautiful manner. Obviously, any good image creation demands years of practice, lots of hard work, and perhaps sacrifices, but that's not art.
It is horror movie, but with "consent" of victims. No, art is not just process, metaphysics, etc. It is also result, that distinguish us. It is work and livelihood. That stands for any human skill, talent, effort. This is so wrong on so many levels, just think of the way they collected data for this.. unethical, illigal, etc...
I personally do not believe it should be considered art at all. It is nothing but a computer program, input= output. It completely lacks human creativity and emotion that comes with it. Only God knows where this go.
Who knows, someday a non artist like me connected to technology by wire and my brain and hands can perform wonders to my delight giving me tremendous satisfaction and experience probably more than a real artist could have, ridiculing the entire artist community!
I'm glad you shared your thoughts on this topic and I feel the same way. The process and the experience of creating, is part of the reason why I paint! I also think, that the most important thing, in regards to fine art, is people and emotions - connecting the artist and the viewer.
AI art will only make “ human” art more valuable. Like in Blade runner when he asked the snake girl if her snake was real , she replied “ no way, they are too expensive”
I mean, blacksmithed knives cost a fortune.
You're a wise man, Eric -- and sweet too. Thanks for the coffee talk!
I always like your relaxed tone and how you approach your subject calmly: it's a refreshing change to the fast pace of TH-cam videos! I totally agree about what you're underlying: there's no fun if I don't have the experience of painting. I've tried to use these AI systems to generate for instance references or basic ideas upon which I could build something of my own. This can be interesting but even so, struggling to use words to describe images feels kind of awkward and even boring: there's more fun in picking a brush and letting it go! That's exactly why I paint traditionally rather than digitally.
I remember a video you've did some time ago about finding our reason to paint. The simple pleasure of painting and overcoming my own limits (or failing but learning in the process) are sufficient motivations to have fun and enjoy the process!
Thank you for your thoughts and time, Eric. Congrats on the new job and we'll be looking forward to hearing more about your trip 🙂
Really thoughtful chat! Thanks so much for sharing. :) I had a couple thoughts. First, from an art history perspective, I think it's really fascinating how much the current debate about AI-generated art almost exactly mirrors the kind of debate that happened about the invention of photography. Similar declarations that photography would be the "death of art"... But, as you point out, a huge part of the value of art is the experience of the process of creation -- directly for the artist, but also vicariously for the viewer who is invited to imaginatively participate in the creative act through the very act of viewing -- and also appreciating the skill involved in that process. The very fact that point-and-click photography is so easy is why most people don't consider the vast majority of photos to be works of art, and fine art photography is photography that shows particular skill, creativity or communicates some unique perspective. I think the same will eventually be true of AI-generated art -- the easier it is to make, the higher the bar will be raised for what is considered "art" using AI as a tool. Meanwhile, all sorts of traditional artists will be able to incorporate AI into their process the way many painters now use "reference photos" to collect and organize possible inspiration for their art instead of relying solely on sketches and live models, f'ex.
My other thought was about sharing the process of creating art online -- I think a ton of people already do this, but one thing I've noticed is that when you start to do that, there's a pressure to treat the process of creation as itself a kind of performance art, and to leave out the "messy" parts. A dancer or musician performing on stage goes through a lot of rehearsal and practice that can be quite boring to a non-expert, and I think likewise, painters and artists who start to "perform" their process for public consumption will probably still need to incorporate more "off stage" practice and rehearsal (and outtakes and bad camera angles, etc.) as their performance, rather than the final product, becomes the thing the viewer seeks out from them. Either way, I guess what I'm saying is, I think there will always be an aspect of artistic practice that is too ugly, messy, awkward or boring for the general public to appreciate, and the challenge of being an artist is embracing the work that remains invisible to everyone but the artist but that gives the ultimate product or performance its depth and grace. :)
AI art should be in its own category! I remain a human art🥰
Such a great podcast, Eric. It’s great to have you back 👌I agree with you 💯. I recently started playing with NFTs and started a collection’ From Paper to Painting’ where I share the photos of my paintings from the drawing through each wash to the completed painting. The idea is to share the process. I hadn’t crystallised my thinking as to why, I just want to add value and your comments now explain to me why I did this 😊. This is the closest I can get to sharing the experience of the painting without doing the videos you do so well. Unfortunately, I often forgot to take a photo before starting the next phase so I don’t have many now but will be doing it for all future work. Thank you for your wise perspective and showing me why I am doing what I am doing 👏👏👏
Thank you Eric, for your thoughtful talk about this subject. I think you are absolutely right about the experience of art being irreplaceable and you put this very eloquently. I feel a little better having watched your chat; I had been worrying about the impact of AI on art. I saw an item on TV the other day about a female robot that produces very attractive art and thought, what about those of us who aren’t “robots”, where does this leave us in the future? But you have set my mind at rest. I agree too that AI produced art should be judged in a separate category - people need to understand the difference - and there is one!
I agree about AI Art being in a separate category. I also am Very uneasy about AI… where it can lead.
Thank you Eric.
Human made art ❤ the artist heart, emotion and unique character.
You are absolutely correct. I do watch many vids on an assortment of art medium. Painting, sketching, crafting, digital, sewing...etc In watching any of those I am more amazed by the creators that show a real connection to their work and that takes processes. As I watch creators doing digital art, maybe not all and or maybe I don't visually realize or I guess understand the process, I dont feel that same amazement as when I am watching a creator using real life mediums, if that makes any sense. Watching digital art creators it always feels so rushed and that the point of doing digital is to get it done quickly which makes sense since digital is so prevalent so that is exactly the point get it done now.
Thanks for your thoughtful podcast. Glad everything is going well for you!
Very good argument. I suppose, there is also huge value added to the process of creating art, and its history and origin. AI art will end up as quick, easy, and good (and possibly cheap and artificial) but still, it will be lacking in "sentimental value." Also, I suspect there was also a similar question back in the time when a lot of portrait painters were getting displaced by photography. Photography has allowed the masses to store their family portraits affordably.. perhaps AI will also make some nice things affordable to the masses. Same thing with mobile photography versus camera photography?
I’ve tried an AI app on my iPad to give me ideas that I might not otherwise have thought of. Most of the things generated look like an artist on drugs made them. Thanks for your thoughts Eric! Glad to see you again!
Good thinking and philosophy!! Thank you
so true..its the experience and the process that matters the most. Thank you for sharing
You are wonderful thank you very much for sharing!
Thank you for sharing this.
I totally agree with your sentiments, and I actually admire how calmly you've articulated them. Though I'd have to add, the danger of AI art is not so much that it will cause people to give up the journey of learning to create art, but that it makes making a living as an artist just that much more difficult. Why pay a human to make something when you can use AI to copy from existing top-tier talent and fake something novel?
Eventually though, I see this whole AI thing as a flash in the pan. Humans value things that are difficult to come by, and a well-painted piece of physical art is inherently more difficult to make than some prompted from computer in seconds. Eventually art will be redefined as physical paintings, or digital art accompanied with progress and roughs as proof of "humanness".
This is a very interesting. And I just heard about AI art a few days ago. I felt that AI will improve productivity for some digital art to certain degree, but it will not replace human artistry for 2 reasons.
#1 - the joy/emotions/ frustration/difficulties, etc, all these involved in creating the art, bringing to the person, could not be replaced by AI art.
#2 - AI's art is based on the input, whatever existing created from the past. and I believe it could not create from nothing, like human.
Then, again, time will tell. Let's wait to see.
We will be gaining something but we will definitely be losing something. That something I don’t want to lose!
Thank you, Eric!
Thanks for your insight AÍ is something I have been wondering about
Wonderful and great video deep and very deep message and video content. Congratulations thank you for sharing this beautiful Message.❤😊
Exactly. The process is the payoff. Everytime I paint, I discover something. And I've been doing watercolors for over thirty years. And, if you are willing to dare and to grow, watercolors will surprise and challenge you, again and again. I feel neither threatened by nor inclined to dabble in AI 'art to order'. Just muttering.
I can't like this segment enough. Thank you.
This topic tends to make one think about the medium, as much as the visual results ... if someone buys a watercolor painting from you, it is a physical and 'emotional' work, while AI art, thus far, is digital, ephemeral, and philosophically, at least, not 'emotional'... as a commenter below discusses, there still seems to be 'something' in fine art photography ... one can say that the photo took 1/125 second to make, after years of experience. Nice yo hear your thoughts.
On another topic: I travelled to Japan on business 6 times, but was lucky enough to be able to have a weekend there, kind of 'hosted', do that we travelled to small villages, mountain hotels, remote on-sen... I found Japan to be quite visually inspirational, something about the shapes and colours of the nature, and many things about their 'everyday' products, buildings, and just the 'dimensions' and shapes.. interested to hear more about your trip, and 'moment'
I'm so happy for your trip. I came back from Japan and Taiwan 2 month ago and I still miss there (despite it being very hot during the summer) I have so much story to tell with my paintings =)
I agree with you. Thanks
Thank you.
Well said. I agree with you wholeheartedly
❤ nice talk 🎉
A water color or any traditional artist, AI art probably has much less effect than that of someone who specializes in digital art, especially someone who specializes in the lower end commission tier artist. Professional grade digital artists don't have anything to worry about for now. Corporate adoption and even adoption from digital artists as a tool will be slow. In the current state, touch up is basically required for most AI art, but it will get better. A subset of digital artist use existing photo art to create new art. It comes down to productivity, and people will use this technology, especially small indie groups of people who may not have the budget for a traditional art team. Artists will still be needed, but the demand will be less, especially on the lower end or certain specialist jobs, such as colorists, surrealist/abstract or landscapes, which the AI seems to be better at compared to natural character art, which it struggles at. You will always need an artist to give the project artistic direction even if an AI tool was used. I also don't think most artists wants to create 1000+ trees and dirt textures, and the AI can help artists remove some of that tedium. Making a main character? Hands off AI. Will be made by an artist.
I used an AI tool to turn some of my best photos into watercolor paintings. Then I try to paint them. I find it easier then working from my pictures.
Recently I did a flower paintingin that I did flower first ...then used wax resist over flower.... then did background easily...so I realized no need for negative painting in any painting.whats your opinion?
Well said Eric, well said. :o)
People and companies that hire artists couldn’t care less about the process or the experience of making /creating art. They only care about the results and how quickly and cheaply they can get it. More than ever I will make art solely for myself and not expect to make a living doing it other than teaching some that wants to do the same. I use both traditional and digital methods to create art.
I just finished my Bachelors in June and whenever I had to use Photoshop or similar programs I got so confused, which wasn't good for my head 🤣😂 Personally, I will stick to "hands on" art work because I funnily enough find it easier ☺️
I totaly get your point as a portrait artist I don't need to draw a face by hand I can trace it in many diffrent ways and colored it. But it isn't sutisfiing it feels like cheating and there is no me in the process. I have no sutisfaction from this kind of art.
I think someone said something like - the day we forget how to use our hands we will use them to give ourselves a slap across the forehed - or was it me lol
the same conversation Pablo did with his generation
when Photography came into being.....
One thing me and AI have in common:
Neither of us can draw hands!!!
I mean you don’t have to worry? The effects are higher on digital artists since physical artists’ client are people who prefer physical art
Robot and Ai technologies are creating an existential crisis where we question what we are and what it means to be a human being. For example, are we going to allow ourselves to become cyborgs and if so to what degree? Some think that this is a good thing. Then why do I feel so sad?
Real art is about the painter/artist and subject. AI means, Absolutely Idiotic. AI art is cold and heartless nevertheless to say fake. Each artist has his own unique signature in their endeavor.
I tried AI art and got rid of it. Simply put, it can't do hands. It mashes up different forms of art and does abstract intricate art well, but has no soul. It will be a useful tool in the future, but it really won't replace art.
John Madden football video games have not replaced football.
Art is something that cannot be recreated. Any form of art, fine art, writing, music or anything..in the case of fine art, if someone recreates something, rather beautiful, it may be a great draftsmanship or copy but not art. So, I don't call anybody an artist if he or she takes a photo reference and copies that thing in a beautiful manner. Obviously, any good image creation demands years of practice, lots of hard work, and perhaps sacrifices, but that's not art.
It is horror movie, but with "consent" of victims. No, art is not just process, metaphysics, etc. It is also result, that distinguish us. It is work and livelihood. That stands for any human skill, talent, effort. This is so wrong on so many levels, just think of the way they collected data for this.. unethical, illigal, etc...
I personally think that art in general will become less meaningful because of AI art.
I personally do not believe it should be considered art at all. It is nothing but a computer program, input= output. It completely lacks human creativity and emotion that comes with it. Only God knows where this go.
Who knows, someday a non artist like me connected to technology by wire and my brain and hands can perform wonders to my delight giving me tremendous satisfaction and experience probably more than a real artist could have, ridiculing the entire artist community!
You seem to be totally oblivious to how AI works.