Interesting that the PCI-e lanes limitation got overlooked in AMD's briefing, that's important info. Looking forward to AMD fully fulfilling their promise on 'fusion'.
They already have on the server side. They beat NVIDIA with the MI300X. Just look at a video on it. Also, Zen 6 look like the generation with huge leaps on the fusion front.
We need an "8800G3D" with 16 graphics cores and 3D v-cache. Never gonna happen, but I'd buy it. I love AMD's APUs and SFF builds, but the 8700G needs to come down in price like the 5700G has. Currently you can get a cheaper CPU and discrete GPU that gets double the FPS for less money.
And you will put settings at least to medium up to ultra while if you use 8700g it will be at low. Right now in my country the price of new 8700g is around the same as new 5600 + rx 6600 which I use and run bg3 80 fps ultra settings.
Exactly what I thought. Part of the v-cache could be used as "infinity cache" by the graphics cores. And TDP - up to 150 W I'm fine - let the GPU work well. Also why the GPU cores should consume PCI-E lanes ? Let them connect internally via infinity fabric or how they call it.
That would be insane but they sacrifice the 3D V-cache to fit the GPU, I mean it does a lot of sense to put more cache into because you have a 128 bit bus memory which needs to feed the 8 cores and 16 threads of the CPU and the whole iGPU but we can have everything
The lack of PCIe lanes is going to come back to bite them on these. Only use case for these is ultra small form factors but at the same time the NUCs with these in are going to be sick
As its still very fast PCIe not PCie 2 or 3 I don't think its actually going to be too bad - the motherboard can (and probably does) have a PCIe switch built in that will let you still get some really high performance from many devices - as almost everything PCIe device wise a normal end user buying this sort of CPU might want isn't going to saturate even 2 lanes of PCie 4. I do agree more would have been very nice, though for me more important is the NUMA stuff going on in the CPU - small form factor with potent onboard graphics and PCIe options sounds like a dream for many virtualisation and homelab type enthusiast, and at a low TDP too - though I'd love to have seen the labs provide power draw under that gaming load...
@@foldionepapyrus3441no, motherboards don’t have it. PCIe switches are expensive and hardly used in motherboards. PCIe Lane allocation is mostly static, even on the 8700G two M.2 Slots will not work on most AM5 boards
Yeah, for someone who start out and preparing to build new DDR5 generation, I prefer the 8600G. There is too many GPU out there that gets my attention, and there might more of them in the 3rd Q 2024. I'm just gonna wait and see some nice stuff released soon. 8600G is the most make sense for this use. Still better integrated GPU than 5700X, so my waiting period will filled with proper present day games.
Am helping a neighbor kid do his first build right now. He's cash strapped so we're doing 8600G build and then he'll be able to upgrade whatever he wants in the future.
Where this CPU/APU will really shine are small HTPC builds that only have room for motherboard & low profile CPU cooler & external laptop PSU. Also, I would be in interested seeing some graphs on how performance per watt (power efficiency) does look with this APU vs equivalent CPU & GPU - cuz It should be amazing.
PC the size of the PS4 at price of a PS5. Even with $229 8600G, you would still need a case, power supply, mobo, ram, and storage. In two years this will make a great ebay buy, but not right now.
As someone who was in PC retail, this is fantastic! Being able to sell a decent starter PC to someone now for like $700-$800 without compromising on important components like ram, psu, ssd that can do regular tasks and play most games is excellent. Then the same customer (let’s say a teenager with their first job, or a kid who wanted a pc for Christmas) can come right back in 6 months when they’ve got $300-$400 saved up for a solid dedicated gpu that will just pop right in! I’ve seen too many people go for the i3/last years i5 with barely adequate ram and storage (often a worse value) just so they can squeeze the cheapest $200 gpu we had into the budget.
that, but also with these already hitting 1080p low, and how big of a performance bump zen 5 is supposed to be, next gen will probably hit 1080p medium for most games, then zen 6 possibly being on the AM 5 socket still will likely hit 1080p high/1440 low, so you have an upgrade path even without a dedicated gpu. get a tiny case and youve got an upgradable gaming pc your kid can throw in their bag and game with friends after school, a barely noticeable media/steamlink machine for your living room, a functional gaming machine that can be chucked in a suitcase for travel gaming on trips, etc.
Its all cool and dandy, till you see some benchmarks. i3 CPU with even store bought cheapo GPU eats those APU for breakfast for gaming. Saw results from 2 to as much as 3 times the FPS depending how "cheap" the GPU is. In my region the 8700G costs so much that 12100F+RX6600 both new cost like 50+ USD less, and RX7600 50- USD more. Sure 4C/8T i3 loses in productivity benchmarks, but those APUs are low cache low PCIe lanes to the point they actually are a hindrance for a proper GPU. And if my region prices are to be used, you could just change the i3 to some other "entry" level CPUs like 5600X that beat 8700G as a dGPU "driver". As such apart from LTT basically any other review I saw recommends a setup of a cheaper CPU+dGPU. The only use cases for those APUs its seems to be a extra small form factor builds, or if you care for power consumption a lot as CPU+dGPU alternatives probably eat more power as a whole platform than those APU would, but then that only matters if you assume you will never get a dGPU for the APU as with dGPU the comparison kinda gets moot. The only proper APU I see useful are the future ones that will have to like 40 CUs instead of barely 12, but they are also supposed to have 4+ channels for memory not just 2 like 5x00G/8x00Gs, cause the memory is the biggest bottle neck for iGPUs. Part I kinda don't see us getting a cheap specialized mobos to utilize those APUs in desktop format. Maybe in Threadripper line, but those aren't cheap. I personally was really interested in them (aka 8x00G APUs), as a sorta replacement for my old computer to save on power, but seeing double to even close to triple FPS on a i3+ new cheapo dGPU kinda insta cured me from that idea.
@Eversor86 all these fuckers in the comments going "just buy a bunch of outdated hardware for the same price, sure it'll be bigger, heavier, and eat more power, but FPS GO BRRRRRR". LOL, the point of these APUs is for people who don't need, or likely will never buy a dGPU, either for power, budget, space, or any number of other reasons. These chips and the ones that will come after are a boon to budget gamers that want decent AAA performance, good to great Indie performance, upgradability on a not dead platform, and the portability to unplug 2 cables and chuck it in a bag for hotel/travel gaming. Why people can't see that "just buying last gens lowest end hardware" isn't the point of these, is fucking beyond me, it's exceptionally easy to see what the intended use case is, if I wanted mid-high gaming performance I wouldn't even look at an APU, performance roughly a little better than an ROG Ally in games while still having plenty of power to do general tasks and a modern chipset for faster steam link use so I can game in my living room without hearing the jet that runs my games? Sign me the fuck up.
@@StretchDattass Yeah, part at that point if you already have a PC to use steam link with, you are probably better getting consoles like the one you mentioned. Also you exaggerate a bit with the need for cooling for an older CPU+dGPU alternative. And I agree with you about small factor without ever getting dGPU use cases for those APUs. Just added that I looked for an upgrade for me, to get a low power CPU that would let me keep my old as fuck GPU performance. Just the price of those APUs plus how not so good they are as a "driver" for dGPU that I could buy in future kinda stopped that idea for me.
@Eversor86 I never mentioned consoles, unless you're referring to the 8700G system as a console, which it very much isnt. I also never mentioned cooling, what I mentioned was power consumption, space, noise, etc, all of which are valid points because regardless of what dGPU you put in it a CPU+GPU combo will be. Igger,heavier, amd suck more power than a 65 watt APU. Also, if you're looking for an upgrade path that let's you keep your old gpu, the 8700G will be fine for the vast majority of older GPUs, it will drive a dGPU just fine, way better than a 12100f will with half the cores, and you'll be able to upgrade to a better APU in a year when Strix Point (zen 5 APUs) comes out and gives you 1080p mid-high gaming without the dGPU, then possibility an EVEN BETTER APU a year after that that'll probably hit 1080p high-1440p low. Zen 5 APUs are targeted 3060 performance for the Halo SKU, zen 6 will be a 15-30% uplift, then by zen 7 or 8 well have like 3080-3090 performance on these fucking things. Budget APU gaming machines are a genuine possibility now, especially if we actually get zen 5s Halo APU SKU as a socketable chip.
is it just me or is there a lot of echo in the studio when the vid starts out. I'm so used to sound being perfect on this channel that it stands out to me.
My point exactly. You have so many better options out there. I'd say AMD failed with this one pretty hard marketing it as an 'entry point' at 229$. You can get better CPU + dedicated GPU deals than this APU alone. I mean, it could be a great option at 80$, maybe 100$. But 229$? That's stretching it a bit too far.
@@Al3cr0zAr10 Well, you can buy an entire laptop for 300$~ with Ryzen 5 5500U/Vega 7 or similar spec laptop with Intel APU with Iris Xe for 350$~. Sure, Vega 7 isn't that good anymore, but Iris Xe is decent even today. And for NUCs (or NUC-type PC), you'd still have to buy RAM and storage. Besides, why would anyone other than businesses want buy a NUC? Then again, those bussinesses mostly run some specific yet very basic office / administrative applications. They won't need this much power. What's more, most of the bussinesses I've seen are running pretty old Xeons / Athlons / Phenoms bought from aliexpress with mobo integrated GPUS that are cheap as f***. Like, the entire PC would cost no more than 40-50$ and they are still reluctant to upgrade because 'if it ain't broke don't fix it'. Again, what's the point of this APU at this insane price point? That's a genuine question.
Noooo way! If i hadn't seen your review I would'nt have noticed the PCI-E shortcomings! I was so hyped about these chips I just skipped that part, because I thought the only downside was not having PCI-E gen 5 connectivity. You saved me.
Yeah thats a killer for me, i dont mind not having the latest PCIE. my GPU is a x16 4.0 card, so 5.0 isnt really a big deal. I was looking at these chips since im a bit of a heat and noise freak. im currently using a 5700g for its low power draw, but i really need lanes for my drives, since im a data hoarder, who loves NVME m.2 drives
My first computer was a 3570k, for 2 months I used the iGPU before gettign a 7870. The ability to buy a CPU with actual, decent gaming graphics, and upgrade later is huge. Especially for the younger generation who may not have a computer to start gaming on.
Yes, that was before the FM2 series and onward. AMD brought ATI just so they could produce APUs like Adreno for mobile platforms and the FM2 and now Ryzen APUs. These APUs will eventually become the standard and thanks to the mining tards all of these years the APUs have been better developed as people sought cheaper options.
I bought a 5600G just to be able to game and got a GPU later :) A really nice option to get a modern pc for cheaper and buy an actually good gpu when you can afford it.
@@garystinten9339 Great choice to be honest. It's the best bang for the buck for sure! Apparently even better than Ryzen 9 7950X3D which costs 1.5x more.
@@garystinten9339Yea EOL for AM5 might be good. It is hard to say though because AMD promised to 2025 and there isn't even a second CPU release on this platform yet and it barely has adoption.
@@garystinten9339 There won't be anything really to "wipe out" AM4 because the reality is that Zen4 is literally 15-20% faster. Outside of the 7800x3D; the 7700x for example isn't even really faster than a 5800x3D. So maybe if AM5 gets Zen6 or something and it is really actually that much of a difference that it matters... I can tell you that Zen1 and Zen2 parts are still totally adequate today for 90% of users. I personally have a high refresh gaming setup (240HZ OLED 1440p) w/ a 5800x3D in a x370 board w/ a 7900xtx... Going to a 7800x3D wouldn't really net me any more FPS in anything that I play. However it would cost me a ton of money. I also have a Threadripper 3960x system and the new 7000 series Threadrippers are so expensive that they really have to deliver like 200% of the performance in order for it to be justified for me to upgrade...
My immediate thought was: media PCs. Super small, behind the living room TV. Put a slim Linux distro on there with some emulators and it would be perfect to run older console games from the couch. And maybe make a dent in the older Steam titles I always keep meaning to get to xD
Damn impressive that Linus can guess FPS so accurately. Can we make a video where he keeps guessing FPS to test at what point he doesn't notice a difference anymore?
@@nielagi5029well it depends on the game, let’s say Minecraft for example, that 20 fps difference can actually be noticeable sense you move your camera a lot, however a game like god of war and what not it’s harder to notice sense everything isent all snappy, there’s a shit ton of animations that can make it nearly impossible to notice the difference.
@@tabeebrahman4843 You're tripping. AI isn't anywhere near that good yet. They're just using a different camera and mic setup, perhaps due to technical problems.
Linus sounds different because he lost his beard then the production and youtube sponsors paid a imitator with surgeries, like The Beatles and Paul... Or maybe he is a reptilian.
i see these CPUs being used as a stepping stone to gaming, cyberpunk on low at 30fps on an apu is nuts point blank, u get a capable chip and upgradability. pcie lanes will be worrisome especially x4 is wild maybe that's like complete entry level idk.
Yeah, the lack of PCIe lanes seems to kill the point of these chips. Maybe they are for business computers that don't need discrete graphics, idk why anyone planning to upgrade in the future would get one of these with such minimal PCIe.
@@bobbygetsbanned6049It will never matter that you're running a GPU at 8X on this CPU. Only the top tier GPUs even approach kinda sorta using all x16, and you'd need a X3D CPU to fully push them.
@@blkspade23 It's true that a lot of GPUs don't need the full 16x TODAY, but it's not even remotely close to true that you need an X3d CPU to max out a GPU at 1440p or 4k. The only time the CPU even matters is at 1080 where most games are already stupid high fps. The whole best gaming CPU war is literally one of the dumbest things to ever exist, look you got 340 FPS instead of 320! Who gives a shit??
If by any chance you're using the mobile TH-cam app, there's a settings option that makes the audio on a single level across the length of the video, I guess that might result in a processed sound.
Yes, it would’ve been nice if there was a full complement of PCIe lanes, but the impact is not as big as you might think. Four lanes PCIe 4.0 is still quite a bit of bandwidth. A test by PC Welt showed that with four lanes (8300G/8500G) a RTX 4090 will run at 94% of its potential, with eight lanes (8600G/8700G) 98%. That first figure may be slightly noticeable, the second one is within the margin of error.
Well as a budget gamer i love the fact AMD is continuing development on these hybrid chips. My 5600G has served well for a longtime considering i mainly play emulators
I imagine that if you were buying these chips as a gamer, or as a skint parent, with the intention to purchase a dedicated GPU down the line...you're doing that because you're on the budget end of the market and have no intention of buying something like a RTX 4090. Most modern budget AMD GPUs such as the 7600 only run at PCIe 4.0x8...So that wouldn't be a problem and would be a substantial upgrade. I've always loved AMD's APUs. They've always been a great Windows/Linux/Retro gaming option. Especially in the past few years. Where are the Athlons at????
I have the 8600G coming in today, can't wait to fire it up and see what it can do. I've combined it with DDR5 6400 Trident ram and an AsRock B-650m motherboard, should be all it needs to perform well. FINALLY AMD got it right with their APU's!
Finally got it right? Amd apus Have been able to run monitor titles at 720 medium and 1080P. Low end for over ten years... This is nothing special nor spectacular
@quantumleaper I'm not quite sure if the term stunk is what I would use to describe vega. PAUL from Paul's hardware formerly of newegg. TV way back in the day 10 plus years ago. Did a full view on A reasonable variety of a amd apu s
@@mikeymaiku No, I bought the APU since there were NO graphics cards unless you wanted to pay a scalper price. I wasn't going to pay 3X that's when you could even find one, I hate mining...
The regression in the amount of PCIe lanes sucks since the 4000G and 5000G APUs finally got the same amount PCIe lanes (be it Gen3 instead of Gen4) as the Ryzen 3000 and 5000 CPUs.
I was sold on this chip until the mention of the limited PCIe lanes. This would be great for a small NUC or Beelink type system, but if you eventually plan on adding a GPU later, the lack of lanes is kind of a deal-breaker.
how is it possible that they acknowledge that you can get as good as up to rx 6600 gpu but then only use the same as AMD's contrived marketing example expensive cpu paired with gtx 1650 build in their benchmarks
Because he literally said that of course that may be better and will surely outperform the new chips, but then you would be in a dead platform, so for the comparisons, he grabbed the newest platforms available and the 5600G because is the direct predecessor.
@@MrCharlieBros no? because 12400f is on the same socket as 13400f and in fact has the same performance in nearly everything (the 4 ecores dont really do much) even when paired with ddr5 b760 mobo and ddr5 ram, and can still afford rx 6600xt in the same total price as 8700g+cheap b650+decent cl32 kit 32gb ddr5
AMDs iGPU is a game changer for ultrabooks. I went with AMD after years on Intel. My ultrabook has an 8 core Ryzen 7 with the 680M and I can play new games at 1080p with mostly 60FPS (of course with mixed settings). The machine has 32GB DDR5 RAM so I did allocate 4GB to the iGPU and I love the experience so far.
@@malik-mahdi There are only 2 settings in AMD Adrenaline: Productivity or Gaming. By default it came with productivity and it only used 512MB from the RAM. I switched it to Gaming and then it went straight to 4GB.
When I was in high school I built my first system (2008) with a hard $800 limit. I got a solid cpu (e6750) with a large-ish power supply but skimped with an 8600 GT, knowing I could then spend however many months saving up for a really nice card (ended up with a 9800GTX+) and complete my build. If I had access to chips like this back then it would've made a perfect upgrade path for such a strict budget without sacrificing the end build.
I did the PC of Theseus thing with my 2020 build! Worked out pretty well for me I think. I started out with an R5 3400G/RX580/B450 and have upgraded piece by piece over the last nearly 4 years to now have a 5800X/6650XT/B550 buying whatever parts were best value when an upgrade was warranted. At this point the only original part is the case! Next upgrade planned is a 6800 or 6900 whenever I can find one for super cheap to move up to a higher resolution monitor (currently running 1080p 144fps).
Welp, I've been using the 2200G for years now. It is overclocked to limits and runs "my" games perfectly well! That includes Warframe, GTA 5, Just Cause, etc. Love to see more chips in this category :)
Important note: FSR on 1080p works like garbage. You won’t like 60 fps with it at all, not because of stutters, but incredibly bad visual artifacts. AMD should fix this
I think these make sense in the miniPC market. For so long that market has been kinda crippled in the GPU area. I can really see these being super useful for minipc's and ultra small Form factor builds.
There are mini pc's with a mobile gpu in them. Iirc the best you can get is one with a 6600m (roughly like a 3060 mobile). The newest ones have the 8700g cpu basically as well.
This (to me) is why intel made the Arc play--even if they don't end up super competitive in the dedicated graphics card space, they can't let themselves get outpaced by the dedicated graphics built into a ton of AMD chips. We can already see them moving toward that in the MSI handheld.
I can see this being a holy hero of office PCs. Able to drive large desktops and handle the full power of MS Excel, at a reasonable price? You can put this in a pretty small box, affix it under the desk, and have a nice office PC experience for a reasonale sum. It's not going to be the "expensive Xeon box" but it's going to be a hell of an office machine.
One thing I've always loved about AMD's apu lineup, is the ability to offload secondary monitors to the integrated graphics, while letting the main GPU do all the heavy lifting of game processing. It's just a darn shame they always cut these down somehow in a way where their full potential could be realized but never will be. Like with PCI lanes. I'm waiting for them to finally release a lineup that doesn't compromise in any regards in the slightest. As much L1, 2 and 3 cache as possible. All the PCI lanes capable of a threadripper. 7000 series or better igpu performance. 5ghz base clock speeds for the CPU. Heck, even put some HBM3+ memory on the chip as L4 cache. And make it ECC capable with server ram, not workstation. (2x4 rank instead of 2x8 rank for instance.) Sure, probably not happening for another 10 to 20 years... but a guy can dream, right?
Seriously considering the AMD Ryzen 7 8700G paired with a B650 Mobo and 32gb DDR5. Most likely enough for occasional gaming and potential for upgrades in the future.
Not having to worry about a GPU is definitely a huge perk and has some value in and of itself. Lower power consumption, smaller form factor, efficiency. There are definitely a lot of benefits, lets just hope they can scale up to better GPUs in the years to come.
This is actually so good that it eliminates the need for a GPU for any non AAA game. Very impressive. Every internet cafe, every MMO machine. All set with these. And yeah it sucks there isn't much of a GPU upgrade path, but these things are just useful for everything except AAA gaming. Want to play with AI, you can, want to run plex with hardware encoding, you can. It's so good, I think they would be amazing programmer workstation CPUs.
Talking about "PC of Theseus", I name my computers, and usually give it a new name when it gets all of its core components replaced. CPU, Motherboard, Graphics, maybe case. I'll bring components forward from an old build frequently, such as RAM, PSUs, drives, and sometimes cases as I'm able depending on what the new system calls for. My last rig "Ninetales" bucked this trend by going through some experimentation and went through a full rebuild while retaining the name. Though I ended up keeping the original CPU with a different motherboard, and the original motherboard went on to go into another system.
a note about the "Computer if Theseus" :-) when i build a computer my goal is to have as much upgradability as i can. In that case, unless AMD will change their paradigm and start changing the socket every 2-3 generations like Intel, using AM5 is a great idea. You know that you do not have to change the MB unless you need new abilities. Anyway, back to the "Computer if Theseus", you upgrade the pc in turns. For example, i bought a new computer with 2.5" ssd's. Over the last 2 years i have been upgrading it to a fully M.2 drives. Then, i upgraded the drives to the best PCIE4 i could buy (Samsung 980 pro) at a good price. I always looking for a good deals and if i see one and need the upgrade, then i do it. Is it the same PC at the end? no but 1. there is no end and 2. i keep the OS so it is the same PC?
What they need is an option in the BIOS to disable the onboard GPU to open back up those PCIe lanes (assuming that's part of the reason they have fewer), and then they have the perfect chip
Bought one of these for an office PC I'm building for a client, since it will be a small form factor PC that needs to have some graphics capability, just in case. I'm honestly excited to see what the integrated GPU can do, it's possibly a big stepping stone into the future of computer hardware.
I bought an 8700G day one and its been fine. I like my new sub 3L PC. I know it's not the most pragmatic or value oriented part but, having a fully custom built PC about the size of an Xbox Series S is SICK.
These are super cool but personally I think it would make a lot of sense to have the radeon 780M in an entry level CPU as well because that would be a really nice balanced combo for gaming
1:52 Dude: 2400G, 4700G, Ryzen 6000 was laptop only, and now 8700G is... Oh wait I see what you mean, there has always been a G to along with the regular CPUs of the same generation. This is weird, basing a new thousand off integrated graphics as a factor, I wonder if that'll be consistent for AM5 moving forward. I mean graphics is important and AMD kinda rules on both, so why not CPU 1 year, and APU the next?
It's weird that integrated GPUs now have teraflops of compute power, which was high end graphic card territory not that long ago, and supercomputer territory not that long before that.
Deffo amd needs to up their laptops cache they'd smack intel in laptop gaming, theh should also add a feature where most the cache can be powered off when laptop is idle and low usage
I would love to see you guys slap a rtx 4090 to one of these chips and see how much performance leaves on the table if someone decides to upgrade after few years.
PC of Theseus still applies, when you can dump this CPU for something better in socket 3 years from now. The Ryzen 7 2700 wasn't the final form for my AM4 board.
Discoverd the magic of an apu with the 3200g, i couldnt affort a lot and needed a new pc, and at the time WoW classic just came out so it was perfect for a low end build, was right before covid, and i could play a bunch of games with it, about a year after i bought a used 1070 and been rocking that ever since, and even am able to play VR games, sure maybe its not the highest quality in the world, but its been a great way to step into pc gaming again, got to beat elden ring with the added 1070 aswell in 1440p. Great little budget system.
bruh u should upgrade ur cpu even just a ryzen 5 3600 will give you the best 1070 gaming experience (anything over this and the gpu will start bottlenecking )
@@malik-mahdi Ow i definetly will, but atm im to broke to afford anything extra, i do agree with you though. I'm saving up for a new system and turning my 3200g into a NAS. Thanks for the tip though, apreciate it!
bruh ur not the only broke here my ambitions are waaaaay higher than what my pocket can afford i want a 700$ gaming pc while i cant even afford a case @@Hirooshii1
I like the idea that I could build a nice HTPC with the ability to run some games on the thing and make it super small. My kids and I play multiplayer games on the tv all the time and having that ability to do so for a decent price and footprint is very appealing.
I have not checked but nobody mentioned AV1 encoding for these chips. That's still a dedicated GPU feature that probably takes too much die space. Otherwise, yeah, they would kick budd!
Look at that majestic beard I sure hope nothing happens to it.
Rip, Linus lost his puberty.
I heard Linus was worried that the beard's weight dragged his head down by a couple of .01 inches, and at his size every little bit counts.
New CEO said beards are unprofessional.
too late
aaaaand it's gone
That Cyberpunk FPS is not that far behind the RX 580 I used until a few months back. But that thing pulled 180 W. Pretty spectacular.
and in this igpu you can enable ray tracing
What a time to be alive
and the the rx 480 launched 8 years ago
Interesting that the PCI-e lanes limitation got overlooked in AMD's briefing, that's important info. Looking forward to AMD fully fulfilling their promise on 'fusion'.
They already have on the server side. They beat NVIDIA with the MI300X. Just look at a video on it.
Also, Zen 6 look like the generation with huge leaps on the fusion front.
Being a broke amd fanboy finally paid off
Hey am I trippin or did Linus just grow his beard back overnight
yeah his beard is like harry potter's hair
The video was filmed before that lmao 🤣
They have edit these. Plus they put them out at slower pace so the staff has time since... the incidence.
Clearly ai
Remember that the video was probably recorded over a week ago
We need an "8800G3D" with 16 graphics cores and 3D v-cache. Never gonna happen, but I'd buy it. I love AMD's APUs and SFF builds, but the 8700G needs to come down in price like the 5700G has. Currently you can get a cheaper CPU and discrete GPU that gets double the FPS for less money.
And you will put settings at least to medium up to ultra while if you use 8700g it will be at low. Right now in my country the price of new 8700g is around the same as new 5600 + rx 6600 which I use and run bg3 80 fps ultra settings.
Agreed
Exactly what I thought. Part of the v-cache could be used as "infinity cache" by the graphics cores. And TDP - up to 150 W I'm fine - let the GPU work well. Also why the GPU cores should consume PCI-E lanes ? Let them connect internally via infinity fabric or how they call it.
@@angelg3986infinity fabric is physically based on PCIe so...
That would be insane but they sacrifice the 3D V-cache to fit the GPU, I mean it does a lot of sense to put more cache into because you have a 128 bit bus memory which needs to feed the 8 cores and 16 threads of the CPU and the whole iGPU but we can have everything
The lack of PCIe lanes is going to come back to bite them on these. Only use case for these is ultra small form factors but at the same time the NUCs with these in are going to be sick
AMD has been doing this for like all of their entry level stuff, it's terrible. 6400 only has x4 lanes which makes it terrible for older systems
Well this is the same chip that going to laptop, only packaged as desktop. PCIE 5.0 should be next gen also so prob not.
@@maou5025 the chip doesn't support PCIE 5.0
As its still very fast PCIe not PCie 2 or 3 I don't think its actually going to be too bad - the motherboard can (and probably does) have a PCIe switch built in that will let you still get some really high performance from many devices - as almost everything PCIe device wise a normal end user buying this sort of CPU might want isn't going to saturate even 2 lanes of PCie 4.
I do agree more would have been very nice, though for me more important is the NUMA stuff going on in the CPU - small form factor with potent onboard graphics and PCIe options sounds like a dream for many virtualisation and homelab type enthusiast, and at a low TDP too - though I'd love to have seen the labs provide power draw under that gaming load...
@@foldionepapyrus3441no, motherboards don’t have it. PCIe switches are expensive and hardly used in motherboards.
PCIe Lane allocation is mostly static, even on the 8700G two M.2 Slots will not work on most AM5 boards
Linus is my age and I remember getting my first APU and playing CS and having such a great time
If you are just starting you’ll have so much fun.
CS or C:S?
Yeah, for someone who start out and preparing to build new DDR5 generation, I prefer the 8600G.
There is too many GPU out there that gets my attention, and there might more of them in the 3rd Q 2024. I'm just gonna wait and see some nice stuff released soon.
8600G is the most make sense for this use. Still better integrated GPU than 5700X, so my waiting period will filled with proper present day games.
Am helping a neighbor kid do his first build right now. He's cash strapped so we're doing 8600G build and then he'll be able to upgrade whatever he wants in the future.
Well, it wasn't filmed today or yesterday afternoon :P
We got the OG derpy Linus back yay!
Where this CPU/APU will really shine are small HTPC builds that only have room for motherboard & low profile CPU cooler & external laptop PSU. Also, I would be in interested seeing some graphs on how performance per watt (power efficiency) does look with this APU vs equivalent CPU & GPU - cuz It should be amazing.
These Ryzen APUs are in Nvidia 1050 territory and climbing.
The audio feels really cooked atm, but yknow having a pc the size of like a ps4 is wild.
Yes
It seems echoey
yeah! I'm feeling the same@@Aquaboom123
yeah, probably a backup microphone on the camera or something
@@DrWurzeli if anything, it's probably a noise or echo removal tool that did it.
PC the size of the PS4 at price of a PS5. Even with $229 8600G, you would still need a case, power supply, mobo, ram, and storage. In two years this will make a great ebay buy, but not right now.
Linus with paper printouts. Nice.
Anyways, feels natural than staring at blank space ahead on the teleprompter
As someone who was in PC retail, this is fantastic! Being able to sell a decent starter PC to someone now for like $700-$800 without compromising on important components like ram, psu, ssd that can do regular tasks and play most games is excellent. Then the same customer (let’s say a teenager with their first job, or a kid who wanted a pc for Christmas) can come right back in 6 months when they’ve got $300-$400 saved up for a solid dedicated gpu that will just pop right in! I’ve seen too many people go for the i3/last years i5 with barely adequate ram and storage (often a worse value) just so they can squeeze the cheapest $200 gpu we had into the budget.
that, but also with these already hitting 1080p low, and how big of a performance bump zen 5 is supposed to be, next gen will probably hit 1080p medium for most games, then zen 6 possibly being on the AM 5 socket still will likely hit 1080p high/1440 low, so you have an upgrade path even without a dedicated gpu. get a tiny case and youve got an upgradable gaming pc your kid can throw in their bag and game with friends after school, a barely noticeable media/steamlink machine for your living room, a functional gaming machine that can be chucked in a suitcase for travel gaming on trips, etc.
Its all cool and dandy, till you see some benchmarks. i3 CPU with even store bought cheapo GPU eats those APU for breakfast for gaming. Saw results from 2 to as much as 3 times the FPS depending how "cheap" the GPU is. In my region the 8700G costs so much that 12100F+RX6600 both new cost like 50+ USD less, and RX7600 50- USD more. Sure 4C/8T i3 loses in productivity benchmarks, but those APUs are low cache low PCIe lanes to the point they actually are a hindrance for a proper GPU. And if my region prices are to be used, you could just change the i3 to some other "entry" level CPUs like 5600X that beat 8700G as a dGPU "driver". As such apart from LTT basically any other review I saw recommends a setup of a cheaper CPU+dGPU.
The only use cases for those APUs its seems to be a extra small form factor builds, or if you care for power consumption a lot as CPU+dGPU alternatives probably eat more power as a whole platform than those APU would, but then that only matters if you assume you will never get a dGPU for the APU as with dGPU the comparison kinda gets moot.
The only proper APU I see useful are the future ones that will have to like 40 CUs instead of barely 12, but they are also supposed to have 4+ channels for memory not just 2 like 5x00G/8x00Gs, cause the memory is the biggest bottle neck for iGPUs. Part I kinda don't see us getting a cheap specialized mobos to utilize those APUs in desktop format. Maybe in Threadripper line, but those aren't cheap.
I personally was really interested in them (aka 8x00G APUs), as a sorta replacement for my old computer to save on power, but seeing double to even close to triple FPS on a i3+ new cheapo dGPU kinda insta cured me from that idea.
@Eversor86 all these fuckers in the comments going "just buy a bunch of outdated hardware for the same price, sure it'll be bigger, heavier, and eat more power, but FPS GO BRRRRRR". LOL, the point of these APUs is for people who don't need, or likely will never buy a dGPU, either for power, budget, space, or any number of other reasons. These chips and the ones that will come after are a boon to budget gamers that want decent AAA performance, good to great Indie performance, upgradability on a not dead platform, and the portability to unplug 2 cables and chuck it in a bag for hotel/travel gaming. Why people can't see that "just buying last gens lowest end hardware" isn't the point of these, is fucking beyond me, it's exceptionally easy to see what the intended use case is, if I wanted mid-high gaming performance I wouldn't even look at an APU, performance roughly a little better than an ROG Ally in games while still having plenty of power to do general tasks and a modern chipset for faster steam link use so I can game in my living room without hearing the jet that runs my games? Sign me the fuck up.
@@StretchDattass Yeah, part at that point if you already have a PC to use steam link with, you are probably better getting consoles like the one you mentioned. Also you exaggerate a bit with the need for cooling for an older CPU+dGPU alternative.
And I agree with you about small factor without ever getting dGPU use cases for those APUs. Just added that I looked for an upgrade for me, to get a low power CPU that would let me keep my old as fuck GPU performance. Just the price of those APUs plus how not so good they are as a "driver" for dGPU that I could buy in future kinda stopped that idea for me.
@Eversor86 I never mentioned consoles, unless you're referring to the 8700G system as a console, which it very much isnt. I also never mentioned cooling, what I mentioned was power consumption, space, noise, etc, all of which are valid points because regardless of what dGPU you put in it a CPU+GPU combo will be. Igger,heavier, amd suck more power than a 65 watt APU.
Also, if you're looking for an upgrade path that let's you keep your old gpu, the 8700G will be fine for the vast majority of older GPUs, it will drive a dGPU just fine, way better than a 12100f will with half the cores, and you'll be able to upgrade to a better APU in a year when Strix Point (zen 5 APUs) comes out and gives you 1080p mid-high gaming without the dGPU, then possibility an EVEN BETTER APU a year after that that'll probably hit 1080p high-1440p low. Zen 5 APUs are targeted 3060 performance for the Halo SKU, zen 6 will be a 15-30% uplift, then by zen 7 or 8 well have like 3080-3090 performance on these fucking things. Budget APU gaming machines are a genuine possibility now, especially if we actually get zen 5s Halo APU SKU as a socketable chip.
is it just me or is there a lot of echo in the studio when the vid starts out. I'm so used to sound being perfect on this channel that it stands out to me.
yeah i think something happened while processing on TH-cam. just feels way off their usual videos
I heard it
There is echo cancaltion going on or some other denoising thing. Its very bad sounding whatever they decided to do.
Yeah there is certainly echo throughout the entire video. You might not notice it on speakers but on headphones I can hear it every time he speaks .
and i thought something was wrong with my speakers.
For the price of a 8700G in the UK you can buy a new 13100F & a new RX 6600 or new 12400F + Used RX 6600.
Fair enough, but you'd have to buy a new motherboard to upgrade the cpu so I think it isn't entirely unreasonable
My point exactly. You have so many better options out there. I'd say AMD failed with this one pretty hard marketing it as an 'entry point' at 229$.
You can get better CPU + dedicated GPU deals than this APU alone. I mean, it could be a great option at 80$, maybe 100$. But 229$? That's stretching it a bit too far.
@@Al3cr0zAr10 Well, you can buy an entire laptop for 300$~ with Ryzen 5 5500U/Vega 7 or similar spec laptop with Intel APU with Iris Xe for 350$~. Sure, Vega 7 isn't that good anymore, but Iris Xe is decent even today.
And for NUCs (or NUC-type PC), you'd still have to buy RAM and storage. Besides, why would anyone other than businesses want buy a NUC? Then again, those bussinesses mostly run some specific yet very basic office / administrative applications. They won't need this much power. What's more, most of the bussinesses I've seen are running pretty old Xeons / Athlons / Phenoms bought from aliexpress with mobo integrated GPUS that are cheap as f***. Like, the entire PC would cost no more than 40-50$ and they are still reluctant to upgrade because 'if it ain't broke don't fix it'. Again, what's the point of this APU at this insane price point? That's a genuine question.
Well you can upgrade to a CPU of the same generation.@@skycubix8943
@@skycubix8943 Nope, he could buy 13400F, 13600KF etc ... if he wants to upgrade CPU.
Noooo way! If i hadn't seen your review I would'nt have noticed the PCI-E shortcomings! I was so hyped about these chips I just skipped that part, because I thought the only downside was not having PCI-E gen 5 connectivity. You saved me.
Man.. Grow up. It's not like it's even such a big issue for this specific SKU
@@PhyrexJman grow up, he has his preference and needs. If it does not meet his requirements its useless to him.
Yeah thats a killer for me, i dont mind not having the latest PCIE. my GPU is a x16 4.0 card, so 5.0 isnt really a big deal. I was looking at these chips since im a bit of a heat and noise freak. im currently using a 5700g for its low power draw, but i really need lanes for my drives, since im a data hoarder, who loves NVME m.2 drives
This is pretty par for the course for AMD apus. Last gen(5700g) was also 1 generation of pci-e behind.
@@justanobody4983if he needed performance with the need for extra lanes for a beefy gfx he wouldn't be shopping in this price bracket
My first computer was a 3570k, for 2 months I used the iGPU before gettign a 7870.
The ability to buy a CPU with actual, decent gaming graphics, and upgrade later is huge. Especially for the younger generation who may not have a computer to start gaming on.
I remember when integrated graphics meant built into the chipset on the Motherboard kind of like how laptops with 'discrete' gpu's often are.
Yes, that was before the FM2 series and onward. AMD brought ATI just so they could produce APUs like Adreno for mobile platforms and the FM2 and now Ryzen APUs. These APUs will eventually become the standard and thanks to the mining tards all of these years the APUs have been better developed as people sought cheaper options.
Also with smaller die processeses, there was room to move the gpu onto the cpu. Br8nging them closer improves speed and power efficiency.
I bought a 5600G just to be able to game and got a GPU later :) A really nice option to get a modern pc for cheaper and buy an actually good gpu when you can afford it.
And you get more screen outputs for that financial broker style layout
@@garystinten9339 Great choice to be honest. It's the best bang for the buck for sure! Apparently even better than Ryzen 9 7950X3D which costs 1.5x more.
@@garystinten9339 That is hard, the AM5 platform is just way too expensive. AM4 is still a much better value.
@@garystinten9339Yea EOL for AM5 might be good. It is hard to say though because AMD promised to 2025 and there isn't even a second CPU release on this platform yet and it barely has adoption.
@@garystinten9339 There won't be anything really to "wipe out" AM4 because the reality is that Zen4 is literally 15-20% faster. Outside of the 7800x3D; the 7700x for example isn't even really faster than a 5800x3D. So maybe if AM5 gets Zen6 or something and it is really actually that much of a difference that it matters... I can tell you that Zen1 and Zen2 parts are still totally adequate today for 90% of users. I personally have a high refresh gaming setup (240HZ OLED 1440p) w/ a 5800x3D in a x370 board w/ a 7900xtx... Going to a 7800x3D wouldn't really net me any more FPS in anything that I play. However it would cost me a ton of money.
I also have a Threadripper 3960x system and the new 7000 series Threadrippers are so expensive that they really have to deliver like 200% of the performance in order for it to be justified for me to upgrade...
great for compact builds, htpcs, work computers, etc. imo.
My HTPC is still running a bulldozer apu and I'm loving it
My immediate thought was: media PCs. Super small, behind the living room TV. Put a slim Linux distro on there with some emulators and it would be perfect to run older console games from the couch. And maybe make a dent in the older Steam titles I always keep meaning to get to xD
Damn impressive that Linus can guess FPS so accurately.
Can we make a video where he keeps guessing FPS to test at what point he doesn't notice a difference anymore?
everyone who has played more than a 1 pc game can guess the fps..
Anything below let's say 90 FPS is quite easy to guess, especially below 50.
@@QuickThrills1337 No way you can tell the difference between 100 fps and 120
@@QuickThrills1337that’s cap. Yeah I can tell from 100 to 60 to 30 but I’m not picking a 40 or an 80 specifically
@@nielagi5029well it depends on the game, let’s say Minecraft for example, that 20 fps difference can actually be noticeable sense you move your camera a lot, however a game like god of war and what not it’s harder to notice sense everything isent all snappy, there’s a shit ton of animations that can make it nearly impossible to notice the difference.
Does the audio sound a bit weird to anyone else?
@@tabeebrahman4843 You're tripping. AI isn't anywhere near that good yet. They're just using a different camera and mic setup, perhaps due to technical problems.
A touch of echo?
@@ThePerfectToasterSetting"Trippin"? 1993 what's their slang back 😂
The audio sounds hollow like someone used an aggressive noise filter on the whole video's voice track.
Linus sounds different because he lost his beard then the production and youtube sponsors paid a imitator with surgeries, like The Beatles and Paul... Or maybe he is a reptilian.
ikr I noticed it within 2 seconds of watching the video.
@@creaper3538 It took me a while. I thought I had ambient sound activated on my earphones. Usually their audio is pretty good so I was surprised.
II think ShortCircuit is really great for these quick CPU and GPU videos. THey honestly don't need to be a long 30-40m essays.
i see these CPUs being used as a stepping stone to gaming, cyberpunk on low at 30fps on an apu is nuts point blank, u get a capable chip and upgradability. pcie lanes will be worrisome especially x4 is wild maybe that's like complete entry level idk.
Yeah, the lack of PCIe lanes seems to kill the point of these chips. Maybe they are for business computers that don't need discrete graphics, idk why anyone planning to upgrade in the future would get one of these with such minimal PCIe.
@@bobbygetsbanned6049It will never matter that you're running a GPU at 8X on this CPU. Only the top tier GPUs even approach kinda sorta using all x16, and you'd need a X3D CPU to fully push them.
@@blkspade23 It's true that a lot of GPUs don't need the full 16x TODAY, but it's not even remotely close to true that you need an X3d CPU to max out a GPU at 1440p or 4k. The only time the CPU even matters is at 1080 where most games are already stupid high fps. The whole best gaming CPU war is literally one of the dumbest things to ever exist, look you got 340 FPS instead of 320! Who gives a shit??
Beard my beloved rest in peace
I remember my last update at the beginning of corona.... you couldn't get graphics and this wonderful APUs safed my work and fun.
Love them since then
Why does the audio sound really processed?
If by any chance you're using the mobile TH-cam app, there's a settings option that makes the audio on a single level across the length of the video, I guess that might result in a processed sound.
@@diaa_bouras Yeah, sounds fine here. Tad of an echo in their room, but totally acceptable.
sound pretty bad to me as well, like the room was not treated at all, and heavy noise reduction was applied.
@@diaa_bouras Was not using mobile. Sounds like they were trying to compensate a bad set for sound so they applied noise reduction in post.
Sounds fine on my end it’s got to be some form of setting
Yes, it would’ve been nice if there was a full complement of PCIe lanes, but the impact is not as big as you might think. Four lanes PCIe 4.0 is still quite a bit of bandwidth. A test by PC Welt showed that with four lanes (8300G/8500G) a RTX 4090 will run at 94% of its potential, with eight lanes (8600G/8700G) 98%. That first figure may be slightly noticeable, the second one is within the margin of error.
is this heavily edited backup audio
Well as a budget gamer i love the fact AMD is continuing development on these hybrid chips. My 5600G has served well for a longtime considering i mainly play emulators
No mention of the 256GB max RAM support? That's a first for a desktop class CPU, right?
I imagine that if you were buying these chips as a gamer, or as a skint parent, with the intention to purchase a dedicated GPU down the line...you're doing that because you're on the budget end of the market and have no intention of buying something like a RTX 4090. Most modern budget AMD GPUs such as the 7600 only run at PCIe 4.0x8...So that wouldn't be a problem and would be a substantial upgrade.
I've always loved AMD's APUs. They've always been a great Windows/Linux/Retro gaming option. Especially in the past few years. Where are the Athlons at????
I have the 8600G coming in today, can't wait to fire it up and see what it can do. I've combined it with DDR5 6400 Trident ram and an AsRock B-650m motherboard, should be all it needs to perform well. FINALLY AMD got it right with their APU's!
Finally got it right?
Amd apus Have been able to run monitor titles at 720 medium and 1080P. Low end for over ten years... This is nothing special nor spectacular
Vega stunk for APUs, I am glad they are using some modern now in the APU. I was glad when I got my graphics card for my 3200G.
@@quantumleaper so you played right into thier marketing? well played
@quantumleaper I'm not quite sure if the term stunk is what I would use to describe vega.
PAUL from Paul's hardware formerly of newegg. TV way back in the day 10 plus years ago. Did a full view on A reasonable variety of a amd apu s
@@mikeymaiku No, I bought the APU since there were NO graphics cards unless you wanted to pay a scalper price. I wasn't going to pay 3X that's when you could even find one, I hate mining...
The regression in the amount of PCIe lanes sucks since the 4000G and 5000G APUs finally got the same amount PCIe lanes (be it Gen3 instead of Gen4) as the Ryzen 3000 and 5000 CPUs.
Lack of lanes makes this DOA for me. I want something I can run on in between gpus
exactly. id rather hold on with 7600 igpu rather than 8 less pcie lanes
The Short Circuit light in the background - amazing.
Where's Anthony? Miss that guy!
Anthony is Emily since 8 months now and have chosen not to host videos until she feels comfortable with it. www.youtube.com/@emily-young
@@bgezal That's out of control...Yikes
I was sold on this chip until the mention of the limited PCIe lanes. This would be great for a small NUC or Beelink type system, but if you eventually plan on adding a GPU later, the lack of lanes is kind of a deal-breaker.
how is it possible that they acknowledge that you can get as good as up to rx 6600 gpu but then only use the same as AMD's contrived marketing example expensive cpu paired with gtx 1650 build in their benchmarks
probably because AMD claimed that 8000Gs are better that intel+nvidia combo for the same price. They didn't say anything about their own GPUs :D
Because he literally said that of course that may be better and will surely outperform the new chips, but then you would be in a dead platform, so for the comparisons, he grabbed the newest platforms available and the 5600G because is the direct predecessor.
@@MrCharlieBros no? because 12400f is on the same socket as 13400f and in fact has the same performance in nearly everything (the 4 ecores dont really do much) even when paired with ddr5 b760 mobo and ddr5 ram, and can still afford rx 6600xt in the same total price as 8700g+cheap b650+decent cl32 kit 32gb ddr5
AMDs iGPU is a game changer for ultrabooks. I went with AMD after years on Intel. My ultrabook has an 8 core Ryzen 7 with the 680M and I can play new games at 1080p with mostly 60FPS (of course with mixed settings). The machine has 32GB DDR5 RAM so I did allocate 4GB to the iGPU and I love the experience so far.
can i as whats the max ram u can allocate to it ? and at what point it stops giving noticeable performance change ?
@@malik-mahdi There are only 2 settings in AMD Adrenaline: Productivity or Gaming. By default it came with productivity and it only used 512MB from the RAM. I switched it to Gaming and then it went straight to 4GB.
so u cant do more or less than 4gb ? interresting since it means 24 to 32gb of ddr5 would be more than enought@@Nam3Iess
AMD is amazing! 🙏🏻
almost it still needs a price cut@@Jannickjay
0:44 it's ok to be short Linus... We still love you 😘
2:41 Looks like 8700G and 8600G Base clocks are the other way arround...
They are not; usually CPUs with less cores can have higher clocks with a similar or slightly lower TDP
When I was in high school I built my first system (2008) with a hard $800 limit. I got a solid cpu (e6750) with a large-ish power supply but skimped with an 8600 GT, knowing I could then spend however many months saving up for a really nice card (ended up with a 9800GTX+) and complete my build. If I had access to chips like this back then it would've made a perfect upgrade path for such a strict budget without sacrificing the end build.
Hello everyone
Hi!
I did the PC of Theseus thing with my 2020 build! Worked out pretty well for me I think. I started out with an R5 3400G/RX580/B450 and have upgraded piece by piece over the last nearly 4 years to now have a 5800X/6650XT/B550 buying whatever parts were best value when an upgrade was warranted. At this point the only original part is the case! Next upgrade planned is a 6800 or 6900 whenever I can find one for super cheap to move up to a higher resolution monitor (currently running 1080p 144fps).
Liking how you highlight the relevant row in the graphs! Now please add the price of those cpus to the row description for context
Welp, I've been using the 2200G for years now. It is overclocked to limits and runs "my" games perfectly well! That includes Warframe, GTA 5, Just Cause, etc. Love to see more chips in this category :)
Important note: FSR on 1080p works like garbage. You won’t like 60 fps with it at all, not because of stutters, but incredibly bad visual artifacts. AMD should fix this
No power and temp data? Didn't mention the STAPM issue?
I think these make sense in the miniPC market. For so long that market has been kinda crippled in the GPU area. I can really see these being super useful for minipc's and ultra small Form factor builds.
There are mini pc's with a mobile gpu in them. Iirc the best you can get is one with a 6600m (roughly like a 3060 mobile). The newest ones have the 8700g cpu basically as well.
Wow that Camera is so sharp on the intro I love it
Me: *browses TH-cam for PC tips*
*Linus appears*
Me: Everywhere I go I see his face.
This (to me) is why intel made the Arc play--even if they don't end up super competitive in the dedicated graphics card space, they can't let themselves get outpaced by the dedicated graphics built into a ton of AMD chips. We can already see them moving toward that in the MSI handheld.
One advantage of the 8000g cards with the integrated graphics is that they free the 16 lane PCIE slot to handle 4 NVME M.2 SSDs via an adaptor.
I can see this being a holy hero of office PCs. Able to drive large desktops and handle the full power of MS Excel, at a reasonable price?
You can put this in a pretty small box, affix it under the desk, and have a nice office PC experience for a reasonale sum.
It's not going to be the "expensive Xeon box" but it's going to be a hell of an office machine.
One thing I've always loved about AMD's apu lineup, is the ability to offload secondary monitors to the integrated graphics, while letting the main GPU do all the heavy lifting of game processing. It's just a darn shame they always cut these down somehow in a way where their full potential could be realized but never will be. Like with PCI lanes.
I'm waiting for them to finally release a lineup that doesn't compromise in any regards in the slightest. As much L1, 2 and 3 cache as possible. All the PCI lanes capable of a threadripper. 7000 series or better igpu performance. 5ghz base clock speeds for the CPU. Heck, even put some HBM3+ memory on the chip as L4 cache. And make it ECC capable with server ram, not workstation. (2x4 rank instead of 2x8 rank for instance.)
Sure, probably not happening for another 10 to 20 years... but a guy can dream, right?
Seriously considering the AMD Ryzen 7 8700G paired with a B650 Mobo and 32gb DDR5. Most likely enough for occasional gaming and potential for upgrades in the future.
Not having to worry about a GPU is definitely a huge perk and has some value in and of itself. Lower power consumption, smaller form factor, efficiency. There are definitely a lot of benefits, lets just hope they can scale up to better GPUs in the years to come.
I have the 5700G and that o-board gfx was about equivalent of my then-5+-year-old GTX970. Wasn't too bad. This looks better.
This is actually so good that it eliminates the need for a GPU for any non AAA game. Very impressive. Every internet cafe, every MMO machine. All set with these. And yeah it sucks there isn't much of a GPU upgrade path, but these things are just useful for everything except AAA gaming. Want to play with AI, you can, want to run plex with hardware encoding, you can.
It's so good, I think they would be amazing programmer workstation CPUs.
Small error. Graphic showed the 8600g at 100mhz faster base clock than the 8700g, which is correct, but Linus says the opposite.
Talking about "PC of Theseus", I name my computers, and usually give it a new name when it gets all of its core components replaced. CPU, Motherboard, Graphics, maybe case.
I'll bring components forward from an old build frequently, such as RAM, PSUs, drives, and sometimes cases as I'm able depending on what the new system calls for.
My last rig "Ninetales" bucked this trend by going through some experimentation and went through a full rebuild while retaining the name.
Though I ended up keeping the original CPU with a different motherboard, and the original motherboard went on to go into another system.
might wanna deverb that room reverb.... great video!!
a note about the "Computer if Theseus" :-) when i build a computer my goal is to have as much upgradability as i can. In that case, unless AMD will change their paradigm and start changing the socket every 2-3 generations like Intel, using AM5 is a great idea. You know that you do not have to change the MB unless you need new abilities. Anyway, back to the "Computer if Theseus", you upgrade the pc in turns. For example, i bought a new computer with 2.5" ssd's. Over the last 2 years i have been upgrading it to a fully M.2 drives. Then, i upgraded the drives to the best PCIE4 i could buy (Samsung 980 pro) at a good price. I always looking for a good deals and if i see one and need the upgrade, then i do it. Is it the same PC at the end? no but 1. there is no end and 2. i keep the OS so it is the same PC?
Great video, short, infomative and stright to the point.
They could make a 8-core X3D chip with much larger iGPU akin to current console APUs now that would be sick.
What they need is an option in the BIOS to disable the onboard GPU to open back up those PCIe lanes (assuming that's part of the reason they have fewer), and then they have the perfect chip
With the price of Nvidia cards constantly going up, we are here looking at the future of our pc gaming boys
That PCIe 8x/4x limitation is a total killer.
Seems like there's a lot of audio bouncing in this video... or is it just me?
I'm using this r5 8600g in 2d cad workstation.
Bought one of these for an office PC I'm building for a client, since it will be a small form factor PC that needs to have some graphics capability, just in case. I'm honestly excited to see what the integrated GPU can do, it's possibly a big stepping stone into the future of computer hardware.
I bought an 8700G day one and its been fine. I like my new sub 3L PC. I know it's not the most pragmatic or value oriented part but, having a fully custom built PC about the size of an Xbox Series S is SICK.
What case are you using? Does that 3L have internal or external PSU?
@@Jantcha A case called the HK05, uses a FlexATX PSU.
@@Sonic6293 Thanks! Looks pretty good might get one myself.
Loving the soundtracks.
These are super cool but personally I think it would make a lot of sense to have the radeon 780M in an entry level CPU as well because that would be a really nice balanced combo for gaming
Well, I’m in it for the low power, low heat, silent, small SFF, so I’m not part of the Linus upgrade philosophy. But it still feels made for me.
1:52 Dude: 2400G, 4700G, Ryzen 6000 was laptop only, and now 8700G is... Oh wait I see what you mean, there has always been a G to along with the regular CPUs of the same generation. This is weird, basing a new thousand off integrated graphics as a factor, I wonder if that'll be consistent for AM5 moving forward. I mean graphics is important and AMD kinda rules on both, so why not CPU 1 year, and APU the next?
It's weird that integrated GPUs now have teraflops of compute power, which was high end graphic card territory not that long ago, and supercomputer territory not that long before that.
they should make a trx40 apu. like only 8 cpu cores(maybe even a full 7800x3d in it) and all the gpu cores that they can fit into that thing
If only the 8000G was given 32MB L3 cache
like the 7000 series.
maybe it will be able to improve CPU performance.
Deffo amd needs to up their laptops cache they'd smack intel in laptop gaming, theh should also add a feature where most the cache can be powered off when laptop is idle and low usage
The scratches on Linus's hands tell me he's been building rigs.
Don't forget Linus you have about 500-600 MHz additional overhead to overclock the GPU cores of the APU.
I've got my 7950x from 2200-2725 24/7 stable.
They are priced too high. The 8600G is a valid option when paired with a cheap motherboard.
I would love to see you guys slap a rtx 4090 to one of these chips and see how much performance leaves on the table if someone decides to upgrade after few years.
Hopefully we get to see them in mini pc builds.
The Ryzen 10,000G Series is gonna ROCK on the AM6 platform!
Another thing about APUs, if ur new gpu hasnt arrived yet u have a backup
PC of Theseus still applies, when you can dump this CPU for something better in socket 3 years from now. The Ryzen 7 2700 wasn't the final form for my AM4 board.
Discoverd the magic of an apu with the 3200g, i couldnt affort a lot and needed a new pc, and at the time WoW classic just came out so it was perfect for a low end build, was right before covid, and i could play a bunch of games with it, about a year after i bought a used 1070 and been rocking that ever since, and even am able to play VR games, sure maybe its not the highest quality in the world, but its been a great way to step into pc gaming again, got to beat elden ring with the added 1070 aswell in 1440p.
Great little budget system.
bruh u should upgrade ur cpu even just a ryzen 5 3600 will give you the best 1070 gaming experience (anything over this and the gpu will start bottlenecking )
@@malik-mahdi Ow i definetly will, but atm im to broke to afford anything extra, i do agree with you though.
I'm saving up for a new system and turning my 3200g into a NAS.
Thanks for the tip though, apreciate it!
bruh ur not the only broke here my ambitions are waaaaay higher than what my pocket can afford i want a 700$ gaming pc while i cant even afford a case @@Hirooshii1
The lack of PCIe lanes is understandable due to the lanes being used for the onboard gpu
Doesn’t make it any better
@@lukas_ls no but you can't always get what you want no matter what your mom tells you lol
@@hibiscussocietynews8320 AMD could have done it better. Just increase lane count or find another solution
@@lukas_ls you're missing the point this isn't like some freeway where you can just add more lanes
@@hibiscussocietynews8320 it's not that hard
Small form factor pcs are going to be more appealing now.
I like the idea that I could build a nice HTPC with the ability to run some games on the thing and make it super small. My kids and I play multiplayer games on the tv all the time and having that ability to do so for a decent price and footprint is very appealing.
This is the first time I end up watching completely a video of yours.
If you're doing a 2 PC Gaming/Streaming setup, I think those 8600G/8700G would be perfect, especially if they have AV1 encoding!
I have not checked but nobody mentioned AV1 encoding for these chips. That's still a dedicated GPU feature that probably takes too much die space. Otherwise, yeah, they would kick budd!
linus looks soooo much nicer with this hairdo and beard, without a cap, casual shirt. really. linus was keeping his power level sealed before 2020
This is actually an amazing entry for gaming, in a couple of generations, I could even start putting pressure on Nvidia.
As long as I can get a motherboard with dual DP (normal or usbc) outs, I'll be happy to use one of these in my new development machine in a tiny case.
The igpu on the 8700G with fast rams goes like a 5500xt, not bad at all
I feel like the next step will be CPU + CPU + NPU + RAM all bolted onto the same chip. Apple has already set this trend with the M1.