In the New Testament, Jesus told his disciples that he had “other sheep which are not of this flock”. For years I wondered what that meant. The BOM made it all clear.
I love scripture centrals doctrinal analysis videos. They are the best around. I also disagree with where they think it all took place. And you know what, I still think they are great people on this channel! It is important to know where it took place, I think we’re going to find out how important it is soon, but it’s not good to angrily argue about it in TH-cam comments and especially not at church. I also think it’s important to realize that some of these comments are from bad actors. Not even members of our church. Hope everyone has a great day!
I love this perspective!!! We can love and respect those that have different opinions to us!!! Especially when they are our Brothers and Sisters in the church! Love this comment brotha!
@PaulRossi-kh4fn so it's helpful to know he translated it by the gift and power of God, not written by Joseph Smith. Translated! Just to clarify what you heard was inaccurate.
5:13 We have to believe the BoM is true. Why? The Mormon scholars cannot even provide a location for the stories. The story is completely anachronistic. The culture is a 19th century bent on an old world Bible story. It has nothing to do with everything we know about ancient American culture. Archeology, genetics, and anthropology all tells the story is false. What am I missing here? I suggest we all look to the God of the Old and New Testament and enter into the New Covenant saving relationship with Christ. Blessings.
Personally, I would love to see the places where the Book of Mormon events took place. These are the stories I grew up with. I would love to have a feel of what Nephi, Captain Moroni, Mormon and others were facing. But I think currently we simply don't know where exactly these things happened. The anti people said the Book of Mormon was fake but I know the Book of Mormon sites and artifacts are still out there to be found. No matter how little remain, or how difficult to identify them after two millennia, they are still out there. God knows how difficult they are to be found. They will be found by someone who is led by inspirations, someone who follows the counsels of the prophets, someone who is humble, someone with a pure intention, someone who would not use them to set himself or herself to be a light. When the time is met to reveal them, the Lord will reveal them.
Joseph Smith was commanded by God to send missionaries to THE Lamanites, he did, and sent them to: Missouri, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio and western New York, repeatedly, and personally testified to the Natives in those areas that they are THE descendants of the Book of Mormon Lamanites. Joseph testified of walking over the mounds of the Nephites, in Ohio, IN and IL, where the same mounds still exist today. Joseph testified of the ancient city of Manti, in N.E. Missouri, and Zarahemla, on the eastern edge of Iowa, across from Nauvoo. I served my mission in parts of these areas and have walked on the mounds myself. These are THE lands of the Nephites, you can go there today.
The Book of Mormon itself provides the best answer to the geography question: 2 Nephi 10:10-12 (one of many examples) 10 But behold, this land, said God, shall be a land of thine inheritance, and the Gentiles shall be blessed upon the land. 11 And this land shall be a land of liberty unto the Gentiles, and there shall be no kings upon the land, who shall raise up unto the Gentiles. 12 And I will fortify this land against all other nations.
@@loudogg73is correct. Spain ruled vast areas of the Americas for hundreds of years, yet the king or queen of Spain never set foot in the Western Hemisphere.
Hopefully everyone commenting can chose to be kind; it makes no sense to fight with our Brothers and Sisters in the church... individuals we should be united with. I love Mezo and Heartland believers haha 😂
It seems that some models are put forward by individuals who have a personal financial stake in one view over another (speaking tours, books, etc). No doubt they would love additional exposure from scripture central or the church. Caution is warranted.
Joseph was clear that the BOM took place in North America - the Ohio River valley and along the Mississippi. 50 years ago as a HS seminary student - I questioned Central America as the location because there is zero freedom or prosperity south of the U.S. border.
@MerrillHansen-qz9ib if it did happen in America, we would have found artifacts and some ruins by now. We have found nothing described in BOM here in America on that large scale... or even a medium scale. South America or messoamerica is, however, not yet as dug up as we are here in North America.
It is good to know the location of the scriptures. Where would we be without the knowledge that Israel was where Jesus dwelt? It has been so beneficial to our knowledge to know the location. However, we do not where Heavenly Father lives but we can still have faith in him. There is however quotes from Joseph and important scriptures which better identify where the Book of Mormon setting was.
Ive made some respectful but clear comments of my personal view on where I thought the Book of Mormon mostly took place. Those who opposed this view were argumentative and snarky. I was shocked that members of the church would be so nasty about something they don’t even know 100% for sure. And I never claimed I did either.
Completely agree my friend. I'd like to think a lot of the negative comments are from trolls looking to stir up contention amongst us. Regardless, we need to be patient with each other.
"Actively discouraging" can be by omission. Discussing ambiguity without the context of the various geography models has the net effect of quietly endorsing one by total omission of others. Even just naming the various geography models would be better. There's a concern that the imaginary model lends itself to fantasy fiction maps rather than helping serious Book of Mormon readers better understand the geography as actual historical events. Letting people know about the various models seems more appropriate. For the most part, Scripture Central does a good job of promoting Gospel concepts and ideas. Whether I can articulate my feelings adequately or not, for me, this video falls short of the usual excellence of writing and presentation. Others are certainly entitled to see things differently.
I humbly state that thousands of years before Cain and Abel (5000 BC.), there were thousands of dark skinned peoples living throughout the Americas who would speak over 600 different languages and dialects. Each year these peoples would become more numerous.
In the same way the the devil causes Christians to argue about baptism, he would love to see Mormons argue about BOM geography. We cannot allow him to get a foothold on this
The Māori legend only came about years after LDS missionaries visited New Zealand, and has no historical or archaeological evidence. Joseph Smith testified that Nephite lands are in: Ohio, Indiana, Illinois and Missouri, and surrounding areas of the U.S.
It's well known that Scripture Central favors the Sorenson limited geography Mesoamerican model. It is interesting and there is some circumstantial evidence to support it. It's equally well known that Scripture Central actively discourages either the Hemispheric Model or the Heartland model. Perhaps Scripture Central could set the example for what you seem to advocate in this video.
While most of the scholars that work at Scripture Central do support a Mezo American Limited Model, saying SC "actively discourages either the Hemispheric Model or the Heartland model" is just not true. In all SC's lessons and videos the channel reinforces the church's stance about ambiguity and harmony; this video is evidence of that fact. Find me evidence anywhere in SC's content "actively discourag[ing]" any other model. You won't find it.
@@forzion1894 favoring one model is very different than “activity discouraging” please don’t misrepresent what I said. Most of the content supports the mezo model yes, but if that’s what the researchers believe then why wouldn’t they discuss evidence they believe that supports their ideas? However, that being said, I challenge you to find me one video where they speak negatively of heartland or any other model. I haven’t seen any. Conversely, I can actually find you multiple videos SC actually does provide evidence for heartland and other models.
@@dinocollins720 Dino, you're absolutely correct. And Scripture Central does not refuse to talk to students of other models. An upcoming episode of Marvelous Work has Boyd Tuttle in it. And we are working together to publish a new KnoWhy that speaks of potential Phoenician connections. There are some real efforts to build bridges despite disagreements.
Earlier editions of the BOM have footnotes of locations. North America... A land of gentiles, a land of no kings. However, Christ visited MANY people. Not just two places on the Earth
@@mattfraser1096 well there are quite a few, but I was just studying the online archive of the 1879 edition that is pretty fun. It references Lehi and fam landing in Chile, references Ecuador, references Ontario. Full north to South America model. Very interesting. Other very fascinating ideas outside of geography as well.
There’s a part in the Book of Mormon that says they traveled through the land where you can walk from one great ocean to another in one day. That can only be Panama.
@tjedwards4254 Would love to know more. As far as I knew, yes, the The Great Lakes are connected to the Atlantic Ocean through the Great Lakes-St. Lawrence Seaway System, but it's a distance of 2,340 miles to get to the ocean. Not the 'day journey' for sure.
@MakelleBell fair point. But does the book of mormon say ocean, or sea? Define sea. The great lakes are definitely a sea in Hebrew. If Galilee is a sea, certainly the great lakes are. Remember that water levels were higher up north. Also, there are 3 candidates among the great lakes that have a narrow neck of land, which is a single day journey. Which btw, Panama is not a single day journey, especially with all of the mountains and steep inclines.
@@tjedwards4254 wouldn’t they know the difference between fresh and salt water. I know the Mississippi is the river talked about. We will know for sure soon enough.
It's good to think of America's Then I love to understand why there are many places same names all over the world. Beautiful ❤️ Then the facts of Joseph Smith and the group of 200 traveling and coming across Mounds in The Carolinas. Burial site of someone who he was able to receive answers about. Thus giving even more understanding God had planted his people in many sacred places and they multiple. Moving at certain times for different reasons as explained in The Book Of Mormon. I don't concern my self about pinpointing any spot But one scared area that's mowed and kept very well Adam Gathering place Which will be Jesus Christ and other members that are called to be there 5:36
Is it possible that Christ visited both North and South America "that he may show that he is the God of the whole earth and have been slain for the sins of the world." Besides, isn't there a narrow neck of land near Lake Michigan?
@@alisarichardsramirezmusic2233 Revelation comes in response to asking, i doubt the brethren spend anytime asking about this. They have more important things to pray about.
I have no opinion one place or the other but I don’t believe any North American indigenous Indian tribe is in a position to fulfill this promise or prophecy made by the Savior: 15 And I say unto you, that if the Gentiles do not repent after the blessing which they shall receive, after they have scattered my people- 16 Then shall ye, who are a remnant of the house of Jacob, go forth among them; and ye shall be in the midst of them who shall be many; and ye shall be among them as a lion among the beasts of the forest, and as a young lion among the flocks of sheep, who, if he goeth through both treadeth down and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver. 17 Thy hand shall be lifted up upon thine adversaries, and all thine enemies shall be cut off. 18 And I will gather my people together as a man gathereth his sheaves into the floor. 19 For I will make my people with whom the Father hath covenanted, yea, I will make thy horn iron, and I will make thy hoofs brass. And thou shalt beat in pieces many people; and I will consecrate their gain unto the Lord, and their substance unto the Lord of the whole earth. And behold, I am he who doeth it. 20 And it shall come to pass, saith the Father, that the sword of my justice shall hang over them at that day; and except they repent it shall fall upon them, saith the Father, yea, even upon all the nations of the Gentiles. 21 And it shall come to pass that I will establish my people, O house of Israel. 22 And behold, this people will I establish in this land, unto the fulfilling of the covenant which I made with your father Jacob; and it shall be a New Jerusalem. And the powers of heaven shall be in the midst of this people; yea, even I will be in the midst of you. 3 Nephi 20
@@Steelblaidd Glad we could educate you. Its pretty frustrating when people refuse to look at facts. But as people do, the truth is coming to more and more people.
@@destinyvids2918 i still don't know that. And what facts. You haven't presented any. This is a new model to me and just based on what I know now I'm very skeptical.
Quetzlcoatl = Mesoamerica Large cities and more people than the sand on the seashore = Mesoamerica Many wars = Mesoamerica. Debate is over. Have a good evening.
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In the New Testament, Jesus told his disciples that he had “other sheep which are not of this flock”. For years I wondered what that meant. The BOM made it all clear.
I love scripture centrals doctrinal analysis videos. They are the best around. I also disagree with where they think it all took place. And you know what, I still think they are great people on this channel! It is important to know where it took place, I think we’re going to find out how important it is soon, but it’s not good to angrily argue about it in TH-cam comments and especially not at church. I also think it’s important to realize that some of these comments are from bad actors. Not even members of our church. Hope everyone has a great day!
I love this perspective!!! We can love and respect those that have different opinions to us!!! Especially when they are our Brothers and Sisters in the church! Love this comment brotha!
I once heard that Joseph Smith wrote the Book Of Mormon using scripture and passages from the Bible.
@PaulRossi-kh4fn so it's helpful to know he translated it by the gift and power of God, not written by Joseph Smith. Translated! Just to clarify what you heard was inaccurate.
It’s not history/geography book. It is teaching us about how we can and should be focused on Jesus Christ!
Big Fake 😅
Exactly. It's claims are false. JS just wrote a good book
Yes love this!
@@jake8882man with a third grade education writing a book like that is crazy
5:13 We have to believe the BoM is true. Why? The Mormon scholars cannot even provide a location for the stories. The story is completely anachronistic. The culture is a 19th century bent on an old world Bible story. It has nothing to do with everything we know about ancient American culture. Archeology, genetics, and anthropology all tells the story is false.
What am I missing here? I suggest we all look to the God of the Old and New Testament and enter into the New Covenant saving relationship with Christ.
Blessings.
Personally, I would love to see the places where the Book of Mormon events took place. These are the stories I grew up with. I would love to have a feel of what Nephi, Captain Moroni, Mormon and others were facing. But I think currently we simply don't know where exactly these things happened. The anti people said the Book of Mormon was fake but I know the Book of Mormon sites and artifacts are still out there to be found. No matter how little remain, or how difficult to identify them after two millennia, they are still out there. God knows how difficult they are to be found. They will be found by someone who is led by inspirations, someone who follows the counsels of the prophets, someone who is humble, someone with a pure intention, someone who would not use them to set himself or herself to be a light. When the time is met to reveal them, the Lord will reveal them.
We have the DNA results, what else do you need?
@@dr33776 And what do the DNA results say?
I once heard that Joseph Smith took scripture and passages from the Bible and wrote the Book Of Mormon!
Joseph Smith was commanded by God to send missionaries to THE Lamanites, he did, and sent them to: Missouri, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio and western New York, repeatedly, and personally testified to the Natives in those areas that they are THE descendants of the Book of Mormon Lamanites. Joseph testified of walking over the mounds of the Nephites, in Ohio, IN and IL, where the same mounds still exist today. Joseph testified of the ancient city of Manti, in N.E. Missouri, and Zarahemla, on the eastern edge of Iowa, across from Nauvoo. I served my mission in parts of these areas and have walked on the mounds myself. These are THE lands of the Nephites, you can go there today.
@@MrArtist7777 😂😂 sure buddy
👇Heartlander 🇺🇸
The Book of Mormon itself provides the best answer to the geography question:
2 Nephi 10:10-12 (one of many examples)
10 But behold, this land, said God, shall be a land of thine inheritance, and the Gentiles shall be blessed upon the land.
11 And this land shall be a land of liberty unto the Gentiles, and there shall be no kings upon the land, who shall raise up unto the Gentiles.
12 And I will fortify this land against all other nations.
Then I guess it can't be the United States, since the American colonies were ruled by a king from 1600 until 1783.
@@MrWhipple42 "... No kings upon the land..."
This seems to apply equally to all areas in the Americas though
@@loudogg73is correct. Spain ruled vast areas of the Americas for hundreds of years, yet the king or queen of Spain never set foot in the Western Hemisphere.
@@MrWhipple42, the Portuguese Royal Family lived in Brazil for a time.
Good video
Thank You ❤
Hopefully everyone commenting can chose to be kind; it makes no sense to fight with our Brothers and Sisters in the church... individuals we should be united with. I love Mezo and Heartland believers haha 😂
It seems that some models are put forward by individuals who have a personal financial stake in one view over another (speaking tours, books, etc). No doubt they would love additional exposure from scripture central or the church. Caution is warranted.
Joseph was clear that the BOM took place in North America - the Ohio River valley and along the Mississippi. 50 years ago as a HS seminary student - I questioned Central America as the location because there is zero freedom or prosperity south of the U.S. border.
@MerrillHansen-qz9ib if it did happen in America, we would have found artifacts and some ruins by now. We have found nothing described in BOM here in America on that large scale... or even a medium scale.
South America or messoamerica is, however, not yet as dug up as we are here in North America.
It is good to know the location of the scriptures. Where would we be without the knowledge that Israel was where Jesus dwelt? It has been so beneficial to our knowledge to know the location. However, we do not where Heavenly Father lives but we can still have faith in him. There is however quotes from Joseph and important scriptures which better identify where the Book of Mormon setting was.
Ive made some respectful but clear comments of my personal view on where I thought the Book of Mormon mostly took place. Those who opposed this view were argumentative and snarky. I was shocked that members of the church would be so nasty about something they don’t even know 100% for sure. And I never claimed I did either.
Completely agree my friend. I'd like to think a lot of the negative comments are from trolls looking to stir up contention amongst us. Regardless, we need to be patient with each other.
"Actively discouraging" can be by omission. Discussing ambiguity without the context of the various geography models has the net effect of quietly endorsing one by total omission of others. Even just naming the various geography models would be better.
There's a concern that the imaginary model lends itself to fantasy fiction maps rather than helping serious Book of Mormon readers better understand the geography as actual historical events. Letting people know about the various models seems more appropriate.
For the most part, Scripture Central does a good job of promoting Gospel concepts and ideas. Whether I can articulate my feelings adequately or not, for me, this video falls short of the usual excellence of writing and presentation. Others are certainly entitled to see things differently.
Another fantastic video! thank you!
I humbly state that thousands of years before Cain and Abel (5000 BC.), there were thousands of dark skinned peoples living throughout the Americas who would speak over 600 different languages and dialects. Each year these peoples would become more numerous.
In the same way the the devil causes Christians to argue about baptism, he would love to see Mormons argue about BOM geography. We cannot allow him to get a foothold on this
Well, Maori in New Zealand have kept genealogy that says they came from the narrow neck of land called Panamaho with the ship captain Hagothe.
Interesting, but what is your source?
Maori*
The Māori legend only came about years after LDS missionaries visited New Zealand, and has no historical or archaeological evidence. Joseph Smith testified that Nephite lands are in: Ohio, Indiana, Illinois and Missouri, and surrounding areas of the U.S.
It's well known that Scripture Central favors the Sorenson limited geography Mesoamerican model. It is interesting and there is some circumstantial evidence to support it. It's equally well known that Scripture Central actively discourages either the Hemispheric Model or the Heartland model. Perhaps Scripture Central could set the example for what you seem to advocate in this video.
While most of the scholars that work at Scripture Central do support a Mezo American Limited Model, saying SC "actively discourages either the Hemispheric Model or the Heartland model" is just not true. In all SC's lessons and videos the channel reinforces the church's stance about ambiguity and harmony; this video is evidence of that fact.
Find me evidence anywhere in SC's content "actively discourag[ing]" any other model. You won't find it.
@@dinocollins720 If SC is not a biased promoter of the Mesoamerican model, why do they refuse to even talk to students of other models?
@@forzion1894 favoring one model is very different than “activity discouraging” please don’t misrepresent what I said. Most of the content supports the mezo model yes, but if that’s what the researchers believe then why wouldn’t they discuss evidence they believe that supports their ideas?
However, that being said, I challenge you to find me one video where they speak negatively of heartland or any other model. I haven’t seen any. Conversely, I can actually find you multiple videos SC actually does provide evidence for heartland and other models.
@@dinocollins720 Dino, you're absolutely correct. And Scripture Central does not refuse to talk to students of other models. An upcoming episode of Marvelous Work has Boyd Tuttle in it. And we are working together to publish a new KnoWhy that speaks of potential Phoenician connections. There are some real efforts to build bridges despite disagreements.
@@RichF245 Good news if true
Earlier editions of the BOM have footnotes of locations. North America... A land of gentiles, a land of no kings. However, Christ visited MANY people. Not just two places on the Earth
Also had references to central and south america, but yes totally agree with you brotha!
What references? just curious of what you are thinking about
@@mattfraser1096 well there are quite a few, but I was just studying the online archive of the 1879 edition that is pretty fun. It references Lehi and fam landing in Chile, references Ecuador, references Ontario. Full north to South America model. Very interesting. Other very fascinating ideas outside of geography as well.
@@mattfraser1096 footnotes removed in the early 1900s in think
Joseph Smith was clear...
As much as the Lord allowed...
There’s a part in the Book of Mormon that says they traveled through the land where you can walk from one great ocean to another in one day. That can only be Panama.
@Doadab13 what if I told you that there are several locations near the great lakes, that make more sense?
@tjedwards4254 Would love to know more. As far as I knew, yes, the The Great Lakes are connected to the Atlantic Ocean through the Great Lakes-St. Lawrence Seaway System, but it's a distance of 2,340 miles to get to the ocean. Not the 'day journey' for sure.
@MakelleBell fair point. But does the book of mormon say ocean, or sea? Define sea. The great lakes are definitely a sea in Hebrew. If Galilee is a sea, certainly the great lakes are. Remember that water levels were higher up north. Also, there are 3 candidates among the great lakes that have a narrow neck of land, which is a single day journey.
Which btw, Panama is not a single day journey, especially with all of the mountains and steep inclines.
@@tjedwards4254 wouldn’t they know the difference between fresh and salt water. I know the Mississippi is the river talked about. We will know for sure soon enough.
The Book of Mormon doesn't say two oceans
North America Alabama / Florida to Minnesota / New York
So, what body of water is the sea west in your geographic model?
It's good to think of America's
Then I love to understand why there are many places same names all over the world.
Beautiful ❤️
Then the facts of Joseph Smith and the group of 200 traveling and coming across Mounds in The Carolinas.
Burial site of someone who he was able to receive answers about.
Thus giving even more understanding God had planted his people in many sacred places and they multiple. Moving at certain times for different reasons as explained in The Book Of Mormon.
I don't concern my self about pinpointing any spot
But one scared area that's mowed and kept very well
Adam Gathering place
Which will be Jesus Christ and other members that are called to be there 5:36
Um, Joseph Smith never went to the Carolinas. Never even got close.
Orson Pratt had it right. Mormon, who was a general offered pricise discriptions of the lay of the land
Grade A B.S. the church’s own historians debunk the Book of Mormon geography.
Why does this feel like a PR piece?
Team Heartland . . . ASSEMBLE!
Is it possible that Christ visited both North and South America "that he may show that he is the God of the whole earth and have been slain for the sins of the world." Besides, isn't there a narrow neck of land near Lake Michigan?
Does our Church have a Prophet or not? He could clear this up.
Only if the Lord thinks it is important to reveal. We can't compel revelation.
Why do you think the Lord, through his prophet, doesn't clear it up, at least yet?
@@alisarichardsramirezmusic2233 Revelation comes in response to asking, i doubt the brethren spend anytime asking about this. They have more important things to pray about.
Vietnam. Obviously
I have no opinion one place or the other but I don’t believe any North American indigenous Indian tribe is in a position to fulfill this promise or prophecy made by the Savior:
15 And I say unto you, that if the Gentiles do not repent after the blessing which they shall receive, after they have scattered my people-
16 Then shall ye, who are a remnant of the house of Jacob, go forth among them; and ye shall be in the midst of them who shall be many; and ye shall be among them as a lion among the beasts of the forest, and as a young lion among the flocks of sheep, who, if he goeth through both treadeth down and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver.
17 Thy hand shall be lifted up upon thine adversaries, and all thine enemies shall be cut off.
18 And I will gather my people together as a man gathereth his sheaves into the floor.
19 For I will make my people with whom the Father hath covenanted, yea, I will make thy horn iron, and I will make thy hoofs brass. And thou shalt beat in pieces many people; and I will consecrate their gain unto the Lord, and their substance unto the Lord of the whole earth. And behold, I am he who doeth it.
20 And it shall come to pass, saith the Father, that the sword of my justice shall hang over them at that day; and except they repent it shall fall upon them, saith the Father, yea, even upon all the nations of the Gentiles.
21 And it shall come to pass that I will establish my people, O house of Israel.
22 And behold, this people will I establish in this land, unto the fulfilling of the covenant which I made with your father Jacob; and it shall be a New Jerusalem. And the powers of heaven shall be in the midst of this people; yea, even I will be in the midst of you. 3 Nephi 20
We know it’s North America. Mostly Florida to New York.
Who's "we"?
I don't know that.
@@Steelblaidd Glad we could educate you. Its pretty frustrating when people refuse to look at facts. But as people do, the truth is coming to more and more people.
@@destinyvids2918 i still don't know that. And what facts. You haven't presented any. This is a new model to me and just based on what I know now I'm very skeptical.
Quetzlcoatl = Mesoamerica
Large cities and more people than the sand on the seashore = Mesoamerica
Many wars = Mesoamerica.
Debate is over. Have a good evening.
Ummm no