Having looked at tower crane failures. Usually its a failure to follow procedure vs failure, These failures are usually caused because the pins were removed first before the section. They should have prepared the section then removed the pins. 20 foot sections....... remember if it failed more than 20 feet up they didn’t follow procedure. Lots of court behind this comment. OSHA\
Dan T So true, and yet so often we hear complaints of “government overreach” and the wimpification of society. We learn these lessons the hardest way, but still forget.
As a former ironworker, no pins are removed without the foreman and superintendent telling them to do it. Pin, removal is a major event, everyone on site knows it.
AvE, didn't you say right off the first that the pins couldn't be driven in unless the section was supported? How could they have been removed w/o said support crane doin its job?
@@duckslinger999 After the Westray bill you can even be held *criminally* responsible. Section 217.1 of the criminal code : "Every one who undertakes, or has the authority, to direct how another person does work or performs a task is under a legal duty to take reasonable steps to prevent bodily harm to that person, or any other person, arising from that work or task."
@@OldCurmudgeon3DP Seems those pins would have had to have been out since the get go. This seems so far over the top in how this could occur as the pins could only be removed or put in while the sections above have the weight relieved by another crane. Being so sure points to them never having been installed and would be awesome if someone in area had security cams that caught when the crane was erected or someone was videoing the event and maybe could help prove what happened. Deep pockets is going to attract a ton of wrongful death lawyers.
This is the kind of incident that everyone wants to sweep under the rug and say nothing. Telling the story can help prevent similar disasters in the future. Thanks for laying down the story and the moral AVE.
I work in the cell tower industry. In a time crunch the FIRST thing the higher ups want to ignore is safety. 100% of the time. I really appreciate everyone adding to this thread. While i knew that my own experience with safety really left a lot to be desired, I'm surprised at how many different trades and professions share my sentiments. It's too bad really..
Damn right. The amount of deaths in the tower industry are extremely high as well. Far higher than other positions in the construction industry. I was a tower rigger for a few years with some of my friends. Tough and dangerous work. There was no safety back then.
My friend, Andrew Yoder, was one of the iron workers that died. I've just been devastated since the collapse. His wife and two children need help to get through this and we're going to be trying to help out any way we can. I'm really still at a loss of words and I'm an emotional wreck. Andrew was the nicest and most generous people.
Dammit dude I'm sorry that's terrible. I really hope you can take it with you, and use your experience to help prevent it again. I've lost friends for military service and motorcycles, and they all suck horribly, have to learn to accept and embrace it, it gets easier but never goes away
@David Daivdson I come from a construction family (I know people who worked on the excavation portion of this site) and it still makes sense. That said, Seattle/Washington will be in major a$$ covering mode. Because not only is there the pin situation, but the street below should have been closed but apparently Seattle didn't require or permit it (and very possibly denied a request from the construction company). There will be spin...abetted by the pandering local fish wrapper.
My dad died on a construction site 6 weeks ago today when a rock fell off a truck and hit him in the head. He was 49. Seeing this really affects me, because I know there are some families out there with a lot of questions and a lot of hurt. Stay safe out there, folks. And hug your son.
There are so many unctrolled factors that thrive on jobsites. As a fellow trades man I feel your loss, it's extremely devestating. You and yours will be in my prayers. Godbless.
Sorry for your loss my friend. No words can comfort but condolences none the less. I'm positive he was a great man. God be with him, you and yours. Rest in peace.
I'm sorry for your loss, I hope you are getting through okay. You're not alone in the loss of loved ones and in the confusion of not knowing why or how it could've been prevented. Everyone goes through it eventually. My mom committed suicide about 1 month ago and I had never been so confused and shocked in my life. So many questions that I'll never know the answer to. The best way to move on is to just let the past be in the past and look to your own future and surround yourself with people who love and care about you. There's always going to be a light in the dark that will light the path. Goodluck to you.
True. And I agree. I used to be in the heavy tow industry. We had a terrible time with what was suppose to be a certain grade poping like M80's and shearing. We checked the markings and they seemed legit till we actually stress tested them and found them to be chinese manufactured fakes sold by a reputable store.
Looks like you know what you were talking about. "The preliminary findings from the Department of Labor and Industries was released in October and found that the collapse was caused by the premature removal of more than 50 pins between the tower crane sections."
I think any of us who has put a boot in the mud on a jobsite already knew this. Very clear, utter f*** up to the highest degree. I simply can't understand why someone...not one f*****g person didn't go bullshit screaming for someone to stop taking them out/get the pins back in etc. The guys taking them out didn't know any better? Are you f***** shitting me? Is everyone on that jobsite numb from the shoulders up? It makes no sense. None.
I wonder at the end of the day who's fault that would be?? because it seems to me in an operation like that it would be super easy for a average joe worker to be on a radio and get a call like "Hey, Joe go ahead and knock those pins out in your section..." he thinks okay and does what he is told assuming somebody on the other end knows what the frigg they are doing... but little did he know they radioed Joe, Larry, Moe, and Curly and then some more all at the same time.... I am no kind of crane operator but the jeezless stuff aint rocket surgery seems super obvious to me that you would go small sections from the top down on disassembly.
From the collapse mechanism it seems they must of knocked the pins out the base. Pretty fucking bad. 50 pins, 8 pins per level is min six levels. Wonder if install documentation is online
I am a tower crane operator of 20 something years. I know what happened here. I’ve shut down jobs to prevent exactly this. The erectors (iron workers) were cutting corners and were trying to finish quickly. They shouldn’t have been working in the wind and they most definitely should not have removed all the bolts. Loosening is one thing but removing is insane. The parties to blame here are the operator for allowing it to happen. The technician for agreeing to it and the foreman for the erectors (iron workers) pushing for it. What a needless tragedy. EDIT: Fantastic work AvE. Thank you.
The guy(s) who pulled the pins out could also have refuse to do it. In my opinion they should have known better. They were properly trained to do that kind of work. They knew it wasn’t safe to do it. They should take some of the blame too, but much less than their boss... Terrible accident 100% preventable. Criminal negligence at so many levels...
it was reported on local TV news, here in Seattle, that the bldg was woefully behind schedule. Perhaps, somebody was cutting corners to speed up the operation of dismantling.
Sometimes, you have to have the balls to say NO, and if they push, walk away, and if it's bad enough, tell someone who can stop them. Yes, I've caught shit and even got fired from a job for pointing out dangerous practice. I'll do it again. Just had a customer who likes to shut the emergency generator down during packed events so 'it don't make the lights flash and noise and smoke'. The generator runs among other things, the emergency egress lighting and the fire pump. I pointed out the error of his ways. Also had high rise where the building management blew me off on how the system performs. The good fight is not an easy fight, but please people, have the balls to fight it.
I wish this was the top comment. If you are a professional and you are told to do something contrary to your training and your judgement and it's going to put people at risk you have a moral obligation to say no.
For this reason I don't go to certain venues here in the city. Especially if it's with kids. If the shit hits the fan and it's a massive clawing for the exit in smoke and noise, I have a mediocre chance of making it by myself because I'm a strong bastard. No way if I have the wife or kid in tow. I live just outside Portland OR and there are too many shows I would like to go to in converted ballrooms. Often multiple flights of relatively narrow and steep stairs, only one way out and it's just not worth it to me. I've skipped concerts because of the crap setup.
@@adamruck Lots of folks get told the enginerds are too conservative. "I has pulled these pins like this a thousands times mee laddie.. dont be a readin the manual now. Those boys never had to builds a buildin' and they be momma's boys at heart.. grow a pair and pull them damn pins and we'll be home for the game. " And then people die including the lad listening to the old timer. The problem is to many people live thru a few of these old stories just fine... and then they get up against the design limit on a blustery day.. and the whole thing goes to shit. Just because it worked once, or twice or even a hundred times... doesn't make it safe to cheat the rules.
Saving money but at what cost? Its all nice and dandy till shit hits the fan and then all you get is raised eyebrows and people pointing finger at whos the blame...
The sections are in doubles, 2 sections per. That's how they take them down to save some time, they end up 39 feet long ( metric actual). You see the unions that they didnt remove pins all held together despite the abuse of falling and snashing. If the pins were in this crane could easily withstand 100 mph wind. You can see they removed pins every other. Sad to see trying to save time and cut corners. This isn't manufacturer spec removal, they didn't follow proper procedure for dismantle.
Yep I see it now! All the sections laying on the roof and the one on the ground are doubles. How did they get all those pins out without the support crane lifting the weight off?
The industry is busy right now They probably gave the job to a guy that wasn't ready and didn't think through and double check his work. A foreman must himself triple check what his leadmen double checked, you just have to. The process should have been thought out multiple times starting weeks before the date for dismantle.
As someone who works in the occupational safety and health field in the US, I cannot tell you how much I appreciate this video. This is the type of stuff we need our technical minds shining the light on. This type of thing should never be swept under the rug of a settlement or obfuscated by legal smoke and mirrors. The news will never offer coverage like this. I have been watching AvE for years now, and this video only makes me respect you more. Thank you, AvE, for your unapologetic assertation on matters such as these.
I once helped take down a tower crane, hired help through the union. Basically there to help speed the project up. In addition to technicians that worked for the company that owned the tower, we were also there to help with disassembly. Needless to say, I asked the foreman why the technician was taking pins out 3 sections below us, as we were 200 feet in the air. He looks the other way. I no longer work for the union. In addition too, when i saw this accident on the news and saw all the sections on the ground, i knew exactly what happened.
I’m curious if it’s difficult to remove the pins in the lower sections? I would imagine they don’t just slip out of the holes on sections that are several segments lower than the crane would be relieving the strain...
@@davidgrosshauser5268 the pins are super hardened, so even when they are bearing a large load there isnt a huge amount of friction holding the pin into the hole. you wouldnt be able too pull it by hand but youd be able to tap it out
The pins would have had to shear out of the tube frame as the tubing would be the first point of failure. The solid pins and solid connecting bars would take a comparatively insane amount of force to yield (20x-100x). The extra few hours that would have been saved pale in comparison to losing lives. The only good that will come out of this is that every foreman in the country who has a tower crane on their job spent today looking over their towers to make sure this won't happen to them. Unfortunately, we have short-term memories and 2 years from now it will be business as usual...
If people want to take shortcuts that put their own health or lives in danger, I guess that's on them. I can't fathom a mentality that puts your coworkers or innocent bystanders in mortal peril because you're in a hurry.
Truly negligence in the part I who removed the pins but Some other violations I you said 40mph wind violates crane protocallyou have to measure wind speed at top operators can be held as legally responsible as owners operator has the last say it to much wind he's supposed to dingy the pick according to the occ crane class I sat. Through
Looking at crane collapses you commonly see steel bending and buckling or entire cranes coming down with sections intact. You never see sections coming apart like that, your analysis seems spot on.
It's going to be a lawyered up decade and a half clusterfuck of parties pointing fingers back and forth. The real truth will likely never be known and covered under reports and waivers.
@@hillie47 Yep, I fear you are right. I am a construction defect expert (residential stuff) and even these relatively little cases can go on for years. They almost all finally resolve privately, with sealed records. Even when they result in wrongful death actions.
Looks like a series of failures which is typical of preventable disasters. They didn't account for the high forecast wind conditions. They wanted to remove the sections in pairs which isn't standard procedure (2x time saving) and critically decided to remove every pair's pins all the way down (Save even more time). They likely relied on the supporting crane to keep it from swaying in wind but then the wind speed got too high and they disconnected or did not attach. After that it would have been too dangerous/impossible to put the pins back and the sustained high winds made the collapse inevitable which would mean they also neglected to evacuate workers and nearby roads. The moment the supporting crane ran into too high wind speeds to assist they should have evacuated the crane operators and closed off the roads around the building.
@@mattburkett9419 I am sure you are right, but ... ahh, but the exact words, by whom?... when? before the wind started? you get the idea... I hope AvE is right, and "new" safety protocols will be written, and enforced, at least for a while.
So glad you are doing this. Responding to real life engineering failures. It will be months before the official version comes out, and, then, it's......maybe the truth, and distilled into half a sentence in the 5 o'clock news. More people seeing it means more people learn from it, and more lives are spared.
to be clear, it wasn't an engineering failure, as it wasn't properly affixed... if all the pins were in and this happened, then it would be an engineering failure.. This is a process / assembly failure
I hear you guys. The point is, someone watching this video could avoid tragedy at a future date. It is the responsibility of everyone involved, from the engineer to the guy throwing scraps in a barrel, imho.
"Codes are written in blood." That line has stuck with me after hearing it at a NFPA 70e training a few years back. So true. As for EMT's and Police, on my kids hockey team, a couple of the parents do that work, both full time and volunteer. We've had plenty a late night drinking in the hallways of the hotels at tournaments discussing the aftermath of fires, accidents, and shootings. Not a pretty sight, but they all say they have plenty of help with therapists.
NFPA 70e? Oh nice. I've helped produce a handful of NFPA training materials while my sister now does course development. A really long time ago my mom did expert consulting work for NFPA 72 and public education like NFPA kids and FEMAs Ready Kids. Most of the course work is of course fire fighter training though.
@@Furiends My employer sent a handful of us for some training more or less to make sure we recognize hazards as an operational group. Electrical maintenance falls to outside contractors, but being on the safety committee it was an eye opening training. Good Stuff.
@@ericgulseth74 having been involved in a couple of NFPA 30 and 30A (flammable liquids and service stations) revision sessions, I was noticing the start of capture of the committees by corporate interests that can afford to send delegates to exotoc venues, but the AHJs and the enforcers on the street are frequently on a shoestring travel budget from the city and can't show up to put in their two cents worth. NFPA codes are consensus codes, but it is the committees that decide what changes will be put to the full membership for a vote.
Had the same thing for my oil/gas safe land card. As they said it, images of oil field injuries and deaths scrolled across the projector screen. Hell of a way to be introduced to the Bakken.
People become complacent I started the new jobs last week I was cleaning up but cleaning up I turn the propane off on the forklift the next day my boss went to use the forklift it would not start I should wait a minute let me turn the fuel on I got my ass chewed for turning the fuel off. All in the name of convenience too f****** lazy to turn the valve on in the morning after one more day I found myself looking for a new job!
Worked in a lumber mill. I’d get chewed out if I forgot to turn the tank off. You can’t rely on the carb to seal 100%. Same thing for the oxygen and acetylene tanks...
Never change your ethics. I'm a stickler for safety as well. I've run across some people that have been "inconvenienced" by it. But, guess what? I have a soft pillow at night.
It's the same with all. It first has to go upside down for something to change. We worked in the backyard of our boss (we were a three men company) my buddy had the great idea to take a spade and cut with it through a possible life 230v (ger) wire. Later that day the wife of my boss told me that an electritian told her that a wire that is no longer connected through the fuse can have a rest of voltage... Yeah I called bulls on both occasions.
That's a fact. When I was in the CG, my ship had a 5" 38 cal cannon of WWII vintage. Up in the turret, much of the actual gun mechanism was painted red, as opposed to Navy gray. Every splash of red paint indicated a part of the cannon that had killed or maimed someone on the crew. Not necessarily *that* specific gun, but historically, over the life of the cannon. Really drove home the message that being inside one of these was dangerous as hell.
Construction companies are being set up and using workers as pawns especially with the HR and cronie hiring practices get ready. Just like setting wildfires. Be well.
My old boss always used to say you could have two out of the three, you would never run on budget, on time and with full safety requirements implemented. That’s what happens when bean counters submit the bids for work instead of experienced managers who give time to rigorous safety testing. You win the work on price and then folk wonder why the workers are forced to cut corners 🤷🏻♂️
@Rata 4U "If you enjoy having a few beers every weekend" And how exactly are you going to legally prevent them from having a few beers every weekend? As long as they aren't "legally drunk" on the job, there's nothing you can do to stop them from having a few beers on weekends. Alcohol goes out of the blood stream in 12 hours tops. So they can happily have a drink at 6pm Sunday and arrive at work 6am Monday and not have any trace of alcohol in their bloodstream. Sure, you can check if they have consumed alcohol via a urine sample or by checking their hair follicles... But you still have to have a valid and legal reason to lay off a worker on the basis that they are legally drinking outside of their work. That being said, of course you can also legally fire someone for turning up to work with a hangover every monday. Which is why most sane people have drinks on Saturday and leave Sunday to recover. If you fire people for having a drink on weekends which is a perfectly legal and socially acceptable endeavor then you won't have an organization for too long. EDIT: Unless of course you are situated in Saudi Arabia or similar... If that's the case then... Allahu akbar i guess?
I've been on sites 3 different times when cranes collapsed. One at Satsop#3 when Chicago Bridge & Iron had their unit collapse, and two mine jobs in New Mexico. One with Bechtel and the other with Sundt. Not anything I'd want to watch or experience again. At Satsop the guy wire sliced a truck in half. Like a knife through butter. A dangerous job that needs perfection in it's operation.
@@SWhite-hp5xq Liberty is right, how many people work on those cranes and do you know what role he actually had? Plus considering 2 of his experiences were in a country with generally lower level workers as well as his work experience could have been long enough that shit happens.
Nuclear Enginerd here, I was told by our crane guy that cranes have at least a safety factor of seven (7) so that they don't have to do the really hard math like cyclic loading. *Edit:* this applies only for the below-the-hook devices (I think). I am mis-remembering things because I was doing cyclic-loading tests at the time, so it might not even be about cyclic loading.
I'd have to ask my dad, but that's about the figure I remeber. My dad was/is an ME with a major O&G, one of the crane experts for the company. It's crazy how well built they are and the safety factors that go into them.
@@1320crusier on top of that, the way they're rated, the number they're rated at is the MOST they can do, in a best case scenario (on a mobile crane at least) so that safety factor is that much better.
@@RobertsBiezais in the us, not on cranes. thats the max, at best case scenario (boom in, at the best angle, over the cab). so what it can do only goes down from there. an off-road forklift thats rated for 20,000 pounds, boom all the way out and up, can only pick up 500 or less. that's not a typo, it really does go down to 500, not 5000. anything more than that and the back tires start coming up, ive seen it myself
What are the odds some know it all thought he could shave some time by getting those pins out thinking the weight of the crane would have been good enough to keep it together. Probably wouldn't have been the first time they did it but the first time in high wind. Some guys just refuse wrap their heads around safety. I'd imagine everyone has worked with that guy at least once.
Looks like you are right about the pins having been removed. When you get to 9:30 , those aren't connection pins and that isn't a section connection. Look at the pin holes on the other solid couplings, they are farther apart from each other. Those look like threaded bolts . If that was a connection of two sections , you don't see a place to have two pin holes on the left section of what you're implying is a connection. If the pins were in when it separated, they would most likely remained in that solid connection piece and would have torn through the thinner box beam of the section . What looks like a gap in what you are suggesting is an intact connection may be a string tied around. If all pins were in , it would have most likely failed only at its base. You do great work . Thank You.
AvE, thanks as always when you put some of your thoughts to these images. Always good to have a running conversation about workplace issues that put people in danger, especially when the people in the firing line don't even know it.
Just came here to thank you for all the videos you've made. For all the things you've fixed, or fixed them until they were broke. You are truly an exceptional human! Keep on doing what you do, Bud!
The latest interview released by a operator trainer said the exact same thing. He believes the pins were pulled in preparation of disassembly which blows my mind. AVE awesome video good sir!
The only ripped & torn sections were at just above roof level where the pins were removed and 2 of the inserts became the pivot point. New video of that section on a truck after disassembly was shown by Chanel 7 news and it is completely damning evidence that the pins were indeed pulled....
@@dalewalker4614 right! boss showed in his second video.... it was even pulled from one side of the box tube and pushed out on the other by the insert.
Growing up in Manhattan in the 80s I was at my dad’s deli on 53rd one day in 1982 when the world frelling exploded. A crane on Madison Ave had failed and somehow slammed into the granite work on the top of the 44 story building, tossing *_massive_* stone chunks onto 53rd street, right in front of the deli. Some of those stones punched through to the subway... that’s the kind of force that I can not adequately describe. The following scene was broken glass, debris, chaos and *_dust._* I’ll never forget it and when I talked to my dad about this Seattle collapse and asked what he remembered about _that day_ he asked which one I meant and started rattling off dates and streets where cranes fell around his city... I’d forgotten how often it happened (back then).
"frelling" Completely OT, with no disrespect to this terrible tragedy, I just have to say, hello fellow Farscaper! It's rare to encounter one out in the wild, these days.
I was a structural Ironworker in my junior years so I have some interest and knowledge. In 1997 I was driving in Seattle and noticed a tower crane being taken down. It was in a similar state as the one that fell. It didn't have a crane rigged to it and Ironworkers were down several sections of tower from the top and beating the pins out of the connections. I couldn't believe what I saw so I had to stop and look for a while thinking that I was missing part of the picture. But that was exactly what was happening. I drove away with a sick feeling and astonished that such a display of ignorance and stupidity could be happening in plain sight in a major city. If that was happening in 1997 it was probably happening before then and probably up until the accident.
Anyone saying the pins were never installed just stop thinking. The crane would never made it a day setting iron. They do more than just keep the piece in place. There are lifting forces involved with these pins depending on where the load is. It also would not have made it through the multitude of regular inspections and pin nut torque checking If you have ever been under looking up or on one of these you would know how they rock and move AND twist. Its something to get used to. More so when your up there. And 10 fold while counter weights and boom sections are being lifted away as the support crane takes the weight. If you are on one only a couple hundred feet high or less that you do not need to de-stack like it appears they were doing because of the size of the support and lack of a jin section. When there is no load the forces are greater to the back and the pins on the opposite side are resisting a uplift sheer. And the opposite when its picking in the upper half of its load limits. This is a rolling effect of load changes as the top rotates. This crane does not just sit there balanced (i really laughed at that comment) common now Feed the gerble. There is a massive footing poured at the base of the building that it is attached to that usually just gets buried after the fact. Ironworker
Just to give an idea of how complex this investigation is going to be, the Washington Department of Labor and Industries has opened investigations into the four companies involved in taking apart the crane: GLY Construction, the general contractor; Northwest Tower Crane Service, a subcontractor that physically disassembled the crane into pieces; Omega Morgan, which removed sections with a smaller crane; and Morrow Equipment, which owned the tower crane
i was working at Lincoln square expansion a gly job installing elevators where they dropped a backing plate for a manlift which is like 16''x16''x2'' from nearly 400ft where it hit the deck above and blew out a 6ft piece of concrete in the ceiling with the rebar being the only thing keeping it from coming down
What about the City of Seattle? Why wasn't the street closed? Nobody has said what closure permits the contractor requested vs. what they received, but either way the City should have required street closures (but obviously didn't). Half the deaths and all the injuries could have been prevented if the street had been closed.
Operating Engineer myself. Many, many times erecting and dismantling tower cranes. This is a great video. They clearly pulled the pins all at once. This is homicide, ladies and gentlemen. The shot of the fucking tool bag is a smoking gun.
I've assembled stage equipment weighing under 100 ton that has had the pins checked over by 3 separate people twice before it goes up. It only comes down when supported by something that takes the entire weight and is removed sectionally in a way that is fail safe. It really boggles the mind how this could happen. I don't even really grasp how it would be possible to remove lower pins without lifting the weight of the crane off them. I find it hard to believe a worker would be pounding away at the lower pins with a sledge hammer without realising the danger. Surely people on the job know the circumstances. I really hope the truth gets told.
Is it possible the second crane could lift enough to take the tension off the lower sections? Still a terrible idea, but started disassembling the crane then had to call it off and forgot or didn't have time to put the pins back?
It appears you are correct. Those pins have been removed. With the jib and machinery deck removed (as that crane is), there is NO way that the wind alone could push that crane over if the tower was properly pinned. A freakin' hurricane couldn't knock that rig over. Liebherr cranes are about the stoutest machines in the world, like you said, them Germans build them strong and take no shortcuts.
Well I have built several cranes even taken them apart...... The shit I got for missing 1single pin is 1million dollar fine converted from Swedish currency...... And a cut license with 9year ban from taking a new...... And I feel for the ones that lost their life in this major accident😢
@@youtubasoarus yeah I know that😞 but still should have been a inspector checking each unit up on assembly as I had.....😐😐 But still accidents happes just sad that this one cost life of several people😥😔😔
When I took my forensic photography training, we had an instructor that showed us an investigation of a crane go-over. The pins had sheered, broken, and in a couple cases, "pied", by turning into broken, irregular pieces on the long axis. They found parts of pins in a 2.2mi radius, and, a lot of them were on top of buildings. Pins were never taken out of rotation (retired) and 2 were fake.
When I decided to search about news of a disaster that was local to me I ironically came to this channel; I've seen AvE post these kinds of videos before, and Didn't know whether or not AvE would touch bases with this horrendous incident. Thank you for supplying these photos bro; as soon as I saw those crane sections nearly completely intact, it is pretty evident the pins were all pulled from the crane. That frame is solid as hell (obviously seen, look at the MINIMAL damage on the crane segment on the ground). Thanks for the news AvE!
Spot on analysis of the situation based on the information available. This was a completely preventable tragedy. I spent 10+ years in public safety (EMS and then LE) - you're right, this kind of stuff sticks with you. My heart goes out to everyone involved.
I've been on these jobs sites in Seattle for nearly 30 years. This job is Block 25 and I personally did work here. I am very sad this happened. It's one thing to see it on the news but completely heartbreaking when you are connected to the project. My prayers go to everyone this impacts.
I operate mobile cranes, like the one that Ave referred to as a "ground based" crane. It's a fun job, but incidents like this bring things back to perspective.
You were correct. They prematurely removed the pins, while still in use.The investigation found they had removed 50 pins The crane separated when the wind kicked up. Removing the pins prematurely went against all manufacturers instructions.
INSANE to remove boom pins!!!!!.. Liebherr cranes as well as all mfgs have explicit method s to erect or disassemble. I have run cranes repaired for 30 years in NYC. Never ever heard of anyone pulling erected boom pins premature . Bizarre how booms not damaged implying pins out. You have a good point! You seem to be correct on this. All pins and welds boom sections are x-ray inspection annually and special ultra strong metals .
@@richardshortman5645 This disassembly would have been perfectly safe if the written procedures from the manufacturer had been followed. I am sorry for everyone involved as well.
Sarah was a classmate of my sons'. Very sad for our community. I had not seen any of the wreckage pictures before. Holy crap! At least it was quick. I don't know where the two steal workers were, but I hope they did not suffer either. Thanks again for this video. I have always been amazed how they erect and un/dis erect these things. I believe your conclusions are true, and that some yahoo got ahead of pulling some pins. And maybe they are among the casualties. Also liked your analysis of that cement overpass collapse....
@@dalewalker4614; When I was an Iron worker we used Morrow crane (the same co that owns this one) to assemble and dismantle their tower cranes when we rented them for a project,the technician they sent to oversee the work was a top notch pro and took no shortcuts.The first section of the tower is attached with embedded bolts to a huge concrete block that is poured in place with 90yds of high strength concrete.Our crane was much bigger than this one that went down and all connections were bolted and torqued to 1700lbs ant every connection,no pins were used and every 5wks the bolts all had to be re torqued and logged in a book that stayed with the crane.I've never seen a tower that was pinned at the concrete.I dont think these guys had a tech in assisting with the dismantling,there are over 50 tower crane spread out in and around Seattle so maybe there were no tech's to be had and they proceeded without one beings this is not a huge tower crane. They probably worked on taking down towers before and they went with what they had.The tower sections come on a truck in 40 foot sections( 2-20s pinned together) so those pins that held the two sections together had probably never been driven out since new so thats why every other section still had its pins in,they'd be real hard to drive out and there really is no need to.
I've worked as an EMT and you're right, it does stick with you. I remember every loss. Just want anyone here who may have been on site, there is help out there. There should be a first responders crisis line in your area. They'll listen. Many of them have worked in medical floors and ERs and understand what you're going through. Talk to them, please.
Stephen Steele, I feel for you, man. I was a court reporter for 22 years and had to mark photos as exhibits in these legal cases of mangled people, dead bodies, crime scenes. And, in order to keep the lawyers, witnesses, or jury from being affected by my reaction, I wasn’t allowed to even show a reaction. So I had to stuff it all deep inside. But when I’d get home, the tears would roll, and I’d let myself be sick. PTSD I guess they call it now. Not fun. And thank YOU for your work as an EMT; it’s people like you who have saved my life more than once.
Hey Stefan W, You're an asshat. Just so ya know. And anothe Capt. Obvious by proxy. Twat. If ya ain't got nothing constructive to say, shut the hell up much?
The towers here are Liebherr 355/500HC which have a vertical male to female spigot to align and 2 pins in sheer per corner to carry the load, clearly ALL pins had been pulled in preparation for dismantle. The spigots only have around 300mm of engagement, gravity and some friction was all that held it there, wind over came these 2 forces with tragic results.. These cranes withstand huge windloadings normally, with neither a jib or counter jib the crane would be in a very safe state at the time if correctly pinned. They go up in stages, they must come down the same way.
The pins are really thick, the plates where they fit are also really strong. I honestly can't comprehend the amount of force you'd need to apply to shear one of these pins.
I worked on plenty of crane assembly and disassemble with iron workers they don't pull pins usually unless you tell them I'm operating engineer the iron workers that I worked with were all good local 4 operators local 7 iron workers Boston mass
A good analysis AvE. As a former first responder these type of incidents can really mess with you, so you’ve got to use your EAP for mental health management. Thanks for the video.
I'm sure they were told to pull pins did they have a pin puller that they needed on a different job did they use sledgehammer and b and o who knows they were told to pull pins
I work with trains, and have had to take a hard look at some incidents. It's amazing, amaziingly unfortunate, how things can add up to a loss-of-life situation. With the gantry and counterweights on it, remarkably stable. In a hurry one day, and people think that the system can handle one thing. Then someone can decide it doesn't need any (or take them all out for the disassembly, so we don't need guys up-and-down). So you take the live load off, which means less force for the wind to move it around. When people want to knowingly take something out of the safety chain, I point out you know what you're doing there, but there's also the thing you didn't catch. It's all fun and games until someone dies, and then the NTSB (not sure what you canuckleheads have up there) and the lawyers get involved. You get deposed. You get questioned, and if you can answer everything clearly, you're an idiot or lying. There's often one head-scratcher, and a series of unfortunate events (it was reported, no action taken. Or the operator did something they can do, but nobody expected. The crew ran late, and one no-show was the watchman. Someone tagged-out the wrong breaker, and didn't do a hot-stick).
As a mechanic i fully stand by your hypothesis of the pins being removed. That crane would look far far worse than it does now if i had broken metal doesny flex like that very well without weakening it.
There's going to be some jail time and huge fines from this mess. Looking at this I'm not even sure what the Hall will do about representing these guys, and they are my Union Brothers even if they're from a different local in a different country (I'm from Northern Ontario). I'd be willing to bet dollars to donuts that you're right with the pins being pulled early and in the nose bags (tool bags as you called them). Their is procedure for erection and disassembly of tower cranes from every manufacturer, especially from Liebherr. They have spec. and procedure for everything right down to re-painting. They should have been a pre-lift meeting and sign off, were everyone involved would have had a say if they thought something wasn't right or correct. So whether that happened or not someone made the call to tell them to do it that way. In Canada the fines for such an accident start at $50 000 for each person involved. I'm not sure what they're going to be in Washington, but with multiple fatalities not likely will they start with any minimums. Regardless of what comes of it it's still a tragedy that no one's coming out of unscathed. Thanks for shedding some light on the situation, I'm sure not many of us saw all of these details we see in this video.
@@jennicorbus5304, extreme willful negligence might result in jail time. He brought up the case of a job where the safety guy literally told a GC to get his guys out of a trench that was not shored up because it was a violation and super dangerous. The GC told the safety guy to go to hell and sent his workers in, and then the trench collapsed killing a worker. The instructor said that GC might be brought up on criminal charges because he was so belligerent in his actions. But the OSHA fine would have only been for having no shoring in a trench. There would likely be a civil suit for the death, but that would be a private matter. I never really hear about people going to jail for these tragedies.
This is Seattle, so I would expect all the usual safety meetings happened as recommended. They even schedule these dismantles for Saturdays to minimize the number of workers onsite (otherwise they may send most home). Leaving the real question of...what happened the day of?
@@Thomas-wn7cl Makes sense in a way. OSHA fines you for what you do, not for what the outcome is. You don't shore a trench and you get away with it, it's a fine. You don't shore a trench and somebody sprains a knee in a minor incident, still a fine. Workman's comp is a separate issue. Don't shore a trench and somebody gets killed, still a fine. Wrongful death is a separate issue.
Really good videos mate. Your ability to take a few pictures and give good theories is fantastic. Root cause of failures is still something so many workplaces ignore.
Ave your analysis is spot on !! keep doing what you are doing learning all the time thank you. On this subject ,I can't understand why some guys on here keep implying that they think the the pins were NEVER installed ? they are so WRONG!! The tower crane would never have passed numerous inspections ,let alone pick a load up. without the pins installed it would have fallen over straight away, the pins were palled after the jib was taken off
My engineering professor always said that the best place you can be if something you built goes wrong, is directly under it. I feel that applies to this. Seem like a simple, stupid mistake that cost lives.
Rig setup and tear down is usually performed by the Ironworker raising gang. Usually the raising gang is tight and very familiar with each other and the rigs they assemble and disassemble. Everyone knows all the moves and it’s all supervised by the gang pusher, crane operator and Oiler, yard mechanic and job superintendent. Having done this work in NYC I find it unfathomable that such a mistake could be made.
People have said the same about aviation accidents like a "simple" stall where a pilot for whatever reason reacted incorrectly & crashed the plane. I guess similar can happen in any industry.
I’m a union ironworker, and this accident has resonated heavy with the International in DC as well as every union ironworker out in the field. He is correct. And all the teachers at the union hall have shown the video to students explaining why and how things went wrong and what not to do. Essentially everything this man says in this video is correct. Very sad tragedy. RIP Andrew Wayne L86 RIP Travis Corbet Local 29
Andrew Wayne is displayed on Yoder's FakeBook, He told me his name was Yoder and that's the name that was released when the dust had settled. Still, a tragedy. Semper Fi, Marines!
This might be my new favorite news channel. Well informed. Both of what you know and of what you don't. You stay somber about what matters. You can go off on a tangent that it would take 3 college profferess to think up and all the while you're entertaining.
I dont work with cranes,but I am an engineer in the Materials Handling Industry and we never have any issues involving a machines structual integrity failing ( unless impacted by missuse ) only ever mechanics,electrics,engine issues plugs with water ingress etc etc,but Ive always found that at the root of all "incidents" it boils down to a person or persons either having not done something they shouldve done or doing something they shouldnt have done! Great work as always AvE 👍🍺
This video'll be cited in the criminal negligence case against the company what was operating those cranes, no doubt. Transparent and detailed exposition of the clearly evident available facts.
nah, there won't be any video in court done by some goof. The video will be by some certified Professional Engineer who will say in very technical and un-impeachable terms the same thing the goof did.
Wouldn't the pins be stuck ridged until the weight was taken off them? also for the pins at roof level to have been removed wouldn't that have called for the ground crane to have took the weight of the whole above roof level crane? could it even do that, wouldn't it over balance it? plus why would you start at the bottom and work up?
The actual way leighberr does this is a slotted collar and a tapered center pin with nut which when the nut is tightened expands the collar. No way they would fail, no way they fall out without a ton of work. Both require many heavy hammer swings to remove. 8 total per section.
@@bowins7895 from the pics, looks like those still in place didn't budge, and the sections are only slightly damaged from impact, and not at all by what made it topple
@@GodzillaGoesGaga Indeed. $70K, $25K and $12K from 3 companies. Pitiful amounts. The criminal investigation is underway and no doubt there will be serious charges considering they know exactly what happened. Private law suits are pending too.
I agree with your assessment. It really is obvious what must have happened. They pulled to many pins The wind push on the mast and the normal slack in the fittings was used up and they simply slipped out. What were they thinking?? Hundreds of feet of mast with no attachment other than gravity fit??? That is a manslaughter by negligence Charge Give them 20 years minimum.. Their defense will be " We tried our best." Who knew the wind would come up"? "Worked Ok before." Strictly prohibited in the instructions manual. " we don't need that" "There wasn't any instruction manual"." It got lost somewhere" On and on it goes. I seen a 500 ton mobile wreck because they felt they could overide the safety instruction manual while moving it.. All of them lost their homes and still owed huge. Insurance crucified them. Good men. Yeah right! Nobody got hurt on that one. Thank God.
You do such an amazing job pointing out the obvious in these type of videos. I just can't understand HOW this happens! Rules and regs are in place for a reason. I guess it like you said, lazy. I would gladly go up and down stairs all day for what they get paid, ya know . Keep up the good work. AVE 2020!
I was down there just before it went. I’m on Mercer in that time frame every Saturday and Sunday, probably a lot of people can say that. Hard to come to terms that POW! it can all be over in a split second with no control. My heart goes out to the folks who’ve lost someone, what a tragedy. Life is too short so I’m buying more AVEwerkz stickers.
General Malarky sadly your right, no doubt will be in some future safety book to show students the seriousness of cutting corners and what the outcome could be. Thankfully one other commenter said the mother and baby survived with minor injury, but feel for the others who weren’t so lucky.
@@number1bobo It is truly amazing when you are in your car minding your own business and suddenly tons of steel falls from the sky and cuts your car in half. But you and your baby get out with only minor injuries. It does enhance your faith in some higher power, regardless of what the name your particular deity is called.
I’m a proud union man But I’ve been to too many funerals of guys killed on the job in every case but 1 the cause was a white hard hat running on borrowed time. I’m one of those white hard hat now. My nightmares of what happened to my friends is the motivation I use to make sure none of my guys ever has to think about what I think about every day and dream about every night. 1. Safety of the civilian 2. Safety of my self and coworkers 3. Structural safety of property and equipment 4. Everything else!
Bullshit! Union Employees themselves take the short cuts as they always believe they know better than management when it comes time for "the quit". However, when the job first starts, or they are on straight time, they'll cite every rule in the book to upper management to slow down the job.
TrakSpock1 i’ll put my union crew up against your nonunion crew any day of the week. Safety and production I work for a company that is union by choice According to our industry Association. Our production numbers are the highest in the nation hands down
TrakSpock1 some numbers for you I personally have managed safely 500,000 Man hours accident free and under budget meeting or exceeding union and nonunion production rates.
There's not much chance they would be able to get them pins out with the weight of the structure In place, that leads to a scary proposition that they could have never been installed in the first place
When the crane, as stated in the video, has an hydraulic section to assist in errection of the crane, then they could have used that to take the load of the pins. I think it is safe to say that during dismantleing, they took out all the pins to save time. If it was a chemical incident, the CSB would have a report on this within 5 months.
I used to be a mechanic for construction equipment, thus erecting and fixing cranes was amongst my duties. As soon as I saw the structure came apart exactly like it's put together, I knew there were no pins fixating the parts whatsoever. Then when you've shown the pinhole struts as undamged as they were, there is no way in hell that the pins even used to be in their place when the crane toppled. Even when you remove the safety nuts off the pins, as soon as the wind hits the crane and it starts to bend slightly, the pins get jammed in their holes and go nowhere. Major fuckup on the foreman's side, or whoever had the idea to remove all of the pins prior to deconstruction. And a very well done analysis by you.
Late to the game here but I cannot think of a clearer representation of "nothing happens until something happens". Tragedy some lives have had to be lost for something entirely preventable. Let's hope something good will come out of this and the lessons are learnt. Keep up the good work!
I don't work with cranes but I do and have flown heavy arsed stuff over peoples heads (concert rigs), we never ever de-pin a thing until the crew boss/foreman signs off that it comes down and when we dismantle a freestanding pinned structure it is very methodical and only de-pin it as we take that part out and never more than that... AvE I am with you on your analysis of this it is a a tragedy and a totally preventable one.
Please be mindful that families and first responders might be here looking for answers. Please keep it civil lads.
we will
Copy roger
Thoughts are with them. Appreciate your input as always.
@@georgefloydhadasthma9133 roger and out or maybe after this video
Having looked at tower crane failures. Usually its a failure to follow procedure vs failure, These failures are usually caused because the pins were removed first before the section. They should have prepared the section then removed the pins. 20 foot sections....... remember if it failed more than 20 feet up they didn’t follow procedure. Lots of court behind this comment. OSHA\
If anything AVE says "safety rules are written in Blood " is the most resonating and sadly too true
Dan T It’s true in aviation, too. Probably in the maritime industry as well, but that’s not something I know much about.
I've heard that a many of times, Here in ontario's chemical plants.
The green book ought to be red IMO.
Dan T So true, and yet so often we hear complaints of “government overreach” and the wimpification of society. We learn these lessons the hardest way, but still forget.
I work 8n Natural Gas and our safety man first said it to me. Even when all goes right Murphy may say otherwise.
As a former ironworker, no pins are removed without the foreman and superintendent telling them to do it. Pin, removal is a major event, everyone on site knows it.
AvE, didn't you say right off the first that the pins couldn't be driven in unless the section was supported? How could they have been removed w/o said support crane doin its job?
@@duckslinger999 After the Westray bill you can even be held *criminally* responsible.
Section 217.1 of the criminal code : "Every one who undertakes, or has the authority, to direct how another person does work or performs a task is under a legal duty to take reasonable steps to prevent bodily harm to that person, or any other person, arising from that work or task."
@@OldCurmudgeon3DP what?? he clearly shows the two support cranes right next to the fallen down one. they've had support cranes the entire time
@@PlatypusVomit my thoughts as well.
@@OldCurmudgeon3DP Seems those pins would have had to have been out since the get go. This seems so far over the top in how this could occur as the pins could only be removed or put in while the sections above have the weight relieved by another crane. Being so sure points to them never having been installed and would be awesome if someone in area had security cams that caught when the crane was erected or someone was videoing the event and maybe could help prove what happened. Deep pockets is going to attract a ton of wrongful death lawyers.
This is the kind of incident that everyone wants to sweep under the rug and say nothing.
Telling the story can help prevent similar disasters in the future. Thanks for laying down the story and the moral AVE.
With the lawsuits flying Nothing will be swept under the rug.
I work in the cell tower industry. In a time crunch the FIRST thing the higher ups want to ignore is safety. 100% of the time.
I really appreciate everyone adding to this thread. While i knew that my own experience with safety really left a lot to be desired, I'm surprised at how many different trades and professions share my sentiments. It's too bad really..
The Military does it too. 28+ years in the Navy, I can attest to that...
I watched my BOSS climb out of a Genie Lift basket and one hand change a lamp 20' in the air. insane
Damn right. The amount of deaths in the tower industry are extremely high as well. Far higher than other positions in the construction industry. I was a tower rigger for a few years with some of my friends. Tough and dangerous work. There was no safety back then.
I agree, they do this all the time in the construction industry.
Matt Lewis. hey girl hows it going?
My friend, Andrew Yoder, was one of the iron workers that died. I've just been devastated since the collapse. His wife and two children need help to get through this and we're going to be trying to help out any way we can. I'm really still at a loss of words and I'm an emotional wreck. Andrew was the nicest and most generous people.
❤️😒
Dammit dude I'm sorry that's terrible. I really hope you can take it with you, and use your experience to help prevent it again. I've lost friends for military service and motorcycles, and they all suck horribly, have to learn to accept and embrace it, it gets easier but never goes away
It’s a little late first time I ever saw this but Yoder was one of my boys wrecked me and still does brother
I’m sorry to hear of the loss of your friend. God needed him. I’m sorry. Remember his best moments. Big hug bro!
I did construction for 30 years I have to say what you say makes perfect sense it looks like you're totally correct
...I agree too. He give a very reasoned explanation.
@David Daivdson I come from a construction family (I know people who worked on the excavation portion of this site) and it still makes sense. That said, Seattle/Washington will be in major a$$ covering mode. Because not only is there the pin situation, but the street below should have been closed but apparently Seattle didn't require or permit it (and very possibly denied a request from the construction company). There will be spin...abetted by the pandering local fish wrapper.
@David Daivdson they're going to pin the blame on the two ironworkers killed
@@ColdPillowz undoubtedly...
@@ColdPillowz Marines. Follow orders they are given. No matter what the results. Did these two iron workers sacrifice themselves for the company?
My dad died on a construction site 6 weeks ago today when a rock fell off a truck and hit him in the head. He was 49. Seeing this really affects me, because I know there are some families out there with a lot of questions and a lot of hurt.
Stay safe out there, folks. And hug your son.
Sorry for your loss. thank you for being brave enough to share your story, there is always someone that needs to hear their not alone
There are so many unctrolled factors that thrive on jobsites. As a fellow trades man I feel your loss, it's extremely devestating. You and yours will be in my prayers. Godbless.
Sorry for your loss my friend. No words can comfort but condolences none the less. I'm positive he was a great man. God be with him, you and yours. Rest in peace.
Very sorry to read of your loss .
I'm sorry for your loss, I hope you are getting through okay. You're not alone in the loss of loved ones and in the confusion of not knowing why or how it could've been prevented. Everyone goes through it eventually. My mom committed suicide about 1 month ago and I had never been so confused and shocked in my life. So many questions that I'll never know the answer to. The best way to move on is to just let the past be in the past and look to your own future and surround yourself with people who love and care about you. There's always going to be a light in the dark that will light the path. Goodluck to you.
Those pins are stress-relieved alloy steel, stonger than grade 8 bolts. The truss itself would fail long before the pins
True. And I agree. I used to be in the heavy tow industry. We had a terrible time with what was suppose to be a certain grade poping like M80's and shearing. We checked the markings and they seemed legit till we actually stress tested them and found them to be chinese manufactured fakes sold by a reputable store.
@@ellkir1521 damn, I'd be pissed once i recovered from my shock
I am also thinking that the insurance carrier requires following a written procedure with sign offs.
@@ellkir1521 Counterfeit fasteners have attempted find their way into military weapons systems as early as the late 70's and early 80's.
If its steel made in China the heat treating process isn't nearly as strong as its supposed to be
Looks like you know what you were talking about.
"The preliminary findings from the Department of Labor and Industries was released in October and found that the collapse was caused by the premature removal of more than 50 pins between the tower crane sections."
I think any of us who has put a boot in the mud on a jobsite already knew this. Very clear, utter f*** up to the highest degree. I simply can't understand why someone...not one f*****g person didn't go bullshit screaming for someone to stop taking them out/get the pins back in etc. The guys taking them out didn't know any better? Are you f***** shitting me? Is everyone on that jobsite numb from the shoulders up? It makes no sense. None.
I wonder at the end of the day who's fault that would be?? because it seems to me in an operation like that it would be super easy for a average joe worker to be on a radio and get a call like "Hey, Joe go ahead and knock those pins out in your section..." he thinks okay and does what he is told assuming somebody on the other end knows what the frigg they are doing... but little did he know they radioed Joe, Larry, Moe, and Curly and then some more all at the same time....
I am no kind of crane operator but the jeezless stuff aint rocket surgery seems super obvious to me that you would go small sections from the top down on disassembly.
Yupppp .... thanks Captain OBVIOUS!!
From the collapse mechanism it seems they must of knocked the pins out the base. Pretty fucking bad. 50 pins, 8 pins per level is min six levels. Wonder if install documentation is online
Its all common sense. That's all it is man use your common Canadian industrial sense💪
I am a tower crane operator of 20 something years. I know what happened here. I’ve shut down jobs to prevent exactly this.
The erectors (iron workers) were cutting corners and were trying to finish quickly. They shouldn’t have been working in the wind and they most definitely should not have removed all the bolts. Loosening is one thing but removing is insane.
The parties to blame here are the operator for allowing it to happen. The technician for agreeing to it and the foreman for the erectors (iron workers) pushing for it.
What a needless tragedy.
EDIT: Fantastic work AvE. Thank you.
prison terms are what these people need.
Thanks for the insider's expert opinion.
The guy(s) who pulled the pins out could also have refuse to do it. In my opinion they should have known better. They were properly trained to do that kind of work. They knew it wasn’t safe to do it. They should take some of the blame too, but much less than their boss...
Terrible accident 100% preventable. Criminal negligence at so many levels...
it was reported on local TV news, here in Seattle, that the bldg was woefully behind schedule. Perhaps, somebody was cutting corners to speed up the operation of dismantling.
Forgive a dumb question, but why would pins be loosened/removed ever? Or were they finished and taking the crane down?
Sometimes, you have to have the balls to say NO, and if they push, walk away, and if it's bad enough, tell someone who can stop them. Yes, I've caught shit and even got fired from a job for pointing out dangerous practice. I'll do it again. Just had a customer who likes to shut the emergency generator down during packed events so 'it don't make the lights flash and noise and smoke'. The generator runs among other things, the emergency egress lighting and the fire pump. I pointed out the error of his ways. Also had high rise where the building management blew me off on how the system performs. The good fight is not an easy fight, but please people, have the balls to fight it.
I wish this was the top comment. If you are a professional and you are told to do something contrary to your training and your judgement and it's going to put people at risk you have a moral obligation to say no.
quit and been fired several times for calling BS, will do again without hesitation
For this reason I don't go to certain venues here in the city. Especially if it's with kids. If the shit hits the fan and it's a massive clawing for the exit in smoke and noise, I have a mediocre chance of making it by myself because I'm a strong bastard. No way if I have the wife or kid in tow.
I live just outside Portland OR and there are too many shows I would like to go to in converted ballrooms. Often multiple flights of relatively narrow and steep stairs, only one way out and it's just not worth it to me. I've skipped concerts because of the crap setup.
@@adamruck Lots of folks get told the enginerds are too conservative.
"I has pulled these pins like this a thousands times mee laddie.. dont be a readin the manual now. Those boys never had to builds a buildin' and they be momma's boys at heart.. grow a pair and pull them damn pins and we'll be home for the game. "
And then people die including the lad listening to the old timer. The problem is to many people live thru a few of these old stories just fine... and then they get up against the design limit on a blustery day.. and the whole thing goes to shit. Just because it worked once, or twice or even a hundred times... doesn't make it safe to cheat the rules.
Saving money but at what cost? Its all nice and dandy till shit hits the fan and then all you get is raised eyebrows and people pointing finger at whos the blame...
The sections are in doubles, 2 sections per. That's how they take them down to save some time, they end up 39 feet long ( metric actual). You see the unions that they didnt remove pins all held together despite the abuse of falling and snashing. If the pins were in this crane could easily withstand 100 mph wind. You can see they removed pins every other. Sad to see trying to save time and cut corners. This isn't manufacturer spec removal, they didn't follow proper procedure for dismantle.
As I said elsewhere, I believe this was a combination of factors: Ignorance, complacency, laziness, and incompetence. Occam's Razor often hits home.
Yep I see it now! All the sections laying on the roof and the one on the ground are doubles. How did they get all those pins out without the support crane lifting the weight off?
The industry is busy right now They probably gave the job to a guy that wasn't ready and didn't think through and double check his work.
A foreman must himself triple check what his leadmen double checked, you just have to.
The process should have been thought out multiple times starting weeks before the date for dismantle.
@@aluisious Fines are just fees to make crimes legal.
@@justinryker3264 probably never put em in
As someone who works in the occupational safety and health field in the US, I cannot tell you how much I appreciate this video. This is the type of stuff we need our technical minds shining the light on. This type of thing should never be swept under the rug of a settlement or obfuscated by legal smoke and mirrors. The news will never offer coverage like this. I have been watching AvE for years now, and this video only makes me respect you more. Thank you, AvE, for your unapologetic assertation on matters such as these.
I once helped take down a tower crane, hired help through the union. Basically there to help speed the project up. In addition to technicians that worked for the company that owned the tower, we were also there to help with disassembly. Needless to say, I asked the foreman why the technician was taking pins out 3 sections below us, as we were 200 feet in the air. He looks the other way. I no longer work for the union. In addition too, when i saw this accident on the news and saw all the sections on the ground, i knew exactly what happened.
OUCH!
@@elektrolyte I have seen a lot of questionable things out in the field.
Yea so nobody works "for" the union.
I’m curious if it’s difficult to remove the pins in the lower sections? I would imagine they don’t just slip out of the holes on sections that are several segments lower than the crane would be relieving the strain...
@@davidgrosshauser5268 the pins are super hardened, so even when they are bearing a large load there isnt a huge amount of friction holding the pin into the hole. you wouldnt be able too pull it by hand but youd be able to tap it out
The pins would have had to shear out of the tube frame as the tubing would be the first point of failure. The solid pins and solid connecting bars would take a comparatively insane amount of force to yield (20x-100x). The extra few hours that would have been saved pale in comparison to losing lives. The only good that will come out of this is that every foreman in the country who has a tower crane on their job spent today looking over their towers to make sure this won't happen to them. Unfortunately, we have short-term memories and 2 years from now it will be business as usual...
Sadly it would have been minutes saved, not hours.
There was no time saved by removing those pins ahead of time,they probably did it for busy work while the other crane was setting up.
If people want to take shortcuts that put their own health or lives in danger, I guess that's on them. I can't fathom a mentality that puts your coworkers or innocent bystanders in mortal peril because you're in a hurry.
Patrick Herron that exactly what speaking in general means. It’s implied not implicated fact.
Very good video you have here chief. Your video on the bridge collapse in Florida is what turned me on to your channel.
Keep the good work tough guy.
That was also a great analysis.
Hey Man, the three dudes in white at 10:08 are Seattle Fire Medic 1 Paramedics. They are based out of the Hospital I work in.
I work on cranes for a living you are right there were. No pins
As fantastic as that is, no other answer works.
I think it's the sad truth
Truly negligence in the part I who removed the pins but Some other violations I you said 40mph wind violates crane protocallyou have to measure wind speed at top operators can be held as legally responsible as owners operator has the last say it to much wind he's supposed to dingy the pick according to the occ crane class I sat. Through
@@herschelrowe6026 yea.....B 30.3 and OSHA has 20mph restrictions on wind, during erection and dismantling.
No pins
Looking at crane collapses you commonly see steel bending and buckling or entire cranes coming down with sections intact.
You never see sections coming apart like that, your analysis seems spot on.
No doubt, the pins were out. The "why" is going to be hard to pull out of the participants.
It's going to be a lawyered up decade and a half clusterfuck of parties pointing fingers back and forth. The real truth will likely never be known and covered under reports and waivers.
@@hillie47 Yep, I fear you are right. I am a construction defect expert (residential stuff) and even these relatively little cases can go on for years. They almost all finally resolve privately, with sealed records. Even when they result in wrongful death actions.
The why is pretty easy, the workers were ordered to do it. It's not something one regular guy just decides to do.
Looks like a series of failures which is typical of preventable disasters. They didn't account for the high forecast wind conditions. They wanted to remove the sections in pairs which isn't standard procedure (2x time saving) and critically decided to remove every pair's pins all the way down (Save even more time). They likely relied on the supporting crane to keep it from swaying in wind but then the wind speed got too high and they disconnected or did not attach. After that it would have been too dangerous/impossible to put the pins back and the sustained high winds made the collapse inevitable which would mean they also neglected to evacuate workers and nearby roads. The moment the supporting crane ran into too high wind speeds to assist they should have evacuated the crane operators and closed off the roads around the building.
@@mattburkett9419 I am sure you are right, but ... ahh, but the exact words, by whom?... when? before the wind started? you get the idea... I hope AvE is right, and "new" safety protocols will be written, and enforced, at least for a while.
So glad you are doing this. Responding to real life engineering failures. It will be months before the official version comes out, and, then, it's......maybe the truth, and distilled into half a sentence in the 5 o'clock news. More people seeing it means more people learn from it, and more lives are spared.
to be clear, it wasn't an engineering failure, as it wasn't properly affixed... if all the pins were in and this happened, then it would be an engineering failure..
This is a process / assembly failure
"engineering failure?" You mean "management mistake," right?
I hear you guys. The point is, someone watching this video could avoid tragedy at a future date. It is the responsibility of everyone involved, from the engineer to the guy throwing scraps in a barrel, imho.
"Codes are written in blood." That line has stuck with me after hearing it at a NFPA 70e training a few years back. So true.
As for EMT's and Police, on my kids hockey team, a couple of the parents do that work, both full time and volunteer. We've had plenty a late night drinking in the hallways of the hotels at tournaments discussing the aftermath of fires, accidents, and shootings. Not a pretty sight, but they all say they have plenty of help with therapists.
NFPA 70e? Oh nice. I've helped produce a handful of NFPA training materials while my sister now does course development. A really long time ago my mom did expert consulting work for NFPA 72 and public education like NFPA kids and FEMAs Ready Kids. Most of the course work is of course fire fighter training though.
@@Furiends My employer sent a handful of us for some training more or less to make sure we recognize hazards as an operational group. Electrical maintenance falls to outside contractors, but being on the safety committee it was an eye opening training. Good Stuff.
@@ericgulseth74 having been involved in a couple of NFPA 30 and 30A (flammable liquids and service stations) revision sessions, I was noticing the start of capture of the committees by corporate interests that can afford to send delegates to exotoc venues, but the AHJs and the enforcers on the street are frequently on a shoestring travel budget from the city and can't show up to put in their two cents worth. NFPA codes are consensus codes, but it is the committees that decide what changes will be put to the full membership for a vote.
Had the same thing for my oil/gas safe land card. As they said it, images of oil field injuries and deaths scrolled across the projector screen. Hell of a way to be introduced to the Bakken.
People become complacent I started the new jobs last week I was cleaning up but cleaning up I turn the propane off on the forklift the next day my boss went to use the forklift it would not start I should wait a minute let me turn the fuel on I got my ass chewed for turning the fuel off. All in the name of convenience too f****** lazy to turn the valve on in the morning after one more day I found myself looking for a new job!
Worked in a lumber mill. I’d get chewed out if I forgot to turn the tank off. You can’t rely on the carb to seal 100%. Same thing for the oxygen and acetylene tanks...
Marley Brown
If he fired you and you are in USA contact labor commission that was a illegal termination
I've been around enough equipment that even my dumb@$$ knows you shut off the damn gas.
Never change your ethics. I'm a stickler for safety as well. I've run across some people that have been "inconvenienced" by it. But, guess what? I have a soft pillow at night.
@@marleybrown4554 In the UK too it would be unfair dismissal. Take it to a tribunal and your former boss would get ripped to shreds.
" "safety rules are written in Blood" ==> aka: "Tombstone Regulations".
Full disclosure: I am a big union supporter.
All worker safety regulations are paid for in blood. Every single one of them.
It's the same with all. It first has to go upside down for something to change. We worked in the backyard of our boss (we were a three men company) my buddy had the great idea to take a spade and cut with it through a possible life 230v (ger) wire. Later that day the wife of my boss told me that an electritian told her that a wire that is no longer connected through the fuse can have a rest of voltage... Yeah I called bulls on both occasions.
That's a fact. When I was in the CG, my ship had a 5" 38 cal cannon of WWII vintage. Up in the turret, much of the actual gun mechanism was painted red, as opposed to Navy gray. Every splash of red paint indicated a part of the cannon that had killed or maimed someone on the crew. Not necessarily *that* specific gun, but historically, over the life of the cannon.
Really drove home the message that being inside one of these was dangerous as hell.
Uncle Bumble, your engineering analyses are beyond comparison
Agreed. It's always interesting to watch AVE's interpretation into the situation and get his analysis. I hope you continue to do so.
As an Ironworker I can tell you that you nailed the cause. This is exactly what happened. A good analysis.
Negligent Homicide charges should be brought against any supervisor if indeed it was found that they were cutting corners and breaking standards.
Likely the perps are the ones that died.
Also the worker imo
Willful negligence
Construction companies are being set up and using workers as pawns especially with the HR and cronie hiring practices get ready. Just like setting wildfires. Be well.
"The safety rules are written in blood"
Sadly that's a true statement.
1. Schedule
2. Budget
3. Safety
In that order, sad to say.
you got 1 and 2 mixed up
My old boss always used to say you could have two out of the three, you would never run on budget, on time and with full safety requirements implemented. That’s what happens when bean counters submit the bids for work instead of experienced managers who give time to rigorous safety testing. You win the work on price and then folk wonder why the workers are forced to cut corners 🤷🏻♂️
Safety third unfortunately
Bonus! It's all about the bonus, schedule then budget. Safety and environment are always last on the list.
@Rata 4U "If you enjoy having a few beers every weekend"
And how exactly are you going to legally prevent them from having a few beers every weekend?
As long as they aren't "legally drunk" on the job, there's nothing you can do to stop them from having a few beers on weekends.
Alcohol goes out of the blood stream in 12 hours tops. So they can happily have a drink at 6pm Sunday and arrive at work 6am Monday and not have any trace of alcohol in their bloodstream.
Sure, you can check if they have consumed alcohol via a urine sample or by checking their hair follicles... But you still have to have a valid and legal reason to lay off a worker on the basis that they are legally drinking outside of their work.
That being said, of course you can also legally fire someone for turning up to work with a hangover every monday. Which is why most sane people have drinks on Saturday and leave Sunday to recover.
If you fire people for having a drink on weekends which is a perfectly legal and socially acceptable endeavor then you won't have an organization for too long.
EDIT: Unless of course you are situated in Saudi Arabia or similar... If that's the case then... Allahu akbar i guess?
I've been on sites 3 different times when cranes collapsed. One at Satsop#3 when Chicago Bridge & Iron had their unit collapse, and two mine jobs in New Mexico. One with Bechtel and the other with Sundt. Not anything I'd want to watch or experience again. At Satsop the guy wire sliced a truck in half. Like a knife through butter. A dangerous job that needs perfection in it's operation.
Hmmm... so you seem to be the common denominator in the three collapses 🤔
I was working with Bechtel in Texas when one of the cranes went down.
@@SWhite-hp5xq Liberty is right, how many people work on those cranes and do you know what role he actually had? Plus considering 2 of his experiences were in a country with generally lower level workers as well as his work experience could have been long enough that shit happens.
@@somename1324 New Mexico is a US State ;)
@@rotorhead5826 "There's a NEW Mexico?" -Homer Simpson
Nuclear Enginerd here, I was told by our crane guy that cranes have at least a safety factor of seven (7) so that they don't have to do the really hard math like cyclic loading.
*Edit:* this applies only for the below-the-hook devices (I think). I am mis-remembering things because I was doing cyclic-loading tests at the time, so it might not even be about cyclic loading.
Neat. Purposeful overbuilding to be able to cut out other complex operations and calculations.
I'd have to ask my dad, but that's about the figure I remeber. My dad was/is an ME with a major O&G, one of the crane experts for the company. It's crazy how well built they are and the safety factors that go into them.
@@1320crusier on top of that, the way they're rated, the number they're rated at is the MOST they can do, in a best case scenario (on a mobile crane at least) so that safety factor is that much better.
@@bradhaines3142 isnt the safety rating the minimum they can do ?
@@RobertsBiezais in the us, not on cranes. thats the max, at best case scenario (boom in, at the best angle, over the cab). so what it can do only goes down from there.
an off-road forklift thats rated for 20,000 pounds, boom all the way out and up, can only pick up 500 or less. that's not a typo, it really does go down to 500, not 5000. anything more than that and the back tires start coming up, ive seen it myself
What are the odds some know it all thought he could shave some time by getting those pins out thinking the weight of the crane would have been good enough to keep it together. Probably wouldn't have been the first time they did it but the first time in high wind. Some guys just refuse wrap their heads around safety. I'd imagine everyone has worked with that guy at least once.
@TheRetiredtrucker And most sycophants are just plain "good little boys".
Well how many times did they do this without issue and thought they did it before and it never fell. Scary.
@@Ryan-re1rs It could just as likely be the first time, "It'll be fine and I'll look great for the boss".
It wasn't even high wing.
Huh? Without the pins, that thing is falling over, every day if the week.
Looks like you are right about the pins having been removed. When you get to 9:30 , those aren't connection pins and that isn't a section connection. Look at the pin holes on the other solid couplings, they are farther apart from each other. Those look like threaded bolts . If that was a connection of two sections , you don't see a place to have two pin holes on the left section of what you're implying is a connection. If the pins were in when it separated, they would most likely remained in that solid connection piece and would have torn through the thinner box beam of the section . What looks like a gap in what you are suggesting is an intact connection may be a string tied around. If all pins were in , it would have most likely failed only at its base. You do great work . Thank You.
Great detailed video. Thank you for also pointing out the PTSD this has on first responders and workers that also had to see this.
AvE, thanks as always when you put some of your thoughts to these images. Always good to have a running conversation about workplace issues that put people in danger, especially when the people in the firing line don't even know it.
5th in my family in the crane industry must say very accurate and impressed
Just came here to thank you for all the videos you've made. For all the things you've fixed, or fixed them until they were broke. You are truly an exceptional human! Keep on doing what you do, Bud!
I will be showing this video in my tech school class along with Big Blue . Thank you for the lesson.
I pretty sure this is the guy that could not use a multitool.... I would personally take everything he says with a pinch of salt
I think I will too
The latest interview released by a operator trainer said the exact same thing. He believes the pins were pulled in preparation of disassembly which blows my mind. AVE awesome video good sir!
That is amazing how pristine those inserts and coupled parts are.
The only ripped & torn sections were at just above roof level where the pins were removed and 2 of the inserts became the pivot point. New video of that section on a truck after disassembly was shown by Chanel 7 news and it is completely damning evidence that the pins were indeed pulled....
@@dalewalker4614 right! boss showed in his second video.... it was even pulled from one side of the box tube and pushed out on the other by the insert.
Growing up in Manhattan in the 80s I was at my dad’s deli on 53rd one day in 1982 when the world frelling exploded. A crane on Madison Ave had failed and somehow slammed into the granite work on the top of the 44 story building, tossing *_massive_* stone chunks onto 53rd street, right in front of the deli. Some of those stones punched through to the subway... that’s the kind of force that I can not adequately describe. The following scene was broken glass, debris, chaos and *_dust._* I’ll never forget it and when I talked to my dad about this Seattle collapse and asked what he remembered about _that day_ he asked which one I meant and started rattling off dates and streets where cranes fell around his city... I’d forgotten how often it happened (back then).
"frelling" Completely OT, with no disrespect to this terrible tragedy, I just have to say, hello fellow Farscaper! It's rare to encounter one out in the wild, these days.
Through the ground into the subway tunnels???
@@Duncan_Idaho_Potato Definitley we are a rare breed.
Dan L. - it was granite, not marble, and yes... after falling 45 stories the stone did the kind of damage you’d think were caused by bombs.
ProgHead777 - I love that I can openly use frell, frelling, dren etc. as replacement curses, no one is offended and the folk who know get it :)
"Hey boss, where are these pallet of pins supposed to go?"
I was a structural Ironworker in my junior years so I have some interest and knowledge. In 1997 I was driving in Seattle and noticed a tower crane being taken down. It was in a similar state as the one that fell. It didn't have a crane rigged to it and Ironworkers were down several sections of tower from the top and beating the pins out of the connections. I couldn't believe what I saw so I had to stop and look for a while thinking that I was missing part of the picture. But that was exactly what was happening. I drove away with a sick feeling and astonished that such a display of ignorance and stupidity could be happening in plain sight in a major city. If that was happening in 1997 it was probably happening before then and probably up until the accident.
I love your videos on engineering mishaps. You're the first and only person i wait for a video from. Thanks for doing these!
Anyone saying the pins were never installed just stop thinking. The crane would never made it a day setting iron. They do more than just keep the piece in place. There are lifting forces involved with these pins depending on where the load is. It also would not have made it through the multitude of regular inspections and pin nut torque checking
If you have ever been under looking up or on one of these you would know how they rock and move AND twist. Its something to get used to. More so when your up there. And 10 fold while counter weights and boom sections are being lifted away as the support crane takes the weight. If you are on one only a couple hundred feet high or less that you do not need to de-stack like it appears they were doing because of the size of the support and lack of a jin section.
When there is no load the forces are greater to the back and the pins on the opposite side are resisting a uplift sheer. And the opposite when its picking in the upper half of its load limits. This is a rolling effect of load changes as the top rotates. This crane does not just sit there balanced (i really laughed at that comment) common now Feed the gerble. There is a massive footing poured at the base of the building that it is attached to that usually just gets buried after the fact.
Ironworker
Thanks for the professional insight here!
No one said that. The implication is that the pins were removed early to hasten the disassembly.
Jim Stanley it was said but no one that knows the industry would give it a second thought. Pulling pins early... no doubt.
Always assumed they rocked more than I cared to know. Just never been close enough to see it first hand.
An especially massive footing under this building, it basically sits on a former lake bed.
Great discussions as usual. Surprising these things still happen with all the procedures and OHSA oversight on every construction project nowadays.
OSHA only makes the rules it's really up to the people on the ground to enforce and follow them.
Just to give an idea of how complex this investigation is going to be, the Washington Department of Labor and Industries has opened investigations into the four companies involved in taking apart the crane: GLY Construction, the general contractor; Northwest Tower Crane Service, a subcontractor that physically disassembled the crane into pieces; Omega Morgan, which removed sections with a smaller crane; and Morrow Equipment, which owned the tower crane
i was working at Lincoln square expansion a gly job installing elevators where they dropped a backing plate for a manlift which is like 16''x16''x2'' from nearly 400ft where it hit the deck above and blew out a 6ft piece of concrete in the ceiling with the rebar being the only thing keeping it from coming down
Have worked on GLY jobs, not the best contractor in Seattle
@@yesac101 IUEC?
D Bailey don’t be that guy, this a very irresponsible thing to say at a time like this.
What about the City of Seattle? Why wasn't the street closed? Nobody has said what closure permits the contractor requested vs. what they received, but either way the City should have required street closures (but obviously didn't). Half the deaths and all the injuries could have been prevented if the street had been closed.
Operating Engineer myself. Many, many times erecting and dismantling tower cranes. This is a great video. They clearly pulled the pins all at once. This is homicide, ladies and gentlemen. The shot of the fucking tool bag is a smoking gun.
I'm no engineer but I can see exactly the same thing you described.
I've assembled stage equipment weighing under 100 ton that has had the pins checked over by 3 separate people twice before it goes up. It only comes down when supported by something that takes the entire weight and is removed sectionally in a way that is fail safe.
It really boggles the mind how this could happen. I don't even really grasp how it would be possible to remove lower pins without lifting the weight of the crane off them. I find it hard to believe a worker would be pounding away at the lower pins with a sledge hammer without realising the danger.
Surely people on the job know the circumstances. I really hope the truth gets told.
same ive had part of a truck come down on my head from some dumb fuck taking bolts out when they shouldnt
Very interesting point about the removal of the lower pins under the structure weight.
@@Alexandre_0 could be independent sliders inside would allow for them to be shifted into place easier
@@aaronstorey9712 makes sense, thanks for the explanation
Is it possible the second crane could lift enough to take the tension off the lower sections? Still a terrible idea, but started disassembling the crane then had to call it off and forgot or didn't have time to put the pins back?
It appears you are correct. Those pins have been removed. With the jib and machinery deck removed (as that crane is), there is NO way that the wind alone could push that crane over if the tower was properly pinned. A freakin' hurricane couldn't knock that rig over. Liebherr cranes are about the stoutest machines in the world, like you said, them Germans build them strong and take no shortcuts.
Well I have built several cranes even taken them apart...... The shit I got for missing 1single pin is 1million dollar fine converted from Swedish currency...... And a cut license with 9year ban from taking a new...... And I feel for the ones that lost their life in this major accident😢
Missing as in forgetting to put it in or misplacing it?
Harsh lesson, but not half the lesson a lost life would be on your conscience.
@@Fridelain I totally forgot to place one pin due to time pressure.....
@@youtubasoarus yeah I know that😞 but still should have been a inspector checking each unit up on assembly as I had.....😐😐 But still accidents happes just sad that this one cost life of several people😥😔😔
When I took my forensic photography training, we had an instructor that showed us an investigation of a crane go-over. The pins had sheered, broken, and in a couple cases, "pied", by turning into broken, irregular pieces on the long axis. They found parts of pins in a 2.2mi radius, and, a lot of them were on top of buildings. Pins were never taken out of rotation (retired) and 2 were fake.
When I decided to search about news of a disaster that was local to me I ironically came to this channel; I've seen AvE post these kinds of videos before, and Didn't know whether or not AvE would touch bases with this horrendous incident. Thank you for supplying these photos bro; as soon as I saw those crane sections nearly completely intact, it is pretty evident the pins were all pulled from the crane. That frame is solid as hell (obviously seen, look at the MINIMAL damage on the crane segment on the ground). Thanks for the news AvE!
Spot on analysis of the situation based on the information available. This was a completely preventable tragedy. I spent 10+ years in public safety (EMS and then LE) - you're right, this kind of stuff sticks with you. My heart goes out to everyone involved.
I've been on these jobs sites in Seattle for nearly 30 years. This job is Block 25 and I personally did work here. I am very sad this happened. It's one thing to see it on the news but completely heartbreaking when you are connected to the project. My prayers go to everyone this impacts.
Crane operator checking in, prayers sent.
I don’t know how you crane operators do it. So much respect!
I operate mobile cranes, like the one that Ave referred to as a "ground based" crane. It's a fun job, but incidents like this bring things back to perspective.
They were Ironworkers dismantling the crane
You were correct. They prematurely removed the pins, while still in use.The investigation found they had removed 50 pins The crane separated when the wind kicked up. Removing the pins prematurely went against all manufacturers instructions.
INSANE to remove boom pins!!!!!.. Liebherr cranes as well as all mfgs have explicit method s to erect or disassemble. I have run cranes repaired for 30 years in NYC.
Never ever heard of anyone pulling erected boom pins premature .
Bizarre how booms not damaged implying pins out. You have a good point!
You seem to be correct on this.
All pins and welds boom sections are x-ray inspection annually and special ultra strong metals .
The boom and counterdeck were on the ground it was the tower that was unpinned and fell
That was not the boom that failed, it was the tower. Better yet, it was the person or persons that decided to remove the pins from the tower sections.
Jeff Flanagan Tower..my error. Either way insane to do so.
From an engineer, “Great analysis!”
No tag line? Just one cable? Doesn't make sense. So sorry for these people. Cranes are extremely dangerous, even small ones.
@@richardshortman5645 This disassembly would have been perfectly safe if the written procedures from the manufacturer had been followed. I am sorry for everyone involved as well.
Sarah was a classmate of my sons'. Very sad for our community. I had not seen any of the wreckage pictures before. Holy crap! At least it was quick. I don't know where the two steal workers were, but I hope they did not suffer either.
Thanks again for this video. I have always been amazed how they erect and un/dis erect these things.
I believe your conclusions are true, and that some yahoo got ahead of pulling some pins. And maybe they are among the casualties.
Also liked your analysis of that cement overpass collapse....
Very thoughtful analysis - definitely looks as though those pins were absent at the time of the collapse. Such a sad incident.
The nuts were were still on the anchor bolts at the base of the bottom section so at least they didn't take those loose also.
@@dennistaylor3762 Curious as to how you know that, as the base of the crane is 6 stories below the roofline where the crane fell?
@@dalewalker4614; When I was an Iron worker we used Morrow crane (the same co that owns this one) to assemble and dismantle their tower cranes when we rented them for a project,the technician they sent to oversee the work was a top notch pro and took no shortcuts.The first section of the tower is attached with embedded bolts to a huge concrete block that is poured in place with 90yds of high strength concrete.Our crane was much bigger than this one that went down and all connections were bolted and torqued to 1700lbs ant every connection,no pins were used and every 5wks the bolts all had to be re torqued and logged in a book that stayed with the crane.I've never seen a tower that was pinned at the concrete.I dont think these guys had a tech in assisting with the dismantling,there are over 50 tower crane spread out in and around Seattle so maybe there were no tech's to be had and they proceeded without one beings this is not a huge tower crane. They probably worked on taking down towers before and they went with what they had.The tower sections come on a truck in 40 foot sections( 2-20s pinned together) so those pins that held the two sections together had probably never been driven out since new so thats why every other section still had its pins in,they'd be real hard to drive out and there really is no need to.
I've worked as an EMT and you're right, it does stick with you. I remember every loss. Just want anyone here who may have been on site, there is help out there. There should be a first responders crisis line in your area. They'll listen. Many of them have worked in medical floors and ERs and understand what you're going through. Talk to them, please.
Stephen Steele, I feel for you, man. I was a court reporter for 22 years and had to mark photos as exhibits in these legal cases of mangled people, dead bodies, crime scenes. And, in order to keep the lawyers, witnesses, or jury from being affected by my reaction, I wasn’t allowed to even show a reaction. So I had to stuff it all deep inside. But when I’d get home, the tears would roll, and I’d let myself be sick. PTSD I guess they call it now. Not fun. And thank YOU for your work as an EMT; it’s people like you who have saved my life more than once.
I operate a crane and this is clearly the fult of the guys dismantling it.
Extremely obvious here.
I'm calling you captain obvious
Tom H, thanks for your insight. It mean's a lot. I first thought sabotage but your professional opinion has made me step back.
Tom H, I ruff necked in OK&TX when I was younger. Getting worm bit while rigging up & down was something we watched out for. Kept me alive.
Hey Stefan W,
You're an asshat. Just so ya know.
And anothe Capt. Obvious by proxy. Twat.
If ya ain't got nothing constructive to say, shut the hell up much?
Yes
The towers here are Liebherr 355/500HC which have a vertical male to female spigot to align and 2 pins in sheer per corner to carry the load, clearly ALL pins had been pulled in preparation for dismantle. The spigots only have around 300mm of engagement, gravity and some friction was all that held it there, wind over came these 2 forces with tragic results..
These cranes withstand huge windloadings normally, with neither a jib or counter jib the crane would be in a very safe state at the time if correctly pinned. They go up in stages, they must come down the same way.
The pins are really thick, the plates where they fit are also really strong.
I honestly can't comprehend the amount of force you'd need to apply to shear one of these pins.
@@animasaurus2007 You would probably need to hit the crane with a moderately sized aircraft to cause it to fail like this.
Thanks captain obvious, you just rehashed everything ave said
Excellent explanation in Layman’s terms. Thank you
Somebody wanted an early finish. I doubt they think it was worth it now.
You are assuming.
@@robertcornelius3514 With all due respect, why else would they remove the pins prematurely other than to shave some time on a Saturday and get home?
@@robertcornelius3514 45 years experience in the workplace permits me to do that.
I worked on plenty of crane assembly and disassemble with iron workers they don't pull pins usually unless you tell them I'm operating engineer the iron workers that I worked with were all good local 4 operators local 7 iron workers Boston mass
Saturday all double time why hurry
A good analysis AvE. As a former first responder these type of incidents can really mess with you, so you’ve got to use your EAP for mental health management. Thanks for the video.
All the safety rules in the world dont matter if people dont follow them. If someone pulled those pins they should be criminally charged.
I'm sure they were told to pull pins did they have a pin puller that they needed on a different job did they use sledgehammer and b and o who knows they were told to pull pins
I work with trains, and have had to take a hard look at some incidents. It's amazing, amaziingly unfortunate, how things can add up to a loss-of-life situation. With the gantry and counterweights on it, remarkably stable. In a hurry one day, and people think that the system can handle one thing. Then someone can decide it doesn't need any (or take them all out for the disassembly, so we don't need guys up-and-down). So you take the live load off, which means less force for the wind to move it around.
When people want to knowingly take something out of the safety chain, I point out you know what you're doing there, but there's also the thing you didn't catch. It's all fun and games until someone dies, and then the NTSB (not sure what you canuckleheads have up there) and the lawyers get involved. You get deposed. You get questioned, and if you can answer everything clearly, you're an idiot or lying. There's often one head-scratcher, and a series of unfortunate events (it was reported, no action taken. Or the operator did something they can do, but nobody expected. The crew ran late, and one no-show was the watchman. Someone tagged-out the wrong breaker, and didn't do a hot-stick).
As a mechanic i fully stand by your hypothesis of the pins being removed. That crane would look far far worse than it does now if i had broken metal doesny flex like that very well without weakening it.
There's going to be some jail time and huge fines from this mess. Looking at this I'm not even sure what the Hall will do about representing these guys, and they are my Union Brothers even if they're from a different local in a different country (I'm from Northern Ontario). I'd be willing to bet dollars to donuts that you're right with the pins being pulled early and in the nose bags (tool bags as you called them). Their is procedure for erection and disassembly of tower cranes from every manufacturer, especially from Liebherr. They have spec. and procedure for everything right down to re-painting.
They should have been a pre-lift meeting and sign off, were everyone involved would have had a say if they thought something wasn't right or correct. So whether that happened or not someone made the call to tell them to do it that way.
In Canada the fines for such an accident start at $50 000 for each person involved. I'm not sure what they're going to be in Washington, but with multiple fatalities not likely will they start with any minimums.
Regardless of what comes of it it's still a tragedy that no one's coming out of unscathed.
Thanks for shedding some light on the situation, I'm sure not many of us saw all of these details we see in this video.
When I took our OSHA Safety Class at our UBC Hall the instrucrors specifically said there are no fines for fatalities in the good old US of A.
@@jennicorbus5304, extreme willful negligence might result in jail time. He brought up the case of a job where the safety guy literally told a GC to get his guys out of a trench that was not shored up because it was a violation and super dangerous. The GC told the safety guy to go to hell and sent his workers in, and then the trench collapsed killing a worker. The instructor said that GC might be brought up on criminal charges because he was so belligerent in his actions. But the OSHA fine would have only been for having no shoring in a trench. There would likely be a civil suit for the death, but that would be a private matter. I never really hear about people going to jail for these tragedies.
This is Seattle, so I would expect all the usual safety meetings happened as recommended. They even schedule these dismantles for Saturdays to minimize the number of workers onsite (otherwise they may send most home). Leaving the real question of...what happened the day of?
@@Thomas-wn7cl you would think manslaughter would apply
@@Thomas-wn7cl Makes sense in a way. OSHA fines you for what you do, not for what the outcome is. You don't shore a trench and you get away with it, it's a fine. You don't shore a trench and somebody sprains a knee in a minor incident, still a fine. Workman's comp is a separate issue. Don't shore a trench and somebody gets killed, still a fine. Wrongful death is a separate issue.
Really good videos mate.
Your ability to take a few pictures and give good theories is fantastic.
Root cause of failures is still something so many workplaces ignore.
Ave your analysis is spot on !! keep doing what you are doing learning all the time thank you. On this subject ,I can't understand why some guys on here keep implying that they think the the pins were NEVER installed ? they are so WRONG!! The tower crane would never have passed numerous inspections ,let alone pick a load up. without the pins installed it would have fallen over straight away, the pins were palled after the jib was taken off
My engineering professor always said that the best place you can be if something you built goes wrong, is directly under it.
I feel that applies to this.
Seem like a simple, stupid mistake that cost lives.
Rig setup and tear down is usually performed by the Ironworker raising gang. Usually the raising gang is tight and very familiar with each other and the rigs they assemble and disassemble. Everyone knows all the moves and it’s all supervised by the gang pusher, crane operator and Oiler, yard mechanic and job superintendent. Having done this work in NYC I find it unfathomable that such a mistake could be made.
People have said the same about aviation accidents like a "simple" stall where a pilot for whatever reason reacted incorrectly & crashed the plane. I guess similar can happen in any industry.
I’m a union ironworker, and this accident has resonated heavy with the International in DC as well as every union ironworker out in the field. He is correct. And all the teachers at the union hall have shown the video to students explaining why and how things went wrong and what not to do. Essentially everything this man says in this video is correct. Very sad tragedy. RIP Andrew Wayne L86 RIP Travis Corbet Local 29
Andrew Wayne is displayed on Yoder's FakeBook, He told me his name was Yoder and that's the name that was released when the dust had settled.
Still, a tragedy.
Semper Fi, Marines!
Local 292
Local 584
This might be my new favorite news channel. Well informed. Both of what you know and of what you don't. You stay somber about what matters. You can go off on a tangent that it would take 3 college profferess to think up and all the while you're entertaining.
I dont work with cranes,but I am an engineer in the Materials Handling Industry and we never have any issues involving a machines structual integrity failing ( unless impacted by missuse ) only ever mechanics,electrics,engine issues plugs with water ingress etc etc,but Ive always found that at the root of all "incidents" it boils down to a person or persons either having not done something they shouldve done or doing something they shouldnt have done! Great work as always AvE 👍🍺
This video'll be cited in the criminal negligence case against the company what was operating those cranes, no doubt. Transparent and detailed exposition of the clearly evident available facts.
nah, there won't be any video in court done by some goof. The video will be by some certified Professional Engineer who will say in very technical and un-impeachable terms the same thing the goof did.
@@somebodyelse6673 Regrettably accurate.
Wouldn't the pins be stuck ridged until the weight was taken off them? also for the pins at roof level to have been removed wouldn't that have called for the ground crane to have took the weight of the whole above roof level crane? could it even do that, wouldn't it over balance it? plus why would you start at the bottom and work up?
Another commenter said they could have used the hydraulic constructor doodad to take out the pins ahead of time.
The actual way leighberr does this is a slotted collar and a tapered center pin with nut which when the nut is tightened expands the collar. No way they would fail, no way they fall out without a ton of work. Both require many heavy hammer swings to remove. 8 total per section.
@@bowins7895 can you find a good photo of the actual pins used?
@@bowins7895 from the pics, looks like those still in place didn't budge, and the sections are only slightly damaged from impact, and not at all by what made it topple
@@otm646 9:07 you can see the nuts for two pins, with locking nuts tight, in place.
@Ave you gotta do a recap video on these investigations after the official results are published. That’d be awesome!
AVE was correct
IMO they have not been fined enough.
@@GodzillaGoesGaga Indeed. $70K, $25K and $12K from 3 companies. Pitiful amounts. The criminal investigation is underway and no doubt there will be serious charges considering they know exactly what happened. Private law suits are pending too.
@Ellis Dee I’d be surprised if the sections are light enough to lift on just friction without the pins in place.
I searched Google for Seattle Crane Collapse, and Ave is on the front page..Good work..
I agree with your assessment. It really is obvious what must have happened. They pulled to many pins The wind push on the mast and the normal slack in the fittings was used up and they simply slipped out. What were they thinking?? Hundreds of feet of mast with no attachment other than gravity fit???
That is a manslaughter by negligence Charge Give them 20 years minimum..
Their defense will be " We tried our best." Who knew the wind would come up"? "Worked Ok before."
Strictly prohibited in the instructions manual. " we don't need that" "There wasn't any instruction manual"." It got lost somewhere" On and on it goes. I seen a 500 ton mobile wreck because they felt they could overide the safety instruction manual while moving it.. All of them lost their homes and still owed huge. Insurance crucified them. Good men. Yeah right! Nobody got hurt on that one. Thank God.
You do such an amazing job pointing out the obvious in these type of videos. I just can't understand HOW this happens! Rules and regs are in place for a reason. I guess it like you said, lazy. I would gladly go up and down stairs all day for what they get paid, ya know . Keep up the good work. AVE 2020!
I was down there just before it went. I’m on Mercer in that time frame every Saturday and Sunday, probably a lot of people can say that. Hard to come to terms that POW! it can all be over in a split second with no control. My heart goes out to the folks who’ve lost someone, what a tragedy. Life is too short so I’m buying more AVEwerkz stickers.
oof, this is a tough one. That stroller got me in the feels
General Malarky sadly your right, no doubt will be in some future safety book to show students the seriousness of cutting corners and what the outcome could be. Thankfully one other commenter said the mother and baby survived with minor injury, but feel for the others who weren’t so lucky.
@@lewiscunliffe1051 Yes, the occupants of that car escaped with little or no physical injuries.
@@number1bobo It is truly amazing when you are in your car minding your own business and suddenly tons of steel falls from the sky and cuts your car in half. But you and your baby get out with only minor injuries. It does enhance your faith in some higher power, regardless of what the name your particular deity is called.
I am a CSO in Vancouver Canada ... your analysis of the incident just from videos is bang on
I’m a proud union man But I’ve been to too many funerals of guys killed on the job in every case but 1 the cause was a white hard hat running on borrowed time. I’m one of those white hard hat now. My nightmares of what happened to my friends is the motivation I use to make sure none of my guys ever has to think about what I think about every day and dream about every night.
1. Safety of the civilian
2. Safety of my self and coworkers
3. Structural safety of property and equipment
4. Everything else!
What you're doing is the absolute best way you can honour your fallen friends. Don't ever let the bean counters tell you otherwise!
Bullshit! Union Employees themselves take the short cuts as they always believe they know better than management when it comes time for "the quit". However, when the job first starts, or they are on straight time, they'll cite every rule in the book to upper management to slow down the job.
TrakSpock1 i’ll put my union crew up against your nonunion crew any day of the week. Safety and production I work for a company that is union by choice According to our industry Association. Our production numbers are the highest in the nation hands down
TrakSpock1 some numbers for you I personally have managed safely 500,000 Man hours accident free and under budget meeting or exceeding union and nonunion production rates.
@@TrakSpock1 hack - scab right here
There's not much chance they would be able to get them pins out with the weight of the structure In place, that leads to a scary proposition that they could have never been installed in the first place
When the crane, as stated in the video, has an hydraulic section to assist in errection of the crane, then they could have used that to take the load of the pins.
I think it is safe to say that during dismantleing, they took out all the pins to save time.
If it was a chemical incident, the CSB would have a report on this within 5 months.
YES THERE IS 100% CHANCE PINS WERE KNOCKED OUT EARLY.
Dr. Avey, I think your right in the fact the were no pins at the failure point.
yes, but do you concur?
I used to be a mechanic for construction equipment, thus erecting and fixing cranes was amongst my duties.
As soon as I saw the structure came apart exactly like it's put together, I knew there were no pins fixating the parts whatsoever.
Then when you've shown the pinhole struts as undamged as they were, there is no way in hell that the pins even used to be in their place when the crane toppled. Even when you remove the safety nuts off the pins, as soon as the wind hits the crane and it starts to bend slightly, the pins get jammed in their holes and go nowhere.
Major fuckup on the foreman's side, or whoever had the idea to remove all of the pins prior to deconstruction.
And a very well done analysis by you.
Valid point made. I'll bet your 100% correct. Tragic event and very avoidable if safty hadn't been neglected.
100% agree. The mobile crane operator probably wanted to slow down due to wind conditions and pissed off the Ironworkers
Great work AvE
Turns out you were totally spot on.
Im an Ironworker and AVE you nailed it. My heart goes out to those injured and killed. Those responsible should pay accordingly.
Late to the game here but I cannot think of a clearer representation of "nothing happens until something happens". Tragedy some lives have had to be lost for something entirely preventable. Let's hope something good will come out of this and the lessons are learnt. Keep up the good work!
I don't work with cranes but I do and have flown heavy arsed stuff over peoples heads (concert rigs), we never ever de-pin a thing until the crew boss/foreman signs off that it comes down and when we dismantle a freestanding pinned structure it is very methodical and only de-pin it as we take that part out and never more than that... AvE I am with you on your analysis of this it is a a tragedy and a totally preventable one.