I’m waiting for my own Dad to show up in one of these amorous shots, but during the Korean War, where he was stationed in Germany. As a closeted gay man who spent his whole life pontificating on one’s ability to “choose a way of life”, as if it were as simple as hitting a light switch, I read between his lines, all the more confirmed in hindsight with the passing of years. As a gay man myself, I followed in his footsteps with marriage, family, and divorce, denying my full inner truth. He spoke lovingly of a “Friend” name Jerry in the service, and put a lot of emphasis on the “Homosexuals” he met along the way. Whether unfortunately, or fortunately, he died before I could have the kind of heart to heart talk that might’ve set him, and us both, free.
Thx for posting. So sad. He doth protest too much? My aunt was prob gay but lived yrs w/her male ‘partner’ in a tiny run down apt in Toronto Canada in the 1950s/early 60s. She died an alcoholic but amazing artist. Like your dad (and many others) deserved more. Im told my very conservative racist dad prob knew but only showed love. Maybe not if she had been out? Makes me cry. So much suffering for what?? Separateness is illusion. We’re all just human with beating hearts who bleed if cut. Unless psychotic etc we seek joy and avoid pain. Humans share ~99% DNA (best evidence to date) and some w/rest of nature. We either learn to accept/respect diff with cooperation and compassion or humanity stays stuck. I like to believe some past civilizations lived in sustainable peace and unity. Hoping we live to see that world. 🙏
Under very difficult conditions, in war times, it's beautiful that they found love among themselves because their families were thousands of miles away. Hope some of them stayed together. Very sad too. God bless you all for protecting our countries. 🙏❤🌹
Just look at what they did to Alan Turing! A war hero who single-handedly saved the free world. Not an exaggeration. Look that one up. Prepare to be angry.
The part he played was very influential, but there were many other people who worked at Bletchley Park, without whom he wouldn't have been able to have done what he did..
Turing's judgement was highly questionable. He picked up an underage boy on the streets and brought him back to his house. The boy robbed him while he went to work thinking Turing would never report it because of his position. But Turing did report it and the boy talked. Fortunately, Turing got preferential treatment. In the eyes of the establishment it vindicated their belief that homosexuals should be persecuted in sensitive positions because they were liable to blackmail. In general in the UK nobody cared what you did in private so long as you kept it private.
"Just look at what they did to Alan Turing" - and to many other gay men too, including Leonardo da Vinci who was "outed" in Florence, and to Tchaikovsky, who, it is believed by some music historians, was persuaded to commit suicide after he allegedly had a homosexual relationship with a young Russian aristocrat. There were many other gay men - in the State Department and in Hollywood - whose lives were ruined by homophobes during the witch hunts in the U.S. in the 1950s.
@@blackpowder4016STOP THE SLURS AGAINST ALAN. HE IS NOT HERE TO DEFEND HIMSELF. AND STOP THE LIES ABOUT PERSECUTION IN THE UK. YOUR ANTI GAY TROLL FARM FAILS. YOU ARE NOT FIT TO LICK ALAN TURINGS SHOES.
You should mention the soldiers who were imprisoned in dog cages, and the gay prisoners of war who were not freed when American troops liberated the prison camps after the war. So many gay veterans never got veterans benefits after the war. They were given dishonorable discharges which kept them from finding work after the war.
C'EST TOUT SIMPLEMENT IGNOBLE !!!!!!!!! Quand on pense que nous sommes "censés " , no coment !!!!!!! Je suis tellement horrifiée pour eux. C'est vrai que l'on en parle jamais. Je vous remercie infiniment de m'avoir ouvert les yeux vis-à-vis de cette erreur !!!!!!!! Je suis complètement avec vous !!!!!!!!
I could not agree more with the last comment. A brilliant mind and all he wanted in addition to his impressive war contribution was love and affection. Anyone who is visiting the vibrant City of Manchester in England, please take time out to visit his statue in the small park off Canal Street, which is the Gay Village. Just pause and give Alan two minutes silence and think of his contribution to mankind. May God Bless him and be with him for evermore.
I was tossed out of the US Army 1975 under suspicion of being gay. With a civilian attorney I received an honorable. Worked way through college, hired by Evergreen and Southern Air Transport-Burlington and other similar military aero contract companies for almost 40 years. Retired pilot/engr. I never told a soul. Kept relationships unknown. But there were 2 other aircrew who were not mum about their private lives. Certainly raised eyebrows at the least and if not for the attrition problem of operating in a war zone would definitely have been replaced!
Reading so many fine comments refreshes my spirit. My soul shines with the light of universal love which we men are capable of embodying, and reading your responses cheers me up. A hug and kiss to each one of you.
I'm gay. Some of these men would be close friends, more than brothers, in other cases, they would be gay guys taking advantage of the camaraderie that being at the front provided them to have a good time and have sexual fun, nothing but sex and many others would be couples, loving feeling, more than affection, two homosexuals men in love. There would be everything, I guess. Very fun photographs, some of them beautiful. Greetings from Spain.
The Trojans believed an army of lovers would not be defeated, since you will fight to the end to save the man you love. To follow up this video post, many men & women who returned from WW2 did not go home. They liked the bohemian life available to them in the port cities they departed from, like San Francisco, & stayed there. That led to the LGBTQ presence in SF, which has become a point of pride for that city.
Thanks for the photos in this video. I had never seen such photos before. How unfair and cruel it was for the U.S. Military to issue a "Dishonorable Discharge" just because of a man's sexual orientation!
As a gay comedian once put it: To the US military, that takes 18-22 year old boys, makes them workout every day, gives them a decent haircut, and deprives them of female companionship for months at a time, I just want to say: THANK YOU. 🙃
Considering the reaction of the services and the population in general, I am surprised that anyone would have taken a picture that would be incriminating.
This is a beautiful film, honestly told. Thank you for this. And remembering all those men 2:34 lives were ruined by Officialdom because of their gayness. ❤❤❤❤.xxxx
As if a shot fired from a "gay soldier's" gun would be any different from a straight soldier's. The "projectile was pink" and would not reach the enemy, or the will to fight was less in the gay soldier, or the love for the country was not authentic. or...?
@@hughhagius725you should do a video about German soldiers during World War Two who were gay! Or had platonic affection. There’s many photos ,mainly archives tho, others photos we will never see , but it’s out there! There’s also a book Fascism and Sexuality, I think that’s what it’s called. All about homosexuality and homoerotic in the SS, Wehrmacht, Luftwaffe.
hi vendetta! i wrote about the stormtroopers and hitlerjugend in the clip titled "three sensational gay scandals". check out the third scandal, The Night of the Long Knives
@@hughhagius725 ohhh thank you I see! I also saw the one about the cigarette trope. What do you think about Soviet and other European countries form of greeting was the socialist kiss? Mainly between the same two genders , Man and man, woman and woman. I know it was a friendly greeting , but I can’t help think for some it was more. Perhaps help with being undercover per say. And to kinda be risky and see. And maybe that led to secret meet ups. Also, if you want it’s a hard find but there’s a book called “Damned strong love” not sure if you will like it, but a true story of a relationship between a young Polish man and a German soldier. Polish man name is Stefan Kosinski, there’s an interview on TH-cam too where he talks about it and other things. It’s quite tragic there’s no other information due to the still opposed view of gay people during the early 80s. There’s also another book , I think fighting proud or coming out under fire I’m sorry I don’t remember the name. But it’s of an American soldier who admitted he relationships with German prisoners of war, German soldiers , and that’s how he discover his sexuality. But again thank you for your videos. So rare to see them.
I'm wondering how those two individuals were locked up in 1908 and still served aboard an Iowa class ship that wasn't launched until 1942? Did I miss something? My dad served aboard the USS Missouri, another Iowa class ship and told me story's of men with men. And how you had to be very careful. All in all, great story.
BB-16 was also USS New Jersey but and launched in 1906. BB-62 was from WW2. There are frequently a number of ships serving through the different wars with the same name but different hull numbers. It's an easy GOOGLE.
When you live in a country that violates human rights in private life, subjecting gays to humiliation and discrimination, then in such an acute climate of injustice you understand how important it is to me that all people and all lives have value. Moreover, if your country is at war and any life in this country is worthless, I think only one thing, please, live everyone who is born (also many animals die in wars), do not kill and value each other. In this case, a paradox is visible: war is permissible, but gay couples are prohibited. This means that killing is normal, but loving is forbidden. I hope I was able to explain my point. Sorry for my bad English.
Gay Life ?? You can only get real numbers in a country where LGBTQ+ people can be open without being disadvantaged. Thailand is a Buddhist country without Christian and Muslim hatred. A survey at one of the capital's largest universities a few years ago showed a 16.5% proportion of LGBTQ+ people among all students there. Since Thai society is so liberal...this number can be viewed as real...and the number is certainly the same all over the world, including in Ghana, Iran, Uganda, Russia, only in the Vatican State, according to insider clerical statements, it is said to be around 50 % be ..!! as with the albatrosses, of which around 50% live together in same-sex, mongamous relationships for up to 40 years! Published in zoological studies.
hi freddenker--thanks for the insight. this discussion gets muddled because people don't always agree on who or what counts as gay. kinsey had a clear standard: how orgasms happen. this gets you different results from just counting people who say 'i'm glbt+'
Affection isn't limited to "gays" - I commend you for being up-front at the beginning, that some of these men may just be expressing platonic affection, displays of which were more common in this generation, not afflicted by the alienation of later generations.
Ce sont de,tres belles et magnifiques photos que l ont soit gays lesbians bixesual ou heteros l amour est pareil pour tous malheureusement certaines personnes se permettent de juger les gens sans les connaître moi je suis amie avec des gays et je leurs dit si tu est heureux c'est le principal ont ne doit ps les juger pour autant l amour est égale pour tous même si l amour fait mal ou souffrir mais ce n est pas toujours le cas big kiss Marie
Lo stesso Gesù, rivolgendosi ai suoi seguaci, con molta semplicità ed amore per tutti, quindi verso il prossimo, diceva le testuali parole “ amatevi l’un l’altro, come io ho amato voi” senza fare alcuna distinzione.
I have always wondered about the history of gays in the military. I presume some were both heroic soldiers and also considered undesirable. This is a USA perspective, I wonder if other countries did much the same.
However the “look”, the kiss, the closeness and the genital contact is not ambiguous. The point is that most of it was closeted, still is. Therefore what little you see in photographs is the tip, not the much, much bigger picture.
I guess in some instances, groups got together to protect each other, perhaps the commanding officer didn't always ro something about it. Perhaps allowed
it was not rite to treat these men the way they was treated ,,,,,when they bleed on the battle feld and the blood of a gay man ran together wth that of a straght men both ded fightng for ther country ,,,,no one can gvie more then ther for a another ,,,,how many gay solders died for their country?
9, 11? 8, 12? State your limits. Or what you THINK (since you made a claim without evidence) is the real number. And then demonstrate veracity by showing the evidence.
It’s amazing how many straight people have no idea how many people are really gay, you have to remember a very large portion of gay people never disclosed that in those days, and even today a large percentage still don’t. Just hang out with organizations and clubs, and look at online apps and services and it’s amazing how many people are gay on them or bisexual or discrete with no pictures. 10% is not an underestimate by any means. Maybe 3 to 5% of these people are actually out in public one way or another and that’s it. Tons of married to women bisexual men too., and gay leaning women
Thank you for this video. I served in emotionally painful silence for 20 years. Enough said.
that's very touching, DonAlan. I was in the army long ago for only two years, and I thought I was the only one.
Je suis tellement malheureuse pour vous !!!!
Thanks for your research. Nice presentation.
Really enjoyed this. Thank you!
I’m waiting for my own Dad to show up in one of these amorous shots, but during the Korean War, where he was stationed in Germany. As a closeted gay man who spent his whole life pontificating on one’s ability to “choose a way of life”, as if it were as simple as hitting a light switch, I read between his lines, all the more confirmed in hindsight with the passing of years. As a gay man myself, I followed in his footsteps with marriage, family, and divorce, denying my full inner truth. He spoke lovingly of a “Friend” name Jerry in the service, and put a lot of emphasis on the “Homosexuals” he met along the way. Whether unfortunately, or fortunately, he died before I could have the kind of heart to heart talk that might’ve set him, and us both, free.
Thx for posting. So sad. He doth protest too much? My aunt was prob gay but lived yrs w/her male ‘partner’ in a tiny run down apt in Toronto Canada in the 1950s/early 60s. She died an alcoholic but amazing artist. Like your dad (and many others) deserved more. Im told my very conservative racist dad prob knew but only showed love. Maybe not if she had been out? Makes me cry. So much suffering for what?? Separateness is illusion. We’re all just human with beating hearts who bleed if cut. Unless psychotic etc we seek joy and avoid pain. Humans share ~99% DNA (best evidence to date) and some w/rest of nature. We either learn to accept/respect diff with cooperation and compassion or humanity stays stuck. I like to believe some past civilizations lived in sustainable peace and unity. Hoping we live to see that world. 🙏
@@jmc8076 Heartfelt! Thank you for sharing so beautifully
Thank you for sharing.
Hugs
I once read in a tombstone in England: The bitterest tears shed over Graves are those for words left unspoken, Deeds left undone.
You can still have that talk. We are not limited.
Under very difficult conditions, in war times, it's beautiful that they found love among themselves because their families were thousands of miles away.
Hope some of them stayed together.
Very sad too.
God bless you all for protecting our countries.
🙏❤🌹
Just look at what they did to Alan Turing! A war hero who single-handedly saved the free world. Not an exaggeration.
Look that one up.
Prepare to be angry.
The part he played was very influential, but there were many other people who worked at Bletchley Park, without whom he wouldn't have been able to have done what he did..
Turing's judgement was highly questionable. He picked up an underage boy on the streets and brought him back to his house. The boy robbed him while he went to work thinking Turing would never report it because of his position. But Turing did report it and the boy talked. Fortunately, Turing got preferential treatment. In the eyes of the establishment it vindicated their belief that homosexuals should be persecuted in sensitive positions because they were liable to blackmail. In general in the UK nobody cared what you did in private so long as you kept it private.
"Just look at what they did to Alan Turing" - and to many other gay men too, including Leonardo da Vinci who was "outed" in Florence, and to Tchaikovsky, who, it is believed by some music historians, was persuaded to commit suicide after he allegedly had a homosexual relationship with a young Russian aristocrat. There were many other gay men - in the State Department and in Hollywood - whose lives were ruined by homophobes during the witch hunts in the U.S. in the 1950s.
@@blackpowder4016 stop minimizing brutal homophobia.. The name of Turing lives on. You won't
@@blackpowder4016STOP THE SLURS AGAINST ALAN. HE IS NOT HERE TO DEFEND HIMSELF. AND STOP THE LIES ABOUT PERSECUTION IN THE UK. YOUR ANTI GAY TROLL FARM FAILS. YOU ARE NOT FIT TO LICK ALAN TURINGS SHOES.
You should mention the soldiers who were imprisoned in dog cages, and the gay prisoners of war who were not freed when American troops liberated the prison camps after the war. So many gay veterans never got veterans benefits after the war. They were given dishonorable discharges which kept them from finding work after the war.
C'EST TOUT SIMPLEMENT IGNOBLE !!!!!!!!! Quand on pense que nous sommes "censés " , no coment !!!!!!! Je suis tellement horrifiée pour eux. C'est vrai que l'on en parle jamais. Je vous remercie infiniment de m'avoir ouvert les yeux vis-à-vis de cette erreur !!!!!!!! Je suis complètement avec vous !!!!!!!!
* B-b-but in Vietnam era they were discharged under honorable conditions & got full benefits.
Thank you for posting.
Very well-presented. My guy of 46 years is a decorated Vietnam combat veteran.
It makes sense if you love each other then you just love each other, what's wrong with that?
Very nice and also sad. I can appreciate it.
I agree. It is sad.
I could not agree more with the last comment. A brilliant mind and all he wanted in addition to his impressive war contribution was love and affection. Anyone who is visiting the vibrant City of Manchester in England, please take time out to visit his statue in the small park off Canal Street, which is the Gay Village. Just pause and give Alan two minutes silence and think of his contribution to mankind. May God Bless him and be with him for evermore.
Wonderful story. Thank you for sharing the narrative and the photos.
I was tossed out of the US Army 1975 under suspicion of being gay. With a civilian attorney I received an honorable. Worked way through college, hired by Evergreen and Southern Air Transport-Burlington and other similar military aero contract companies for almost 40 years. Retired pilot/engr. I never told a soul. Kept relationships unknown. But there were 2 other aircrew who were not mum about their private lives. Certainly raised eyebrows at the least and if not for the attrition problem of operating in a war zone would definitely have been replaced!
very inspiring story, dave; thank you
Reading so many fine comments refreshes my spirit. My soul shines with the light of universal love which we men are capable of embodying, and reading your responses cheers me up. A hug and kiss to each one of you.
Very interesting video. I look forward to more from your channel.
A fascinating subject, largely swept under the historical carpet unfortunately.
Thank you for posting these beautiful photographs; some of them are very moving
Your last sentence is the most powerful one.
I met several guys who are in World War II and gay, and were wonderful men!
I'm gay. Some of these men would be close friends, more than brothers, in other cases, they would be gay guys taking advantage of the camaraderie that being at the front provided them to have a good time and have sexual fun, nothing but sex and many others would be couples, loving feeling, more than affection, two homosexuals men in love. There would be everything, I guess. Very fun photographs, some of them beautiful.
Greetings from Spain.
The Trojans believed an army of lovers would not be defeated, since you will fight to the end to save the man you love. To follow up this video post, many men & women who returned from WW2 did not go home. They liked the bohemian life available to them in the port cities they departed from, like San Francisco, & stayed there. That led to the LGBTQ presence in SF, which has become a point of pride for that city.
how you gonna keep 'em down on the farm after they've seen paree!
Thanks for the photos in this video. I had never seen such photos before. How unfair and cruel it was for the U.S. Military to issue a "Dishonorable Discharge" just because of a man's sexual orientation!
Very bright and funny. More memories like this.
I’m one of the gay men who got an honorable discharge from the navy
As a gay comedian once put it: To the US military, that takes 18-22 year old boys, makes them workout every day, gives them a decent haircut, and deprives them of female companionship for months at a time, I just want to say: THANK YOU. 🙃
Considering the reaction of the services and the population in general, I am surprised that anyone would have taken a picture that would be incriminating.
excellent video. Important info
This is a beautiful film, honestly told.
Thank you for this. And remembering all those men 2:34 lives were ruined by Officialdom because of their gayness.
❤❤❤❤.xxxx
As if a shot fired from a "gay soldier's" gun would be any different from a straight soldier's. The "projectile was pink" and would not reach the enemy, or the will to fight was less in the gay soldier, or the love for the country was not authentic. or...?
Thanks, buddy!
Incredible. A buddy of mine came back from the navy in '75!!!!! , dishonorable discharge. He was gay.
i hope things worked out ok for him
@@hughhagius725 You are very kind. I really don't know. There were years when he seemed to be in trouble a lot. Then, I just didn't hear anymore.
@@hughhagius725you should do a video about German soldiers during World War Two who were gay! Or had platonic affection. There’s many photos ,mainly archives tho, others photos we will never see , but it’s out there! There’s also a book Fascism and Sexuality, I think that’s what it’s called. All about homosexuality and homoerotic in the SS, Wehrmacht, Luftwaffe.
hi vendetta! i wrote about the stormtroopers and hitlerjugend in the clip titled "three sensational gay scandals". check out the third scandal, The Night of the Long Knives
@@hughhagius725 ohhh thank you I see! I also saw the one about the cigarette trope. What do you think about Soviet and other European countries form of greeting was the socialist kiss? Mainly between the same two genders , Man and man, woman and woman.
I know it was a friendly greeting , but I can’t help think for some it was more. Perhaps help with being undercover per say. And to kinda be risky and see. And maybe that led to secret meet ups.
Also, if you want it’s a hard find but there’s a book called “Damned strong love” not sure if you will like it, but a true story of a relationship between a young Polish man and a German soldier. Polish man name is Stefan Kosinski, there’s an interview on TH-cam too where he talks about it and other things. It’s quite tragic there’s no other information due to the still opposed view of gay people during the early 80s. There’s also another book , I think fighting proud or coming out under fire I’m sorry I don’t remember the name. But it’s of an American soldier who admitted he relationships with German prisoners of war, German soldiers , and that’s how he discover his sexuality.
But again thank you for your videos. So rare to see them.
So so terrible, all these soldiers and sailors if still alive should get an apology and compensation for the hurt they suffered
My grandfather claimed he saw German pow men in these kinds of relationships
Peut importe la nationalité, après toutes ces années, il est important de remettre certains détails à leur place !!!!!!
Sad but true. Glad time has shown improvements.
Un petit.
I'm wondering how those two individuals were locked up in 1908 and still served aboard an Iowa class ship that wasn't launched until 1942? Did I miss something? My dad served aboard the USS Missouri, another Iowa class ship and told me story's of men with men. And how you had to be very careful. All in all, great story.
BB-16 was also USS New Jersey but and launched in 1906. BB-62 was from WW2. There are frequently a number of ships serving through the different wars with the same name but different hull numbers. It's an easy GOOGLE.
@@philleasthouse3791 So yes, I missed something. Thank you
nothing more than helping a friend with a need...and itch...it gets cold away from home.
When you live in a country that violates human rights in private life, subjecting gays to humiliation and discrimination, then in such an acute climate of injustice you understand how important it is to me that all people and all lives have value. Moreover, if your country is at war and any life in this country is worthless, I think only one thing, please, live everyone who is born (also many animals die in wars), do not kill and value each other. In this case, a paradox is visible: war is permissible, but gay couples are prohibited. This means that killing is normal, but loving is forbidden. I hope I was able to explain my point. Sorry for my bad English.
Your English is perfect 👌 I understood every word and it is beautiful
Gay Life ??
You can only get real numbers in a country where LGBTQ+ people can be open without being disadvantaged.
Thailand is a Buddhist country without Christian and Muslim hatred.
A survey at one of the capital's largest universities a few years ago showed a 16.5% proportion of LGBTQ+ people among all students there.
Since Thai society is so liberal...this number can be viewed as real...and the number is certainly the same all over the world, including in Ghana, Iran, Uganda, Russia, only in the Vatican State, according to insider clerical statements, it is said to be around 50 % be ..!! as with the albatrosses, of which around 50% live together in same-sex, mongamous relationships for up to 40 years! Published in zoological studies.
hi freddenker--thanks for the insight. this discussion gets muddled because people don't always agree on who or what counts as gay. kinsey had a clear standard: how orgasms happen. this gets you different results from just counting people who say 'i'm glbt+'
Affection isn't limited to "gays" - I commend you for being up-front at the beginning, that some of these men may just be expressing platonic affection, displays of which were more common in this generation, not afflicted by the alienation of later generations.
sick that this the of discrimination was going on then and today
Ce sont de,tres belles et magnifiques photos que l ont soit gays lesbians bixesual ou heteros l amour est pareil pour tous malheureusement certaines personnes se permettent de juger les gens sans les connaître moi je suis amie avec des gays et je leurs dit si tu est heureux c'est le principal ont ne doit ps les juger pour autant l amour est égale pour tous même si l amour fait mal ou souffrir mais ce n est pas toujours le cas big kiss Marie
bien sur, marie. merci!
Lo stesso Gesù, rivolgendosi ai suoi seguaci, con molta semplicità ed amore per tutti, quindi verso il prossimo, diceva le testuali parole “ amatevi l’un l’altro, come io ho amato voi” senza fare alcuna distinzione.
Entièrement OK !!!!!
I have always wondered about the history of gays in the military. I presume some were both heroic soldiers and also considered undesirable. This is a USA perspective, I wonder if other countries did much the same.
Ça semble évident, quoique lamentable !!!!!
I'm gay ..alot of these pictures could be just friends
well, yes. not always easy to draw the line
However the “look”, the kiss, the closeness and the genital contact is not ambiguous. The point is that most of it was closeted, still is. Therefore what little you see in photographs is the tip, not the much, much bigger picture.
How did they know if you were gay if you didn’t tell them . Busy with wars
they could figure it out
❤👍
I guess in some instances, groups got together to protect each other, perhaps the commanding officer didn't always ro something about it. Perhaps allowed
i expect you're right. in the pre-Kinsey period it was easier for authorities just not to acknowledge such things.
You can be Gay or you can be grim!
did someone say blanket party, they kept their mouth shut
Im so worried for our British Cousins
it was not rite to treat these men the way they was treated ,,,,,when they bleed on the battle feld and the blood of a gay man ran together wth that of a straght men both ded fightng for ther country ,,,,no one can gvie more then ther for a another ,,,,how many gay solders died for their country?
Homofobia destrói
❤❤❤
Very sad. Subscribed.
Thanks for the sub!
Ten percent ?? I highly doubt it.
9, 11? 8, 12? State your limits. Or what you THINK (since you made a claim without evidence) is the real number. And then demonstrate veracity by showing the evidence.
Check again, it's higher
I think it is higher. State your expertise on homosexuality.
He’s not responding. That means it’s just gaming.
It’s amazing how many straight people have no idea how many people are really gay, you have to remember a very large portion of gay people never disclosed that in those days, and even today a large percentage still don’t. Just hang out with organizations and clubs, and look at online apps and services and it’s amazing how many people are gay on them or bisexual or discrete with no pictures. 10% is not an underestimate by any means. Maybe 3 to 5% of these people are actually out in public one way or another and that’s it. Tons of married to women bisexual men too., and gay leaning women
Kinky!
Possibly these are just close friendships without sex.