Everyone Says It's A Mistake! (Finishing Up The Big 60'X120' Pole Barn)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 มิ.ย. 2024
- We spent this past week finishing up some of the final grade work around my boss's new 60'X120' pole barn and we decided to not put any gutters on it. Everyone tells him that he will regret not putting any gutters on the pole barn but we think they aren't necessary. In this video we work to provide a gutter alternative and we finish up the driveway around the new building.
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I respect your choice but would personally consider gutters a vital construction part that ensures the integrity of the building medium and long term for a very justifiable expense.
I respect that choice just as much. I wouldn't remove the gutters from my house because of the poor drainage options so your advice is certainly justified in my mind. Thanks for watching!
I agree. It l lets you capture rain water to use for irrigation or grey water if you desire. It also prevents long term splatter damage from rain drops.
Gutters depend on a lot of things. I think they are way over rated. To me, the top two considerations are the amount of rain you get and the drainage on your lot.
Also my house has too many trees that shed leaves like crazy. I took my gutters off three years ago and haven't regretted it at all.
With us, we always use gutters since we use a rain catchment cistern. We just wrapped the gutter in a tough white nylon screen and we’ve never had an issue. Having all that extra water just seems like a good investment for us for when that someday comes.
Gutters, always! You can probably get away with it for a few years, maybe a decade. But gutters make a difference once you get into the multi decade longevity of soil stability and drainage.
Previous owners of our house thought the same. But 18 years after the build we are fixing a few of the issues caused by no gutters. Issues that have indeed affected the foundation.
We likely have different soil types, to be fair.
Minor cost in the long term, a bit like oil changes.
Great insight so thanks for the thoughts on it. I should have included more discussion on how soil type plays a factor for us.
Our heavy clay soils are not very permeable and can make a great barrier to moisture, the same way a pond holds water. If you have more sandy soil that will absorb water more easily then letting it run off, then this is likely not a very good option.
@@digdrivediy if the top of the foundation was 16 inches above the ground level all drainage problems would have been solved. Only have to follow government building code. But no, escavaters want big money for their work done with heavy machinery and then cut corners to make money not deserved..
In my area, scheduling an excavation crew to do this work I would ballpark at about $7,500. The extra #2 stones would be about $1,800 ish. So after drain tile and my time into it- I could call gutter pro and have gutters w leave covers installed here for about $2500.
Getting water away & keeping it away from the slab or the foundation is all that matters. How you choose to do that is up to you. Personally, I don't like the look of gutters on most buildings & I hate cleaning them even more so over the years I've become a self-taught expert on designing good drainage around our buildings. Over 30 years on this farm now with zero ground water related issues on any building.
My two story house gutters are a constant drain of money . Constantly blocked by our wind shelter belt
I could not be more pleased. It looks fabulous and turned out great.
In my area, I would go with gutters. You know your area and what works best. Turned out great! Thanks so much for taking the extra time to bring us a long. Stay safe!
Like the video Neil Keep thems comming .
Looks great it will work great 👍👍👍👍👍💯
Hell yes !!!! And save the water in a tank for use later,, think smart!!
I never put gutters on my pole shed 5 years ago and im not looking back I put 48" of 2" rock about 6" thick and its hasn't moved yet. Thumbs up from me!
Hello from the Netherlands and thanks for the video. Sincerely, Hollandduck
Essentially a French Drain without the pipe. I used the same concept around my hay barn and it worked pretty well. Didn't work quite as well around the house and ended up adding perforated pipe after the fact. Lesson learned. All about soil and the drainage. See now, here's a skill set you excel in! You are the finest "dirt sniffer" I know! So proud of you right now. I know the whole chamfering the holes thing was a moment, but you really shine in this post! I actually feel a little "misty" typing right now. Just so proud, so very proud!!! Love home brother.
I'm going to make a video all about chamfering holes and countersinking just to get in your good graces! I learned me some pretty good skills working in a machine shop during the winter one year!
Great video Neil! I’m a gutter guy being a home builder from WI. IMO…the most important part was that you drained the gravel ditch to the drain tile. Without that, I’m afraid all that would have happened was a moat inside the gravel. ie French drains without the tile. I’m not against it… just another perspective. Have a great Sunday! Thanks for sharing 😊
Wonderful perspective Troy. Thanks so much for the thoughts on it!
I like that idea ,I have a newer 50 x 100 I want to dress up in the spring. Nice overall look. Well done
Keep up the good work.
I’ve had buildings both ways. Never had an issue on water damage on either one. The gutter cleaning was a hassle for sure. I had a ton of trees surrounding that barn though. It really comes down to preference and the slope away from the building. Nice work. It turned out great and should work awesome. 👍🏼
Great job.
I would add gutters so we could collect some rainwater for the garden.
Another fascinating video....thanks for sharing!
You should put filter fabric around the stone that the pipe was buried in. Looks like a lot of clay sediment in your existing line. If you are in snow country gutters would be a major pain. Perimeter drainage is a better option but you have got to have some place to run it though. With all that stone you could have used it as a drainage field for the runoff to give it time to percolate. Nice crop of corn
Yep, that's how I do 'em. Makes it easier to maintain the yard around the building too. Just make a pass with a sprayer full of glyphosate a few times a year. Lookin' good!
I like it that you're taking the time to teach the young guys what to do, and how to do the job. Letting them run the 755 hands on is the only way to get experience. Good job!!!
Thanks Tony! I think they had a little fun playing around with it too.
I have gutters but they are mainly for keeping melting snow from making slick ice on the driveway since my garage doors are under the eves. The stone around the pole barn really makes it look sharp.
Don’t have gutters on my 42x88 shop did same thing you did! Nice work!
That looks great!
Looks good… I did the same around my shop
Me personally i like the gravel drainage around the buildings it works great and fits the look of the building...Great Job guys
Anything with a basement underground should have gutters, in my opinion. For a building like this, I don’t see too much of a reason why the way you did it wouldn’t work. It also dresses up post and beam buildings.
For my house, I’m doing both. I have form-a-drain around my footer, the house has gutters, and I have French drain around 3 sides of the foundation. It’s all an effort to never have to deal with a flooded basement!
I really like look of the rock border makes real curb appeal. Gutters are a real pain in butt if you have trees any where close. In this application gutters would probably still been connected to the tile. The best part is you can mow right up the edge. No Weed Eating always a bonus. Great job and great video!!!
Excellent work, Neil! I totally agree that it really enhances the look of the area around the building. We do not have gutters on our 40x60 pole building. We do have significant grade away from it in all directions though. The biggest thing annoyance I've found about not having gutters (so far) is that the rain splatter makes a mess of the darker bottom of our building. I do spray it off from time to time - but it's a never-ending battle. The good news is that we did put shale about 10' out the entire way around our building (with the grade downward), so the water drains away easily, and the splatter on the building isn't as bad is if it were topsoil. Good video!
Thanks Chad!
great advise with the gravel verse gutters. Even here in AZ
Reading some of the comments has been quite interesting. Previously I lived in the tropics where average rainfall was a bit over 1700 mm (70 inches) annually, which was all received in the wet season or approx 110 days. Very few buildings had gutters and those that did generally only had gutters on awnings etc where there would be a building entrance or the like. Not having gutters was not an issue as correct drainage was part of the build and unlike some have stated longevity was not an issue. There where plenty of buildings that had been built in the early 1900's and some houses that date back to pre WWII. One point though is that no buildings had sub grade levels. So no basements or car parks below ground as with the amount of water they would just become indoor swimming pools. Just as a side note, there wasn't any storm water drains either. All water would run to the road, the road became the storm channel, and then diverted into local creeks/rivers.
Very interesting. Thanks for sharing that bit.
I can say, gutters are a good accent to some houses and so on. Just not an absolutely necessary item if you worked to figure drainage on the ground. I say this after spending time owning an apartment building in the worst winter weather. Where the gutters fill with water and freeze almost instantly, then fall off the building from shear weight. And thru a hurricane storm where they are pulled off from the wind! Winter happens every six months and hurricanes happen now and again.
Proper drainage on the ground is the key!
Crazy seeing that 755 loader is a long way from home and my local John Deere dealer I see by the sticker.
I'm a fan of what you did. Where I live (western Australia) our houses generally have gutters but once you get into the northern parts of the state the rain overwhelms them, so they don't bother. Both work well but I like the simplicity of no gutters.
All Buildings Require
Uniform Loading
Or Bearing Pressure
of the Structural Members
Eg Posts.
To minimise the Chance of
Collapse or Racking of the Building.
Buildings can get Sucked out of the Ground by ground Wettness or Dampness of one area or one section.
Footings have less Skin Friction to Resist uplift Pressures.
High pressure outside
Low pressure internal.
Uniform Dampness.
Yes it's a Metal Building
However
Dark Damp area's are perfect to breed Termites sub nests form
From their they strike out to eat Houses, Kitchens, Laudary's cupboards,
Store Rooms, Offices & skirting etc
A Building with has 4 sides enclosed
It Cops a lot of sideways wind load &
Roofing Loads.
Proper Water Management is a vital part of any
Construction Or House.
agreed, looks great and works...well done!
wild horses couldn't make me put wooden posts in to the ground, i sit on a chair and ''dig'' the holes with a pressure cleaner , making them wider at the base, wrap chicken wire around base of post , fill hole with cement., and about a foot up the post.. another good method is to wrap bamboo with chicken wire and ferro cement you end up with a product very strong, no rust,no rot ,no termites, also you can colour the cement..
I am doing both on my property, pine trees overhang the gutters and no matter how often they are cleaned a strong rainstorm overwhelms them, so I am installing drain rock under them to channel that water away from the residence.
So much for rainwater collection. Think of all the rain you could collect from a pole barn and send to the drought stricken west.
I wish we could send water to the west. How would we do that though?
Nice video. Keep them coming!
Morning Neil! Excellent video this morning with coffee. Thanks for sharing. I have no gutters on my cottage here - same debate occurred with the contractors when it was built. However, I didn't put the gravel around the building - great idea - thanks! Perhaps on the to do list. Have a nice weekend!
Hey great to hear from you Gord! Yeah, this seems to be a polarizing topic! But I am certainly glad to hear from folks that have had different approaches to solving the gutter/no gutter situation. Anyone that lives in a wooded setting certainly has an opinion! Thanks so much for tuning in and have a great weekend!
I like what you did with pole barn. I wouldn’t like cleaning gutters on that building, for sure!
Another great video Sir. Well done 👍🇺🇸
I have a similar building, with French drain and rock, I added rain gutters, lots better!
I like how you did this on this project. A lot of people put "foundation" plantings around the building that soon get too big and become a pest or detriment. The rock looks nice and with weed killer will not have anything growing there. The water will go away from the building the way you have it as well. Vary Nice! Oh. I would like a concrete entrance pad for the big door but that adds a lot to the budget and might get cut whether I want it or not!!
You did a great job 👏 👍 🙌 no gutters is the best
Always a good watch Neil!!
Looks good
Thanks, Neil! Great video and interesting subject matter. I'm hooked on your channel. Love your explanations!
Thanks a lot Randy!
Gutters are only for water control. Want water to stay in a particular corner into a drain tile to sent away. Or as you did a dry well. Amount of water is the only factor. Good job Niel.
Watched thumbs-uped.
I noticed the siding splash on the side of the building. I like that gutters reduce that. No trees around no cleaning. 11 years on my pole building and gutters have always been clear (no leaves or debris to clean) and control where the water goes with downspouts into my tile.
came out great you really know how to run a tractor.with stone like that you dont need gutters
Looks great to me.... Awesome video Neil as always !
Thinking you know more than literally all engineers in the world who uses gutters...GG dude.
All engineers in the world use gutters? C'mon. Take a look around :)
I don't see coments here about soil type. My house has no gutters because snow load would tear them down and build up ice, in addition we are in sand. I put a positive slope with rocks, done deal. However clay is a different story. Water will take the easy path, clay is not easy. Water will flow on top of clay until it finds lighter soil. So this video did it right
Appreciate that! Compacted clay all the way around this one.
Nice job! I agree no need for gutters, if the tile can handle the water coming off the roof. I would have to say you have great eye for detail. It does look a lot better with the stone around the building! Keep the videos coming and have a good day.
From Northwestern Vermont
Thanks Darcy!
Alternative to gutters! You're crazy. I'm call my union rep. .
Gutters depend on where you live. In Oz in the tropics you control water on the ground and force it away. In drier areas you catch and store in tanks etc. In many areas now all new properties must have rainwater tanks usually connected to washing machines and toilets and for garden use to conserve water.
I am planning to put guttlers on my pole barn (40' X 120')in order to collect rain water.
You are a rock master!! When I saw the title to this video I already knew what your solution was. The only concern I would have is over time wind blows dirt into the rocks and then the weeds take over. Happens here all the time.
Thanks Jeff! You have to get your farmers to do some better erosion control!!! :)
@@digdrivediy LOL We get 50-60mph winds when it is clear out. Our new norm now is a desert.
Gutters on my shop are full of leaves and plug. Then water backs up and makes its way into shop. Not saying gutters are bad but can be more maintenance if you have trees nearby.
Another great vid Neil. I prefer the gutters as they move the water to a defined point and it can be dealt with at that/those location/s. A gutter would also allows you to store water in large butts or tanks if needed.
Best reason though is when you walk out of a door you don't get to walk through a water fall of rain run off, though on a hot day that might be quite nice. There are advantages and disadvantages with any system I guess.
Keep up the excellent work, you have to be one of the best content providers on you tube.
Appreciate it.
In heavy snow & ice zones gutters can get ripped off especially if you have a heat source that causes melt or sheet ice to overhang
I have to agree. Gutters have their place but are not an absolute requirement as some believe. When we purchased our home in Florida, it had a lot of deteriorated plastic gutter. It was in poor shape obviously due to the heat and sun constantly beating on it. Most of Florida is sugar sand. Actually, it's all beach with weeds and grass covering it. I simply removed the gutter system and never did replace it. Ten years later, there was absolutely no sign of erosion anywhere around the home. When we sold it, the buyer, as most do, hired a knowologist home inspector who called out the lack of gutters on the home, and of course, the buyer negotiated a reduction of the selling price. Other than that, there were absolutely no harmful issues for us. The new owner never did install another gutter system.
I know sometimes gutters are a pain but, our soil here doesn't lend itself to good drainage. Most times I don't have a choice but to try and duct the water away from the structure. It really depends on the soil conditions where I'm working and also, which side of the structure the doors are on. The doors on my workshop are on the eave side of the building so unless I want to walk through a waterfall going in and out, I have to install gutters on mine. The shed y'all built is really nice.
Makes sense. Especially over the doors! Thanks BD
That looks great! Didn’t all that stone cost more than gutters? I don’t see many trees around for leaves to get into the gutters and cause issues.
Great question! The total cost on the stone was about $300.
@@digdrivediy to me that seems like a very good price!
The height of the barn prohibits the ability to clean the gutters. Good call . Also sick of cleaning gutters and bird’s nesting in down pipes.
I tend to go overboard with water solutions so I may have chosen gutters that were directly connected to an underground drainage system like you used, plus the stone. This assumes I could afford it, of course.
I just had new seemless gutters installed on my home and my plan is to run the downspouts to some sort of underground drainage or possible rainwater storage tanks.
LOOKS GREAT
Great video
Neil, I have tried this non-gutter approach before. It worked exactly as you described. The only down side was that rain water would splash off of the stone and onto the building. With any dust or dirt present, that left an unsightly dirt residue up the bottom 18" of the building. Hope that doesn't happen for you.
Thanks Sir and I'm glad to hear it. So far with this type of stone, both mine and my brother's building are free of splash. This rock doesn't have any of the fine powder in it so once it gets that initial washing it should clean up and I think the barn will look nice and hopefully stay nice.
I did the exact same thing. My only mistake was not putting a trench drain in front of my garage doors before pouring concrete. The other issue with gutters is the potential of snow pulling them loose when snow load from the metal roof let’s go. To prevent that from happening it’s snow clips of lower gutter install on the facia. Great work.
Seems like a legit way of avoiding gutters.
Looks nice
I have 4 such sheds. No gutters on any of them. Rock around them, grade away from the building and no problem.
Glad to hear it Clint! Thanks :)
Nicely done I like it
Planning something similar for my post frame house. Have the same heavy clay soil and have landscaped it for good slope away from the house. Will do a french drain at the bottom of the slope.
Water splashing on the rock will discolor the metal siding in time. I like the rock border AND gutters.
So far on my red barn that you see in the video it has been 10 years and there is no visible discoloration of the siding. The stone becomes surprisingly inert once it gets good and washed off.
I think this system will work great. Only question i have i the width of the stone bed. Seems to me on a good rain fall the water might come off the roof and overshot the stone and land on the grass. Maybe that is what you are looking for. With light rain fall this seems like the water would fall into the stone bed great. With something like this system would you go a few rainstorms to see how far the rain flys off the roof before starting? Not sure what area this is in. Above the side door was snow guards installed on the roof so it breaks up the snow as it slides down the roof. Overall i think it is a great job and would probably do the same.
i don't have gutters on my house or shed, 2 to 3 ft overhang ,cement floor and posts may last hundreds of years. i have always found ridge capping a pain in the butt, so when i renovated and did someroofing i decided to eliminate ridge capping ,i extented roofing iron about 8 '' past centre line,on the other side i pushed the roof sheets hard up under the overhanging the fit is very good, i did this about 3 yrs ago , not a drip.. if you had a steep pitch it would be relatively easy to run a bead of silicone along meeting point . i will do a test for my own curiousity. we get a 1.5 litres a minute pumping up from creek so don't gutters. actually is 12 ft of guttering on 90ft shed in to a 1,000 gal tank as 5 day backup if pump in creek needs repair .ps concrete in shed is 1 1/2'' thick with chicken wire in it , its all you need if you arent driving heavy over it...
Collect the rainwater. It's useful.
To each their own, you should have gutters, without proper drainage the water will freeze in the winter damaging your foundation. Gutters are a pain but cheaper then major foundation repair. Seen a lot of these barns with no gutters have major issues with soil erosion
He doesn't have a foundation.
I've had gutters on buildings including my current home. Sometimes a pain, but when they work they are effective. Neighbor has stone around his buildings (been this way for several years) and I never see him maintaining much. It works for the drainage out into the yard. In your case: Water drainage, erosion control (or at least mitigation), protects the building and foundation area > win. (Basically what the gutters would be doing on the building, I think.) Nice look for the landscape. The only mainteance now is keeping the grass and weeds out of the stone area.
For sure! I have the same exact setup on my building and we spray the weeds maybe once a year. They don't like to grow in that large limestone for whatever reason.
Neil, you Sir are ,God on earth 🌎 are you sure you did not, create the, WORLD you are so gifted, God bless from Ireland. ❤😢😮
I would install gutters, and collect the Rain water to clean the machines. It Will cost money once and after that you Will have free cleaning water ,or to spray the garden . Greetings from johan in belgium
Hello Johan in Belgium! Thanks for the comment and clever ideas!
Some sort of drain tile under the rock would be ideal to shed water away from the foundation. Basically you would be setting up ground level gutters. Issue though is that weeds may start to grow in the rock.
Very informative video Neil, a lot of people don’t realize just how fast a poor drainage system can completely destroy a building.
AH , says a lot about the building !
great system, I like it,,
one thing would change that and thats the amount of water generated by a roof that size, so if you wanted to add gutters and harvest rain water it should be able to provide huge amounts of water,,
YES on gutters
I have a 50 x 100 foot building just like this. We said the same thing when it was built 25 years ago. When it rains really hard, water comes in and puddles on the slab. Even with the grade and rocks around the perimeter. (This in in the Chicago area.) Still haven't installed gutters. 🤣🤣🤣
Well I'm hoping that isn't the case here. The concrete slab here would be about 10 to 16 in above grade compared to the area that's around the perimeter of the rock. We're thinking and hoping that the water should get away pretty easily actually.
@@digdrivediy Yeah you should be fine. Like I said, my situation is after 25 years so there's been a lot of erosion over the years. I probably could have kept up with it better but, you know, priorities... Hope you get years of enjoyment out of your beautiful building! 🙏🙏🙏
My front porch is the same way, no gutter, just a rock bed to catch the splash
How does it work?
@@digdrivediy It's been fine for 15 years. The yard slightly slopes away from the house. Granted, it's only a 12x24 roof, so it's not a ton of surface area.
Where I am with frost heaves and the growth of grass over time the ground rises up. So if you are similar then that will hold probably for a few to ten years, but either you you will have to fix the rock and grade or install gutters. Some places you can get away without.
So far my building has been like this over 10 years and it looks the same as when I installed it. We spray for weeds maybe once a year.
I like the look of the stone around the building and will make for less week eating. Curious tho cost wise what gutters on a building that size would run vs the stone drain tile setup.
We don’t have gutters on ours here in mid Michigan. We have gravel, similar to yours.
My Dream is one day to build a similar building,and if I do,I would most certainly use gutters,not only because it keeps the foundation dry and stable,but I would build a water collection system,have some totes hanged up inside(6 feet up) right next to the gutters and use the water with pressure to water my lawn/garden in dry season.You don’t even need a pump,the gravity does it’s job.
Also I would use extra wide gutters and before the water enters the totes I would make a leaves/dirt/sand catch.
Free clean water,with a lot of nutrients,better than any well or city water for plants.
Great idea!
I Love the the size of this building but I think that I would have put a while beside it and I think that I would have had each cross on the building to collect water because as We Know in some parts of the states you do not get a lot of water so even if you had a couple Wells on one on either side to let them fill up because also use the water to sell to other Farmers that might need it and that I do like what you did but I still think I should have been eat Ross to catch the Rainwater that's just my opinion ☝️👋👋👋
Well, you asked for opinions so here’s one from a 25 year residential excavation guy.. If you set your elevation properly to begin with and get good surface water control away from the building, you don’t have to go through the expense and hassle of french drains.
Were it me having only the facts I can see on the video which are limited at best, I’d have set that building high enough to drain the water around into the field where it’s not going to hurt anything. Once again though, my information is limited, and you were there I am not so I won’t die on this hill.
Thanks for entertaining my friend!
Thank you very much sir. The front of the building pad is about 10in above the original grade and the back part is about 16 to 18 in above the original field grade around it to help visualize it. The water all around the perimeter quickly runs away from the building posts. Fortunately.
@@digdrivediy sweet, then it would seem to me the only thing you need to think about is where the water would go after you get it away from the foundation, which it looks like you already have that figured. You should be fine..
As an aside, if you didn’t already know you need 1/4” per foot of grade to move water on dirt. Only 1/8” per foot on asphalt or concrete. So that 10” grade out to the original field is good for 40’ if you didn’t have it going into the ground already.
Good job. I would be curious to see the difference in cost due to the amount of equipment time and stone etc…. I would add filter fabric to the stone so the soil doesn’t mix over time . I’m going to build the same type barn and hope to collect all water in hopes of making a small pond a few hundred feet away in the woods. This looks like a great build though. I would be proud with either system.
Thanks!
My Paul building does not have gutters in my house in West Virginia it will not have gutters you don’t need them if it’s graded right you’re 100% right a lot less hassle
I really like this. The only thing I would have done is put fabric then stone then the pipe. Eventually the sediment is going to fill up the pipe or the clay will clog the slits in the pipe. Adding the fabric is cheap insurance so you don't have to come back in a few years.