Dear Dr./Mr. NurdRage, would you consider putting a slide or two at the end of the video showing electron pushing when you do reactions like this? For educational purposes.
+jakob its not only in the ants themselves, it is also secreted into the anthill to keep it clean. They used to dig up the whole anthill and distill the soil & ants. but indeed you would not get a lot of acid from an anthill, its likely that it was a very low purity.
I saw the bug right at 2:09 . Can anyone suggest what made it jump in like that? One of the chemicals must have acted as a chemoattractant. Does the ester smell fruity?
What stops the glycerol backbone from being tri-esterified? Why won't oxalic acid or formic acid in the reaction mixture continue making esters on the other two hydroxyl groups? Is it purely steric hindrances?
I'm sure it will form esters on all hydroxyl groups. When the concentration of glycerol is very high formic acid is more likely to "find" non substituted and mono esterfied glycerols than di esterfied ones. So a statistics/concentrations thing. Sterics are likely not a problem, as many fatty acids have a similar structure with bigger substituents. This will still lead to the same results/product after hydrolysis, theoretically needing less catalyst but due to decomposition the reaction was run with excess.
I prefer the Soxhlet extraction method, in which I fill the thimble of the extractor with ants. Do you think water would be the most effective extraction solvent in this instance?
I've heard ant brain has 100x more cells for the same volume, and 1000x more connections... (So 100,000x more bits of info?) I have also heard of a lawyer that had untreated childhood encephalitis and after getting a PET scan as an adult, only 1cm³ of their cerebrum was alive!! Does that make ants somewhat equivalent to lawyers? All the more reason to boil them in a extractor..
@NurdRage When I did this, I forgot what the temperatures were and I couldn't be bothered looking them back up. So, I just went very careful on the heating. It turns out that if you are very careful on the heating, your glycerine does not darken. Pop a stir bar in there and it looks like any old clear solution
Thanks, I know how it works, but I think a guide at chemistry and amateur level could be awesome to see. Almost every of the experiments here require some pricy equipment and knowledge and are far away of the amateur chemist, maybe this could help in that matter :D
Bug Hunter check out Nile Red's channel He removed glycerine from vegetable oil Also ChemPlayer made biodiesel from the same process and even tested its flash point cofirming it's potential use as fuel
something that videos never mention is that concentrated formic acid smells horrible. i handled it just like in the big book (with gloves) but once i opened the cap i felt a strong, sour pain in my nose and sinuses.
I've read somewhere that electrolysis of glycerol produces formic acid as a byproduct. Would it be better to go down that route and not waste oxalic acid?
Oxalic acid isn't that expensive either. I read a paper on making the reaction you mention, it seems more difficult to achieve without high quality equipment.
Saw the same I think on OrgSynth site, glycerol and oxallic acid (plus something, acid?) anyway glyc forms a double ester with oxalic which loses 2 CO2 at once and product is primarily allyl alcohol.
Shit, I'm getting so much refluxing that the water from the initial oxalic acid is being driven off incredibly slowly. I'm worried that the mixture is decomposing since I can't get the water to distill over without raising the heat. My flask neck/still head is too long and no matter how much I insulate it I can't keep the water from condensing in the column before reaching the condenser. I have a weird glass distillation setup I got years ago from United Nuclear. I may have to scrap ths completely and try again when I can get a proper glass distillation set with a shorter path for the vapors. I have only collected a small amount of liquid however the temp in the still head hasn't risen above 95C and it had been stuck at around 53C and 88C for a while at a few points in the distillation. Not looking good, I don't want to potentially form anymore toxic decomposition products.
"Oxalic acid is just carbonic acid with carbon monoxide." Org Synth has a synthesis of allyl alcohol by distilling glycerol plus oxalic acid via oxalic 1,2 glycerol ester.
I think he could make consumable non-complex chemicals, but the issue is impurities. He's working with home-distilled solvents and home-purified chemicals. They probably would not pass for anything in the pharmacy, but I'd be willing to bet he could hit at least 95% purity with some serious purification steps. He could make complex pharmaceuticals, but it would take a lot of time and capital. It's also is an issue of scale. Chemical companies can get insanely large yields because they have large-scale reactors and start with high-grade solvents/chemicals. It makes it much more economically viable for complex and even non-complex chemical synthesis.
95% purity? try 99.98% purity with fractional crystalization, its not hard to make pharmaceutically pure drugs (provided you know what your doing) but you cannot sell any consumable products without FDA approval, the FDA are the guys who will want you using pure solvents and reagents. Impure solvents and reagents will affect yield and leave you with slightly more impurities than if you used pure reagents and solvents, the pharmaceutical companies still likely (although dependent on final reaction and workup) produce an impure end product that requires further purification to get a consumable product.
Dammit Gary.
Poor Gary :( another victim in the name of science
Can I have his 20 bucks? I won't jump in and disturb your work.
Well,,look at the bright size: With his 20 bucks you can still get some glassware or chemicals xD
that was actually interesting. why would Gary wonder into that vessel? Was it because it was warm? or because it smelled something tasty?
I mean, chemplayer has killed many ants in the name of science!
RIP Gary, you will not be missed at all
Why does formic acid neutralize all other acids?
It's the ant-acid.
...I'll show myself out.
Biospark88 lol
Nice
#punmaster
This comment was ANTagonising.
I had to re read it as I that wrong
but but but I'm over a minute and a half in and he hasn't crushed our expectations!! lol
You're a cool dude. Chemistry is cool, and your videos are well made. Can't believe I haven't subscribed yet, so that's taken care of. Take care.
RIP the formic acid addict gary
dammit Gary, YOU HAD ONE JOB.
Gary's all like "Hey, hold my beer and watch this!"
Glycerol Garry
was a good
guy actually.
R.I.P. GG at Bug's Afterlife!
RIP Gary.
Gone but never forgotten.
great video. thanks
Dear Dr./Mr. NurdRage, would you consider putting a slide or two at the end of the video showing electron pushing when you do reactions like this? For educational purposes.
Gary is my hero :')
He didn't sell his soul
There's a much easier way to do this.
Step 1: Put a whole bunch of ants in a juicer.
That's it.
2. Deal with PETA.
Yes fireants suck. So would this stuff feel like getting stung by a 50 pound ant?
only if you inject it
If PETA shows up, that confirms they care more about ants than any other animal
+jakob its not only in the ants themselves, it is also secreted into the anthill to keep it clean.
They used to dig up the whole anthill and distill the soil & ants. but indeed you would not get a lot of acid from an anthill, its likely that it was a very low purity.
Formic acid? Super! Thank you very much!
Very Nice👍👍👍👍
Hey! There you are. I been looking for Gary for ever. lol
I saw the bug right at 2:09 . Can anyone suggest what made it jump in like that? One of the chemicals must have acted as a chemoattractant. Does the ester smell fruity?
Archishman Ghosh maybe it eats ants. Such smell of formic acid probably meant a party to him.
Anyone else notice that formic acid = "HOOCH"?
gmc9753 😂
Brilliant
added to gin (a type of hooch) to make anty gin
Is it possible to obtain formic acid while making levulinic acid from saccharose and sulfuric acid?
Você é o cara 👏
Great tutorial. But why did you pour the distant back in at timestamp 4:51?
The distillate was contaminated by a bug which is why NurdRage had to pour it out. The bug would have likely affected the distillate's purity
But it wasn't the stuff he wanted the keep.
could you make allyl alchool video ?
Question: what does the QR-code in the credits do?
Looks like it's an address for bitcoin donations.
the code reads 1NurdRAge7PNR4ULrbrpcYvc9RC4LDp9ps and it's to donate via bitcoin
Daniel F. Takes you to a Bitcoin address
Thanks.
Gary: Proof that evolution is about the survival of the smartest... :P
Great 👍 channel.
What stops the glycerol backbone from being tri-esterified? Why won't oxalic acid or formic acid in the reaction mixture continue making esters on the other two hydroxyl groups? Is it purely steric hindrances?
I'm sure it will form esters on all hydroxyl groups. When the concentration of glycerol is very high formic acid is more likely to "find" non substituted and mono esterfied glycerols than di esterfied ones. So a statistics/concentrations thing. Sterics are likely not a problem, as many fatty acids have a similar structure with bigger substituents. This will still lead to the same results/product after hydrolysis, theoretically needing less catalyst but due to decomposition the reaction was run with excess.
Stoichiometry
Interesting approach!
Can you do this with ethylene glycol instead of glycerine
in theory it should work. I haven't tried it myself but i don't immediately see a problem.
The bug's name is Bob! Which is why he was confused and took a dip when you called him Gary.
I prefer the Soxhlet extraction method, in which I fill the thimble of the extractor with ants. Do you think water would be the most effective extraction solvent in this instance?
I've heard ant brain has 100x more cells for the same volume, and 1000x more connections... (So 100,000x more bits of info?)
I have also heard of a lawyer that had untreated childhood encephalitis and after getting a PET scan as an adult, only 1cm³ of their cerebrum was alive!!
Does that make ants somewhat equivalent to lawyers? All the more reason to boil them in a extractor..
Can formic acid be dissolved in glycerin
Like oxalic acid can be or will it react to form some thing else.
Using it to kill varroa mites in bee hives.
Is it theoretically possible to decompose the oxalic acid into the CO2 and formic acid?
"it will mostly sublime and decompose"
oh god i thought this gonna be an april fools prank and you would crush ants... thank god
@NurdRage When I did this, I forgot what the temperatures were and I couldn't be bothered looking them back up. So, I just went very careful on the heating. It turns out that if you are very careful on the heating, your glycerine does not darken. Pop a stir bar in there and it looks like any old clear solution
RIP Gary, 2017-2017
Could be possible to see a Biodiesel make and purify Guide?
Bug Hunter
just decompose triglycerides with (m)ethanol and then you'll have (m)ethyl esters (biodiesel) and glycerol.
Thanks, I know how it works, but I think a guide at chemistry and amateur level could be awesome to see. Almost every of the experiments here require some pricy equipment and knowledge and are far away of the amateur chemist, maybe this could help in that matter :D
Bug Hunter check out Nile Red's channel
He removed glycerine from vegetable oil
Also ChemPlayer made biodiesel from the same process and even tested its flash point cofirming it's potential use as fuel
i'm thinking of suporting you, just subscibed a few weeks ago and i'm just fascinated by your work ( sorry for my english )
are you the additions oxalic acid 100gr as 25 gr and 25 gr ...? or the summation 400gr .thank-you.
Can you make formic acid with carbon monoxide and water?
BTW this Gary bug part was fun you make learning more interesting
I think the bug was somehow attracted to the smell of the chemicals
something that videos never mention is that concentrated formic acid smells horrible. i handled it just like in the big book (with gloves) but once i opened the cap i felt a strong, sour pain in my nose and sinuses.
2:04 The random mutant fly was returned
Thanks
Nice video
why thank you!
R.I.P Gary.
distilling ants?? maybe chemplayer can use some of his ants for this purpose!
rip chemplayer('s channel).
So what's the advantage of doing it this way as opposed to just oxidizing the hell out of methanol and distilling?
This one actually works
RIP Garry. you will be remembered.
Thanks for information
You named him what, now?
Sir what should take precautions in reaction between Formic acid and H202 ??
I've read somewhere that electrolysis of glycerol produces formic acid as a byproduct. Would it be better to go down that route and not waste oxalic acid?
Oxalic acid isn't that expensive either. I read a paper on making the reaction you mention, it seems more difficult to achieve without high quality equipment.
What is formic acid 88% means ?
Can I use just sodium formate to reduce palladium from HCl and HNO3 solution, or can i use the sodium formate to make formic acid?
Thanks
Also, is vegetable glycerine from the vape shop ok to use?
Is it true that chemists originally used ants to make formic acid? If so, how did they do it?
Litteraly, put ants in flask and distill them. Cruel, but that's how acid got it's name
Fucked a ton of ants in a distillation flask and distilled them, no joke.
Nikola Jambrović cruel but they out number us a billion to one I think their fine
I wouldn't call it cruel, ants are literally incapable of sensing "pain" as we understand it. They don't even have real brains, just ganglia.
ask chemplayer why they have ants everywhere in their lab :)
I added water to the acid and my house exploded (along with a little bit of the neighbor's), what do i do now???
Call Statefarm?
because they seen it all
Blame it on Gary
Saw the same I think on OrgSynth site, glycerol and oxallic acid (plus something, acid?) anyway glyc forms a double ester with oxalic which loses 2 CO2 at once and product is primarily allyl alcohol.
Just to be completely stupid: is this what Ender used to defeat the buggers? :)
this is good for making calcium formate
can I make a hydrochloride acid out of oxalic acid
no, it doesnt have any chlorine in it
I don't know like adding it in an other mitral you know
ps ( I have no much chemical vocabulary )-sorry if you didn't understand-
Tilobida thx BTW I need a professional in this ( NurdRage)
Slendaguy no, you cannot make a stronger acid from a weaker one, and Formic Acid is a weaker acid than Hydrochloric Acid
DagasNeedle oooh ok
guess I should ask my chemist porf
I am Here to learn
gary is my idol
Ikw a Better way - distillation of ants 😋
Can you distill ants ?
Shit, I'm getting so much refluxing that the water from the initial oxalic acid is being driven off incredibly slowly. I'm worried that the mixture is decomposing since I can't get the water to distill over without raising the heat. My flask neck/still head is too long and no matter how much I insulate it I can't keep the water from condensing in the column before reaching the condenser. I have a weird glass distillation setup I got years ago from United Nuclear. I may have to scrap ths completely and try again when I can get a proper glass distillation set with a shorter path for the vapors. I have only collected a small amount of liquid however the temp in the still head hasn't risen above 95C and it had been stuck at around 53C and 88C for a while at a few points in the distillation. Not looking good, I don't want to potentially form anymore toxic decomposition products.
So, did you get around doing it properly?
Your number bro
RIP Gary.
Liking for Gary
Rip Gary. November 2016 - March 2017.
To avenge you against bugs I will acquire my formic acid from the OG source: distillation of ants
RIP Gary
Mhon maaf pak hadi kalau vidionya apa ada yg pakai bhsa indonesia nggih pak 🙏🙏😄
Sir I want to know how can I convert 45% formic acid to 85% formic acid
Your number please send me your number and help u.
is so cool
Good@
Please make some quality 4-MMC England needs some
Formic acid. Now I can simulate an ant bite!
Formic Acid common name in Swedish is Ant-Acid...
make formic acid using ants, and a bug as catalyst
CAN YOU MAKE A VIDEO ON ELECTRO PLATING? IT'S A CHEAP EXPERIMENT AND PEOPLE COULD REALLY BENEFIT FROM IT
he already made an amazing video on making your own cheap Platinum electrodes!
"Oxalic acid is just carbonic acid with carbon monoxide." Org Synth has a synthesis of allyl alcohol by distilling glycerol plus oxalic acid via oxalic 1,2 glycerol ester.
love those bugs
The comments are as entertaining as the chemistry here
I was studying this 1 hour ago.
Wouldn't formaldehyde with a basic catalyst reaction make more sense if you want formic acid?
This is OTC/amateur procedure. Formaldehyde is not so easy to obtain
😄 Gary
the part about gary made me laugh so much¡
Can you upload on this video
a video about formic acid, with a bug. Who knew?
Is Gary ok?!?!? the jerk..
I know what I'm doing today!
Rip Gary l
RIP Gary. Pay F to pay respects. But no $20.
Do you have the skills to make pharmaceuticals ?
Christian M he has a long running project for synthesis of pyrimethamime, which is an antimalerial drug.
I think he could make consumable non-complex chemicals, but the issue is impurities. He's working with home-distilled solvents and home-purified chemicals. They probably would not pass for anything in the pharmacy, but I'd be willing to bet he could hit at least 95% purity with some serious purification steps. He could make complex pharmaceuticals, but it would take a lot of time and capital. It's also is an issue of scale. Chemical companies can get insanely large yields because they have large-scale reactors and start with high-grade solvents/chemicals. It makes it much more economically viable for complex and even non-complex chemical synthesis.
If by pharmaceuticals you mean meth, anyone can do that in a 2 liter bottle with crap you have laying around the house.
95% purity? try 99.98% purity with fractional crystalization, its not hard to make pharmaceutically pure drugs (provided you know what your doing) but you cannot sell any consumable products without FDA approval, the FDA are the guys who will want you using pure solvents and reagents. Impure solvents and reagents will affect yield and leave you with slightly more impurities than if you used pure reagents and solvents, the pharmaceutical companies still likely (although dependent on final reaction and workup) produce an impure end product that requires further purification to get a consumable product.
Bug Gary))))))
How To Make 0.1M HCOOH using 0.1M H2SO4?
how much you wana bet he plays a big chemplayer on us and makes carbon monoxide from the dehydration of formic acid via sulfuric acid
Add some to a tattooist's ink, lol.
To think, my ant colonies make this naturally lol