The problem is, Loki does not have NPD. He does have major trust issues, fearful avoidant attachment style, and, idk, some might give him a BPD diagnosis. He's picked up narcissistic patterns as a protection but given how quickly he can step out of them.. they're just that, a defence mechanism picked up in his environment. The way his life had always been, he'd always felt different, humiliated, scapegoated. He was lied to, denied affection and attention his brother got, and yes, he took it to a really dark place at a point, but if you had experienced all that he had, and had the powers of a god, what would you have done? I've grown up in a rather narcissistic family system, and, having the scapegoat role, I used to think not only that I was not good enough and would never succeed at anything, I always thought I was just inherently born a bad person, egotistical, narcissistic, only ever out for my own interests... until I was made to realise that these were all things I'd been told all my life since at least 4yo when my little GC brother was born. I realised that I have done very few bad things, and almost none intentionally, as opposed to all the things I've done well for myself, family's wellbeing etc etc.. Regardless of the internal desire to literally burn the world to the ground at times. I relate to Loki a lot because of this - alienation, feeling different, always being the bad one, and fearful-avoidant attachment. And, given his powers, I don't know that I'd have acted differently, maybe even worse. And when it comes to his home that he loves, even a seemingly far-gone Loki always steps into his heroic shoes to do what is right.
Thank you for commenting. Lokis love for his family is apparent especially in this show. I enjoy his evolution and his rising about all he has been through I dont we fit into neat little boxes but i think that is what they are trying to portray in the show. He is an endearing character for me and his growth is wonderful to watch. I wish you the best thank you for sharing a bit of your own life with us.
I also strongly believe Loki isn't actually a narcissist or has NPD and it's a little triggering when people say he is/does, probably because I identify so strongly with him and my mom IS a narcissist. If anything Odin is the narcissist, and while it's true that kids of narcissists can become a narcissist themselves that's not what I see in Loki at all. Plus from what I've read the scapegoat (which is clearly what Loki is/ represents) wouldn't have become a narcissist. Sure he has a few narcissist tendencies but he definitely doesn't have NPD. If anything I think he grew up with RAD or reactive attachment disorder. Also when people say "he thinks he is better than everyone" this simply isn't true. He only thinks this of beings like humans, because he was raised by Odin to believe they are lower beings. When he compares himself to other Asguardians he wants to be seen as equal, and he believes he is equal to them, not better. As for his lack of empathy that he sometimes shows I feel like that is a result of RAD and the way he was raised, not because he is a narcissist.
He doesn't "step out of them". He's violently thrown for a loop again and again throughout the show and is forced to change. A show which, by the way, has to resolve major emotional issues that would otherwise take years of hard work, in just six episodes. Like honestly, do you think witnessing your own death is a walk in the park? Even for a narcissist? Hell no.
@@H240909 The problem is why would Loki care if he witnessed his own death? This Loki tried to end his own life by falling off the bridge a year ago. Loki's self destructive and he throws himself in harms way as his go to battle strategy, main timeline Loki went up to Thanos with a dagger when he could have just remained hidden and lived. The Loki in the series doesn't care too much about dying as well, on Lamentis 1 Sylvie was scared of that possibility Loki was completely calm and has said he's lost count on how many times he's died, he just doesn't care about this. Honestly Loki is actually too nice, to the extend where I'm wondering what he's thinking. I don't understand how he's able to call Mobius a friend after getting shoved in the time loop and insulted and physically attacked for worrying over another person's safety and telling the truth about the TVA. Mobius calls Loki a narcissist because he's angry with him and Loki will agree if it fits in line with monster image but he doesn't have many of the characteristic traits.
It makes me rather happy to see mental health getting some focus lately, we could all work on our own mental health, and raising awareness is a big part of how you get that done.
@MortalGamerDC1 85 just a narcissist or just narcissistic? If you watched the entire show, you’d see the original commenter’s point in how their main character surely started off as a narcissist and through the show really begins to show growth and character development as he cares for others. All the way to the very end where he literally fights who he loves in an effort to save the universe from an impending force that will be driven to takeover everything regardless of lives lost. He puts his own happiness and goals on the line for the greater good, whereas the Loki from the first episode is infamous for his inability to value people over his own goals and plots. Any failure to see that just misses the entire point of the series. It shows a the story of a selfish antihero becoming a caring selfless hero you quite literally having to figure himself(other timeline’s version of himself)out. Even to the point where he meets several different Loki’s that he is utterly shocked by, before realizing that they’re different shades of him, it’s quite literally looking himself in the mirror and for the first time, he hates what he sees.
@MortalGamerDC1 85 and doom patrol is just DC comics. DC is just the same as Marvel when it comes to being a huge corporation that sells superheroes to the average person. Everyone is broken, nobody is perfect. That’s why Clark Kent/Superman has his issues and Tony Stark/Iron Man is a recovering alcoholic with PTSD. The Guardians are a group of castoffs and misfits while the suicides squad is a group of villains asked to save the world. The Green Latern/Hal Jordan was a wild fighter pilot who became an intergalactic guardian and Captain Marvel/Carol Devers was a wild fighter pilot who became an intergalactic guardian. Martian Manhunter/Vision. Cyborg? Winter solider. Beast/the Thing. Heck Batman and Iron Man both have the super power of being rich. Doom Patrol over the Marvel TV shows is just picking 49ers or Cowboys. Tacos or Burritos. Nike or Adidas. Lakers/Celtics. Giants/Dodgers. Both are just different teams playing the exact same sport my guy. It’s just based on personal preference. *You’re allowed to like what you like, but calling the other side lame is the same as insulting your reflection because the logo on his shirt is backwards.*
lol. all ripped off DC who did it first. shows like Titans, Arrow, Supergirl and Peacemaker all deal with PTSD, depression, narcissism and all around pressure.
Did it tho? I didn't see the series going into those topics at all, other than characters basically telling us "Loki doesn't trust people" to the camera. And a lot of stuff from the movies (like Life on Asgard, the world-shattering knowledge of his true Identity, Thanos, etc.) was either made a joke, completely ignored, or referenced once but never actually exploring it. But I really wish they did, cause those topics would've been great to explore, especially with Loki. But, sadly, I don't think the writers care enough about Loki as a character to talk about those topics surrounding him :/
I've never heard anyone admit they were a narcissist, let alone a narcissistic person abmit it. In my personal, not clinical experience, narcissists never admit to anything that might be seen as a flaw or mistake. They don't apologize (except to manipulate, and in a way that is deviod of real vulnerability and is usually full of self-gratification), don't recognize what they've done wrong, don't feel guilt or remorse or shame. If they hurt someone, they re-define that person's value and worth as unimportant so that it's suddenly "okay" that they hurt that person. Even if it's someone they seemed to care about 30 seconds ago. There's nothing wrong with THEM, the Narcissist, for being cruel. There's something wrong with everyone else for being pathetic/overly sensitive/antagonistic/etc. This is why I don't think asking someone if they're a narcissist will work. Besides, imagine all the people you'd accidentally piss off by making that question to them. I don't think most people would appreciate it. And if the narcissist doesn't appreciate you asking it, be prepared to receive the crap-end of hell over it because they can be spiteful little monsters.
Am I the only one that doesn’t think Loki is narcissistic? I think he craves atttention because he never had any. I don't think he thinks of himself as amazing since he admitted that he doesn't belong to asgard because he was a frostgiant. Also he does love other people too, like his mother and Thor and he doesn't lack empathy and he's very sensitive. When analyzing someone’s character you need to look at a time when the person is stable and behaving like themselves, and do the analysis over a long period of time. You have to be looking at the 1000 years Loki have lived in Thor’s shadow and doing (almost) no complaining about it. The last 10 MCU years are a wink in Loki’s long life and depict him under enormous stress. Narcissists lack theory of mind, which is the ability to comprehend a point of view other than their own. Thus, when they are portrayed in fiction they are rarely relatable and rarely evoke an emotional response. Loki, on the other hand, gained popularity because he was both relatable and emotional.
Maybe not a complete narcissit but the things he has said and done points to some level of narcissism. He doesn't believe humans are on his level and has gone to lengths to screw over many people in order to get the attention he craves at the expense of others lives and wellbeing.
@@djtheturtle1399 no he definitely did some narcissistic things and he had a few narcissistic traits but that doesn’t make someone a narcissist everyone does narcissist things at one point tbh
That is narcissism though. They outwardly project that but inside they are scared and pathetic. But I take the point that he also has the redeeming traits you spoke of, so maybe "narcissistic light" (lol). But to be fair most of that good stuff came from growth.
See, here's the thing...Loki *is not* a narcissist. He tries his best to act like one as a means to protect himself, but he isn't genuinely a narc. He's self-aware, something most narcs aren't. He is capable of empathy and capable of thinking outside of himself and his own interests. He has sometimes sacrificed himself to save others, something a narc would never ever do.
I don’t think him trying to seem stronger by destroying lives in the masses is him simply being misunderstood. I do think he is a recovering narcissist, but we have to be careful of how we ignore the bad things in dangerous people around us. If he murdered ur family, and someone called him misunderstood, you probably wouldn’t feel the same. Plus, he has thousands of years to figure this out. We don’t know how people with NPD would behave or change given that much time.
Some narcissist's do have the ability to learn about how their behavior is affecting others, it's not exactly common but it is possible for them to learn and grow but it all depends on how much they want to change and do better. He's definitely a narcissist but he's trying to grow.
I love how perfectly Mobius is able to slap Loki down. Every quip and statement Mobius is able to come up with a patronising & disabling comeback that perfectly humbles & challanges Loki in a way that's necessary to strip back his facade & force Loki to come to terms with his truth & start his journey of self-actualisation & (sort of) heroric repemption. And this is furthered by his time spent with Sylvie & his raising opposition towards the TVA
The interplay between Mobius and Loki was phenomenal, and it's about as close as we'll likely get to Loki going to therapy. The funny bit is that they're both playing the same game, trying to manipulate the other into doing what they want. Loki's coming to terms with himself was fascinating, and watching him grow right in front of our eyes was rather cool. It's also a bit damning that we can all fall into those parts, manipulating others for our own ends, but at least we can also grow. I think his journey was from Chaotic Evil to Chaotic Good, with a stop at Chaotic Neutral for shits and giggles. Mobius also had a bit of a transformation, going from all in on his job to having the drive to burn it all down, starting with his desk. He took his agency back, breaking free of the control of the TVA, and then working for his own ends. Loki was probably on par with Wandavision when it comes to taking a heavy psychological subject and doing it justice. It boils down to our god of mischief seeking attention, whatever sort of attention that might be, and this was the story of his journey to something better.
I wish you would have talked more about him seeing the moment of his death and realizing that his “Glorious Purpose” wasn’t real, and seeing all the walls come tumbling down around him. It forces him to take a hard look at himself and you get that scene with Mobius afterwards where he has this introspective talk with him.
Narcissists are classed with the Personality Disorders (In the DSM V) for organization. People tend to view it as a Personality, or a group of Personality Traits, because of the way criteria are used to Diagnose something like Narcissism, but in reality, it's an Identity disorder. It's all about Self Image, and how others perceive him. Loki is an Illusionist, even after Frigga is killed (Which he had a hand in leading Kurse to her) he's wrecked, but he keeps up the dapper appearance, because that's how he sees himself. This is how he wants people to see him. He doesn't desire a throne for the power. He desires the dias, so he can see himself reflected in the faces of his subjects looking up at him. Don't mistake the person for the pedestal, because that's ultimately what the Narcissist wants: For you to read the Plague, the epitaph he wrote, and overlook the flaws in the statue. (Or Passion Play)
"A illusion, projected to gain control" is his whole M.O. I think this line is more of a callback, to him introducing himself to the world at Stuttgart. He just had to get an eye. That's all he was at the gala to do, but he literally projected himself around the crowd to make them kneel, then lectured about freedom, and how mortals crave subjugation until Captain America showed up to arrest him. I mean, he just described his MO, unironically. "I know what this is." Somebody treating you the way you treat people, for once?
One has to wonder how much of Loki's "Grand purpose" was instilled into him by Thanos. With Loki seeking love and attention, Thanos routinely finds broken people, abuses and manipulates them as pawns for his own goals. The scene wasn't shown, but Loki being upset by Thanos killing him really put his grandiose idea of himself into perspective. Basically, Loki saw his death and realized that his grandiose purpose was a joke installed by someone who ended up killing him when he became useless.
Agreed! I still think Loki was under the power of the Mind Stone himself, and always wondered what happened to him on that planet (presumably he was there for quite a while). I still think we could have--and should have--gotten an entire movie out of that! (Loved this video. I don't think Loki is an actual narcissist, but he does have tendencies.)
"Loki saw his death and realized that his grandiose purpose was a joke installed by someone who ended up killing him when he became useless." Great perspective! Now, you've got me thinking!
Oh yeah, been waiting on this one! Serious Loki self-involvement escalation, do you think he'll transcend it as part of his arc or just become even more truly himself?
Oh my God I loved this! I'm also a psychologist, no longer a practicing therapist but I love watching every piece of media and analyze it. I'm so happy I found someone who agrees with me, this show was amazing at these details.
Georgia, i adore your videos and explanations. I wanted to tell you about a tv show, I recently started watching “la usurpadora”’ a mexican 1998 series, the protagonist plays two roles, Paulina and Paola Bracho (twin sisters). Paola is the perfect role of narcissism... it might be old series but its a mindblowing story of the crime of usurpation, its psychological, romantic and of course the villain Paola Bracho which I’m sure you will love to analyse. Not only her, other main characters have mental issues as well. The actress played two completely different roles and nailed it! The story became worldwide and its still aired in many countries. It was the hit at the time of 1998. I would love you to watch it and analyse the female narcissist Paola Bracho. It shows all the narcissistic rage and injuries... i swear you will love it! 😃
Hey just keep in mind that pw npd gotten npd due to truama so you shouldnt really demonize thier disorder. This is not an atrack on you btw i just feel uneasy when ppl still mistreat ppl with cluster B disorders wrong just because how thier disorder is treated on the media yk?
I'm sorry. I just cannot agree in any way that Loki is a narcissist. It's weird that so many have attached so much importance to what amounts to a throwaway line from Mobius (and he's not even using the term correctly!). I find it very upsetting that anyone, especially a therapist, would even give the idea consideration. Did we even watch the same films?
ANOTHER wonderful video Georgia Dow! I STILL say you should be a writer because your insights are equal to the best in the industry! I went to university in the U.S. and immediately met this guy who was rich and movie star handsome, best clothes, girls fawning...the whole bit. One day I saw him find a letter/ packet from his parents, which he tore up and threw away without reading. He was annoyed at them for denying him something. I told him that was an arrogant jerk thing to do. Thing is, he wanted to change. We became BF's. When he bemoaned attracting so many girls because of his looks, I assured him that once they got close they'd realize he's not very bright. I would put a pin in his ego and let the air out, and he was grateful. Later, this helped me deal with actors and other industry people.
@@GeorgiaDow Just stating facts...and remember "Loki " has SIX writers...all to put together a story arc which you saw coming because it made the most sense to you...based on your "people" insights. I also remember the one of the two writers for ENDGAME saying that "Oh! Tony has to LOSE his life and Steve has to GET ONE. When we figured that out, we congratulated ourselves and then got milkshakes." I'm guessing YOU like milkshakes ;) Figuring out characters is basically what you do now, correct? The difference would be that you would write it down and get paid more...and reach/help more people.
I'm sad that you only focused on Lokis moments of weakness. You basically dissected him like a frog, and spent no time on his moments of kindness, his joy of "being right" or his progression.
The part the show I still don’t understand is. when they are describing the Loki they need to hunt hunt for the the same kind of Loki that’s standing next to them. but that’s not the case it’s a female Loki.
For a brief moment after the question, "How do you find out someone is a narcissist?", I though I was going to hear the answer be, "Fastest way.......is to give them a swift kick to the nads." Glad that wasn't the answer. :)
I’ve known Loki is a narcissist for a long time, but this video drives home just how drawn to narcissists I am, especially ones who seem unloved and sad and lonely.
Yes, I don't think that your profession clouds your analysis. I think the show is about his redemption arc, and he needs to face his narcissism the way Ed Stark had to face his. Please keep updating the videos with the new episodes. I love it.
What I don’t understand is Loki’s confession to memory Sif that he cut her hair and has done other mean things because as a narcissist he craves attention because he’s scared to be alone. But the mean things that he does is going to cause just that. If he’s scared to be alone then why do horrible things to people? All that is going to do is push people away from him if all he does is lie and does cruel things.
I think you should say it is initially hard to look at your own faults. After you become highly objective and understand how the minds works it is not so hard. The real hurtle is getting to that place though as even starting to see that seems impossible for a lot of people (and most people do not have even the slightest bit of self reflection and/or objectivity). In fact that is what hurts me most now. That most people around me cannot see their glaring flaws or how they hurt the people the love most (or themselves). It is sad and frustrating. Oh and i did do therapy to myself, I did get to where I am now mostly by myself (in terms of objectivity and self correction)... that said I know for most that you are right they do need help with it (really I just got lucky that my interests at the time lead me to research things that would lead me to self correction and objectivity... truth be told it started with debates on religion and how we know what is true and it spiraled out from there).
Well, Loki is the god of hearthfire. Like fuck thunder, that just ruins electric equipment. of course fire can be very da, but that's trickster gods, they can do a lot of harm, but they also are essential for survival. food, warmth. the hearth was essential in culture
At the beginning of this analysis I thought Mobius was totally the therapist Loki needed all his life (far better than Raynor was for Bucky in Falcon and the winter soldier) than it hit me...Mobius is no therapist, at this moment of the story he's a TVA agent that believe in the TVA mission and under all is just trying to manipulate that variant to get the one that has been eluding them and killing his collegues. In short the best therapist for Loki is actually one that exhibit traits of another pathology in the evil triad: machiavelism...wich in my opinion is the less evil of the triad cuz controled it can be use for good purposes. Apprehend someone who's killing your collegues is, in my opinion, a very valid reason to manipulate someone into cooperation. So basically is 2 greatest "allies" in the show is a female version of himself (hell of a way to fuel his narcissism) and someone who use machiavelic tactics to coerce him....but then again it might be me, a machiavelic person, trying to see an "ally" in Mobius to justify what I called "compassionate and empathic use of machiavelism" as a valid problem resolution tactic....
Hey just keep in mind that pw npd gotten npd due to truama so you shouldnt really demonize thier disorder. This is not an atrack on you btw i just feel uneasy when ppl still mistreat ppl with cluster B disorders wrong just because how thier disorder is treated on the media yk?
I also like to add that a person with npd can be abusers but the concept of ""narcassistic abuse"" isnt real its just abuse. I heard it from narcassistic ppl themselves so tbh im going to listen to them because they have that disorder
Just because someone has a traumagenic disorder doesn't mean they deserve to be let off the hook. Narcissists almost always hurt people with their narcissism, often knowing full well what they're doing. Childhood trauma is not an excuse to hurt people. Stop giving hurtful people sympathy- that's exactly what they look for in their victims and exactly what they take advantage of.
New video on the Loki Finale! th-cam.com/video/8rzqhS7-oQc/w-d-xo.html
The problem is, Loki does not have NPD. He does have major trust issues, fearful avoidant attachment style, and, idk, some might give him a BPD diagnosis. He's picked up narcissistic patterns as a protection but given how quickly he can step out of them.. they're just that, a defence mechanism picked up in his environment. The way his life had always been, he'd always felt different, humiliated, scapegoated. He was lied to, denied affection and attention his brother got, and yes, he took it to a really dark place at a point, but if you had experienced all that he had, and had the powers of a god, what would you have done?
I've grown up in a rather narcissistic family system, and, having the scapegoat role, I used to think not only that I was not good enough and would never succeed at anything, I always thought I was just inherently born a bad person, egotistical, narcissistic, only ever out for my own interests... until I was made to realise that these were all things I'd been told all my life since at least 4yo when my little GC brother was born. I realised that I have done very few bad things, and almost none intentionally, as opposed to all the things I've done well for myself, family's wellbeing etc etc.. Regardless of the internal desire to literally burn the world to the ground at times.
I relate to Loki a lot because of this - alienation, feeling different, always being the bad one, and fearful-avoidant attachment. And, given his powers, I don't know that I'd have acted differently, maybe even worse. And when it comes to his home that he loves, even a seemingly far-gone Loki always steps into his heroic shoes to do what is right.
Thank you for commenting. Lokis love for his family is apparent especially in this show. I enjoy his evolution and his rising about all he has been through I dont we fit into neat little boxes but i think that is what they are trying to portray in the show. He is an endearing character for me and his growth is wonderful to watch. I wish you the best thank you for sharing a bit of your own life with us.
I also strongly believe Loki isn't actually a narcissist or has NPD and it's a little triggering when people say he is/does, probably because I identify so strongly with him and my mom IS a narcissist. If anything Odin is the narcissist, and while it's true that kids of narcissists can become a narcissist themselves that's not what I see in Loki at all. Plus from what I've read the scapegoat (which is clearly what Loki is/ represents) wouldn't have become a narcissist. Sure he has a few narcissist tendencies but he definitely doesn't have NPD. If anything I think he grew up with RAD or reactive attachment disorder.
Also when people say "he thinks he is better than everyone" this simply isn't true. He only thinks this of beings like humans, because he was raised by Odin to believe they are lower beings. When he compares himself to other Asguardians he wants to be seen as equal, and he believes he is equal to them, not better. As for his lack of empathy that he sometimes shows I feel like that is a result of RAD and the way he was raised, not because he is a narcissist.
He doesn't "step out of them". He's violently thrown for a loop again and again throughout the show and is forced to change. A show which, by the way, has to resolve major emotional issues that would otherwise take years of hard work, in just six episodes. Like honestly, do you think witnessing your own death is a walk in the park? Even for a narcissist? Hell no.
@@H240909 The problem is why would Loki care if he witnessed his own death? This Loki tried to end his own life by falling off the bridge a year ago. Loki's self destructive and he throws himself in harms way as his go to battle strategy, main timeline Loki went up to Thanos with a dagger when he could have just remained hidden and lived.
The Loki in the series doesn't care too much about dying as well, on Lamentis 1 Sylvie was scared of that possibility Loki was completely calm and has said he's lost count on how many times he's died, he just doesn't care about this.
Honestly Loki is actually too nice, to the extend where I'm wondering what he's thinking. I don't understand how he's able to call Mobius a friend after getting shoved in the time loop and insulted and physically attacked for worrying over another person's safety and telling the truth about the TVA. Mobius calls Loki a narcissist because he's angry with him and Loki will agree if it fits in line with monster image but he doesn't have many of the characteristic traits.
@@chaoticneutralsheep What are you talking about? When did Loki try to end his own life?
I love how marvel shows like Wandavision , FATWS and Loki deals with depression/trauma and forgiveness , PTDS and trust issue
It makes me rather happy to see mental health getting some focus lately, we could all work on our own mental health, and raising awareness is a big part of how you get that done.
@MortalGamerDC1 85 just a narcissist or just narcissistic? If you watched the entire show, you’d see the original commenter’s point in how their main character surely started off as a narcissist and through the show really begins to show growth and character development as he cares for others. All the way to the very end where he literally fights who he loves in an effort to save the universe from an impending force that will be driven to takeover everything regardless of lives lost. He puts his own happiness and goals on the line for the greater good, whereas the Loki from the first episode is infamous for his inability to value people over his own goals and plots.
Any failure to see that just misses the entire point of the series.
It shows a the story of a selfish antihero becoming a caring selfless hero you quite literally having to figure himself(other timeline’s version of himself)out.
Even to the point where he meets several different Loki’s that he is utterly shocked by, before realizing that they’re different shades of him, it’s quite literally looking himself in the mirror and for the first time, he hates what he sees.
@MortalGamerDC1 85 and doom patrol is just DC comics. DC is just the same as Marvel when it comes to being a huge corporation that sells superheroes to the average person.
Everyone is broken, nobody is perfect. That’s why Clark Kent/Superman has his issues and Tony Stark/Iron Man is a recovering alcoholic with PTSD.
The Guardians are a group of castoffs and misfits while the suicides squad is a group of villains asked to save the world. The Green Latern/Hal Jordan was a wild fighter pilot who became an intergalactic guardian and Captain Marvel/Carol Devers was a wild fighter pilot who became an intergalactic guardian. Martian Manhunter/Vision. Cyborg? Winter solider. Beast/the Thing. Heck Batman and Iron Man both have the super power of being rich.
Doom Patrol over the Marvel TV shows is just picking 49ers or Cowboys. Tacos or Burritos. Nike or Adidas. Lakers/Celtics. Giants/Dodgers.
Both are just different teams playing the exact same sport my guy. It’s just based on personal preference.
*You’re allowed to like what you like, but calling the other side lame is the same as insulting your reflection because the logo on his shirt is backwards.*
lol. all ripped off DC who did it first.
shows like Titans, Arrow, Supergirl and Peacemaker all deal with PTSD, depression, narcissism and all around pressure.
Did it tho? I didn't see the series going into those topics at all, other than characters basically telling us "Loki doesn't trust people" to the camera. And a lot of stuff from the movies (like Life on Asgard, the world-shattering knowledge of his true Identity, Thanos, etc.) was either made a joke, completely ignored, or referenced once but never actually exploring it. But I really wish they did, cause those topics would've been great to explore, especially with Loki. But, sadly, I don't think the writers care enough about Loki as a character to talk about those topics surrounding him :/
I've never heard anyone admit they were a narcissist, let alone a narcissistic person abmit it. In my personal, not clinical experience, narcissists never admit to anything that might be seen as a flaw or mistake. They don't apologize (except to manipulate, and in a way that is deviod of real vulnerability and is usually full of self-gratification), don't recognize what they've done wrong, don't feel guilt or remorse or shame. If they hurt someone, they re-define that person's value and worth as unimportant so that it's suddenly "okay" that they hurt that person. Even if it's someone they seemed to care about 30 seconds ago. There's nothing wrong with THEM, the Narcissist, for being cruel. There's something wrong with everyone else for being pathetic/overly sensitive/antagonistic/etc.
This is why I don't think asking someone if they're a narcissist will work. Besides, imagine all the people you'd accidentally piss off by making that question to them. I don't think most people would appreciate it. And if the narcissist doesn't appreciate you asking it, be prepared to receive the crap-end of hell over it because they can be spiteful little monsters.
Am I the only one that doesn’t think Loki is narcissistic? I think he craves atttention because he never had any. I don't think he thinks of himself as amazing since he admitted that he doesn't belong to asgard because he was a frostgiant.
Also he does love other people too, like his mother and Thor and he doesn't lack empathy and he's very sensitive.
When analyzing someone’s character you need to look at a time when the person is stable and behaving like themselves, and do the analysis over a long period of time. You have to be looking at the 1000 years Loki have lived in Thor’s shadow and doing (almost) no complaining about it. The last 10 MCU years are a wink in Loki’s long life and depict him under enormous stress. Narcissists lack theory of mind, which is the ability to comprehend a point of view other than their own. Thus, when they are portrayed in fiction they are rarely relatable and rarely evoke an emotional response. Loki, on the other hand, gained popularity because he was both relatable and emotional.
I agree
Maybe not a complete narcissit but the things he has said and done points to some level of narcissism. He doesn't believe humans are on his level and has gone to lengths to screw over many people in order to get the attention he craves at the expense of others lives and wellbeing.
@@djtheturtle1399 no he definitely did some narcissistic things and he had a few narcissistic traits but that doesn’t make someone a narcissist everyone does narcissist things at one point tbh
@@user-tt8tz8pt5u it’s weird asf and so unlike him he hated himself
That is narcissism though. They outwardly project that but inside they are scared and pathetic. But I take the point that he also has the redeeming traits you spoke of, so maybe "narcissistic light" (lol). But to be fair most of that good stuff came from growth.
See, here's the thing...Loki *is not* a narcissist. He tries his best to act like one as a means to protect himself, but he isn't genuinely a narc. He's self-aware, something most narcs aren't. He is capable of empathy and capable of thinking outside of himself and his own interests. He has sometimes sacrificed himself to save others, something a narc would never ever do.
I don’t think him trying to seem stronger by destroying lives in the masses is him simply being misunderstood. I do think he is a recovering narcissist, but we have to be careful of how we ignore the bad things in dangerous people around us. If he murdered ur family, and someone called him misunderstood, you probably wouldn’t feel the same. Plus, he has thousands of years to figure this out. We don’t know how people with NPD would behave or change given that much time.
He is still a narcissist, he fell in love with Sylvie, She is a female version of Loki
Some narcissist's do have the ability to learn about how their behavior is affecting others, it's not exactly common but it is possible for them to learn and grow but it all depends on how much they want to change and do better. He's definitely a narcissist but he's trying to grow.
I love how perfectly Mobius is able to slap Loki down. Every quip and statement Mobius is able to come up with a patronising & disabling comeback that perfectly humbles & challanges Loki in a way that's necessary to strip back his facade & force Loki to come to terms with his truth & start his journey of self-actualisation & (sort of) heroric repemption. And this is furthered by his time spent with Sylvie & his raising opposition towards the TVA
I feel the same way
Mobius was Loki's therapist, and Loki was Mobius' catalyst. Win/Win anybody?
😭
@@GeorgiaDow Owen Wilson was perfect for that role lol. He came across so believable in his deconstruction of Loki.
The interplay between Mobius and Loki was phenomenal, and it's about as close as we'll likely get to Loki going to therapy. The funny bit is that they're both playing the same game, trying to manipulate the other into doing what they want. Loki's coming to terms with himself was fascinating, and watching him grow right in front of our eyes was rather cool. It's also a bit damning that we can all fall into those parts, manipulating others for our own ends, but at least we can also grow. I think his journey was from Chaotic Evil to Chaotic Good, with a stop at Chaotic Neutral for shits and giggles. Mobius also had a bit of a transformation, going from all in on his job to having the drive to burn it all down, starting with his desk. He took his agency back, breaking free of the control of the TVA, and then working for his own ends. Loki was probably on par with Wandavision when it comes to taking a heavy psychological subject and doing it justice.
It boils down to our god of mischief seeking attention, whatever sort of attention that might be, and this was the story of his journey to something better.
It’s great to see you back making content!
Thank you I am happy to be back =)
I love your take in your analysis of these movies/tv shows, subscribing now !
He also seems capable of empathy so maybe BPD? (Doctor Drea Letamendi thinks so too.)
I wish you would have talked more about him seeing the moment of his death and realizing that his “Glorious Purpose” wasn’t real, and seeing all the walls come tumbling down around him. It forces him to take a hard look at himself and you get that scene with Mobius afterwards where he has this introspective talk with him.
Yeah, me too. She was right on the money with the 'elaborate trick' being him projecting. It's precisely what he says about himself there.
Narcissists are classed with the Personality Disorders (In the DSM V) for organization. People tend to view it as a Personality, or a group of Personality Traits, because of the way criteria are used to Diagnose something like Narcissism, but in reality, it's an Identity disorder. It's all about Self Image, and how others perceive him. Loki is an Illusionist, even after Frigga is killed (Which he had a hand in leading Kurse to her) he's wrecked, but he keeps up the dapper appearance, because that's how he sees himself. This is how he wants people to see him. He doesn't desire a throne for the power. He desires the dias, so he can see himself reflected in the faces of his subjects looking up at him. Don't mistake the person for the pedestal, because that's ultimately what the Narcissist wants: For you to read the Plague, the epitaph he wrote, and overlook the flaws in the statue. (Or Passion Play)
"A illusion, projected to gain control" is his whole M.O. I think this line is more of a callback, to him introducing himself to the world at Stuttgart. He just had to get an eye. That's all he was at the gala to do, but he literally projected himself around the crowd to make them kneel, then lectured about freedom, and how mortals crave subjugation until Captain America showed up to arrest him. I mean, he just described his MO, unironically. "I know what this is." Somebody treating you the way you treat people, for once?
One has to wonder how much of Loki's "Grand purpose" was instilled into him by Thanos. With Loki seeking love and attention, Thanos routinely finds broken people, abuses and manipulates them as pawns for his own goals.
The scene wasn't shown, but Loki being upset by Thanos killing him really put his grandiose idea of himself into perspective.
Basically, Loki saw his death and realized that his grandiose purpose was a joke installed by someone who ended up killing him when he became useless.
Agreed! I still think Loki was under the power of the Mind Stone himself, and always wondered what happened to him on that planet (presumably he was there for quite a while). I still think we could have--and should have--gotten an entire movie out of that! (Loved this video. I don't think Loki is an actual narcissist, but he does have tendencies.)
"Loki saw his death and realized that his grandiose purpose was a joke installed by someone who ended up killing him when he became useless."
Great perspective! Now, you've got me thinking!
Oh yeah, been waiting on this one! Serious Loki self-involvement escalation, do you think he'll transcend it as part of his arc or just become even more truly himself?
And if so, which one? :P
I’ve definitely been looking forward to your view on the Loki series. Great video!
Thanks
I didn’t realize Mobius was that brutal lol
I greatly enjoyed the insight from your reaction video. Blessings on your day .
You also thanks so much
Alternative title of the video would be "Therapist have an existential crisis while watching Loki and along with Loki."
hehe
Oh my God I loved this! I'm also a psychologist, no longer a practicing therapist but I love watching every piece of media and analyze it. I'm so happy I found someone who agrees with me, this show was amazing at these details.
You deserve more subscribers! This is amazing :)
Thank You 🙏🏾
Georgia, i adore your videos and explanations. I wanted to tell you about a tv show, I recently started watching “la usurpadora”’ a mexican 1998 series, the protagonist plays two roles, Paulina and Paola Bracho (twin sisters). Paola is the perfect role of narcissism... it might be old series but its a mindblowing story of the crime of usurpation, its psychological, romantic and of course the villain Paola Bracho which I’m sure you will love to analyse. Not only her, other main characters have mental issues as well. The actress played two completely different roles and nailed it! The story became worldwide and its still aired in many countries. It was the hit at the time of 1998. I would love you to watch it and analyse the female narcissist Paola Bracho. It shows all the narcissistic rage and injuries... i swear you will love it! 😃
I'd love your take on all of the Lokis in Episode 5.
Wow this is eye-opening
Hey just keep in mind that pw npd gotten npd due to truama so you shouldnt really demonize thier disorder. This is not an atrack on you btw i just feel uneasy when ppl still mistreat ppl with cluster B disorders wrong just because how thier disorder is treated on the media yk?
I had a "friend" with narcissistic personality disorder. Because of my autism, I was blind to all the red flags.
Loki feels a lot like Tal-Rho on Superman and Lois. I would love to see a therapist breakdown of Kal-El and Tal-Rho's relationship as brothers.
You should react to the Brooklyn 99 episode called “the therapist” it’s season 6 episode 11, btw I love your videos
I'm sorry. I just cannot agree in any way that Loki is a narcissist. It's weird that so many have attached so much importance to what amounts to a throwaway line from Mobius (and he's not even using the term correctly!). I find it very upsetting that anyone, especially a therapist, would even give the idea consideration. Did we even watch the same films?
ANOTHER wonderful video Georgia Dow! I STILL say you should be a writer because your insights are equal to the best in the industry! I went to university in the U.S. and immediately met this guy who was rich and movie star handsome, best clothes, girls fawning...the whole bit. One day I saw him find a letter/ packet from his parents, which he tore up and threw away without reading. He was annoyed at them for denying him something. I told him that was an arrogant jerk thing to do. Thing is, he wanted to change. We became BF's. When he bemoaned attracting so many girls because of his looks, I assured him that once they got close they'd realize he's not very bright. I would put a pin in his ego and let the air out, and he was grateful. Later, this helped me deal with actors and other industry people.
Thanks such a kind compliment - made my day
@@GeorgiaDow Just stating facts...and remember "Loki " has SIX writers...all to put together a story arc which you saw coming because it made the most sense to you...based on your "people" insights. I also remember the one of the two writers for ENDGAME saying that "Oh! Tony has to LOSE his life and Steve has to GET ONE. When we figured that out, we congratulated ourselves and then got milkshakes." I'm guessing YOU like milkshakes ;) Figuring out characters is basically what you do now, correct? The difference would be that you would write it down and get paid more...and reach/help more people.
I love to see you back!
thank you amber =)
Great to see you back!
thanks
I'm sad that you only focused on Lokis moments of weakness. You basically dissected him like a frog, and spent no time on his moments of kindness, his joy of "being right" or his progression.
My other video on Loki will make you really happy I think then =)
I really love your videos. Entertaining and educational. Way to go. Keep making like these contents
I hope to keep it up - its lots of fun
The part the show I still don’t understand is. when they are describing the Loki they need to hunt hunt for the the same kind of Loki that’s standing next to them. but that’s not the case it’s a female Loki.
For a brief moment after the question, "How do you find out someone is a narcissist?", I though I was going to hear the answer be, "Fastest way.......is to give them a swift kick to the nads." Glad that wasn't the answer. :)
Since her name is Sylvie they are different people so it’s totally ok. So technically he's not in love with himself 😜
hahah I did like them together
I’ve known Loki is a narcissist for a long time, but this video drives home just how drawn to narcissists I am, especially ones who seem unloved and sad and lonely.
Coool
But Loki was right, the time keepers are a show.
Welcome back from your break!
merci Evan
I loved
thank you
Yes, I don't think that your profession clouds your analysis. I think the show is about his redemption arc, and he needs to face his narcissism the way Ed Stark had to face his. Please keep updating the videos with the new episodes. I love it.
I don't see this on nebula.. Is it not posted there, seems to have been a gap
What I don’t understand is Loki’s confession to memory Sif that he cut her hair and has done other mean things because as a narcissist he craves attention because he’s scared to be alone. But the mean things that he does is going to cause just that. If he’s scared to be alone then why do horrible things to people? All that is going to do is push people away from him if all he does is lie and does cruel things.
Because any attention is better than no attention at all. And yes, I felt that.
Are you Felicia day in another life?
I think you should say it is initially hard to look at your own faults. After you become highly objective and understand how the minds works it is not so hard. The real hurtle is getting to that place though as even starting to see that seems impossible for a lot of people (and most people do not have even the slightest bit of self reflection and/or objectivity). In fact that is what hurts me most now. That most people around me cannot see their glaring flaws or how they hurt the people the love most (or themselves). It is sad and frustrating.
Oh and i did do therapy to myself, I did get to where I am now mostly by myself (in terms of objectivity and self correction)... that said I know for most that you are right they do need help with it (really I just got lucky that my interests at the time lead me to research things that would lead me to self correction and objectivity... truth be told it started with debates on religion and how we know what is true and it spiraled out from there).
Well, Loki is the god of hearthfire. Like fuck thunder, that just ruins electric equipment. of course fire can be very da, but that's trickster gods, they can do a lot of harm, but they also are essential for survival. food, warmth. the hearth was essential in culture
i would love to se guardians of the galaxy :)
At the beginning of this analysis I thought Mobius was totally the therapist Loki needed all his life (far better than Raynor was for Bucky in Falcon and the winter soldier) than it hit me...Mobius is no therapist, at this moment of the story he's a TVA agent that believe in the TVA mission and under all is just trying to manipulate that variant to get the one that has been eluding them and killing his collegues. In short the best therapist for Loki is actually one that exhibit traits of another pathology in the evil triad: machiavelism...wich in my opinion is the less evil of the triad cuz controled it can be use for good purposes. Apprehend someone who's killing your collegues is, in my opinion, a very valid reason to manipulate someone into cooperation.
So basically is 2 greatest "allies" in the show is a female version of himself (hell of a way to fuel his narcissism) and someone who use machiavelic tactics to coerce him....but then again it might be me, a machiavelic person, trying to see an "ally" in Mobius to justify what I called "compassionate and empathic use of machiavelism" as a valid problem resolution tactic....
lol. Marvel trash.
Do DCs Peacemaker.
Now that's a therapist's nightmare!
I did peacemaker in the movie I dont know if I will cover the show I dont know if I have much to change from it
Hey just keep in mind that pw npd gotten npd due to truama so you shouldnt really demonize thier disorder. This is not an atrack on you btw i just feel uneasy when ppl still mistreat ppl with cluster B disorders wrong just because how thier disorder is treated on the media yk?
I also like to add that a person with npd can be abusers but the concept of ""narcassistic abuse"" isnt real its just abuse. I heard it from narcassistic ppl themselves so tbh im going to listen to them because they have that disorder
Just because someone has a traumagenic disorder doesn't mean they deserve to be let off the hook. Narcissists almost always hurt people with their narcissism, often knowing full well what they're doing. Childhood trauma is not an excuse to hurt people. Stop giving hurtful people sympathy- that's exactly what they look for in their victims and exactly what they take advantage of.