Good to see you again. They really don't get it either; they just think they do. The Abrahamic god is logically impossible. As for the want to believe, it has a lot to do with the harshness of reality. The death of a loved one and the fear of dying are powerful motivators in this regard.
When I was a christian, I wanted god to be true because I saw injustice that I was powerless towards, and I wanted there to be a higher power that I could pray to and that could help. When I prayed I felt like I was helping people. However I am now an atheist, and when I see injustice I realise that wishful thinking wont help anything :(
You are a gem. . . I think that the belief in god comes from extreme fear of death. My mother was a borderline agnostic until she watched her mother die. Then she converted to extremism almost overnight.
Belief in a deity is really just an extension of primitive tribalism wherein a leader is worshiped as a savior/provider. The human brain was hardwired to accept that sort of adoration and loyalty as beneficial to survival and the cerebral circuitry of most people retains at least vestigial elements of that mindset. Those of us who find it absurd and simply cannot indulge in such beliefs are simply not hard-wired in the same way. I like to think of us as being the next step in evolution.
Good stuff. I Like you. Please don't try and understand why some people want deities, theology and doctrine. WE need people like you to use that time time to teach the most effective way of thinking and reasoning. I get that exact reaction when I tell people I'm (for lack of a more detailed description) an atheist; "Noooo, your not." "Yes, I am."
I think I used to believe when I was a young child, because it never occurred to me that grown ups might be wrong, but I can't remember what it was like.
I grew up with very overprotective, insular parents in a religious household. I didn't even know that it was possible to not believe in a deity until I went to college. There, my Psychology 101 professor made a point of professing his atheism, and stressing the importance of skepticism and humility. I was shocked by the concept of atheism, and it took me a while to understand that concept. I gradually became a deist, and then an agnostic atheist. I'm indebted to that professor.
You are a gem, and that's from someone who does believe. We can connect - all of us, I don't think you're going to hell every time I see you because I don't believe that a mind remains the same forever. If I knew you until your deathbed, I wouldn't judge you for not believing. This world has been divided like this since the dawn of time. There is one absolute truth, and a million deceptions.
***** You know so little about me that your statement falls to pieces at a glance. You don't know what I believe, I've not chosen to reveal that to you (as people like you accuse people like me of preaching when we do). You compare yourself to someone I respect, but show nothing but contempt. I didn't say I knew anything, you fool.
somehow I wandered on to this topic tonight ... I grew up in various flavors of a fundamentalist-like Christian environment / churches. After many painful years I've worked myself out of it, but I can tell you that in several ways I miss it. And I think it ultimately comes back to what unites people (sports teams / clubs, etc.) in some universal way -- a purpose towards a common goal. People passionately defend those they love / care about when they can be armed with some solid talking points -- and even when they aren't "armed." I don't think it's that unusual. It just is surrounded by a pretty damn important life view topic :)
I understand your frustration and bafflement. I remember how I use to feel when I was a Christian, so I can see to a degree how people can need and believe in it. But I was also a Child and a Teenager... as an adult, I cant comprehend why. It is mindboggling.
I became an atheist when I was around 14 years old. Before I became an atheist I could not understand how people don't believe in god, now for a change I don't understand how people do belive in god. If you're one, you cannot understand the other.
Imagine a loving father who makes you feel safe, you go to with all your problems, who's existence gives you instant access to comfort in times of stress, disappointment, fear. He also teaches you right/wrong and has great powers. Now include that he's everybody's father in the same ways. And from infancy, you were taught, communally, about this entity and got all emotional comfort from it. Now imagine giving that up after years of depending on it from deepest level of emotional needs.
I think it's SUPER simple. People are so afraid of death, and the complete finalization of death, that they make themselves believe that when they die they will live on in happiness and 'Paradise' forever. Their ego will not allow them to picture life going on without them, so they make it so that their "Soul" will live FOREVER!!!!!!
+Gregg Macey Also, they are taught to be profoundly alone without this deity that they disconnect themselves with everyone in the world. Taught that they are not whole and complete without this imagined daddy figure, it is a complete mind fuck!
The level to which someone is so self-enamored that they can't be considerate of the impressions of others is directly related to their lack of empathy and, I believe, is a strong indication of how little they've fully thought out the position they themselves have. Empathy is the beginning of understanding and I think it could well be argued that the greatest minds were so immensely blessed with empathy that they could, like Einstein, look at reality through the eyes of a particle of light.
Were you ever scared and unsure about anything at all as a kid? Do you remember in any moment your parents stepping between you and something unnerving and protecting you? Do you remember the love and safety you felt? That is a start.. it's like that, only with an invisible father figure in the sky. By surrendering themselves to this imagined protector, they hope to conquer the fear that life itself causes. Their blissful ignorance allows them to feel that.. sometimes.
Anyway, what I was talking about was something else Hawking wrote, about how the universe could have been formed as a pair of opposites, but of a more general kind, like how virtual particles, or so they are called, which are actually pairs of particles, one matter, one antimatter, are formed. So that's what I was referring to. I've also heard that there is something about, yes, gravity, and how this is inextricably linked to matter, though, to be honest, I don't quite understand that bit.
It's one of those things you must experience both sides before "getting it." This is why it's hard for most atheists to debate christians, or any religious person.
I've been trying for more than 15 years now to understand the disconnect I have with atheists, and I feel the same way about it as you express here. Stupidly, it doesn't help that I was also an atheist before I started trying to understand the disconnect. I remember that it used to make sense to me, but I can no longer make sense of it.
@blackmore4 I made a mistake, I was referring to FreedomTao in my two parter to you. So many of you it's hard to keep track, you all sound alike. Thomas
When you are born, you body starts to create memories, and when you die those memories are lost...no embodiment exists after death, your individuality returns to that "great unconcious spirit that desires to exist", that basis of reality, that in turn creates order out of chaos, that causes the mechanics of our physical universe to turn,
I completely agree. I can't understand the mindset of a true believer. I've never been a believer, but when I was younger I wasn't as serious an atheist as I am now. I thought that if all these people agreed about this god thing, there must be something to it, right? I tried praying at tough times in my life, but afterwards I always felt ridiculous. Like it made as much sense to call out to Superman for help. I don't get it.
People usually have this tendency when a close relative dies they cannot accept what has happened. They usually do acknowledge it but they cannot accept it. What this means is that they fight the reality as it is because the current state of things makes them suffer. People usually build their identity around things that surround them. If people lose or are in the threat of losing something that they have identified with they go into a shock. They'd rather resist what is than to accept what is.
As someone who was once religious, I can understand the Christian desire for a god. I can't sympathize intellectually, and to a lesser extent, I don't know why anyone would ever want Yahweh in particular, but I can understand why they would take pleasure thinking about a nebulous, benevolent deity. I think it has something to do with our propensity for fantasy.
I think people fall into belief systems because of a (most likely genetically evolved) tendency for group-mentality. That feeling of being part of a group, agreeing with them completely, and having the same problems and enemies. It makes things incredibly simple and comfortable. It would also encourage group survival and spread your genes.
I know what you mean. I was like that. I was raised a christian, lost my faith at 15. The doubd thoght was always there. I refound my faith at the age of 40. I am not going to tell you my journey from atheism back to being christian again. This lourney is differend for everybody. My only advise to you is that. If you are up for the task choose your tools wisely, and have patience.
Like I said, the distinction between impossible, or irreducible, is sometimes unable to be seen. There's no reason to think that there is a deity. Nor is it, if I know how deity is defined, any way to know, nor or ever. Lastly, that at least one thing exists does not mean it or anything else is eternal, though it's probable that the universe, as everything is expanding now, that space time will continue expanding and there will not be an end, so to speak, which might qualify as "eternal."
Also throw into the mix the strong fear of death, and the fact that if there is no afterlife, there is no hope of reunion with passed loved ones. Also their 'community' of believers, giving up your faith, you no longer belong there among believers. So again, the loss is so great, they don't know who they are without a god.
@peeps1ism Yeah your totally right! "the reality is we will never know the answers to these questions". I think we should Pull the Plug on all science and further inverstigative, data collecting, knowledge endeavoring, technologically progressing, medicinal/biological researching, astronomical, cosmological, evolutional and quantum research. Cause you already figured it out. So thank you for your enlightening comment
@tdfisk So were you born into it, or did you become a believer in adulthood? If the latter, did you 'reason' your way into christendom, or was it a spiritual/emotional process?
It's baffling to me too. I wasn't raised in any religion and it amazes me that theists can't think outside the box to grasp that outside their religion, it's merely something somebody else believes. Like Zeus, Odin and all the others are to them. Yet I'm told I hate it, I'm too proud to submit to it, I choose to ignore the evidence (that has never been presented), etc,
I found that if i answer in a language that Christians ungerstand then they get it. They understand the bible. I tell them that they are chosen (Ephesians 1:4, Romans 11:1-36 and others that I cant remember right now), and I am not chosen.
As a life long atheist, l can tell you it doesn't get any easy. If anything, you may even feel sorry for those that 1, put religion before their own self respect and well being and 2, are not open to any others views except their own.. Time will help you become more tolerable to their views, except them as they are and never compromise your own self worth in doing so. Stay strong and open minded......:)
I can understand where you are coming from. I was forced to go to church when i was young but did not understand what it was all about. As i got older and less spacy I asked to many questions in religion class and the nuns and priest got mad at me. I stopped going to anything religious and when i was in my 40's I figured out that i did not believe in god but like you I still don't get it. It's an interesting place to be when talking to those who believe, isn't it.
if you guys dnt believe in God or Jesus Christ. then it means you guys dnt believe in christmas!? right!? ok questions: if your work gives you a christmas bonus, will you take it then ?!
@tdfisk My comment was addressed to the maker of the video - or at least the long-standing obsession she has about religion and why people believe. I was not defending religion, just providing a personal insight into why some people are attracted to it. Most believers are born into it, but those who convert usually do so after their life has become a mess. Their 'conversion' or whatever is therefore via the heart, not the head. So FVR won't 'get it' using her imagination, as she's trying to do.
Even if every single person in the world apart from yourself vehemently rejected the idea of a god, out of mere reaction, from purely emotional concerns, this wouldn't mean that there was proof.
I like how you've got the dichotomy boiled down to wanting there to be a god and not wanting there to be a god, as if desire governs truth in this world...
Both an athiest and a christian see beauty in the world. Beauty by random and awe-inspiring chance or beauty by divine and wonderful creation art. It doesn't matter how they see the beauty, they just do. And that's how we should connect
@tdfisk 1) I didn’t actually mention “the term” “hell” or Sheol or Hades or Gehenna. But take your pick; the arguments over the exact translation of each word are irrelevant next to the fact that in the Old Testament, out of the 60 odd times an afterlife ‘location’ is mentioned, only 5 passages arguably refer to punishment; with no mention of eternity.
@mechanicmike69 Thank you for continuously showing your true intellect. Lying (about me believing in God), filthy language, personal attacks, it's all right there for everyone to see. Thomas
I feel the same way, but I find this an interesting way to articulate it. My entire family are believers, not in a fundamentalist sense, but they have faith. I can't understand it AT ALL. They don't live their lives going to church, praying, ensuring that they are as sin-free as possible, and yet they still believe in a religion that preaches those teachings. I guess I wonder why they NEED their faith if they live their lives in the same way as I do, and I get along just fine without it.
Also, I don't know why it would be irreducible, the question, though I suppose the distinction between something that is impossible and something that is very difficult is sometimes hard or unable to be seen.
Wow, we are like the complete opposite. I can't imagine there not being a God and how someone can enough faith to believe everything is the result of a random cosmic accident.
5. I defend religion because I defend the unalienable right of people to decide for themselves what they believe. Those who think they know the reality and would force everyone else to believe that thing must be challenged, by force if necessary. This applies to anyone; atheist, religious and political. As Franklin said, "People have the right to be wrong". Ultimately, we are all wrong. No one is smart enough or wise enough to posses all truth. Continued
"Soul Is The Lazy Explanation Of Universe´s Most Amazing Creation."-Albert Einstein "It´s Possible To Understand That The Soul Is An Illusion, But It´s Impossible To Not Get Fooled By It."
If you do not understand all the other things that there is to understand, you can't say something doesn't exist because you didn't understand or you can't get it, because you didn't get a lot of other things too! i know this video is not about this but just to share my thoughts, and i believe and God, but as I wrote above i can't tell there is a god too because i don't get all things too! I Guess we'll just have to believe or not, there is nothing to solve in this subject...
You are extremely cute and extremely clever. I tried too but I simply cannot and sometimes I am a bit envious how religious people can be so free in their believe that someone guards over them without a worry in the world because god will provide.
I share your feelings exactly. When I think about it, or when I'm confronted by people who just don't get how you just don't need to have faith. Just like you said, like the whole concept is alien to their mind, or - the opposite concept to mine. It's really mind boggling trying to understand their need to believe in god at that level, though you sure can find reasons for that believe. Still not the same as trying to really feel it.I guess if we could honestly feel it,we'd stop being atheists.
That's what it's like for 'believers' to contemplate the non-existence of a god. It evacuates a large part of their inner world and incurs a huge loss, greater than losing a parent. Its almost like losing a piece of oneself. This is why its hard for them to give up the delusion even in the face of bare truth. It requires a stronger need for truth, and many ppl need the delusion more than they desire the rational, intellectual truth.
@dhx84 1) The conscience is neither less or more important than the soul. 2) Nothing can nullify our significance. 3) It is unnecessary to validate an obvious reality. 4) That is not science, that is your opinion. Not everything that exists applies to the physical sciences. Thomas
What's so difficult to understand? People believe because hope is more comforting than hopelessness. Clinging to theists beliefs comes easy especially after years of emersion. It's not necessarily a conscious decision. They NEED to believe. Some of us don't. So I just don’t get why you just don’t get it.
@DirtyPoopers If you value truth then start looking for it, you'll find it's more elusive than you ever imagine. I've searched for truth for almost all my 63 years and I may have found a few grains at best. The more I learn the more I realize just how true Socrates was when he said, "True knowledge is in knowing you know nothing". I freely admit that I know almost nothing. However, I do know that people have to learn in their own way and at their own pace, no one should tell them how. Thomas
The thing about it is, that because the principle behind God and the existence of God relies on faith and not necessarily being able to prove in a 'logical' manner(the extent of what the brain of a human can perceive and understand logic to be), it may make it difficult to DEBATE the topic. I am a believer in God, but i understand the approach of Atheists. What persons don't seem to get.. is that the minute that topic is approached to be debated...you're automatically (to be contd)
It's a fundamental cognitive difference. Believers (have been trained to) need BELIEF. Their "cognitive engine" has belief as a cornerstone. They don't know how to think about something that doesn't contain belief....i.e., "certainty." Unbelievers/atheists/skeptics/critical thinkers have straightforward cognitive engines that don't require belief, or which utilize it only provisionally. We are not discombobulated by a lack of absolute certainty.
This holds true in areas with a lower atheist population, however, in other areas there are many who did not experience the peer pressure to believe in something in spite of it being illogical. The number of atheists who never encounter this pressure are increasing in the US, and soon this will be the rule here as well. But right now, it's more common for a US atheist to have religious background. However, the largest atheist population is not US. ;)
@ReduceGHGs You're absolutely right and I don't neglect them. That consideration is shown when I specifically state "anti religion atheists". Both of my sons are atheists. I have no label, which confuses people. I neither believe or disbelieve, it's totally irrelevant to me. I came to that conclusion after careful contemplation of what a real God would be and what is absolute perfection. It is very easy to see these are possibilities, but comprehending them is nearly impossible. Thomas
@cristop5 2. This was profoundly emotional, but evolved into a combination of emotional and reasoning. I contemplated Biblical concepts and implications. I also studied other religions during my travels around the world & I studied ancient religions. I realized that religion has so many different depths and dimensions. To consider religion a singularity was pure ignorance in avoiding the obvious. When I (literally) fell in love with science I used that discipline to objectively observe Continued
@theawesomebeliever To be clear... I did not deny N. Korea's atheism. Nor did I deny the possibility of the "metaphysical" or even a "god". I merely agreed with thirdeagleunraveled's comparison of the dictatorship in N. Korea to the Judao-Christian god's conditions of power . The threat by both leaders (Kim Jong-il and 'god') to either obey or suffer violent consequences is deniable to only the misinformed.
@KeziasPrisonPriest -- I refuted your analogy by demonstrating that the odds for life happening by the laws of nature is impossible. When we start factoring in all the necessary ingredients for life into the equation it becomes impossible by naturalistic forces. The refutation of a naturalistic explanation proves the opposite i.e. that intelligence is required.
Well for me I was an atheist and God had other ideas. I don't have a need to believe and I never desired for there to be a God. I simply found the truth. We really are not that important, we just think we are.
@tdfisk One good option to encourage change would be to help out with the Occupy Wall Street protests. Our governments have had far too much influence by the to 1%. The income and wealth gap widens, health care costs are up, the wealthy pay lower tax rates, our infrastructure lacks investment, and on and on. We need to insist that our policy makers work more in our long-term best interests.
The want to believe in God is an attempt to give the responsibility of life to a being that absolves them of the difficulties of being. I used to be a Mormon. The belief in God is a way to provide a fictional comfort - that comfort coming from a sense of belonging to a being that will favour you with absolvence for the trials we endure while alive where others do not benefit from that blessing. But that's just my opinion.
@dhx84 You're supposed to get married and let nature take its course, unless you're a priest in which case you're supposed to pray to God that you don't get itches you are not allowed to scratch. This is what causes the problem - seeing interfering with children as a spiritual weakness in a priest rather than a criminal act that could damage children. Not all sexual abuse is a great incurable psychic wound, like not everybody who takes heroin twice becomes an addict, but why take the risk?
@tdfisk 1) Why exactly is a "conscience" less amazing or important than a "soul"? 2) Non sequitur. Free will, objective morality and souls can all be illusions without our significance being nullified in any way. 3) Being eternal doesn't necessarily validate your existence. 4) There's no evidence for a soul and it's not a necessary explanation (see above). It is unethical to claim knowledge when what you're doing is inventing explanations for emotional or personal reasons. (That's science.)
Well, regardless of what you've gathered, if I know how a god is defined, there is no way to know whether it exists, whatever you believe. I was merely suggesting that that other user who said it was probably true that everything came from nothing, may have simply been referencing something Hawking wrote, which is now fairly well known, and that suggestion isn't about something from nothing.
@realbojay Debating with a Christian is like fighting Monty Python's Black Knight. They can't admit that they have been defeated or embarrassed or found wanting in any way. They come back with the limpest lines and then run around doing a victory dance, like the ever so humble and modest Mr Swordoftheinquisition - whose lines have all the intellectual subtlety of claiming that the one who smelt it dealt it.
@tdfisk "Why does it matter. Why do you want to know?" i'm curious as to who you were fighting against. you claimed that you killed "my comrades" in the war that you fought in. i want to know who you're trying to associate me with.
its not alien to my mind, i can't believe we are here just because we happen to be.. we are here for a purpose, and we were made intricately by one power...all of us humans, animals, plants, planets, universe... i can't believe we happened to live here by accident... and i can't believe bad people will not get karma chasing them....there is an intricate balance in this world.. it has to be made by one power.. that decides and oversees everything and makes it seem like everyday normal life to us.
Well, there is what Stephen Hawking wrote in "a brief history of time," or w/e. That the universe could have come from something like a virtual particle appearence. Virtual particles are a name for an effect, wherein a particle pair will appear for a split second (or less), and then disappear. Not much is known about them, but apparently they're responsible for some of the fundemantal forces, magnetism, electromagnetic, etc. You might say that these virtual particles come from "nothing."
Good to see you again. They really don't get it either; they just think they do. The Abrahamic god is logically impossible. As for the want to believe, it has a lot to do with the harshness of reality. The death of a loved one and the fear of dying are powerful motivators in this regard.
When I was a christian, I wanted god to be true because I saw injustice that I was powerless towards, and I wanted there to be a higher power that I could pray to and that could help. When I prayed I felt like I was helping people. However I am now an atheist, and when I see injustice I realise that wishful thinking wont help anything :(
You are a gem. . .
I think that the belief in god comes from extreme fear of death. My mother was a borderline agnostic until she watched her mother die. Then she converted to extremism almost overnight.
But, her face though. I have honestly NEVER come across a more attractive face, the symmetry is baffling.
I now sound like a jeffery dahmer.
pretty much. maybe dial back the creepy factor 4 clicks or so eh
Joe Cas
I've run out of pot today for the first time in a few months and i've got a week off school. I'm sure you can relate........or not. It's cool.
mastermo141 I used to smoke pot. Not in many years, I've got bills and shit
Joe Cas
I'm no stranger to the struggle myself.
I was raised a fundamental Christian, but I love you and your honesty
ah...you're so cute,..
Yeah she’s adorable!!😂❤️
Belief in a deity is really just an extension of primitive tribalism wherein a leader is worshiped as a savior/provider. The human brain was hardwired to accept that sort of adoration and loyalty as beneficial to survival and the cerebral circuitry of most people retains at least vestigial elements of that mindset. Those of us who find it absurd and simply cannot indulge in such beliefs are simply not hard-wired in the same way. I like to think of us as being the next step in evolution.
Pretty Atheist!
Good stuff.
I Like you.
Please don't try and understand why some people want deities, theology and doctrine. WE need people like you to use that time time to teach the most effective way of thinking and reasoning. I get that exact reaction when I tell people I'm (for lack of a more detailed description) an atheist; "Noooo, your not."
"Yes, I am."
I think I used to believe when I was a young child, because it never occurred to me that grown ups might be wrong, but I can't remember what it was like.
I grew up with very overprotective, insular parents in a religious household. I didn't even know that it was possible to not believe in a deity until I went to college. There, my Psychology 101 professor made a point of professing his atheism, and stressing the importance of skepticism and humility. I was shocked by the concept of atheism, and it took me a while to understand that concept. I gradually became a deist, and then an agnostic atheist. I'm indebted to that professor.
Amusingly I have the same problems. Just got used to that.
You have articulated so brilliantly what i have felt for so long... thank you
You have spoken my words almost to the word with what I tell people. Keep up your awesome videos!
You are a gem, and that's from someone who does believe. We can connect - all of us, I don't think you're going to hell every time I see you because I don't believe that a mind remains the same forever. If I knew you until your deathbed, I wouldn't judge you for not believing. This world has been divided like this since the dawn of time. There is one absolute truth, and a million deceptions.
*****
You know so little about me that your statement falls to pieces at a glance. You don't know what I believe, I've not chosen to reveal that to you (as people like you accuse people like me of preaching when we do). You compare yourself to someone I respect, but show nothing but contempt. I didn't say I knew anything, you fool.
***** There IS an ultimate truth. Did I say I knew it? Presumptuous fool. You know nothing.
somehow I wandered on to this topic tonight ... I grew up in various flavors of a fundamentalist-like Christian environment / churches. After many painful years I've worked myself out of it, but I can tell you that in several ways I miss it. And I think it ultimately comes back to what unites people (sports teams / clubs, etc.) in some universal way -- a purpose towards a common goal. People passionately defend those they love / care about when they can be armed with some solid talking points -- and even when they aren't "armed." I don't think it's that unusual. It just is surrounded by a pretty damn important life view topic :)
I understand your frustration and bafflement. I remember how I use to feel when I was a Christian, so I can see to a degree how people can need and believe in it. But I was also a Child and a Teenager... as an adult, I cant comprehend why. It is mindboggling.
I became an atheist when I was around 14 years old. Before I became an atheist I could not understand how people don't believe in god, now for a change I don't understand how people do belive in god. If you're one, you cannot understand the other.
Imagine a loving father who makes you feel safe, you go to with all your problems, who's existence gives you instant access to comfort in times of stress, disappointment, fear. He also teaches you right/wrong and has great powers. Now include that he's everybody's father in the same ways. And from infancy, you were taught, communally, about this entity and got all emotional comfort from it. Now imagine giving that up after years of depending on it from deepest level of emotional needs.
I think it's SUPER simple. People are so afraid of death, and the complete finalization of death, that they make themselves believe that when they die they will live on in happiness and 'Paradise' forever. Their ego will not allow them to picture life going on without them, so they make it so that their "Soul" will live FOREVER!!!!!!
+Gregg Macey Also, they are taught to be profoundly alone without this deity that they disconnect themselves with everyone in the world. Taught that they are not whole and complete without this imagined daddy figure, it is a complete mind fuck!
Good point. Unfortunately many people prefer to ignore contradictions in religion. I'm glad there are also people who actually listen to common sense.
I know EXACTLY how you feel. Just recently have come to this realisation that I really, just, quite simply, 'do not get it'.
the must be a god cause there was adam and eve, and since there is a god creation must be true. what more illogical loops would anyone need?
The level to which someone is so self-enamored that they can't be considerate of the impressions of others is directly related to their lack of empathy and, I believe, is a strong indication of how little they've fully thought out the position they themselves have. Empathy is the beginning of understanding and I think it could well be argued that the greatest minds were so immensely blessed with empathy that they could, like Einstein, look at reality through the eyes of a particle of light.
Were you ever scared and unsure about anything at all as a kid? Do you remember in any moment your parents stepping between you and something unnerving and protecting you? Do you remember the love and safety you felt? That is a start.. it's like that, only with an invisible father figure in the sky. By surrendering themselves to this imagined protector, they hope to conquer the fear that life itself causes. Their blissful ignorance allows them to feel that.. sometimes.
Anyway, what I was talking about was something else Hawking wrote, about how the universe could have been formed as a pair of opposites, but of a more general kind, like how virtual particles, or so they are called, which are actually pairs of particles, one matter, one antimatter, are formed. So that's what I was referring to.
I've also heard that there is something about, yes, gravity, and how this is inextricably linked to matter, though, to be honest, I don't quite understand that bit.
@Magicwillnz What kind of materialism are you referring to?
Thomas
It's one of those things you must experience both sides before "getting it." This is why it's hard for most atheists to debate christians, or any religious person.
@PlanetBongoSan -- can define what abiogenesis is?
I've been trying for more than 15 years now to understand the disconnect I have with atheists, and I feel the same way about it as you express here. Stupidly, it doesn't help that I was also an atheist before I started trying to understand the disconnect. I remember that it used to make sense to me, but I can no longer make sense of it.
@blackmore4 I made a mistake, I was referring to FreedomTao in my two parter to you. So many of you it's hard to keep track, you all sound alike.
Thomas
When you are born, you body starts to create memories,
and when you die those memories are lost...no embodiment
exists after death, your individuality returns to that
"great unconcious spirit that desires to exist", that basis of reality,
that in turn creates order out of chaos, that causes the mechanics of our physical
universe to turn,
I completely agree. I can't understand the mindset of a true believer. I've never been a believer, but when I was younger I wasn't as serious an atheist as I am now. I thought that if all these people agreed about this god thing, there must be something to it, right? I tried praying at tough times in my life, but afterwards I always felt ridiculous. Like it made as much sense to call out to Superman for help. I don't get it.
@tdfisk a fifth time, which war did you fight in?
People usually have this tendency when a close relative dies they cannot accept what has happened. They usually do acknowledge it but they cannot accept it. What this means is that they fight the reality as it is because the current state of things makes them suffer. People usually build their identity around things that surround them. If people lose or are in the threat of losing something that they have identified with they go into a shock. They'd rather resist what is than to accept what is.
As someone who was once religious, I can understand the Christian desire for a god. I can't sympathize intellectually, and to a lesser extent, I don't know why anyone would ever want Yahweh in particular, but I can understand why they would take pleasure thinking about a nebulous, benevolent deity. I think it has something to do with our propensity for fantasy.
I think people fall into belief systems because of a (most likely genetically evolved) tendency for group-mentality. That feeling of being part of a group, agreeing with them completely, and having the same problems and enemies. It makes things incredibly simple and comfortable. It would also encourage group survival and spread your genes.
I know what you mean. I was like that. I was raised a christian, lost my faith at 15. The doubd thoght was always there. I refound my faith at the age of 40. I am not going to tell you my journey from atheism back to being christian again. This lourney is differend for everybody. My only advise to you is that. If you are up for the task choose your tools wisely, and have patience.
Something that was inevitable shouldn't be depicted as an accident.
Like I said, the distinction between impossible, or irreducible, is sometimes unable to be seen.
There's no reason to think that there is a deity. Nor is it, if I know how deity is defined, any way to know, nor or ever.
Lastly, that at least one thing exists does not mean it or anything else is eternal, though it's probable that the universe, as everything is expanding now, that space time will continue expanding and there will not be an end, so to speak, which might qualify as "eternal."
Also throw into the mix the strong fear of death, and the fact that if there is no afterlife, there is no hope of reunion with passed loved ones. Also their 'community' of believers, giving up your faith, you no longer belong there among believers. So again, the loss is so great, they don't know who they are without a god.
@peeps1ism Yeah your totally right! "the reality is we will never know the answers to these questions". I think we should Pull the Plug on all science and further inverstigative, data collecting, knowledge endeavoring, technologically progressing, medicinal/biological researching, astronomical, cosmological, evolutional and quantum research. Cause you already figured it out. So thank you for your enlightening comment
@tdfisk So were you born into it, or did you become a believer in adulthood? If the latter, did you 'reason' your way into christendom, or was it a spiritual/emotional process?
It's baffling to me too. I wasn't raised in any religion and it amazes me that theists can't think outside the box to grasp that outside their religion, it's merely something somebody else believes. Like Zeus, Odin and all the others are to them. Yet I'm told I hate it, I'm too proud to submit to it, I choose to ignore the evidence (that has never been presented), etc,
I haven't favorited any video on months, but this is the best video I have ever seen (in the last several months). I am gladly favoriting it.
Also, if the problem were, somehow, found to be irreducible, this would also not mean there was a deity.
It's almost not possible, but among many things that nature taught us, one of them is that you always have to add this "almost" to the "not possible".
I found that if i answer in a language that Christians ungerstand then they get it. They understand the bible. I tell them that they are chosen (Ephesians 1:4, Romans 11:1-36 and others that I cant remember right now), and I am not chosen.
As a life long atheist, l can tell you it doesn't get any easy. If anything, you may even feel sorry for those that 1, put religion before their own self respect and well being and 2, are not open to any others views except their own.. Time will help you become more tolerable to their views, except them as they are and never compromise your own self worth in doing so.
Stay strong and open minded......:)
i dont get it too i cant believe in fairy tales
I can understand where you are coming from. I was forced to go to church when i was young but did not understand what it was all about. As i got older and less spacy I asked to many questions in religion class and the nuns and priest got mad at me. I stopped going to anything religious and when i was in my 40's I figured out that i did not believe in god but like you I still don't get it. It's an interesting place to be when talking to those who believe, isn't it.
if you guys dnt believe in God or Jesus Christ. then it means you guys dnt believe in christmas!? right!? ok questions: if your work gives you a christmas bonus, will you take it then ?!
@tdfisk My comment was addressed to the maker of the video - or at least the long-standing obsession she has about religion and why people believe. I was not defending religion, just providing a personal insight into why some people are attracted to it. Most believers are born into it, but those who convert usually do so after their life has become a mess. Their 'conversion' or whatever is therefore via the heart, not the head. So FVR won't 'get it' using her imagination, as she's trying to do.
I miss your show.
Even if every single person in the world apart from yourself vehemently rejected the idea of a god, out of mere reaction, from purely emotional concerns, this wouldn't mean that there was proof.
I like how you've got the dichotomy boiled down to wanting there to be a god and not wanting there to be a god, as if desire governs truth in this world...
Both an athiest and a christian see beauty in the world. Beauty by random and awe-inspiring chance or beauty by divine and wonderful creation art. It doesn't matter how they see the beauty, they just do. And that's how we should connect
@tdfisk 1) I didn’t actually mention “the term” “hell” or Sheol or Hades or Gehenna. But take your pick; the arguments over the exact translation of each word are irrelevant next to the fact that in the Old Testament, out of the 60 odd times an afterlife ‘location’ is mentioned, only 5 passages arguably refer to punishment; with no mention of eternity.
@mechanicmike69 Thank you for continuously showing your true intellect. Lying (about me believing in God), filthy language, personal attacks, it's all right there for everyone to see.
Thomas
I feel the same way, but I find this an interesting way to articulate it. My entire family are believers, not in a fundamentalist sense, but they have faith. I can't understand it AT ALL. They don't live their lives going to church, praying, ensuring that they are as sin-free as possible, and yet they still believe in a religion that preaches those teachings. I guess I wonder why they NEED their faith if they live their lives in the same way as I do, and I get along just fine without it.
Also, I don't know why it would be irreducible, the question, though I suppose the distinction between something that is impossible and something that is very difficult is sometimes hard or unable to be seen.
Just wondering what ur education is.
good video!! I know theists who are shocked at my generations lack of faith based beliefs too
Wow, we are like the complete opposite. I can't imagine there not being a God and how someone can enough faith to believe everything is the result of a random cosmic accident.
5. I defend religion because I defend the unalienable right of people to decide for themselves what they believe. Those who think they know the reality and would force everyone else to believe that thing must be challenged, by force if necessary. This applies to anyone; atheist, religious and political. As Franklin said, "People have the right to be wrong". Ultimately, we are all wrong. No one is smart enough or wise enough to posses all truth. Continued
"Soul Is The Lazy Explanation Of Universe´s Most Amazing Creation."-Albert Einstein
"It´s Possible To Understand That The Soul Is An Illusion, But It´s Impossible To Not Get Fooled By It."
I sense a lot of emotional agony in this video.
If you do not understand all the other things that there is to understand, you can't say something doesn't exist because you didn't understand or you can't get it, because you didn't get a lot of other things too! i know this video is not about this but just to share my thoughts, and i believe and God, but as I wrote above i can't tell there is a god too because i don't get all things too! I Guess we'll just have to believe or not, there is nothing to solve in this subject...
You are extremely cute and extremely clever.
I tried too but I simply cannot and sometimes I am a bit envious how religious people can be so free in their believe that someone guards over them without a worry in the world because god will provide.
I share your feelings exactly. When I think about it, or when I'm confronted by people who just don't get how you just don't need to have faith. Just like you said, like the whole concept is alien to their mind, or - the opposite concept to mine.
It's really mind boggling trying to understand their need to believe in god at that level, though you sure can find reasons for that believe. Still not the same as trying to really feel it.I guess if we could honestly feel it,we'd stop being atheists.
@FairPhilip I do this because I enjoy it. Your enjoyment or otherwise is of no concern to me. If you don't like it don't watch.
That's what it's like for 'believers' to contemplate the non-existence of a god. It evacuates a large part of their inner world and incurs a huge loss, greater than losing a parent. Its almost like losing a piece of oneself. This is why its hard for them to give up the delusion even in the face of bare truth. It requires a stronger need for truth, and many ppl need the delusion more than they desire the rational, intellectual truth.
nice, very nice. well done lady. I get it, and I don't get it either
Just to give credit, I think it was Richard Dawkins who proposed this hypothesis
@dhx84 1) The conscience is neither less or more important than the soul.
2) Nothing can nullify our significance.
3) It is unnecessary to validate an obvious reality.
4) That is not science, that is your opinion. Not everything that exists applies to the physical sciences.
Thomas
Can you imagine life without love? No right, there would be no life. Now think about that for a while.
What's so difficult to understand? People believe because hope is more comforting than hopelessness. Clinging to theists beliefs comes easy especially after years of emersion. It's not necessarily a conscious decision. They NEED to believe. Some of us don't.
So I just don’t get why you just don’t get it.
@DirtyPoopers If you value truth then start looking for it, you'll find it's more elusive than you ever imagine. I've searched for truth for almost all my 63 years and I may have found a few grains at best. The more I learn the more I realize just how true Socrates was when he said, "True knowledge is in knowing you know nothing". I freely admit that I know almost nothing. However, I do know that people have to learn in their own way and at their own pace, no one should tell them how.
Thomas
The thing about it is, that because the principle behind God and the existence of God relies on faith and not necessarily being able to prove in a 'logical' manner(the extent of what the brain of a human can perceive and understand logic to be), it may make it difficult to DEBATE the topic. I am a believer in God, but i understand the approach of Atheists. What persons don't seem to get.. is that the minute that topic is approached to be debated...you're automatically (to be contd)
It's a fundamental cognitive difference.
Believers (have been trained to) need BELIEF. Their "cognitive engine" has belief as a cornerstone. They don't know how to think about something that doesn't contain belief....i.e., "certainty."
Unbelievers/atheists/skeptics/critical thinkers have straightforward cognitive engines that don't require belief, or which utilize it only provisionally. We are not discombobulated by a lack of absolute certainty.
This holds true in areas with a lower atheist population, however, in other areas there are many who did not experience the peer pressure to believe in something in spite of it being illogical. The number of atheists who never encounter this pressure are increasing in the US, and soon this will be the rule here as well. But right now, it's more common for a US atheist to have religious background. However, the largest atheist population is not US. ;)
@ReduceGHGs You're absolutely right and I don't neglect them. That consideration is shown when I specifically state "anti religion atheists". Both of my sons are atheists. I have no label, which confuses people. I neither believe or disbelieve, it's totally irrelevant to me. I came to that conclusion after careful contemplation of what a real God would be and what is absolute perfection. It is very easy to see these are possibilities, but comprehending them is nearly impossible.
Thomas
You have free website hosting on my web server for as long as you have a domain registered and you want it. Please keep up the awesome stuff.
I'm an atheist but I don't think everything is the result of a random cosmic accident.
this is from the outsiders. do you see the stars from your house? i can see the same
stars from my house.
@cristop5 2. This was profoundly emotional, but evolved into a combination of emotional and reasoning. I contemplated Biblical concepts and implications. I also studied other religions during my travels around the world & I studied ancient religions. I realized that religion has so many different depths and dimensions. To consider religion a singularity was pure ignorance in avoiding the obvious. When I (literally) fell in love with science I used that discipline to objectively observe Continued
@theawesomebeliever To be clear... I did not deny N. Korea's atheism. Nor did I deny the possibility of the "metaphysical" or even a "god". I merely agreed with thirdeagleunraveled's comparison of the dictatorship in N. Korea to the Judao-Christian god's conditions of power . The threat by both leaders (Kim Jong-il and 'god') to either obey or suffer violent consequences is deniable to only the misinformed.
@KeziasPrisonPriest -- I refuted your analogy by demonstrating that the odds for life happening by the laws of nature is impossible. When we start factoring in all the necessary ingredients for life into the equation it becomes impossible by naturalistic forces. The refutation of a naturalistic explanation proves the opposite i.e. that intelligence is required.
Well for me I was an atheist and God had other ideas. I don't have a need to believe and I never desired for there to be a God. I simply found the truth. We really are not that important, we just think we are.
@tdfisk One good option to encourage change would be to help out with the Occupy Wall Street protests. Our governments have had far too much influence by the to 1%. The income and wealth gap widens, health care costs are up, the wealthy pay lower tax rates, our infrastructure lacks investment, and on and on. We need to insist that our policy makers work more in our long-term best interests.
The want to believe in God is an attempt to give the responsibility of life to a being that absolves them of the difficulties of being. I used to be a Mormon. The belief in God is a way to provide a fictional comfort - that comfort coming from a sense of belonging to a being that will favour you with absolvence for the trials we endure while alive where others do not benefit from that blessing. But that's just my opinion.
The aesthetics of that face make vision worth while. 0:08. UGHH i could just die. FLAWLESS !
@dhx84 You're supposed to get married and let nature take its course, unless you're a priest in which case you're supposed to pray to God that you don't get itches you are not allowed to scratch. This is what causes the problem - seeing interfering with children as a spiritual weakness in a priest rather than a criminal act that could damage children. Not all sexual abuse is a great incurable psychic wound, like not everybody who takes heroin twice becomes an addict, but why take the risk?
@tdfisk
1) Why exactly is a "conscience" less amazing or important than a "soul"?
2) Non sequitur. Free will, objective morality and souls can all be illusions without our significance being nullified in any way.
3) Being eternal doesn't necessarily validate your existence.
4) There's no evidence for a soul and it's not a necessary explanation (see above). It is unethical to claim knowledge when what you're doing is inventing explanations for emotional or personal reasons. (That's science.)
do you know who Jesus Christ is
Well, regardless of what you've gathered, if I know how a god is defined, there is no way to know whether it exists, whatever you believe.
I was merely suggesting that that other user who said it was probably true that everything came from nothing, may have simply been referencing something Hawking wrote, which is now fairly well known, and that suggestion isn't about something from nothing.
@realbojay Debating with a Christian is like fighting Monty Python's Black Knight. They can't admit that they have been defeated or embarrassed or found wanting in any way.
They come back with the limpest lines and then run around doing a victory dance, like the ever so humble and modest Mr Swordoftheinquisition - whose lines have all the intellectual subtlety of claiming that the one who smelt it dealt it.
@tdfisk "Why does it matter. Why do you want to know?"
i'm curious as to who you were fighting against. you claimed that you killed "my comrades" in the war that you fought in. i want to know who you're trying to associate me with.
There is nothing to "get" in the first place.... The fact that you don't "get it" means that you are not delusional. Be happy with that state of mind.
its not alien to my mind, i can't believe we are here just because we happen to be.. we are here for a purpose, and we were made intricately by one power...all of us humans, animals, plants, planets, universe... i can't believe we happened to live here by accident... and i can't believe bad people will not get karma chasing them....there is an intricate balance in this world.. it has to be made by one power.. that decides and oversees everything and makes it seem like everyday normal life to us.
Well, there is what Stephen Hawking wrote in "a brief history of time," or w/e. That the universe could have come from something like a virtual particle appearence.
Virtual particles are a name for an effect, wherein a particle pair will appear for a split second (or less), and then disappear. Not much is known about them, but apparently they're responsible for some of the fundemantal forces, magnetism, electromagnetic, etc.
You might say that these virtual particles come from "nothing."