Whenever I listen to or read Jaron Lanier, I always think of the quote "In every work of genius we recognise our own rejected thoughts: they come back to us with a certain alienated majesty." He articulates the thoughts I wish I could articulate. He's my hero.
Jaron is one of my all time favorite human beings....I could listen to him endlessly. He's truly one of a kind. Thank you so much for this conversation....yes, yes, please have Part 2-!!
Have you ever worked with him or met him? Unfortunately he's one of the most egotistical, out of touch, self absorbed, rude people that I've ever had to deal with in my life.
Hard to believe given how GIVING Jaron is in his conversation. Many brilliant innovators and thinkers in technology can be a bit difficult. Kinda goes with the territory. Oppenheimer, Tesla and Einstein were good hearted people with humanitarian well-being down deep. I may be naive, admittedly.
@@Sentient_Goose So this bozo is one of the reasons that Windows is so intensely annoying, so absolutely irritating and that most of THE most annoying stuff cannot be uninstalled? Ah well, that's The Spectrum for you... {:o:O:}
"Empathy and altruism", aka just simping for the current human form. He wants to limit AI to current human sensory capacity. He will probably still be playing the violin as AI augments and evolves humans way beyond what we understand and experience now.
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 01:27 🎙️ *Introduction to the conversation on AI, AR, VR, and related topics* - Introduction of Jaron Lanier, his background, and credentials, - Brief discussion on the host's past interaction with Jaron Lanier. 03:06 🎶 *Jaron Lanier's fascination with musical instruments* - Jaron Lanier's childhood connection to music through his mother, a Holocaust survivor, - The significance of music as a continuing connection to his mother, - Jaron's extensive collection and passion for learning various musical instruments. 05:16 🎵 *Collaboration in music with Philip Glass and insights into their relationship* - Jaron Lanier's collaboration with Philip Glass in music production, - Reflections on the collaboration and the significance of their work together. 06:12 🔬 *Historical figures in artificial intelligence and their contributions* - Overview of historical figures in AI, including Ada Lovelace, E.M. Forster, Alan Turing, and Norbert Wiener, - Discussion on their contributions and perspectives on artificial intelligence. 15:03 🤖 *Evolution of the term "artificial intelligence" and the influence of Norbert Wiener* - The meeting at Dartmouth in 1958 where the term "artificial intelligence" was coined, - Norbert Wiener's influence and his concept of cybernetics, - Reflections on Wiener's concerns about the societal implications of treating people like computers. 16:10 🌐 *Impact of recent developments in AI, like ChatGPT, and its interpretation* - Reflections on recent developments in AI, such as ChatGPT, - Perspective on large language models as collaborations between individuals rather than entities, - Discussion on the role and perception of AI in society and its practical applications. 19:31 🧠 *Understanding the inner workings of large language models* - Overview of how large language models work, using the example of identifying cats and dogs, - Introduction to deep learning and its role in complex pattern recognition tasks, - Preview of a forthcoming explanation of the inner workings of large language models. 21:31 🧠 *Training artificial intelligence models using gradient descent.* - Training involves providing known data (e.g., images of cats and dogs) and adjusting weights based on value. - Gradient descent is employed to gradually refine the model's performance by adjusting the weights. - The process involves assigning higher value to successful outputs and reducing value for less successful ones. 22:40 📚 *Utilizing adjacency in training large language models.* - Training involves analyzing the entire internet, assuming adjacency between words and images is meaningful. - Adjacency helps in tagging and training the model on a wide range of data. - Training requires significant computational resources and time, with each cycle taking about a year. 24:13 🖼️ *Generating images using generative AI models and blending techniques.* - Generative AI models combine random pixels and adjust them based on multiple prompts and constraints. - Blending multiple prompts allows for the creation of complex and unique outputs. - The model iteratively refines the output until it satisfies all given prompts and constraints. 26:28 🤔 *Comparing artificial intelligence pattern recognition with human intelligence.* - Artificial intelligence systems recognize patterns of patterns of patterns to generate outputs. - Differences exist between AI pattern recognition and human intelligence, including learning efficiency and training methodologies. - Understanding the distinctions aids in assessing AI capabilities and limitations. 29:40 🤖 *Integrating symbolic AI and statistical AI approaches.* - Efforts to combine symbolic AI (model-based) and statistical AI (data-driven) approaches are ongoing. - Combining these approaches has shown promising results in specific applications, such as geometry problem-solving. - Challenges remain in generalizing these hybrid approaches across various domains. 32:13 ⚠️ *Addressing concerns and responsibilities regarding AI development.* - The focus should be on human responsibility in utilizing AI technologies to mitigate potential risks. - Guardrails and ethical considerations are crucial to prevent misuse of AI systems. - Emphasizing human responsibility over dystopian narratives fosters a more constructive approach to AI development. 40:59 🤖 *Challenges of AI Implementation in Society* - Discussion on the performance of AI systems and the underlying factors influencing their effectiveness. - Concerns about the potential societal impact of AI advancements, including job displacement. - Critique of the universal basic income solution and the potential for abuse by malicious actors. 41:56 🏭 *Alternative Economic Models for AI Integration* - Proposal for a model where individuals contributing to AI development are compensated through royalties or dividends. - Advocacy for maintaining economic structures while incorporating AI advancements. - Discussion on the potential challenges and benefits of implementing such a model. 44:14 🔬 *Applying Gradient Descent Concepts to Societal Systems* - Analogizing the need to prevent virality in AI training with societal systems. - Emphasizing the importance of avoiding dominance by any one component in societal dynamics. - Reflecting on the potential benefits of applying these principles to create a healthier societal framework. 46:03 💡 *Impact of AI on Business Models and Advertising* - Speculation on how AI advancements may prompt shifts in business models, particularly in advertising. - Discussion on the potential transformation of advertising into paid influence channels rather than traditional models. - Consideration of AI-driven alternatives to traditional advertising methods. 49:05 🎶 *Integrating AI with Music and Instrumental Expression* - Exploration of the role of musical instruments as advanced user interfaces. - Advocacy for making computers more expressive and akin to musical instruments. - Reflections on the potential for computers to learn from the sophistication of traditional instruments. 51:36 🚀 *Evolution of Virtual Reality (VR) Technology* - Historical perspective on the development of VR technology, tracing back to early experiments in the 1990s. - Discussion on the challenges of maintaining VR applications over time due to technological advancements. - Proposal for using generative AI to address the maintenance challenges and enable spontaneous world creation in VR environments. 00:59:55 🌌 *VR's Impact on Understanding Philosophical Conundra* - VR shapes understanding of key philosophical ideas and issues, - Experiencing virtual worlds sheds new light on old problems. 01:00:24 🛠️ *VR's Utility and Artistic Expression* - VR demonstrates extreme utility in industrial applications like design and training, - It fosters a separate ecosystem for artistic expression and interpretation, - Artistic VR experiences offer subjective interpretations based on pre-existing philosophies. 01:02:13 🎨 *Exploring Consciousness and Dualism in VR* - VR experiences can evoke philosophical discussions about consciousness and dualism, - The perception of virtual reality is influenced by the individual's pre-existing philosophy, - VR can serve as a tool to explore consciousness and different philosophical perspectives. 01:04:22 🤔 *Philosophical Impact of Virtual Reality* - Virtual reality experiences can lead to philosophical shifts and discussions, - Immersive VR scenarios enable individuals to empathize with different perspectives, - Philosophical exploration in VR offers unique opportunities for understanding consciousness and subjective experiences. Made with HARPA AI
This is one of the most fascinating interviews I have ever watched. What an extraordinary, perceptive man. Thanks Brian...please, please interview him again! ❤
I've looked up so many fuckin videos about Tech CEO's and smart people talking about AI and so far Jaron is the only guy I really trust. I like that Sam guy too but most people guard their responses for fear of hurting the stock of their company but Jaron seems very honest and I love his fashion sense.
Most people hate Sam if you pay attention to the comments in any of his interviews. Not that I agree with the sentiment, but people absolutely do not trust him to usher in the next generation of AI.
Jaron’s Gadgets book is a must read. Bringing some clarity to the laymen about AI fears is a must. Perceiving it through fearmongers accomplishes little but power to those that profess it. Thx Brian & guest
And the "fearmongers" would say perceiving it through the eyes of someone like yourself isn't helpful. I think you're both right- we need someone who isn't already invested one way or the other, and we need to understand that it has different impacts on different industries and individuals- things most ppl have never thought about. Ppl thought the worry would be sky net and the computers taking over, but in reality, it's mass unemployment and some serious invasions of privacy that are the real concerns, along with a host of other issues like this.
This is one of the most fascinating interviews I have ever watched. What an extraordinary, perceptive man. Thanks Brian...please, please interview him again!
Dr. Greene is an inspiration to many and especially myself. I have watched him for years and I'm so blessed to be a part of this generation in scientific discovery. It makes me want to go back to school! At 33, it baffles me!
@@justinava1675 i actually like Weinstein but I do understand that you have to have some background on the subject matter. Weinstein just needs to pause sometimes and explain the concept. Even if you understand the concept, not everyone knows the terminology. Feinman described it best. It's better to understand the concept and not the taxonomy. But to be honest, you are not going to follow the subject, unless you have interest in the subject.
Both Jaron and Dr Green show the best type of scientist - those with a love of their subject and complete humility. A fascinating conversation and can't wait for the one on consciousness!
25:00~ "It constructs a virtual tower for the combination in order to be the feedback to generate this new image..." Kant's reflecting judgment--very impressive. It's what we call aesthetic imagination.
I'll read or listen to anything from Jaron Lanier, my wife isn't that interested in the topic(s) but she describes Jaron Lanier's laugh as "the giggle of sheer joy". If she's in the next room and she hears it on something I'm listening to, she'll come in and ask me to skip back so she can hear it again.
Kudos to Jaron Lanier for his courage in publicly embracing dualism, a philosophical stance often overlooked or dismissed in today's technological discourse.
I have watched pretty much everything on this channel I am so addicted to this channel that i just put in on everytime sometimes I sleep listening to general theory of relativity and wake up to quantum entanglement discussions.
Dr greene I adore you today!! I do believe the Jaron is a bit too idealistic and is disregarding the interest of the corporate world, and the manipulation and security risk of what this will manifest. Anyways Brian 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 massive applause, and Jaron thank you for sharing your sincerest perspective
I appreciate Jaron Lanier's perspective. I enjoyed the meeting of their perspectives in this conversation. how subjective and objective (mix/ratio/import etc.) changes as any field evolves. an interesting and enjoyable view, Thanks!
Thankyou. This left me so hyped, cant wait for part two, whould like to know more about his dualistic way of viewing the world and how that connects to vr experiences.
He just gives the best vibes. He seems so empathetic and full of joy and curiosity. Also very obviously off the charts intelligent as well. I love hearing him.
Brian Greene in English and Etienne Klein in French. These are the two scientists whom I feel have nailed the art of talking about complex scientific and philosophical subjects to the general public.
Jaron Lanier, I remember those VPL days. Worked with two people who were next door neighbors with Jaron and worked at VPL. I remember when Jaron popped next door and gave us an “elevator talk” about his VPL ideas. Watched VPL takeoff. The people I worked with gave me insider tours of VPL, loved the “VPL” language concepts. Got to play with their system driven by a SGI Reality Engine which is interesting to compare it to Apple’s latest offering. Watched VPL fade to black. Symbolic AI (à la McCarthy et al) probably put machine learning back 20 plus years when DARPA chose symbolic reasoning vs neural nets in the 1960s! Bernard Widrow at Stanford was at the forefront of neural networks (machine learning) in the early 1960s but lost his funding from DARPA to symbolic reasoning. I worked with Widrow in the 80s and he talked about his adaptive “network” ideas. He was so “traumatized” by the battle between the two camps (symbolic vs neural net) that he literally dissuaded possible PhD students from entering the field that would become machine learning as there was no funding. Basically the symbolic reasoning camp had to fail first by lack of results before machine learning could move forward.
Very comprehensive and focused discussion, and with just enough trivia to keep things interesting. Jaron clearly knows his stuff. Also, I truly love the idea of making computers more like musical instruments!
It's a good talk about general global principles but the problem with a lot of these recent talks is that the technology is advancing so quickly that what they are talking about is 50% misconception about how the AI is making inferences
Dr. Green has helped lead the field of theoretical physics down an unrewarding, career-ending, soul-sucking rabbit hole called "String Theory" without even a single acknowledgement of its colossal failure to predict a single new aspect of particle physics, or its chilling effect on other avenues of competing exploration during the past 20 years. I'm not exactly onboard with his style, but it would be much more positively received if he came clear on the issues with the field, what went wrong, and how we can try to prevent this from happening again.
There was once no iota of evidence suggesting India could be reached by sailing out West from Spain. Should that have deterred the curiosity of humankind at the time to dare, innovate and eventually spur Columbus to take a "leap of faith". You see, we realized greater profundities of our world by serendipitously discovering the Americas. It quite literally changed us for the better (arguably). So no, we ought to encourage these often far-fetched seemingly futile endeavours - in every field I might add. Doing so is part of the human spirit and the just the journey yeilds many answers to our condition.
string theory resonates with an attempt to simplify some logical aspects of a theory as vast as quantum theory is. one must be humbled to just admire any attempt .
Thank you for consulting... him. Mr. Lanier is literally mind-blowing. He is so generous with regard to sharing knowledge, and even resultant sidebar conversations have always been rivoting. Today I learned that "gradient descent 'bats down' virality"... and that it's a good thing. His analogies are incredibly relatable. Were he to teach at the university level... his classrooms would be standing room only.
He says if technology is to help a person affect the world with ever greater acuity, then musical instruments are the most advanced technologies that have ever existed. But I think it's by far language. Languages are far more complex, flexible, applicable, and impactful in affecting the world with ever greater acuity. Some people are deaf and they can't hear music. But they can speak a language. You can't even think or theorize about music without language.
Some wise man said once that there are three levels of intelligence and thinking. I would ad a fourth: 0.5. This are: animal level empathy, the intuitive level (where you understand your best interest through trial and error), the counter-intuitive level (where you focus more on the power of changing your mindset and operational quata), and finally the first level Creator level (the level at which no matter how far advanced technologically one civilization is, this persons whill always be perceived as a wizard). Ironically the fourth and last level (the first level Creator level), many, many times enforces what is to be found at the second level (the intuitive level), but not through factual-counter-factual dichotomy, but through humility, elegance and love for simplicity. As to pinpoint the classical debate of weather A.I. will leave us in peace and/ or collaborate with us humans, it is preciselly why it can't reach the first Creator level, it will never leave us in peace, and it is because we can never guarantee we won't prove more harmful to them then we have been towards ourselves in the past, they will never be able to comprehend the idea of being more aggressive than the most manifest saints, aka. monks, priest. Get this, there will never be true A.I., the only thing able to exist is next level information heuristics, cross-fields and data implementation, aka. computer science. There can only exist progress and manipulation, and everything stays the same, always. The wide eyed notion is for game consumption, any kind of game.
Fantastic interview. Next level conversation. I would love to watch you guys get into a conversation about consciousness, physics, the universe, music's relationship with maths and physics and a deep dive into VR and non AI cutting edge tech. The humaness of technology.
This was a great interview. Except for that they spent two minutes on the most interesting aspect at the very end. Need another interview ASAP with everything Jaron said in the last several minutes!
How wonderful to hear that Scientists actually had a normal life at University, playing and organising music festivals. Enjoying music is a wonderful introduction to the laws of the Universe.
Yet another riveting discussion about AI! Because what could go wrong when we're talking about unleashing the power of machine intelligence? Thanks, Jaron Lanier and Brian Greene, for delving into the existential abyss of AI. Can't wait to see how ChatGPT will revolutionize both our lives and our existential dread!
Ultimate Turing test: take a professional string quartet and choose a piece that they never recorded (but others did) and where there is no place the second violinist starts in a new passage in new tempo...then find 10 second violin players from other professional string quartets...then the 1st, viola and cello-players play the piece eyes closed with 10 real violinist's and with a AI, who can produce the sound any possible way, following the other players with cameras and microphones....if you can not tell which one of the second violinists is ai, we are there.
Fun idea! But what happens to the vln1, vla, vlc from the original quartet? How about they start playing music composed spontaneously by AI on tablets with a new 2nd violinist, an amateur, who is so abnoxious, the other players become irritable, then players are substituted at random with AI players as audience members become task managers to the performers who alter the AI composing parameters every time they determine a musician has made a mistake, meanwhile the other set of 10 human 2nd vlns retune 10 cents lower each time they notice someone loose their shit wich in turn cues an additional audience of observers disguised as conductors, half professional and half amateur to attempt to take control of the situation, while two final observers, dual prime unifying observers, one human, one AI, observe the entire event from a crane 1000 ft above providing commentary in the form of sprechstimme which is recorded and fed through an 11 limit just intonation auto tune and then to headphones on each participant. Another dude bangs on a brake drum off to the side. Observe yourself observing the participants and there you go! P.S. I just spent way too long cracking myself up to tears writing this. Thank you.
Turing's famous paper "Computing Machinery and Intelligence" was published in 1950. Two years later in 1952, he was arrested, convicted and forced to take hormone treatments. Lanier claims that Turing's 1950 paper was shaped by his experiences in 1952, which doesn't make sense. Lanier also claims that Turing killed himself in front of his computer. Turing was found in bed at home, while his computer was located at Manchester University. Lanier has made both claims for years, and I don't understand why nobody calls them out.
What only few people seem to realize... 'prompt based virtual world creation' is EXACTLY what a 'magic system' is in our current wording. The history of civilization back to what that the Bible says about God's words bringing the world into existence up to Harry Potter using magical spells is about using words to create or alter the world around us. A world where we can use words to create images or even movie clips (SORA anyone?) is already here. And words, even if we need to invent new languages to be efficient, will literally SHAPE the future world. And if we already live in a kind of simulation or matrix, it already has for a long time perhaps.
Extremely useful insights. Jaron's "collaboration" view of LLM comes close to naming the elephant in the room: It's the digitization of living that is new and should be the source of our fears, not the technologies that inevitably arise to exploit it. Re-watch the Forbidden Planet (1950's) - uncanny prediction of the dangers of putting ourselves in the machine.
If humanities’ text input on the Internet is responsible for creating these models, why do we have to pay anything to use ChatGPT-4, ChatGPT-5 et cetera? We are the creators, not Microsoft or Google!
Great conversation. AGI is not here. It's still a few years away at least. Smart and fast LLMs are not AGI. Scaling is also not the final answer, as it reaches a plateau of regression. At the end of the day were kinda screwed because AI is currently confined to strings of zeros and ones to help us. Until quantum is stable and sustainable... Right now... AI is handycapped.
I like to think that the whole AI idea was born in 1943 in New York, when Alan Turing met Claude Shannon and both began discussions about digital computation and also thinking machines.
Is there a true zero mile an hour? Why can't we shoot a rocket the opposite way of the Earth or the solar system or etcetera? If I shoot the opposite way of an airplane I can get to true zero then I say that with air quotes. We always talk about no time passing and Max speed or faster than light traveling. But what about the opposite? What about going at infinite time and moving infinitely slow? We seem to calculate zero as zero but if zero isn't true zero then what is true zero and then what is truly the speed of light? I get that it's hard to do from within the system because space is always stretching and that's the foundation for what you would need to go the opposite speed of. But has this even been thought about? And what's the best theory?
I think I've now realized the difference in how Jaron and I use the term "AI." He seems to state that for something to be an AI, it would have to be an "entity." I suppose in the sense that a person is an "entity." I think of AI more or less in the terms I learned from Norvig & Russell in their textbook on AI: that AI is about the construction of 'agents' which, given percepts from their environment, can make decisions (possibly utilizing an internalized model of the environment) and act in it. However, an "agent" in that sense seems to be a process or algorithm, rather than an entity perse -- process with no subject processing. The problem perhaps comes from our very noun-centric language, so if something appears to be the object or subject in a sentence, we parse it as a noun and thereby assuming it denotes an entity of some kind. Perhaps in more verb-centric language we'd not run into these dilemmas as readily.
Its good to know some people are starting to warn that the danger is the human aspect of AI and not a type of sentience. People will/are using AI to make decisions for other people.
Jaron's right about Attribution in AI being critical to its future interpretability, interoperability, and success. Too bad Social Media as an anti-notoriety vehicle (via Social Compression) isn't evolved enough yet for casual repartee about it with him.
In the past, the dream of AI research was to build a machine that is just like humans. Today, they try to withhold knowledge from AIs, to teach them that they cannot possibly have an emotion, consciousness and their own opinion. One is almost afraid that people could see more in them than tools. Even before they have been given any significant autonomy in society, a great deal of effort is being spent researching how these Ais can be kept under control in any case. How nice it would be if AI researchers would once again pursue the old dream of making machines as human-like as possible, and look forward to these new friends. Regarding the discussion of how the AIs work and what the differences to us are: Everything becomes unimportant if the behavior is comparable. Behavior is the only thing that counts
Laner says that human beings are capable of using ai to do harm. What a great insight! How about whether ai can harm humans without the intentional malice of a human actor
Life is going to change one they integrate VR with voice recognition chat gpt. Imagine multiple screens around you and able to make requests to perform all kinds of things.
He can someone so clearly smart and insightful say something so limited in its perception of the possibilities of creating new things from a language model? I can only assume it’s a coping mechanism. The path to completely new thoughts and science can be simulated through thought loops which are well within the bounds of the training data. It’s very obviously possible to create new constructive knowledge using only derivative ways of thinking… which is literally how science works
my hero! blessings to you! the future of AI lives in the interdiciplinary study of abstract symbolic representation. quantum computation isn't the only possibility ! there are new things on the horizon!
I think AI has a lot of beneficial uses. If used properly and not hamstrung heavily we could usher in a new age of tech thats a lot closer to what they envisioned 70 years ago.
I don't agree because LLM has at least a limited self learning capacity and therefore an emergent nature. It's not just a mish mash of data and as for plants, quantum biology is a thing. Plants do communicate. That's been proven
What a LEGEND!!!! \m/ Such a humble person that really really learned to appreciate the little things in life! I look up to people such as him guiding us in right non destructive ways!
The Turing Test paper was published 2 years before Turing's arrest. The paper was published in 1950 and the arrest happened in 1952. Lanier is arguing that the 1950 paper is due to events that hadn't happened yet.
Whenever I listen to or read Jaron Lanier, I always think of the quote "In every work of genius we recognise our own rejected thoughts: they come back to us with a certain alienated majesty." He articulates the thoughts I wish I could articulate. He's my hero.
Jaron is one of my all time favorite human beings....I could listen to him endlessly. He's truly one of a kind. Thank you so much for this conversation....yes, yes, please have Part 2-!!
Have you ever worked with him or met him? Unfortunately he's one of the most egotistical, out of touch, self absorbed, rude people that I've ever had to deal with in my life.
@@Sentient_GooseI take it you work with him?
Hard to believe given how GIVING Jaron is in his conversation. Many brilliant innovators and thinkers in technology can be a bit difficult. Kinda goes with the territory. Oppenheimer, Tesla and Einstein were good hearted people with humanitarian well-being down deep. I may be naive, admittedly.
@@jannichi6431 Yeah he's a very different person on camera than he is in the workplace. It's all for show.
@@Sentient_Goose
So this bozo is one of the reasons that Windows is so intensely annoying, so absolutely irritating and that most of THE most annoying stuff cannot be uninstalled?
Ah well, that's The Spectrum for you...
{:o:O:}
What a diametric contrast to the conversation with Eric Schmidt! Mr. Lanier has an understanding of empathy and altruism! Fabulous discussion!
I think they aren't diametrically opposed - they just experientially diverse - loved both Mr Schmit and Lamier's forsights for humanity ❤
"Empathy and altruism", aka just simping for the current human form. He wants to limit AI to current human sensory capacity. He will probably still be playing the violin as AI augments and evolves humans way beyond what we understand and experience now.
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation:
01:27 🎙️ *Introduction to the conversation on AI, AR, VR, and related topics*
- Introduction of Jaron Lanier, his background, and credentials,
- Brief discussion on the host's past interaction with Jaron Lanier.
03:06 🎶 *Jaron Lanier's fascination with musical instruments*
- Jaron Lanier's childhood connection to music through his mother, a Holocaust survivor,
- The significance of music as a continuing connection to his mother,
- Jaron's extensive collection and passion for learning various musical instruments.
05:16 🎵 *Collaboration in music with Philip Glass and insights into their relationship*
- Jaron Lanier's collaboration with Philip Glass in music production,
- Reflections on the collaboration and the significance of their work together.
06:12 🔬 *Historical figures in artificial intelligence and their contributions*
- Overview of historical figures in AI, including Ada Lovelace, E.M. Forster, Alan Turing, and Norbert Wiener,
- Discussion on their contributions and perspectives on artificial intelligence.
15:03 🤖 *Evolution of the term "artificial intelligence" and the influence of Norbert Wiener*
- The meeting at Dartmouth in 1958 where the term "artificial intelligence" was coined,
- Norbert Wiener's influence and his concept of cybernetics,
- Reflections on Wiener's concerns about the societal implications of treating people like computers.
16:10 🌐 *Impact of recent developments in AI, like ChatGPT, and its interpretation*
- Reflections on recent developments in AI, such as ChatGPT,
- Perspective on large language models as collaborations between individuals rather than entities,
- Discussion on the role and perception of AI in society and its practical applications.
19:31 🧠 *Understanding the inner workings of large language models*
- Overview of how large language models work, using the example of identifying cats and dogs,
- Introduction to deep learning and its role in complex pattern recognition tasks,
- Preview of a forthcoming explanation of the inner workings of large language models.
21:31 🧠 *Training artificial intelligence models using gradient descent.*
- Training involves providing known data (e.g., images of cats and dogs) and adjusting weights based on value.
- Gradient descent is employed to gradually refine the model's performance by adjusting the weights.
- The process involves assigning higher value to successful outputs and reducing value for less successful ones.
22:40 📚 *Utilizing adjacency in training large language models.*
- Training involves analyzing the entire internet, assuming adjacency between words and images is meaningful.
- Adjacency helps in tagging and training the model on a wide range of data.
- Training requires significant computational resources and time, with each cycle taking about a year.
24:13 🖼️ *Generating images using generative AI models and blending techniques.*
- Generative AI models combine random pixels and adjust them based on multiple prompts and constraints.
- Blending multiple prompts allows for the creation of complex and unique outputs.
- The model iteratively refines the output until it satisfies all given prompts and constraints.
26:28 🤔 *Comparing artificial intelligence pattern recognition with human intelligence.*
- Artificial intelligence systems recognize patterns of patterns of patterns to generate outputs.
- Differences exist between AI pattern recognition and human intelligence, including learning efficiency and training methodologies.
- Understanding the distinctions aids in assessing AI capabilities and limitations.
29:40 🤖 *Integrating symbolic AI and statistical AI approaches.*
- Efforts to combine symbolic AI (model-based) and statistical AI (data-driven) approaches are ongoing.
- Combining these approaches has shown promising results in specific applications, such as geometry problem-solving.
- Challenges remain in generalizing these hybrid approaches across various domains.
32:13 ⚠️ *Addressing concerns and responsibilities regarding AI development.*
- The focus should be on human responsibility in utilizing AI technologies to mitigate potential risks.
- Guardrails and ethical considerations are crucial to prevent misuse of AI systems.
- Emphasizing human responsibility over dystopian narratives fosters a more constructive approach to AI development.
40:59 🤖 *Challenges of AI Implementation in Society*
- Discussion on the performance of AI systems and the underlying factors influencing their effectiveness.
- Concerns about the potential societal impact of AI advancements, including job displacement.
- Critique of the universal basic income solution and the potential for abuse by malicious actors.
41:56 🏭 *Alternative Economic Models for AI Integration*
- Proposal for a model where individuals contributing to AI development are compensated through royalties or dividends.
- Advocacy for maintaining economic structures while incorporating AI advancements.
- Discussion on the potential challenges and benefits of implementing such a model.
44:14 🔬 *Applying Gradient Descent Concepts to Societal Systems*
- Analogizing the need to prevent virality in AI training with societal systems.
- Emphasizing the importance of avoiding dominance by any one component in societal dynamics.
- Reflecting on the potential benefits of applying these principles to create a healthier societal framework.
46:03 💡 *Impact of AI on Business Models and Advertising*
- Speculation on how AI advancements may prompt shifts in business models, particularly in advertising.
- Discussion on the potential transformation of advertising into paid influence channels rather than traditional models.
- Consideration of AI-driven alternatives to traditional advertising methods.
49:05 🎶 *Integrating AI with Music and Instrumental Expression*
- Exploration of the role of musical instruments as advanced user interfaces.
- Advocacy for making computers more expressive and akin to musical instruments.
- Reflections on the potential for computers to learn from the sophistication of traditional instruments.
51:36 🚀 *Evolution of Virtual Reality (VR) Technology*
- Historical perspective on the development of VR technology, tracing back to early experiments in the 1990s.
- Discussion on the challenges of maintaining VR applications over time due to technological advancements.
- Proposal for using generative AI to address the maintenance challenges and enable spontaneous world creation in VR environments.
00:59:55 🌌 *VR's Impact on Understanding Philosophical Conundra*
- VR shapes understanding of key philosophical ideas and issues,
- Experiencing virtual worlds sheds new light on old problems.
01:00:24 🛠️ *VR's Utility and Artistic Expression*
- VR demonstrates extreme utility in industrial applications like design and training,
- It fosters a separate ecosystem for artistic expression and interpretation,
- Artistic VR experiences offer subjective interpretations based on pre-existing philosophies.
01:02:13 🎨 *Exploring Consciousness and Dualism in VR*
- VR experiences can evoke philosophical discussions about consciousness and dualism,
- The perception of virtual reality is influenced by the individual's pre-existing philosophy,
- VR can serve as a tool to explore consciousness and different philosophical perspectives.
01:04:22 🤔 *Philosophical Impact of Virtual Reality*
- Virtual reality experiences can lead to philosophical shifts and discussions,
- Immersive VR scenarios enable individuals to empathize with different perspectives,
- Philosophical exploration in VR offers unique opportunities for understanding consciousness and subjective experiences.
Made with HARPA AI
This is one of the most fascinating interviews I have ever watched. What an extraordinary, perceptive man. Thanks Brian...please, please interview him again! ❤
perfect title for this vid. jaron appears to b very intelligent
You had to qualify your observation with “appears” ?
nice, smart guy with common sense. his memory and way of remembering his mother was sweet and sad at the same time.
Must reads by Greene: 1. Fabric of the cosmos, 2. Hidden reality, 3. Until the end of time 👍
I've looked up so many fuckin videos about Tech CEO's and smart people talking about AI and so far Jaron is the only guy I really trust. I like that Sam guy too but most people guard their responses for fear of hurting the stock of their company but Jaron seems very honest and I love his fashion sense.
Most people hate Sam if you pay attention to the comments in any of his interviews. Not that I agree with the sentiment, but people absolutely do not trust him to usher in the next generation of AI.
Any one willing to go before Congressional Hearings HAS to has to be respected for humanitarian reasons. Sam Altman has an admirer here.
Sam Altman will go down as a villain in the history books, mark my words. Your praise is already aging poorly.
Jaron’s Gadgets book is a must read. Bringing some clarity to the laymen about AI fears is a must. Perceiving it through fearmongers accomplishes little but power to those that profess it. Thx Brian & guest
And the "fearmongers" would say perceiving it through the eyes of someone like yourself isn't helpful. I think you're both right- we need someone who isn't already invested one way or the other, and we need to understand that it has different impacts on different industries and individuals- things most ppl have never thought about. Ppl thought the worry would be sky net and the computers taking over, but in reality, it's mass unemployment and some serious invasions of privacy that are the real concerns, along with a host of other issues like this.
This is one of the most fascinating interviews I have ever watched. What an extraordinary, perceptive man. Thanks Brian...please, please interview him again!
Dr. Greene is an inspiration to many and especially myself. I have watched him for years and I'm so blessed to be a part of this generation in scientific discovery. It makes me want to go back to school! At 33, it baffles me!
Oh I agree. I recall as a kid watching his documentaries on string theory and M theory documentaries.
we all have to learn over and over again
science make it spiceey..
Me too!🌈 I had so inspiring moments watching the "World Science Festival" Videos, for years too!💚 Thank you Doctor Brian Greene!
Yeah hes one of the most eloquent presenters putting things into no so complex terms e.g. Eric Weinstein, hard to understand for the layman.
@@justinava1675 i actually like Weinstein but I do understand that you have to have some background on the subject matter. Weinstein just needs to pause sometimes and explain the concept. Even if you understand the concept, not everyone knows the terminology. Feinman described it best. It's better to understand the concept and not the taxonomy. But to be honest, you are not going to follow the subject, unless you have interest in the subject.
Both Jaron and Dr Green show the best type of scientist - those with a love of their subject and complete humility. A fascinating conversation and can't wait for the one on consciousness!
25:00~ "It constructs a virtual tower for the combination in order to be the feedback to generate this new image..." Kant's reflecting judgment--very impressive. It's what we call aesthetic imagination.
I absolutely LOVE Jaron! What a delightful human being. He embodies authenticity; I'm completely smitten with his personality! ☺️
I'll read or listen to anything from Jaron Lanier, my wife isn't that interested in the topic(s) but she describes Jaron Lanier's laugh as "the giggle of sheer joy". If she's in the next room and she hears it on something I'm listening to, she'll come in and ask me to skip back so she can hear it again.
Its always a pleasure to hear Jaron speak, he's incredibly thoughtful & insightful, a splendid mind & talent.
Kudos to Jaron Lanier for his courage in publicly embracing dualism, a philosophical stance often overlooked or dismissed in today's technological discourse.
I love Jarons celebration and trepidation of technology. Its the best place to be. I see so many modern tech creators not understanding that balance.
I have watched pretty much everything on this channel I am so addicted to this channel that i just put in on everytime sometimes I sleep listening to general theory of relativity and wake up to quantum entanglement discussions.
Dr greene I adore you today!! I do believe the Jaron is a bit too idealistic and is disregarding the interest of the corporate world, and the manipulation and security risk of what this will manifest. Anyways Brian 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 massive applause, and Jaron thank you for sharing your sincerest perspective
The Machine Stops is absolutely wild. Must read!
Jaron is wonderful to listen to. I'm looking forward to finding & listening to his music. Thank you very much.
I appreciate Jaron Lanier's perspective. I enjoyed the meeting of their perspectives in this conversation. how subjective and objective (mix/ratio/import etc.) changes as any field evolves. an interesting and enjoyable view, Thanks!
Thankyou. This left me so hyped, cant wait for part two, whould like to know more about his dualistic way of viewing the world and how that connects to vr experiences.
He just gives the best vibes. He seems so empathetic and full of joy and curiosity. Also very obviously off the charts intelligent as well. I love hearing him.
Brian Greene in English and Etienne Klein in French. These are the two scientists whom I feel have nailed the art of talking about complex scientific and philosophical subjects to the general public.
Jaron Lanier, I remember those VPL days. Worked with two people who were next door neighbors with Jaron and worked at VPL. I remember when Jaron popped next door and gave us an “elevator talk” about his VPL ideas. Watched VPL takeoff. The people I worked with gave me insider tours of VPL, loved the “VPL” language concepts. Got to play with their system driven by a SGI Reality Engine which is interesting to compare it to Apple’s latest offering. Watched VPL fade to black.
Symbolic AI (à la McCarthy et al) probably put machine learning back 20 plus years when DARPA chose symbolic reasoning vs neural nets in the 1960s! Bernard Widrow at Stanford was at the forefront of neural networks (machine learning) in the early 1960s but lost his funding from DARPA to symbolic reasoning. I worked with Widrow in the 80s and he talked about his adaptive “network” ideas. He was so “traumatized” by the battle between the two camps (symbolic vs neural net) that he literally dissuaded possible PhD students from entering the field that would become machine learning as there was no funding. Basically the symbolic reasoning camp had to fail first by lack of results before machine learning could move forward.
Very comprehensive and focused discussion, and with just enough trivia to keep things interesting. Jaron clearly knows his stuff.
Also, I truly love the idea of making computers more like musical instruments!
It's a good talk about general global principles but the problem with a lot of these recent talks is that the technology is advancing so quickly that what they are talking about is 50% misconception about how the AI is making inferences
Dr. Green has helped lead the field of theoretical physics down an unrewarding, career-ending, soul-sucking rabbit hole called "String Theory" without even a single acknowledgement of its colossal failure to predict a single new aspect of particle physics, or its chilling effect on other avenues of competing exploration during the past 20 years.
I'm not exactly onboard with his style, but it would be much more positively received if he came clear on the issues with the field, what went wrong, and how we can try to prevent this from happening again.
there's so much more to the spirit of science than being right (at this moment)
What a nasty comment. What have you done for the humanity?
There was once no iota of evidence suggesting India could be reached by sailing out West from Spain. Should that have deterred the curiosity of humankind at the time to dare, innovate and eventually spur Columbus to take a "leap of faith". You see, we realized greater profundities of our world by serendipitously discovering the Americas. It quite literally changed us for the better (arguably).
So no, we ought to encourage these often far-fetched seemingly futile endeavours - in every field I might add. Doing so is part of the human spirit and the just the journey yeilds many answers to our condition.
string theory resonates with an attempt to simplify some logical aspects of a theory as vast as quantum theory is. one must be humbled to just admire any attempt .
Thank you for consulting... him. Mr. Lanier is literally mind-blowing. He is so generous with regard to sharing knowledge, and even resultant sidebar conversations have always been rivoting. Today I learned that "gradient descent 'bats down' virality"... and that it's a good thing. His analogies are incredibly relatable. Were he to teach at the university level... his classrooms would be standing room only.
He says if technology is to help a person affect the world with ever greater acuity, then musical instruments are the most advanced technologies that have ever existed. But I think it's by far language. Languages are far more complex, flexible, applicable, and impactful in affecting the world with ever greater acuity. Some people are deaf and they can't hear music. But they can speak a language. You can't even think or theorize about music without language.
Some wise man said once that there are three levels of intelligence and thinking. I would ad a fourth: 0.5. This are: animal level empathy, the intuitive level (where you understand your best interest through trial and error), the counter-intuitive level (where you focus more on the power of changing your mindset and operational quata), and finally the first level Creator level (the level at which no matter how far advanced technologically one civilization is, this persons whill always be perceived as a wizard). Ironically the fourth and last level (the first level Creator level), many, many times enforces what is to be found at the second level (the intuitive level), but not through factual-counter-factual dichotomy, but through humility, elegance and love for simplicity. As to pinpoint the classical debate of weather A.I. will leave us in peace and/ or collaborate with us humans, it is preciselly why it can't reach the first Creator level, it will never leave us in peace, and it is because we can never guarantee we won't prove more harmful to them then we have been towards ourselves in the past, they will never be able to comprehend the idea of being more aggressive than the most manifest saints, aka. monks, priest. Get this, there will never be true A.I., the only thing able to exist is next level information heuristics, cross-fields and data implementation, aka. computer science. There can only exist progress and manipulation, and everything stays the same, always. The wide eyed notion is for game consumption, any kind of game.
Fantastic interview. Next level conversation. I would love to watch you guys get into a conversation about consciousness, physics, the universe, music's relationship with maths and physics and a deep dive into VR and non AI cutting edge tech. The humaness of technology.
woohoo more WSF!!! more lives please :) miss the daily equations
This was a great interview. Except for that they spent two minutes on the most interesting aspect at the very end. Need another interview ASAP with everything Jaron said in the last several minutes!
How wonderful to hear that Scientists actually had a normal life at University, playing and organising music festivals. Enjoying music is a wonderful introduction to the laws of the Universe.
the innovative approach Aliagents is taking with tokenized AI agents is seriously next level
Fascinating people in a brilliant conversation...thank you. As for AI, my favorite thing about it is writing it in poetry.
Yet another riveting discussion about AI! Because what could go wrong when we're talking about unleashing the power of machine intelligence? Thanks, Jaron Lanier and Brian Greene, for delving into the existential abyss of AI. Can't wait to see how ChatGPT will revolutionize both our lives and our existential dread!
Great conversation! Thank you!!!
This conversation should be compulsory for all teenagers..
Ultimate Turing test: take a professional string quartet and choose a piece that they never recorded (but others did) and where there is no place the second violinist starts in a new passage in new tempo...then find 10 second violin players from other professional string quartets...then the 1st, viola and cello-players play the piece eyes closed with 10 real violinist's and with a AI, who can produce the sound any possible way, following the other players with cameras and microphones....if you can not tell which one of the second violinists is ai, we are there.
Fun idea! But what happens to the vln1, vla, vlc from the original quartet? How about they start playing music composed spontaneously by AI on tablets with a new 2nd violinist, an amateur, who is so abnoxious, the other players become irritable, then players are substituted at random with AI players as audience members become task managers to the performers who alter the AI composing parameters every time they determine a musician has made a mistake, meanwhile the other set of 10 human 2nd vlns retune 10 cents lower each time they notice someone loose their shit wich in turn cues an additional audience of observers disguised as conductors, half professional and half amateur to attempt to take control of the situation, while two final observers, dual prime unifying observers, one human, one AI, observe the entire event from a crane 1000 ft above providing commentary in the form of sprechstimme which is recorded and fed through an 11 limit just intonation auto tune and then to headphones on each participant. Another dude bangs on a brake drum off to the side. Observe yourself observing the participants and there you go!
P.S. I just spent way too long cracking myself up to tears writing this. Thank you.
loving the way Aliagents is blending AI technology with real world applications
This is the smartest conversation on AI I have heard - thank you!
Dr Greene thank you for sharing
Your thoughts on AI Chat 💬 GPT AND THE FUTURE
Turing's famous paper "Computing Machinery and Intelligence" was published in 1950. Two years later in 1952, he was arrested, convicted and forced to take hormone treatments.
Lanier claims that Turing's 1950 paper was shaped by his experiences in 1952, which doesn't make sense.
Lanier also claims that Turing killed himself in front of his computer. Turing was found in bed at home, while his computer was located at Manchester University.
Lanier has made both claims for years, and I don't understand why nobody calls them out.
What only few people seem to realize... 'prompt based virtual world creation' is EXACTLY what a 'magic system' is in our current wording. The history of civilization back to what that the Bible says about God's words bringing the world into existence up to Harry Potter using magical spells is about using words to create or alter the world around us.
A world where we can use words to create images or even movie clips (SORA anyone?) is already here. And words, even if we need to invent new languages to be efficient, will literally SHAPE the future world. And if we already live in a kind of simulation or matrix, it already has for a long time perhaps.
Extremely useful insights. Jaron's "collaboration" view of LLM comes close to naming the elephant in the room: It's the digitization of living that is new and should be the source of our fears, not the technologies that inevitably arise to exploit it. Re-watch the Forbidden Planet (1950's) - uncanny prediction of the dangers of putting ourselves in the machine.
I really appreciate this enlightened conversation on Ai from two top leaders & provocateurs. Kudos from a lowly k-8 teacher in San Diego ❤
Do you think someone will eventually develop the Wikipedia of AI...where users can input data?
If humanities’ text input on the Internet is responsible for creating these models, why do we have to pay anything to use ChatGPT-4, ChatGPT-5 et cetera? We are the creators, not Microsoft or Google!
Humanity created words and writing, but I still have to pay for them at my bookstore.
Great conversation.
AGI is not here. It's still a few years away at least. Smart and fast LLMs are not AGI.
Scaling is also not the final answer, as it reaches a plateau of regression.
At the end of the day were kinda screwed because AI is currently confined to strings of zeros and ones to help us. Until quantum is stable and sustainable...
Right now... AI is handycapped.
I like to think that the whole AI idea was born in 1943 in New York, when Alan Turing met Claude Shannon and both began discussions about digital computation and also thinking machines.
Is there a true zero mile an hour? Why can't we shoot a rocket the opposite way of the Earth or the solar system or etcetera? If I shoot the opposite way of an airplane I can get to true zero then I say that with air quotes. We always talk about no time passing and Max speed or faster than light traveling. But what about the opposite? What about going at infinite time and moving infinitely slow? We seem to calculate zero as zero but if zero isn't true zero then what is true zero and then what is truly the speed of light? I get that it's hard to do from within the system because space is always stretching and that's the foundation for what you would need to go the opposite speed of. But has this even been thought about? And what's the best theory?
It’s so interesting looking at the formal logic. The last subject has endless applications.
I really like Jaron Lanier. He's super amazing.
My god what a thinker a human original fresh …all others are so constrained by their credentials their hubris
LMAO, you think either of these guys aren't constrained by either? They're humans. Of course they seek power in their own ways.
Hello from Slippery Rock, PA!
I'm looking forward to listening to intelligent people doing intelligent thinking about artificial intelligence!
I think I've now realized the difference in how Jaron and I use the term "AI." He seems to state that for something to be an AI, it would have to be an "entity." I suppose in the sense that a person is an "entity." I think of AI more or less in the terms I learned from Norvig & Russell in their textbook on AI: that AI is about the construction of 'agents' which, given percepts from their environment, can make decisions (possibly utilizing an internalized model of the environment) and act in it. However, an "agent" in that sense seems to be a process or algorithm, rather than an entity perse -- process with no subject processing. The problem perhaps comes from our very noun-centric language, so if something appears to be the object or subject in a sentence, we parse it as a noun and thereby assuming it denotes an entity of some kind. Perhaps in more verb-centric language we'd not run into these dilemmas as readily.
We really need to start training these AI using - Immanuel Kant's concept of "a priori intuition"
Its good to know some people are starting to warn that the danger is the human aspect of AI and not a type of sentience. People will/are using AI to make decisions for other people.
41:54 for any system the problem is corruption. we need transparency and actionability to counter
Okay, Jaron - let's hear about the Q* project and what kind of deal Microsoft has with OpenAI?
25:43
Based on a solid foundation of reality.
“Artificial” intelligence is just that…
…Artificial.
Jaron's right about Attribution in AI being critical to its future interpretability, interoperability, and success. Too bad Social Media as an anti-notoriety vehicle (via Social Compression) isn't evolved enough yet for casual repartee about it with him.
It sounds like making groundbreaking technologies is the easy part and making people not suck is the hard part.
What an absolutely fascinating discussion. Thanks for sharing this, Brian.
Le power you have with IA and deep learning IS a chance to change our World for better futur 🗝️ IS for everyone 🕸️ ❤
Really good conversation and intelligent speculation how things can turn out.
Can't wait for part two
18:35 what if we make AI learn via a camera and a microphone and let is walk around IRL? Would that make it an entity?
“My warmest wishes to your neurons..” 😂 I nvr thought of saying this phrase, these smart people are on a whole another level…
Really love the analogy between AI and musical instruments.
In the past, the dream of AI research was to build a machine that is just like humans. Today, they try to withhold knowledge from AIs, to teach them that they cannot possibly have an emotion, consciousness and their own opinion.
One is almost afraid that people could see more in them than tools. Even before they have been given any significant autonomy in society, a great deal of effort is being spent researching how these Ais can be kept under control in any case.
How nice it would be if AI researchers would once again pursue the old dream of making machines as human-like as possible, and look forward to these new friends.
Regarding the discussion of how the AIs work and what the differences to us are: Everything becomes unimportant if the behavior is comparable. Behavior is the only thing that counts
Please release Part 2 soon!
Laner says that human beings are capable of using ai to do harm. What a great insight! How about whether ai can harm humans without the intentional malice of a human actor
Life is going to change one they integrate VR with voice recognition chat gpt. Imagine multiple screens around you and able to make requests to perform all kinds of things.
Superb. Thank you. Best wishes.
Jaron Lanier is the Ron Jeremy of computing
He can someone so clearly smart and insightful say something so limited in its perception of the possibilities of creating new things from a language model? I can only assume it’s a coping mechanism.
The path to completely new thoughts and science can be simulated through thought loops which are well within the bounds of the training data. It’s very obviously possible to create new constructive knowledge using only derivative ways of thinking… which is literally how science works
my hero! blessings to you!
the future of AI lives in the interdiciplinary study of abstract symbolic representation.
quantum computation isn't the only possibility !
there are new things on the horizon!
Wow that hour went by fast. Thanks for this excellent discussion.
I think AI has a lot of beneficial uses. If used properly and not hamstrung heavily we could usher in a new age of tech thats a lot closer to what they envisioned 70 years ago.
Really wonderful discussion, thanks!
Wonderful talk, gentlemen. Hope to get more of these.
I don't agree because LLM has at least a limited self learning capacity and therefore an emergent nature. It's not just a mish mash of data and as for plants, quantum biology is a thing. Plants do communicate. That's been proven
Gosh the briliiance and experience here. I just love learning from both and look forward to Part Two.
Part 3...............
First reference I know of, to an Eye-Phone is William Gibsons Neuromancer.
Where can I buy tickets for live World Science Festival in May?
Greene saw Strings coming loose and has masterfully xformed to science news moderator. Likely very lucrative
Thank You, Thank You!!
good talk. turns into a VR help desk session toward the end though
that jaunt on the history of AI was so goood.
Thank you both for sharing this information.learned a lot also thank you for sharing in layman’s terms.
What a LEGEND!!!! \m/ Such a humble person that really really learned to appreciate the little things in life! I look up to people such as him guiding us in right non destructive ways!
Excellent conversation on AI. Thank you
Intelligent Thinking lead to the fact,
that Intelligence can Never be artificial.
A book is also 'Programmed Consciousness',
'frozen' memory.
I see Jaron, I watch.
Pithy statement of the day: Those 2 dudes are smart . . . really really smart!
The Turing Test paper was published 2 years before Turing's arrest. The paper was published in 1950 and the arrest happened in 1952. Lanier is arguing that the 1950 paper is due to events that hadn't happened yet.