Microsoft Flight Sim 2024 32GB vs 64GB - Should YOU UPGRADE? 2D & VR STRESS TEST! 13900K, 4090

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ธ.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 109

  • @David-xk4xx
    @David-xk4xx หลายเดือนก่อน +50

    Thanks for providing this test. You've saved a lot of money for the flight sim community though you may not be invited to any RAM manufacturer parties this Christmas

    • @VRFlightSimGuy
      @VRFlightSimGuy  หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Haha thanks David 😊

    • @tdhitchins
      @tdhitchins หลายเดือนก่อน

      I've just upgraded with this game in mind BUT it ended up being a free upgrade from my 32gb sticks. Long story

  • @MonkeyDolphin
    @MonkeyDolphin หลายเดือนก่อน +24

    I watched another video on this topic where the performance appeared the same until the camera was panned 360 degrees, and the 32GB variant hitched all over the place while the 64GB was very smooth. In my own testing, my sim is using over 31 GB while playing mostly smoothly, but there is occasional hitching when panning. I'm currently flying slow GA aircraft, but I suspect flying a jet at low altitudes might be a mess.
    In any event, I just had a 64GB kit delivered and will be installing this afternoon. The extra headroom will certainly be of use.

    • @JSmith73
      @JSmith73 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      Yeah you'll see the difference in the 0.1% lows for sure. That's where the memory headroom comes into play.

    • @shenmisheshou7002
      @shenmisheshou7002 13 วันที่ผ่านมา

      If you don't have the FPS counter from the developer toolkit on, you might want to open it I am running 13900KF and 4080 and my CPU is running smooth, but when I see hiccups, I see a corresponding red spices in the "Bandwidth" monitor. Also, I often see as much as 35gb in use.

  • @UkDave3856
    @UkDave3856 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

    Well, I solved the cross eyed issue with my Varjo Aero. One of my prescription lenses had popped out 😂

  • @HighOnYouDroneBoy
    @HighOnYouDroneBoy หลายเดือนก่อน +9

    I've just had the best flight I've ever had in the sim! I have 13900K, 32GB RAM and RTX 4090. Pico 4 VR. Wow, buttery smooth, mostly ultra settings and what I've noticed is just how crisp the graphics are now, and the new lighting engine is just amazing! Very happy and looking forward to what's to come in future. All is forgiven MS and Asobo!! :) PS - I have not even looked at what FPS i'm getting, it's all about how it FEELS! :)

    • @MonkeyDolphin
      @MonkeyDolphin หลายเดือนก่อน

      Same, but no VR for me. It is pretty spectacular, and has gotten better each day since launch.

    • @William_99640
      @William_99640 หลายเดือนก่อน

      crystal light is just a performance hog i have 13700k 4090 and prefer q3 everytime over the crystal light,im guessing pico 4 is about in the same boat.

  • @theVRpilot
    @theVRpilot หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Thanks Steve! What I expected!

  • @JSmith73
    @JSmith73 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    In a review like this you need to focus 100% on the 0.1% lows. I'm seeing my memory usage be right on the 32GB mark, just running the sim out of the box with TrackIR and SimShaker for Aviators, triple QHD. Most settings on Ultra, object lod 150, terrain 120 or so. No other extensions. So that leaves zero headroom, and Win11 will use the "remaining" memory for caching anyway. So: Zero chance I'd recommend a new build with only 32GB these days, especially as I also DCS. 7800x3d, 2x 2TB 990s, 4090, 7800x3d, 2x32 6000c30 (64GB).

  • @Bluth53
    @Bluth53 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Thanks, Steve. Could you repeat that in a month or 2? To check out whether or not it makes a difference with lots add-ons?

  • @NorbertLing
    @NorbertLing หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Thanks for the test Steve !

  • @walley2637
    @walley2637 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    for myself, i had 2 sticks of single rank 16gb ram to make 32gb so when i added 2 more to make 64gb it let the 4 strips of single rank run all 4 channels which improved performance regardless of the extra capacity. so it was worth it considering the low cost of ram lately.

    • @JsausageandbunEaterWithoniOn
      @JsausageandbunEaterWithoniOn หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Keep in mind that many cpus only support two channels, so 4 sticks is no faster than 2 sticks -but nothing wrong with using 4 sticks of course. Enjoy the upgrade :)

    • @intelligence6900
      @intelligence6900 หลายเดือนก่อน

      What’s that got to do with this ?

    • @walley2637
      @walley2637 29 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@intelligence6900 because in the video he says "there really is no need to upgrade to 64gb of ram". but for those like me with 2 sticks of "single rank" ram, adding 2 strips actually does show performance improvements. it may only be in the +5% range.. but it is still something you can see in benchmarks. probably a lot of people with an AMD cpu also have single rank ram (not the same as dual channel, check cpuz to determine)

    • @intelligence6900
      @intelligence6900 29 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @ anyone interested in 64 gb high speed ram knows the benefits of duel and quad channel ram

  • @Mitchellms123
    @Mitchellms123 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    I have been asking this question for days and no one knew a good answer

  • @elmaxlife
    @elmaxlife หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    64gb of ram is worth it if you put the Terrain quality over 200+ because with 32gb you will have stutters especially flying low (experienced it myself)
    Otherwise it's not necessary

  • @belgeode
    @belgeode หลายเดือนก่อน +8

    LOL... " the torture test". Pretty sure we had that test since Tuesday.

  • @Eskoxo
    @Eskoxo หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I did some further research think this should affect mostly 1% and 0.1% lows (stutter) and the utility does not seem to show those would need external tool like fps monitor.

  • @GT1GT
    @GT1GT หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Thank you Steve, appreciate the ram test.

  • @nicolaiiversen165
    @nicolaiiversen165 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Hi, can I ask how you have wired VR googles and monitor? Alternative 1: Do you have both connected to the RTX4090 or alternative 2: VR googles to RTX4090 and monitor to motherboard on computer? For myself I use alternative 2, if I try alternative 1 the monitor screen goes black then on then black then on. Itndosent work. So my question: what is recommended and normal? Br Nicolai

  • @dakndonk
    @dakndonk หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Hi Steve
    Not sure if you’ve tried this, I put my Varjo Aero at a resolution of 4860x4183, it’s the clearest I’ve ever seen and runs super sharp , graphics really high , runs so smooth

  • @airsheep
    @airsheep หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Thank you Steve, very interesting. Maybe Im just blind and can't find it in the test, but 1% low fps shuld be compared 32 vs 64gb.

  • @gregorymckenna6609
    @gregorymckenna6609 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    While the game will run happily with 32 gig, the extra 32 gig will be needed if you are running other software at the same time such as Little Nav Map or ATC communication software. Whether you are running 32, 64 or more gigs of memory, it is best to only use two sticks even though your motherboard can take 4 sticks. Memory managers work best with 2 sticks. Lastly, running one stick is also not recommended.

  • @BradleySoanes
    @BradleySoanes หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    Great video, i think it depends what you use it for.. if you are only using the sim then fine but if you do long haul flights and want to do other stuff on the side then 64GB is way better. Looking at the usage, 32GB is using 28-30GB of the 32GB RAM, if you have 64GB you are still using 30GB ish and have loads of headroom... you hit the nail on the head. FLight sim only.. 32GB, flight sim and anything else, 64GB all the way.

  • @Simmymind360
    @Simmymind360 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    This is a Great Video ..Thank you, ya just saved me from investing in another 32 Gigs of Ram👍

  • @a.b.c.d.e
    @a.b.c.d.e หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Tbh all I am seeing is 64GB is never a disadvantage, fps hover between 0-15% improvement in your test, and the 32GB RAM track 34GB usage at some points.
    Easiest 50$ spent to add 32GB to my system. Thanks for running this!

  • @jedispooner
    @jedispooner หลายเดือนก่อน

    Have you noticed the 13900K filling up the cores as it was designed? My 13900K is multithreading across 12 cores quite evening, amazingly smooth. I run 96Gb of ram and the sim uses about 32Gb but I do processing for 3D laser scanning on this pc too.

  • @koenvandermaaten
    @koenvandermaaten หลายเดือนก่อน

    Thanks! I did notice that the CPU memory usage in the 64GB scenario was around 37GB and in the 32GB scenario it said EXCEED RETAIL LIMIT..(whatever that means)… apart from fps, did you know notice any stuttering differences?

  • @vrkomplize
    @vrkomplize หลายเดือนก่อน

    Thanks for the review, Steve. This is an important note.

  • @SparkySven
    @SparkySven หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Would love to see same test but wit AMD Top Gaming CPU ZEN 5 Ryzen 7 9800X3D. Is this all with limiter off so it's not trying to have it at default 30fps?

    • @moogleslam
      @moogleslam หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Agree! And I'd love to see it when you have a 5090 too! :)

  • @martinandersson6695
    @martinandersson6695 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Nice test! But you are peaking over 32gb. It litterally says ”Peaked over retail budget” at the bottom of left test screen.

  • @ComdrStew
    @ComdrStew หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    64GB I was getting ready to do 96GB, lol. I play a lot of DCS though and sometimes my 64GB maxes out.

  • @RobFisherUK
    @RobFisherUK หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I imagine with more RAM it might load in more scenery in advance, which might reduce things like pop-in. Not quite sure how that could be tested, though.
    Btw 48GB is a good option if you want fast RAM and a bit of extra headroom.

  • @atkinssvg5757
    @atkinssvg5757 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    THANK YOU, saved me $90 by not going with 64gb vs 32gb!!

    • @VRFlightSimGuy
      @VRFlightSimGuy  หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      That's what I'm here for :)

  • @onboardsimulations8304
    @onboardsimulations8304 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Be interesting to see how it's fairs in a group flight, flying an add-on around add-on scenery. Seems to be the worse scenario for me in VR.

  • @wessidemike
    @wessidemike หลายเดือนก่อน

    Can you do some cpu testing? I have a 9700k and a 4090. I need to upgrade my CPU but not sure whats good value right now.

  • @sascenturion
    @sascenturion หลายเดือนก่อน

    Thanks steve ... 👍 ..good to know!

  • @Sataniceasterbunny
    @Sataniceasterbunny หลายเดือนก่อน

    installed yesterday the fenix for 2024 the ram usage was almost 100% !! i believe there is a problem with their experimental Fenix for 2024 because if this is the normal RAM usage for the fenix i will need another 32 gb of RAM

  • @bufftheowl
    @bufftheowl 19 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Yea but did you set the terrain level of detail to 400? That's when I suspect FS might utilise more RAM because it will try and render further away and also more things close.

    • @VRFlightSimGuy
      @VRFlightSimGuy  19 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      Yes. Everything on ultra.

  • @Mellonpopr
    @Mellonpopr หลายเดือนก่อน

    good info thank you for doing all of that work

  • @spaceink3127
    @spaceink3127 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I noticed that my ram usage is about 24-28gb of my 32gb. When in career mode its uses alot more than just free flight in the same areas. I run on I9 11900k & rtx 3080 on 4k moustly high/medium settings with trees building grass on ultra and terrain/object detail set to 150. When coming in to certain high intensive areas my ram usages goes above 30 and then the stutters until i get the error code and game crashes. I guess it has to do with ram running out. The game runs really smooth on 4k with my GPU and fps set to 60fps and it normally between 50/55 -59fps. And vram uses about 8 as max.
    Probably will do alot better with 64gb ram

  • @737sst
    @737sst หลายเดือนก่อน

    I could not see the FPS numbers in VR-mode, because they were cut off by the upper border of my TV. But I guess it's the same as in 2D, no need for 64GB.

  • @georgefaulk2528
    @georgefaulk2528 หลายเดือนก่อน

    How do I enter Devmode for MSFS 2024?

  • @dtrjones
    @dtrjones หลายเดือนก่อน

    I've been keeping an eye on memory usage, don't think I've gone beyond 18 GB in task manager yet for MSFS 2024. So it has amble of memory spare. I've flown out of custom heathrow airports in A320/A330 and landed a a number of detailed custom airprots and it seems fine. I upgraded to 64 GB anyway before launch because memory is so cheap, around 100 pounds.

  • @SirMLP
    @SirMLP หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    you need to try in VR TAA. DLSS is not good quality

  • @GulfCoastTim
    @GulfCoastTim หลายเดือนก่อน

    Glad you did this. Think ill stay with the 32gb ram for now.

  • @Mitchellms123
    @Mitchellms123 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Hey love the videos can we get some setting videos for 4070 ti super with a meta quest airlink?

  • @gimpau
    @gimpau หลายเดือนก่อน

    Appreciated.

  • @bakzetary3145
    @bakzetary3145 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Thanks for these cool comparisons Steve! The only game I ever found that needs my 64Gigs of Ram are some of my DCS custom missions, (a couple purchased ones too) where I load up a ton of objects on the maps and other flight groups doing a coordinated attack in another part of the map! I've also been closely watching the bandwidth meter to see if I can even use this program on my current internet system. I have heard rumors online that fast jet flying, (500Kts) down low with either urban/suburbs OR Mountainous terrain is not working well for many users. (So sad for that is what I do every time I fly for years now.)

    • @VRFlightSimGuy
      @VRFlightSimGuy  หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I really don't like all the streaming in this sim, it feels like we've gone backwards not forwards when it comes to terrain management. Reminds me of FSX!

  • @sugarsmith645
    @sugarsmith645 หลายเดือนก่อน

    What does it mean on 32Gb system it shows memory usage 37Gb? How is this possible?

  • @bikeguy3034
    @bikeguy3034 23 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Considering I went from 32GB to 64GB for only NZ$200 (my mobo limited to DDR4 so cheap) - worth the cost for smoother play with more headroom.

  • @UmmerFarooq-wx4yo
    @UmmerFarooq-wx4yo หลายเดือนก่อน

    Is the 64gb ram using a lot less bandwith or is that just a fluke?

  • @shenmisheshou7002
    @shenmisheshou7002 12 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I have had my RAM go up to *38.12 GB* peak and seen it average 34GB to 36GB. 13900KF, 4080, 6000mhz CL 30 RAM, running 4K in Ultra. This was just the game running, nothing else..

  • @willbennett1359
    @willbennett1359 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Thanks for your work Steve. I have 500mbps internet hard wired and I still have blurry ground textures, badly. Is that just me?

    • @chelmini_4493
      @chelmini_4493 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Im experiencing the exact same stiation

  • @pantsgaming759
    @pantsgaming759 หลายเดือนก่อน

    i run 4k FSR quality with 16gb ram and it seems to run ok, maybe some textures load in slower when flying low over a city but that also could be my 50mbps internet speed. It is alot more stuttery then msfs 2020 which also could be with the lack of ram. but it works good enough.

  • @jrherita
    @jrherita หลายเดือนก่อน

    VR looks hard limited by CPU?

  • @Macbrowndog
    @Macbrowndog หลายเดือนก่อน

    Good to know we only need 32G Ram. . I have a 13900K , 32G +4090 using an Aero

  • @Y0URGRANDMA
    @Y0URGRANDMA หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    I don't think you even know what you're testing for. An actual test would be a long flight in a varied terrain and monitoring the 1% lows for stutters, not a average framerate test for what is the same speed ram.

    • @VRFlightSimGuy
      @VRFlightSimGuy  หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      This is your lot I'm afraid, I don't have time to do more than this. Plenty of other vids on the interwebs. As you can see, most people here are thankful for this video.

  • @yowie69
    @yowie69 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Confirmed what I always believed.

  • @Adrian-lz5gc
    @Adrian-lz5gc หลายเดือนก่อน

    wait till you start using things like Fenix and PMDG and all the rest, 64gb all day long, I'm sitting usually at 31 currently and not much headroom left

  • @Retset
    @Retset หลายเดือนก่อน

    I have to admit, watching your benchmark numbers, the extra headroom of 64GB does look handy. Otherwise, if remaining at 32GB, I think it's probably time to reboot before playing the sim - just to get a 'clean start'

    • @VRFlightSimGuy
      @VRFlightSimGuy  หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      There is no other way of doing it, you have to turn your PC off to install the extra RAM (unless you are suicidal) :)

    • @Retset
      @Retset หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@VRFlightSimGuy Sorry if not clear; I meant reboot before playing the game, just to get as much free RAM as possible out of the 32GB

  • @Mucker-le6ld
    @Mucker-le6ld หลายเดือนก่อน

    What about a comparison with some hardware most people actually own. Maybe using a 30 series GPU and a CPU from a couple of generations ago?

    • @VRFlightSimGuy
      @VRFlightSimGuy  หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      What kind of operation do you think I run here? I don't have access to tons of different PC systems. I've actually managed to borrow two different PC systems which have arrived today, and I will be testing these to get an optimal level of performance for different users. These things take time. You may also be surprised to know that I'm just a normal guy with a full time job and busy life. So a "please" wouldn't go a miss. Afterall, you are getting all this content for free.

    • @Mucker-le6ld
      @Mucker-le6ld หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@VRFlightSimGuy Wow, pretty angry response. Enjoy your 'normal guy' VR experience with cutting edge tech. Edit: Please

  • @ryanw1433
    @ryanw1433 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Thank you! So it looks like I’m better off getting a 4070ti instead of a 4070 plus upgraded RAM.

  • @StevenKelley
    @StevenKelley หลายเดือนก่อน

    Aftermarket aircraft will most likely push the memory to its limits, all the default aircraft are basic and optimized. Lets see what happens when PMDG updates for 2024 ;)

  • @victorchan4223
    @victorchan4223 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Adding another 32 GB isn't as easy as you think. Not all rams work the same. Some system becomes unstable when using up all 4 dimm slots. Or you have to run your memory much slower than using only 2 ram sticks.

    • @pantsgaming759
      @pantsgaming759 หลายเดือนก่อน

      yep i found this problem out years ago so ive had 2 sticks lying around for years unused lol, its only now im thinking about putting them back in and lowering the speeds. only got 16gb its never been a problem until now.

    • @Avantime
      @Avantime 28 วันที่ผ่านมา

      32GB RAM still have a good used market as that's what most gamers need, sell them instead.

  • @premium3429
    @premium3429 12 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Ok but thats all default. What about with tons of add on scenery and add on planes and mods? What about 1% lows and minimum framerates?

  • @spirimento
    @spirimento 28 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Hey Steve,
    Just curious, why you tell people that they dont need 64gb? First Asobo is clearly stating that 64 is advised.
    Secondary I have seen many screenshots where Msfs is using up to 40gb.
    That means that the sim will use the pagefile of the disk and this has an performance impact. I did a lot of research and can say 100% that the sim is benefiting from more ram.
    Specialy in VR.
    Youre a nice guy and I know you mean well but sometimes you are really missing out.
    I remember when you told the community that Quest was not good and the when you find out how to use it you started seeing it. I am curious when you will change youre opinion on this one. Its really a shame because people thrust upon youre advice. And now you are holding people back from a better experience.
    64GB is not expensive and it is definitely the way to go.
    Ps do a simple test and change youre lod above 200. You will see what happens.
    And yes FS2024 runs perfect with a with 4090 with Ultra settings, lod 300 and TAA.
    Peak memory is 40GB.
    Have a nice one, cheers!

    • @VRFlightSimGuy
      @VRFlightSimGuy  28 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      I don't always get things right, I'm only a flight sim guy just like you. However, everything I initially said about the Quest 3 STILL rings true, it has SDE, the image quality suffers not having a DP and it's the most uncomfortable headset I've ever tried with a stock strap. Regarding this video, I said IF you are a content creator OR user that has lots of background app, then I DO recommend 64gb, but for the casual user, it's a waste of money. With respect, please listen to what I say :D Thanks for the support.

    • @spirimento
      @spirimento 28 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@VRFlightSimGuyHey Steve,
      We all have different opinions thats fine. But youre not just a guy... you do statements about products and people follow this. And thats fine. I heard you very well in what you said in the video. with al respect did you even read what I been trying to tell you about memory usage? A VR user is not an casual user. 64gb is not a waste in VR and in my opnion youre wrong on this one. So people missing out in VR for this video. I love the VR community its already difficult enough to get it working.
      And you do great info for a lot.
      Put we really disagree on this.
      Anyway let the sun shine. Enjoy 2024 and a good weekend 👍

  • @potsmeetkettle
    @potsmeetkettle หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    48gb gang checking in

  • @Cypeq
    @Cypeq 24 วันที่ผ่านมา

    ram isn't aftecting performance much I guess 16gb and ultra is where you'd see a drop but your game clearly surpassess 32 physical and the longer it runs the worse it gets

  • @Eskoxo
    @Eskoxo หลายเดือนก่อน

    guess my order of 64gb kit wont make much difference ah well paid like $100 extra no big deal thanks for letting us know

  • @azur1858
    @azur1858 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    i will try to forget this 😭ridiculus test. i just bought 64 GB for christmas...

  • @pointzeroblack
    @pointzeroblack หลายเดือนก่อน

    Ive matched my VR settings from 2020 to 2024 and im getting worse performance in 2024.

  • @mikegc3816
    @mikegc3816 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Too late for me already bought an extra 32gb

  • @derbybOyzZ
    @derbybOyzZ หลายเดือนก่อน

    48gb should be the next step the industry takes, not 64 imo.

  • @renefeijen5916
    @renefeijen5916 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Just installed 2x2GB DDR5 haha. Don't notice a difference, it was already smooth in VR with low-high settings. I noticed thought that in the Task Manager memory was now occupied 30GB out of 64 GB, and it was lower (cant remember exactly) when I had 32GB installed. So maybe this is good when running other apps also (Navigrap, Little Navmap, Discord, TH-cam/browser etc). I have frames capped at 45 in NVCP, but running motion smoothing in the Varjo Base App in 30 fps.

  • @kevinbrook7033
    @kevinbrook7033 หลายเดือนก่อน

    In November last year I spent £293 on some brand new Corsair 64 GB DDR5 6000Mhz Dominator Titanium ram to replace my old Corsair Dominator 32GB 5200 Mhz kit.
    I now hate you.

  • @StekuVideo
    @StekuVideo หลายเดือนก่อน

    Especially with AMD CPUs 64 GB RAM may perform worse, as such CPUs typically work better with 2 DIMMs vs. 4 DiMMs.

    • @a.b.c.d.e
      @a.b.c.d.e หลายเดือนก่อน

      ? you can go 64GB on 2 DIMMs

  • @eugenebeck9210
    @eugenebeck9210 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Too late! I already upgraded to 64 a week ago just before release!

  • @OrioThyGrim
    @OrioThyGrim หลายเดือนก่อน

    ive got 128g i should be ok >.

  • @LulzSecvirusinvader
    @LulzSecvirusinvader หลายเดือนก่อน

    More is always better... RAM is cheap!

  • @HammieNL
    @HammieNL หลายเดือนก่อน

    I'm still on 16 GB 😂

    • @VRFlightSimGuy
      @VRFlightSimGuy  หลายเดือนก่อน

      How does the sim run?

    • @kaitzackpwong8411
      @kaitzackpwong8411 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@VRFlightSimGuy It runs just fine with a very fast internet connection.

  • @FamilyVideos-sk7cd
    @FamilyVideos-sk7cd หลายเดือนก่อน

    Torture 🤣