I feel like this is a tier list for « which character you should invest in », since in madenning you can’t invest on everyone (you have to share xp, weapons upgrade, sp and emblems). This is why some characters that don’t need investments to be useful should be higher in a general tier list, like Zelkov (just give him Corrin and he is an insane evasion tank and can debuff with Draconic Hex + poison which is very useful for bosses, or just give him the skill without the emblem if you need it one someone else). Of course if you want him to deal damage he’ll be worse than Kagetsu, but that’s not his role.
Boucheron is meant to be a support unit that can be used as a bait to pull units out of formation. He’ll be bulky enough to tank one fight, then support with follow up and whatever supportive passives you want to give him
Boucheron with DLC is one of the best characters in the game. With a Tomahawk +5 Marth engraving and Tiki he reaches 16 BLD fairly fast and doubles everything on maddening with one of the strongest weapons in the game at 1-2 range. He has the best HP and BLD growth of any character in the game and 45% speed growth at base. By level 10 warrior my Boucheron had 70hp 25 speed 25 strength. He is litteraly gaining 14 hp every 10 levels and still gas high defense
DLC and high investment can make build to break anyone which is a fun novelty of this game. I can take that whole statement and use it on Diamant to the same success.
I think of thieves as more of utility or support units than combat units. Yunaka with a Corrin fog machine build can be useful for her but also to boost the avoid of your other allies as well. If all she is doing is boosting your teams avoid by 30% then she really doesn't need strength at all. Plus having a unit that doesn't do much damage be able to use Torrential Roar is helpful so your actual combat units can take advantage of the debuffed enemies or bosses. I personally prefer Yunaka over Zelkov for this since she averages 10-15 more res than him so she is much better at taking mages.
Yunaka's high res is pretty huge for a thief since mages ignore terrain bonuses making them the only enemy type that can consistently hit otherwise elusive covert/fog units. Also that personal crit skill is probably one of the better ones in the game
@@RobComRobCom There are times that you can't kill all the enemies die to how many there are in which case killing one less enemy in exchange for having a more reliable enemy phase is worth it. It was very helpful with all the reinforcement spam in the final chapters, and also for baiting the Corrupted Wyrms
I can agree with this for most parts, some I'd move around a little here and there but mostly this is something I agree with. (It's funny as a lot of the characters I liked on the initial playthrough where some of the stronger ones when I was going for mostly style and personality). If you buff up Rosado a little bit he becomes an absolute nightmare for the enemies to deal with! However I will say, Hortensia has a niche with staves like you mentioned and because of the utility she has with staffs, I'd argue she wouldn't see much combat use in the first place as that would remove what she does well for something her kit isn't made for. Staves can break the game if done right such as with warp and freeze in some areas but I think having all offensive units does well in some areas but not having utility outside of Seadall and maybe a healer who is a Sage can corner you in some situations. This is for Maddening so you will likely have your main game breakers doing most of the work for combat so having someone who can help hold down areas such as health, freezing, entrap, warp, rewarp and even breaking enemies will forever be super useful. And it is a chance thing, but her classes special skill can help save money but saving staff uses in a maddening run which is critical for forging and buying other supplies but does rely on her dex. Like I said, overall I completely agree with this list, very well constructed!
Every tier list I see puts Chloe at or near the top, and all three times I've played my Chloe has sucked ass. I dunno, maybe I'm just unlucky. But I've made her Griffon Knight, Paladin, and Wyvern Knight in each playthrough and she's just been subpar. I actually almost preferred her just as a Griffon Knight with a Flame Lance and mostly healing with a staff since she ended up having higher Magic than Strength.
I honestly thought this at first too but after using her a bit I changed my mind. A +2 Steel Lance gets her a long way and then updating it to a forged Silver later makes her even better. A +5 Silver Lance + the Sigurd ring for momentum fixes her low strength.
She’s an early flier who gets nearly 7 full chapters worth of SP and EXP. Give her a sigurd engraved DLC lance or Steel lance and she will one round quite often Chloé in a Griffon knight will not be doing much damage unless you feed her energy drops - Griffon knight Chloé is for the utility and not the damage. You’re also wasting her mag growth on lance Griffon knight as levin sword is FAR stronger then flame lance. Wyvern fixes her strength growth and gives her weapon triangle. Her speed growth on top of wyvern also means she will usually always be in doubling thresholds Paladin is just a bad class. Calvary units in this game aren’t great unless they’re named Mage knight and Wolf Knight Unironically she’s the best Martial Master in the game if you wish to run one
DLC depends on when you get them. But they can be unlocked at chapater 6-7 so they're jumpis crazy. If you have them with a team you've already built up they ight seem weaker cuz they show up naked compred to your team
I think Panette is broken AF. She is a great Leif user. Just make her a warrior give her a killer bow and a killer axe and she will kill everything, but sword users, in enemy phase. If you upgrade the weapons to +4 and give them an engraving she will pick those weapons over Leif weapons, with the exception of the lance against swords. Also I think that Goldmary and Madeline are better than what you give them credit but I guess that's fair. And I think Hortensia is broken too, she is the best staff used of the game, and that has to count for something.
Pannette can easily break the game too so S rank is Fine. Can easliy invest into a build that goes brrrr which is what I think the entire top half of the list does. Def nuts
Panette with Ike works well too, her personal synergizes with wrath. Have her inherit vantage and she'll destroy most things no problem. And yeah Hortensia and Byleth work well, his high luck increase and divine pulse makes her really consistent.
Giving Anna, Makiah and the hero axe gets her to level 10 easily by the time you get the master seal. Her damage output is decent enough to finish kills after chip damage.
In my opinion Panette is so much better than Kagetsu, she carries harder than him. Boucheron and Clanne seem too low and both Alcryst and Timerra seems to high. Timerra belongs in bottom tier and Alcryst is overall worse than Etie.
My main disagreement with this tier list is that Etie and Alcryst are so far apart. They are basically the same unit however Etie is more reliable with her damage while Alcryst requires lucky Luna procs to match her damage. my only other disagreements are Timerra and Panette. I feel Timerra is a bit overrated because of the same issue I had with Alcryst and for Panette I honestly think her and Pandreo are the two best units in the game. In all my maddening runs all I had to do was reclass her to Warrior and her the Lyn ring and she easily kills most enemies in the game and even being fast enough to double Wolf Knights by the end. In my most recent run Panette with this build and Warrior Etie with Eirika and Speed Taker easily carried my game.
They really aren’t Etie will never be doubling and she is a sitting brick. She’s the definition of glass cannon in this game Alcryst can at least somewhat take a hit since he won’t be doubled, Alcryst can reliably double Alcrysts dex growth is high to where he can work VERY WELL with a killer bow. He’s also the best user of brave bows in the game Alcrysts dex growth is also high enough to where Luna reliably starts procing later in the game, which makes him able to one round units that aren’t fliers. Eties best class also is warrior - which means they have different emblem pairings
And for me I don’t believe timerra is overrated. She fits the tank role better then jade and Louis (and now Marni) Because she doesn’t get doubled, she can double, she has a chance to kill, she has lance access. The only person who fits better for DEF tanking is Goldmary, who still has Res issues that Timerra doesn’t. This is also a game where RNG rigging is possible, meaning inherently proc based units are actually better then they seem to be on paper because you can manipulate the rng.
@@Raydr62 A level 20 Alcryst has 24 Speed and the same level Warrior Etie has 21 so both of them are easily getting doubled endgame by most enemies without the Lyn ring. Add another 10 levels and Alcryst has 29 while Etie has 26, the only benefit Alcryst has at this point is he doubles Great Knights and Etie doesn't. Etie after 30 levels of promotion has 56 attack (36 strength+ Silver Bow +5), enemy Halberdiers in endgame have 35 defense so she does 21 damage or 42 with max speed taker. Alcryst at the same level has 32 attack (23 strength + Brave Bow +5), he does 0x2 with no Luna, has a 39% chance to do 14, a 15% chance to do 28, and with Lyn ring has a 5% chance to do 42 and a 0.02% chance to do 56. So Alcryst has a 5% chance to match Etie in damage output if they both double. Reliability is more important in maddening than a low chance of more damage. Also Alcryst like this has a crit rate of 19% meaning the odds of getting a Luna crit is 7% per hit which is still unreliable.
@@Raydr62 Etie at promoted 20+10 has 26 speed + 10 from Speed Taker +5 from Lyn ring +5 from Mulagir + 4 From meal and tonic is 50 speed and Wolf Knights have 45. She was my third highest leveled unit after Panette and Pandreo so not overfed at all.
Etie should be in bad Tier she is not good whatsoever. Objectively Boucheron is 100% better. All she has over him is a little bit of Str growth but as u say Str is easy to fix in this game. Her Bulk is not existent. She dies to a breeze. Her Defense, Res and HP is so bad it's laughable. Even crap Alfred is better. Etie I can never see made into a carry not even with Lyn who fixes speed, and this is on Maddening fixed growths because it removes randomness in levels and makes judging units objectively better.
I feel like this is a tier list for « which character you should invest in », since in madenning you can’t invest on everyone (you have to share xp, weapons upgrade, sp and emblems).
This is why some characters that don’t need investments to be useful should be higher in a general tier list, like Zelkov (just give him Corrin and he is an insane evasion tank and can debuff with Draconic Hex + poison which is very useful for bosses, or just give him the skill without the emblem if you need it one someone else). Of course if you want him to deal damage he’ll be worse than Kagetsu, but that’s not his role.
Boucheron is meant to be a support unit that can be used as a bait to pull units out of formation. He’ll be bulky enough to tank one fight, then support with follow up and whatever supportive passives you want to give him
His only real issue is that he competes for exp with Carries
@@JCDGAMING01 and his stats are lower than most the cast.
@@sainaaron1595 his stats don’t matter that much if you’re using him for his role as a support unit
Boucheron with DLC is one of the best characters in the game. With a Tomahawk +5 Marth engraving and Tiki he reaches 16 BLD fairly fast and doubles everything on maddening with one of the strongest weapons in the game at 1-2 range. He has the best HP and BLD growth of any character in the game and 45% speed growth at base. By level 10 warrior my Boucheron had 70hp 25 speed 25 strength. He is litteraly gaining 14 hp every 10 levels and still gas high defense
DLC and high investment can make build to break anyone which is a fun novelty of this game.
I can take that whole statement and use it on Diamant to the same success.
@@sainaaron1595 fair enough but not many units have high bld and speed growths to make a Tomahawk +5 doubling consistently
@@Ginodesruisseaux984 anyone with speedtaker
@@sainaaron1595 not on maddening no speedtaker won’t help much with a 16 weight Tomahawk and 8 BLD
I’d like to see a emblem tier list or which is the best pair for each character, I’d think it would be neat
Could be fun
I think of thieves as more of utility or support units than combat units. Yunaka with a Corrin fog machine build can be useful for her but also to boost the avoid of your other allies as well. If all she is doing is boosting your teams avoid by 30% then she really doesn't need strength at all. Plus having a unit that doesn't do much damage be able to use Torrential Roar is helpful so your actual combat units can take advantage of the debuffed enemies or bosses. I personally prefer Yunaka over Zelkov for this since she averages 10-15 more res than him so she is much better at taking mages.
Yunaka's high res is pretty huge for a thief since mages ignore terrain bonuses making them the only enemy type that can consistently hit otherwise elusive covert/fog units. Also that personal crit skill is probably one of the better ones in the game
But do you even need that utility? I would rather kill all the enemies with non thieves than have my units more dodgy for counter attack. I
@@RobComRobCom There are times that you can't kill all the enemies die to how many there are in which case killing one less enemy in exchange for having a more reliable enemy phase is worth it. It was very helpful with all the reinforcement spam in the final chapters, and also for baiting the Corrupted Wyrms
I can agree with this for most parts, some I'd move around a little here and there but mostly this is something I agree with. (It's funny as a lot of the characters I liked on the initial playthrough where some of the stronger ones when I was going for mostly style and personality). If you buff up Rosado a little bit he becomes an absolute nightmare for the enemies to deal with! However I will say, Hortensia has a niche with staves like you mentioned and because of the utility she has with staffs, I'd argue she wouldn't see much combat use in the first place as that would remove what she does well for something her kit isn't made for. Staves can break the game if done right such as with warp and freeze in some areas but I think having all offensive units does well in some areas but not having utility outside of Seadall and maybe a healer who is a Sage can corner you in some situations. This is for Maddening so you will likely have your main game breakers doing most of the work for combat so having someone who can help hold down areas such as health, freezing, entrap, warp, rewarp and even breaking enemies will forever be super useful. And it is a chance thing, but her classes special skill can help save money but saving staff uses in a maddening run which is critical for forging and buying other supplies but does rely on her dex. Like I said, overall I completely agree with this list, very well constructed!
Take a shot every time he says Kagetsu.
wasted 5 min in
Timera is the best character in the game. Her tanking and damage are insane
I agree but Bonded shield flier death ball is more broken.
did you see garbage green from PokemonChallenges? a tier list on that would be so cool
Every tier list I see puts Chloe at or near the top, and all three times I've played my Chloe has sucked ass. I dunno, maybe I'm just unlucky. But I've made her Griffon Knight, Paladin, and Wyvern Knight in each playthrough and she's just been subpar. I actually almost preferred her just as a Griffon Knight with a Flame Lance and mostly healing with a staff since she ended up having higher Magic than Strength.
I honestly thought this at first too but after using her a bit I changed my mind. A +2 Steel Lance gets her a long way and then updating it to a forged Silver later makes her even better. A +5 Silver Lance + the Sigurd ring for momentum fixes her low strength.
She’s an early flier who gets nearly 7 full chapters worth of SP and EXP. Give her a sigurd engraved DLC lance or Steel lance and she will one round quite often
Chloé in a Griffon knight will not be doing much damage unless you feed her energy drops - Griffon knight Chloé is for the utility and not the damage. You’re also wasting her mag growth on lance Griffon knight as levin sword is FAR stronger then flame lance.
Wyvern fixes her strength growth and gives her weapon triangle. Her speed growth on top of wyvern also means she will usually always be in doubling thresholds
Paladin is just a bad class. Calvary units in this game aren’t great unless they’re named Mage knight and Wolf Knight
Unironically she’s the best Martial Master in the game if you wish to run one
Remember people tier maddening based off fixed growths
chloe carries hard early game. once her strength falls off you can make her a staffbot or dodgetank.
with dlc she can get lance power 3.
Give Chloe Sigurd early and a plus 3 steel Lance and she destroys the early game
Maybe it is because I did the DLC after chapter 16 on my other run, but Nel felt super weak for me.
DLC depends on when you get them. But they can be unlocked at chapater 6-7 so they're jumpis crazy. If you have them with a team you've already built up they ight seem weaker cuz they show up naked compred to your team
I think Panette is broken AF. She is a great Leif user. Just make her a warrior give her a killer bow and a killer axe and she will kill everything, but sword users, in enemy phase. If you upgrade the weapons to +4 and give them an engraving she will pick those weapons over Leif weapons, with the exception of the lance against swords.
Also I think that Goldmary and Madeline are better than what you give them credit but I guess that's fair. And I think Hortensia is broken too, she is the best staff used of the game, and that has to count for something.
Pannette can easily break the game too so S rank is Fine. Can easliy invest into a build that goes brrrr which is what I think the entire top half of the list does. Def nuts
Panette with Ike works well too, her personal synergizes with wrath. Have her inherit vantage and she'll destroy most things no problem. And yeah Hortensia and Byleth work well, his high luck increase and divine pulse makes her really consistent.
Giving Anna, Makiah and the hero axe gets her to level 10 easily by the time you get the master seal. Her damage output is decent enough to finish kills after chip damage.
so with investment
Framme has good support characters too
I’m trying to force Boucheron into Mage Cannoneer. At first level in the class he sucks. But by level 7 or so he’s consistently hitting venom shot
Bad tier list Sommie isnt in SSS tier
hortencia s tier.
i prefer panette to kaigetsu. hits like a truck
anna is s tier.
jean should be lower.
Seperating Anna and Jean that much is funny
@@sainaaron1595 anna makes money. thats free tonics right there
In my opinion Panette is so much better than Kagetsu, she carries harder than him.
Boucheron and Clanne seem too low and both Alcryst and Timerra seems to high. Timerra belongs in bottom tier and Alcryst is overall worse than Etie.
My main disagreement with this tier list is that Etie and Alcryst are so far apart. They are basically the same unit however Etie is more reliable with her damage while Alcryst requires lucky Luna procs to match her damage. my only other disagreements are Timerra and Panette. I feel Timerra is a bit overrated because of the same issue I had with Alcryst and for Panette I honestly think her and Pandreo are the two best units in the game. In all my maddening runs all I had to do was reclass her to Warrior and her the Lyn ring and she easily kills most enemies in the game and even being fast enough to double Wolf Knights by the end. In my most recent run Panette with this build and Warrior Etie with Eirika and Speed Taker easily carried my game.
They really aren’t
Etie will never be doubling and she is a sitting brick. She’s the definition of glass cannon in this game
Alcryst can at least somewhat take a hit since he won’t be doubled, Alcryst can reliably double
Alcrysts dex growth is high to where he can work VERY WELL with a killer bow. He’s also the best user of brave bows in the game
Alcrysts dex growth is also high enough to where Luna reliably starts procing later in the game, which makes him able to one round units that aren’t fliers.
Eties best class also is warrior - which means they have different emblem pairings
And for me I don’t believe timerra is overrated. She fits the tank role better then jade and Louis (and now Marni) Because she doesn’t get doubled, she can double, she has a chance to kill, she has lance access.
The only person who fits better for DEF tanking is Goldmary, who still has Res issues that Timerra doesn’t.
This is also a game where RNG rigging is possible, meaning inherently proc based units are actually better then they seem to be on paper because you can manipulate the rng.
if your Etie reached the doubling threshold for wolf knights in end game it’s because she was severely over fed
@@Raydr62 A level 20 Alcryst has 24 Speed and the same level Warrior Etie has 21 so both of them are easily getting doubled endgame by most enemies without the Lyn ring. Add another 10 levels and Alcryst has 29 while Etie has 26, the only benefit Alcryst has at this point is he doubles Great Knights and Etie doesn't. Etie after 30 levels of promotion has 56 attack (36 strength+ Silver Bow +5), enemy Halberdiers in endgame have 35 defense so she does 21 damage or 42 with max speed taker. Alcryst at the same level has 32 attack (23 strength + Brave Bow +5), he does 0x2 with no Luna, has a 39% chance to do 14, a 15% chance to do 28, and with Lyn ring has a 5% chance to do 42 and a 0.02% chance to do 56. So Alcryst has a 5% chance to match Etie in damage output if they both double. Reliability is more important in maddening than a low chance of more damage. Also Alcryst like this has a crit rate of 19% meaning the odds of getting a Luna crit is 7% per hit which is still unreliable.
@@Raydr62 Etie at promoted 20+10 has 26 speed + 10 from Speed Taker +5 from Lyn ring +5 from Mulagir + 4 From meal and tonic is 50 speed and Wolf Knights have 45. She was my third highest leveled unit after Panette and Pandreo so not overfed at all.
Etie should be in bad Tier she is not good whatsoever. Objectively Boucheron is 100% better. All she has over him is a little bit of Str growth but as u say Str is easy to fix in this game. Her Bulk is not existent. She dies to a breeze. Her Defense, Res and HP is so bad it's laughable. Even crap Alfred is better. Etie I can never see made into a carry not even with Lyn who fixes speed, and this is on Maddening fixed growths because it removes randomness in levels and makes judging units objectively better.
I’d like to see a emblem tier list or which is the best pair for each character, I’d think it would be neat