In addition to letting Chloe double a few select early game targets, the slim lance is actually really good for Alfred's in chapter 5. Alfred starts at 6 build, 6 speed. While he only takes 1 slowdown from the iron lance, it's in important slowdown. Give him a slim lance and speed+ bond ring, he'll hit at least 7 speed. That's what it takes to not get doubled by the cavaliers in this level. Vander and Boucheron can pull the same feat with a compact axe. Vander can actually hit 9 speed this way, which means he won't get doubled by sword fighters. With iron weapons, the cavaliers can defeat Etie in 1 round of combat, Vander in 3, Louis in.... 8, everybody else in 2. With these tweaks, Vander takes 5 rounds to kill, Boucheron and Alfred take 3. Plus, they can outpace damage taken this way with vulneraries or healing from Framme. Vander can actually hit 9 speed and stop being doubled by sword fighters up through Anna's paralogue with a compact axe and speed bond ring. The slim sword however, is legit useless. The slim lance is important for a couple chapters. The compact axe is easily Vander's best weapon, and has some legit use for Boucheron. The quirk with the flame lance being substantially worse than the Levin Sword I've been noticing pop up in some other areas. The Killer Lance for example, is notably worse than its sword and axe peers. Mt Hit Crit Wt Sword 9 75 30 10 Lance 7 75 30 9 Axe 11 65 30 12 It's not strictly worse in this case, but it's weird that it's 1 point lighter and 2 points weaker than the sword. It really seems like somebody mixed them up. On crit, the lance deals 6 less damage than the sword, 12 less than the axe, while just barely being lighter than the sword. I'd only recommend it for lance locked units.
I'd also argue that Compact Axe is good for training a Jean you change into an Axe unit, because it has low weight and is cheap to +5 and give 10 might. I actually really champion the Compact Axe as better than the Iron Axe early game because of its accuracy.
Venomous the donation one is the only non daggers weapon to posion and also gives you the strongest possible overdrive . Still not worth it but absolutely worth a meme run on some one with Hector.
Man I wish Flame Lance had less weight. I want to make so much Royal Knight classes but am forced to run Build +4. Javelin love lets go! So good on Lapis and alear.
I also played the hell out of SoM in 3rd grade. Funnily enough, Sword, Spear, and Axe are probably the best weapons in that game, but I always liked the knuckles.
Certain lances are really good on a halberdier because of Pincer Attack. For example, a halberdier with a ridersbane is one of the best options for one-rounding wolf knights. Brave lance can auto-quad on a halberdier, making it a really good boss delete button, especially when paired with lance power and/or Eirika. I guess Venomous could probably be useful on a halberdier too, but it's too expensive so I've never actually gotten it. Sadly I don't think pincer attack works from 2 range, which means Brionac and spear are still just worse than javelin. In a vacuum I understand your argument for flame lance, but I just can't think of a scenario where I'd ever use flame lance over levin sword. Any class with good enough magic to realistically use flame lance (e.g. mage knight, griffin) can just go with the sword variant instead. I guess royal knight is the only one that doesn't have that option, but royal knight is kinda meh anyway imo, so it's not worth reclassing anyone to that, and it's honestly probably best to reclass Mauvier OUT of it.
Flame Lance is A tier is s hot take (heh) imo. It's so weak and so heavy. The only classes that realistically benefits from it are Lance Griffon and Royal Knight. If you want to go magic griffon, why not go swords when the objectively insanely better Levin Sword is right there? And Royal Knight is a very niche class not many people want to go into. Glad to see someone else thinks Javalins > Spear in Engage. A Javalin+4 is cheap and has 10 Mt, 9 Wt compared to a Spears 12 Mt and crazy high 15 Wt. And the Javalin +4 would have 15 more hit as well.
@@IcedCoffeeGaming Lance power + speedtaker + chrom ring on Gryphon Knight chole absolutely slaps. Even the big ol dragons/lizard things will get 1 rounded by this combo, and even potentially before they can counter back
Fensalir Louis is really good for the early game I noticed. Get someone who can take damage from enemies safely, and the -2 damage on the enemies that survive makes it much safer for the rest of your team to take them out
I'm relatively sure all the joke/candy weapons are slightly stronger and heavier than their iron counterparts but weaker and lighter than steel, problem is you can't upgrade them so a +1 iron is just better
If you want to player phase with smash weapons, just have that character stack Avoid, so when enemies attack you first they always miss. One of my favorite things to do with those weapons. It'd be less of a meme though.
@@HAVIC101XXX Yep. That's what I do when I build Alear around using Houses Unite every turn, because you have to run down the engage counter with the Raging Storm combat art, which uses Aymr, to make it work.
Where's the Reparailles? Isn't that the one you get from the well? I remember you thought it was good when you did the Well review video Edit: Nevermind I just got to the end
I think Flame Lances are balanced to be worse than Levin swords, mostly because the lance weapon type has other 1-2 range weapons. And Swords don’t. It should at least weigh the same though imo. Also it has 10 less hit too.
in defense of slim lance, it's really good early game if you don't use feh weapons, it's practically free to +1, leaving it weightless and 1 mt behind iron lance, cheap to +3 and it turns into a really lightweight iron lance, useful for doubling on chloe early game
With Venemous on dlc it’s S tier. You put Quick Riposte on the unit and gold is no issue. It doubles every time. The Brionaic might be a bit better though cause it’s 1-2 range the build wouldn’t be an issue. You would actually run no speed and all damage/tank mods with hector emblem or QR with a lance power. You could go str/dex with lance power 5 & hector emblem then you go to town.
I use brionac on my chloe and she just shreds everything with it I did give her build +4 or 5 I don’t know what the max thing is that you get from leif
Killer lance is a wo dao with 1 more mt and 15 less hit. It has more crit but the killing egde/axe are so much better. I always sell Amber's killer lance immediately.
You should do a genderlocked run. All male characters or all female characters. It’ll change your perspective on characters like Louis. A lot of units are viable but the ease of use for characters like Chloe overshadow them
@@SphealTV He is, he hits like a truck and only takes damage from magic. He trivializes everything from knives to axes. But I guess since he can’t be in a bonded shield I must be coping
Spear is great if your unit has the build for it. I tend to level a unit up who will use a spear as a berseker for the STR / HP / Build and you can argue it belongs on a Goldmary General or something like that. (With Lyn). Perhaps anything with Lyn can run it to be honest.
Only thing I'd change is Flame Lance to C, hell maybe even D ngl Worse Mt/Weight/Hit than Levin (why did they do this lol)making Sword Griffin Chloe better if you want magic damage, it's too heavy none of its users can double without help, late availability without forging (not that anybody can use it early on) Not to mention there's usually not that many armor units so just have your actual mages deal with them with almost always a guaranteed double
Hi, I do have a request please, do you mind to do guide how to clear xenologue DLC 4 ? I really have shame on me, because I'm not able to clear it in hard difficulty, I do now normal one and I heard that some players who often play maddening are not able to clear the final map of xenologue, what about you ? Thanks by advance :)
Venomous has the same use case as Silver Greatlance: being engage attacks. Is the availability alone enough to separate the two by that many tiers, or is it the limited class options for using it? I noticed you didn’t mention ranks on the weapons but they do affect the classes you can use. I think that affects mainly things like Brionac that are limited to Halberdier or units with innate Lance proficiency on specific classes. Silver Greatlance as well since that can’t go on things like hero or Wyvern Knight (unless innate Lance proficiency)
Maybe if they moved the +crit from steel to silver then it would be more balanced. A mid-game weapon shouldn’t overshadow a late-game weapon in my opinion.
The only use case I found for the silver great lance was on chapter 1 of the xenologue. My timerra took no damage and could retaliate and 1-shot the wolfs pretty consistently. Since she doesn’t have sandstorm at this point in the xenologue, I found it to be a good way to clear a large number of enemies on enemy phase.
I have an idea to rebalance lances. Spear and Brionac should be heavier by like 2 or 3 just in case anyone could wield them without losing speed. You really never know.
All this complaining about weight and doubling, sounds like some one doesn't use general Louis. Brionac + ike + vantage++ make Louis a critical threat on enemy phase at both melee and range. His most used lance for most of the game was the silver greatlance, with his hp and def he could tank doubles even from mages and one shot them, though admittedly he doesn't take them so well after ch 22 so we gave him the brave lance to try to kill mages before they counter but with 55 def with ike and 73 hp there in no physical unit I fear, is what I want to say but these guys are charging at you with like 71 atk, goddamn!
Are you sure you played maddening difficulty ? because they are some weapons in your tier are very high but they literally don't do any damage on enemy mid to late game like the javelin for example it's damage is b@#£S×÷=t even if it's fast or make you dodge things or fast the damage isn't working on maddening difficulty I'm currently in chapter 23
Javelin is S tier with Lance Power 5, without it, maybe B/A depending on unit/STR. Lance Power on Jav + Doubling is +20 damage. The Javelin is cheap to upgrade and is light so any fast unit can take advantage of it.
What we really want is a maddening Sommie outfit tier list breakdown
Top hat is S tier. Sommie is a distinguished....shrine guardian thing.
I'm more of a sunglasses and a tasteful ascot kind of guy (For the little squish, not for me)
I like the eyebrows because it makes him look like Puppycat
I really like the bold eyebrows 😌
Flame lance really does need a weight decrease. It's heavier than the damn Hurricane Axe. How the hell did that happen?
And does less damage than the Levin sword.
In addition to letting Chloe double a few select early game targets, the slim lance is actually really good for Alfred's in chapter 5.
Alfred starts at 6 build, 6 speed. While he only takes 1 slowdown from the iron lance, it's in important slowdown.
Give him a slim lance and speed+ bond ring, he'll hit at least 7 speed. That's what it takes to not get doubled by the cavaliers in this level.
Vander and Boucheron can pull the same feat with a compact axe. Vander can actually hit 9 speed this way, which means he won't get doubled by sword fighters.
With iron weapons, the cavaliers can defeat Etie in 1 round of combat, Vander in 3, Louis in.... 8, everybody else in 2. With these tweaks, Vander takes 5 rounds to kill, Boucheron and Alfred take 3. Plus, they can outpace damage taken this way with vulneraries or healing from Framme.
Vander can actually hit 9 speed and stop being doubled by sword fighters up through Anna's paralogue with a compact axe and speed bond ring.
The slim sword however, is legit useless. The slim lance is important for a couple chapters. The compact axe is easily Vander's best weapon, and has some legit use for Boucheron.
The quirk with the flame lance being substantially worse than the Levin Sword I've been noticing pop up in some other areas. The Killer Lance for example, is notably worse than its sword and axe peers.
Mt Hit Crit Wt
Sword 9 75 30 10
Lance 7 75 30 9
Axe 11 65 30 12
It's not strictly worse in this case, but it's weird that it's 1 point lighter and 2 points weaker than the sword. It really seems like somebody mixed them up. On crit, the lance deals 6 less damage than the sword, 12 less than the axe, while just barely being lighter than the sword. I'd only recommend it for lance locked units.
I'd also argue that Compact Axe is good for training a Jean you change into an Axe unit, because it has low weight and is cheap to +5 and give 10 might. I actually really champion the Compact Axe as better than the Iron Axe early game because of its accuracy.
Spears were always my favorite weapon growing up. It's great to see games not leave them behind swords
Venomous the donation one is the only non daggers weapon to posion and also gives you the strongest possible overdrive . Still not worth it but absolutely worth a meme run on some one with Hector.
Man I wish Flame Lance had less weight. I want to make so much Royal Knight classes but am forced to run Build +4.
Javelin love lets go! So good on Lapis and alear.
I'll never forgive flame lance for making Mauvier look weak
like the killing edge making guy look top tier in fe7
Oh boy, the Axe tier list is going to be pretty fun.
So S tier is just Killer Axe and Tomahawk?
Always has been.
Secret of Mana?! You dude are indeed a man of culture 👏 keep up the good content
I also played the hell out of SoM in 3rd grade. Funnily enough, Sword, Spear, and Axe are probably the best weapons in that game, but I always liked the knuckles.
Certain lances are really good on a halberdier because of Pincer Attack. For example, a halberdier with a ridersbane is one of the best options for one-rounding wolf knights. Brave lance can auto-quad on a halberdier, making it a really good boss delete button, especially when paired with lance power and/or Eirika. I guess Venomous could probably be useful on a halberdier too, but it's too expensive so I've never actually gotten it. Sadly I don't think pincer attack works from 2 range, which means Brionac and spear are still just worse than javelin.
In a vacuum I understand your argument for flame lance, but I just can't think of a scenario where I'd ever use flame lance over levin sword. Any class with good enough magic to realistically use flame lance (e.g. mage knight, griffin) can just go with the sword variant instead. I guess royal knight is the only one that doesn't have that option, but royal knight is kinda meh anyway imo, so it's not worth reclassing anyone to that, and it's honestly probably best to reclass Mauvier OUT of it.
Let's see a tier list for each weapon type (including the mage cannoneer weapon)!😄
Flame Lance is A tier is s hot take (heh) imo. It's so weak and so heavy. The only classes that realistically benefits from it are Lance Griffon and Royal Knight. If you want to go magic griffon, why not go swords when the objectively insanely better Levin Sword is right there? And Royal Knight is a very niche class not many people want to go into.
Glad to see someone else thinks Javalins > Spear in Engage. A Javalin+4 is cheap and has 10 Mt, 9 Wt compared to a Spears 12 Mt and crazy high 15 Wt. And the Javalin +4 would have 15 more hit as well.
Lance Power/unit snowballing allow it to hit very hard while targeting res. For general use it's C tier
@@IcedCoffeeGaming Lance power + speedtaker + chrom ring on Gryphon Knight chole absolutely slaps. Even the big ol dragons/lizard things will get 1 rounded by this combo, and even potentially before they can counter back
Fensalir Louis is really good for the early game I noticed. Get someone who can take damage from enemies safely, and the -2 damage on the enemies that survive makes it much safer for the rest of your team to take them out
I'm relatively sure all the joke/candy weapons are slightly stronger and heavier than their iron counterparts but weaker and lighter than steel, problem is you can't upgrade them so a +1 iron is just better
Dude, just started my first maddening run and ngl I'm really enjoying your content and gameplay vids :) plus your voice is audible chocolate hnggg
One of these days I'm going to run Fogado with Hold Out and Holy Stance player phasing smash weapons for the meme.
If you want to player phase with smash weapons, just have that character stack Avoid, so when enemies attack you first they always miss. One of my favorite things to do with those weapons. It'd be less of a meme though.
@@HAVIC101XXX Yep. That's what I do when I build Alear around using Houses Unite every turn, because you have to run down the engage counter with the Raging Storm combat art, which uses Aymr, to make it work.
Brioniac with +might/weight engraving paired with hector for guaranteed double can get funny
Where's the Reparailles? Isn't that the one you get from the well? I remember you thought it was good when you did the Well review video
Edit: Nevermind I just got to the end
I love reparailles. I didn't have the heroes weapons until wave 4 dlc and reparailles worked wonders on Chloe 🥰
did I miss something or was the wishing well spear not mentioned? the represailles probably is the best spear in the game
Definitely not. It's way too expensive to upgrade for a maddening run
@@Mavuika_Gyaru good to know. couldn't find any info on it's upgrade cost and didn't play with it yet.
@@CRO-Palacinke-D.C it's a great spear might to weight ratio wise, but the cost is too much past +3
Another great vid! I wanna watch the other vids but at the same time i don’t want to be spoiled till i play the xenologue !
I think Flame Lances are balanced to be worse than Levin swords, mostly because the lance weapon type has other 1-2 range weapons. And Swords don’t. It should at least weigh the same though imo.
Also it has 10 less hit too.
in defense of slim lance, it's really good early game if you don't use feh weapons, it's practically free to +1, leaving it weightless and 1 mt behind iron lance, cheap to +3 and it turns into a really lightweight iron lance, useful for doubling on chloe early game
Coffee Nation RISE haha
With Venemous on dlc it’s S tier. You put Quick Riposte on the unit and gold is no issue. It doubles every time. The Brionaic might be a bit better though cause it’s 1-2 range the build wouldn’t be an issue. You would actually run no speed and all damage/tank mods with hector emblem or QR with a lance power. You could go str/dex with lance power 5 & hector emblem then you go to town.
My favorite weapon, Lances. The only thing that really surprised me was Fire Lance in A.
I use brionac on my chloe and she just shreds everything with it I did give her build +4 or 5 I don’t know what the max thing is that you get from leif
Killer lance is a wo dao with 1 more mt and 15 less hit. It has more crit but the killing egde/axe are so much better. I always sell Amber's killer lance immediately.
Timerra sweep.
My comment has nothing to do with the Lance Tier List but I hope she get's mentioned.
Gm ☕☕
You should do a genderlocked run. All male characters or all female characters. It’ll change your perspective on characters like Louis. A lot of units are viable but the ease of use for characters like Chloe overshadow them
Trust me Louis is good if you cut out half of the other units copium
@@SphealTV He is, he hits like a truck and only takes damage from magic. He trivializes everything from knives to axes. But I guess since he can’t be in a bonded shield I must be coping
Spear is great if your unit has the build for it.
I tend to level a unit up who will use a spear as a berseker for the STR / HP / Build and you can argue it belongs on a Goldmary General or something like that.
(With Lyn).
Perhaps anything with Lyn can run it to be honest.
My boi Bouch with that build and speed can use that 1 to 2 lance no problem
Only thing I'd change is Flame Lance to C, hell maybe even D ngl
Worse Mt/Weight/Hit than Levin (why did they do this lol)making Sword Griffin Chloe better if you want magic damage, it's too heavy none of its users can double without help, late availability without forging (not that anybody can use it early on)
Not to mention there's usually not that many armor units so just have your actual mages deal with them with almost always a guaranteed double
The upgraded Iron lance has been great for me on Chloe.
He doesn’t miss
Hi, I do have a request please, do you mind to do guide how to clear xenologue DLC 4 ? I really have shame on me, because I'm not able to clear it in hard difficulty, I do now normal one and I heard that some players who often play maddening are not able to clear the final map of xenologue, what about you ? Thanks by advance :)
Never took you as a stabber 🥵
Iced coffee nation sir
Where's the Well Tutorial Lance?
Blades on sticks, who comes out on top?
Maddening playthrough sommie only
Venomous has the same use case as Silver Greatlance: being engage attacks. Is the availability alone enough to separate the two by that many tiers, or is it the limited class options for using it?
I noticed you didn’t mention ranks on the weapons but they do affect the classes you can use. I think that affects mainly things like Brionac that are limited to Halberdier or units with innate Lance proficiency on specific classes. Silver Greatlance as well since that can’t go on things like hero or Wyvern Knight (unless innate Lance proficiency)
It’s bottom because the cost to get the weapon itself is to high to be worth it
Maybe if they moved the +crit from steel to silver then it would be more balanced. A mid-game weapon shouldn’t overshadow a late-game weapon in my opinion.
The only use case I found for the silver great lance was on chapter 1 of the xenologue. My timerra took no damage and could retaliate and 1-shot the wolfs pretty consistently. Since she doesn’t have sandstorm at this point in the xenologue, I found it to be a good way to clear a large number of enemies on enemy phase.
Are you cold brewed iced coffee, just regular coffee that's been chilled, a piping hot cup that someone threw ice into? Decaf?
Cold brewed or chilled are good for me : )
lances are cool
I have an idea to rebalance lances. Spear and Brionac should be heavier by like 2 or 3 just in case anyone could wield them without losing speed. You really never know.
wot
I have to believe you’re pronouncing Timerra’s name incorrectly as some kind of inside joke.
All this complaining about weight and doubling, sounds like some one doesn't use general Louis. Brionac + ike + vantage++ make Louis a critical threat on enemy phase at both melee and range. His most used lance for most of the game was the silver greatlance, with his hp and def he could tank doubles even from mages and one shot them, though admittedly he doesn't take them so well after ch 22 so we gave him the brave lance to try to kill mages before they counter but with 55 def with ike and 73 hp there in no physical unit I fear, is what I want to say but these guys are charging at you with like 71 atk, goddamn!
Are you sure you played maddening difficulty ? because they are some weapons in your tier are very high but they literally don't do any damage on enemy mid to late game like the javelin for example it's damage is b@#£S×÷=t even if it's fast or make you dodge things or fast the damage isn't working on maddening difficulty I'm currently in chapter 23
Javelin is S tier with Lance Power 5, without it, maybe B/A depending on unit/STR. Lance Power on Jav + Doubling is +20 damage. The Javelin is cheap to upgrade and is light so any fast unit can take advantage of it.
@@IcedCoffeeGaming I see
Could anyone tell me please: what is the best characters for halberdier class?
What about “insidia”the dlc lance ?
Nvm i saw at the end lol 😅
Wait what happened to nel's lance?
Soo.. how would you tier the well lance. You tiered the well axe but not the lance
Low S if upgrading it high