This is why HOUNDSTONE was BANNED in Pokemon Scarlet and Violet!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
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Last Respect Houndstone is insanely strong. The more pokemon faint, the strong it becomes. Today we use Houndstone not on sand but with fluffy! Houndstone might have been banned just today but I had to try it out in Pokemon Scarlet and Violet OU before it moved on to Ubers.
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asfgerthrrth Enjoy!
I think it's a shame, because Houndstone would have been a good lower tier mon. A bulky ghost type with fluffy is pretty good.
Prob getting unbanned when the hisuian forms come out and then they just ban the move.
@@lostnoire2469 probably, yeah
Maybe once the meta settles it will be unbanned
They just need to ban the move
Sheep.
Love the creativity in the moves and abilities this gen from gamefreak, makes it so much more fun even if half of it would get banned
I feel like most of these concepts though have been thought about but I like how they are used here at least.
And the pokemon designs are fire. Now, if they could stop making 2009 Wii games and calling them "Pokemon" thatd be amazing.
@@itscoolthough419
I agree with you so much. For the past few games I've been admiring the new pokemon and human designs but avoiding the games. Arceus is the only game I've played since alpha sapphire. Only played with the pokemon on showdown.
The way they fumbled scarlet and violet is just...really sad. I should find it funny but I can't. I just feel a deep disappointment bro
@@djdragondrawer9339 for me it's the performance other than that I found the game and story very fun
@@djdragondrawer9339 the new designs for the mons for the past few gens have been so good even tho the games are so bad
Why are they so quick to ban the whole mon when it's clear that the prime issue is Last Respects? I must have missed something but that seems like a kneejerk reaction. How can you make a snap decision like that within 2 days?
Flutter mane is fucking unreasonable and it's good that it's gone but smogon is so adamant to avoid complex bans whenever possible yet for years they're like "you can only use baton pass on a pokemon with a single boosting move that boosts one stat one stage on tuesdays" and shit
Its clear theyrw a bunch of amateurs. They dragged thebwhole melmetal shit out. But already have bans for stuff wirjin 2 days
The baton pass thing is exactly why they dont do complex bans anymore, or at least not as often. They consider gen 5 rulings as a black mark and want to do everything to avoid repeats.
Hello Sleep Clause :) U said Complexe ban ? They literaly create a mecanic to balance the statu but "THEY DON'T WANT COMPLEXE BAN"
it's cause smogon would rather ban stuff rather than adapt
@@Random-tg9fc sleep clause was unfortunately necessary. It reduced the game to a coinflip of whichever player moved first in a speed tie or drastically changed their set to include chesto or lum berries. The lead smeargle or other spore/sleep user could even run focus sash to get a second attempt. Sleep still is one of the most powerful strats in the game after the Pokemon company itself had to step in and alter it EVERY GENERATION
just wait until Basculegion gets added. It has Swift Swim (or Adaptability if you're feeling cheeky) PLUS STAB Last Respects
And if terastalyzing sticks around...
Instead of banning just make it illegal to have the ability and the movectogether
Adaptability on webs sounds really fucked
@@vaughnelliott711 not complex bans man, banning a combination if two things will never be done again
@@vaughnelliott711 Complex bans are a can of worms that nobody wants to open again, that's why they aren't done anymore
Houndstone is kind of mid, Last Respect is 100000% the reason it got banned.
I think Smog should've ban the move instead.
Flutter Mane is insane, powercreeps virtually any sp attacker like Gengar and Alakazam.
tbh, smogon kinda wants to not use "complex bans", but once home comes out and basculegion gets here, things will change. see it that way, fishous rend was only broken on dracovish, not arctovish, so dracovish got banned. last respect is only broken on houndstone (only user but besides the point) so houndstone is banned. once home releases basculegion they will both be broken because of last respect, and in the end houndstone and basculegion will be allowed but last respect banned. we just have to wait
@@robinsimon4176 but why protect a move over a whole ass mon? I would take being able to use a no fishous dravovish over keeping fishous on acrtovish any day. Both are bad but at least I get the option
@@robinsimon4176 how is that a complex ban. You just banning a move 💀💀
lmao both of them were already powercrept
@@itscoolthough419 stupid smogon reasoning, they consider "complex" a single move on a single mon
Heh... So it begins.
Last Respects, no matter how ya look at it, was DEFINITELY not balanced with 6v6 in mind (remember that Battle Stadium Singles 3v3 and VGC are the officially supported formats by The Pokemon Company and Last Respects can't hit that crazy BP in those).
150 bp is still mad strong
@@bruhmaxxer still easily counterable with just a single normal type
@@dissy2180 Specs kyogre water spout is easily counterable by storm drain and water absorb.
@@bruhmaxxer And that's both way stronger and still allowed, not sure what your point is.
@@TheMirksta their point is that when something is so powerful that it REQUIRES a counter in order to be played around, it's not balanced. 150 BP used to be unheard of on moves that didn't sacrifice a turn or require a massive amount of setup. Do you remember soul dew latios/latias , Pokemon that could make their base stats ABOVE uber level before buffs?
Houndstone looks like a 70s Hanna-Barbera character. Like Muttley died after one too many whacky races.
It’s crazy how much love and hate I have for smog on. Like it is seriously unfathomable how much I appreciate the website, and also how they managed to avoid a lawsuit altogether. Then there are days like these and conversations like this about their lack of brain cells. Makes me rage that there’s almost no alternatives.
🎯
Loved how the video was supposed to show how broken Houndstone because of last respects move, but because of Joey's awesome skills in team building and battling, houndstone was more a sidekick than anything else, just tanking hits with fluffy and revenge killing threats with shadow sneak or body press. Mad respect for Joey.
“Granted they can spin because I don’t have a steel type on the team”
Gholdengo: “Am I a joke to you?”
I remember using Last Respects Houndstone Day 1. Destroyed so many teams before everyone started using Palafin and Sucker Punch...
That’s the reason why I used Banded Tera Ghost Shadow Sneak on my Ceruledge,just to take out those damn Houndstones
Banded grimmsnarl did just fine against him for me
Its not even that good if you stall out or override sand turns
@@siracha6242 dang its almost like you have no clue what you're talking about and you're under 1100 and mad that the only team you can play is one that does almost the same thing every game
@@siracha6242 have you played?
while houndstone itself and Last Respects are very, very gimmicky and one-dimensional, I still enjoyed seeing all the creative ways people tried to take advantage of its sheer strength. Skellie dog did me proud tearing up OU 😢
Houndstone could be Joey's mascot - look at that boy's jawline
I love how, in the same generation no less, GameFreak created Gigation Hammer (a Steel-type version of Gen 1 Hyper Beam that's even stronger) and then created a move that was even more nuclear with Last Respects (which has a maximum BP of *300* before STAB with no drawbacks).
Drawback of everyone else on your team being fainted
Last respects is really the only respect it got banned, so when home comes and basculegion gets the move Houndstone will get unbanned and the move will get banned (probably)
the thing people forget is Houndstone teams largely play 5v6 the whole game just to die to any decent mon with Sucker Punch
basculegion gonna be banned quicker😭 adaptability scarfed last respects base 600 finna be crazy
nah, at that point they will unban houndstone and just ban the move itself
7:30 toxic debris activates before mortal spin so he wouldn't get the t spike up
Thissss
Fax stinkypoke
i don’t understand can you explain pls
2:52 I don't know if aim thought a Dragon move was coming or he relied on Houndstone good bulk but fluffy doesn't tank earthquake because fluffy only works on contact moves
Isn’t eq a contact move
Contact means the two Pokemon make physical contact during the move. Otherwise almost every move would be considered contact.
@@NightLightOwl11 EQ is not a contact move. The user summons a quake that hits the enemy from a distance, they don't go up close and personal for it.
@@NightLightOwl11 stomping tantrum is the contact move
@@NightLightOwl11 EQ is a physical move however, it is not a contact move
Major L by Smogon, ban this and leave Palafin? Wild
Palafin is broken, but this one genuinely does more Damage than Dracovish with Strong Jaw. This Quickban HAD to happen.
@@Cortrakx3 prob couldve just banned its sig tho
@@Cortrakx3 does it actually do more than fishous rend? Dracovish usually has rain running
@@nguyentri3608 yes, 300 bp plus stab
@@nguyentri3608 252+ Atk Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend (170 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pikachu in Rain: 1083-1275 (513.2 - 604.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend (170 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pikachu: 721-850 (341.7 - 402.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Houndoom Shadow Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pikachu: 918-1081 (435 - 512.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Houndoom given Houndstone's stats and Shadow Claw given the max power for Last Respects).
Dracovish beats it with rain up, but Houndstone does more damage otherwise (and the ability to use Sand Rush to outspeed stuff gives it more leeway to use Life Orb/Band than Dracovish had, which would beat scarf Dracovish even in rain.
Houndstone shouldn't have been banned. Just ban the move. Other moves get banned, ban this one too.
I agree that Last Respects being banned would be more fun than banning the fluffy boy
This is sparking my interest in competitive Pokemon again. I loved Gen 8 VGC but singles has been so bland to me for years
You guys should take on National dex w/ the SV uber ghosts while the other Ubers are chillin in the tier
Flutter fits in fine since koraidon and groudon can support against calyrex
Man I am barely past the second gym. So many new mechanics and so much to do. Can't wait to get on showdown once I finish the game and keep learning about the new mons
Take it easy well be playing this for years.
I’m honestly a little disappointed in the bans coming down so heavily and quickly.
Nobody was really given a chance to creatively beat the “overpowered” Pokémon.
Garganacl or any decent normal type, such as cyclizar or Tera normal-pult blocks out this things gimmick.
Exactly, it's not even been a week since the games release yet. I'm trying to enjoy the hard copy game, not get my fill of smogon OU before it's not fun anymore smh
@@bigchillin4216 exactly isn’t the point of over used for Pokémon to be over used?
I love how rapid spin removes hazards as the last action. It makes Glimmora a lot less annoying and makes Great Tusk an even bigger giga chad. Great Tusk supremacy.
This mon wasn't broken at all, the only thing broken was last respects, almost any decent physically strong ghost type would get banned if they had this move
Exactly, without that move houndstone would be mid
This thing has no business tanking sucker punch and crunches, WITHOUT TERRASTILIZING TO RESIST IT, and OHKO'ing mons back. Fluffy as an alternative to sand rush is frightening in its own right.
Damn, they could at least wait until they get the sprites working before they start banning, now those two aren't ever going to be seen again basically.
They really need to make a ban-list tier (one between OU and Ubers, which would basically just not have box legendries), it'd probably become the most popular tier for casual play since a lot of people just play to have fun (in a tier that's not as over the top as AG).
They used to have this. Called Next Gen OU. Or something. It was where lower tier ubers were allowed to play with ou. Darkrai and some others.
@@insaneglitchxd287 Why'd they get rid of it? Popularity? Or was it on rotation?
@@hmmmmname yeah it just wasn't as popular. I loved it and enjoyed trying stuff out.
Game hasn't even been out for 48 hours and already banning shit, stay classy smogon
Loving the gen 9 vids the new mons are so cool
16:45 last disrespects
I actually calc'd a ton of stuff manually, rotom-w and goodra are slept on pretty hard
I kept seeing people say Last Respects should be banned and I can see why due to it being the main leading factor, but it would go against what Smogon did.
Sure, they did bans on specific moves, abilities and items such as Baton Pass, Moody and King’s Rock, but it’s since many Pokémon had access to those things and they weren’t that competitive.
Houndstone is like 50% Zygarde and Dracovish. Dracovish had mediocre stats but had a usable speed stat, Strong Jaw/Sand Rush and Fishous Rend. Arctovish has some of these but is slower and has a worse defensive typing, so it didn’t get banned. Zygarde was mediocre until it got T-Arrows. Coupled with strong bulk, multiple sets and near neutral coverage, it got banned.
Houndstone has Sand Rush, good bulk, and coverage in Body Press/Play Rough. And Last Respects like the two signature moves of Zygarde and Dracovish has limited distribution. If a Pokémon with neither the agility or bulk had it, it probably wouldn’t take advantage of the move. Like what Finch said in the Smogon Twitch stream, Basculegion will come and it’ll be determined if Last Respects may get banned later on. As of now, only Houndstone knows the move.
I think it's important to look at each case situationally and figure out which ban would restrict more options. It's likely both basculegion and houndstone would have a place without last respects.
Imo that's healthier and more fun.
I think that's often the case when it's clear that a move is the issue more than the mon.
well to the point of draco vs arcto, dracovish had a major point you did mention but the biggest part on why dracovish was the problem is strong jaw. making it 1.5 times better than arctovish. also draco can outspeed a lot of the not too fast stuff with scarf, arcto cant
@@robinsimon4176 I absolutely agree. It was a combination of factors which made Dracovish more reliable and overwhelming. Dracozolt's Hustle ability wasn't reliable enough for it to be ban worthy and Arctovish/zolt were both too slow.
Dracovish just had the perfect combination of stats and abilities to make Fishous rend a problem.
So I believe banning the mon in this case was less restrictive as it still allowed the other 3 fossils to use the move and have a place in their respective tiers.
In the case of last respects I think both users could function without the move and we wouldn't have to lose access to two Pokémon.
Houndstone is likely to be lost to irrelevance in ubers, maybe Basculegion will function there, but Houndstone would simply be a lower tier Pokémon without Last Respects.
On a slightly different note, I don't see Flutter Mane doing well in ubers but see it absolutely being overwhelming in OU. Kind of a Blaziken/Cinderace type issue.
Unfortunately I don't see another clear option for dealing with that issue. I think given time Flutter would simply adapt enough viable sets that it would be incredibly hard to counter and would likely cause major damage to teams before revealing it's set.
@@jotarokujo3603 In the case of Gill Bite (Mistranslated to Fishious rend in English) and Bolt beak the issue was clearly Dracovish, not the other 3 abominations.
It getting banned so early is absolutely bullshit I really firmly believe Smogon is becoming more and more anti adaptation as the years go by it really kills the fun of competitive play for me.
ALL they have to do is adapt. The definition of competitive pokemon in 2003 shouldn't be the same now
They realistically should’ve banned Last Respects over just putting Houndstone in the kennel. Wait until Basculegion gets ahold of it. This is a scenario where the move itself is the banworthy choice, not the Pokemon who happens to learn it
That Blissey 100% counter teamed
I honestly have had fun just building teams, even when I always perform terribly
Kinda love this gen, and I hope they never ban Terastalize
Lol, first battle.
>Why didn't they absorb t-spikes? Did they just not want to get into Glimmora vs Glimmora?
>Oh, it's on a balloon
Smogon banning shit on day 2:
Me, a vgc player who will have to play with everything and looking at the sun abusers: Haha, I'm in danger!
You ain't nothin but a Houndstone, dyin all the time
I hope they will complex ban last respects. This thing is one of the first promising ghost type walls.
With Houndstone gone, it’s Annihilape’s time to shine
I straight up do not get how “Last Respect is banned” is so complex. Houndstone without it is a lower tier mon at best and we’re going to get a much faster, much more devastatingly powerful user of it in Basculegion soon. What happens when even more Pokémon get it when DLC drops? It straight up doesn’t even matter who gets it, because the move itself is so obscenely strong that literally anything that can use it will.
25:23 ate the whole Indigenous Day Dinner!
The Ruin quartet are some of my favorite pokemon, never have I liked a set of pokemon like this since gen 5
They're all so unique too. Not just colour swaps with slight differences. :)
Please, more solo lives like old times! I like hearing your thought process.
Smogon took a year to ban Urshifu when the dude was dominating OU with a high pick rate. Why are they so inconsistent with their bans?
The goat palafin gonna run the tier for a week
Imagine you sweep an entire team, and their last Pokémon is a houndstone
I can’t wait to do a ghost type only challenge
"We gotta run after that" yeah that miss into toxic kill was disgusting
Yeah just ban last respects, houndstone isn’t the problem lol
Once Basculegion comes in, I think Smogon will have to ban the move and not the Pokémon that use it.
appreciate the art credit doc :)
They drew it so well so i had to use it. even asked them if i could use it haha
All the arrows in your, blunder’s, and jam’s thumbnails have me dying of laughter
Honestly should’ve waited a month. I played all day yesterday and go to 1200s and didn’t even remember seeing houndstone at all. I still think I would be it with palafin. Or maybe even live at hit with Corv. I think we could’ve seen some more counter play
Please talk about Garganacl!!
Well, that's a bit sad but totally understandable - I mean you can't have that madness running about.
Now for Victin00b.
Kinda dumb that they refuse to just ban last respects as a whole if we can ban the OHKO moves or evasion boosts why can’t we just ban last respects
I scared my dog when Ting took less than 50% from last respects
🤣Lol RUN RUN RUN gotta run from that disgusting ending. Been there, haha.
7:30 pretty sure Debris triggers before hazards are cleared, negating it
I didn't even get a chance to use him yet!!!! Bruhh 😭 Why didn't they just ban the move??
you should do a video on gholdengo sometime.
A move I think people are underestimating in this meta is Protect. The meta is so aggressive, having the option of scouting against potential locked Mons is great + it allows you to play around the 50/50 of Tera in a case like the Annihilape vs Houndstone part in the video.
I really feel like it will tone down the view of people that think that Tera must be banned. It is strong but I cannot stress enough how I like this mechanic.
terra is honestly ok its not as strong as expected on alot of mons it just provides a sort of choice band that gets counter terrad.
@@C3l3bi1 I also think it’s not broken. The really unbalanced part about it is the fact that it’s not bound to an item but other than that, I feel like it makes the metagame more lively and fun than ever before
@@KeertikaAndFallenTree But Smogon hates fun, they only care about competitive and they are willing to make a parody of the original game just for that.
We hAve To BAn tHe mON nOt tHe moVe - literal clowns
Can we just acknowledge the fact that Delibird went from absolutely pathetic to downright monster like
Iron bundle
The guy’s chi-yu that missed was definitely about to say something nasty
this misdreavus robot thing is maybe the most braindead mon ever created
Since it’s considered a signature move, the pokemon is banned.
Once the fish gets released, the move will get banned instead.
Meaning make it illegal to have sand rush with last respect
Last Respect is forcing us to run Normal types
bulletproof ursaluna and banded metagross with bullet punch counters Flutter Mane easily. I hope we get Metagross in dlc
I think we will. They will include all the pseudo every generation.
Gigaton Hammer from Tinkaton is ridiculous in base power but at least it's balanced through stats and not being able to use it twice in a row
Even if you could use it anytime you want It wouldn't be broken, phys def corvi eats gigaton hanmers for days
18:07 why not switching into gholdengo to prevent mortal spin?
I guess the move is intended for VGC usage, as it maxes out at 200 there. Basculegion + rain might get used though, we'll see.
100% should've banned Last Respects. This problem is just going to repeat itself when Basculegion gets released. I still pay attention to competitive, but this kind of thing is why I hate Smogon. They are all too quick to ban the wrong thing.
Have a ghost Pokémon with Tera normal type and use a ghost move and boom strategy broken
lol smogon really does ban everything that threatens their precious stall, why people still follow your rules i'll never understand.
Last respect has a base power of 300
Stoked for the @CybertronVGC video.
27:16 is cycl too frail to make slow shed tails? I think that'd be a bit more helpful! 😅
I think the new worm Pokémon gets shed tail too. So if you want to try slow shed tails it might be worth to use it
Mono ghosts is so broken
Can we get a Dodonzo highlight video? I feel like it’s such a good counter to Mons like Palafin and Chen pao
There is a gen 9 pokemon with a unique ability with the same effect as respects
What mon would that be? Kingambit's ability only boosts power by 10% per fainted mon, last respects boosts its own power by 100% per fainted mon
I wonder if shell bell on houndstone would be better than leftovers, since it may 1-shot everything* in the lategame anyway.
Just ban last respects the dog is good but definetly not broken
I like a salac Berry with endure and a tas with dragon dance and baton pass with a taranitar to get sand storm and u have 940 speed lol
Baton pass is banned
I think it can get un quick banned, it certainly has counters, they're being kinda trigger happy with the ban here
Banning pokemon in less than a week. No wonder Smogon will become irrelevant
Last Respects is so sick
Are you kidding me that palafin is literally just a dolphin?
a non official group banned a pokemon in a non official VGC
4 of these guys were on my first ou team I made :( gna miss stone and flutter wing
It wasn't even a week yet and they already banned them, dude just ban the move smh
Does Joey have a play through of Pokémon scarlet or violet like he did with sword and shield?
Nah i still havent rven beaten the games lol
power creep for gen9 so far is insane, even worse than gen5
Even with all the whack new mons and paradox mons, dragapult is one of the best mons in the new meta.
What if terastal was like Z rings where u can only turn into a type based on moves u already have
so for example,
my baxcalibur has glaive rush, icicle spear, eq and dd
I can only tera into dragon, ice or ground
that kinda gives a level of predictability to terastal while not ruining the spontaneity of it completely
idk
The whole tera-blast coverage wouldn't have sense then