The Kobayashi Maru is the Sci-Fi version of the Gordian Knot. It's this unsolvable puzzle whose insolvability is supposed to teach you a lesson in the attempt, but Kirk and Alexander both said "Nah, I'm just going to cheat and win."
@@CRAZYMUGMAN no. He cheated. And he learns the cost of never facing a no win situation when he loses Spok at the end of Wrath of Kahn. While he charmed his superiors into praising him, he never learned and internalized the lesson the test was designed to teach. So Kahn taught it to him instead. What he failed to understand and learn is that sometimes you lack the power to find a path where no sacrifices are made. Where no one has to pay the ultimate price in order for others to live. And that builds the arc that comes full circle when Spok says to him "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or one". Then we see it in Kirk's eye (thanks to shatner being a master shakespearean actor) that he finally realizes what powerless feels like.
@@yourleftisttesticle It’s called, thinking outside the box. Example - When my children and I played the board game BATTLESHIP my daughter (against the rules) would move her ship to lessen the chances of it getting hit again. It made sense. In a real life scenario the captain of a ship would order it moved (if possible) so the enemy couldn’t get a bead on it. We established a new rule when playing BATTLESHIP if the ship hadn’t received more than 50% damage, it could still be moved. It made the game more interesting. My daughter at seven years old learned how to “think outside the box“
I think in one of the books Nog was one of, if not THE first to beat the Kobayashi Maru without cheating. The short version was the simulation did not account for a Ferengi being captain and Nog made a deal with the opposition and rescued the ship that way. They tore the simulator apart to try to prove tampering and didn't find anything. The Academy did the only thing they could do: gave him the win.
@@VHTeslawhat a delight! I wonder if “name your price” was a reference to all the classic Priceline commercials with William Shatner because I can’t help but hear that in his voice 😂
There was one of the novels titled Kobayashi Maru. Not canon, but interesting insights on the characters. It was set sometime in the "second five-year mission". Kirk, Scotty, McCoy, Sulu, and Chekov take a shuttle through an asteroid field towards some planet for a diplomatic visit or something, while the Enterprise waits outside the system. The shuttle hits a gravitic mine, is crippled, main engines out, computer out, communications out, and Sulu & Kirk badly injured. They're mostly stuck waiting for long enough to be posted overdue and Spock begin a search. To pass time, they exchange stories (the four line officers) about their turns at the Kobayashi Maru test (prompted by the coincidence of the gravitic mine AND the near helplessness of their situation). They flesh out Kirk's story a little. Scotty was almost indifferent to the exercise until the attack, then kicked into gear trying to engineer a solution. Conversation afterwards with his training commander and he was happy to be transferred out of command track. Chekov self-destructed his ship. Sulu refused to cross the Neutral Zone boundary and cause an incident (an apparently rare, if not unprecedented, response). There was a some good back story to each character and mindset/ambitions/fears. --- They finally came up with a solution to the asteroid field problem. Blow up a large and volatile-enough chunk of rock to send up a flare near where the Enterprise will be searching. Chekov hand-calculates an intercept point (based on assuming Spock on a regulation search pattern from the moment they lost contact) by writing on every interior surface of the shuttle, McCoy straps Sulu into the pilot seat with enough drugs for the right combination of pain-killer & lucidity to fly them on maneuvering thrusters to the target point, Scotty cobbles together spare parts and EV suit thruster packs to make their bomb and goes EVA to plant it. Kirk... well, he was too badly injured to literally look over everyone's shoulders at their control stations, so he had to do it figuratively.
@@micahrodriguez6419 It was wonderful, and yet played entirely by the rules. Exaggerating their interpretation a bit, as Spock and Kirk taught her ("If we go by the book, like Lt. Saavik, hours would seem like days." "When communications are being monitored, you're in battle.") but still, a classic and flawless victory.
The passing of Kristie Alley was devastating to the Star Trek universe. May her and all that contributed to this Sci fi series rest in peace in the stars. Warp speed. Hailing frequencies closed, Captain. 🙏❤️😔🕊🕊🕊🕊🕊🕊🕊🕊🌌
I love how he is eating the apple in the simulation like he was in the Genesis cave.... RIP Kirsty, Leonard, James, and DeForest. Thank you for the memories.
Seeing Star Trek 2 makes me think of the late Kristie Alley, who portrayed Lt Saavik. Her passing last year was a big loss. Her acting career spanned many blessed years from Cheers, Looks who talking, Fat Actress, And Star trek 2, the Wraft of Khan, which she performed with flying colors. May her memory and legacy live on. R.I.P.🙏❤️😪🕊🕊🕊🕊🕊🕊🕊
In a version of the original plot, Saavik has a bigger role in that she becomes pregnant by Spock to help him through what we would call adolescence. In the next film (STAR trek 4) she would have an abortion. I think this was used in the novelisation of the film.
Better to ask: if a captain is supposed to feel fear in the face of certain death, wouldn’t that make him emotionally compromised and therefore unfit to be captain?
@@jamesfunk7614 It might come under dereliction of duty, as one of the universal constants even with hostile nation states is the ability to respond to distress signals and render aid.
@@brandonleopold1664 Bravery isn't the absence of fear but doing what you need to do despite the fear. Its not suppose to make you fearless (which is being oblivious to the danger around you) but being able to handle the fear and pressure of the situation.
DeForest lounging asking about his performance always makes me laugh, haha. Karl does great in the role, but I miss Kelley. Miss all of ‘em that have gone ahead, being honest.
I think Chris Doohan would've been better as Scotty. He knew his father's role in "Star Trek Continues" and I could better imagine Scotty looking more like Chris or that new guy in "Strange New Worlds" than Simon Pegg.
I think in Wrath of Khan it was more interesting because it was a new idea, and we aren't sure what we are watching as the audience. We wonder, "Why is that hot young vulcana commanding all the old people?" Then we figure it out as we watch the scene play out. In the new movie, it's just something on their "list of things to mimic" in order the fulfill the order for a movie.
Uh no. Kirk behaves like it’s a joke because he knows it’s rigged. The rest of the crew reacts in a very shocked manner because they can’t believe he’s so complacent with the whole thing. Because they likely know it’s not a win-win situation. Did you watch the movie?
@@JB-xg7io you’re a fucking idiot. They aren’t in any way garbage . if anything is garbage it’s these old ass movies compared to the next gen movies. I actually like a few of these old movies to be honest. But you can’t compare the new movies to these because the people who were involved in Star Trek didn’t make them. JJ Abrams give you his version of a Star Trek movie so of course it’s going to be different you dumbass. Those movies were in fact so good that it made people who were never interested in Star Trek actually take a look at it seriously. Several people of which I know personally. Maybe if you weren’t such a whiny ass cynic, you could appreciate JJ Abrams movies for what they were not what you thought they should be. You sound like you don’t enjoy much in life anyway because you’re so fucking critical
I wonder if T'Pol will live long enough to meet Saavik.and Spock. I get the feeling that Saavik learned to take advantage of David Marcus from reading Cdr. T'Pol's journal where she took advantage of Cdr. Tucker. And Scotty probably read CEO Tucker's journal when he was locked up in quarantine after that fight w/the Tribbles!
Starfleet in the Original Prime timeline had a better understanding of the greater metacommand issues, hence they rewarded Kirk, where the alternate timeline punished him. Very short sighted of them.
I mean Original Prime Timeline Kirk also only cheated the third time because he understood the idea of the test, but he did not see it as a fair way of testing since a no-win scenario is, to him, illogical to use a Vulcan-favorite word. Hell I love the fact that Nog of all people managed to essentially defeat the simulation itself by making it crash from trying to go full Ferengi on it - bartering and discussing trade concept and whatnot to the point that the simulation just couldn't keep up anymore. It also shows why Kirk got a commendation for thinking outside the box. It wasn't about cheating to win, it was to not get caught in the idea of the no-win scenario itself of which Kirk did not believe was realistic or anywhere near fair as a concept. Alas in the lense-flare verse, we had dickhead Kirk whom apparently cheats on his first attempt or some such it'd seem, and have not learnt the reason for the test what so ever... which is extremely scary to think about since he wasn't kicked from Star Fleet for it, or at least limited from the Command Path and instead get delegated to operations or some such instead.
@@kinagrill Actually, even JJverse Bones mentiones that "nobody does the test a second or even a third time" and then there are Uhuras off-handed comments and her general annoyance during the test, implying that that wasnt their first rodeo. Also, Id like to point out that JJverse Kirk wasnt punished, he was grounded pending investigation, a completely normal procedure, its only that the Narada incident overshadowed all the events (although a bit more conclusion over the test would have been nice).
@@kinagrill i dont think original Kirk learned the lesson that was essential from the test. I felt like it was a part of his arc that he learns the real meaning of the no win scenario at the end, when he loses Spok. You can see in Shatner's eyes that deep sense of powerlessness that you had never seen him have before.
So, noticed one thing. In the prime timeline; TOS, TNG, Ect. Even the Newer shows. Starfleet never ordered “The Ship” or aka “The Enterprise” to rescue the Kobashi Maru; it was always a distress call that “The Ship” was able to accept or not. It’s Intresting that they were ordered atleast to me
I believe that change was because, as originally designed, the test doesnt include a no win scenario. A good captain could legally and ethically choose to not rescue the Kobayashi Maru. It is a violation of treaty, and thus a major threat to even more civilians, than letting the people on the Kobayashi Maru die. You literally save the lives of your crew and prevent a war. Huge win. But if you are ordered to rescue them, well you have no outs now. You either disobey a direct order and get court marshalled or you die.
@@CrizzyEyes And, much as I don't like Discovery and Strange New Worlds, Pike is right when he states that Starfleet vessels are obligated to respond to distress calls under Federation law. Granted the SNW scenario doesn't involve violating the neutral zone, but the point still stands.
@@yourleftisttesticle Thank you, Left Testicle. I've listened to you and learned something valuable. Sure, letting 380 people die isn't pleasant. But it's worse to throw your own life away along with them. It's like old Kirk says, "klingons not known for taking prisoners". PLUS, what were those 380 people doing in the neutral zone???? Reminds me of these americans who go hiking in the middle east and get kidnapped by terrorists, and then the american government is compelled to go the extreme lengths to try to get them back when they put themselves in that position all on their own. VERY SIMILAR to the PRIME DIRECTIVE!
Would've been much better in the remake if Kirk pretended to be stressed out instead of nonchalantly eating an apple and not putting up shields, etc. It was obvious from the get go that he was not stressed out. The "Shatner Kirk" would've never been that relaxed. He would've acted distressed and sold that he won fair and square.
I never quite got how Kirk (new version) was supposed to magically become captain besides, plot. Like, he never struck me as captain material as lacked the maturity.
Yeah exactly, I thought that scene could have been done waaay better. There was a lot less CGI used than there should have been also.@@jeffreyqatsha6247
According to Wikipedia, the voice of the captain of the Kobayashi Maru is David Ruprecht, 80's character actor, and the longtime host of game show Supermarket Sweep. If it is him, he put on a British accent though.
In the original she demanded shields up and weapons energized. In Kirk's version he did not engage shields which meant he did not see them as a threat initiated protocol for treatment and transfer of crew members from the maru and then no shields engaged ( without warning... therefore not generating a response from Klingon protocol) he knows spock always programs humanity as a reason for failure. Hence he didn't act defensive until already on the offense.
Might also want to consider Frank Lloyd Wright's quote, “I believe that in the search for the answer, lies the answer.” Attempting to solve an unsolvable puzzle can provide valuable insights and lessons, despite the ultimate realization that the puzzle cannot be solved. The journey and the lessons learned along the way are often as valuable as the destination itself. The experience gained from attempting to solve an unsolvable puzzle can enhance your problem-solving skills, mindset, and overall approach to challenges in various aspects of life. Here are some things that can be learned from such an endeavor: Problem-Solving Skills Persistence and Perseverance Adaptability and Flexibility Understanding Limits Enjoyment of the Process Insights into the Puzzle's Design Good Luck to you in your StarFleet Training endeavors.
Believe it or not, there is somewhat of a basis for it IRL. While exercises like Red Flag aren't *unbeatable* per say, BLUFOR (good guys, often times the US in these exercises) fights with both hands tied behind their back. Fairly recently, there was supposedly a Philippine FA-50 Golden Eagle (two-seat light attack/trainer aircraft) that beat a Lockheed F-22 in a close-quarters fight. The F-22 not only had external drop tanks equipped, but also had little reflectors that essentially *negated* the effects of the stealthy design and coatings, thus taking away the Raptor's main advantage (the heavy drop tanks negating the F-22's maneuverability and top speed quite heavily as well). It's the same with Dissimilar Air Combat Training with large numbers of Skyhawks, Tiger IIs (which the exercise or "dogfight" is often skewed in favor of) etc fighting against a few Tomcats, Eagles, Hornets, Fighting Falcons, etc: The main goal is NOT to win. It's to learn how to deal with threats, employ your weapons/fire control systems properly and with ease, and to train for all possible scenarios
I remember seeing this scene in the theater when the movie first came out, and nobody really knew anything about it. The main characters are all dead, there’s total shocked silence, until one guy loudly says “what the f*ck is going on?!?!”
I remember Metallica won a music award, back when MTV was relevant. One guy in the band was eating an apple while they were accepting their award. I don't think it's necessary an azz holio move, it just shows that you are downplaying the importance of the situation. "I'm just gonna eat an apple, because this doesn't require all of my attention."
I managed to beam over nearly half the survivors over and take out one of the Klingon ships before getting destroyed. Starfleet Academy was a fun game, wish they'd do a remake.
When I was very little, I remember thinking this was a real attack and when Kirk walked in at 3:06. I thought he was going to take command and save the day.
At least consider the possibility of changing the conditions. That alone will allow you to snatch a few victories from otherwise certain defeat scenarios.
The lessons I learned from Kirk about being a leader are: Always show outward confidence at all times to subordinates and to make a decision. Indecision is worse than a wrong decision.
This scene would have been a great place to introduce the holodeck. It would explain why all of the old bridge crew were physically in San Fran training cadets if they were mostly holograms.
I kind of hate how they handled the Kobayashi Maru in JJ Abrams Star Trek. Kirk's just way too obvious about cheating and doesn't even try to hide it. He didn't change the program to make it win-able, he changed it to make it not lose-able! That's a big difference!
They rush the scene because they know we know all about it. Trash movie made by people who don't get Star Trek, but do get it more than the clowns after 2009.
@Scott Alleman I mean in the first thor movie he basically says that his "magic" is just really advanced tech And in the second one jane knows what the device scanning her is even if she doesn't know how the device itself works
It is interesting to note how seriously the test is taken in the original trek…as a military operation, while in new Trek there is a playful tone to voices and Kirk eating an apple… this is at the crux of the difference between the new and old Trek.
Is no one going to mention the significant difference of Saavik ordering rescue on her own vs. Kirk and crew were ordered by Star Fleet? Big difference.
In the new version they should have put Kirk on the attacking side of the arguments during the "trial". Kirk should have said something like: "I don't believe in no-win scenarios, Mr Spock and neither do you. Neither does sentient life in general. Take Vulcans for example, Mr Spock. A form of life once so violent and emotional that were destined to total eradication due to warfare. A no-win scenario. Along came your Surak, bringing forth a new philosophy based on logic and repressed emotion, therefore saving your soon-to-be-dead species. He 'installed and activated a subroutine in YOUR programming code, thereby changing the conditions of YOUR test (of life)'. Did he cheat? Did Vulcans cheat death? The original Kirk would have done something like that. We would have turned the argument on itself and gained Spock's respect and friendship in one go.
The Kobayashi Maru test is also famous in Japan. "Kobayashi"(小林) is one of the most common names in Japan. "Maru"(丸) is often used at the end of ship names. For example, "Toya maru"(洞爺丸) This is Tokyo.
@@robertballasty395 Maru aka 丸 is basically "circle". There's a few explanations behind the usage of the word in ship names. Complicating the matter is that the translation of ship names can be more elaborate than the actual kanji used.
In Star Trek lore, the term Kobayashi Maru simply refers to the name of the ship they needed to rescue. The kanji 小林丸 is translated as "Kobayashi Ship", since the last kanji (丸) is used as a suffix, particularly for naming ships. If we were to interpret the literal kanji themselves and not base it on movie lore, then the meaning would be like this: 小 = small/little 林 = forest/grove 丸 = round/ circle Now the literal translation would be something like "small forest circle". But here's a little fun fact, in Japanese, a circle is interpreted as being "complete" or "whole", or in some cases referring to the essence of being"endless" no beginning, no end. So in a more poetical approach, the Kobayashi Maru can be interpreted as an "endless little forest", which perfectly depicts the essence of the test; a seemingly simple task that never ends. Atleast that's how I interpreted it.
What happens if you choose not to answer the distress call and leave the Kobayashi Maru in the neutral zone? I mean it sounds cruel but it’s a classic case of ‘needs of a few outweigh needs of the many’. While rescuing the ship sounds noble on paper, violating the neutral zone is considered act of war. Is one stranded freighter really worth a war with the Klingon empire and the lives of millions of Federation citizens?
It's a test of character. If a Captain just ignores the distress call, I think it would show he isn't ready for command. Think of all the senior crew characters from all the classic shows .... even Data. Would ANY of them just ignore the cries for help.
The books say that this was the solution Sulu used, refusing to help the ship claiming it was a trap, apparently it's the most correct solution that doesn't involve cheating, but it's still technically a loss since the Maru is still destroyed
Meanwhile in Star Trek Prodigy Dal: **Starts playing loud music to distract the klingons** I blown up so many times... I see now, the only way out is *CHAOS*
🖖😎👍Very cool on the showing of the Kobayashi Maru senerio scene from the Wrath of Khan and this is still truly one of the greatest Startrek movies ever made indeed; And I myself don't care for the J.J. Universe version of the Kobayashi Maru Test where Kirk gets reprimanded and scolded for changing the format of the test instead of being congratulated and awarded for doing so!.
Best course of action? Probably to ignore the distress call. 380 lives lost is nothing compared to the potential billions that will be lost if violating the neutral zone starts a war.
Do you know ANY previous ST Captain who you think would IGNORE a distress call? Kirk, Picard, Janeway, Sisko, Archer? ... Would any of them say "Switch off that damn cry for help" "I'm too afraid of upsetting the Klingons" ...
I recently came to the revelation that-- Testing an officer with the "Kobayashi Maru" test would be more believable if the officer in command believed they were on an actual mission.
This is a Command Test to examine how you deal with failure. How you die is just as important as how you live❤The insights of Star Trek is often underestimated. Gold is heavy
A striking contrast of the writing / acting of the classic movies with the remakes. Does anyone believe that the Shatner cadet would have taken the test - even after reprogramming - as a joke?
So wait, the purpose of the test in the 2009 movie is...to scare cadets or something? The original was a test of the cadets' character, how they handle themselves, their own ship and their own crew in such high stress fatal situations, whether or not they choose to engage the problem or not. I don't know what "teaching them fear in the face of certain death" is supposed to achieve.
Well it's to teach them to adapt to certain situation find a way to win by either losing or from failures. Its like using your knowledge of the enemies to exploit, adapt and win.
I don't believe the Kelvin timeline should have changed Kirk getting a commendation for his cheat. I think it was the only way to have tension between Kirk and Spock and use it as a plot point. As a result, Kirk met the elder Spock who could get him back on to the Enterprise and find a way to captain the ship. This and the inexplicable reason Pike made a near-kicked out cadet be 1st officer to Spock above everyone else, which provided a path to said captaincy. I liked this movie and watched it several times, but I'm hoping they find a way to have a solid Kelvin-timeline Star Trek IV and not get lazy for the sake of earning a ton of money.
I think one of the novels explains that the Kobayashi Maru is supposed to be a fuel tanker that accidentally struck a Klingon mine and drifted into the Neutral Zone.
Another question: what the hell are the Klingons doing in the Neutral Zone?? I also find it hard to believe that an emotionless Vulcan could accurately program a scenario that's intended to induce fear.
That's a moot point, and its not in alignment with SOP. 1. For Kobayashi Maru Scenario: Uhura is a part/program of the test. She is performing her standard functions, and following established SOP. 2. In real world practice: Show regulations, or SOP, requiring Comms to "request clearance" for any, or every emergency Comms scenario situation. If there is none... and the Captain has not already specifically ordered Comms at one time or another to, "Await Authorization", then the excuse is not SOP. Procedure is either SOP, or its not. Since Uhura is the ships Chief Communications Director, She is over that section. She's the Senior Supervisor for that Position/Section/Department. She decides; UNLESS her C/O (Capt., or the First Officer) specifically orders her not to, or gives her an alternative to SOP. I cannot speak to Military applications, only Civilian apps. Since Starfleet constantly crows that its NOT a military organization, then we'd need to assume that their SOP aligns with what professional civilian, para-military organizations (Law Enforcement, emergency services, NASA) do to operate in simular situations. Of course its just a sci-fi movie, and if they wanted, they could kiss their own a**es if dramatic licence called for it.
Intriguing, a Vulcan establishes the need for ALL Star Fleet Captains (Including all Vulcan Captains) To feel fear in a "no win situation" before overcoming it. Fascinating, and hypocritical.
“you’ve never faced death” How is a simulator supposed to qualify as facing death? The whole point of the simulator is that there are no permanent consequences for mistakes.
Yeah, except I don't think james kirk would have been so stupid as the new kirk to think that he could just make the simulation reset mid-battle while he playfully eats an apple and the klingons are destroyed after it. I mean, the real kirk wasn't so stupid to think there could be no consequences or that anyone would believe it was all real and not investigate it. So a very dumb plot hole.
The name Kobayashi was taken from Cornel Kobayashi who lead Japanese force on Iwo Jima. He was given the task to defend Iwo Jima without hope of reinforcements thus a no win senerio.
The efficacy of this test after a year or two would be questionable. Every cadet would know it was coming and the details of the encounter, as word gets around. Very quickly, it would only test how well you prepare for the scenario, not how you respond to it. It would have to be completely random and unexpected each time to have any meaning, but even then, every cadet would know well ahead of time it always ends in failure.
I'll give you an example of Kobyashi Maru in real life. During the Vietnam War, the US had a treaty agreement with Cambodia that it would not conduct wartime operations over Cambodia. However, the US had a problem with the ever elusive Ho Chi Minh trail, a supply line from the NVA (North Vietnamese Army) to the VietCong operatives in the south. When the trail shifted to running through parts of Cambodia, the US became desperate, resorting to black ops because they knew well how much more harm a well resupplied Viet Cong could inflict on US troops in the south. So, commanders in the field "strongly requested" helicopter crews to bomb the trail where it ran through Cambodia. They were also told if they were shot down, the US would deny having given authorization to do so and no rescue attempt would be made. So, why would anyone from those helicopter crews in their right minds be willing to go along with this, knowing they're being given illegal orders? They felt a commitment to help out their fellow US troops in the south who were struggling in dire circumstances, essentially saving US lives by breaking the Ho Chi Minh trail. Not a rescue operation, per se, as in the Kobyashi Maru. But, the intent is still the same with a military force going to extreme lengths to save lives of their own.
The problem with this exercise is that once you know the trick it just becomes a pointless waste of time. The moment you know you can't win, simulation loses any purpose. And in later movies and series, everyone acts like its common knowledge.
Never noticed this before. Spock is looking at that 3D simulated Enterprise and studying it but there is no information provided. Next Uhura seems to be talking to him and he is completely ignoring her.
You don’t lose until you do. Or you don’t win except when you lose. Either way, the Kobayashi Maru is an exercise in futility. Just play it to stalemate.
The Kobayashi Maru is the Sci-Fi version of the Gordian Knot. It's this unsolvable puzzle whose insolvability is supposed to teach you a lesson in the attempt, but Kirk and Alexander both said "Nah, I'm just going to cheat and win."
kirk didn't cheat, he changed the conditions of the test.
Kobayayashi Maru
@@CRAZYMUGMAN no. He cheated. And he learns the cost of never facing a no win situation when he loses Spok at the end of Wrath of Kahn. While he charmed his superiors into praising him, he never learned and internalized the lesson the test was designed to teach. So Kahn taught it to him instead.
What he failed to understand and learn is that sometimes you lack the power to find a path where no sacrifices are made. Where no one has to pay the ultimate price in order for others to live. And that builds the arc that comes full circle when Spok says to him "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or one". Then we see it in Kirk's eye (thanks to shatner being a master shakespearean actor) that he finally realizes what powerless feels like.
@@yourleftisttesticle It’s called, thinking outside the box. Example - When my children and I played the board game BATTLESHIP my daughter (against the rules) would move her ship to lessen the chances of it getting hit again. It made sense. In a real life scenario the captain of a ship would order it moved (if possible) so the enemy couldn’t get a bead on it. We established a new rule when playing BATTLESHIP if the ship hadn’t received more than 50% damage, it could still be moved. It made the game more interesting. My daughter at seven years old learned how to “think outside the box“
@@recoveringnewyorker2243 Cool addition to the game.
Jeremy Clarkson= I'm allergic to manual labor.
James Kirk= I'm allergic to failure.
Kirstie...Oh my goodness. She is the most beautiful Vulcan in the Star Trek Universe. May she rest in peace.
th-cam.com/video/2-jedrttqJM/w-d-xo.html
Actually, Saavik is half Vulcan and half Romulan. The details are in the novel tie in to the movie.
I think in one of the books Nog was one of, if not THE first to beat the Kobayashi Maru without cheating. The short version was the simulation did not account for a Ferengi being captain and Nog made a deal with the opposition and rescued the ship that way. They tore the simulator apart to try to prove tampering and didn't find anything. The Academy did the only thing they could do: gave him the win.
But how did he make the deal when the Klingon ships are ignoring hails?
@@martynstembridge7714 all channel non-encrypted general broadcast
@@martynstembridge7714 Rule of Acquisition 116: There is always a way out.
@@VHTeslawhat a delight! I wonder if “name your price” was a reference to all the classic Priceline commercials with William Shatner because I can’t help but hear that in his voice 😂
@@VHTesla "Persuade me" "How would you like to be persuaded?"
The only winning move is.... "Not to play".
strange game professor
that is technically an option in ST: Bridge Crew if you can live with that
How about a nice game of chess?
There's a reason Tic-Tac-Toe wasn't listed.
There was one of the novels titled Kobayashi Maru. Not canon, but interesting insights on the characters.
It was set sometime in the "second five-year mission". Kirk, Scotty, McCoy, Sulu, and Chekov take a shuttle through an asteroid field towards some planet for a diplomatic visit or something, while the Enterprise waits outside the system.
The shuttle hits a gravitic mine, is crippled, main engines out, computer out, communications out, and Sulu & Kirk badly injured.
They're mostly stuck waiting for long enough to be posted overdue and Spock begin a search. To pass time, they exchange stories (the four line officers) about their turns at the Kobayashi Maru test (prompted by the coincidence of the gravitic mine AND the near helplessness of their situation).
They flesh out Kirk's story a little.
Scotty was almost indifferent to the exercise until the attack, then kicked into gear trying to engineer a solution. Conversation afterwards with his training commander and he was happy to be transferred out of command track.
Chekov self-destructed his ship.
Sulu refused to cross the Neutral Zone boundary and cause an incident (an apparently rare, if not unprecedented, response).
There was a some good back story to each character and mindset/ambitions/fears.
---
They finally came up with a solution to the asteroid field problem. Blow up a large and volatile-enough chunk of rock to send up a flare near where the Enterprise will be searching. Chekov hand-calculates an intercept point (based on assuming Spock on a regulation search pattern from the moment they lost contact) by writing on every interior surface of the shuttle, McCoy straps Sulu into the pilot seat with enough drugs for the right combination of pain-killer & lucidity to fly them on maneuvering thrusters to the target point, Scotty cobbles together spare parts and EV suit thruster packs to make their bomb and goes EVA to plant it.
Kirk... well, he was too badly injured to literally look over everyone's shoulders at their control stations, so he had to do it figuratively.
Rest in peace, Kirsty Alley. She faced the no win scenario with bravery.
I just heard. She passed fast. She took her Kobiashi Maru test. What do you think of her solution?
@@micahrodriguez6419 fool hardy
@@micahrodriguez6419 It was wonderful, and yet played entirely by the rules. Exaggerating their interpretation a bit, as Spock and Kirk taught her ("If we go by the book, like Lt. Saavik, hours would seem like days." "When communications are being monitored, you're in battle.") but still, a classic and flawless victory.
Kirstie, not Kirsty.
I live the scene later on when she asks Kirk how he passed and he starts to laugh and David says "HE CHEATED."
This was my very first memory of Kirstie Alley. She was born to play Saavik. Her passing is a sad loss to the Star Trek universe. 💓
wait a minute, what? :(
It’s sad she won’t be here to watch her movies or act 😢😭😭
She should have been in the other Star Trek films.
My first sci fi crush!
The passing of Kristie Alley was devastating to the Star Trek universe. May her and all that contributed to this Sci fi series rest in peace in the stars. Warp speed. Hailing frequencies closed, Captain. 🙏❤️😔🕊🕊🕊🕊🕊🕊🕊🕊🌌
I love how he is eating the apple in the simulation like he was in the Genesis cave.... RIP Kirsty, Leonard, James, and DeForest. Thank you for the memories.
Seeing Star Trek 2 makes me think of the late Kristie Alley, who portrayed Lt Saavik. Her passing last year was a big loss. Her acting career spanned many blessed years from Cheers, Looks who talking, Fat Actress, And Star trek 2, the Wraft of Khan, which she performed with flying colors. May her memory and legacy live on. R.I.P.🙏❤️😪🕊🕊🕊🕊🕊🕊🕊
In a version of the original plot, Saavik has a bigger role in that she becomes pregnant by Spock to help him through what we would call adolescence. In the next film (STAR trek 4) she would have an abortion. I think this was used in the novelisation of the film.
"The purpose is to experience fear -- fear in the face of certain death." How is that possible when the cadet knows it is a simulation?
Could have been told "If you die, you're expelled". (which has a similar level of permanency)
Better to ask: if a captain is supposed to feel fear in the face of certain death, wouldn’t that make him emotionally compromised and therefore unfit to be captain?
Also, doesn't the cadet have the option to stay within Federation space, and to NOT attempt resue?
@@jamesfunk7614 It might come under dereliction of duty, as one of the universal constants even with hostile nation states is the ability to respond to distress signals and render aid.
@@brandonleopold1664 Bravery isn't the absence of fear but doing what you need to do despite the fear. Its not suppose to make you fearless (which is being oblivious to the danger around you) but being able to handle the fear and pressure of the situation.
DeForest lounging asking about his performance always makes me laugh, haha. Karl does great in the role, but I miss Kelley. Miss all of ‘em that have gone ahead, being honest.
“I’m not a drama critic”
I loved Karl Urban in everything I have seen him in, but TOS crew will always be TOS crew.
I think Chris Doohan would've been better as Scotty. He knew his father's role in "Star Trek Continues" and I could better imagine Scotty looking more like Chris or that new guy in "Strange New Worlds" than Simon Pegg.
Except why is an MD on the bridge crew?
The acting in Wrath of Khan is top notch. The newer movies the crew behaves like the Kobayashi Maru test is a joke.
The new movies are garbage in just about every way compared to the originals.
I think in Wrath of Khan it was more interesting because it was a new idea, and we aren't sure what we are watching as the audience. We wonder, "Why is that hot young vulcana commanding all the old people?" Then we figure it out as we watch the scene play out. In the new movie, it's just something on their "list of things to mimic" in order the fulfill the order for a movie.
Uh no. Kirk behaves like it’s a joke because he knows it’s rigged. The rest of the crew reacts in a very shocked manner because they can’t believe he’s so complacent with the whole thing. Because they likely know it’s not a win-win situation. Did you watch the movie?
@@JB-xg7io you’re a fucking idiot. They aren’t in any way garbage . if anything is garbage it’s these old ass movies compared to the next gen movies. I actually like a few of these old movies to be honest. But you can’t compare the new movies to these because the people who were involved in Star Trek didn’t make them. JJ Abrams give you his version of a Star Trek movie so of course it’s going to be different you dumbass. Those movies were in fact so good that it made people who were never interested in Star Trek actually take a look at it seriously. Several people of which I know personally. Maybe if you weren’t such a whiny ass cynic, you could appreciate JJ Abrams movies for what they were not what you thought they should be. You sound like you don’t enjoy much in life anyway because you’re so fucking critical
uh no, the acting in the new movies are garbage.
The line should have been, "Damn it, Bones! I'm an Admiral, not a drama critic!" 😊
It seems like Saavik actually did pretty well, considering what the lesson was meant to be.
I wonder if T'Pol will live long enough to meet Saavik.and Spock. I get the feeling that Saavik learned to take advantage of David Marcus from reading Cdr. T'Pol's journal where she took advantage of Cdr. Tucker. And Scotty probably read CEO Tucker's journal when he was locked up in quarantine after that fight w/the Tribbles!
Starfleet in the Original Prime timeline had a better understanding of the greater metacommand issues, hence they rewarded Kirk, where the alternate timeline punished him. Very short sighted of them.
Yep. Exactly my thoughts too.
JJverse stuff is garbage
I mean Original Prime Timeline Kirk also only cheated the third time because he understood the idea of the test, but he did not see it as a fair way of testing since a no-win scenario is, to him, illogical to use a Vulcan-favorite word.
Hell I love the fact that Nog of all people managed to essentially defeat the simulation itself by making it crash from trying to go full Ferengi on it - bartering and discussing trade concept and whatnot to the point that the simulation just couldn't keep up anymore.
It also shows why Kirk got a commendation for thinking outside the box. It wasn't about cheating to win, it was to not get caught in the idea of the no-win scenario itself of which Kirk did not believe was realistic or anywhere near fair as a concept.
Alas in the lense-flare verse, we had dickhead Kirk whom apparently cheats on his first attempt or some such it'd seem, and have not learnt the reason for the test what so ever... which is extremely scary to think about since he wasn't kicked from Star Fleet for it, or at least limited from the Command Path and instead get delegated to operations or some such instead.
@@kinagrill Actually, even JJverse Bones mentiones that "nobody does the test a second or even a third time" and then there are Uhuras off-handed comments and her general annoyance during the test, implying that that wasnt their first rodeo.
Also, Id like to point out that JJverse Kirk wasnt punished, he was grounded pending investigation, a completely normal procedure, its only that the Narada incident overshadowed all the events (although a bit more conclusion over the test would have been nice).
@@kinagrill i dont think original Kirk learned the lesson that was essential from the test. I felt like it was a part of his arc that he learns the real meaning of the no win scenario at the end, when he loses Spok. You can see in Shatner's eyes that deep sense of powerlessness that you had never seen him have before.
RIP Kirstie Alley. Should have been in more than just 1 ST movie.
Unfortunately she wanted too much money to reprise her role for the next film - more than DFK was paid, in fact!
So, noticed one thing.
In the prime timeline;
TOS, TNG, Ect.
Even the Newer shows.
Starfleet never ordered “The Ship” or aka “The Enterprise” to rescue the Kobashi Maru; it was always a distress call that “The Ship” was able to accept or not. It’s Intresting that they were ordered atleast to me
I believe that change was because, as originally designed, the test doesnt include a no win scenario. A good captain could legally and ethically choose to not rescue the Kobayashi Maru. It is a violation of treaty, and thus a major threat to even more civilians, than letting the people on the Kobayashi Maru die. You literally save the lives of your crew and prevent a war. Huge win.
But if you are ordered to rescue them, well you have no outs now. You either disobey a direct order and get court marshalled or you die.
@@yourleftisttesticle I don't think letting 380+ people die horribly is seen as a "huge win" by virtually anyone who is not a soulless robot
@@CrizzyEyes And, much as I don't like Discovery and Strange New Worlds, Pike is right when he states that Starfleet vessels are obligated to respond to distress calls under Federation law. Granted the SNW scenario doesn't involve violating the neutral zone, but the point still stands.
@@yourleftisttesticle Thank you, Left Testicle. I've listened to you and learned something valuable. Sure, letting 380 people die isn't pleasant. But it's worse to throw your own life away along with them. It's like old Kirk says, "klingons not known for taking prisoners". PLUS, what were those 380 people doing in the neutral zone???? Reminds me of these americans who go hiking in the middle east and get kidnapped by terrorists, and then the american government is compelled to go the extreme lengths to try to get them back when they put themselves in that position all on their own. VERY SIMILAR to the PRIME DIRECTIVE!
@@CrizzyEyesPreventing a war with an equal or even more advanced civilization is worth letting 300 deaths to prevent millions.
At least LT. Savvik took this seriously as compared to Cadet Kirk in the 2009 movie.
Would've been much better in the remake if Kirk pretended to be stressed out instead of nonchalantly eating an apple and not putting up shields, etc. It was obvious from the get go that he was not stressed out. The "Shatner Kirk" would've never been that relaxed. He would've acted distressed and sold that he won fair and square.
I never quite got how Kirk (new version) was supposed to magically become captain besides, plot. Like, he never struck me as captain material as lacked the maturity.
@@fastertrackcreativeI know how it happened: bad writers who never spent a day in the navy
Yeah exactly, I thought that scene could have been done waaay better. There was a lot less CGI used than there should have been also.@@jeffreyqatsha6247
According to Wikipedia, the voice of the captain of the Kobayashi Maru is David Ruprecht, 80's character actor, and the longtime host of game show Supermarket Sweep. If it is him, he put on a British accent though.
He sounds like Patrick Allen, the man in the Barratt Homes helicopter adverts, and many other manly voiceover work.
In the original she demanded shields up and weapons energized. In Kirk's version he did not engage shields which meant he did not see them as a threat initiated protocol for treatment and transfer of crew members from the maru and then no shields engaged ( without warning... therefore not generating a response from Klingon protocol) he knows spock always programs humanity as a reason for failure. Hence he didn't act defensive until already on the offense.
She ordered the rescue on her own, Kirk and the rest of the crew was ordered to by Star Fleet. Big difference.
Devising an unsolvable test to teach people a lesson sounds like something someone with either too much pessimism or pride would do.
Might also want to consider Frank Lloyd Wright's quote, “I believe that in the search for the answer, lies the answer.”
Attempting to solve an unsolvable puzzle can provide valuable insights and lessons, despite the ultimate realization that the puzzle cannot be solved.
The journey and the lessons learned along the way are often as valuable as the destination itself. The experience gained from attempting to solve an unsolvable puzzle can enhance your problem-solving skills, mindset, and overall approach to challenges in various aspects of life.
Here are some things that can be learned from such an endeavor:
Problem-Solving Skills
Persistence and Perseverance
Adaptability and Flexibility
Understanding Limits
Enjoyment of the Process
Insights into the Puzzle's Design
Good Luck to you in your StarFleet Training endeavors.
It's something that people who are too caught up in rules, and equate the logic of reality with those rules, such as Vulcans, would do.
Believe it or not, there is somewhat of a basis for it IRL.
While exercises like Red Flag aren't *unbeatable* per say, BLUFOR (good guys, often times the US in these exercises) fights with both hands tied behind their back. Fairly recently, there was supposedly a Philippine FA-50 Golden Eagle (two-seat light attack/trainer aircraft) that beat a Lockheed F-22 in a close-quarters fight.
The F-22 not only had external drop tanks equipped, but also had little reflectors that essentially *negated* the effects of the stealthy design and coatings, thus taking away the Raptor's main advantage (the heavy drop tanks negating the F-22's maneuverability and top speed quite heavily as well).
It's the same with Dissimilar Air Combat Training with large numbers of Skyhawks, Tiger IIs (which the exercise or "dogfight" is often skewed in favor of) etc fighting against a few Tomcats, Eagles, Hornets, Fighting Falcons, etc: The main goal is NOT to win. It's to learn how to deal with threats, employ your weapons/fire control systems properly and with ease, and to train for all possible scenarios
I remember seeing this scene in the theater when the movie first came out, and nobody really knew anything about it. The main characters are all dead, there’s total shocked silence, until one guy loudly says “what the f*ck is going on?!?!”
I knew it was a simulation the way the Captain was acting so cavalier
Wow. Great comparison of the two scenes. How did Hollywood forget how to make movies?
thanks for the upload.nice to see these all in one spot.
Did this movie make the “Apple eating to look more like an asshole” line I’ve heard in Cinmasins so much and then in other movies that do it?
I remember Metallica won a music award, back when MTV was relevant. One guy in the band was eating an apple while they were accepting their award. I don't think it's necessary an azz holio move, it just shows that you are downplaying the importance of the situation. "I'm just gonna eat an apple, because this doesn't require all of my attention."
@@someguy5977
Wow that’d be a funny origin story. where’d he even get that apple from?
@@TheKpa11 Dunno, hotel room service? Probably was carrying it around just for his sixty second TV appearance.
@@someguy5977 I like how you tried to answer where the apple came from. 😂😂
I managed to beam over nearly half the survivors over and take out one of the Klingon ships before getting destroyed. Starfleet Academy was a fun game, wish they'd do a remake.
It's the training mission on Star Trek Bridge crew in VR
I'm impressed with myself that I knew this was about the Kobayashi Maru just from the thumbnail pic. I can't watch Star Trek II enough!
When I was very little, I remember thinking this was a real attack and when Kirk walked in at 3:06.
I thought he was going to take command and save the day.
The Abrahams movie feels like an SNL skit.
Dude, that comparison? What the hell did SNL ever do to you?
To be fair, we don't really see the Kobayashi Maru in Abramstrek. We just see Kirk blatantly sabotaging the test.
That’s Abrams. If you’re going to put down someone else’s hard work, learn to spell. It keeps you from sounding stupid.
I learned a powerful life lesson from kirk : if I can't win at the game , I have to change the conditions of the game .
This worked in my life .
At least consider the possibility of changing the conditions. That alone will allow you to snatch a few victories from otherwise certain defeat scenarios.
Are you able to stay out of prison?
The lessons I learned from Kirk about being a leader are:
Always show outward confidence at all times to subordinates and to make a decision. Indecision is worse than a wrong decision.
@@standardnerd9840 That depends on just how wrong the decision is.
@@SheyD78 I've found that typically, not making A decision yields the same result as making no decision.
This scene would have been a great place to introduce the holodeck. It would explain why all of the old bridge crew were physically in San Fran training cadets if they were mostly holograms.
Kirk to McCoy saying “Physician: Heal thyself.” And then McCoy poses with a smirk 😏 is genuinely funny
Dammit avillager, he's a doctor, not Jesus Christ!!
I kind of hate how they handled the Kobayashi Maru in JJ Abrams Star Trek. Kirk's just way too obvious about cheating and doesn't even try to hide it. He didn't change the program to make it win-able, he changed it to make it not lose-able! That's a big difference!
They rush the scene because they know we know all about it. Trash movie made by people who don't get Star Trek, but do get it more than the clowns after 2009.
I knew about it and thought it could have been done way better than nonchalalently rushing it like we're Gen Zoomers or something.@@HC-cb4yp
I find it hard to believe that you could get away acting so glib and brash in a military organisation as shown in Jar Jar Abrahams Star Trek.
@Scott Alleman I mean in the first thor movie he basically says that his "magic" is just really advanced tech
And in the second one jane knows what the device scanning her is even if she doesn't know how the device itself works
Star Trek is a really good film. Chris Pine is an excellent Kirk
@@robertromero9488boooo
It’s jar jar. He sacrifices good story for more over the top shots.
Yeah on the latter, not so much on the former.@@robertromero9488
It is interesting to note how seriously the test is taken in the original trek…as a military operation, while in new Trek there is a playful tone to voices and Kirk eating an apple… this is at the crux of the difference between the new and old Trek.
In the longer version the computer dialogue also gives the Registry of the Kobayashi Maru as Amber Tau Ceti IV
The very moment you cut to NuTrek and she talks like she is complaining and wants to talk to the manager... that is a no-win scenario.
Is no one going to mention the significant difference of Saavik ordering rescue on her own vs. Kirk and crew were ordered by Star Fleet? Big difference.
"You may have saved the Kobayashi Maru complement, but did you have to take out half of the Enterprise with you?"
In the new version they should have put Kirk on the attacking side of the arguments during the "trial".
Kirk should have said something like:
"I don't believe in no-win scenarios, Mr Spock and neither do you. Neither does sentient life in general. Take Vulcans for example, Mr Spock. A form of life once so violent and emotional that were destined to total eradication due to warfare. A no-win scenario. Along came your Surak, bringing forth a new philosophy based on logic and repressed emotion, therefore saving your soon-to-be-dead species. He 'installed and activated a subroutine in YOUR programming code, thereby changing the conditions of YOUR test (of life)'. Did he cheat? Did Vulcans cheat death?
The original Kirk would have done something like that. We would have turned the argument on itself and gained Spock's respect and friendship in one go.
3:29 Spock doing his best puppy impersonation.
The Kobayashi Maru test is also famous in Japan. "Kobayashi"(小林) is one of the most common names in Japan. "Maru"(丸) is often used at the end of ship names. For example, "Toya maru"(洞爺丸) This is Tokyo.
I have been told that the literal translation is "ship named Kobayashi". I don't know how accurate that is or isn't.
@@robertballasty395 Maru aka 丸 is basically "circle". There's a few explanations behind the usage of the word in ship names. Complicating the matter is that the translation of ship names can be more elaborate than the actual kanji used.
In Star Trek lore, the term Kobayashi Maru simply refers to the name of the ship they needed to rescue. The kanji 小林丸 is translated as "Kobayashi Ship", since the last kanji (丸) is used as a suffix, particularly for naming ships.
If we were to interpret the literal kanji themselves and not base it on movie lore, then the meaning would be like this:
小 = small/little
林 = forest/grove
丸 = round/ circle
Now the literal translation would be something like "small forest circle". But here's a little fun fact, in Japanese, a circle is interpreted as being "complete" or "whole", or in some cases referring to the essence of being"endless" no beginning, no end. So in a more poetical approach, the Kobayashi Maru can be interpreted as an "endless little forest", which perfectly depicts the essence of the test; a seemingly simple task that never ends.
Atleast that's how I interpreted it.
What happens if you choose not to answer the distress call and leave the Kobayashi Maru in the neutral zone? I mean it sounds cruel but it’s a classic case of ‘needs of a few outweigh needs of the many’. While rescuing the ship sounds noble on paper, violating the neutral zone is considered act of war. Is one stranded freighter really worth a war with the Klingon empire and the lives of millions of Federation citizens?
Then it is destroyed in osme novelization I think you face a mutiny by tye crew by doing nothing
It's also possible that the ship isn't actually there (or has been destoryed) and it's a trap.
What about sending a small undetectable craft into the neutral to be able to get on the ship and see the status of the ship and crew
It's a test of character.
If a Captain just ignores the distress call, I think it would show he isn't ready for command.
Think of all the senior crew characters from all the classic shows .... even Data. Would ANY of them just ignore the cries for help.
The books say that this was the solution Sulu used, refusing to help the ship claiming it was a trap, apparently it's the most correct solution that doesn't involve cheating, but it's still technically a loss since the Maru is still destroyed
The simulated death acting in the test is the funniest part for me hahaha
R.I.P. Kristy Alley.
With COVID etc I didn't even know that Kirsty Alley had died. I'm so sad.
Meanwhile in Star Trek Prodigy
Dal: **Starts playing loud music to distract the klingons** I blown up so many times... I see now, the only way out is *CHAOS*
Mainwhile at Nog's.... second test I think? - So, how about we make a deal instead?
And ends up crashing the simulation from going full Ferengi on it.
the book version was better. He reprogrammed the Klingons to recognize him as "THE James T Kirk," and they surrendered to him.
🖖😎👍Very cool on the showing of the Kobayashi Maru senerio scene from the Wrath of Khan and this is still truly one of the greatest Startrek movies ever made indeed; And I myself don't care for the J.J. Universe version of the Kobayashi Maru Test where Kirk gets reprimanded and scolded for changing the format of the test instead of being congratulated and awarded for doing so!.
Thank you my friend
Best course of action? Probably to ignore the distress call. 380 lives lost is nothing compared to the potential billions that will be lost if violating the neutral zone starts a war.
Do you know ANY previous ST Captain who you think would IGNORE a distress call?
Kirk, Picard, Janeway, Sisko, Archer? ... Would any of them say "Switch off that damn cry for help" "I'm too afraid of upsetting the Klingons" ...
I recently came to the revelation that-- Testing an officer with the "Kobayashi Maru" test would be more believable if the officer in command believed they were on an actual mission.
Powerful stuff, good edit.
How mature and well-written the original is compared to the utter bs of new trek.
Chris Pine and the sudden appearance of the apple was way over the top.
"Hey, keep it down over there! I'm trying to experience fear!"
Boy...amen to what you said!!!😊
The original scene has so much suspense to it whereas the supposedly legendary Kirk's stunt feels like a bad sitcom.
@@dd1862seriously tho wtf was with that, i wish there really was an alternate timeline where they didn't make that shlock.
This is a Command Test to examine how you deal with failure. How you die is just as important as how you live❤The insights of Star Trek is often underestimated. Gold is heavy
A strange game
The only winning move is not to play
A striking contrast of the writing / acting of the classic movies with the remakes. Does anyone believe that the Shatner cadet would have taken the test - even after reprogramming - as a joke?
The new Kirk was like the Zack Morris of the future.
Funny. Two hits and the Enterprise loses its shields. Must have been a good weapons officer. 😁
Now fellas, have we recently asked AI, ie. ChatGPT how we would save the Kobayashi Maru? I did😂😂!
And it's answer was????
For a test that implements failure, I see now why Kirk cheated his way to win.
So wait, the purpose of the test in the 2009 movie is...to scare cadets or something?
The original was a test of the cadets' character, how they handle themselves, their own ship and their own crew in such high stress fatal situations, whether or not they choose to engage the problem or not. I don't know what "teaching them fear in the face of certain death" is supposed to achieve.
Well it's to teach them to adapt to certain situation find a way to win by either losing or from failures. Its like using your knowledge of the enemies to exploit, adapt and win.
It makes no sense. It's just 'Learning to Fail'...
I don't believe the Kelvin timeline should have changed Kirk getting a commendation for his cheat. I think it was the only way to have tension between Kirk and Spock and use it as a plot point. As a result, Kirk met the elder Spock who could get him back on to the Enterprise and find a way to captain the ship. This and the inexplicable reason Pike made a near-kicked out cadet be 1st officer to Spock above everyone else, which provided a path to said captaincy.
I liked this movie and watched it several times, but I'm hoping they find a way to have a solid Kelvin-timeline Star Trek IV and not get lazy for the sake of earning a ton of money.
Kirk really said:
"Nah, I'd win."
The one question no one thought to ask; what the hell was the Kobayashi Maru doing in the Neutral Zone in the first place?
Running drugs.
I think one of the novels explains that the Kobayashi Maru is supposed to be a fuel tanker that accidentally struck a Klingon mine and drifted into the Neutral Zone.
Another question: what the hell are the Klingons doing in the Neutral Zone??
I also find it hard to believe that an emotionless Vulcan could accurately program a scenario that's intended to induce fear.
@@ralphm6901 Not true. Spock points out that the test has a logical purpose: to determine if a cadet has the discipline to command a ship in chaos.
@@daigneauray7087 at 8:45 Spock says "the purpose is to experience fear, fear in the face of certain death"
That is an amazingly tiny "Neutral Zone".....
Saavik was so cute.
No one gave Uhura permission to respond to the ship's distress signal. That started this whole clusterfuck.
That's a moot point, and its not in alignment with SOP.
1. For Kobayashi Maru Scenario: Uhura is a part/program of the test. She is performing her standard functions, and following established SOP.
2. In real world practice: Show regulations, or SOP, requiring Comms to "request clearance" for any, or every emergency Comms scenario situation. If there is none... and the Captain has not already specifically ordered Comms at one time or another to, "Await Authorization", then the excuse is not SOP. Procedure is either SOP, or its not.
Since Uhura is the ships Chief Communications Director, She is over that section. She's the Senior Supervisor for that Position/Section/Department. She decides; UNLESS her C/O (Capt., or the First Officer) specifically orders her not to, or gives her an alternative to SOP.
I cannot speak to Military applications, only Civilian apps. Since Starfleet constantly crows that its NOT a military organization, then we'd need to assume that their SOP aligns with what professional civilian, para-military organizations (Law Enforcement, emergency services, NASA) do to operate in simular situations.
Of course its just a sci-fi movie, and if they wanted, they could kiss their own a**es if dramatic licence called for it.
Intriguing, a Vulcan establishes the need for ALL Star Fleet Captains (Including all Vulcan Captains) To feel fear in a "no win situation" before overcoming it. Fascinating, and hypocritical.
“you’ve never faced death”
How is a simulator supposed to qualify as facing death? The whole point of the simulator is that there are no permanent consequences for mistakes.
The most dangerous questions of all (what if)
Yeah, except I don't think james kirk would have been so stupid as the new kirk to think that he could just make the simulation reset mid-battle while he playfully eats an apple and the klingons are destroyed after it. I mean, the real kirk wasn't so stupid to think there could be no consequences or that anyone would believe it was all real and not investigate it. So a very dumb plot hole.
The name Kobayashi was taken from Cornel Kobayashi who lead Japanese force on Iwo Jima. He was given the task to defend Iwo Jima without hope of reinforcements thus a no win senerio.
The original was SO much better. Shatner's portrayal is great. The flippant way they did it in the new version is just garbage.
She's amazing
The tone shift from classic to modern is so jarring, I though *I* was hit with a proton torpedo!
1🇺🇸🌈🎄💪🥷🏽🏈 OMFG!!! YALL THIS ISNT THE WAR VESSEL TRAINING CLASS...THEN WHERE DO I LAY MY BAG OF SKULLS YO...
How Kirk cheated to win was explained in one of the Star Trek novels, but I can't remember which one or who the author was.
Hilarious that this is a test every officer has taken but somehow new cadets are unaware of it.
Kirk was aware.
Still random that Tylor Parrey was in This Movie, But a Welcomed One 😊
Rules be damned if you can find a way for all to survive. Its how he commanded, how he saved earth and how he brought Spock back from death.
The efficacy of this test after a year or two would be questionable. Every cadet would know it was coming and the details of the encounter, as word gets around. Very quickly, it would only test how well you prepare for the scenario, not how you respond to it. It would have to be completely random and unexpected each time to have any meaning, but even then, every cadet would know well ahead of time it always ends in failure.
I'll give you an example of Kobyashi Maru in real life. During the Vietnam War, the US had a treaty agreement with Cambodia that it would not conduct wartime operations over Cambodia. However, the US had a problem with the ever elusive Ho Chi Minh trail, a supply line from the NVA (North Vietnamese Army) to the VietCong operatives in the south. When the trail shifted to running through parts of Cambodia, the US became desperate, resorting to black ops because they knew well how much more harm a well resupplied Viet Cong could inflict on US troops in the south. So, commanders in the field "strongly requested" helicopter crews to bomb the trail where it ran through Cambodia. They were also told if they were shot down, the US would deny having given authorization to do so and no rescue attempt would be made. So, why would anyone from those helicopter crews in their right minds be willing to go along with this, knowing they're being given illegal orders? They felt a commitment to help out their fellow US troops in the south who were struggling in dire circumstances, essentially saving US lives by breaking the Ho Chi Minh trail. Not a rescue operation, per se, as in the Kobyashi Maru. But, the intent is still the same with a military force going to extreme lengths to save lives of their own.
i would love to see Academy Commandant Madea.
Is this a documentary?
I knew it was advanced in Singapore but wow these guys have spaceships!
I prefer the Starfleet Academy game version where Kirk programmed the Klingons to respect him as a warrior.
This just made me wanna watch Star Trek 😂😂😂 never seen it before
"The purpose is to experience fear" ...said the Vulcan
Alley shouldve stayed in space 😅 she went to pot , on Earth😅😅
I think every guy has experienced their own Kobayashi Maru. Oh, Mary Sue ... 💔
The problem with this exercise is that once you know the trick it just becomes a pointless waste of time. The moment you know you can't win, simulation loses any purpose. And in later movies and series, everyone acts like its common knowledge.
KRISTY WAS ONE OF THE BEST
😅🤷🏻♂️🥹 When Uhura lost the distress signal, did anybody else besides me think that the "Kobyashi Maru" was a trap set by the Klingons?! 😂😂😂
Dam the torpedoes, and step on it!
Never noticed this before. Spock is looking at that 3D simulated Enterprise and studying it but there is no information provided. Next Uhura seems to be talking to him and he is completely ignoring her.
My understanding is that the Kobayashi Maru test was a part of the curriculum for the Starfleet Command School not the Academy itself originally.
she did the eyebrow thing admirably
I think Kirsty Alley was also in a show called CHeers too.
You don’t lose until you do. Or you don’t win except when you lose. Either way, the Kobayashi Maru is an exercise in futility. Just play it to stalemate.
Oh crap, it's the Klingon cruisers from the first movie!!!