For me, the defining aspect of the Pak'ma'ra was demonstrated when Londo gave the terms of the Narn surrender. As Londo denoted that the murder of any Centauri by any Narn would mean the death of 500 Narn, including the Narn's own family, the Pak'ma'ra ambassador -- in a clear piece of body language -- recoiled in revulsion and hatred. Any species which rates family as highly as that can be negotiated with by humans, at least. Despite their odious personal habit defined by evolution and biology.
@@jeanettecarnell8933 Unless they decided to adopt Gregorian chants and use massive amounts of deodorant, then no; Pak'mar'a have a distinctive smell and apparently don't like to learn other languages . . . I personally adhere to the "monks" being a telepathic/telekinetic projection by Kosh himself.
To be a major power takes more than technology and the economic might, it takes cultural inertia, political will and strategic skill. The league worlds have the ability to become powerful but lack the will. Drazi are infamously tough and fierce, but they are protective and insular, fighting themselves mostly. They are a 'Brown-water navy'. Brakiri have the biggest ships but their culture is ruled by merchant guilds and demand their vessels also act as cargo ship, diplomatic envoys, explorers. They ended up with a big ship that was hilariously undergunned. Gaim struggle with the concept of void and focus on ground based war. Hych strategy boils down to 'send some ships at the enemy'. Pak Mara aren't aggressive enough to conquer anything. Beye focus entirely on defending their worlds. Vree lack the experience to build effective ships. So the league worlds are entirely capable of becoming a major power, but each is limited by their own cultural and political mindset.
The voting structure on the show is based on the UN security council where the permanent five members (Britain, France, Russia, China and USA) each have a veto while there are 10 other members from amongst the UN members on a rotating elected basis who have a vote but dont have a veto. It was structured this way because as on earth the big five are the only ones with the military power to conduct peacekeeping and interventions while all the other members would have to rely on support from at least one of the big five to do so.
I’ve read that the Vree have an odd sense of humor. They still find it hilarious how much of an impact their one visit to Earth in the 1940s had on the human culture. Besides artificial gravity, they are the only younger race besides the Minbari to master antimatter (presumably thanks to studying Minbari tech). Their ships are powered by antimatter, and their more advanced saucers (the ones with blue glowing lines) use antimatter weapons
@@TheRealRetroBeard yes, but they didn’t quite figure out how to use it for propulsion. So they just used it to lower their ships’ effective mass and used conventional engines to greater effect. The only younger races to master gravity propulsion are Minbari and Vree
All things considered, Babylon 5 had far more believable alien races than the first two Star Trek series. On Babylon 5 only the Centauri were extremely human-like, while on Star Trek all the "aliens of the week" were often distinguished from humans only by a ridged nose or pointed ears (and the Klingons in the original series were only oddly dressed when if you look closely). On Babylon 5, the screenwriters also tried a lot more to give all races a distinct identity and not just some glaring cultural differences from humans. I hope the reboot lives up to the high standards of the old Babylon 5 series.
It just has to be said. You have to be good at war to really join the big boys races in Babylon 5. Maybe the shadows weren't so wrong after all. All the big four races have massive militaries that are very experienced.
I find it weird that the Centauri would consider the Pak'mara homeworld a lower-end planet to keep, what with the Quantium-40. As for the Gaim, I would think the fact that they know how to make 500 megaton nukes would make them more notable.
I'm pretty sure the ship you showed when talking about the Abai is actually an Ipsha ship. I don't think they ever showed any Abai ships in the entire show. As for the voting system, we know for sure that the members of the advisory council all participated in the financing of the Babylon Project, but the League did not. From this my speculation is that because of it's mission to bring peace, the League was granted voting power. But due to them already being in an alliance and because the advisory races didn't want to give up too much of their own power, the League was given a combined seat as a compromise, instead of each race being given a seat of their own.
I'm only a couple of minutes in . But I assumed it advisory and league thing , goes back to the dillgar war and budget contributions to the Babylon project. I thought the dilgar invaded and the races formed the league in mutual defense but where losing until earth intervened
To my knowledge it started after the Dilgar war. Very similar to how the Interstellar alliance started. They realized that they were stronger together so they combined forces against the Dilgar and after the war the treaty was finalized.
@@UtopianBroadcast1 yes . I believe they were still losing until earth launched an invasion in support of the league , which was the source of human popularity originally
@@UtopianBroadcast1 yes I thought that earth gained a lot of territory and had a military larger than the league on the same level as centaur and barn at lest
Sure they use really powerful technologies, but their ships are in my opinion rather poorly designed, leaving them with lots of blind spots a skilled enemy can easily exploit. Their most powerful ship has an impressive weapon mounted to it's underside.... that can only shoot in a very limited arc. And no weapons anywhere else on the ship. That would leave them very vulnerable against missile and fighter-attacks, as well as pincer movements. No wonder they weren't able to put up much resistence against the Dilgar fleets, despite their theoretical technological superiority.
Vree are armchair admirals. Their ships are fast and have a big gun, but an experience commander would instantly spot the weaknesses. Like novices the Vree think the two sides will line up and trade shots. But in the fluid environment of battle the Vree would be cut to ribbons by outflanking forces.
@@Norbert_Sattler they were quite clearly far and away the fastest sub-c and most manoeuvrable capital ships - except possibly the Shadow vessels - so that goes a long way to overcome both the limited firing arc and lack of point defence.
@@kanyefuck7018 Sure it's not completely useless, but you could easily design a MUCH better ship with the same technology. Take out either their single gun or their engines and they are completely helpless. And if they are faced with an enemy of equal or greater speed and manouverbility, they are just screwed. Not to mention that in order to his something they need to expose their biggest target signature to them, making being hit in return far more likely. If they had mounted the weapon somewhere on the front or side, they would be a much smaller target for return fire.
That League RPG book is wrong in one thing, those weird green ships are actually Ipsha War Globes, their ships look different; there is some art and miniatures in the B5 Wars Supplements and even other RPG Books made by Mongoose.
i have to think the assorted individual shortcomings must be very intentional on the writers parts, since they can all get over all of them by coming together
so before watching the video my assumption is that for whatever reason each of the NAW was limited in some way probaly that they have only their own world or at most their own solar system under their control (yes some of them may be older but maybe they had a non expansionist policy or they never developed FTL so were confined to their own systems or they were from the perspective of a CIV or stellaris player unlucky enough to spawn next to another player making expansion next to impossible).
@@shanenolan8252 www.scribd.com/document/160809559/Babylon-5-RPG-1st-Ed-The-League-of-Non-Aligned-Worlds scribd has a 30 day free trial. as for ones not there becareful of download sites. lots of them have browser hijacks or malware, trojan horses or redirect you to where you don't want to go to get infested with those things
The roleplaying game material is interesting, but it's no longer canon--and that comes from JMS himself. Plus, a lot of the material contradicts what's in the show. The Vree are supposed to be the stereotypical "Greys" that ufo experts describe. They're mysterious, inscrutable, and have powerful ships and advanced tech. And that's about it, though there was another group of "Greys" that were allied with the shadows. Are they related? Who knows?
@@CelBloxICF the humanoid gaim we see in the show are a minority purpose breed to deal with alien species through diplomacy, trade, intel gathering etc. they didn't have to make them two legged they just saw that bipeds seemed to comprise a good portion of the more dominant species.
@@toomanyaccounts Where are you guys getting this info from? Are there Babylon 5 books? Edit:Duh, I just googled it. Which book is the best to start with?
OK the 1 vs1 i not real seen is b5 vs star wars and not just 1 on 1 ships but fleet fights and on b5 and star trec the real ???? is if b5 end up in trev world not be who win but who would join who as the minbari and the centauri both are cast and house base so they cant join the fed so who do they team up with..earth force would most deff join up with the fed. but then you got the narn the other smaller powers and then the big 2 shadows and vorlon who do they join up with...Think about what would happen to the fed with both jump eng and the ship yards of earth force as earth force has way more ship yards that can pump out new ships think of a fed with a fleet of 20-30k ships at time just after the first tv show and able to replace that many in way less time then they can now..
Age has nothing to do with power. Look at the real world, the USA is a young country, but quickly became the most powerful force on Earth. San Marino is the oldest country, but hardly a grand Terran power. Rome was once the greatest, but is now no more. The British Empire and the Concert of Europe once ruled the Earth, but are now tourist attractions under the defense umbrella of the USA. China is old, was powerful, became backwards, but is now on the rise again. The fates of peoples and nations, like living things, ebb and flow, wax and wane, with the passage of time.
Yes, in the Real world that would be true but in Babylon 5 that's not always the case. For example, in the show the explanations on why the minibar, shadows, vorlons, and the other first are so powerful is due to their age which gave them the time to grow. Not completley realistic but that's what we were given. We do get some realistic races such as the vree who are as old as the first ones but never really want to grow. So its 50/50 when it comes to Babylon 5. Lol
Very true. The Dilgar were a very young race, but grew into a major power within a generation were able to conquer most of the League. Humans are similar. Very young, but ambition and crafty race.
Thanks for posting this. B5 was ahead of its time and doesn’t get the attention it deserves.
It had one of the best cast of characters that have ever been on tv together.
they just released a remaster on Amazon
It's still light-years ahead of every other franchise in history JMS wrote the entire 5-year story, front to back. ST can't say that.
When the Sidekickraces are more developed then the mainraces in other shows.
For me, the defining aspect of the Pak'ma'ra was demonstrated when Londo gave the terms of the Narn surrender. As Londo denoted that the murder of any Centauri by any Narn would mean the death of 500 Narn, including the Narn's own family, the Pak'ma'ra ambassador -- in a clear piece of body language -- recoiled in revulsion and hatred. Any species which rates family as highly as that can be negotiated with by humans, at least. Despite their odious personal habit defined by evolution and biology.
I recall that once a year the Pakmara sing,it is supposed to be beautiful.i wondered if they were the monks that Kosh had sSheradin listen to?
Also,that because other races tended to ignor that they found their place with the Rangers.
@@jeanettecarnell8933 Unless they decided to adopt Gregorian chants and use massive amounts of deodorant, then no; Pak'mar'a have a distinctive smell and apparently don't like to learn other languages . . . I personally adhere to the "monks" being a telepathic/telekinetic projection by Kosh himself.
@@jeanettecarnell8933 Yes; they are the types to be perfectly unnoticed and not considered as anything important.
To be a major power takes more than technology and the economic might, it takes cultural inertia, political will and strategic skill. The league worlds have the ability to become powerful but lack the will.
Drazi are infamously tough and fierce, but they are protective and insular, fighting themselves mostly. They are a 'Brown-water navy'.
Brakiri have the biggest ships but their culture is ruled by merchant guilds and demand their vessels also act as cargo ship, diplomatic envoys, explorers. They ended up with a big ship that was hilariously undergunned.
Gaim struggle with the concept of void and focus on ground based war.
Hych strategy boils down to 'send some ships at the enemy'.
Pak Mara aren't aggressive enough to conquer anything.
Beye focus entirely on defending their worlds.
Vree lack the experience to build effective ships.
So the league worlds are entirely capable of becoming a major power, but each is limited by their own cultural and political mindset.
The voting structure on the show is based on the UN security council where the permanent five members (Britain, France, Russia, China and USA) each have a veto while there are 10 other members from amongst the UN members on a rotating elected basis who have a vote but dont have a veto. It was structured this way because as on earth the big five are the only ones with the military power to conduct peacekeeping and interventions while all the other members would have to rely on support from at least one of the big five to do so.
And the big five where the major Allied powers during WWII.
E p
P
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I’ve read that the Vree have an odd sense of humor. They still find it hilarious how much of an impact their one visit to Earth in the 1940s had on the human culture.
Besides artificial gravity, they are the only younger race besides the Minbari to master antimatter (presumably thanks to studying Minbari tech). Their ships are powered by antimatter, and their more advanced saucers (the ones with blue glowing lines) use antimatter weapons
The Centauri had antigravity also.
@@TheRealRetroBeard yes, but they didn’t quite figure out how to use it for propulsion. So they just used it to lower their ships’ effective mass and used conventional engines to greater effect. The only younger races to master gravity propulsion are Minbari and Vree
Nicely done! I loved every minute of this video ! I learned a lot! Thank you for keeping Babylon 5 alive !😎👍
just been remastered released last week
All things considered, Babylon 5 had far more believable alien races than the first two Star Trek series. On Babylon 5 only the Centauri were extremely human-like, while on Star Trek all the "aliens of the week" were often distinguished from humans only by a ridged nose or pointed ears (and the Klingons in the original series were only oddly dressed when if you look closely). On Babylon 5, the screenwriters also tried a lot more to give all races a distinct identity and not just some glaring cultural differences from humans. I hope the reboot lives up to the high standards of the old Babylon 5 series.
Babylon forever 👍
It's amazing that the Brakiri (@9:00) and Drazi (@7:00) live on almost identical planets (Brakiri planet is more stretched). ;-)
even the location names are the same, but stretched
Haha i loved it when you said the Gaim are growing their fleet which is probably literally true growing ships like the Wraith from Stargate Atlantis
Can you do a video about the Farscape Galaxy and the factions and locations?
Sure, gives me an excuse to bench watch the series again. Lol
@@UtopianBroadcast1
Thank you.
It just has to be said. You have to be good at war to really join the big boys races in Babylon 5. Maybe the shadows weren't so wrong after all.
All the big four races have massive militaries that are very experienced.
I find it weird that the Centauri would consider the Pak'mara homeworld a lower-end planet to keep, what with the Quantium-40. As for the Gaim, I would think the fact that they know how to make 500 megaton nukes would make them more notable.
Thanks. Happy new year. Hope your holidays went well . Great subject
I'm pretty sure the ship you showed when talking about the Abai is actually an Ipsha ship. I don't think they ever showed any Abai ships in the entire show.
As for the voting system, we know for sure that the members of the advisory council all participated in the financing of the Babylon Project, but the League did not.
From this my speculation is that because of it's mission to bring peace, the League was granted voting power. But due to them already being in an alliance and because the advisory races didn't want to give up too much of their own power, the League was given a combined seat as a compromise, instead of each race being given a seat of their own.
the ship in the book is similar. both the Abbai and Iksha are amphibious species.
Excellent book. It is part of a dozen+ books. The Ranger book is the best, I'm my opinion.
Good vlog.
I still love this video after all this time.
It's well thought out and explained easier for people 👍
Vree ships were on point during Shadow war though, unlike Brakhiri haha
I'm only a couple of minutes in . But I assumed it advisory and league thing , goes back to the dillgar war and budget contributions to the Babylon project. I thought the dilgar invaded and the races formed the league in mutual defense but where losing until earth intervened
To my knowledge it started after the Dilgar war. Very similar to how the Interstellar alliance started. They realized that they were stronger together so they combined forces against the Dilgar and after the war the treaty was finalized.
@@UtopianBroadcast1 yes . I believe they were still losing until earth launched an invasion in support of the league , which was the source of human popularity originally
True. I always found it interesting that the human never joined the league. I guess they didnt need their help.
@@UtopianBroadcast1 yes I thought that earth gained a lot of territory and had a military larger than the league on the same level as centaur and barn at lest
@@UtopianBroadcast1 it is called the Earth Alliance meaning Earth is the head. EA is more powerful then the league worlds.
I always thought the Advisory council where the main funders of Babylon Project so get a bigger say
PS> the plural of Narn, is Narn. Like with deer, you wouldn't say "deers" when referring to multiple deer.
Thanks :)
You forgot one of the more interesting (and, sadly, later extinct) nations of the League. ;-)
Markab and Hyach were not included.
The vree has very powerful ships . Probably 2nd on to the minbari.
Yah the antimatter weapon on their saucer was looked pretty effective in the shadow wars.
Sure they use really powerful technologies, but their ships are in my opinion rather poorly designed, leaving them with lots of blind spots a skilled enemy can easily exploit.
Their most powerful ship has an impressive weapon mounted to it's underside.... that can only shoot in a very limited arc. And no weapons anywhere else on the ship.
That would leave them very vulnerable against missile and fighter-attacks, as well as pincer movements.
No wonder they weren't able to put up much resistence against the Dilgar fleets, despite their theoretical technological superiority.
Vree are armchair admirals. Their ships are fast and have a big gun, but an experience commander would instantly spot the weaknesses. Like novices the Vree think the two sides will line up and trade shots. But in the fluid environment of battle the Vree would be cut to ribbons by outflanking forces.
@@Norbert_Sattler they were quite clearly far and away the fastest sub-c and most manoeuvrable capital ships - except possibly the Shadow vessels - so that goes a long way to overcome both the limited firing arc and lack of point defence.
@@kanyefuck7018 Sure it's not completely useless, but you could easily design a MUCH better ship with the same technology.
Take out either their single gun or their engines and they are completely helpless. And if they are faced with an enemy of equal or greater speed and manouverbility, they are just screwed.
Not to mention that in order to his something they need to expose their biggest target signature to them, making being hit in return far more likely. If they had mounted the weapon somewhere on the front or side, they would be a much smaller target for return fire.
The Pak'mara was my favorite alien species in Babylon 5
That League RPG book is wrong in one thing, those weird green ships are actually Ipsha War Globes, their ships look different; there is some art and miniatures in the B5 Wars Supplements and even other RPG Books made by Mongoose.
The Drazi shuffle is fun to play in Babylon 5 wars
i have to think the assorted individual shortcomings must be very intentional on the writers parts, since they can all get over all of them by coming together
Fascinating and Intriguing! 🖖🏻
Green Whack Purple. Purple whack green
so before watching the video my assumption is that for whatever reason each of the NAW was limited in some way probaly that they have only their own world or at most their own solar system under their control (yes some of them may be older but maybe they had a non expansionist policy or they never developed FTL so were confined to their own systems or they were from the perspective of a CIV or stellaris player unlucky enough to spawn next to another player making expansion next to impossible).
Very well done, thanks
No Hyach?!?!?!?!??! The most advanced races are the Hyach and the Yolu in the League.
Is there any information on Nagraths Insectoid Species just curious?
Why do the time stamps spell race names wrong like "pakmaw", "game" and "drowsy"?
Is this all from official sources? So much new info. I recall the RPG books were full of background info but probably 23 years since I've seen them.
So if the non-aligned worlds form a League of Non-Aligned Worlds are the still non-aligned?
What about the other races in the non-aligned league ?
The Vree are the Ferengi.
Not the Brakiri?
Weren't the vree the grays? They were still being sued for abducting people on earth. What was their goals?
The Vree seem to be motivated by an interesting mix of Scientific study and LOLS.
At 0:45 you spelled technology wrong. 😬 Oops.
А как насчёт рассказать обо всех из Лиги ?
You misspelled technology, "techonolgy" at 0:42
A lot of this is new information for me thanks
it is from the rpg sourcebooks. you can find a lot of them on scribd.
@@toomanyaccounts thanks
@@shanenolan8252 www.scribd.com/document/160809559/Babylon-5-RPG-1st-Ed-The-League-of-Non-Aligned-Worlds
scribd has a 30 day free trial. as for ones not there becareful of download sites. lots of them have browser hijacks or malware, trojan horses or redirect you to where you don't want to go to get infested with those things
The roleplaying game material is interesting, but it's no longer canon--and that comes from JMS himself. Plus, a lot of the material contradicts what's in the show. The Vree are supposed to be the stereotypical "Greys" that ufo experts describe. They're mysterious, inscrutable, and have powerful ships and advanced tech. And that's about it, though there was another group of "Greys" that were allied with the shadows. Are they related? Who knows?
🤷♂️
👍👍👍❤❤❤
Same nonsensical planet map shown as the homeworld of multiple races.
Did the Gaim fly Narn ships?
The Narn were known to be arms dealers who sold weapons and ships to many races.
Also, the Narns alot of their ships and weapons were left behind during their invasion of the Gaim homeworld
@@UtopianBroadcast1 You sir are the official lord of Babylon 5 knowledge.
@@CelBloxICF the humanoid gaim we see in the show are a minority purpose breed to deal with alien species through diplomacy, trade, intel gathering etc. they didn't have to make them two legged they just saw that bipeds seemed to comprise a good portion of the more dominant species.
@@toomanyaccounts Where are you guys getting this info from? Are there Babylon 5 books?
Edit:Duh, I just googled it. Which book is the best to start with?
The Ood from Doctor Who look a lot like the Pak'ma'ra. Sounds like another idea was stolen from Babylon 5.
They even stole the idea of them heaving a beautiful and melancholic singing voice!
Please also upload to bitchute/rumble or others as we are leaving yt.
OK the 1 vs1 i not real seen is b5 vs star wars and not just 1 on 1 ships but fleet fights and on b5 and star trec the real ???? is if b5 end up in trev world not be who win but who would join who as the minbari and the centauri both are cast and house base so they cant join the fed so who do they team up with..earth force would most deff join up with the fed. but then you got the narn the other smaller powers and then the big 2 shadows and vorlon who do they join up with...Think about what would happen to the fed with both jump eng and the ship yards of earth force as earth force has way more ship yards that can pump out new ships think of a fed with a fleet of 20-30k ships at time just after the first tv show and able to replace that many in way less time then they can now..
What?
Age has nothing to do with power. Look at the real world, the USA is a young country, but quickly became the most powerful force on Earth. San Marino is the oldest country, but hardly a grand Terran power. Rome was once the greatest, but is now no more. The British Empire and the Concert of Europe once ruled the Earth, but are now tourist attractions under the defense umbrella of the USA. China is old, was powerful, became backwards, but is now on the rise again. The fates of peoples and nations, like living things, ebb and flow, wax and wane, with the passage of time.
Yes, in the Real world that would be true but in Babylon 5 that's not always the case. For example, in the show the explanations on why the minibar, shadows, vorlons, and the other first are so powerful is due to their age which gave them the time to grow. Not completley realistic but that's what we were given. We do get some realistic races such as the vree who are as old as the first ones but never really want to grow. So its 50/50 when it comes to Babylon 5. Lol
There is a difference between the fortunes of a nation and the fortunes of an entire species.
Very true. The Dilgar were a very young race, but grew into a major power within a generation were able to conquer most of the League. Humans are similar. Very young, but ambition and crafty race.
@@UtopianBroadcast1 Indeed. The Minbari are the Elves of Babylon 5.
Maybe learn how to pronounce the names of races
It's Gaim, not Game
We're leaving censortube and your channel hasn't diversified so there is no place to transfer our subs to. unsubbing now.
Based on the show:
Pak'Ma'Ra is pronounced 'Puk-ma-ra'
Abbai seems to be pronounced as you said.