Apparently (from what I was told about Star Trek Lore), Kahless "The Unforgettable" designed the Bat'leth with intentional drawbacks to make it difficult and unwieldy. The purpose for this was that, by mastering such a difficult weapon and overcome it's inefficiencies, a Klingon would master himself through technique, discipline, rituals and tradition. Through the Bat'Leth, klingons kept in check their aggression in combat basically. This is how Kahless' Clan dominated, and why it is a widespread weapon on Klingon; not because it's a good weapon, but because if it's history and purpose to Klingons specifically. When Kingons have easy to use practical weapons, their aggression and bloodlust in combat makes then over reach and leave themselves open during combat... with the Bat'leth, Klingons always have to think about technique, correct form and defense. This would make the warrior more disciplined in combat then a Klingon that used more practical weapons, but would also lose himself to bloodlust and overreach, compromising his defense. The weapon evolved with the species, which is what makes it so iconic.
As with all martial arts there is a lot of lore. We can never be sure what of the stories would have been real (in-universe thinking). So our approach here was just from the (bio-)mechanical side. I agree that approaching it more form the in-universe historical point would be worthwhile. For example, I still have trouble understanding how the Bat'leth evolved from the Kahless version to the now so common three handle version.
@@kitsune-klan well it's likely that the one handle version was having issues with either warping or cracking etc so they put they put the extra bits of metal in to strengthen it where it was likely breaking
It's also worth noting that in the same episode of TNG that showed much of Kahless, it was said that Kahless gave the forms of the Mok'bara, the only canonically listed Klingon martial art - and it's literally just Tai Chi. So again, designed to counteract their natural aggression.
i was sceptical at first, but you have a good point. the focus on typical sword aspects, because it's called "klingon sword", was also my problem with the other videos. in your video you can clearly see more fighting style like halfsword or even more poleaxe-like. thanks for taking the time to make this video.
Brilliant practical experimentation and exposition. As a swordsman, in my view, what you have done with the logical blade movement in line with its balance/heft and the utilization of German and other sword techniques show the Bat'leth to be a viable, and potentially ideal close-quarters weapon for disarms and half-swording/grappling type situations. Good work.
The thing about the Bat'leth, is that it's popularity is based not only on it's supposed in universe effectiveness, but it's ritual and historical quality. Klingon's who go into ACTUAL battle with the weapon tend to be looking to make a name for themselves, generally they are all armed with disruptors (energy pistols), because why wouldn't they be? They use it mainly for duels, ceremony, and training, and it all goes back to kahless using it in more ancient times. If kahless used a pitched fork they would all be using pitchforks.
The pitched fork would have not been useful onboard spaceships. I think there are several factors (for example that the Bat'leth works in short range combat in halfsword), but, yes, history will have been one.
Once I got away from the idea of the bat'leth being a "Klingon sword" and saw it as a martial arts weapon, I discovered that what you say in this video is true--it is NOT wielded like a sword! As Worf says, "make it an extension of your arm, a part of you"; let the shape of the weapon guide you in the way it's used in combat.
Good that you agree, yet this saying is found in a lot of martial arts, with a lot of weapons. Also in other pop-culture, for example in Avatar Sokka's master also says this for the sword...
I think people should also look at stick weapons like shillelagh. They use the bottom handle to parry and attack with the top. These sword guys only think of sword movements.
Good point. I still think this is a sword-like object and therefore can best borrow from a sword, but I indeed have something on the Irish stick in preparation....
@kitsune-klan the short stick is still very sword like. Sword guys become distance and point focused because of the effectiveness of thrusts. Stick guys use thrusts, but don't become so fixed. The sword has a cross guard, so they rely on specific protection for parries. Stick guys know your hand is still in danger. Defense against thrusts with a sword is very different from stick defense, especially short stick like whip stick or shillelagh vs Bo or other longer sticks. If you watch the other videos, they all had lots of trouble vs direct thrusts. I don't recall anyone having any kind of actual answer.
You make some very good points. I haven't seen the bat'leth used like that before, but it seems a lot more natural and flowing than the usual manner. My personal hypothesis is that the bat'leth was inspired largely by a rare Chinese weapon called (in English) "cicada wings blade" or sometimes "heaven and earth blade" or "sun and moon crescent blade". Essentially a jo-length pole with a curved blade on both ends, with crescent-moon hand guards on the handle between each blade. I think looking at the movements and applications of that weapon will inspire use of the bat'leth in a different way to historical European perspectives.
Huh. Very interesting theory. I don't know that I've ever seen an edge on that side of the weapon but it would certainly make sense out of some of the maneuvers used on screen. I've always thought that the frontal hooks would be useful for catching shields or other weapons, creating an opening for a thrust with the points. But I gotta say I'm impressed with your demo clips. Really wish I had a sparring blade to test with.
Nice video. And you have amazing points. Shad keeps trying to make the batleth something it's not. I agree with you here, and many of your demonstrations show a lot of the potential the weapon has. The outer prongs having a sharpened outer edge eliminates a lot of issues and open it up for more functionality.
Tag Shadiversity and or contact him on this topic. It should be fun. The skill level is a huge point with the Bathleb. You need Training with it to use its potential similar to Chinese Tigerhooks. They are akward at first but when u understand their use they are freaking deadly and versitile.
I was a teenager back when TNG came out, lucky us for my peer group our parents were self-employed carpenters' construction workers. So, we had more than a few plywood cut Bat'leth growing up. As for Ds9, they mention Kalas used his bat'leth to plow his father's fields, and reap the grains for beer & bread. Carve a wooden statue of his wife. Well, other than the statue wood carving, we had multiple bat'leth from single sheet cut stock steel along with hammering drawing leaf spring steel into this large multiple edge pointed weapon. And we did vegetable gardening work with them, cause why not. Along with cutting weeds. Shad likes to talk and run his mouth at times, it brings a smile to my face when he trashes talks weapons/tools I grew up with. My family had multiple acres of woodland and long tree lines, translates to a lot of yard work cutting back the hedge line each month. So I had .. years .. of learning how to cut with bat'leth swings, along with a length of rebar steel with a 3in edge grind onto on end. Slow practice draws the steel rod from the cardboard duct tape sheaf and tip cut the tree branch and resheaf the blade. Rapier or katana quick draw cut becomes a joke after a few years. As for full contact sport with proper body armor, Shad said many times he take a baseball bat over nunchucks let alone a bat'leth. On the other hand I know how to use nunchucks to full effect because they go over shields and hit targets in the back of their necks. Proper weight nunchucks hit with a few hundred pounds of force that you don't have to put your whole body behind. Baseball bat vs bat'leth, .. please the bat'leth is built to block a swing from just about anything unlike a baseball bat. Also just playing with plywood cut out, I seen too many hook-on wrist disarms and partial joint wrist dislocations to think bat'leths are useless. Now as for the .. sling, ... yeah I can sling chunks of dirt at Shad with a stick all day long. 6lbs of earth coming at you at 30mph is no joke. And that is low speed launching at target.
@@kitsune-klan As teenager we had anger issues, dislocate your brother wrist, he get pizzed drops his weapon and just tackles and beats the F-ck out of you. Full plat armor class 20 or zer0 for old school means nothing compared to your touch armor defense and tackle take downs. Now as an adult in my twenties doing foam weapon larp or plastic baseball fights, even if you think you have proper footwear, we slip and tripped on all types of ground. Damp morning dew grass, dry grass cover by wind blow dust, dirt, and just have to love pollen. Lightly rain wet grass ... We avoid mud, mud is just bad all around. Slipping & sliding in mud seem fun at first but over the years of trying to slow or brace your fall, you just learn to pull your arms to your chest and turn to land on your back, less chance of hand & arm injuries that way. Most sport injuries were from twisting our feet and slamming our lower legs into the ground resulting in nerve damage over the years to our legs and hip, lower back. But you can only be young for so long in your life. I like the way your group practice safety.
In my opinion, I feel that Shad suffers from a lot of confirmation bias. He seems, to me, to go into various topics with a pre-determined opinion/position and then looks only at evidence that supports his opinion/position and either ignores or simply downplays any evidence to the contrary.
@@Riceball01 Well, due to the sheer volume of comments Shad gets he rarely replies. Skallagrim on the other hand, his replies tend to come off condescend and in one thread there was four other people snapping back at him due to the way he .. brush off .. one commenter's listing examples on basic sport athletic safety and how things can just go wrong while sparing. When you dealing with mix Judo & Gerco Roman wrestling, grapples and roll overs resulting from both men slipping with head bashing giving both people concussion and pulled shoulder muscles is part of course. All that started it was little sister tossing a football between the two boys. At 17years old we should know better, but at that age male siblings have a chip on their shoulder jocking who's better. And they Clash. There are more than a few reasons why school sports wear padded head gear. Skallagrim in one post example listed a bunch of sword parries, another commenter counter with blades parry go with should slam at close range, if range is closer, go with head butt to the face. If both opponents are wearing full face helmets, face head bash. Skallagrim, " I'm talking about sword combat." Other guy, " I am talking combat, if both hands are busy, use your head and head bash." Skallagrim, " That is a good way to injure your neck." Other guy, " Step up and play line guard football. Shield wall, hold the line. One shoulder slam and you go down for the next guy to spear." Another commenter on the same thread, " Forget that Hollywood one handed sword use, Long Swords are meant for Half-Swording." Hope you have a lovely week.
@@Riceball01 That's basically how he approaches life it seems like. He's got a lot of.... opinions. About a lot of things. And has done very little meaningful research into them and a lot of digging for data points that support his own biases. It sucks, cause in the early days he was pretty cool and evenhanded, but as the years went on he went deeper and deeper into various political reactionary rabbit holes. His combat and historical content went the same direction. I don't watch him anymore.
an issue thats hard to fix with some of shad's videos, or whoever else makes similar content. No one realistically train a lot with those odd weapons, so theres probably a lot of technique, and ways to use things, that they would of missed. They basically studied some hema(and I dont know what else) and base their knowledge around how fast they manage to find out how to use a double ended sword, batleth, etc. the more you study how to fight with a weird weapon the more you would probably learn, but at the same time, it's probably not worth spending your life dedicated to figuring out how to use specific fantasy weapons, and coming up with all the technique from scratch, when theres a lot of other stuff to do/train.
I think there is a lot you can gain from training with fantasy/SciFi weapons, about general mechanics that can be also transferred to other objects. Yet, you are right I also do not plan to spend a lifetime focussing on such weapons.
@@kitsune-klan I agree theres definitely some stuff to gain from trying different weapons, and fun. Theres going to be lots of ways to use things you probably wont be familar with though, since most common weapons, have generations of people learning and refining techniques, writing stuff down, passing on stuff, etc. i recommend checking out bagua weapons if you want to see exotic stuff. deer horns and rooster claws seem pretty awesome. there is a less common dao bigger than claymores and zweihanders(which hema people often think is the biggest functional swords used),. which i've never seen anyone practice other than my instructor who demoed some ways to use it, but never got to teaching anyone.(hint its ideal to half sword with a weapon that size since it's single edged and thick enough that you can just grab the blunt side like a staff, and turn it for hand protection though it's not something i've seen outside that style) i've heard dong hai chuan had a mercury belt, which was pretty lethal, though not recommended since they didnt know mercury was poison, since its basically a whip staff. kung fu in general got a lot of interesting exotic weapons, and technique that I havent seen in Hema or kenjutsu, but not practiced enough these days, but if you can find legit sources, its worth studying(unfortunately hard to find)
It's been my canon that the bat'leth started as a weapon for judicial duels. Kahless brought new laws and stability to Moloch's kingdom. The bat'leth became a battlefield weapon later as combat became ritualized.
Very interesting! I have never studied HEMA but i have studied Okinawan kobudo so naturally i thought the bat'leth would be used like a a four foot *jo* staff, striking with the ends, prongs forward. Your way looks a lot more practical. If made entirely of steel though, a bat'leth would be heavy and slow. Could they be made of wood with steel edges?
You are right my steel one is very heavy, here we used props out of lighter materials (polystyrol, wood, etc). So in-universe it is made of baakonite which seems to be lighter than steel, in the show many were made from aluminium. I was thinking of achieving a lore-like weight by skeletonising a steel one, but that is something for the future.
There are ways of making one lighter. The most basic way is what's called distal taper. This is where the thickness of the blade is gradually reduced from base to tip,. This helps to reduce the actual weight as well as the perceived weight of the sword along with adjusting its point of balance. By adding distal taper to a bat'leth, you'd not only knock off some wight from it, You'd also make it feel less heavy and better balanced.
If your theory is correct (and I find it has much merit) then an improved Bat'leth would have only one or two holes for the handhold(s), and it would have grips in the center on both sides. The one hole variant would have greater versatility, as it would allow the greatest sliding of the hands on the grip, as is done with polearms and spears. However, a support in the center would still allow for changing of the grip, but would have much greater structural stability.
@@kitsune-klan Other ideas: What if one made a Bat'leth with rotational symmetry instead of mirror symmetry? Also, what if one made a Bat'leth that was longer, thinner, and more spear like with spear blades, and bear-spear "wings?"
how dangerous would you say it is to hold this weapon with the points facing towards you? wouldn't you run the risk of stabbing yourself in the arm or gut whenever you swing it?
Due to the cuvature it is in fact less problematic as it is for example with the hook swords where the bottom blade is straight and pointing to you. Due to the thumb hold the points are in fact, most of the time, facing sideways. Still there is clearly a reason why not so many weapon have a second blade at the bottom
Shad seems to call a lot of things bad weapons when he just ignores their cultural and historic context, and what advantages they confer. He also just compares them to weapons he is more comfortable with, and deems them bad because they aren't like the thing he likes. It is like saying a long sword is an awful weapon because it is not a Glock.
Although I disagree here with him, I really think he does a great job in bringing not so well known aspects of pop-culture into larger attention and does things we all would like to try.
I agree. As much as I enjoy Shad's content, I feel that he tends to into every analysis with a good bit of confirmation bias and looks specifically for things that support his opinion while ignoring r downplaying everything that doesn't. I also feel that his knowledge basis is largely limited to just HEMA and he also kind of overplays his skills and knowledge. He seems mostly self-taught, and I don't know if he's studied HEMA for that long and has had any formal training in HEMA. Not that formal training is absolutely necessary, but I do tend to listen to people who have had and continue to have formal martial arts training along with training in multiple styles/weapons.
Shadiverstiy repeatedly states that he’s only discussing the weapon as a weapon, nothing else. This is like saying “no no this ornamental weapon isn’t a bad weapon!!11 it’s made for ornamental reasons!!11!1” like no shit. It’s still a bad weapon.
@@Riceball01 he is not self taught and shadiverstiy clarifies, not that he needs to, that he analyses these things as weapons. Nothing more. You can make excuses for why something is a bad weapon, it’s still a bad weapon.
The fundamental issue Shad had is he doesn't think of it or treat as what it was a naval and close quarters weapon he's measuring it as a open field weapon of war and it's a fish riding a bike issue
@@kitsune-klan and the flippers can't reach the pedals but just to clarify as I know sometimes these expressions aren't universal there is a saying if you judge a fish by it's ability to ride a bike it will go it's whole like thinking it's stupid basically if you judge something for something it's not meant to be or do of course it's going to look terrible
Extremely heavy short range object. Try Using it against someone that moves naturally and not as they are told. Just because it theoretically could do as a sword doesnt mean that it actually can.
Yes because pressure testing when trying to do a demonstration and examples is a great fucking idea even Shad doesn't do pressure testing while doing demonstrations
Okay and where in any of Star Trek lore is the bat'leth encountering a sword like the ones used in medieval fighting? Oh what's that? Nowhere, because the Klingons are pretty much the only ones still practicing the old ways and the rest are dependent on their technology. Yes, it can actually do what a sword does and better because of the lore and because of the enemies encountered. The only time a Klingon really meets an enemy carrying a melee weapon is in an honour duel with another Klingon who is also armed with a bat'leth. Also extremely heavy to a human maybe but canonically Klingons are much stronger than humans. Klingons also don't only carry bat'leths, they also use disruptor technology because they are technologically advanced warriors, not fools. Their disruptor rifles even have the equivalent of fixed bayonets in some cases.
@@nightshade7240 In some of the older episodes Worf was using more sword-like weapons. So it may have indeed been historically the case that Klingons with (kind of) swords would fight against Klingons with Bat'leths. Also that is of course the simplest one do go against for training issue. Yet, you are right we can not expect somebody with a sword onboard the Enterprise, oh wait....
Making the outer edge the primary edge ... sharpened of course ... changes how this weapon works. If you think of it and try to use it as a sword, you will fail. It's also not an axe or any other weapon where you try and extend it for added reach. I think the problem most of the people who dismiss this weapon try to compare it's use directly with weapons they are familiar with. Instead, it looks to be a unique weapon in and of itself and meant to be kept close to the body unless an opening presented itself. Even then, it can be quickly recovered. Because it's close use weapon and has multiple edges and points, blocking and attacking become the same thing. The design allows you to take the full strike on a long sword without compromising your defensive and offensive position. Swing a sword and when it's blocked, you have to either reposition the sword or allow it to arc for another strike. This takes time, even for the best of the best. In the Bat'leth's case, your weapon has hardly moved giving you full control and you waste no time in a counterattack. This was an excellent take on a fantasy weapon that looks to have more uses than being a costume prop for a TV series. Great job!
First : i love your logo and the name of the channel. Second : Thank you for defending the Bat'Leth i still prefer the Mek'leth but the Bat'leth is a weapon that shouldn't be maligned.
The main issue i see with this video, is the same issue i see with a lot of defense trainers. The techniques you show function perfectly, against someone who is standing there and not reacting. Though I can respect you showing off how it could in theory be used, a defender would not just stand there waiting for you to get an opening. It's like training people in self defense, "When you do A, do B, then follow up with C." That in theory works, but A,B, and C were all used against a partner that let you do steps A, B, and C. The BEST way to prove this is to make a training Bat'leth and use it against someone with a training sword and see if you can even execute these moves on an opponent that is doing more than going with the flow. Great video though.
Why would you do it against a training sword when the bat'leth is designed to be used against unarmed opponents (melee because their opponents rely on phasers and disruptors) and other bat'leths? Not taking into account the situations in which bat'leth would be used would make the entire prospect pointless. The Klingons didn't fight against people armed with medieval swords like HEMA. The bat'leth is a dueling weapon and a boarding weapon which is why it is compact, because it's very hard to fight in a corridor with a full length sword.
@@nightshade7240 That's a good point - short effective range and self limiting any wide swings makes a lot of sense for a weapon that's used when your primary is actually a ranged weapon and you expect to use your secondary in narrow corridors. Even the central blade that's on the "reverse" side in this demonstration seems useful in that context for blocking the width of a corridor with a dangerous object. That said, it's still very fanciful and doesn't do anything a long dagger and buckler combo, for example, don't do and probably do with less restrictions.
I think the sword of Kahless is the superior version of the bat'leth simply because it would have all the advantages of the "modern" bat'leth but it would be lighter, faster and more lethal. You are right, all the people who have failed to understand this weapon are wrong and Shad is famously incorrect about just about anything he makes a video on. Reminds me very much of my beloved deerhorn knives because it was derived from both the concept and the movements, though altered slightly as the two weapons become one. I honestly think they could have just used deerhorn knives for the Klingon weapon of choice but I am also aware of the lore around the modern bat'leth in the show. I think so many people fail to realise that the whole weapon except for the hand holds is an edge and that the curvature is designed for sabre like cuts on the primary edges. I think one thing you have all failed to consider is how effective push cuts would be with such a massive weapon. The best example of someone using a bat'leth I've seen and your sparring partner is awesome, showing how someone with less experience can still pull off these moves, albeit a little slower and a little less precise, but no less lethal.
A lot to reply to, but cool. So the Kahless Bat'leth is clearly different will deal with that next year. Also a longer one on the Bat'leth in general is in preparation. You are right I was not thinking of the push cuts, will try to incorporate it. The dearhorn knife video is ready and will still be out this year.
Well, only if you think of the rest as hand protection. There are many swords with simple or almost no protection (check some videos by scholagladiatoria). In my view (as pointed out) the smaller spikes are functional prongs and the area between them stabilised them, and gives some additional attack options, but are not primarily for protection.
I also just tried it. If the handles are on the other side the balancing is of again. I think i will include this aspect in the longer video I am preparing, so thanks for this point.
@kitsune-klan obviously, the Bardiche had pole arm options, but the handle along the length of the axe allows it to be used in close quarters as a Batleth. It's not a proper pole arm because it is too short. I think it was used more like a Batleth than a halberd
@@kitsune-klan Agreed... BUT... (and I wish I could share a link) if you look at some of the LONGER bladed examples, and ignore the haft, couldn't you use it the same? The other difference is a bardiche is a mass weapon and it was used against heavily armored opponents during the era of the musket by musketeers as a rest and as a last defense. Once the enemy is on the musketeer, they can use the mass of the weapon to unblanace armored soldiers. Think of a batleth with mass or using the bardich like a shield bash to push soldiers away and then use it as an axe for a followup. Also, any bardiche with a pick on the back is apocryphal, they had no such thing. I think the full length of the haft was the musketeers office. I am sure they used all of it.
No, don't apologize for using your commonsense. Shad has a bad habit of if he personally can't do something, then it is impossible. Scolarglaotor (or whatever) doesn't practice with the weapons he critiques. Skullagrim is a buffoon. What you displayed makes more sense than all three of them combined. Don't apologize.
Not a fan of the title. Just seems like you're trying to capture Shad fans. I mean that constructively. Liked the video and your perspective though. 👍You can easily make it on your own merits without clickbaiting. Cheers dudes.
I thought it could be appropriate as we made the video as a reaction to Shad's video published last week. Yet, I respect your criticism. Also thanks for the supportive words.
@@kitsune-klan in balance, I found the title quite appropriate and to the point as it takes Shad's arguments on the specific topic and refutes them with valid arguments of your own.
Me at the start of this video: "What? They all got it wrong? Were they holding it backwards or something?" 🙄😏 Me at the end: "Damn, they were all holding it backwards...."
i do agree with your technique but it does leave your hand very exposed, sellsword arts did a decent job of using a batleth but i think the most effective technique would be a combination of your own style and the techniques that sellsword came up with when trying them
Sellswordarts also come from a German Longsword background. However they did not use the thumbhold/thumbgrip to much, therefore some of their stuff still looked like forcing the thing in a way it does not want to. Yet, that difference might be also due to them using the purple heart armory version which has a bit of a different shape.
you found a way to make it usable but it basically requires it to be a two handed weapon with the reach of half a knife its more useable then others said, but not by much
Have to admit you are right. My aim was to squeeze most out of it that was possible. I really think the throwing aspect could be an original intent and that the use as a combat weapon was at first an improvised one.
still, in half of the clips, one of your leg's arteria is cut, a knee broken... you need a second step to actually kill, in wich your opponent can easily evade... even the disarmaments are easy to evade with a straight sword : step back or/and change your grip... You're lacking of reach, and don't fully use the lever power of a strike, and worst, expect the opponent to commit in, instead of reflex-retreat. oh, and the twirling, no... my strike and my trust are faster than your twirl. So much...and my reach farthest, and your hands always exposed. Plus, in formation, you are dangerous for the others. Zweihanders and flamberges wre invented for in-formation combat, Landsknitters were used against and in the tercio, no need to talk about the spatha or katana. Nope, don't want this thing in an army. Give me a halberd or a war fail instead. even as a throwing weapon ! Ngombe-za is funnier, lighter, pointyer.. Nope, bath'let, waste of steel. To melt in spearheads.
The army point is a good one, using a Bat'leth in formation will be difficult. Yet, no steel, but baakonite, no idea whether this is rare or expensive.
For a close quarters/naval combat weapon doesn't mean much in fact it's often a net negative reason why the premier boarding weapons were all relatively short
@@michaelkeha Naval weapons like cutlasses also had dulled tips to prevent accidental self-stabbing during a boarding process, or in the tight quarters of a ship.
This is not about arguing that it is a usefull thing. This is about understanding bio-mechanics, nothing more. Exploring fantasy weapons for bio-mechanics is mostly for entertaining puposes. Yet, it also helps you thinking how to use improvised weapons.
The Ba’atleth is a not a sword it’s a primary arm ment to be used in the confines of a ship against heavily armored opponents to capture or kill them but this is the best video I’ve seen so far about this topic! Also common Shad L
And if you call yourself Kitsune clan, you should know that it pronounced kʲi̥t͡sɨne̞. The u is a mix phoneme between u and i, closer to the i than the u, and the e in the end is a schwa-phoneme, which means it is unpronounced, much like the e in the.
If you don't pronounce the vowel in "the" then you're pronouncing the word wrongly. Schwas are reduced, unstressed vowels, but they're certainly pronounced. (Also before a word that starts with a vowel, "the" has a non-schwa pronunciation.)
Apparently (from what I was told about Star Trek Lore), Kahless "The Unforgettable" designed the Bat'leth with intentional drawbacks to make it difficult and unwieldy. The purpose for this was that, by mastering such a difficult weapon and overcome it's inefficiencies, a Klingon would master himself through technique, discipline, rituals and tradition. Through the Bat'Leth, klingons kept in check their aggression in combat basically. This is how Kahless' Clan dominated, and why it is a widespread weapon on Klingon; not because it's a good weapon, but because if it's history and purpose to Klingons specifically.
When Kingons have easy to use practical weapons, their aggression and bloodlust in combat makes then over reach and leave themselves open during combat... with the Bat'leth, Klingons always have to think about technique, correct form and defense. This would make the warrior more disciplined in combat then a Klingon that used more practical weapons, but would also lose himself to bloodlust and overreach, compromising his defense. The weapon evolved with the species, which is what makes it so iconic.
As with all martial arts there is a lot of lore. We can never be sure what of the stories would have been real (in-universe thinking). So our approach here was just from the (bio-)mechanical side. I agree that approaching it more form the in-universe historical point would be worthwhile. For example, I still have trouble understanding how the Bat'leth evolved from the Kahless version to the now so common three handle version.
@@kitsune-klan well it's likely that the one handle version was having issues with either warping or cracking etc so they put they put the extra bits of metal in to strengthen it where it was likely breaking
It's also worth noting that in the same episode of TNG that showed much of Kahless, it was said that Kahless gave the forms of the Mok'bara, the only canonically listed Klingon martial art - and it's literally just Tai Chi. So again, designed to counteract their natural aggression.
i was sceptical at first, but you have a good point. the focus on typical sword aspects, because it's called "klingon sword", was also my problem with the other videos. in your video you can clearly see more fighting style like halfsword or even more poleaxe-like. thanks for taking the time to make this video.
Thanks a lot!
Brilliant practical experimentation and exposition. As a swordsman, in my view, what you have done with the logical blade movement in line with its balance/heft and the utilization of German and other sword techniques show the Bat'leth to be a viable, and potentially ideal close-quarters weapon for disarms and half-swording/grappling type situations. Good work.
Thanks, we tried our best.
You have done a great honor to your House .
majQa' (I hope this is the correct version of "thanks" in Klingon)
The thing about the Bat'leth, is that it's popularity is based not only on it's supposed in universe effectiveness, but it's ritual and historical quality.
Klingon's who go into ACTUAL battle with the weapon tend to be looking to make a name for themselves, generally they are all armed with disruptors (energy pistols), because why wouldn't they be?
They use it mainly for duels, ceremony, and training, and it all goes back to kahless using it in more ancient times.
If kahless used a pitched fork they would all be using pitchforks.
The pitched fork would have not been useful onboard spaceships. I think there are several factors (for example that the Bat'leth works in short range combat in halfsword), but, yes, history will have been one.
Once I got away from the idea of the bat'leth being a "Klingon sword" and saw it as a martial arts weapon, I discovered that what you say in this video is true--it is NOT wielded like a sword! As Worf says, "make it an extension of your arm, a part of you"; let the shape of the weapon guide you in the way it's used in combat.
Good that you agree, yet this saying is found in a lot of martial arts, with a lot of weapons. Also in other pop-culture, for example in Avatar Sokka's master also says this for the sword...
@@kitsune-klan Because it works, and it makes sense. Make your weapon effectively part of your body when in combat.
I think people should also look at stick weapons like shillelagh. They use the bottom handle to parry and attack with the top.
These sword guys only think of sword movements.
Good point. I still think this is a sword-like object and therefore can best borrow from a sword, but I indeed have something on the Irish stick in preparation....
@kitsune-klan the short stick is still very sword like. Sword guys become distance and point focused because of the effectiveness of thrusts. Stick guys use thrusts, but don't become so fixed.
The sword has a cross guard, so they rely on specific protection for parries. Stick guys know your hand is still in danger.
Defense against thrusts with a sword is very different from stick defense, especially short stick like whip stick or shillelagh vs Bo or other longer sticks. If you watch the other videos, they all had lots of trouble vs direct thrusts. I don't recall anyone having any kind of actual answer.
@@EvilWeiRamirez To be honest I also come from the stick side, Hanbo-Jitsu and FMA
Watch Fandabi Dozi. He's a Scots Irish reenactor and has a series on historical stick fighting.
@MichaelRainey cool. I will always subscribe to another stick fighter
You did very well showing all the different techniques. The disarming looks amazing. Good job.
Thanks, always happy to see people that like disarms.
You make some very good points. I haven't seen the bat'leth used like that before, but it seems a lot more natural and flowing than the usual manner.
My personal hypothesis is that the bat'leth was inspired largely by a rare Chinese weapon called (in English) "cicada wings blade" or sometimes "heaven and earth blade" or "sun and moon crescent blade". Essentially a jo-length pole with a curved blade on both ends, with crescent-moon hand guards on the handle between each blade. I think looking at the movements and applications of that weapon will inspire use of the bat'leth in a different way to historical European perspectives.
Thanks a lot!
Huh. Very interesting theory. I don't know that I've ever seen an edge on that side of the weapon but it would certainly make sense out of some of the maneuvers used on screen. I've always thought that the frontal hooks would be useful for catching shields or other weapons, creating an opening for a thrust with the points. But I gotta say I'm impressed with your demo clips. Really wish I had a sparring blade to test with.
Thanks for the supportive words!
Excellent! This shows that even the big names don't know or see everything.
Thanks for your kind words!
Nice video. And you have amazing points. Shad keeps trying to make the batleth something it's not. I agree with you here, and many of your demonstrations show a lot of the potential the weapon has. The outer prongs having a sharpened outer edge eliminates a lot of issues and open it up for more functionality.
Thanks for the support!
Tag Shadiversity and or contact him on this topic. It should be fun.
The skill level is a huge point with the Bathleb. You need Training with it to use its potential similar to Chinese Tigerhooks. They are akward at first but when u understand their use they are freaking deadly and versitile.
I commented on his video, mentioning our reply, but I found no further contact info. I would be really interested in his opinion.
@@kitsune-klandon't worry, he might make a 38 minutes long response to your 7 minutes video.
@@ROMANTIKILLER2 Waiting for it...
Being wrong is Shad's ground state of being.
No better way to invite commentary than to be loudly and enthusiastically wrong!
I was a teenager back when TNG came out, lucky us for my peer group our parents were self-employed carpenters' construction workers. So, we had more than a few plywood cut Bat'leth growing up.
As for Ds9, they mention Kalas used his bat'leth to plow his father's fields, and reap the grains for beer & bread. Carve a wooden statue of his wife. Well, other than the statue wood carving, we had multiple bat'leth from single sheet cut stock steel along with hammering drawing leaf spring steel into this large multiple edge pointed weapon. And we did vegetable gardening work with them, cause why not. Along with cutting weeds.
Shad likes to talk and run his mouth at times, it brings a smile to my face when he trashes talks weapons/tools I grew up with.
My family had multiple acres of woodland and long tree lines, translates to a lot of yard work cutting back the hedge line each month.
So I had .. years .. of learning how to cut with bat'leth swings, along with a length of rebar steel with a 3in edge grind onto on end. Slow practice draws the steel rod from the cardboard duct tape sheaf and tip cut the tree branch and resheaf the blade. Rapier or katana quick draw cut becomes a joke after a few years.
As for full contact sport with proper body armor, Shad said many times he take a baseball bat over nunchucks let alone a bat'leth. On the other hand I know how to use nunchucks to full effect because they go over shields and hit targets in the back of their necks. Proper weight nunchucks hit with a few hundred pounds of force that you don't have to put your whole body behind.
Baseball bat vs bat'leth, .. please the bat'leth is built to block a swing from just about anything unlike a baseball bat. Also just playing with plywood cut out, I seen too many hook-on wrist disarms and partial joint wrist dislocations to think bat'leths are useless.
Now as for the .. sling, ... yeah I can sling chunks of dirt at Shad with a stick all day long. 6lbs of earth coming at you at 30mph is no joke. And that is low speed launching at target.
Finally someone having also experienced the fun of disarms; thanks for your thoughts.
@@kitsune-klan As teenager we had anger issues, dislocate your brother wrist, he get pizzed drops his weapon and just tackles and beats the F-ck out of you. Full plat armor class 20 or zer0 for old school means nothing compared to your touch armor defense and tackle take downs.
Now as an adult in my twenties doing foam weapon larp or plastic baseball fights, even if you think you have proper footwear, we slip and tripped on all types of ground. Damp morning dew grass, dry grass cover by wind blow dust, dirt, and just have to love pollen. Lightly rain wet grass ... We avoid mud, mud is just bad all around. Slipping & sliding in mud seem fun at first but over the years of trying to slow or brace your fall, you just learn to pull your arms to your chest and turn to land on your back, less chance of hand & arm injuries that way.
Most sport injuries were from twisting our feet and slamming our lower legs into the ground resulting in nerve damage over the years to our legs and hip, lower back. But you can only be young for so long in your life. I like the way your group practice safety.
In my opinion, I feel that Shad suffers from a lot of confirmation bias. He seems, to me, to go into various topics with a pre-determined opinion/position and then looks only at evidence that supports his opinion/position and either ignores or simply downplays any evidence to the contrary.
@@Riceball01 Well, due to the sheer volume of comments Shad gets he rarely replies.
Skallagrim on the other hand, his replies tend to come off condescend and in one thread there was four other people snapping back at him due to the way he .. brush off .. one commenter's listing examples on basic sport athletic safety and how things can just go wrong while sparing.
When you dealing with mix Judo & Gerco Roman wrestling, grapples and roll overs resulting from both men slipping with head bashing giving both people concussion and pulled shoulder muscles is part of course. All that started it was little sister tossing a football between the two boys. At 17years old we should know better, but at that age male siblings have a chip on their shoulder jocking who's better. And they Clash.
There are more than a few reasons why school sports wear padded head gear.
Skallagrim in one post example listed a bunch of sword parries, another commenter counter with blades parry go with should slam at close range, if range is closer, go with head butt to the face. If both opponents are wearing full face helmets, face head bash.
Skallagrim, " I'm talking about sword combat."
Other guy, " I am talking combat, if both hands are busy, use your head and head bash."
Skallagrim, " That is a good way to injure your neck."
Other guy, " Step up and play line guard football. Shield wall, hold the line. One shoulder slam and you go down for the next guy to spear."
Another commenter on the same thread, " Forget that Hollywood one handed sword use, Long Swords are meant for Half-Swording."
Hope you have a lovely week.
@@Riceball01 That's basically how he approaches life it seems like. He's got a lot of.... opinions. About a lot of things. And has done very little meaningful research into them and a lot of digging for data points that support his own biases. It sucks, cause in the early days he was pretty cool and evenhanded, but as the years went on he went deeper and deeper into various political reactionary rabbit holes. His combat and historical content went the same direction. I don't watch him anymore.
an issue thats hard to fix with some of shad's videos, or whoever else makes similar content. No one realistically train a lot with those odd weapons, so theres probably a lot of technique, and ways to use things, that they would of missed. They basically studied some hema(and I dont know what else) and base their knowledge around how fast they manage to find out how to use a double ended sword, batleth, etc.
the more you study how to fight with a weird weapon the more you would probably learn, but at the same time, it's probably not worth spending your life dedicated to figuring out how to use specific fantasy weapons, and coming up with all the technique from scratch, when theres a lot of other stuff to do/train.
I think there is a lot you can gain from training with fantasy/SciFi weapons, about general mechanics that can be also transferred to other objects. Yet, you are right I also do not plan to spend a lifetime focussing on such weapons.
@@kitsune-klan I agree theres definitely some stuff to gain from trying different weapons, and fun. Theres going to be lots of ways to use things you probably wont be familar with though, since most common weapons, have generations of people learning and refining techniques, writing stuff down, passing on stuff, etc.
i recommend checking out bagua weapons if you want to see exotic stuff. deer horns and rooster claws seem pretty awesome. there is a less common dao bigger than claymores and zweihanders(which hema people often think is the biggest functional swords used),. which i've never seen anyone practice other than my instructor who demoed some ways to use it, but never got to teaching anyone.(hint its ideal to half sword with a weapon that size since it's single edged and thick enough that you can just grab the blunt side like a staff, and turn it for hand protection though it's not something i've seen outside that style)
i've heard dong hai chuan had a mercury belt, which was pretty lethal, though not recommended since they didnt know mercury was poison, since its basically a whip staff.
kung fu in general got a lot of interesting exotic weapons, and technique that I havent seen in Hema or kenjutsu, but not practiced enough these days, but if you can find legit sources, its worth studying(unfortunately hard to find)
@@homurayurisquad1423 Some of these have videos in preparation from us. The deerhorn knives (at least a first try) will still be published still year.
It's been my canon that the bat'leth started as a weapon for judicial duels. Kahless brought new laws and stability to Moloch's kingdom. The bat'leth became a battlefield weapon later as combat became ritualized.
As with real world weapons there is often a lot of legends forming. I guess the only one who can really tell us is Dan Curry....
Very interesting! I have never studied HEMA but i have studied Okinawan kobudo so naturally i thought the bat'leth would be used like a a four foot *jo* staff, striking with the ends, prongs forward. Your way looks a lot more practical. If made entirely of steel though, a bat'leth would be heavy and slow. Could they be made of wood with steel edges?
You are right my steel one is very heavy, here we used props out of lighter materials (polystyrol, wood, etc). So in-universe it is made of baakonite which seems to be lighter than steel, in the show many were made from aluminium. I was thinking of achieving a lore-like weight by skeletonising a steel one, but that is something for the future.
There are ways of making one lighter. The most basic way is what's called distal taper. This is where the thickness of the blade is gradually reduced from base to tip,. This helps to reduce the actual weight as well as the perceived weight of the sword along with adjusting its point of balance. By adding distal taper to a bat'leth, you'd not only knock off some wight from it, You'd also make it feel less heavy and better balanced.
If your theory is correct (and I find it has much merit) then an improved Bat'leth would have only one or two holes for the handhold(s), and it would have grips in the center on both sides. The one hole variant would have greater versatility, as it would allow the greatest sliding of the hands on the grip, as is done with polearms and spears. However, a support in the center would still allow for changing of the grip, but would have much greater structural stability.
Is on my list to be built, maybe over X-mas....
@@kitsune-klan Other ideas: What if one made a Bat'leth with rotational symmetry instead of mirror symmetry? Also, what if one made a Bat'leth that was longer, thinner, and more spear like with spear blades, and bear-spear "wings?"
@@stcredzero So rotational symmetry, hm...
would that not look a bit like the Thanos double sword in curved?
how dangerous would you say it is to hold this weapon with the points facing towards you? wouldn't you run the risk of stabbing yourself in the arm or gut whenever you swing it?
Due to the cuvature it is in fact less problematic as it is for example with the hook swords where the bottom blade is straight and pointing to you. Due to the thumb hold the points are in fact, most of the time, facing sideways. Still there is clearly a reason why not so many weapon have a second blade at the bottom
@kitsune-klan yes, when a weapon is two-sided, it's usually a polearm afaik. Thank you for the insight
Shad seems to call a lot of things bad weapons when he just ignores their cultural and historic context, and what advantages they confer. He also just compares them to weapons he is more comfortable with, and deems them bad because they aren't like the thing he likes.
It is like saying a long sword is an awful weapon because it is not a Glock.
Although I disagree here with him, I really think he does a great job in bringing not so well known aspects of pop-culture into larger attention and does things we all would like to try.
I agree. As much as I enjoy Shad's content, I feel that he tends to into every analysis with a good bit of confirmation bias and looks specifically for things that support his opinion while ignoring r downplaying everything that doesn't. I also feel that his knowledge basis is largely limited to just HEMA and he also kind of overplays his skills and knowledge. He seems mostly self-taught, and I don't know if he's studied HEMA for that long and has had any formal training in HEMA. Not that formal training is absolutely necessary, but I do tend to listen to people who have had and continue to have formal martial arts training along with training in multiple styles/weapons.
Shadiverstiy repeatedly states that he’s only discussing the weapon as a weapon, nothing else. This is like saying “no no this ornamental weapon isn’t a bad weapon!!11 it’s made for ornamental reasons!!11!1” like no shit. It’s still a bad weapon.
@@Riceball01 he is not self taught and shadiverstiy clarifies, not that he needs to, that he analyses these things as weapons. Nothing more. You can make excuses for why something is a bad weapon, it’s still a bad weapon.
Does it even canonically have an edge on the back side?
Hard to tell as the depictions differ, yet I believe the answer is yes.
It's hard to tell on screen but many look like they at least have a false bevel with sharpened points.
how many edges does the Bat'leth actually has its neither a single edged nor a double edged implement?
Depends on the depiction, I would argue five.
The fundamental issue Shad had is he doesn't think of it or treat as what it was a naval and close quarters weapon he's measuring it as a open field weapon of war and it's a fish riding a bike issue
You mean no thumb for ringing the bell?
@@kitsune-klan and the flippers can't reach the pedals but just to clarify as I know sometimes these expressions aren't universal there is a saying if you judge a fish by it's ability to ride a bike it will go it's whole like thinking it's stupid basically if you judge something for something it's not meant to be or do of course it's going to look terrible
Explicitly mentioned.
@@dwwolf4636 gonna have to be more specific there bud
@@michaelkehathe Bat'leth being for boarding actions etc.
Hi, Skallagrim has some great videos on bat'teth.Cutting with metal one, sparing with nylon version...
Seen it, just linked one of them.
Sweet video! this was pretty enlightening!
Thanks for your kind words!
Extremely heavy short range object. Try Using it against someone that moves naturally and not as they are told. Just because it theoretically could do as a sword doesnt mean that it actually can.
Yes because pressure testing when trying to do a demonstration and examples is a great fucking idea even Shad doesn't do pressure testing while doing demonstrations
You are absolutely right with the range. It shines, no that is not right, it does work OK in close-quarters. Against a polearm it is quite horrible.
Okay and where in any of Star Trek lore is the bat'leth encountering a sword like the ones used in medieval fighting? Oh what's that? Nowhere, because the Klingons are pretty much the only ones still practicing the old ways and the rest are dependent on their technology. Yes, it can actually do what a sword does and better because of the lore and because of the enemies encountered. The only time a Klingon really meets an enemy carrying a melee weapon is in an honour duel with another Klingon who is also armed with a bat'leth. Also extremely heavy to a human maybe but canonically Klingons are much stronger than humans. Klingons also don't only carry bat'leths, they also use disruptor technology because they are technologically advanced warriors, not fools. Their disruptor rifles even have the equivalent of fixed bayonets in some cases.
@@nightshade7240 In some of the older episodes Worf was using more sword-like weapons. So it may have indeed been historically the case that Klingons with (kind of) swords would fight against Klingons with Bat'leths. Also that is of course the simplest one do go against for training issue. Yet, you are right we can not expect somebody with a sword onboard the Enterprise, oh wait....
You're assuming a fantasy weapon from 400 years in the future is actually made of carbon steel.
Weird weapon, my opinion. I'm a swordsman. Thank you for video.
Weird indeed, thx!
Making the outer edge the primary edge ... sharpened of course ... changes how this weapon works. If you think of it and try to use it as a sword, you will fail. It's also not an axe or any other weapon where you try and extend it for added reach. I think the problem most of the people who dismiss this weapon try to compare it's use directly with weapons they are familiar with. Instead, it looks to be a unique weapon in and of itself and meant to be kept close to the body unless an opening presented itself. Even then, it can be quickly recovered.
Because it's close use weapon and has multiple edges and points, blocking and attacking become the same thing. The design allows you to take the full strike on a long sword without compromising your defensive and offensive position. Swing a sword and when it's blocked, you have to either reposition the sword or allow it to arc for another strike. This takes time, even for the best of the best. In the Bat'leth's case, your weapon has hardly moved giving you full control and you waste no time in a counterattack. This was an excellent take on a fantasy weapon that looks to have more uses than being a costume prop for a TV series. Great job!
Wow, thanks for sharing the detailed thoughts and the compliments!
First : i love your logo and the name of the channel.
Second : Thank you for defending the Bat'Leth i still prefer the Mek'leth but the Bat'leth is a weapon that shouldn't be maligned.
Welcome to another fox! Thanks, we will deal with the Mel'leth next year, promised!
The main issue i see with this video, is the same issue i see with a lot of defense trainers. The techniques you show function perfectly, against someone who is standing there and not reacting. Though I can respect you showing off how it could in theory be used, a defender would not just stand there waiting for you to get an opening. It's like training people in self defense, "When you do A, do B, then follow up with C." That in theory works, but A,B, and C were all used against a partner that let you do steps A, B, and C. The BEST way to prove this is to make a training Bat'leth and use it against someone with a training sword and see if you can even execute these moves on an opponent that is doing more than going with the flow. Great video though.
As pointed out we have longer one in prep also showing more free play. Also I would especially love to see OTHERS testing it.
Why would you do it against a training sword when the bat'leth is designed to be used against unarmed opponents (melee because their opponents rely on phasers and disruptors) and other bat'leths? Not taking into account the situations in which bat'leth would be used would make the entire prospect pointless. The Klingons didn't fight against people armed with medieval swords like HEMA. The bat'leth is a dueling weapon and a boarding weapon which is why it is compact, because it's very hard to fight in a corridor with a full length sword.
@@nightshade7240 That's a good point - short effective range and self limiting any wide swings makes a lot of sense for a weapon that's used when your primary is actually a ranged weapon and you expect to use your secondary in narrow corridors. Even the central blade that's on the "reverse" side in this demonstration seems useful in that context for blocking the width of a corridor with a dangerous object.
That said, it's still very fanciful and doesn't do anything a long dagger and buckler combo, for example, don't do and probably do with less restrictions.
If I ever get one of the purpleheart trainers I'll have to try this out. Nice work!
Thanks a lot! A was also thinking of buying from them, but shipping to Europe is quite expensive.
I think the sword of Kahless is the superior version of the bat'leth simply because it would have all the advantages of the "modern" bat'leth but it would be lighter, faster and more lethal. You are right, all the people who have failed to understand this weapon are wrong and Shad is famously incorrect about just about anything he makes a video on. Reminds me very much of my beloved deerhorn knives because it was derived from both the concept and the movements, though altered slightly as the two weapons become one. I honestly think they could have just used deerhorn knives for the Klingon weapon of choice but I am also aware of the lore around the modern bat'leth in the show. I think so many people fail to realise that the whole weapon except for the hand holds is an edge and that the curvature is designed for sabre like cuts on the primary edges. I think one thing you have all failed to consider is how effective push cuts would be with such a massive weapon.
The best example of someone using a bat'leth I've seen and your sparring partner is awesome, showing how someone with less experience can still pull off these moves, albeit a little slower and a little less precise, but no less lethal.
A lot to reply to, but cool. So the Kahless Bat'leth is clearly different will deal with that next year. Also a longer one on the Bat'leth in general is in preparation. You are right I was not thinking of the push cuts, will try to incorporate it. The dearhorn knife video is ready and will still be out this year.
Really good input and very respectful, don't think any of those great youtubers you mentioned will be mad.
Personally I will still not get a Bat'leth.
Thanks fo rthe supportive words, and I can get the last point. Storing these monsters is a challenge.
This is an excellent response video. It's well thought-out and very respectful. Even if it turns out to be hogwash, what more could you want?
Thanks for your kind words!
Pretty cool video, but the hand swapping seems pretty silly to me, it takes way too long and for a moment you are not holding the weapon properly
Feels strange indeed, yet other weapons do the same, for example a Nodachi.
OBJECTION: If what you say is true, the handles are on the wrong side.
Well, only if you think of the rest as hand protection. There are many swords with simple or almost no protection (check some videos by scholagladiatoria). In my view (as pointed out) the smaller spikes are functional prongs and the area between them stabilised them, and gives some additional attack options, but are not primarily for protection.
I also just tried it. If the handles are on the other side the balancing is of again. I think i will include this aspect in the longer video I am preparing, so thanks for this point.
Striking with the backside of it seems weird to me.
Well, my argument is that it is not the back side.
Good points
I always felt that the Batleth and the Bardiche were kindred weapons.
Well, due to the symmetry of the Bat'leth the weight distribution is a bit different.
@kitsune-klan obviously, the Bardiche had pole arm options, but the handle along the length of the axe allows it to be used in close quarters as a Batleth.
It's not a proper pole arm because it is too short. I think it was used more like a Batleth than a halberd
@@coreyfro I also think that it is closer to it, I was mostly referring to the symmetry that allows the Bat'leth to swap around.
@@kitsune-klan Agreed... BUT... (and I wish I could share a link) if you look at some of the LONGER bladed examples, and ignore the haft, couldn't you use it the same?
The other difference is a bardiche is a mass weapon and it was used against heavily armored opponents during the era of the musket by musketeers as a rest and as a last defense.
Once the enemy is on the musketeer, they can use the mass of the weapon to unblanace armored soldiers. Think of a batleth with mass or using the bardich like a shield bash to push soldiers away and then use it as an axe for a followup.
Also, any bardiche with a pick on the back is apocryphal, they had no such thing.
I think the full length of the haft was the musketeers office. I am sure they used all of it.
@@coreyfro Concerning the haft, there is a variant of the Bat'leth with a longer middle handle, that might be even more like the bardiche.
Ok, I'm a believer!
Thanks!
No, don't apologize for using your commonsense.
Shad has a bad habit of if he personally can't do something, then it is impossible. Scolarglaotor (or whatever) doesn't practice with the weapons he critiques.
Skullagrim is a buffoon.
What you displayed makes more sense than all three of them combined. Don't apologize.
Not a fan of the title. Just seems like you're trying to capture Shad fans. I mean that constructively. Liked the video and your perspective though. 👍You can easily make it on your own merits without clickbaiting. Cheers dudes.
I thought it could be appropriate as we made the video as a reaction to Shad's video published last week. Yet, I respect your criticism. Also thanks for the supportive words.
@@kitsune-klan in balance, I found the title quite appropriate and to the point as it takes Shad's arguments on the specific topic and refutes them with valid arguments of your own.
Me at the start of this video: "What? They all got it wrong? Were they holding it backwards or something?" 🙄😏
Me at the end: "Damn, they were all holding it backwards...."
Thanks a lot!
i do agree with your technique but it does leave your hand very exposed, sellsword arts did a decent job of using a batleth but i think the most effective technique would be a combination of your own style and the techniques that sellsword came up with when trying them
Sellswordarts also come from a German Longsword background. However they did not use the thumbhold/thumbgrip to much, therefore some of their stuff still looked like forcing the thing in a way it does not want to. Yet, that difference might be also due to them using the purple heart armory version which has a bit of a different shape.
you found a way to make it usable
but it basically requires it to be a two handed weapon with the reach of half a knife
its more useable then others said, but not by much
Have to admit you are right. My aim was to squeeze most out of it that was possible. I really think the throwing aspect could be an original intent and that the use as a combat weapon was at first an improvised one.
still, in half of the clips, one of your leg's arteria is cut, a knee broken... you need a second step to actually kill, in wich your opponent can easily evade... even the disarmaments are easy to evade with a straight sword : step back or/and change your grip...
You're lacking of reach, and don't fully use the lever power of a strike, and worst, expect the opponent to commit in, instead of reflex-retreat. oh, and the twirling, no... my strike and my trust are faster than your twirl. So much...and my reach farthest, and your hands always exposed.
Plus, in formation, you are dangerous for the others. Zweihanders and flamberges wre invented for in-formation combat, Landsknitters were used against and in the tercio, no need to talk about the spatha or katana.
Nope, don't want this thing in an army. Give me a halberd or a war fail instead.
even as a throwing weapon ! Ngombe-za is funnier, lighter, pointyer.. Nope, bath'let, waste of steel. To melt in spearheads.
The army point is a good one, using a Bat'leth in formation will be difficult. Yet, no steel, but baakonite, no idea whether this is rare or expensive.
No human is strong enough to wield a real Klingon sword. Therefore your all wrong.
So in DS9 not only humans wield them but even a Ferengi.
Nice! I hope they see and respond to this, just to see the back-and-fourth discussion.
Hope so too!
Why not sharpen the other side and use it reverse?
it's a completely made up fantasy weapon
My fantasy is for weapons to be both functional and impressive
Stupid weapon. Post ex rationalizations won't change that. All that blade and weight for almost no range.
For a close quarters/naval combat weapon doesn't mean much in fact it's often a net negative reason why the premier boarding weapons were all relatively short
@@michaelkeha Naval weapons like cutlasses also had dulled tips to prevent accidental self-stabbing during a boarding process, or in the tight quarters of a ship.
@@occultnightingale1106 honestly I'd be impressed if you could self stab yourself with a Bat'leth given it's designs
This is not about arguing that it is a usefull thing. This is about understanding bio-mechanics, nothing more. Exploring fantasy weapons for bio-mechanics is mostly for entertaining puposes. Yet, it also helps you thinking how to use improvised weapons.
It's based on a real weapon. Chinese deer horn knives. Which are also called crescent moon daggers or duck blades.
The Ba’atleth is a not a sword it’s a primary arm ment to be used in the confines of a ship against heavily armored opponents to capture or kill them but this is the best video I’ve seen so far about this topic! Also common Shad L
And if you call yourself Kitsune clan, you should know that it pronounced kʲi̥t͡sɨne̞. The u is a mix phoneme between u and i, closer to the i than the u, and the e in the end is a schwa-phoneme, which means it is unpronounced, much like the e in the.
Thanks for the point; I still am German you will always here that.
If you don't pronounce the vowel in "the" then you're pronouncing the word wrongly. Schwas are reduced, unstressed vowels, but they're certainly pronounced. (Also before a word that starts with a vowel, "the" has a non-schwa pronunciation.)