How One Cheater Changed Super Mario Maker History
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 พ.ค. 2024
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merlinstarhugs
How come did they beat other cheated level in order to reach the final one?
Too bad I can't use that phone on Verizon.
@@OmgWtfTsuji Then use a different internet provider.
@@detective2221 They're not my internet provider.
Honestly, while not copping to the cheating earlier was scummy, I think the fact that someone did manage to beat it legitimately should be seen as Team 0%'s crowning achievement.
Dude, why would he? His other cheated stage got beaten way earlier, that would have told him that there was a chance Trimming could be beaten as well. Oh, and what ended up happening after his confession? Trimming got beaten anyways. So he was right in believing that it could be beaten.
@@toumabyakuyaNot sure if you're trying to justify Ahoyo's actions here.
@@JayDeeIsMyName Somewhat, yes. Unlike you, I do not like to think that everybody had malicious intentions with their actions. I preffer to believe that everybody is innocent till proven guilty.
Yeah, I don't understand why Karl was saying the achievement of Team 0% was taken away from them. From what Karl was saying the whole community was helping with it, so why didn't the level being beaten legitimately count? It was beaten before the servers were shut down.... the entire goal of Team 0%. My takeaway from this video is Team 0% achieved their goal against all odds, and some guy cheated, but it is not particularly relevant since the level was beaten before the servers were shut down anyways. Congratz to Team 0%!!!
@@toumabyakuya Please watch 13:28 and beyond again.
Glossing over Sanyx actually clearing the level is criminal imo. Need to talk about how the runners during the clear attempts found cheese for the ending that made it more consistent etc. it's literally a level uploaded with a TAS and a human beat it. That's worth celebrating still.
Facts!
Yeah this was a strange one, maybe I'm expecting too much based on some his more serious videos but there's a lot of information that he didn't bring up/talk about which kinda turn the story into a weak hit piece, the creator cheated but was waiting to be caught, he dropped out of the scene completely and I can't say that any of this was malicious and as you said; beating a TAS only level and only briefly mentioning it is completely criminal.
The writings/feeling on this one is kinda all of the place.
@@blank-dj1rc Imo the intention of the video was to talk about the cheater otherwise the tile would've been "The Mario Maker Player who achieved the impossible". So talking in deep about the heroes of this story would be off-topic
glossing over it - 12 seconds. providing a full uninterrupted showcase that glorifies the run in full giving it complete justice - 13 seconds
I think Karl did enough here 🙂
@@cattycats4 I highly disagree. We had a 15 minute video and a footnote mention that this "impossible TAS only level" was actually beaten by a real person, that's the more interesting story. I'm no writer but I feel that even I could re-arrange everything in this story quite easily to tell a much better one, about how one person did the impossible.
Kinda weird that the achievement of actually beating the cheated level was just mentioned very shortly, should have given more attention to that impressive feat.
That should have been the main point of the video tbh
Because the video wasn’t about beating it; the video was about the consequences of cheating, hence why the title is “How one CHEATER changed Super Mario Maker.”
Same. I felt that’s the biggest deal of the whole thing. Karl could’ve put more emphasis on it.
the title of the video literally lists the topic of the video. If the title of the video had something to do with what your saying it would of been titled as such. It's not weird at all actually because it wasn't the main point of the video.
Honestly this "cheater" is not the same type of villain you make others out to be. He was honestly just a young kid who wanted to see if something like this was even possible and had no idea at the time it would prevent people from completing some goal years later.
I'll give him credit for coming clean in the end.
Yes his confession was along the lines of “oh, that thing I cheated for fun? You guys are interested in it now? Well shucks… about that…” he wasn’t intending to hide some big secret.
Lunatic
Hes a huge scumbag
Yeah It's not the same level, still kinda sleezy, but definitely didn't have the intent to rob anyone of records or anything.
??? How is “I beat a level that could only beat with TAS without TAS” not something to be celebrated???
It’s definitely VERY cool but it’s a separate event from 0%. The level would have been disregarded from the beginning, as it should have, as only legit levels are part of 0%.
@@rphntw1n Well the level was cheated insofar as it required (at the time) a computer providing the exact inputs to clear it but it was completable. It’s not the same as someone creating level that cannot physically be beaten no matter what is done. As this video even highlights, that TTH was beaten legitimately in an incredibly impressive feat in and of itself. I don’t even know that if it was revealed beforehand that it should have been excluded unless it could also be demonstrated that it wasn’t physically possible to achieve legitimately.
Where there is a moral failing is on the author not revealing it sooner. That would have given the community the ability to discuss and decide whether to include it well in advance and would not have generated the media around it. If the author did leave the community before the launch and forgot about it until seeing articles, not doing so would be far more understandable even if we still must ultimately say that he should have done it much sooner regardless.
@@DeansDiscourse They did leave the community and started talking about it only in the last stretch when it got attention. It isn't even a big deal that it was done with a TAS as it was still beatable and other KNOWN TAS levels were still included. The only reason it's an issue is because arbitrary decisions and people concluding "Last level = TAS = IMPOSSIBLE".
The entire point is that the last dance should've been the celebrated level because it was legitimately uploaded by it's creator - this was a contest for non-cheated levels
Nobody knew to celebrate at the time because it wasn't considered the last level - that moment can never be recovered. It's still a cool story for trimming the herbs yes, but objectively it took away from team 0's achievement and the last dance. Why should trimming the herbs suddenly get that glory when half of what's responsible for it is cheating?
I don't think the guy is pure evil, but rather shows exactly the costs of lying - you damage the future in some untold way. In this case, robbing the moment from the last dance.
To put it another way beating a TAS is just cool - but it's been done before, beating the last dance was an achievement 6 years in the making and the moment was totally lost because some dweeb lied.
@@uponeric36 The weird thing is that other TAS levels, which were known to be TASed, were included in the list as they were deemed beatable. This one was analyzed and deemed beatable. Why is this one different? Because it was the last?
Also I wouldn't say he lied. Nobody bothered to ask, and if it wasn't for the exact circumstances and arbitrary decisions by others, nobody would have cared.
What took away the achievement wasn't that it was a TAS, but arbitrary decisions by team 0% itself.
tbh, managing to clear a cheated level is honestly an even bigger accomplishment. Sanyx should feel damn good about his abilities.
His mic was off when he beat it, but based on his reaction after he remembered to turn the mic on, he was pretty damn stoked. xD
Plus he got a nice payday for it. There was at least $2,000 in bounties active for the level. Probably more, but I wasn't tracking who all rescinded their bounties when the TAS upload was revealed.
i would brag about that endlessly, especially a very hard level.
It just goes to show how hard TTH was, it took Sanyx about 140 hours to beat it, and it is the third hardest level he has ever beaten in SMM (including SMM2).
Sanyx is a machine, his 80x triple shelljump consistency level is one of those that people fear will stop us from clearing all of SMM2 - once those servers shut down one day.
How can we be sure that he didn't cheat though. It's basically an impossible level.
@@faithgrins His mic was off? Definitely sounds cheated to me.
Man's really made Sanyx' achievment seem way less impressive than it is
This Ahoyo guy sounds like a legend. He builds Mario Maker's ultimate challenge _way back in 2017_ to show off his handmade TAS machine. Seven years later his forgotten level comes back to life and whoops the world's best players, until Sanyx proves it's human-beatable and puts Mario Maker to rest. That's rad as hell.
thank god no one visiting the video will have to watch it now should they go to the comments during the ad. nice
@@thedarkness125 bro what are you doing browsing without an ad blocker
@@Nikolai0169 using a phone
@@aidanleerharris6282 that not an excuse, you can get ad blockers on a phone
@@aidanleerharris6282 So? You can install ad blockers on your phone too, you know. Being to lazy to google how to do it isn't an excuse.
I don't blame him for confessing at the worst time. He only realized this was a problem when the worst time came around- but how was he supposed to know it WOULD end up being cleared legitimately? He was probably just scared that the servers would shut down and the community would feel defeated because they failed to beat his level.
I imagine in his eyes, coming clean was just the responsible thing to do.
I do think this makes an interesting story though at least, so it's not a total loss.
It wasn't even the worst time.
It wasn't the best, that would have been before it became the last level ( but by then, he had already left the community for years, without being able to realize his initial intentions )
The worst time would have been after the deadline and if the level wasn't beaten ( which, as you said, was the outcome he probably was expecting, since this was the whole purpose of the level )
Coming clean when he did still allowed for the combining of the "This level was cleared by someone other than the creator" and the "You known what ? Not even the creator could complete this level, it was made to be impossible, but it was cleared, and before the deadline" hypes into one, and made the determination to grind even more impressive ( as the assurance that it was possible was replaced by the knowledge that it was supposed to be impossible )
I wouldn't even call this guy a cheater, this is the first time I see Karl miss the mark with this wide of a margin. He's the only one I've seen to take this angle, and he shouldn't have.
Exactly. This guy created an impressive tool that could absolutely break Mario Maker and kept it to himself, only using it to upload a single level that he felt actually was beatable by humans. If he had released the tool, thousands of unbeatable levels would have been uploaded.
@@draghettis6524 Yeah, this video is weirdly antagonistic, calling him a 'cheater' and saying he lied, but this wasn't a competition nor was he directly confronted about this prior to it becoming important. I agree Karl's portrayal here was a little inaccurate.
It's still unfortunate of course, and I can understand the frustration, yet pointing fingers at this guy feels like an attempt to vent frustration by putting a face to the problem to take it out on.
@@delaneyelekes8660Karl is just reporting the feelings many people had, especially those who were members of Team 0%. The announcement legitimately made people feel sad and bittersweet, and it decreased the hype and attention that Sanyx should've gotten for beating the level.
Cheaters shouldn't cheat 👍
I think I'd disagree. The fact that someone cleared the "impossible" level makes the feat that much more impressive to me. Everyone involved should be super proud of themselves.
I feel the problem was that confessing at the time they did could have jeopardized its clear status as many people were discouraged in beating a cheated level. Staying silent about it would keep it more likely, so it's a miracle that it got cleared after all.
@@gamemakeraray
Staying silent would have been the absolute worst move possible.
Imagine, you're Team 0% and you have been defeated by this level.
But then, who-knows-how-long after the deadline, the creator comes in and says "Yeah, this level was made to be impossible without TAS, I made it to show the community that I had created the tools for this, but it didn't got the widespread attention needed for that before I left the community"
How would you feel ? For this, it doesn't matter that the level was eventually beaten, because the creator made the level for it to be unbeatable, and thus likely considered this scenario more probable than any alternative.
The best move would've been to come clean before it became the last level and had an unreasonable amount of time put into it, of course.
But failing that, confessing before the deadline was the second best move.
It made the clear more impressive, since there wasn't the assurance that it had been beaten by the creator before, instead replacing it with the knowledge it was both TAS'd and made to be the closest to impossible for humans the creator could manage ( something which made the grind require more motivation, as seen with how all but two or three of the players grinding it quit upon the news ), and it combined the hype of "I was the first non-creator to beat this" and of "Not even the creator could clear this level, but *I* did it" in one.
I wouldn't call this guy a cheater, this was made with a noble, or at least neutral goal, and this is not the tale of the "malicious cheater" that Karl usually tells. Maybe he defaulted to it due to being so used to conmen and "evil" cheaters ? But he was the only one to use this approach, and for the simple reason that it is the wrong one.
This is not the tale of cheating souring what should have been celebrated by all.
This is the tragic tale of a monumental achievement ( TASing Mario Maker back in 2017 ) going unnoticed for years, and later accidentally hindering another monumental achievement ( 0%ing the game ) through the lack of clarification, only to make it even more impressive once the truth was revealed.
It is the tale of how everyone, both those in the community and those outside of it ( like Trimming's creator, who had left it years ago ), united for the ultimate fight, and succeeded against more-than-impossible odds.
An inspiring tale, one every fandom wishes it had.
@@draghettis6524 You know what, I think I agree with you... Staying silent would have been such a fitting troll move, but having the level creator confess did propose the challenge to those who were committed to beating it, and the others who didn't actually want to try can go do something else.
However way this situation would have unfolded, I think it would have been suited for this game and its community, either as the silent ultimate troll move or a bonus challenge that was against the odds.
@@draghettis6524bro could've shared the TAS but he didn't because he was sour nobody liked his cheated level. So he lied.
Wow, how heroic.
I do think he should have announced it, because it really wasn't fair to keep people stuck on trying to beat it when they really shouldn't need to bother. However, the question isn't about what should've happened. It's about what did happen. And what happened was that his timing was the worst possible time in terms of the greater hype of the challenge. The victory had a sense of hollowness, and there was a big chance the clear might not have happened before the deadline at all. The clear was exciting, but no longer expected.
Anyway, knowing it's TAS didn't actually change the environment too much. Runners had already determined exactly what made it so difficult, and they knew just how precise you would need to be. It was nice to beat a cheater, sure, but it was no longer this massive community effort that everybody was engaged in. It was just like, "Huh, serves the guy right, big congrats to Sanyx."
Poo believed what he’s told is the truth.
Disagree with this video. He wasn’t the one who started this challenge. Since it was unknown and forgotten, he had no obligations to really report it at the time.
He actually confessed at the best timing due to the fact that this level blew up, made him aware and therefore removed from the list.
The fact that he build a TAS bot at the time was more impressive and furthermore someone beating the ‘unbeatable’ level was the highlight of the video for me.
I think Karl got the narrative wrong on this one, SMM is a game all about messing around and trolling, seeing what fun and chaos comes out when everyone has access to easy game making. Having an impossible level seem possible, be admitted to be impossible, then actually get beaten is the SMM story
To me it feels like the part about it being beaten is irrelevant. Largely because of the convenience of the fact and because that run was unlikely possible to scrutinize and verify. Narration of this video lays it on thick about missed perception of the level legitimacy and it being a backstab for the whole community of speedrunners. Did Ahoyo gloat at all? If not, shove your condemnations. The reasons were legitimate. 0% came into existence later, they don't get to get offended.
The last level to beat basically being one big troll seems very fitting for Mario Maker
Insert evil laugh
Very True.
Get that garbage outta here
Absolutely perfect if you ask me! Plus he wasn’t aware his level was one of the last until quite late in the run to the ends.
For sure, it's much funnier this way XD
Absolute madlad beating a TAS only level.
To me this is the real story here. Makes me wonder if that was also cheated.
@@headsupfiction8582Nope, sanyx is just that good, he streamed himself grinding out attempts on the level for several hundred hours, and he got close a couple times as well.
@@headsupfiction8582This clear actually was done live
@@headsupfiction8582there were quite a few cheated clears by the time Sanyx got this one done. 10, I think. This one they made sure was legit.
This flies very much under the radar in this video. Ahoyo created his own TAS tool for the Wii U. That is absolutely wild. To fake a Mario maker level. The amount of work for this.
Even more crazy a human has beaten this level. Absolutely crazy.
It's not a tragedy. It's another victory for the community, as a TAS-only level was actually beaten by a human despite being meant to be impossible
Love your videos, but I absolutely diagree with the conclusions here.
Too much emphasis was put into the faults of Ahoyo, while the merits of Sanyx91 are so rapidly passed by, almost shrugged off and even downplayed, failing to give them the importance they absolutely deserve.
It's our perception that defines the most of what is good or bad: moping around, treating this like a failure MAKES IT a failure; treating this as the INSANE ACHIEVEMENT that it is, an unbeatable level beaten nonetheless, not only makes it a far more memorable experience, but also honours in a far better way the inhuman effort of everyone behind the team.
Highlighting how this was a failure ends up killing the significance of the whole project, leaves a bitter taste in everyone's mouth and *taints its legacy permanently.*
This should remind us of the power of human will strength and cooperation, not shove it under a rug, trivialising the merits of the people here.
Things are what you want them to be, a positive mindset changes everything.
Hearing that the author of the level confessed at the absolutely worst time makes this story far more tragic. Though I think that learning that the level was cheated should make the fact that it was eventually beaten MORE impressive, not less.
I think the timing is perfect if he really did intend to troll with it. Top tier 10/10 trolling.
Next time don’t waste your life on pointless nonsense like speed running.
had he confessed earlier, people would be amused and even impressed he created his own TAS tools at the time there were none.
@@reginaldforthright805 Are you lost?
@@mistermustachiogmc1256 This video has been up for only 45 minutes. They're 100% just here to annoy people.
From my personal understanding of the situation, Ahoyo was very disconnected from the community during his time of inactivity, and was not aware that his level was last until the last few weeks. He knew that he had to come out, and as a member of the community, he did not want to make them disappointed or ruin their accomplishments. I do not believe he had any ill intent with this, it is just unfortunate that the events lined up for this to have been one of the worst times to admit a level was faked. I will not be putting any shame onto Ahoyo for this, and in the end, I am happy for what the community managed to accomplish... an even bigger end than they could've ever hoped for.
If you were around during that time there was immense infighting due to the TAS discourse, him coming out and admitting it was actually really good for the community
@@SC_Blast Plus wasn't he a kid when he did it? I dunno, kids do dumb things. BarbarousKing said it best. Raking someone over the coals for messing around as a kid is dumb, and him building a TAS when everyone said it couldn't be done on Wii U is pretty hype.
He planned the whole thing to reveal that TAS in mm was a thing but the level didn't get enough attention and he forgot all about it and moved on
I think he's the real hero here.
This really is a bizarre video as far as how Karl scripted it. I've already watched 2 or 3 videos on this level about a month ago and they both mentioned how this level was meant to show off the ability to TAS in SMM. The guy wasn't trying to make an impossible troll to ruin everything, he just made a mistake by not revealing it when the level didn't get any attention.
IDK this just feels really weird for Karl to cover when it was an innocent mistake that was cleared up over a month ago. The guy is completely uninvolved with the community now and this video will probably just send a wave of immature people to harass him.
I know the message of the video is "don't cheat levels" but it sounded almost like "if you cheat a level, don't tell anyone you cheated it and let people have their glory when they eventually beat it" lmao
I feel like Karl Jobst criticized Ahoyo way too much. I remind you, Ahoyo made a TAS for Wii U in 2017, when even in 2024 (before he revealed it himself) a TAS tool didn't exist. Cheating is not a good thing, but I feel like the problem lies more in the community, than in Ahoyo himself. As he himself stated he wanted to reveal a TAS tool as soon as people realized the level was too unreasonable. And to his credit - he did. He appeared after some years of silence to clarify the situation when he began being accused of cheating. Sure, maybe it was better regardless to reveal it when the level was initially TAS-cleared despite the lack of interest in the level, but I feel like Ahoyo is not to blame in this situation (or even if, then definitely not to a such extent).
Also Sanyx beating Trimming the Herbs was so unreal, especially for me personally (I'm not a Mario Maker player; I don't play games almost at all; but I do follow the communities). I knew of Trimming the Herbs some years prior to it being the final level, and, well, when the true situation unveiled, I just thought it wouldn't be beaten. As well as Sanyx's clear lining up with many notable achievements in other communities I follow (I personally think that April 2024 was the best month in gaming), it was so unreal to witness. I remember waking up that day and the first thing TH-cam recommended to me was Sanyx's completion of TtH.
And I feel like it's wrong to assume that because the last cleared level was initially cheated it's like the community didn't get a good ending at all (because the "true" last level (TLD) wasn't considered the last and THE final level (TTH) also wasn't). The fact that TTH is beaten is already a huge achievement and while The Last Dance being the final level is poetic, I feel like the last cleared level being a cheated one is the only thing that could be a more deserving ending to such a journey.
It was a good ending.
I don't think Karl put enough emphasis on how amazing it was that old mate beat a TAS level. Thats insane.
I'm kinda disappointed with this video. He just wasted the whole video shaming the TAS guy as if that was the only valid point of view, or the only thing to talk about
@@aquelecientista4491 It sucks, but he probably gets more views focusing on the negative side of this. I wish this was more about someone overcoming the odds and somehow beating a cheated run. If Karl had uplifted the runner who overcame the cheated run and made the cheater the footnote of this video I feel I would have appreciated this video a lot more.
@@fendour_it’s kind of out of character for Karl cus he always makes videos about giving people props for doing insane runs. I think he just had an idea for the video in mind and he didn’t really think about the other aspect of it, it being, that a TAS run was completed by a human
Sanyx is "the uploader" now, the bastard child of a level now has it's rightful home among other legit levels.
Honestly, this is the least objectionable cheated run I've seen on this channel. Yeah, the timing of the reveal is unfortunate, but it doesn't change the reality that Team 0% accomplished their goal, nor does it diminish the coolness of a WiiU TASbot. I'm more mad at Nintendo for shitting on preservationists than I am at Ahoyo.
They likely had to shut down the server for cost reasons. Sure you could argue that they're a multi-billion dollar company, but that status doesn't remain forever.
@@DarkStarCoreXThat might be so but then they should allow people to independently host the maps and to install them. If other people are willing to take on the hosting costs when you aren’t you should encourage that.
@@DeansDiscourse But then more people would simply play old, working, fun games, especialy if new content for them is created by the community itself, instead of buying the new game nintendo wants them on.
@@MrRast0r Absolutely that could be a problem for them from their perspective but that’s no longer the argument that it simply costs them too much to continue hosting it, that’s an entirely different justification.
One is: We can’t afford to continue hosting this because it costs too much.
Solution: let others host it
The other is: We don’t want to host this or allow others to host it because we’d make more money.
Solution: shutter the servers and force people to buy new products
The two reasons produce completely different logical responses.
@@DarkStarCoreX We aren't talking about MMO servers with millions of players but servers for uploading and downloading a couple files. This could be done by a $100 computer in some cupboard nowadays and unless I see real numbers I won't believe any of those "cost reasons" claims because they seem so obviously wrong.
More likely they either couldn't be bothered to do some required updates or just want you to buy the newest version of their game/console.
The last legitimate level was called "The last dance". The remaining level in the game was a troll all along. Said level ended being beaten legitimately by a human player anyways.
This is actually a very good ending for Super Mario Maker.
🤓
I like how he developed TAS hardware for console Wii U gameplay when the community thought such a thing couldn't possibly exist in 2017.
And the story is that he trolled a Mario Maker upload, and not that the guy is a pretty dope engineer.
Not sure I get the "bummer" angle here. The impossible level was actually beaten, right after the creator came out and said he TAS'd it. That's a lot more interesting than a not-impossible level being beaten.
The bummer comes from the fact that since team 0% only plays noncheated levels, when ahoyo admitted to cheating, the climatic moment for the ending vanished, and it felt like a cop out. Sanyx beating it was amazing, but since it technically wasnt needed because team0% had already won, it felt like an extra point rather than a insane ending.
@@DamienSMM I completely disagree with this... If anything it makes the achievement even better. Team 0%, whose goal was to leave zero percent of levels unbeaten, ended with a level literally never beaten by man. With every other level someone cleared them at least once to upload them, so ending in this way feels even more symbolic while also demonstrating the absolutely insane skills of the players.
The way karl did the video feels in bad taste to me... Rather than focusing on the absolute insanity of the final clear, he instead talked about how sour and ruined this moment was. It felt like it being cleared was an afterthought, and he was more focused on bashing the person who uploaded a cheated level, as opposed to actually celebrating the achievements of these amazing players.
@@Cacti54321 What happened was that everyone knew Trimming the Herbs was going to be the final level so a lot of streamers didn't put in effort to clearing the last few levels until only Trimming the Herbs remained. Then it was a race with a bunch of streamers putting in dozens of hours to try to be the first to beat it. People were getting more consistent and progress was slowly being made. Streamers were getting 3x-10x their normal viewers as everyone was hyped to see who would make it first. Thousands of dollars of bounties were being posted for whoever got the clear.
Then Ahoyo announced that the level was cheated. The hyped ended and most people stopped watching. The celebration was kind of scattered because everyone wasn't expecting Team 0% to end at that moment and a lot of people had notices set to ping them when Trimming the Herbs was beaten so they'd know when to show up. A couple streamers kept at it, but most quit. Sanyx went on to beat it, which was amazing, but it wasn't the race to the finish that everyone had been expecting. To find out that Team 0% had already ended about a week earlier was deflating for a lot of people.
@@DamienSMM this is a strange comment. team 0 percent wasn’t playing TAS levels not out of principle but because this and the other level the guy made are the only two TAS levels in the entire servers because he came up with a new way to do it when no one thought it was possible. they didn’t have a list of cheated vs non cheated levels they were completing it was just assumed all level were uncheated
@@Cacti54321 tbf if he were to take that angle, how much could he really talk about? He could talk about the grind and the race to beat it in more detail, but there honestly isn’t too much more there. Ofc it is an amazing achievement and I’m really proud of my friend Sanyx
You could've really framed this moment in a much better light. Making it about the story of the guy who actually legitimately beat the level... Even being more amazing because he was technically the first one ever to beat it since not even the author did ya know...
fake drama and clickbait, he is a real youtuber now.
No
No, I think he did it justice. Ahoyo deserves the lashing for his asshole move.
The youtuber Henryst made a much better video covering this subject. It's sad how little views he got compared to the quality of his video.
@@aquelecientista4491thanks for the mention, im gonna check that vid out
I think it should be noted that Ahoyo couldn't have known that this would become the last uncleared level, nor does it seem like he was just holding onto it for the purpose of ruining this moment. The level did turn out to be humanly viable, and it's highly possible that other TASed levels were beaten in the rush to clear SMM1. The timing is unfortunate, and I wouldn't at all say to excuse Ahoyo of his choices, however I would say it's not worth demonizing him over.
This video is very weird... Firstly Ahoyo was long gone from the community so he could've easily just not know about Team 0% trying to beat it as the last level in Mario Maker. Secondly it's not as if he thought people were actually going to try beating every uncleared level in Mario Maker so why would it be such a big deal to cheat a level in the first place? This video is all very accusational against Ahoyo and it's weird and harsh...
Also when Trimming The Herbs got cleared it was a huge achievement! And it was amazing, but you barely even mention it and act like "Oh yeah it got cleared but no one cared" when it was a huge deal and everyone was talking about it (even I who hasn't played Mario Maker in years knows about it).
I'm going off other yt videos I've watched to be fair but I trust actual Mario Maker youtubers over someone who found out about it yesterday 💀
You're 100% right though. I feel like Karl's newest vids are somewhat very accusational and harsh, and people that many times didn't mean any harm.
Ahoyo definitely didn't have malicious intent, like legit, just imagine he didn't remember he did this shit, and then saw his cheated level was the only remaining one years later.
He might have been a kid when he did the level as well, and let's be honest, there was no way he could've known his level would be the last.
He also just seemed very repetitive saying the same things over and over to make the video longer I guess. This video could have been like 2 minutes long and still had the same amount of information.
@@Boogy17 Yes seriously, like cmon this is not the same as people who cheat for attention. Mario Maker is not a competitive game firstly, so who cares if one level is cheated unless in very niche circumstances like this. And Ahoyo's intent was obviously not malicious, it was the opposite, so what is the point of getting mad at him? Things like this just happen in life. It sounds like Karl found out about this situation, took a harsh viewpoint that not even the people affected take, for some personal reason probably, made this video where he's maulding over it (still a topic he has no personal connection to), a video full of biased commentary against the guy, glossing over the positives and fixating on the negativity, end up with one of the most cringeworthy videos I've watched in months. What is even the point, genuinely??? Except money. Cause now you've got a bunch of people who don't really know about the situation who will remember this guy for being awful I guess. I went on a tangent just now but oooooooh the greed and inhumanity of youtubers oooooooh.
@@overlordghs1081 bro is not beating the extended youtube video for watch time allegations 🤣🤦♀️ But yeah all that time just to shit on him more, very much using him for money.
@@SasukaRH yeah, it's really sad to see as well. I guess Karl just stopped caring trying to make his audience have their own point of view. All of his recent vids about cheaters just leave a sour taste in my mouth.
It's like he just found out drama and negativity makes more views, and tries to capitalize on that.
Ahoyo hadn't been in the Mario Maker community for like 3 years. I don't think he admitted it when he did to cause damage. That's just when he became aware of what was happening.
[Erroneous claims removed. My sincere apologies.]
Pretty sure that's bullshit. He would receive questions about the level as soon as there are less than 20 left.
@@davidlevy706 This is not true lmao, you can check the wayback archives of that video and see that the description never changes until 22nd March, the day it was revealed TTH was TASed .What you showed are comments under the video by watchers, not updates by Ahoyo.
@@bartek3618 You're correct (and right to laugh at me).
After the snapshots failed to load in Chrome (I should have tried Firefox), I viewed the page source and somehow isolated the wrong text, which I mistakenly attributed to Ahoyo.
I was certain that I recalled him making such statements (if not on TH-cam, someplace else), but I may have misremembered.
I sincerely apologize for the error (and for muddying the waters).
@@davidlevy706 No worries, we all make mistakes
you're telling me it was cheated and team zero still beat it? that's even cooler
Yep that's what happened. it was marked as TAS only but some persistent players ended up beating the level a few days before the server shut down
@@Simoss13 just 1 player (Sanyx) ended up beating it
Scrolled through the comments before watching and I see the general sentiment is that he only discusses the actual cheating and not the whole, beating the cheated level accomplishment. That's such an odd thing to leave out lmao
It's because Karl is unfortunately a vulture youtuber who feeds off the failings and controversy of other people
I think you got it a bit wrong, Ahoyo confessed and explained how he cheated, which made everybody sad because it robbed them the moment, but then days later the herbs got trimmed and everybody celebrated. Even though the level was cheated, it was still beaten in time and Team 0% had their original goal finished. Yours was the first video I saw that thought this moment wasn't magical, everybody else I watched took it as an even crazier cooler moment, heck, the level was hacked and it was beaten anyway! It was a "science said it was impossible" moment that they still did it anyway, that's way cooler than the level being legitimate!!
i think the word "cheater" in this context is also misleading, because it implies he truly wanted the level to go down in history with no one knowing it was uploaded by a TAS. This level is a massive achievement all around, because as far as the community was aware, TAS wasn't a thing for the Wii U. Ahoyo planned on unveiling his TAS. The problem is TTH seemed not so hard. There was no uproar about it, so the unveiling never happened. I don't view this as cheating. He intended on releasing this TAS to the public. I don't know why he didn't otherwise, but maybe it's a good thing he didn't, because there would have been millions of TAS uploaded levels on Mario maker.
Yeah, you can tell that Karl really wanted to push the "cheater drama" angle on this one, regardless of how accurate it is.
@@drzoidberg71 and here I was thinking cheater meant someone who uploaded a TASed level, lied about it, lied about proof and never said anything until he was found out 🤔silly me.
Oh he "intended". He iNtEnDed. then that's a different story now. U goofy ahh
As soon as I'd heard TtH was beaten legit I knew Karl was going to do an episode, but I thought it would be a feel-good triumph story about a badass beating THE impossible level. As it stands Karl barely mentioned Sanyx as a footnote and something about that left a sour taste in my mouth. This take felt to me like something Karl's haters could point to when they say he only plays up cheater drama even when it's not the full story.
I think what Karl is saying is that the drama has a whole takes away from the final moment. Sure, it was still very cool, and a great achievement, but it still took the lime light away from the overall goal. It was unnecessary drama. That was the story. Not them finishing it.
I disagree...the fact that the creator of the level cheated and someone STILL beat it is god tier insanity, not disapointing!!!
Ahoyo still sucks
@@DamienSMM Made a level and TAS that nobody cared about and then forgot about it how insanely evil
@@Gulitize uploaded bombs5, a level which was famous and celebrated in the community as one of the hardest achievements in all of Mario maker. He was praised for his skill and dedication. And it turns out he was lying and pretending to be legit. Let people spend hundreds of hours on trimming the herbs before confessing. After not being caught decided to not confess for 7 years. Also using TAS to upload a level to the servers is considered cheating, especially when you pretend you did it legit.
@@DamienSMMalso gloating in real time about tth being uncleared through march using the clear video's description, knowing perfectly well that it was TAS'ed. yep, not malicious at all. 🤡
I think you underplayed just how unlikely it seemed that the level was tassed, given that Ahoyo had to literally invent a device to do it. It was essentially thought Impossible, because it kind of was
It should be a wake up call to the high level players that they can be 100% wrong about something they're world experts in
Damn Jobst has fallen from one of my favorite TH-camrs celebrating the achievements of speedrunners to completely overlooking Sanyx’s achievement because they literally did the impossible. What the hell dude
Frankly this is ridiculous. I don't see why this isn't a better ending to the mario maker mission. Beating a level so hard that it's basically frame perfect tas only. If anything, I'd be more hyped. It's like when the big bad villian reveals he was going to cheat in the final battle and the heroes manage to do the impossible.
It was, but yeah I don’t really know why Karl unfortunately went this route.
Actually I feel like I do, so here’s my theory:
My guess is that Karl had initially only heard of the incident of the cheated submission when he started making this video.
From his perspective, the cheated submission was the story he was focused on, causing him to lose sight of the significance of the level being defeated legitimately before the servers went down.
It was a huge victory for the community, and was the perfect end to their triumphant adventure.
Sadly, Karl likely missed the mark due to being too hyper focused on the cheating aspect of the story for his video, and I’m sure will come to see that in time (if he hasn’t already).
seeing trimming the herbs cleared live is actually one of the coolest things i’ve ever seen, the vibes were insane
I was there too! Unfortunately my arcusGood emote didn’t show on the chat replay in this video.
Clunk.
“The vibes” XD love internet lingo
First time I heard some one say that outside of normal humans was this dude name Conor from trash taste. A anime podcast I watch to be able to relate to my cousin. She one of the new gen humans :3
@@mariorodriguez-ws4xs idk what you are trying to say, but thats been a saying since the 1960s... and i
@@William-Morey-Baker than you my meat sack, use it like I do. But I swear the new gen uses our slang differently……like they stoped inventing and just are re-writing……*take hit of virtual joint*
feels like I’m watching seeds grow into trees over and over but each seed grows into the same tree, kinda seems boring to me.
*takes real hit of joint”
Life has existed forever and I’m blessed to still want to exist
*takes bong hit*
Niggggaaaa!!!! You remember when kids would get broken just for being into games,anime,card, anything outside of a bullies normal? And now what a life. Humans who are uncomfortable with outside can survive making a living inside.
Rest in peace to all those that couldn’t make it…..they would get bullied bad.
*drinks water*
Life is great, existence for me myself and I is amazing, may the crazy’s share a beer or two….but I prefer a smoke
I was also there for that, props to sanyx for being able to grind that watching him running into spikes every 3 seconds for hours a day made the whole process look really frustrating
Hot take: without this level no one would have really paid attention to Team Zero's efforts, and beating that level is the biggest achievement of all.
Wait, you said @ 14:00 that somebody cleared it before servers shut down. Why did you just mention this guy in passing, only giving him maybe 5 seconds of video time, and then continue on about the tragedy that was this level and its creator?
sanyx's clearing of the level was still an epic moment. It was crazy seeing word of it spread across twitch and the rest of the community. It was extraordinarily impressive that a human was able to beat the level and sanyx deserves all the glory for his achievement.
I'm still happy with the ending we got where Sanyx cleared TTH. The unfortunate ending would have been if no one was able to clear TTH before the servers shut down
This is the real answer. People are getting upset of nothing imo
@@freakindarko Exactly. This video is extremely polarizing, and not at all representative of the Mario Maker community. I've heard nothing but happiness for what happened with the clearing of TTH, and I'll always state it's a good thing that TAS wasn't released to the public. There would have been endless TAS uploaded levels on the mario maker servers.
I was really glad we did beat it, but I wouldn't have been sad if we didn't. It simply wasn't on the list of unbeaten levels anymore. They had accomplished their goal. This made it so that when it was beaten, it didn't have the fan fair it should've had. This is an unfortunate fact of the situation.
@@drzoidberg71I've heard many people, especially those in Team 0%, express the sentiments described in this video. Being mad at Apoyo, not feeling like the victory tasted as sweet, etc.
@@innertuber4049 oh sure, when the TAS was first announced, disillusionment set in. But once TTH was cleared, it was like everyone and their mother popped off.
I think this is getting a little blown out of proportion. The creator of the cheated level is just a random person who made a mistake in not revealing the truth earlier but villainizing them for this is wild
Definitely more of an innocent mistake than people are seeming to think imo
Building your own custom Wii U input cheat-robot-controller in 2017, that's actually impressive, give the man a good job :D
I get that the point of the video is “team 0% got robbed of the final clear” but to label the whole thing as as being the fault of a “cheater” was a pretty bad angle in my opinion.
Ahoyo (the level creator) had the intention of making an absurdly difficult level that was TAS only to show the community that a TAS tool was posible in the WiiU. He would have revealed it when people started talking about it’s imposible mechanics but the level didn’t get that much attention so the reveal didn’t happen because no one questioned it’s legitimacy. Only after it got the attention of being one of the last levels did it get people talking and making Ahoyo admit it was made to promote that TAS was possible all the way back in 2017, admittedly all but to late and leaving everyone with a sour taste in their mouth. He had no real bad meaning in his actions so the way Ahoyo is talked about in the video make him look malicious, which was in no way his intention and I think it will give a lot of people a bad impression of him.
It's a really bad taste method to go about something so silly. Malicious no, but undeniable negative impact for no good reason yes.
the not-at-all-malicious ahoyo kept updating the clear videos's description during march to gloat about tth being unbeaten in real time. all done not maliciously of course, definitely.
This comment needs to be upvoted/liked so more people read it. This video is wrong in so many ways; not only does it bash Ahoyo when it was not needed at all but it also just glances over the TTH legit completion by Sanyx which was a monumental achievement that should have been covered in more detail.
ahoyo is a narcissistic loser, really. he got the TAS working, he made a brutal level to show it off, and he wanted to be the guy in the spotlight when the level got dissected. but then it never happened. nobody cared about him. so he just vanished. "fine if you wont pay attention to me, ill take my ball and leave!" and we continued to have fun without him. now it comes out that this level is the last challenge, and he has to come clean and admit hes a cheater. he got his time in the spotlight, but its not exactly what you want, you dont want to go down in the stories as the guy that cheated and ruined the fun for everyone else. he shouldve shown off the TAS shit when he made it, so the level couldve been rightfully deleted. cheaters shouldnt cheat, its a simple rule.
@@RiX20xx care to provide evidence? Your statements make me curious so I checked the Wayback Machine, there was no changes made in the description in his videos prior to 22 March - the day he posted his public apology. On March 23rd he changed his description to include the full story.
If he did indeed do what you said, that was a scumbag move. However, your story feels really out of place and has not been mentioned by any others so far. I feel like if Ahoyo did indeed do that there would be countless snapshots but I could find none.
12:08 I really think this paints the wrong picture about the community. People weren't stupid, and there wasn't "no reasonable, logical explanation" that was more likely.
Because the options we had were either:
1. Ahoyo developed TAS technology that literally no one else had been able to do at the time, and didn't share it.
2. Ahoyo cleared TTH legitimately. TTH is ridiculously hard, that is true. But from what I understand, this type of incredibly obscure tech was Ahoyo's specialty, and he proved he was good at bombs5 which required similar types of weird tech.
Neither option seems plausible. With hindsight and from someone outside of the community, it might seem obvious, but I can guarantee that it wasn't at all during the time. So I, and many other people, chose to give Ahoyo the benefit of the doubt. Your examples in the video (Yoshi and GrandPooBear) are on extreme ends of the spectrum, and don't reflect what most people thought. In fact TheRileyC unlisted the video you brought up and explained in a community post that while he still believed Ahoyo cheated, he didn't have enough evidence and he wasn't happy with it.
This was not a case of everybody blindly believing in Ahoyo because of his "street cred". And while this is not a bad video, I'm seeing a lot of comments from people who have been led to believe this is the case. This wasn't an "even trusted players can cheat" situation, it was more of a "neither option seems likely, so innocent until proven guilty" situation.
Yeah, I like a good Jobst video but this one doesn't seem to paint the most complete picture of what was going on. There's already videos on the subject that do a much better job of it.
adding onto this, if anytime somebody does something slightly suspicious in a competitive gaming community we instantly assume bad faith and call hacks, we are destroying the credibility and trust in our top players. as seen in the spaceuk situation in geometry dash, its important to hear someone out when they make a hackusation. however, if we normalize making hackusations where nothing definitive comes out of it, it becomes impossible to trust anyone, and everyone loses.
Yeah, Barb had the best take on it imo. Just a kid being dumb and building a TAS everyone said couldn't be built. Sucks if they didn't beat it, but he came clean and they beat it anyway.
Karl: "Now Legends....."
Me: Rapidly taps screen 8 times
Sponsorblock.
You should have changed the ending, because the level was actually cleared legit before the servers shutdown.
I want to believe the creator was trying to be honest because they saw the trouble, didn't think it'd be cleared so tried to come clean as to not let the community end on disappointment after the efforts of Team 0%, only to be proven wrong and have the level be beatable despite cheating/intentions
100%
I think Karl is way too harsh on him. The main harm is done to the few players who tried to actually beat it (and who wouldn't have done it if he confessed earlier). Other than that, it doesn't matter too much.
I mean he did cheat sooooo
@@RetsamXit made it so we never actually got an opportunity to all go check the site together and see Mario Maker had actually been cleared. Instead, the site announced it after he announced he had cheated.
That felt really icky.
I don't think Ahoyo believed that TTH was _unbeatable._ I think even once the serious players dissected it they didn't believe it was unbeatable. Like, the other level he uploaded, Bomb5, _was_ beaten, and it's longer and contains some extremely tight precision in some of its sections as well. It was more that there were only two weeks left and it was hard enough that it was reasonable to believe that it wouldn't get beaten in that time. (The dude who finally did beat it put in dozens of thousands of attempts.)
I mean, I think it makes it more impressive. Someone beat a level made for a TAS. Let me put it this way. Let’s say someone’s trying to get the best time in a foot race. As the race goes on, the previous person admits that the last 3rd of it he did on a modified Segway. Someone beats that person’s time. That’s MORE impressive, not less. It’s a classic 80s 90s sports movie.
Yeah, he beat a cheater. The cheater would've been disqualified anyway, but how embarrassing is it to cheat and still lose? The guy that did it deserves extra recognition for still winning.
I personally agree but some people feel differently I suppose.
@@HebiSnakenah, nobody feels differently. It's not that the win shouldn't be celebrated, submit that it wasn't celebrated. The hype was mostly gone by that point. It was exciting to see it happen, but it was bittersweet.
Yeah this was my first thought
@@innertuber4049 Honestly, I view the original final level clear being the 100% completion stage and the true Trimming The Herbs clear as a 101% completion like certain old-school games did.
I think the whole drama with trimming the herbs being TAS made Sanyx's legitimate clear of the level that much more impressive. The fact that he continues to push until the bitter end, when everyone else had given up, made his accomplishment that much more special.
So basically all the evidence was circumstantial and if he hadn't confessed we still wouldn't be able to be sure.
Especially because the level was actually beaten legitimately, which means it wasn't hacked. It was just simply really hard.
I think that beating a cheated level is even of a bigger achievement than if it was kept in secret tbh.
14:00 ... WHY!?!?!?!!?!? Why wasn't this celebrated!?
Sanyx beat a level that was cheated onto the game. That's an incredible achievement!
It was actually celebrated. I honestly don't get what he's talking about with this. Yeah it didn't have news stories, but gaming accomplishments seldom do.
This was 100% celebrated, it got a ton of attention in the community and was one of the most hype @everyone pings I have ever received!
I think Sanyx's achievement should be the emphasized point of this video rather than the long ass repeating the level's author cheating process.
Yeah that's a rare L for Karl on that. People were stoked. Hell, Im not even that into Mario but when I saw TTH got cleared I still cheered lol.
🤣
I feel like youre making this out to be a speedrun cheater that cheated world records for major games. He made a homemade TAS, made some short level that never got played, and then saw "oh this is the last level, i better tell them its not possible so they dont keep trying!" Theres probably hundreds of levels that they beat that someone made with cheats and thought it was impossible, but this one was just made way better
I could not imagine, at any point in time in my life of physically dismantling a controller and integrating it with a computer just to have it do all the inputs for me in a game. That is WILD! Even more wild is Sanyx just saying "Hold my beer." and going beast mode, amazing story all around!
GrandPooBear saying that Karl Jobst Videos are fun and then ending up in one while saying that is the funniest thing to me :D
GPB is going to be so happy he is in the video.
That was the best part of the whole video.
He was so confident that the stage was legit and the tech wasnt there
@@legendarymoosemanWell, to his credit, _no one_ knew the tech was there. Maybe he shouldn't have been so confident though.
Oh well, I'm sure he'll take being in the Karl Jobst video in good fun. After all, he got the coveted role of "They're Too Good to Cheat" Guy.
@@noahblack914 The tech for a TAS is always there, the only question is the effort required to do it.
While the last dance was an amazing last level, I see trimming the herbs as the secret optional boss. Truely, a level no one had ever beaten. Cheated, but still theoretically possible. In a way, I think this was the perfect sendoff to Mario Maker.
I don't understand why we're mad about the timing of the confession?
If Ahoyo had confessed earlier, nobody would've cared.
Sure they could've waited for the map to get beaten... if they'd known that was gonna happen.
But, they didn't think it was possible to beat the level, so why would they wait for that?
When there's a lot of scrutinty around you, that seems like the most logical time to confes?
Ahoyo made something great, and the world blinked at it. Then that thing became THE FINAL PIECE and suddenly everyone cared, so he dropped the truth at the time to cause the most damage. Great stories need great villains, GG Ahoyo.
It's not a cosmetic change. Munchers have stupid hitboxes, but spikes take it away. The spike hitboxes make zero sense and are far harder to deal with. Seen enough Ryukahr to know that spike hitboxes are not only broken, but extend far beyond their sprite on one side and don't on the other.
Why am I not surprised that someone is weighing in with their expert knowledge of Mario they gleaned from watching it.
Hard to hold it against the guy, honestly, very understandable to be hyped to do the reveal, then nobody actually bothers with the level at all, and over time you just sorta forget about it.
Still a little hard to understand why he didn't publish the DIY TAS device he build though, that alone would be huge for the community of not just this game but probably every WiiU game.
on the other side, there could have been way more cheating if he published it
@@Edwo1 Very true, as well.
Still, he clearly intended to publish it, but honestly it does make sense to kinda forget about it over time when intending to do it in connection with something that never ended up happening.
I think the reasoning to not publish a DIY TAS is that Bombs5 was supposed to be a legit level that he was making around the same time and grinding on stream, but ahoyo got hand injuries grinding it and used TAS to beat that level too so he was incentivized to keep *that* a secret
@@Hakasedess i dont know what makes it clear tbh. He used it twice without letting anyone know. His story would be very smart and convinient if he was actually a cheater at heart, which is totally possible. My gues is, someone who truely cares about a game, would not let cheating go unrevealed twice
and think about the cover story..
AFTER he gets caught, then he would reveal. this really sounds bad, like he had a excuse ready for when he gets caught. and he now is still running with that.
it really sounds bad brother
@@Edwo1 It's definitely possible, I'm just saying I could see it happening, unlike most similar instances.
It's still cheating and stinky, but I can't entirely settle on disbelieving his story either.
I think it is still very impressive that a level was so hard to beat that it requires TAS inputs to make it happen, and then someone actually managed to beat it legitimately.
That by itself is a huge achievement in my opinion.
Honestly, it´s a missed opportunity for this video not to be sponsored by Manscaped when the level in question is called "Trimming the herbs"
Godlike comment
I can easily see myself in Ahoyo's situation. Made a cool project, TAS'd a run before anyone else was able to, it didn't get any attention and I simply forgot about it. Huge congrats to Team 0% however!
So you see yourself developing/using a TAS?
I can imagine the “OH SHIT” when Ahoyo realized his tased level was the last uncomplicated level
I remember when poo was defending that level and mentioned Karl on the video. I whispered to myself "And Karl took that personally" lol
My favorite part about the 0% project is that, if you don’t count Trimming the Herbs, the final level was the one called The Last Dance
Here’s to Team 0%, and I’m looking forward to seeing how Mario Maker 2 goes
I think beating the level that was actually never beaten by the creator and was "unbeatable" is a massive achievement no matter what. I understand what you are saying by "ruined the moment" but the fact that they still beat it live on stream is still amazing.
"Fun fact": Ahoyo's building competition Pogchamps Extended had only one rule, that the submitted levels must be 10 seconds or shorter. As you can see TTH is about 12 seconds long, making it the only level that got disqualified in that year, which is really ironic. I believe Ahoyo said at some point that he purposely made the level too long for the competition to attract attention, so people would figure out that it is cheated- it just backfired and everyone thought he couldn't be bothered to follow his own rules lol
IIRC Ahoyo made sure his level would get disqualified because he didn't want to win his own competition, the point was the attention would be directed at other creators. Which was a super awesome thing for him to do, although it also meant people didn't pay as much attention to TTH and led to him not revealing the TAS.
Hard to be mad at him, the fact he hacked a controller with his own technical know-how, it’s a high effort troll and made for a more interesting story!
you don't gotta put him on blast about what the team zero community "deserves" at the end man, it's like you said earlier that he made something cool and nobody noticed until it became a problem and suddenly he's an evil mastermind who set this in motion seven years ago
You don't cheat uploading two of the hardest levels in mario maker history, pretend like it was legit for 7 years, and then get to say you are innocent.
@@DamienSMM I haven't seen anything where he was claiming to be innocent though. Everything I've heard says that he was trying to let people know that he had planned a reveal of the TAS tools long ago and it didn't pan out. Then, he realized that his TAS only level could ruin everything that Team Zero 0% was going for, so he wanted to let them know that if they didn't clear it it wasn't a failure of their mission because the level was thought to be humanly impossible. He was trying to apologize for ruining their moment.
@@DamienSMM blown away by how so many people are missing this.
@@CowCommando He ruined the moment by staying silent until the very end, he's just a pretentious asshole looking for attention. So he's gonna get all the negative attention he deserves.
@@CowCommando you forget he also TAS-uploaded uploaded bombs5, a level which was famous and celebrated in the community as one of the hardest achievements in all of Mario maker. He was praised for his skill and dedication. And it turns out he was lying and pretending to be legit. Him confessing to being a cheater doesn’t justify him being a cheater, and I’m sick of all the comments defending him.
I think there's nothing more fitting than that the final level of SMM was a TAS level that was actually beaten by human hands. Just goes to show the skill that had built over the past few years that people have become good enough at the game to achieve tasks thought only possible by computers.
I agree. Its a shame a bunch of people fantasized about another ending but oh well, Team 0% still got their victory
I think calling Ahoyo a cheater is a bit harsh and overdramatic, he used a tas to upload a level to mario maker, which while probably against some tos i don't find to be an issue unless it was for some sort of mario maker competition. Team 0% trying to beat every mario maker level 7 years later and his remaining the last uncleared feels more like an unfortunate event.
The fact that he built a device to do a TAS on the Wii U is actually really cool, sucks that it went this way, but props to him for coming clean.
Am I crazy? Should this not be even more hype that they actually beat an illegitimate level?
Honestly the way in which this guy cheated makes it really interesting and almost admirable. He didn't just download some tools, he had to go out of his way to make them himself.
Exactly, he didn't just download cheating tools, he straight up designed and engineered PHYSICAL cheating TOOLS, straight into his gamepad. Absolutely wild stuff
Wow so cool of the cheater to being the first to cheat... /s
@@lucasLSD We can be impressed by the technical achievement of the tool even if the tool wasn't used for the best purposes.
@@lucasLSDtone indicator way to go invalidate your point 😂
@@lucasLSD TAS isn't cheating. Creating a TAS-only level in SMM isn't cheating. Ahoyo didn't cheat.
To be fair to Grand Poo Bear, I don't think he was trying to say that Ahoyo wouldn't cheat because of his skill level. I think he was trying to say Ahoyo was good enough to beat it. Though they seem similar, saying someone is good enough to beat something is not equivalent to saying they won't cheat because of their skill.
One more thing, "players not being good enough in 2017" is far from being proof of illegitamacy. It's completely possible for an individual's skill level to be years beyond that of their peers (Might I remind you of Ohon with Ninja Gaiden, whose skill was a solid decade beyond everyone else). *might be closer to 7 years*
While it did turn out that Ahoyo cheated, none of the evidence against him had as much legitimacy as people thought.
Lastly, we have no reason to believe that Ahoyo was being malevolent. Let's be honest, if Ahoyo had confessed earlier, people might have written off the level. Possibly no one would have bothered to beat it.
Acting like Ahoyo is some big bad villain is pretty silly because honestly, the way things turned out is way more hype than if he confessed earlier and possibly no one beating Trimming the Herbs. By no means did Team 0%'s goal and with a fizzle. The moment wasn't ruined at all. If anything, it's way more epic than it would've been.
That being said, he still should have confessed earlier in order to keep the peace.
i think you could have pointed out that cheating level verification was not only pretty normal but actually often considered a good thing. not many players are skilled enough to be both excellent level designers and players, so before the days where you could cheat clears designers would have to share their accounts with top players to get their levels verified which is obviously a big risk. cheating level verification allows designers to upload their levels much more safely.
I agree with all the top comments in saying that I think you buried the lede. You should be celebrating the drama of someone beating an unbeatable level. That is amazing and inspiring. To give the cheater the last word, when he confessed when there was still time, and when the payoff was so beautiful is to completely undermine the achievement of the person who beat the level.
His name is Sanyx.
I wouldn't go as far as calling the creator a cheater for this.
They did it as part of a plan to showcase that TAS was possible in Mario Maker ( as Gran POOBear said it himself, it was thought that tools for that weren't yet created, until less than two months ago )
Ultimately a noble, or at least neutral, goal, and an original way to announce it.
The problem is that it didn't get the attention for the thing to work.
They should've came clear when the plan failed, of course, but this way is still better than not doing it at all, I do not join you on the fact that it would be better if they waited until after the level was cleared or the servers shut down.
Beating a level thinking it was legitimately validated and then learning it was TAS'd is way less of an achievement than beating it knowing it was TAS'd and made to be impossible or almost to complete by a human player. Because in one case, you don't have the assurance of "someone else already did it" to keep you going.
I would go as far as to say that you completely missed the mark, on this one.
For once, I honsetly don't fully agree with Karl. I just don't see this guy as this evil cheater boogeyman, just seems like a guy that didn't expect his cheated level to reach this kind of situation, and felt like he would rob team 0% and everyone from a victory. Maybe I'm not seeing the whole story, but I haven't heard much else about this situation, so that's how I've interpreted it. Still sick as hell that team 0% managed to beat it, that's honestly even more impressive now.
As did you.
Yeah, the fact that he got the angle on this so wrong makes me doubt other videos that I don’t know anything about.
@@jakebobby3600 he got the angle right, the creator is an asshole trying to steal the spotlight. In his "reveal apology" message he says "You guys already won! Congratulations!" as if he were part of the team 0% efforts and got to decide on that. Such a prick.
@@jakebobby3600 Time for a Billy Mitchell redemption arc
I hope ppl don't / didn't confront GrandPooBear too harshly - this isn't a malicious "I told you so" moment for the community or Karl in particular, but just another great case and reminder to not let valid criticism and doubt about legit runs been swept under the rug with the main excuse being "X person is a trusted person within the community". As he pointed out, we don't need to aimlessly accuse great runners because their feats cannot be recreated by others. However, this doesnt mean that we shouldnt follow up on doubts and start investigations - as every legit runner wouldnt see this as an insult but a neccessary mean to keep the community clean, like doping tests in professional sports for example. It doesnt have to be an insult to be investigated, if the communication is rational, respectfull and the investigation at least somehow warranted.
The main takeaway here is that pride, blind trust and well meant politeness are not healthy for the speedrunning community, and everyone participating strives for a fair and great competition, so we need to be ok with checking each other from time to time for it to remain the great thing that we built over the last decades
This video didn't showcase the amazing accomplishment of Trimming the Herbs being completely legitimately enough.
I honestly feel like the creator may have forgotten about the level
Especially considering they left the community for years.
I don't know how I feel about this video.
It feels less like a "cheater exposed" video and more of a slanted, "I told you so." video. The only thing I really gathered from this would be to not really trust anyone and mistakes or things done with a purpose don't matter if the community ends up getting the wrong idea.
Yeah, it really feels like the video missed the mark... The other video I saw on this focused on highlighting just how amazing completing the final levels were, and how the final level being a TAS only made it feel even more amazing when it was cleared, since team zeros goal of leaving no level unbeaten ended with a level that literally no person had beaten before.
This video felt very pointed... At least to me it felt like he was somewhat mocking the streamer who believed in a member of the community with a "They ended up cheating this, your wrong" and he focused so much on how this ruined team 0's celebration and how the moment was soured. He also made the guy out to sound like a much worse person than he seemed to be. According to the other video I saw he made it for a contest, nobody paid attention so it got swept under the rug, left the community for a long time and after hearing about team zero confessed. At least to my understanding it wasn't malicious, but karl made him out to sound like a horrible person... Idk, I usually like this videos but this just felt off.
It's shame that this ends up dragging other people in too, because Grand POObear is a great player too and he went to bat for Ahoyo because he was a good player too, and because Ahoyo had a moment of weakness (likely more than just one from the looks of it) it ends up making anyone that backed him up look foolish too. That's not a great feeling.
What really gets me about this is that if he had been honest he would have been celebrated for inventing a TAS for that console before anyone else but instead he left a blemish on this amazing achievement. Big ups to Sanyx for actually completing this "impossible" level.
Personally, I don't think Ahoyo is a bad guy in this. It would've been a sour note to end on if the community just gave up entirely after the confession, but they kept going against all odds and somehow manage to come out victorious just in the nick of time. I think that's truly incredible and the fact that it was uploaded via TAS only makes the achievement all the more special, a fitting final boss to the saga
"Ahoyo isn't the bad guy":
TASes two levels, lies about it, lets people believe he is legit, people spend hundred of hours onto these levels, admits it's fake but tries to spin it as "not his intention".
@@DamienSMM👆👆👆
The level was essentially supposed to be an announcement that he created a tas input tool, He was going to reveal it to the community when it got enough attention but everyone including him forgot about it, calling him a cheater is outright wrong.
Honest bombs5 was hardly a tas and i think using a tas to finish the little bit of the level you havent cleared because you got a severe injury is very in the grey area of morality@@DamienSMM
@@tady5720 “calling him a cheater is outright wrong”
Ahoyo used TAS tools to upload two extremely difficult levels to the servers and then lied about it. This is absolutely considered cheating in the smm community, even disregarding everything else.
At least he came out and admitted it, and team zero was like, “We don’t care, we are completing it, and FU.”
And most people were thinking it was real because they thought that there was not a good enough tools back then.
@@jpryan90Yeah, it's the cherry on top of a magnificent cake, not the rotten egg. Beating a TAS run of a troll level is monumental and should be celebrated.
Most were like, "we do care, we give up." Only a few kept trying, more out of spite than anything. In their tweets saying they would keep trying, they described an attitude that was basically conscious sunken cost fallacy.
It is indeed a great achievement that should be celebrated; Karl is simply describing the fact that it wasn't. At least, not to the degree it should've been. And while it was exciting to learn about, there was still sadness and disappointment mixed in.
Team 0% was done with it, but Sanyx was capable of beating it so he kept trying and beat it at the end.
Karl is right. They wee stripped of the chance to have a final celebration when the last level cleared.
Ahoyo is scum.
@@innertuber4049 Out of spite? Sanyx kept going for it literally because he could beat it and it would be a great achievement for himself, just like other really hard levels he has beaten. Others kept going for similar reasons too (there was a big bounty of money on it). How is that out of spite?
I think it's debatable whether using TAS to complete a level for uploading is "cheating" or not. I would consider it to be far different than the actual speedrunning cheaters who do things like splicing runs, or faking live play with non-matching hand camera.
honestly, that device he built is quite cool. I can see why GrandPooBear didnt think it was cheated. (1) it was very extremely difficult but looked somewhat possible, and (2) the dude built his own tech to beat it; thats definitely a one-off robot that nobody was aware of.
Also, I think there's pride in beating an impossible level. I don't think any less of their achievement knowing it was a cheated level. A bit like how that impossible electronic bassline became famous because deadmau5 (I think) thought it was impossible.
MarioMaker didnt have the rigour of speedruns in it in 2017, so it wasn't really a problem if he had done so. Im curious how it would have turned out if he had been transparent about his device earlier. I'd be interested in a TAS-only hunt as well, where people hunt down and prove feasible as many levels as they can.
One of the biggest level types in Mario Maker is "troll levels" and the fact that the community got trolled at the end is poetic.
Yeah, not your best take, Karl. Sure, the dude shouldn't have uploaded a TAS, but it most certainly didn't end on a whimper. The fact that someone managed to beat it made the ending even more impressive.
Yes and no... not gonna take away from clearing TTH the achievement was great. Clearing a TAS only run is not something anyone can do.
But sadly hype had pretty much died because a huge chunk of the attention of everyone had fizzled since the "official" stage The Last Dance had come and gone already because it had passed and there was no celebration and with TTH not a "legit" stage a lot of folks had turned off by then.
if it was revealed before it was the last level left, sure, but they revealed it after it was the last level left. it robbed the moment for the person who truly beat the last level, killed the hype and momentum for what should have been the finale. whilst beating the TAS level was definitely a huge mechanical achievement a lot of the hype was killed off once it was revealed that only an illegitimate level remained and that 0% was "over". i think the time has passed to heavily criticise this guy, at least i personally don't hold it against him. but the reality is that he singlehandedly killed a huge moment in gaming.
@@RocKM001 Well said.
Keep preaching Karl about how just because someone is skilled doesn’t mean they will never cheat. This goes beyond the speed running community. In business, politics, and religion, people get away with horrible crimes because they abuse the trust they have built up. Society can’t function without honesty, but honest people don’t mind others covering bases properly and doing things the right way. These speedrunning exposés are cautionary tales for the world at large and I think is practically a public service. Keep up your work Karl!
I feel like given the fact the level was STILL beaten before the deadline, Ahoyo is made out to be a bigger villain than he is, or certainly bigger than he ever intended to be, for the sake of this video. This kinda makes Jobst the villain, doesn't it?
Team 0% is also trying to clear every level in Mario Maker 2. Every 2019 level has been cleared and there are about 45000 left from 2020.
Idk how I feel about the ending of this video. I think it’s more impressive that this cheated level was in fact beatin legit against all odds. I think Karl playing it off like the challenge was ruined all because of this sucky situation is disingenuous and an over exaggeration.
Yeah Karl took an L with this vid
Team 0% decided to beat a TRULY unbeaten level, in addition to all the other ones. I think that’s worth celebrating
idk how I feel about this... The creator who made the level originally had imo a really awesome plan. TAS are amazing for games like this, and to have developed the first TAS setup is a great achievement. It sucks that it didn't get noticed right away, but I don't blame him for not confessing when the level he built to promote it failed to gain traction. It also sucks for the timing of when the cheat was revealed at the end, but same thing - this is about PR. He could have made a better confession, or perhaps timed it better* but its not like he tried to take a WR for it right?
Timing could have been better. He could have confessed much earlier, but this wouldn't build anything for him and his TAS. He had no reason to confess at that point when it would have become just another forgettable moment. He could have confessed later, when the servers were shut down or when the level was actually defeated, but really hindsight is 20/20. The guy pulled the trigger at a not-so-perfect moment, but its not a great deception. The guy might not have even realized his level was the last on the block until it was there, and he thought about his options and made his post.
Wait, this is the one time I don't see why it taints the achievement. The creator cheated to put up the level, but it was beaten legitimately, which is even more incredible an accomplishment.
Yeah, when I heard about the scandal originally, I thought it was a legitimate level being cleared by a cheater. THAT would have been a real travesty, especially if the time ran out before the cheating was revealed.
@@gobs379There were actually quite a few legitimate levels with hacked first clears. Team 0% made sure to find some way to clear them legitimately.