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Paint Depth Gauge - Must have or nice to have ?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ม.ค. 2018
- Paint Depth Gauge - Must have or nice to have ?
DT-156 and other depth gauges:
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I have the Eray gm998 paint thickness gauge. It measures both Aluminum and painted steel surfaces. Extremely accurate and a reasonable price. Great video john.
I'd just add a little info from my experience as a past supplier of white metal (That's bare steel in the jargon) panels to the motor industry. The first protective layer applied is generally a phosphate layer (About 10 microns) then the e-coat (anything from 15 to 40 microns. Then comes one coat of primer, one coat of base-coat and one coat of clear. As said in the video, plastic parts don't have the e-coat (It's not possible to pass am electric current through plastic) and of course no phosphating either. Paints on plastic are generally 2K whilst metal is 1K due to the different curing temperatures that the substrate can withstand. It does follow therefore that the overall paint (Coatings) thickness will usually be different between steel and plastic parts.
I agree with the statement:when you can afford one (and want to spend the money to it) it's great to have one...It doesn't guarantee not going through the clearcoat but it can warn you to take extra caution on certain panels or even give a hint not touching them.
Great intro music. I suspect that is you. BTW, do NOT shorten the length of your videos. What makes this channel great is the in-depth coverage and amount of quality information you provide.
Ryan Davies agreed
Jerry Reed....excellent musician as well as actor....
Totally agree!
I have the same PDG, I use it to check paint on a car I am contemplating buying. It can pay for itself ten fold when you can knock something off of the sale price on a car because you have found a repainted panel. It's a no brainer must have for me and also gives you a slight advantage when detailing (which was the main reason I bought it) as shown in the videos.
First time posting as usually watch your vids on my TV, love the channel, thanks for taking the time to make them.
With more and more cars being machine polished, it's a good thing to know how much clear is left before you set about removing more of it, so it's a must have for me.
Jon, good video mate. I do cars for mates, and having a PDG is a must when working on, somebody else's pride & joy.
I purchased the Clean Your Car model which is manual calibration and does both Ferrous & Non-Ferrous.
I generally work on anything over 100 microns is healthy, and can therefore be put under a bit more pressure with the number of sets I do, unless it's a Jap car and under that, then it's tread carefully time.
I think my gauge was around the £219 Mark.
which gauge you use ?
Thank you so much for this very informative video! I've been detailing as a hobby for decades now and once buffed the base coat off of my cousin's Riviera blue 993 C4 front fender chasing a well etched in bird dropping. I fell into that perfectionism trap on a car that didn't even have a clear coat to begin with! Luckily I was able to find an artisan painter to refinish the fender almost perfectly. Now I have my own Porsche (Cayman T) that sat out on the lot for a few months and came with it's own bird dropping defects and superficial scratches for the dealer. I have already done one correction and wasn't willing to remove all of the defects for fear of going to far. I've decided that I will purchase a PTG (probably the DT-156) before I do any more correcting. Your insight and opinion here has been extremely helpful and is appreciated greatly!
Hi John, my general rule, is if it’s Japanese, German etc first off makes a difference, a la hard or soft... then there’s the age of the paint and lastly condition. I would say, as you already know, that I would always go the least aggressive option first. Personally I correct my paint once a year but use a finishing polish like a Menzerna 3800 and generally a yellow or green RUPES pad on German top coat. However, I do believe that a paint depth gauge is a great thing to have if you’re doing many cars and correcting paint often. If you can buy one, I’d say go for it. A £80 to £150 investment now is better than a £300 + respray to correct a screw up !
great info max thanks mate
Very informative vlog (yet again Sir). "Chasing perfection" have you been watching Jim White (White Details). As a week - end washing warrior here's another bit of kit I'm going to need, you just have to plant those seeds, now where's me credit card.
Fantastic video, with information well presented, not making statement of facts in all cases where you acknowledge there are different opinions. Certainly helps provide food for thought and helps steer me in the right direction. 30 minutes of my time well spent while having my breakfast! :)
I have thought about buying one. But, I figure that just because it will tell you the total thickness (primer, base,clear), it does not reveal the thickness of only the clear coat. Like your example of 130 microns, there is no way to tell what percentage is actually clear. That is what keeps me from buying one. Even with a paint depth gauge, the thickness of the clear coat is still a guess. Great video as always!
true steve, but it allows you to infer or perhaps get a gauge of whats low on any particular place if you can establish what the level is on areas not polished.. does also allow you to get more of an idea how much your going through.. the biggest enemy as always has to be time.
This man is both knowledgeable and helpful for folks like me buying a used vehicle. This is the man I would use to repaint my cars!
He does not paint.spray cars
A good rule of thumb is to measure the door jambs first as these areas contain the thickest pain (when sprayed during the manufacturing process).
You can then measure the rest of the car, with this as a reference.
I agree that paint depth gauges are really must have tools. I use primarily my paint depth gauge when i go to look for used car. Meter does not lie. Sellers do. You can then be sure is it original paintwork or not. And why some parts are repainted?
My cars normal thickness has been between 110-130microns. (Renault, BMW). Renault do have 1 panel repainted, and it is approx 280 microns. Easy to spot.
I also use gauge when polishing, when i feel i want to check how film thickness before correction.
Great video John and thanks for the info, I'm just starting this on other peoples cars so I'm feeling I need to get a gauge just to be extra safe. Il look forward to the review of the gauge,
Cheers
Loving the videos. Perhaps you could do a video on how to calibrate the PDG that's easy to follow unlike the instructions lol. Keep up the good work
I was lucky enough to buy a DeFelsko PosiTest DFT combo from a guy my friend knows who was giving up on detailing and I got it at a fraction of the full price. I'm still undecided as to the actual benefits of having it because 9 times out of 10 you're still going to do some form of correction and using the axim Less aggressive first you're probably going to be safe. My car has very thin paint system on it. It's a 65 plate peugeot (which only had just under 9k on the clock when I bought it) and the readings are somewhere between 70 to 90 across the car. I think the important thing is to try and work out your average clear coat thickness and the only way to do that is take an average of arear's that don't have much clear coat if any and subtract from your readings. It's still a very 'fluffy' way of doing things
thanks Jim, so you try and establish top level readings so you are perhaps aware of areas that might be low on clear. 70-90 is low isnt it.
I have a cheaper one and I do paint correction for a living. I don't use it on every vehicle but it's nice to have on a job where there has been body work or the vehicle looks like it's been worked over.
we are manufacturer of this product .Any one need ,I can sell to him in better price .
@@rayyiu4153 what price u sell it?
I did think about getting one, but as I dont do correction work and only do enhancements, mainly using a finishing polish and pad just to bring the gloss and clarity back, I feel its only necessary if you are doing a 2 or 3 stage correction, but another good informative video.
I am doing work on classic cars, like mustangs, corvettes, impalas, mg´s, beetles, opel´s. Basically everything classic.
I am not taking any chances so I am using a depth gauge and a infrared thermometer so I can have control of how much of the paint I am removing and the heat I am producing.
Some of these cars dont even have clear, only paint so I have to blow out the pads very often.
People have been working 500-2000 hours on these cars so ruining the paint is not going to happen.
I would like to have one of those where you can see how much each layer is, but that thing is just too expensive for me.
thanks buddy. single stage paint, I hate polishing it. kind of responds nicely to be polished but can be so sticky and like you say controlling the residue on the pad is so important.
Brilliant video! A big question is discovering how thick the clear coat actually is. The DTM 156 looks great for the money. I'm just about to buy a PTG so I'll await your review on it. Many thanks for taking the time to do the video. :-)
I've been considering such a device for a little while now, and I liked the review, comprehensive as always, but I liked your last line, "Better to have one than not have one." Which is what I was thinking. You gave me some advice on Dual Action Polishers, and maybe the money I saved there can go on one of these.....I liked the intro music as well, and Bathe needs to watch someone else's quickies if he doesn't like your Detailed advice. You do call yourself Forensic Detailing Channel for a reason. Keep up the Good Work John, or is it Jon? There's both in remarks, so let us know! ;-)
Thank you so much! Very helpful information. 🤘🏻
Great insight. That's why I like the coatings so much and after researching them I chose Crystal Serum Light topped with EXO. CSL was projected to last 3 to 5 years and was the same money as other coatings like C Quartz. They say an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. That's why I take a lot of care in the wash process and top the paint with C2v3 a lot to act as a sacrificial lamb layer to avoid polishing as long as possible. I see products like Essence and Essence Plus are interesting where they fill in imperfections and give great durability and in the case of Essence, you can coat on top of it potentially giving you the illusion of perfection with great longevity without removing any clear coat. Was wondering if you tried those products yet and what you thought? Vinyl and the Pro Version of the coatings are too expensive and not fool proof either. Love your videos.
So Jon, basically the conclusion was after 29mins, its a “Bag of worms”.
(Well I found it funny)
Must have.
The more informed you are on the paintwork condition, the more accurate your choice of products to utilise and correction level will be. People should be buying one before purchasing a machine polisher, as that one mistake will cost more than a suitable device. It's like driving a car without a license, sure you can drive the car but eventually you'll get caught out.
thanks sam
Would like to see a video of how much clear coat compounding and polishing actually removes apex detail did it doesn’t remove much 2 stage removed around 0.1 miles so did a enhancement
I almost finished the video (played at x2) and still didn't show the device he's talking about 🤔
Excellent vid Jon. Very informative. Look forward to your review on the PTG as I have the same one and would like to know your thoughts on it.
Forgive me if you mentioned it in this video but, does this particular gauge measure on plastic bumpers?
Thanks!
Hi, was looking at depth gauges, I see some seem to measure in mm not microns. What is the difference. Do they need to read in microns.
You want microns some read in Mils Mils and mm are not the same
Hi John. I dont know if you can answer my question but be very happy if you will! I wanna ask about the CEM DT-156. Does it measure a coating on an aluminum panel? Thanks and keep it up with your reviews... Surely one of the best auto detailing channels
ferrous only I believe mate. but thats ust off the top of my head..
Are you doing a review on this PTG? 👍🏼😊👍🏼
Very informative man thanks.
My only gripe with this channel Jon, is when you say you will link a video in the description, or and update on a product and then do not. That aside, keep up the great work
its just time buddy, the communications overhead from doing you tube is huge, I spend 2-3 hours every days answering comments and questions accross 600-700 videos over multiple channels and other platforms. constantly working on future tests, and editing new videos, filming or travelling. Im not sure what I said I would do in this video. I think I did an upgrade on it though when Ive done other survey videos.. its still working fine for me its been solid.
Very informative as ever!
So this thing will read my plastic bumber in the non ferrous setting?
Whose some of your favorite guitarist? My last concert was Al Dimeola. He was fantastic. I would have liked to have seen Ritchie Blackmore and the Rainbow concert he did in your neck of the world last year.
loads :) guys like rory gallagher, rev gary davis, missisippi john hurt, jerry reed.. more recently.. I thought john frusciante was very cool.. lots of the usual greats as well zappa, hendrix.. :)
My wife and I are going to see Dweezil Zappa in May. Keep doing the openings with your playing. It was cool.
I totally get what you’re saying about chasing perfection. Isn’t that what detailing is though? 😜 I wish it were easier to know when to give in and leave it alone. Unfortunately once I notice something I cannot unsee it.
I had to have some body work done on my GTI due to a deer. They repaired the dents in my door and replaced the front fender. When they painted it they blended into the rear quarter and hood. This was done a year and a half ago. The dents in the door seem to have ever so slightly returned. Does the metal have a memory like that? The repainted bits have more noticeable orange peel in places. I polished the car in October before sealing it with jetseal for the winter. I only used a jeweling polish though because the paintwork is in really good shape. I have zero marring or swirls, but lately some of the areas that they painted look like they are losing gloss. Any advice that you could give would be very much appreciated. I wish that I could post pictures for you.
it could be how they repaired them. not sure if they pulled them at all or filled. but its most likely theres some amount of filler there. could be that Christopher?
I was told that there would be no filler and that they would just be straightening it. The reflections now just look slightly rippled.
Any advice on the orange peel and loss of gloss? Should I try a compound on those areas? It’s quite frustrating because you can tell in the right light that I have absolutely no scratches. The reflection of the lights is super sharp. It is just simply not as glossy anymore.
Orange peel can be removed only by wetsanding and this is where this video becomes useful due to PTG informations. And loss of gloss is due to low quality lacquer or badly prep before painting.
Have you seen the cm8801fn at all. Was a thread on autogeek forum about it. Wondering how they compare to one another
not seen casey sorry.
Have you ever use GTS8102 ?Get the accurate reading faster .
where did you get your meter from? did the calibrations instructions come in English? any fakes about?
I'm East bound and down .. The Snowman ! Jerry Read
great channel bro
can u please hekp me to choose thickness gauge paint?
ther is 8806FN or CEM DT-156 OR elcometer HighLine Meter Paint Thickness Gauge - 2nd Generation?
help me please
thanks
hey tom Im no expert... but try and find out where the device is being made. if you want quality you have to pay more. If you want something budget that works, the DT156 is decent enough. the main distributors wont stock complete garbage. For me Its less about the tolerance and accuracy and it was more about price point. these tools really give you an indicator of potential problems or low levels. but they are no guerentee in fact to survey the car fully to really identify all the areas takes a long time. also look for ones that can work perhaps on non ferrous surfaces.
@@ForensicDetailing first thanks for your answer your channel help me a lot
Second china make people confused there is a lot company from usa japan germany that made in china so its problem
The cem is india (for me is same as chine horibble) so you thing they ok?
the only feedback I can give you on the CEM DT is make sure you take the batteries out when not using and buy better batteries that come with it. they can leak and ruin the machine. other than that the only quality issue is sometimes when you push the probe down to take a reading it doesnt always fire. say about 1 in 20. but apart from that its done what I wanted it too. and its working a year later after purchase..
@@ForensicDetailing thank u very much
Your channel is the first in my list
Great information super video.
Any updates on recommended paint gauges? Been a couple years and dont know if there is anything specific you recommend now? Are you still using the one referenced here?
yes m8 I still use this
Is it true that you can subtract the measurement from the door jams to ascertain the amount of clear coat?
any place that wont have been polished will give you a true indiciation of the OEM level for that particular area. So thats gonna be handy yes.
On all the cars I measure the door jams are always 20-30 microns less than the body paint . I read that if you subtract you get a rough idea of the clear coat measurement. I haven’t been able to confirm wether this is true or not ? I’m hoping someone on the forum could verify this info ? Re
I believe this is true but as ever its an approximate. It's a shame we can't get a gauge that measures just clear coat really but that would exhaust, pardon the pun, the bank balance! :-)
I think it is yes as very little coat is applied to those areas.
Jerry Reed music hell yeah
Jon do u get your base measurements from inside the door jams ? Cheers
Did you do a review on the PDG?
Pdg?
Are the $50-60 Paint depth gauges as accurate as the $100 ones? Any recommendations for low entry level paint depth gauges?
I dont know but I would say probably not. but it doesnt need to be mega accurate perhaps... its only ever giving you a rough idea anyway.
Does anyone know where you can buy this in the UK not eBay
Have you gotten the PC software to work? seems like nothing much really.
Would the measurements be false high if a panel is coated/sealed or waxed? Just got a tesla with pretty damn high measurments - 160-280 um
hey there. most coatings will add sub 1 micron to the paint. some multi layer coatings could ad a couple of microns. waxes and sealants are submicron.
@@ForensicDetailing So there is a good chance then, that I just got lucky with my tesal's paintwork, and I have a lot of paint to work with
It's not important until you go through or catch a thin edge.
Does the one you have mesure aluminium
Hi! Im having a problem with my paint thickness gauge, it cannot read paint thickness on Fe substrate but it works on nFe substrate. Im hoping you can help.
mate from the information you given me you have not even given me the model of the unit. Really buddy you need to speak to the manufacturer of the unit. Here is a guess only. Some units are capable of reading FE and non FE substrates but must be SET or configured one way or the other. Sounds to me you have your set to non ferrous reading mode. try and go through the options?
@@ForensicDetailing my gauge has a feature of automatic detection of fe/nfe substrates. There is no manual selection of fe/nfe in the option. Im having second thoughts if the gauge or its probe is the problem. I've already email the manufacturer regarding my concern and still waiting for their reply.
If a car has been though a car wash every day for 4-5 years would that have diminished the amount of clear coat on that car? I'm asking because I have a car that's been used as a Airport limousine and has never been polished. It has been taken through a car wash everyday of it's life since 2013. It's in need of some love and attention but I'm concerned about how aggressive to go at it. Would a paint gauge help??? What do you recommend?
the simple answer is yes. because every time your car is scratched you loose some clearcoat.
But the real life answer is no you dont really lower the level of the clearcoat like water going down the plughole of a bath type thing. So a 4-5 year old car should be a good time for a machine polish.. in fact ideal really. could argue you should not be doing heavy correction on new cars.. So yer go for it garry.
Paint gauge is important as we covered in this video. but if you know the history of the car and its never been machined you could probably do a good couple of compounding sets on it with a DA and a heavy abrasive and the risks are very low.
I'm thinking S3 Gold and then either S20 or Sonax pefect finish. Still debating on whether to go all foam pads or use microfiber for the S3 correction?
If your gonna 2stage and cut with S3 I would follow up with S40 Garry. S20 or PF you could use for more correction on softer paints, or generally single stage with these.
I just received my DT-156, I thought if it's good enough for you it's good enough for me. First things first, I'm so glad I bought it. I took measurements from 2 similar cars and the the readings are very consistent. The lowest reading I got was 79 um on the project car and as high as 152 um on the same car so I now know where to tread very lightly. Can't Thank you enough for these informative video's, you're a huge help. Cheers!
Where do you purchase the car cut outs.
you can just find them online keith google like car inspection template or something like that mate there are loads out there.
Hi John.haven’t watched vid yet but I’m here so while it’s on my mind I need your advice. Caught my caravelle on some shrubbery (near side from electric sliding door to rear and have some minor scratches - this is long wheel base model so pretty long scratches). They haven’t broke through paint to undercoat and can be disguised somewhat using autoglym super resin but I can still see them and after a wash needs to be done again. I don’t have a DA polisher (and can’t justify the outlay due to personal reasons), so was thinking is there a way using hands. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.now back to video.
short answer it no phil.. will take you 30 mins of rubbing to get through half a micron of clear by hand.. (guessing) but deep scratches are usually all the way through or many many microns if you are lucky.
Forensic Detailing Channel double damn! well I ain’t gonna do that. I’ll see if someone local can take em out . All the best and keep them coming.
Not disagreeing with Jon but you could remove the scratches yourself, if you wet flat with 2500, 3000 wet and dry they will come out( or the surrounding paint will lower to make it appear they're not there) and hand rub with compound then polish, but it would take a lot of time and elbow grease so in real terms it would be beneficial to get a professional do the job. Hope this helps.
steven bewick I agree with what you say but crickey that scares the bloomin life out of me. I think I’ve come up and cost effective. Go to Costco buy a polisher buff em out with some decent polishing compound ( I’ll revisit johns vid for this) then take it back for a refund. A bit mercenary I know but hey it’s one of boobs of paying a membership fee. Thanks for taking the time out to reply with a solution though. Much appreciated.
Phil if it's not too expensive it might be worth keeping the polisher once you get the hang of using it, but keep proof of purchase just in case.
Oh another thing I forgot to ask.what is the title music John?
I think its a jam version of an old jerry reed song. one of the most underated guitar players ever.
Forensic Detailing Channel thanks John. Looking in Apple Music now.
Forensic Detailing Channel yes it is. Song called guitar man but original version lacks a bit of the oomph from your intro. Thanks for the tip.
Forensic Detailing Channel Jerry Reed "Blue Finger" is a favorite! Thanks for all the great detailing info, learned a lot man.
I found one for £25 accurate within 10 microns
wanna share which one?
Omair Kiani I found out that if there accurate to 10 microns there no good Iv got the same one forensic has
Can I give positive criticism buddy. I like your videos but in this fast moving day and age it’s hard to watch a 30min video. I think you would do well trying to make you vids 10mins long. 5 minutes reviewing the item, 5 minutes giving your thoughts. Then I’d be able to watch all your content rather than skipping through and potentially missing some useful information. Keep it up 👍🏽
I know you are right and its the thing peeps ask me to do a lot.. thing is theres a million and one channesl that will hit you with the high speed approach because they are optimising the content and wanting to grow faster etc.. I just cant roll that way.. I generally dont script it. I fire up the camera and just talk (with a couple of bullet points).. puts a lot of peeps off I know. Its a bit lazy sometimes to do it.
that being said Im in the middle of a video now. And I think it will be more like what you want. wait for the next video and tell me if you prefer it that way. although its literally taken like many many many hours of editing to produce it like this. insane the amount of work it is.
and thanks for the feedback bathe. I do try and listen and adapt. some vids I prep more some are really informal with no prep :(
I fully respect this view but of course it should be taken in context. It's unlikely that anyone will post a comment stating that they thought the content was just the right length. I actually enjoy the informal, meandering style & I'm sure that I'm not alone in having a chuckle as you go off on the occasional tangent. I believe that the style suits your objective of the content being a conversation rather than a tutorial. Keep up the good work.
forensic is supposed to be an in depth scientific approach!i appreciate the longer approach because you wont learn very much from a 5min soundbite!if you think you can then i dont hold out much hope for the state of your car!
please dont change a thing.i appreciate your in depth approach and find it extremely helpful.the amount of detail that you go into is useful and you just cant cover that amount of detail in 5 mins.i know that you are mindful of the time but it is more important to get all the pertinent facts across!
To each its own. I love how he talks about every single detail and says what's in his mind. Not a lot of people have time to toake a video, script it, edit it in the best way possible then post on TH-cam.
I'm that person. I'm lazy when it comes to editing. If I were to edit all the videos and pics, then it will never get posted. I'm not just talking about youtube videos bc I don't really have any, but just in general. If I spend time making a video and sharing any thoughts or info, then viewers should be willing to spend time just watching and listening.
Wtf