Any guy who thinks choosing a SS or tube amp is going to make or break the deal is kidding himself. Let EVH or Jeff Beck plug into either of those rigs and I guarantee you they will make either one sound amazing. Spend your time practicing instead of worrying about gear. 90% of the sound will come from your brain and fingers. You either have it or you don't and the kind of amp you buy is not going to make a major difference. If you are not great, spending $1200 on a tube head is not going to make you into one of your guitar heroes. Talent and hard work may.
a $4000 dollar guitar in to a $100 amp will always sound like shit. a $200 guitar in to a $2000 dollar will still sound atleast good. so although it's true a amp isn't going to make you EVH but it is true a good amp is a good investment in any long term player.
I was using a John birch SG into an old H|HIC100S solid state head and Marshall 4 x 12. Phil Campbell out of Motorhead asked me how I got my sound. That to me states that there's nothing wrong with solid state amps.
"spending $1200 on a tube head is not going to make you into one of your guitar heroes. Talent and hard work may." Agree. And buying a $4000 Gibson Les Paul neither... Roger Waters: "It's like saying, Give a man a Les Paul guitar and he becomes Eric Clapton. And it's not true."
I would say more hard work than anything. Leon Hendrix talked about the countless hours Jimi spent practicing. He wasn't a "natural", he just busted his ass.
Well, different for some is going to pose a competition. I find the tube superior, and I’m not an old timer, I grew up on solid state, and a nice one at that.
I prefer Marshall solid states, only for low volume practices in a small room. But if the volume gets louder like jamming with a band, I prefer the tube type. Great demo and playing, Craig !
From my experience, the reason these amps sound closer to each other than usual is that the speaker is by far the most important aspect to the sound of any amp. I believe it makes between 70 - 90% of the amps sound depending on the amp. This makes sense if you think about it because the speaker is what turns the electrical energy back into audible sound. If you play clean, the speaker makes 90% of the difference. If more distorted valves will produce a bit better sound due to the even harmonics produced by the valves. In this case the speaker makes about 70% of the difference. Why do $1000 valve amps sound better than $250 solid state amps? It's because if you build an amp for $250 you are not going to put a $150 speaker in it. You will put a Chinese made speaker costing $20 in it. If you spend $800 - $1000 building an amp then the manufacturer can justify putting a $150 - $250 speaker in it. Simple !!!!!!. This is why valve amps generally sound better and louder than solid state, it is nearly nothing to do with the circuitry, it is all about the quality and efficiency of the speaker. From a volume perspective, this is proven by the formula for the volume of any amp ---> Volume in decibels = 10 times the log (base 10) of the number of watts + the speaker efficiency measured in decibels per watt per metre. So if the speaker is 5 - 8 db more efficient, it is going to sound way louder even if the amps are the same wattage. Note all wattages should be measured in RMS (root mean squared). Any measurement of wattage in peak power or any other term is a load of rubbish. RMS is the only generally accepted measurement for wattage (electrical power).
I’m not expecting a 250 amp to sound like a 1000 dollar amp. Now if I had a 1000 dollar solid state amp and a 1000 dollar solid state amp that would be a fair comparison. Also once you get over $700 and 40 watts most amps are loud enough for bands, and you can get a good tone out of them if you set it right.
The valve amp definitely has a more desirable tone (by most) and a nice full sound, but I have to say I was pleasantly surprised with the tone of the solid state. It was not far off the general tone of the valve, and I'd say it would hold it's own fairly well. Great comparison and good explanation :) Thanks!
Thanks for posting. The basic differences between valve and transistor are apparent: Valves are brighter and clearer, and transistors are darker and muddier.
Valves will always bring a smile to my face as compared to solid state which sounds thinner! As an owner of both types of Marshall's, please bear in mind that the Valve(Tube) amps will be heavier, more expensive, and have a somewhat lower EQ, which I have always enjoyed.
Valve amp has more clarity. Solid state sounds muddier in comparison. I noticed the difference especially on the Chuck Berry riff. Compare @3:25(solid state) as compared to @4:08(valve). I prefer that sound myself. Has more personality. As far as the Judas Priest riff compare @5:28(valve) to @6:33 (solid state), Solid state just sounds more "compressed."
I was thinking exactly the opposite.there was a difference but clarity wasn't it.there's a drive to the tubes solid state doesn't have..but most of your audience would never know the difference.
I don't think the solid-state was muddier......just had a little more bass and the difference could be how the eq levels vary. For me, the valve amp let the picking dynamics come through. On that chuck berry riff you could hear more when he was digging in compared to the solid-state.
That was a fantastic demo Sir!!! I much prefer the tone of the Valve amp. You personify the spirt of rock and roll and your playing is great. Greetings from Texas!!!
I dont ever comment on here, but watching this video I suddenly felt compelled. Being a guitar play and having used both solid state and tube amps I would like to share my opinion. I have mostly only played Fender tube amps but have played through some Boogies, and a few Marshalls. That being said I owned a Marshall MG50X? I cant remember honestly, but it had the sweetest all around sound to me for a solid state amp. I was always really impressed with its sound and overall ability to work with any genre. To me the amp differences concerning sound are hardly noticeable. Very little difference in my opinion(maybe I have a terrible ear?), but I have to say its in the player. Its always in the fingers and how you play. Ive seen guys play through the crummiest amps but they were such good players they made it sound amazing. Look at Derek Trucks. Gibson SG through a Fender amp no pedals and it sounds unbelievable and he can get almost any sound you could ever imagine. So, unless you are Joe Bonamassa and can afford to run through 4 boutique, vintage heads through custom cabs your best deal for the money is solid state...but Marshall because Fender solid state amps suck in my opinion. Unless you are just practicing...then they still suck.
Honestly, if you don't TELL people which is which, they will never hear a difference worth the extra money. Or you can tell someone they are hearing a cobweb-covered vintage amp from the 50's, play them a modern solid state amp, and they will swear all day long that they can hear the smell of hot glass and old wood.
I think you absolutely can tell the difference. Especially in a live setting, even with the best youtube quality videos you can't really get the full effect of an amp. You can feel a tube amp live. Compressed sound clips on youtube actually make the two sound more similar than they actually are. In a live setting you can feel the amplifier do what its supposed to do. That being said, there are decent solid state amps that can get a job done or are fine to use and practice at home. To the common person just listening to music at a concert, sure they might not be able to tell the difference between the amps, but anyone who plays will be able to tell immediately. Even older tube amps sound different than fairly more recent ones, because of design and such. Thats why a Tonemaster sounds far different than a twin reverb. You can absolutely tell the difference.
dude you've obviously never played through a cobweb-covered vintage amp from the 50's or you wouldn't be saying what your saying because there is a big difference.
Yes. Some people have a blind faith in tube amps. The truth is several tube amps are in fact imperfect, unstable, and become totally different after a tube retrofit. The hype goes far, there are people blabbing over JCM800 vs 900 differences, when the two of them can be dialed to sound the same.
If the MG has the FDD switch they put in them after a while if you have it engaged the higher you turn the "clean" channel the dirtier it gets. It reacts like a valve amp. You can turn it off and get crisp clean tone clear up to 10.
Most demos seem to go for the 12 o'clock settings but I've never used any amp with these settings. Dial in the best tone you can get would be a fairer comparison between amps.
I agree too - my previous comments were for this video which is mainly "gain city", and I agree - nice clean gains via SS amp. I think you can only get those warm, creamy tone CLEANS from a Tube Amp.
I disagree, I feel like the ss overdrive was just barely starting to sound fizzy. Nonetheless, running it through better speakers made it sound way better than I thought before hearing it.
I agree. i REALLY disliked the valves dirty channel. The SS sounded a tiny bit screechy dirty. I think they needed adjusted a tiny bit though. The valve dirty needed bass treble turned up just a bit and the SS needed it turned down just a HAIR to get rid of that screech. I was actually really suprised by this. My mental theory is perfect tone= clean valve amp with a very good distortion pedal through it. But then again on tone im usually backwards sadly
Great video Craig, thanks for taking time to put it together. I find it amazing that I get such sound changes by connecting a 412 to tube or ss combo amps. What I would say to young guitarists is, don't be ashamed to play through a ss if you can't afford a tube. -May take some tweaking, but a ss can sound great too. I have expensive tube amps, but often find myself on the run, picking up a ss and throwing it in my car to go and play at local events. This happens because my tube gear is so heavy that when I think about loading it in the car, back out of the car, across a parking lot, through grass, up a hill to a stage in a park or something I just end up grabbing a light weight solid state. And, if I am watching a guitarist, I am not judging them on the amp, but rather what they are getting out of it, be it tube or solid state. Craig is right in saying each amp has its own best setting, but my hats off to those stuck with one or the other and able to bring out the versatility they need to achieve on the spot. Rock on. Great vid.
Same... but i kinda like the warmth from the valve amp. Both Valve and Solid State got their advantages and disadvantages... all depends on the amp really XD
GokiGandalf that warmth or thickness sounds nice, but it's nothing a good pedal can't remedy. I have a Shun Nokina 9/9 Lequtique Distortion pedal (Hand made in Japan) and it's MOSFET-based. Has a really thick tone and I can drive my Marshall MG15CF pretty hard on the clean channel with it. Takes some of that thinness that people seem to complain about SS amps and thickens it nicely. I'm sure a Full tone Fulldrive could do something similar.
Thanks for the vid - really interesting. Surprising how similar they sounded! Preferred the valve but I bet in a band context the difference would be even smaller. I've used valve amps for years live and frankly, most audiences couldn't give a toss what amp you use as long as you play their fav songs and have drunk enough beer!
A week ago my digital and analogical electronics professor told us to design an amplifier of our choosing and since I play guitar, I decided I would build one seeing as how I could use it long after my class. My only doubt between the two were the sound. After this amazing comparison video, I now know that I can safely choose a solid state amp to build and I won't be missing out on too much even though I feel the SS amp has a slightly deeper sound. All in all, I am highly grateful for this video. Thank You!
I listened through my stereo. I could tell the tube pushes through and how do I say, “speaks” everything you do in a clean punch tone. Every note is distinguished. The solid state when you turn it up gets “buzzy bees in a box” you can slightly tell is emulated and all of the notes seem to be “blahhhhed” together rather than on its own scale. I like how the 30 tube was as loud as a 50 watt dB wise and the tube punched through no problem. And the tube is running a cab twice in impedance “ohm” than the solid state. Tube =8ohm vs solid state is 4ohm. So you also get quality with power with a tube. I own a Marshall DSL40c, and with half the power 20/40 switched I can only turn it to 3/10 playing with an outdoor band. Lovely stuff. :)
Working guitarists agree, most drunks you are playing to in the clubs can't tell the difference so why bother with lugging a tube amp around? Solid state is more reliable and requires less maintenance, and the most important fact, they are much lighter.
Sound better to you, but my point is, your audience are mostly unaware of what good tone is, so why bother? Who are you trying to impress anyway? Good tone is achieved by a combination of amp, guitar and fingers. I don't use the excuse of non tube amps to determine my sound. Clapton used a Musicman amp at one point and it was solid state and tube hybrid. Now tell me which sounds better to him? Can you tell the difference in his recordings? I think not.
Less weight, less shit to fuck up, less ri$k if something was to happen to it. Solid state technology has come a long way. Better to spend top dollar on a great speaker cabinet, leave the tube amps at home or in the studio and use a good solid state or tube emulating amplifier live at a fraction of the cost of a tube amp. Agree with Tick Bryan all the way.
Adam Youdell nothing beats full tube tone at loud volume. the amp in this video is not a full tube, a valve amp is half tube half solid state, which is why amps are called for example a VOX valvetronix, a full tube amp you can not beat
Hi, the reason for using the 4 * 12 cabs was so that both amps were using identical speakers. The speakers in the respective 1*12 cabs are different. Craig
I've played tube amps including top of the line Mesa Boogies and I'm done with those. Too loud and too heavy to carry around. I am looking at getting either a Marshall MG or Fender Mustang. Both are great non-valve amps.
@@viktorpetarmarusic1299 the guy said he was done using tube amps and going back to using solid state amps thats like trading a rib eye steak for a sausage link but who am i to judge
Pause @8:16 and (with the valve amp) you’ll see the smoother drop off in the frequencies above 5k, Where’s the solid state amp has bigger dips creating small peeks/spikes. This can create that harsher sound people hear in SS amps, but that’s why many people put a parametric EQ (or basic EQ) in the FX loop of their SS amp. It can really help in rolling off those harsh sounds, that are noticeable when SS gain/distortion added. Another trick is to “use a compressor pedal in the FX loop,” for creating that valve power amp sag. (If your going for that sound)
Clean was more interesting on the Valve amp and the Overdrive was better on the Solid State, just my preference. Great demo! It seems that every demo I hear, the clean channel is the way to go on a tube amp and just drive it with the volume on the amp and on the guitar.
The thing is, this post is now so old, Marshall has now brought out the Code series of modelling amps, funnily enough, I bought one and it sounds awesome.
There are two main differences between valve and SS amps: 1. Great harmonic distortion ratio of valves that leads to an OVERDETAILED sound (WARM sound) 2. Smooth and creamy overdrive sound of valves. The first one cannot completely be achieved with SS amps, but there are some JFET transistors that add warmness to the sound due to their similarity in structure with the valves . The seconed can be easilly achieved with many of SS pedals.
The solid state held it's own much better than I thought it would. Price difference today about $500 for tube vs. about $175 for solid state for these models.
At last, a tonal comparison where the valve amp has not been deliberately sabotaged in some way. It's always easy to pick out the tube amp in these videos, it' the one that sounds obviously worse. Well done, mate. this is the only honest comparison video of valve vs tranny out of dozens. Good on ya
The valve on the left sounded better, this is why.. It was a warmer sound, had less distortion that the solid state,the frequencies didn't overlap like the solid sate did. The solid state sounded more tinny,less depth of colour in the mid range. The valve amp was excellent at allowing all the sounds (highs and lows) to all play together effortlessly the full audio range was warm, soulful, clean and undistorted, the solid state lacks in warmth and being able to clearly reproduce all the individual frequencies, the valve for me wins hands down.
The test should be done with the damping on. That option simulates how the valves react to sound and feel. I did understand that It was off, correct me if im wrong.
@@crazeyjoe damn right. I have a Jeff loomis signature 7 string. My OD pedal in front of that thing is apocalyptic. And the clean channel with lower output pickups is quite serviceable.
I did note one thing that I didn't see anyone mention in the comments, except for in a round about way. Transistor switching time. It's SUPER apparent in the spectrum analyzer that is shown in the lower right. Look at the left side of the trace. The tube amp has a smoother profile to it's curve than the SS amp did. This is a perfect showing of how different 2 modes of amplification can be, while accomplishing the same goal.
The only noticeable tonal differences between tube and SS amps, to my ears at least, is the clean channel. SS cleans stay clean 100% of the time, where as tube cleans break up really early, making the tone not clean anymore. That, and the fact that SS power sections are for the most part tonally flat, which is great in my opinion. More highs and more lows fore more tone.
A good point. I tend to use the clean channel on the JTM30 most of the time, It has a nice natural overdrive at higher volumes. The distortion channel is not great.
StratGuitarman69 It's about the harmonics wich will appear when the amp is overdriven. It's apparent with a correctly played leadtone or when using overtones in funky clean riffs or fingerpicking. Wich was not demonstrated. It is this what sets an valve amp apart. And helps great players to become immortal. Just like the difference between a fast GTI engine and a fully tuned formula one engine... Everything is faster, better and much much harder to handle... But once used by a great driver.... it wins races... And it is what songs make or break.
+NmG VapoR you still have to manipulate your setting on the amp...just because it is a tube amp don't automatically mean it's gonna sound better. Brand of tubes also have a big part.
I have a Valvestate combo Marshall (valved pre-amp / solid state power-amp) and it's a piece of glory. It sounds warm and clean, and hard a as rock, you can do anything you want. Sadly they don't make it anymore. Mine is of the 90's.
Yeah, Valvestate amps were (and are) excellent combinations of both technologies. I have the 40 Watt 8240 Stereo Chorus, and there was also an 80 Watt 8280 Bi-Chorus. There has been a trend to buy small amps with small speakers in the last two decades, but IMHO you need at least 12" speakers for a really good full sound, and it's better to have TWO of them. Yes, they're heavier, but they're also much better for stage performances! (I use a small bass amp with a pedalboard for the guitars in my living room..., which can amplify anything from acoustic to electric to bass... as long as I have a large speaker, it works for me)
It would be interesting to compare the valve amp with the mg series with the frequency dependant dampening turned on, as that's supposed to mimic how a valve amp interacts with the speaker.
Clean: Tubes win.....crisper and midrangier. Dirty: Tubes again.....the SS dirty had a scooped sound compared to the ballsy mid-range sound of the Valves.
Very professional comparison ! The sound is different. This is visible also from the sound histogram. The valve amplifier has more detailed picture with more small and tin pics, and also lasting longer time by ending the music because is more sensitive to the small reverberations.
Thanks Great video. Something that is never mentioned when talking about valve amps is that they require alot of care when replacing the valves and rebiasing. Solid state amps dont require this at all. I will be switching back to a solid state amp eventually and the MG series seems to be a good alternative.
The Fonz was too cool, even for guitar playing. I've thought about this before. Of course guitar players are renown for being very cool, but it seems sometimes like the really really cool dudes in the club are not guitar players.
For a guitar worn as much as that is, I expected him to be able to play the guitar. There's clearly a difference between the amps, but I don't think either is better than the other, just different. The tube DOES have a little better saturation sound, but unless you're recording a platinum record, no one will notice, especially in a live environment.
I think the true difference, is the way the distortion FEELS when you play a tube amp vs SS. Tube- great pick dynamics, tighter not so loose and sloppy distortion, sounds clearer and replicates what you play thru it more accurately, plus the low end should pump, and not "flop" out as with SS distortion. Plus, IMO, just flat out sounds better. More "real".
This was really helpful and helped me have a "definitive" take on the matter. -The tube amp sounded more warm, mellow...colorful, it had this natural tone to it. -The solid state amp sounded more gritty, aggressive, urban, it had a more processed feel to it. I mostly play metally stuff and contemporary worship kinda stuffs. I feel the solid state is for me. But anyone into jazz, country, blues, "vintage" rock kinda music just can't compromise: valve amp all the way. Thank you for this Craig! :)
I've got a few Marshall amps the one I play most is the valve , but in the back room I have a Marshall code 100 it's a lot of fun . But my favorite is the value
@@becauseiwasinverted5222 problem is, youtube compress sound, so it's always that there, that wont make a good vs. And then theres the thing, an amp really loud live it's really different from an amp in a shop or your bedroom. Finally, the cab.... makes a whole difference
One reason I like solid state is because you can have a lot of distortion while the volume isn't loud... If your in a quite setting and want distortion sold state is good
***** That's worth the feeling of a wall of sound in your face. That's really what makes playing guitar for me. Sure I like the music and the way the strings feel, but hearing and feeling that sound makes electric guitar 100% worth while.
Haha I love it... All these gear-heads are throwing in their two cents about what they think each valve and is worth and blah blah blah... You and me are over here like "oh it has wheels? Ok I'm sold!" HAHAHAHA
Can’t say I hear much of a difference, but I’m wondering if there might be a difference in how they feel in comparison? Tone wise I think with some eq tweaking they both probably can be made to sound damn close to equal.
It's all a matter of how the actual circuit has been designed and build. The mere need for an output transformer in MOST tube(-like) amplifiers restricts them to not being able to reproduce very low frequencies (anything below 50Hz in this case). MOST transistor amps (in the same price range), however, don't need decoupling or transformers on the output line, extending the lower frequency range. Yes, I'm aware of "full and thick" not being the same as frequency range, but this is a mere case of a decent EQ setting on properly-designed amps.
***** I think tube output transformers limit both very low and high frequency of tube which result in naturally warmer sound in tube without much need of tone or feedback circuits like transistors, also with much less background noise. Transistor may can go down to DC, but that not good, the feedback circuit need to cut off at 20Hz in the good amp. Bias in tube are easy but not so with transistors without distortion.
True, they limit both the high's and the lows. Yet, due to a speaker being a very non-ideal load to hook up to an amplifier, an output transformer also lifts some harmonics due to the speaker "wobbling" around, and the inductors trying to hold their current. This same effect can be reached (don't shoot me) in solid-state amps, if you use current-driven output instead of voltage-driven output and use a band-filter for 50Hz to 10kHz.
***** Speaker's impedance is dynamic and changes with frequencies, a good solid-state amps can obtain flat bandwidth 15Hz ~ 30kHz flat and sharp cut-off on both ends, theory it is better than tube but people wouldn't want flat also background noise is higher than tube.
It is indeed true that background noise in transistors is higher than in tubes. This is partially due to transistors being more sensitive to EMI than tubes, which again is partially due to the speed at which they can operate, and because they have a smaller capacitive surface than tubes. In the end, it still falls back to starting of with a proper design and built. It is easier with a "basic" design to acheive proper quality with tubes, but when real effort is put into it, transistors can acheive better precision to reproduce the complete dynamics of the recording.
***** From my experience, the speaker is by far the most important aspect to the sound of any amp. I believe it makes between 70 - 90% of the amps sound depending on the amp. This makes sense if you think about it because the speaker is what turns the electrical energy back into audible sound. If you play clean, the speaker makes 90% of the difference. If more distorted valves will produce a bit better sound due to the even harmonics produced by the valves. In this case the speaker makes about 70% of the difference. Why do $1000 valve amps sound better than $250 solid state amps? It's because if you build an amp for $250 you are not going to put a $150 speaker in it. You will put a Chinese made speaker costing $20 in it. If you spend $800 - $1000 building an amp then the manufacturer can justify putting a $150 - $250 speaker in it. Simple !!!!!!. This is why valve amps generally sound better and louder than solid state, it is nothing to do with the circuitry, it is all about the quality and efficiency of the speaker. From a volume perspective, this is proven by the formula for the volume of any amp ---> Volume in decibels = 10 times the log (base 10) of the number of watts + the speaker efficiency measured in decibels per watt per metre. So if the speaker is 5 - 8 db more efficient, it is going to sound way louder even if the amps are the same wattage. Note all wattages should be measured in RMS (root mean squared). Any measurement of wattage in peak power or any other term is a load of rubbish. RMS is the only generally accepted measurement for wattage (electrical power).
For clean tones, SS can be very clean, but it's also more sterile adding nothing to the over all tone. Tube amps are so loved because they do add harmonics and oddities, or "color", to the tone, which most guitar players love. The amp becomes an instrument or an added part to the instrument and is not just a method of amplification. SS is great if you want to amplify a given sound, such as for Hi-fi playback where you want the amp to reproduce with volume what has been given to it. Difference.
I would like to know on what basis you believe unplugging a guitar lead without going to standby is a problem. Do you really understand what the standby switch is for? I think not.Suggest you look it up. I have never had an amp fail because of this and I got my first valve amp in 1976. In fact that and a few others had no standby switch. Are you also suggesting that switching between two valve amps with an A/B switch requires putting the amp on standby first. difficult mid-song. Chill out.
Thanks! Very useful, especially the EQ graphic. Using that you can really see why the valve has a 'warmer' sound vs the solid state (rounded vs jagged). Both amps sound good IMO, it's just a matter of what kind of sound you want. And more so, sound that is in the 'mix'.
I have to say: I noticed a pretty big difference in the tone of both amps, I tried the same sort of test with my amplifier, a semi-tube 12AX7 based Hartke HA3500, and the tube gave a more rounded, mellow but still pretty bright and crisp tone, and when I swapped top the solid state, it had a bit more bottom end and sounded a little heavier, but driving the solid state side is a pain because it doesn't distort as well as a good old fashioned preamp tube does,,, hence... I use the tube preamp more than the solid state!!
***** I bought the CR120C, 120watt 2x12 combo version, and I was, and still am blown away by it! I have an Orange Rockerverb MKII 50, amazing amplifier, with an Orange PPC4x12 cab, and I've always gigged with those but when I bought the CR120C I found that to be my 'go to' for quite a while, especially on long tours or going abroad for sessions. I've recently just bought a Bogner Helios 100 and even though it's a high quality sounding amp along with the Rockerverb the CR120C still has a place, it's that good! I don't even consider it to be a back up only amplifier. Orange have nailed it with Solid State, they done the correct thing by modelling it on an existing valve amp, the Rockerverb - which it basically is, only thing it doesn't have in common is valves. I'm glad they didn't follow Fender's, Marshall's or Line 6's approach and installed a load of crap FX features that no one will use. Orange have just stuck to what they do best and built a seriously great workhorse that can be used anywhere.
In this demo the tube sounded better, the more distorted sound from the tube amp aside it does show what people like about a tube amp. It's not only the warmth or the tone (although that is a part of it) but the liveliness or dynamics as it would probably be called officially. Correct me if I'm wrong but solid state builders have been onto trying to get that lively aspect in solid state amps these days though, I don't know if this solid state amp has anything to make it respond more 'tube-like'.
Love this video. Sonic and analytical comparisons were awesome. The valve does give that last 5‰ of richness. But I would encourage players to focus on their playing and not get too wrapped around the axle on valve vs SS. There is maintenance and reliability concerns with the valves. So getting 95% of the tone with 0% of the worries may be a great choice when you are up and coming. And if your lucky enough... Get one of each...
Well....I the amp I use the most is a katana mini. Sounds amazing, great for bedroom recording, doesn't need tube replacements etc. My blues junior has been sitting in my closet for years because for a bedroom guitarist, the tone between tube and transistor is negligible.
You gotta love these knob jockeys that turn their noses up at SS amps... BB king had one of the best tones on the planet, he used a Lab Series L5... yup, you guessed it... its a SS amp..... you gotta love the snobs...or should that be the sheep...lol
I all ways hear people saying there is no difference between solid and tube. There simply is a difference. When played back to back. The actual sound of an amp could be good or bad. I heard loads of crap valve amps and great ones to. The solid state amps are cheap to make so there are a lot of crap ones to catch the new buyer. valve amps are a lot more expensive and people tend to hear the amps before they buy with hard earned cash. So it would be harder to shift crap tube amps. There are good solid state amps that sound good. Then after a few years playing and the ear training that comes with experience people want tubes. there is differences thow. I all ways think just buy what you like and all is well. No need to berate some one for using transistor amps
+spartanworria These solid amps that sound good because they are hibrids. A mix between valve and electric. But I think there is no comparision between the two. I had the chance to use one and valve amps produce a powerful sound. The electric amp produces a weaker sound. If everyone had the chance to pick a valve amp they'll surely do it. But they are far way more expensive.
23igna Sorry but not every one can hear the difference between a valve and transistor amp. Some people are just tone deaf and cannot hear it. They are the same twats that say what guitars are made of makes no difference to.
spartanworria Yes I know. Jim Marshall said that most of the great American and European Rock bands from the sixties bought their equipment from him. He built 23 amps and sold them in one day. The first amps ever created were, obviously, valve amps. As you said, later they realized the electric amps were cheaper and easier to make. They obviously sound worse but they are convenient for a company that wants to produce equipment on a larger scale and make big amounts of money.
+23igna Nnnnnot necessarily. I own both and will definitely agree valves (short answer) are just better. However there are some killer solid state only amps out there. Orange CR120h comes to mind. Killer. I'd trade my Blackstar tube amp for that amp.
Where people can really hear the difference is picking soft and loud in one measure. On a valve amp you can go so soft you can almost go silent. On solid state it's more like it just there or it's not. Limited dynamic control. Dynamics in music is more musical and professional. I think valve sounds better in general too.
Biggest tell tale is feedback in a tube amp is controllable,Solid state cuts feedback,and some frequencies.You can feel the tubes ringing and swelling with feedback.
if he wouldn't have put the amps into the cabinets then the solid state would have sounded like shit BECAUSE OF THE SPEAKERS not the amp itself. no wonder people hate solid state when companies are cramming the shittiest speakers in the world into their SS combos. if you think your solid state amp is a bad amp, try plugging into or replacing the speaker in your amp. you will be very, very pleased.
The best amp i ever heard in my life was s Laney supergroup from 1969, i had one then sold it, guts me to this day that i sold it. It was without any doubt the best amp i have ever heard, the quality was outstanding.
It probably wouldn't make too much of a difference given how the cabs are mic'd, but I feel like I have to point out the the SS is paired with a slanted amp and the tube amp is paired with a straight cab. Slanted cabs have more wood, which COULD make it sound more muddy/warm.
great job, nice comparison. I think the sound itself answers alot of questions, too many ppl are tube only crazy even myself. But the SS amp performed well. The settings are the heart of the sound
There is a difference in "tone" obviously, with the solid state a lot brighter than the valve, but that's less important, as different amps do sound different and it's down to personal preference which tone sounds better. The important thing to concentrate on here is how dynamic the valve amp is, and by that I mean how the amp reacts to the initial pick attack and how it sounds as the note dies down. The valve amp has a big spike of distortion on the pick attack, and then as the note decays both volume and distortion drops slightly, where as the solid state maintains the same volume and distortion throughout the entire note lifecycle. This makes the solid state sound very flat, and the valve sound bouncy and alive. Another example is when extra notes are added after the base note, the valve amp, distorts more in reaction to the increased input, whereas the solid state adds the notes to the mix but the amount of drive does not change.This is what people mean when they talk about the "feel" of a valve amp. It's not as apparent on youtube clips due to the compression in the recording signal chain, but is quite apparent in person.
Clean Master Volume 1/2
Tube: 1:54
Solid State: 2:44
Clean Master Volume Full
Tube: 4:08
Solid State: 3:26
Overdrive
Tube: 5:28
Solid State: 6:34
Tube + Solid State Combined: 7:44
Any guy who thinks choosing a SS or tube amp is going to make or break the deal is kidding himself. Let EVH or Jeff Beck plug into either of those rigs and I guarantee you they will make either one sound amazing. Spend your time practicing instead of worrying about gear. 90% of the sound will come from your brain and fingers. You either have it or you don't and the kind of amp you buy is not going to make a major difference. If you are not great, spending $1200 on a tube head is not going to make you into one of your guitar heroes. Talent and hard work may.
a $4000 dollar guitar in to a $100 amp will always sound like shit. a $200 guitar in to a $2000 dollar will still sound atleast good. so although it's true a amp isn't going to make you EVH but it is true a good amp is a good investment in any long term player.
I was using a John birch SG into an old H|HIC100S solid state head and Marshall 4 x 12. Phil Campbell out of Motorhead asked me how I got my sound. That to me states that there's nothing wrong with solid state amps.
"spending $1200 on a tube head is not going to make you into one of your guitar heroes. Talent and hard work may." Agree.
And buying a $4000 Gibson Les Paul neither...
Roger Waters: "It's like saying, Give a man a Les Paul guitar and he becomes Eric Clapton. And it's not true."
Thanks, Captain Obvious.
I would say more hard work than anything. Leon Hendrix talked about the countless hours Jimi spent practicing. He wasn't a "natural", he just busted his ass.
The Valve amp is like a warm grey, the Solid state is like a cool grey. Neither seems like better or worse, just different.
Well, different for some is going to pose a competition. I find the tube superior, and I’m not an old timer, I grew up on solid state, and a nice one at that.
I prefer Marshall solid states, only for low volume practices in a small room.
But if the volume gets louder like jamming with a band, I prefer the tube type.
Great demo and playing, Craig !
From my experience, the reason these amps sound closer to each other than usual is that the speaker is by far the most important aspect to the sound of any amp. I believe it makes between 70 - 90% of the amps sound depending on the amp. This makes sense if you think about it because the speaker is what turns the electrical energy back into audible sound. If you play clean, the speaker makes 90% of the difference. If more distorted valves will produce a bit better sound due to the even harmonics produced by the valves. In this case the speaker makes about 70% of the difference.
Why do $1000 valve amps sound better than $250 solid state amps? It's because if you build an amp for $250 you are not going to put a $150 speaker in it. You will put a Chinese made speaker costing $20 in it. If you spend $800 - $1000 building an amp then the manufacturer can justify putting a $150 - $250 speaker in it. Simple !!!!!!. This is why valve amps generally sound better and louder than solid state, it is nearly nothing to do with the circuitry, it is all about the quality and efficiency of the speaker. From a volume perspective, this is proven by the formula for the volume of any amp ---> Volume in decibels = 10 times the log (base 10) of the number of watts + the speaker efficiency measured in decibels per watt per metre. So if the speaker is 5 - 8 db more efficient, it is going to sound way louder even if the amps are the same wattage. Note all wattages should be measured in RMS (root mean squared). Any measurement of wattage in peak power or any other term is a load of rubbish. RMS is the only generally accepted measurement for wattage (electrical power).
no
@IM-ON-RUMBLE SS = Schutzstaffel. Ja?
I’m not expecting a 250 amp to sound like a 1000 dollar amp. Now if I had a 1000 dollar solid state amp and a 1000 dollar solid state amp that would be a fair comparison. Also once you get over $700 and 40 watts most amps are loud enough for bands, and you can get a good tone out of them if you set it right.
Spot on. A cheap speaker will make a $5,000 boutique amp sound like a 'bucket of bolts'
The valve amp definitely has a more desirable tone (by most) and a nice full sound, but I have to say I was pleasantly surprised with the tone of the solid state. It was not far off the general tone of the valve, and I'd say it would hold it's own fairly well. Great comparison and good explanation :) Thanks!
Thanks for posting. The basic differences between valve and transistor are apparent: Valves are brighter and clearer, and transistors are darker and muddier.
Bearista Bear darker yes, but i don't know about muddy.
+BuddyJesusSmokes Ss amp usually have quicker attack.
+Bearista Bear Yep my thoughts exactly
+Philip Laing quicker attack probably but a lot of us like the "sag" of tubes, adds character. to each his own
Bearista Bear, not in my ears. My ears are opposites to yours, lol.
It's like day and night for me, tube all the way! warmer and clearer, it has life by itself.
Valves will always bring a smile to my face as compared to solid state which sounds thinner! As an owner of both types of Marshall's, please bear in mind that the Valve(Tube) amps will be heavier, more expensive, and have a somewhat lower EQ, which I have always enjoyed.
Valve amp has more clarity. Solid state sounds muddier in comparison. I noticed the difference especially on the Chuck Berry riff. Compare @3:25(solid state) as compared to @4:08(valve). I prefer that sound myself. Has more personality. As far as the Judas Priest riff compare @5:28(valve) to @6:33 (solid state), Solid state just sounds more "compressed."
I was thinking exactly the opposite.there was a difference but clarity wasn't it.there's a drive to the tubes solid state doesn't have..but most of your audience would never know the difference.
I don't think the solid-state was muddier......just had a little more bass and the difference could be how the eq levels vary. For me, the valve amp let the picking dynamics come through. On that chuck berry riff you could hear more when he was digging in compared to the solid-state.
Solid state lacked drive
That was a fantastic demo Sir!!! I much prefer the tone of the Valve amp. You personify the spirt of rock and roll and your playing is great. Greetings from Texas!!!
I dont ever comment on here, but watching this video I suddenly felt compelled. Being a guitar play and having used both solid state and tube amps I would like to share my opinion. I have mostly only played Fender tube amps but have played through some Boogies, and a few Marshalls. That being said I owned a Marshall MG50X? I cant remember honestly, but it had the sweetest all around sound to me for a solid state amp. I was always really impressed with its sound and overall ability to work with any genre. To me the amp differences concerning sound are hardly noticeable. Very little difference in my opinion(maybe I have a terrible ear?), but I have to say its in the player. Its always in the fingers and how you play. Ive seen guys play through the crummiest amps but they were such good players they made it sound amazing. Look at Derek Trucks. Gibson SG through a Fender amp no pedals and it sounds unbelievable and he can get almost any sound you could ever imagine. So, unless you are Joe Bonamassa and can afford to run through 4 boutique, vintage heads through custom cabs your best deal for the money is solid state...but Marshall because Fender solid state amps suck in my opinion. Unless you are just practicing...then they still suck.
Honestly, if you don't TELL people which is which, they will never hear a difference worth the extra money. Or you can tell someone they are hearing a cobweb-covered vintage amp from the 50's, play them a modern solid state amp, and they will swear all day long that they can hear the smell of hot glass and old wood.
Bullshit, i can hear and feel my tubes when I play, if they weren't the best then people wouldn't use them still. all the best players use tubes.
I think you absolutely can tell the difference. Especially in a live setting, even with the best youtube quality videos you can't really get the full effect of an amp. You can feel a tube amp live. Compressed sound clips on youtube actually make the two sound more similar than they actually are. In a live setting you can feel the amplifier do what its supposed to do. That being said, there are decent solid state amps that can get a job done or are fine to use and practice at home. To the common person just listening to music at a concert, sure they might not be able to tell the difference between the amps, but anyone who plays will be able to tell immediately. Even older tube amps sound different than fairly more recent ones, because of design and such. Thats why a Tonemaster sounds far different than a twin reverb. You can absolutely tell the difference.
dude you've obviously never played through a cobweb-covered vintage amp from the 50's or you wouldn't be saying what your saying because there is a big difference.
Bullshit. Just because you cant hear the difference doesnt mean that there is no difference. Some people have really bad ears.
Yes. Some people have a blind faith in tube amps. The truth is several tube amps are in fact imperfect, unstable, and become totally different after a tube retrofit. The hype goes far, there are people blabbing over JCM800 vs 900 differences, when the two of them can be dialed to sound the same.
I find that the reason why SS marshals sound extraordinarily crap are the speakers. That explains why it sounded pretty good in this video.
Bence Varga i have one a ss what speakers would you put in
@@josephgordon9645 I would try Celestion Greenback, you really can't go wrong with them, especially with Marshall.
I have a MG100FX head going into a Marshall 4x12 cabinet. Sounds great to me!
"clean channel"
not even close to clean ahah
incorrect sir that's what happens when you push the clean....pretty sweet
It's not Fender clean, but if you're into metal or heavy rock, it's fine IMHO. I have a JCM800 4212 combo.
If the MG has the FDD switch they put in them after a while if you have it engaged the higher you turn the "clean" channel the dirtier it gets. It reacts like a valve amp. You can turn it off and get crisp clean tone clear up to 10.
So, you've got a 'clean' channel with a 'gain' control set to 12 o'clock. Half clean?
Most demos seem to go for the 12 o'clock settings but I've never used any amp with these settings.
Dial in the best tone you can get would be a fairer comparison between amps.
To me the Valve sounded better with the clean and blues, while the Solid state sound much clearer with distortion!
I agree
I agree too - my previous comments were for this video which is mainly "gain city", and I agree - nice clean gains via SS amp. I think you can only get those warm, creamy tone CLEANS from a Tube Amp.
I disagree, I feel like the ss overdrive was just barely starting to sound fizzy. Nonetheless, running it through better speakers made it sound way better than I thought before hearing it.
I agree. i REALLY disliked the valves dirty channel. The SS sounded a tiny bit screechy dirty. I think they needed adjusted a tiny bit though. The valve dirty needed bass treble turned up just a bit and the SS needed it turned down just a HAIR to get rid of that screech. I was actually really suprised by this. My mental theory is perfect tone= clean valve amp with a very good distortion pedal through it. But then again on tone im usually backwards sadly
LOL is the other way around, tubes are for dist and SS for cleans.
Great video Craig, thanks for taking time to put it together. I find it amazing that I get such sound changes by connecting a 412 to tube or ss combo amps. What I would say to young guitarists is, don't be ashamed to play through a ss if you can't afford a tube. -May take some tweaking, but a ss can sound great too. I have expensive tube amps, but often find myself on the run, picking up a ss and throwing it in my car to go and play at local events. This happens because my tube gear is so heavy that when I think about loading it in the car, back out of the car, across a parking lot, through grass, up a hill to a stage in a park or something I just end up grabbing a light weight solid state. And, if I am watching a guitarist, I am not judging them on the amp, but rather what they are getting out of it, be it tube or solid state. Craig is right in saying each amp has its own best setting, but my hats off to those stuck with one or the other and able to bring out the versatility they need to achieve on the spot. Rock on. Great vid.
I actually think I liked the Solid State better, had a crisper, tighter sound.
Same... but i kinda like the warmth from the valve amp.
Both Valve and Solid State got their advantages and disadvantages... all depends on the amp really XD
not sure if u can hear it, but valves had realy more alive(organic) sound.. i thought everybody likes that?
I can hear it but believe it or not your personal tastes aren't everyone elses.
was just askin dude, i respect your opinion.
GokiGandalf that warmth or thickness sounds nice, but it's nothing a good pedal can't remedy. I have a Shun Nokina 9/9 Lequtique Distortion pedal (Hand made in Japan) and it's MOSFET-based. Has a really thick tone and I can drive my Marshall MG15CF pretty hard on the clean channel with it. Takes some of that thinness that people seem to complain about SS amps and thickens it nicely. I'm sure a Full tone Fulldrive could do something similar.
I prefer the valve clean channel as adjusting the guitar volume does a great job going between clean and distortion without such a drastic variance
Thanks for the vid - really interesting. Surprising how similar they sounded! Preferred the valve but I bet in a band context the difference would be even smaller. I've used valve amps for years live and frankly, most audiences couldn't give a toss what amp you use as long as you play their fav songs and have drunk enough beer!
A week ago my digital and analogical electronics professor told us to design an amplifier of our choosing and since I play guitar, I decided I would build one seeing as how I could use it long after my class. My only doubt between the two were the sound. After this amazing comparison video, I now know that I can safely choose a solid state amp to build and I won't be missing out on too much even though I feel the SS amp has a slightly deeper sound. All in all, I am highly grateful for this video. Thank You!
No average audience member in a club or bar would ever hear the difference.
The audience is not playing the amp though.
So true. They just like to dance to their songs
Say's the solid state owner
@Possumlove I use a Les Paul and 100w Marshall.
End of story.
@Possumlove Fuck off you low rent clown
Finally a great demo where differences, just related to the amps, are audible.
How in the world can you call the "clean channel" clean?! That's crunchy as hell! -_-
He set the volume at high level, so the tube amp crank up
それは知ってるけど、
cleanって言うのが間違ってるだろ？
全然cleanじゃないからな :p
totally agree , that was as clean as a pigs asshole .
Clean with a tube screamer cranked on drive maybe..
David gritty.
I listened through my stereo. I could tell the tube pushes through and how do I say, “speaks” everything you do in a clean punch tone. Every note is distinguished. The solid state when you turn it up gets “buzzy bees in a box” you can slightly tell is emulated and all of the notes seem to be “blahhhhed” together rather than on its own scale. I like how the 30 tube was as loud as a 50 watt dB wise and the tube punched through no problem. And the tube is running a cab twice in impedance “ohm” than the solid state. Tube =8ohm vs solid state is 4ohm. So you also get quality with power with a tube. I own a Marshall DSL40c, and with half the power 20/40 switched I can only turn it to 3/10 playing with an outdoor band. Lovely stuff. :)
Working guitarists agree, most drunks you are playing to in the clubs can't tell the difference so why bother with lugging a tube amp around? Solid state is more reliable and requires less maintenance, and the most important fact, they are much lighter.
tubes sound so much better though, so much more tone!
Sound better to you, but my point is, your audience are mostly unaware of what good tone is, so why bother? Who are you trying to impress anyway? Good tone is achieved by a combination of amp, guitar and fingers. I don't use the excuse of non tube amps to determine my sound. Clapton used a Musicman amp at one point and it was solid state and tube hybrid. Now tell me which sounds better to him? Can you tell the difference in his recordings? I think not.
Tick Bryan
If that's your intended audience, cool then.
Less weight, less shit to fuck up, less ri$k if something was to happen to it. Solid state technology has come a long way. Better to spend top dollar on a great speaker cabinet, leave the tube amps at home or in the studio and use a good solid state or tube emulating amplifier live at a fraction of the cost of a tube amp. Agree with Tick Bryan all the way.
Adam Youdell nothing beats full tube tone at loud volume. the amp in this video is not a full tube, a valve amp is half tube half solid state, which is why amps are called for example a VOX valvetronix, a full tube amp you can not beat
Hi, the reason for using the 4 * 12 cabs was so that both amps were using identical speakers. The speakers in the respective 1*12 cabs are different.
Craig
I've played tube amps including top of the line Mesa Boogies and I'm done with those. Too loud and too heavy to carry around. I am looking at getting either a Marshall MG or Fender Mustang. Both are great non-valve amps.
i have fender mustang gt100 i dont really like it im loseing signal from gutar and bluetooth just sux when sound stops
Why go backwards
@@mikenike1730 i dont get it :D
@@viktorpetarmarusic1299 the guy said he was done using tube amps and going back to using solid state amps thats like trading a rib eye steak for a sausage link but who am i to judge
Pause @8:16 and (with the valve amp) you’ll see the smoother drop off in the frequencies above 5k, Where’s the solid state amp has bigger dips creating small peeks/spikes.
This can create that harsher sound people hear in SS amps, but that’s why many people put a parametric EQ (or basic EQ) in the FX loop of their SS amp.
It can really help in rolling off those harsh sounds, that are noticeable when SS gain/distortion added.
Another trick is to “use a compressor pedal in the FX loop,” for creating that valve power amp sag. (If your going for that sound)
i love the fact that you have a real time analyzer in a window while playing..
All in how you set your eq is what I learned from this video. The rest is in the fingers. Good video.
BREAKING THE LAW! BREAKING THE LAW!
nicolhaidi 5:29
Makes me think of Beavis and butthead
From album "British Steel" 1980
The best thing about this video is it caused me to check out this guy and his band, "The Clan". Good, fun, unpretentious rock and roll!
Clean was more interesting on the Valve amp and the Overdrive was better on the Solid State, just my preference. Great demo! It seems that every demo I hear, the clean channel is the way to go on a tube amp and just drive it with the volume on the amp and on the guitar.
The thing is, this post is now so old, Marshall has now brought out the Code series of modelling amps, funnily enough, I bought one and it sounds awesome.
There are two main differences between valve and SS amps: 1. Great harmonic distortion ratio of valves that leads to an OVERDETAILED sound (WARM sound)
2. Smooth and creamy overdrive sound of valves.
The first one cannot completely be achieved with SS amps, but there are some JFET transistors that add warmness to the sound due to their similarity in structure with the valves . The seconed can be easilly achieved with many of SS pedals.
The solid state held it's own much better than I thought it would. Price difference today about $500 for tube vs. about $175 for solid state for these models.
To my ears that subtle difference is saturation. With the valve amplifier.
At last, a tonal comparison where the valve amp has not been deliberately sabotaged in some way. It's always easy to pick out the tube amp in these videos, it' the one that sounds obviously worse. Well done, mate. this is the only honest comparison video of valve vs tranny out of dozens. Good on ya
The valve on the left sounded better, this is why..
It was a warmer sound, had less distortion that the solid state,the frequencies didn't overlap like the solid sate did.
The solid state sounded more tinny,less depth of colour in the mid range.
The valve amp was excellent at allowing all the sounds (highs and lows) to all play together effortlessly the full audio range was warm, soulful, clean and undistorted, the solid state lacks in warmth and being able to clearly reproduce all the individual frequencies, the valve for me wins hands down.
The test should be done with the damping on. That option simulates how the valves react to sound and feel. I did understand that It was off, correct me if im wrong.
My experience with simulation thus far in guitar playing, even the expensive simulation, is that it’s always ass.
Marshall has made some fine high gain transistor amps over the years, imp.
Yes sir... I'm swearing by my late 80s Marshall 5210 combo. Absolutely brilliant amp and this coming from a tube amp snob
8100 valve state. Love that amp
@@jacak47410 If Marshall would reissue them with better pots, they would sell fast!
@@crazeyjoe damn right. I have a Jeff loomis signature 7 string. My OD pedal in front of that thing is apocalyptic. And the clean channel with lower output pickups is quite serviceable.
@@jacak47410 A good chorus pedal using the neck pickup and the clean sound could be pretty damn decent!
I did note one thing that I didn't see anyone mention in the comments, except for in a round about way. Transistor switching time. It's SUPER apparent in the spectrum analyzer that is shown in the lower right. Look at the left side of the trace. The tube amp has a smoother profile to it's curve than the SS amp did. This is a perfect showing of how different 2 modes of amplification can be, while accomplishing the same goal.
The only noticeable tonal differences between tube and SS amps, to my ears at least, is the clean channel. SS cleans stay clean 100% of the time, where as tube cleans break up really early, making the tone not clean anymore. That, and the fact that SS power sections are for the most part tonally flat, which is great in my opinion. More highs and more lows fore more tone.
A good point. I tend to use the clean channel on the JTM30 most of the time, It has a nice natural overdrive at higher volumes. The distortion channel is not great.
StratGuitarman69
It's about the harmonics wich will appear when the amp is overdriven. It's apparent with a correctly played leadtone or when using overtones in funky clean riffs or fingerpicking. Wich was not demonstrated.
It is this what sets an valve amp apart. And helps great players to become immortal. Just like the difference between a fast GTI engine and a fully tuned formula one engine... Everything is faster, better and much much harder to handle... But once used by a great driver.... it wins races... And it is what songs make or break.
Ones fifty watts. SS TUBES 30
Unless your power tubes are not working, you should have beautifully cleans from a tube amp.
+NmG VapoR you still have to manipulate your setting on the amp...just because it is a tube amp don't automatically mean it's gonna sound better. Brand of tubes also have a big part.
I have a Valvestate combo Marshall (valved pre-amp / solid state power-amp) and it's a piece of glory. It sounds warm and clean, and hard a as rock, you can do anything you want. Sadly they don't make it anymore. Mine is of the 90's.
Yeah, Valvestate amps were (and are) excellent combinations of both technologies. I have the 40 Watt 8240 Stereo Chorus, and there was also an 80 Watt 8280 Bi-Chorus.
There has been a trend to buy small amps with small speakers in the last two decades, but IMHO you need at least 12" speakers for a really good full sound, and it's better to have TWO of them.
Yes, they're heavier, but they're also much better for stage performances!
(I use a small bass amp with a pedalboard for the guitars in my living room..., which can amplify anything from acoustic to electric to bass... as long as I have a large speaker, it works for me)
Tube amp clips softly, rich in nice overtones. SS clips hard, overtones not as pleasing or creamy.
It would be interesting to compare the valve amp with the mg series with the frequency dependant dampening turned on, as that's supposed to mimic how a valve amp interacts with the speaker.
Clean: Tubes win.....crisper and midrangier. Dirty: Tubes again.....the SS dirty had a scooped sound compared to the ballsy mid-range sound of the Valves.
Very professional comparison ! The sound is different. This is visible also from the sound histogram. The valve amplifier has more detailed picture with more small and tin pics, and also lasting longer time by ending the music because is more sensitive to the small reverberations.
Great demo!
Many thanks - Glad it was helpful
Thanks Great video. Something that is never mentioned when talking about valve amps is that they require alot of care when replacing the valves and rebiasing. Solid state amps dont require this at all. I will be switching back to a solid state amp eventually and the MG series seems to be a good alternative.
Why is Henry Winkler playing guitar
oh i thought it was Arthur Fonzerelli
The Fonz was too cool, even for guitar playing.
I've thought about this before.
Of course guitar players are renown for being very cool, but it seems sometimes like the really really cool dudes in the club are not guitar players.
For a guitar worn as much as that is, I expected him to be able to play the guitar. There's clearly a difference between the amps, but I don't think either is better than the other, just different. The tube DOES have a little better saturation sound, but unless you're recording a platinum record, no one will notice, especially in a live environment.
I didn't know Han Solo played guitar
Ahahahahahahaha
I think the true difference, is the way the distortion FEELS when you play a tube amp vs SS. Tube- great pick dynamics, tighter not so loose and sloppy distortion, sounds clearer and replicates what you play thru it more accurately, plus the low end should pump, and not "flop" out as with SS distortion. Plus, IMO, just flat out sounds better. More "real".
This was really helpful and helped me have a "definitive" take on the matter.
-The tube amp sounded more warm, mellow...colorful, it had this natural tone to it.
-The solid state amp sounded more gritty, aggressive, urban, it had a more processed feel to it.
I mostly play metally stuff and contemporary worship kinda stuffs. I feel the solid state is for me.
But anyone into jazz, country, blues, "vintage" rock kinda music just can't compromise: valve amp all the way.
Thank you for this Craig! :)
Well conducted comparison - I also liked the spectrum analysis. Thx!
Helps when the guitar is in tune...
It is
rikkufan009 no
I've got a few Marshall amps the one I play most is the valve , but in the back room I have a Marshall code 100 it's a lot of fun . But my favorite is the value
Its almost useless to compare different amplifiers on the internet, One must do that in a live situation...
THATS AN EXCELENT POINT THAT YOU BROUGHT UP.
Good tone should also impress on record
@@becauseiwasinverted5222 problem is, youtube compress sound, so it's always that there, that wont make a good vs. And then theres the thing, an amp really loud live it's really different from an amp in a shop or your bedroom. Finally, the cab.... makes a whole difference
turn the mids up and add a chorus pedal with all settings down and you're solid state sound more tube like.
The valve amp sounds a lot warmer , the solid state amp sounds a bit flatter.
One reason I like solid state is because you can have a lot of distortion while the volume isn't loud... If your in a quite setting and want distortion sold state is good
***** That's worth the feeling of a wall of sound in your face. That's really what makes playing guitar for me. Sure I like the music and the way the strings feel, but hearing and feeling that sound makes electric guitar 100% worth while.
Neville Longbottom learned to play guitar. :-)
Craig, you are very good olayer, having sense of time and great tone. Thank you for demonstration.
i guess i will get the solid one because it has rollers on it so that i can move it from my living room to my bed room , yeah!
Haha I love it... All these gear-heads are throwing in their two cents about what they think each valve and is worth and blah blah blah... You and me are over here like "oh it has wheels? Ok I'm sold!"
HAHAHAHA
+chunkymancan12 hhahahahaha
the Marshall MG 100 FX Amps over the Valve Amps all day long..great video
i heard i difference in brightness
Can’t say I hear much of a difference, but I’m wondering if there might be a difference in how they feel in comparison? Tone wise I think with some eq tweaking they both probably can be made to sound damn close to equal.
Exactly. All in how you set your eq. The rest is in the fingers.
Tube sound are full and thicker specially at lower frequencies as it always does.
It's all a matter of how the actual circuit has been designed and build.
The mere need for an output transformer in MOST tube(-like) amplifiers restricts them to not being able to reproduce very low frequencies (anything below 50Hz in this case). MOST transistor amps (in the same price range), however, don't need decoupling or transformers on the output line, extending the lower frequency range.
Yes, I'm aware of "full and thick" not being the same as frequency range, but this is a mere case of a decent EQ setting on properly-designed amps.
***** I think tube output transformers limit both very low and high frequency of tube which result in naturally warmer sound in tube without much need of tone or feedback circuits like transistors, also with much less background noise. Transistor may can go down to DC, but that not good, the feedback circuit need to cut off at 20Hz in the good amp. Bias in tube are easy but not so with transistors without distortion.
True, they limit both the high's and the lows.
Yet, due to a speaker being a very non-ideal load to hook up to an amplifier, an output transformer also lifts some harmonics due to the speaker "wobbling" around, and the inductors trying to hold their current.
This same effect can be reached (don't shoot me) in solid-state amps, if you use current-driven output instead of voltage-driven output and use a band-filter for 50Hz to 10kHz.
***** Speaker's impedance is dynamic and changes with frequencies, a good solid-state amps can obtain flat bandwidth 15Hz ~ 30kHz flat and sharp cut-off on both ends, theory it is better than tube but people wouldn't want flat also background noise is higher than tube.
It is indeed true that background noise in transistors is higher than in tubes.
This is partially due to transistors being more sensitive to EMI than tubes, which again is partially due to the speed at which they can operate, and because they have a smaller capacitive surface than tubes.
In the end, it still falls back to starting of with a proper design and built.
It is easier with a "basic" design to acheive proper quality with tubes, but when real effort is put into it, transistors can acheive better precision to reproduce the complete dynamics of the recording.
Loved your first vid- 1- dirty doesnt mean sloppy 2- A/B switcher nice vid
wow never thought i'd like the solid state more.
yup same here. The difference is hardly noticable, might be the 4x12 cabs with good speakers.
*****
From my experience, the speaker is by far the most important aspect to the sound of any amp. I believe it makes between 70 - 90% of the amps sound depending on the amp. This makes sense if you think about it because the speaker is what turns the electrical energy back into audible sound. If you play clean, the speaker makes 90% of the difference. If more distorted valves will produce a bit better sound due to the even harmonics produced by the valves. In this case the speaker makes about 70% of the difference. Why do $1000 valve amps sound better than $250 solid state amps? It's because if you build an amp for $250 you are not going to put a $150 speaker in it. You will put a Chinese made speaker costing $20 in it. If you spend $800 - $1000 building an amp then the manufacturer can justify putting a $150 - $250 speaker in it. Simple !!!!!!. This is why valve amps generally sound better and louder than solid state, it is nothing to do with the circuitry, it is all about the quality and efficiency of the speaker. From a volume perspective, this is proven by the formula for the volume of any amp ---> Volume in decibels = 10 times the log (base 10) of the number of watts + the speaker efficiency measured in decibels per watt per metre. So if the speaker is 5 - 8 db more efficient, it is going to sound way louder even if the amps are the same wattage. Note all wattages should be measured in RMS (root mean squared). Any measurement of wattage in peak power or any other term is a load of rubbish. RMS is the only generally accepted measurement for wattage (electrical power).
I was also impressed with the solid state amp. Speakers ARE the last resonating surface, of course, so having a 4x12 cab doesn't hurt.
You can't be Serious... That thin sound!
Playing both simultaneously provides the best of both worlds!
much more harmonic content on the valve amp
For clean tones, SS can be very clean, but it's also more sterile adding nothing to the over all tone. Tube amps are so loved because they do add harmonics and oddities, or "color", to the tone, which most guitar players love.
The amp becomes an instrument or an added part to the instrument and is not just a method of amplification.
SS is great if you want to amplify a given sound, such as for Hi-fi playback where you want the amp to reproduce with volume what has been given to it.
Difference.
I would like to know on what basis you believe unplugging a guitar lead without going to standby is a problem. Do you really understand what the standby switch is for? I think not.Suggest you look it up. I have never had an amp fail because of this and I got my first valve amp in 1976. In fact that and a few others had no standby switch. Are you also suggesting that switching between two valve amps with an A/B switch requires putting the amp on standby first. difficult mid-song. Chill out.
Thanks! Very useful, especially the EQ graphic. Using that you can really see why the valve has a 'warmer' sound vs the solid state (rounded vs jagged). Both amps sound good IMO, it's just a matter of what kind of sound you want. And more so, sound that is in the 'mix'.
I have to say: I noticed a pretty big difference in the tone of both amps, I tried the same sort of test with my amplifier, a semi-tube 12AX7 based Hartke HA3500, and the tube gave a more rounded, mellow but still pretty bright and crisp tone, and when I swapped top the solid state, it had a bit more bottom end and sounded a little heavier, but driving the solid state side is a pain because it doesn't distort as well as a good old fashioned preamp tube does,,, hence... I use the tube preamp more than the solid state!!
***** I bought the CR120C, 120watt 2x12 combo version, and I was, and still am blown away by it! I have an Orange Rockerverb MKII 50, amazing amplifier, with an Orange PPC4x12 cab, and I've always gigged with those but when I bought the CR120C I found that to be my 'go to' for quite a while, especially on long tours or going abroad for sessions. I've recently just bought a Bogner Helios 100 and even though it's a high quality sounding amp along with the Rockerverb the CR120C still has a place, it's that good! I don't even consider it to be a back up only amplifier.
Orange have nailed it with Solid State, they done the correct thing by modelling it on an existing valve amp, the Rockerverb - which it basically is, only thing it doesn't have in common is valves. I'm glad they didn't follow Fender's, Marshall's or Line 6's approach and installed a load of crap FX features that no one will use. Orange have just stuck to what they do best and built a seriously great workhorse that can be used anywhere.
In this demo the tube sounded better, the more distorted sound from the tube amp aside it does show what people like about a tube amp. It's not only the warmth or the tone (although that is a part of it) but the liveliness or dynamics as it would probably be called officially. Correct me if I'm wrong but solid state builders have been onto trying to get that lively aspect in solid state amps these days though, I don't know if this solid state amp has anything to make it respond more 'tube-like'.
At the end of the day it all about the fingers
Love this video. Sonic and analytical comparisons were awesome. The valve does give that last 5‰ of richness. But I would encourage players to focus on their playing and not get too wrapped around the axle on valve vs SS. There is maintenance and reliability concerns with the valves. So getting 95% of the tone with 0% of the worries may be a great choice when you are up and coming. And if your lucky enough... Get one of each...
happy w what i got
I got my english made marshall valvestate 8100 and that is perfect! SS clean and power and valve preamp lead channel
That model is like a hybrid? That sounds like the best way to go. The Marshall dsl is it ?
BREAKING THE LAW, BREAKING THE LAW
Well....I the amp I use the most is a katana mini. Sounds amazing, great for bedroom recording, doesn't need tube replacements etc. My blues junior has been sitting in my closet for years because for a bedroom guitarist, the tone between tube and transistor is negligible.
You gotta love these knob jockeys that turn their noses up at SS amps... BB king had one of the best tones on the planet, he used a Lab Series L5... yup, you guessed it... its a SS amp..... you gotta love the snobs...or should that be the sheep...lol
I like the richness of the clean tone for valves, and the crunch of the SS with effects.. ;)
I all ways hear people saying there is no difference between solid and tube. There simply is a difference. When played back to back. The actual sound of an amp could be good or bad. I heard loads of crap valve amps and great ones to. The solid state amps are cheap to make so there are a lot of crap ones to catch the new buyer. valve amps are a lot more expensive and people tend to hear the amps before they buy with hard earned cash. So it would be harder to shift crap tube amps. There are good solid state amps that sound good. Then after a few years playing and the ear training that comes with experience people want tubes. there is differences thow. I all ways think just buy what you like and all is well. No need to berate some one for using transistor amps
+spartanworria Obviously those people are tone deaf, mostly inexperienced guitar players.
+spartanworria These solid amps that sound good because they are hibrids. A mix between valve and electric. But I think there is no comparision between the two. I had the chance to use one and valve amps produce a powerful sound. The electric amp produces a weaker sound. If everyone had the chance to pick a valve amp they'll surely do it. But they are far way more expensive.
23igna Sorry but not every one can hear the difference between a valve and transistor amp. Some people are just tone deaf and cannot hear it. They are the same twats that say what guitars are made of makes no difference to.
spartanworria
Yes I know. Jim Marshall said that most of the great American and European Rock bands from the sixties bought their equipment from him. He built 23 amps and sold them in one day. The first amps ever created were, obviously, valve amps. As you said, later they realized the electric amps were cheaper and easier to make. They obviously sound worse but they are convenient for a company that wants to produce equipment on a larger scale and make big amounts of money.
+23igna Nnnnnot necessarily. I own both and will definitely agree valves (short answer) are just better. However there are some killer solid state only amps out there. Orange CR120h comes to mind. Killer. I'd trade my Blackstar tube amp for that amp.
Where people can really hear the difference is picking soft and loud in one measure. On a valve amp you can go so soft you can almost go silent. On solid state it's more like it just there or it's not. Limited dynamic control. Dynamics in music is more musical and professional. I think valve sounds better in general too.
Tune your guitar please
Biggest tell tale is feedback in a tube amp is controllable,Solid state cuts feedback,and some frequencies.You can feel the tubes ringing and swelling with feedback.
if he wouldn't have put the amps into the cabinets then the solid state would have sounded like shit BECAUSE OF THE SPEAKERS not the amp itself. no wonder people hate solid state when companies are cramming the shittiest speakers in the world into their SS combos. if you think your solid state amp is a bad amp, try plugging into or replacing the speaker in your amp. you will be very, very pleased.
You may have a point. I used the 4*12 cabs so both amps had the same speakers for a proper comparison.
The test should be done with the damping on. That option simulates how the valves react to sound and feel.
The best amp i ever heard in my life was s Laney supergroup from 1969, i had one then sold it, guts me to this day that i sold it. It was without any doubt the best amp i have ever heard, the quality was outstanding.
I prefer the tube amp for clean and solid state for distorted
It probably wouldn't make too much of a difference given how the cabs are mic'd, but I feel like I have to point out the the SS is paired with a slanted amp and the tube amp is paired with a straight cab. Slanted cabs have more wood, which COULD make it sound more muddy/warm.
can hear the individual striking better on the valve tube amp better.
great job, nice comparison. I think the sound itself answers alot of questions, too many ppl are tube only crazy even myself. But the SS amp performed well. The settings are the heart of the sound
solid state is muddier
There is a difference in "tone" obviously, with the solid state a lot brighter than the valve, but that's less important, as different amps do sound different and it's down to personal preference which tone sounds better. The important thing to concentrate on here is how dynamic the valve amp is, and by that I mean how the amp reacts to the initial pick attack and how it sounds as the note dies down. The valve amp has a big spike of distortion on the pick attack, and then as the note decays both volume and distortion drops slightly, where as the solid state maintains the same volume and distortion throughout the entire note lifecycle. This makes the solid state sound very flat, and the valve sound bouncy and alive. Another example is when extra notes are added after the base note, the valve amp, distorts more in reaction to the increased input, whereas the solid state adds the notes to the mix but the amount of drive does not change.This is what people mean when they talk about the "feel" of a valve amp. It's not as apparent on youtube clips due to the compression in the recording signal chain, but is quite apparent in person.
valve no question
BREAKING THE LAWWW BREAKING THE LAWWWW!! Nice choice mate
thanks. I like the track and most people know it so handy for a demo.