There's a reason why Shaq is a Top 10 player and chuck and Kenny are no where near his level just shows the level of accountability he brings onto himself. People look for excuses for their failures.
List of Shaq's head coaches Orlando : Brian Hill(considered to be the best coach in franchise history) Lakers : Phil Jackson Heat : Van gundy and Pat riley Suns : Mike D'Antoni Ofcourse he thinks coaching doesn't matter, for most of his prime he had great coaches, only players who have had bad coaches know how frustrating that can be
I agree. I also think Shaq was getting defensive when Chuck said, “How many rings U got before Phil Jackson?” I swear Shaq doesn’t understand the context of half of these conversations before he talks.
There's a reason why Shaq is a Top 10 player and chuck and Kenny are no where near his level just shows the level of accountability he brings onto himself. People look for excuses for their failures.
Phil was a genius precisely because he didn't coach. His entire philosophy was counterintuitive and heavily influenced by Zen Buddhist principles of disattachment which is why he hardly ever forced things and is probably why him and Kobe never really got along.
@@chandleryen7315 Shaq never said that. Barkley said he should’ve called timeout. Shaq was fine with them playing through it like Phil Jackson would. Don’t put words in his mouth.
But Doc Rivers is one of the greatest coaches God ever Created. Last time I remembered, he has a championship!! This coach always delivered when it truly mattered!!
As apposed to how many coaches have coached aslong as doc, as many teams as doc, been in the playoffs as much as doc? " Plenty of NBA coaches who have never won a playoff series let alone a championship, granted doc has had good players, and some great players over the years, but know who gets to coach great players and good teams? Good coaches.
Nick nurse is one of the most creative and smartest coaches the nba has ever seen. He knows exactly what to do with what he has and has proven that forming a culture of hustle will win games. I’ve never seen the raptors not play their heart out on defence.
@@davidchandler6885 to say the raptors don't have talent means they wouldn't be able to come back from 3-0. Toronto has talent, scottie og pascal fred Gary precious thaddeus chris boucher. That's talent.
@@jasonwilliams9307 very low talent compared to who they are playing, lol..why u even arguing lol silly..I want them.to win but talent difference IA huge as everyone knows
Shaq: “Coaching don’t matter” Chuck: “It does matter” Shaq: “Look I’m telling you it don’t matter” Chuck: “Just because you say it don’t matter doesn’t mean it’s true” Thank You Chuck 😂 I hate people who think just because they say something…it’s GOSPEL! Just respectfully agree to disagree, make your point and move tf on
agreed. that said Shaq drives the point home that it doesn't matter cause he doesn't want to give the players any excuses. His mindset is idc who's coaching me i'm going to get it done no matter what.
I think he means offensively, defense is definitely up to coaching, last min plays on offense, scoring isn’t coached, u either have it or u don’t and he’s definitely right about coaching if a team loses a 3-1 lead, that’s on the players
@@bigchillin4216 They understand the sixers need to lose 2 more games. They're focusing on doc being defensive and how important it is to win game 6 vs kenny's, oh 1 more game before we really need to worry
Because Doc has a history of not rallying once the initial plan goes sideways. If you like the “shot not taken” analogy, if you’ve taken a record number of buzzer beaters that rimmed out and you get the ball with 2 seconds on the clock, down 1, that history is in your head.
This Raptors team doesn't win two games without Nick Nurse. His defensive schemes, his willingness to experiment and go all out in certain ways surely plays a major major factor in the playoffs and during the regular season.
Shaq was a legendary player and I think he's a good guy (very charitable), but a lot of his debates are just him talking over the other person and convincing others that he's right because of who he is, not what his thought process is. Whether Chuck is right or wrong, he's always making an attempt to explain his reasoning and doesn't have the aura of "I'm Charles Barkley, agree with me or else!".
@@YoogiNation and you need to adjust when teams target him to the free throw line. And that's what Kenny and Chuck is saying. If Doc sees where his stars are slipping or where their weakness is he should be able to adjust and compensate.
@@YoogiNation that's exactly why Shaq didn't get a Ring before Phil Jackson. Coaching a great player takes more than a game plan, most of the time it's about making sure their egos don't alienate the supporting cast, and checking them when they're arguing with the refs.
But Doc Rivers is one of the greatest coaches God ever Created. Last time I remembered, he has a championship!! This coach always delivered when it truly mattered!!
Phil Jackson in recent years has been so disrespected as a brilliant head coach. Him and Tex Winters used the Triangle System, it was the perfect system to use for over 20 years. Phil wouldn't call timeouts purposely if he saw his team struggling at the beginning, it was a way to show tough love. Like figure it out for yourselves, I've tought you guys already everything you need to know. Coaching Shaq was very difficult, ask any coach who ever coached him. Shaq had a very low basketball IQ, especially on defense. Phil Jackson empowered Shaq by making him the focal point of the Triangle System. Shaq's job was more easily defined then since he was the center of the offense, if they ain't gonna double you, destroy them. If they double you, kick out. Phil Jackson is one of the most intelligent people the NBA has ever had. The Zen Master.
Thank you! Shaq had no idea how much work need to be done for the "big man to dominate". Phil Jackson made it easy for him and he said coaching don't matter.
Except that the Triangle Offense was all on Tex Winters..it's no surprise that he brought back Tex when he took that LAK job..How did that intelligence fared when he was with the Knicks ?... The reality is that Phil coached the best player of all time, and then took a low risk job by coaching a Jordan clone with the most dominant player of all time (Sorry Wilt, Shaq played against better competition..)
You’re too right. The reason Shaq thinks coaching doesn’t matter is because the offense revolves completely around him. If Shaq “didn’t step up” as he would say, the team failed. But that’s just one piece in the team. A large piece, but only large because Phil empowered him.
Coaching does matter and Shaq knows it. What Shaq is arguing is that if you're up 3-1 and you end up losing that series, don't be blaming the coach. Shaq says that it's ultimately up to the players to win. And if the players end up losing a 3-1 lead, the players are the ones who should be taking responsibility and not the coach. Although, I can somewhat understand this sentiment, I do believe it's a full team effort, and that includes the coaches.
valid point, but at some point you gotta wonder why is doc losing all these 3-1 leads. with different teams. is he truly that an unfortunate coach? if so that wont fly so well with the public it just doesnt.
@@roberto9094 Doc might actually have the opposite problem of being too _good_ a coach so that his schemes allow his teams to out-perform their actual skill ceiling in the first few games when he has had the chance to prep. But after the first 4 games, regression to the mean and the opposing team getting used to his schemes mean the stronger team eventually wins. He's basically Hannibal surprising the Romans with elephants coming over the Alps - eventually tactical brilliance still loses to overwhelming strength difference.
for individual talent of the player , coach is the one that give technical direction and basketball soul to the team . absolutely good or great players matters , but coach will tremendously affect on their performing . specially on play of time when it's even up on talent wise , only the coach is the one can bring the victory . cuz if you been beat back to back ,it's sure that opponent has found your weakness . coach have to stop that bleeding . See Nets , maybe they would be swept , but not in this way . Couldn't win one game ? comon .
In fairness the game has changed a lot too-- Embiid doesn't score the majority of his points on iso plays, he's working with the flow of a complex offense and kicking out of double-teams. Any dominant center now works as a delivery system for the zillions of 3-pointers that teams shoot now-- the biggest difference from NBA ball c' 2000.
I love Shaq...but this is a perfect example of how his grasp of basketball is 100% individual and why he revises his career in so many ways, good and bad. My God, he's the perfect example that the coach matters about as much as anything.
Shaq be killing me sometimes. Yea Kenny, you said it perfectly. Why even answer the question, and also yes he’s feeling the pressure or else he wouldn’t have answered
Question was asked, so he did his best to answer. If he refused to answer it, people would read something into that as well. Doc can't win for losing with the media types.
Shaq is partially right. If u up 3-1, you have 3 chances to seal the deal, with minimum, one full day’s rest in between. So, 9 times out of 10 we looking at the players for choking. But if every team u coach blow’s a 3-1 lead, you may consider changing career.😂
Yeah, he's partially right. But coaching definitely matters. Doc has blown 3-1 leads with multiple teams, so majority of it is on him. Like if Doc blew that lead with the Clippers, then gets fired & the Clippers are still blowing 3-1 leads without him as their Coach, then that would make a better case for Shaq's argument.
I don't blame doc Rivers for that series I blame kawhi Leonard and Paul George I blame them for losing that series Paul George was acting like a little girl I'm not going to put all that blame on doc Rivers I'm going to blame that team too doc Rivers is a good coach to me
@@metalsadman he's not overrated if we going to talk about some overrated coaches oh I can I can talk about some but he's not get out of here with that
Shaq dropped the ball on that one. He was an individual great player but he had teammates who were also on the court. Coaching facilitates how successful the team plays as a unit.
The Big Contradiction strikes again..."When the General panicked so does the troops..." is something Shaq used to disparage coaches before...Shaq made sure to get SVG out and Riley to coach...Shaq routinely gave Phil praise for helping him make the main thing the main thing...now coaching doesn't matter?
@King In My Own Mind I agree with you, but maybe Shaq feels some kind of personal guilt for the losses prior to Phil Jackson arriving. He seemed like he was being really critical of his Orlando self. I’m just reaching tho.
players panicking because the coach does is on the players too though means they aren't ready; otherwise they will ignore the coach and do what they do any team in TEAM SPORTS history that loses a 3-0 lead thats on the players
exactly PJ used to gaslight SHAQ with KOBE like....see that dude.....if you had his mentality....you actually would go down as the most dominant ever...and that trickle down alpha mentality economy rubbed off onto shaq. If he really wanted to be the best in the league(kobe) he was putting the work in day by day year by year....in front of shaqs eyes. And if shaq really wanted to RUN the league he had to prove it every night/play so that whole Treat every play like its your last or last chance to show what you got he got that mentality from kobe that PJ nurtured into shaq. Put em out in 3 quarters finish the 4th on the bench that version of shaq was molded by PJ trying to cross some of kobe into shaq. I mean if shaq had more of mj/kobes mentality he would have stayed and stayed in shape and won more rings and TRULY gone down even greater in history than the stones/dust that fell. Which he only now realizes. Imagine a shaq that was in peak shape that had the mind to put the work in every summer that worked with kareem or hakeem when kobe would work out with hakeem....woulda been a monster big and insane enough to put the current shaq in a box.
@@shotsfired2188 Yeah, I don't get it when they say that Kobe carried him on that Lakers 3peat. Just look at the stats of both players and you can clearly see who really carried that team. I'm not saying Kobe didn't do anything, but carried Shaq, really?
@@JCmeister9 Yeah because at that time coaches doesn't allow guards and forwards to shine more than Centers in that era. Just a reminder people missed out on hall of famer type of players just for them to draft centers who they think at that time will save their franchises. Imagine how dumb those people are?
@Canelo "I take Steroids" Alvarez I know stats doesn't tell you everything but they do tell you a lot who did what on the court. So I don't know where you get the I didn't watch the games just because I looked at the stats? Are you telling me that the guy who averaged and scored the most on the team doesn't carry them or you have a different opinion of the word?🤔
I know Shaq likes to talk about personal responsibility and all that, but Ernie got him with that Phil Jackson question. Shaq didn't win anything in Orlando, and he didn't win anything in LA until Phil got there. Coaching matters...it's not the #1 reason a team wins or loses, but it plays a significant part. Otherwise, you could get any guy off the street to coach.
Doc once responded to a question with “would you ask pop that question? You wouldn’t. So give me that same respect, I’ve earned it”. And that should tell you all you need to know about how he sees himself
@@fkyfky0208 But Doc Rivers is one of the greatest coaches God ever Created. Last time I remembered, he has a championship!! This coach always delivered when it truly mattered!!
@@s_ame1135 But Doc Rivers is one of the greatest coaches God ever Created. Last time I remembered, he has a championship!! This coach always delivered when it truly mattered!!
@@s_ame1135 or he just things the media act different with some coaches/players than others. That they say disrespectful stuff to certain guys but not others... Which is true.
What shaq fails to realize is that players have different levels of skill and Basketball IQ. So while certain things were easier for him and Kobe to adapt to because of their unique skillset, other players need the coach to draw up plays and strategies for them to be effective. Similar to how an A+ Math student at school doesn't need the teachers help as much as a student that struggles with Math. Shaq was so dominant for so long that he's forgotten what it's like to be normal/average.
No one is wrong here. Solid arguments from everyone. The reason we love this show(# of comments in such new post proves this)- is because these guys know the game, each other, and they can win us over with a new take/angle. Charles came out winning this argument(impressed me) and prob simply because Kenny and shaq were arguing.
The binary of bus driver vs rider is incredibly dumb to begin with. As Kenny said in that segment the “riders” are playing critical roles too they’re not just sitting there lol
Popovich’s coaching sure made a difference when he implemented the hack a Shaq. Shaq must’ve forgot or stored it away as a repressed memory lol. Coaches make a difference.
Chuck is the realest out there. I love his take on any issues. Also Shaq was misunderstood. He is saying the players deserve the blame for 'choking', it doesn't matter WHO the coach is. Doc just happened to be the one who has multiple blown 3-1 leads
But then he also said that him having Phil Jackson as a coach had nothing to do with him winning a few chips. Shaq was definitely saying that coaching as a whole also didn't matter.
The coaches job is to notice his players chocking then adapt accordingly whether it’s coming up with different plays, experimenting with different lineups, motivation, or taking a guy out when necessary or leaving in a guy that’s making a difference for a little longer. An orchestra might have all the individual talent but without the conductor there’s no sense of direction.
With all due respect the Lakers aint hittin a 3 peat with Del Harris 😂. Phil Jackson brought in the triangle and the rest was history. He also had Pat Riley for his 4th ring. Shaq trippin 😅.
Why is no one seeing this as Doc excusing all of his losses and saying he couldn’t get his players to win without the star. He’s basically saying he can’t win if he’s not carried by his best players. The greatness of a coach is measured when he plays the cards he’s dealt.
Your not listening to what he’s saying, how does the coach get blamed for superstar players not showing up? Coach can’t shoot the ball for you! All them series his lost, he’s stars players weren’t at there best simply put
and yet when they talk about firing doc for d'antoni bc of the background with the 76ers gm and harden....pundits go "what of how much DOC is responsible for EMBIIDS MVP level season does this continue under d'antoni"........then we mention ppl like 40-20 shaq not needing a coach.....when in reality he had penny, kobe, wade,nash,lbj, rondo as his ball handlers essentially the best of his entire career/era. "if dominance means coaching doesnt matter" whos to say playing beside the top 5 ball handlers doesnt mean much either XD
But Doc Rivers is one of the greatest coaches God ever Created. Last time I remembered, he has a championship!! This coach always delivered when it truly mattered!!
Shaq and Mike. The last two Finals MVPs to 3-Peat it. Both had no rings prior to Phil Jackson. MJ, the greatest EVER, has admitted numerous times that Phil's influence helped change the culture of the Bulls. The fact that Shaq can't is bewildering.
Legends on this show right here for sure sad part is one day they won’t all be together because we now are watching them towards the end of there careers. This show goes down in history as all time greatest post game show of all time this is the best
Just like Kenny’s metaphor on having experience is crucial when it comes to talent vs talent, if you have two superstar teams, the team with a better coach in terms of experience, strategy and influence would definitely win, but blowing a 3-1 lead can’t be simply assumed that it would only be the coach’s or the players’ fault. It’s the entire team
I agree. It's not always fair to blame a coach for a team's loss but it also can't be ignored that a great coach can be responsible for a player's overall career success.
I think shaqs right if your up 3-0 and you lose the series it not the the coach but I do disagree that the coach don't matter coaches put you in a situation to win its up to the players to follow through
I love Doc Rivers but I'm scared for him man. I think he's so afraid to lose that he just doesn't stay composed as he should be under pressure. The series is 3-2, and it's already showing how scared he is by how defensive he's getting. I now understand part of what made Phil Jackson so great as a coach, was his Zen and almost hippie-like mellow attitude at times... And Popovich, the second best coach ever, is very dry and military-like. You can't have fear. You can't get defensive. And you can't throw players under the bus as a coach...
when i saw his comments that were trending, i was 100% sure they were from a fake account, trolling. I couldn't believe my eyes when I actually watched the video. It was legitimately sad, hearing him go over his past failures with the insecurity of a KD burner account. At a certain point, he couldn't even defend himself. "Oh yeah, the third 3-1 lead I blew? That was the one where we actually blew it... but it's the bubble guys, I mean, anything can happen in the bubble, amiright?" Like bro every word made him sound worse and worse
Something is up with him mentally. When Philly blew a big lead in an early game this season, after having a whole offseason to stew over last Summer's playoffs, I knew Philly wasn't going the distance. That's just red flag central.
@ThinkMoneyGetMoney ThinkGoldGetGold But Doc Rivers is one of the greatest coaches God ever Created. Last time I remembered, he has a championship!! This coach always delivered when it truly mattered!!
that last part...very true! i feel very bad for ben simmons man! doc literally threw him under the bus. he still struggling to come back and play once more. that is an absolute red flag for a coach
Chuck:”How many championships did you win before Phil?” Shaq:”None.” Chuck:”So then coaching matters?” Shaq:”No it was all me and we would have done it anyways.” The argument at the end was pointless because Shaq just kept bending what he was saying just to not admit he was wrong. 😂
Shaq is funny but he has a 7’1” ego… He always say it’s him who won those championship. His argument is always wrong. He doesn’t even understand Kenny’s point about River’s statement. Denying coach matters when he got swept with a bad coach and won with Phil. I agree coaching matters by watching underdogs. Coaching and gameplan matters like how Pistons beat Lakers with Kobe and Shaq.
The bad part is that he's actually making everyone's point LOL. When you're undermanned COACHING is really important. The fact that he couldn't scheme up 1 pressured victory in a series is the point.
But Doc Rivers is one of the greatest coaches God ever Created. Last time I remembered, he has a championship!! This coach always delivered when it truly mattered!!
You can't throw an 8TH SEED UNDER THE BUS .. THEY FINISHED TRASHED AT #8... THEY BARELY made the playoffs.... They were already ... Under the bus... Lol
I think what Shaq is trying to explain is that when a coach has developed a culture to get the team up 3-1 , it’s up to the players to finish em off. It’s like a ufc trainer doing an excellent camp and has his fighter up 3-1 in championship rounds, if that fighter gets demolished and KO’d in the final round was it really the coaches fault?
I get this point and i usually agree. But when Doc is the only coach in NBA history to be a part of multiple 3-1 blown leads...I think he's an exception not the rule.
That's like Parenting doesn't matter! Coaches do effect the outcome of games by their decision making, be it personnel decisions, play calling and adjustments. What makes the difference is the execution by the players and any counter adjustments by the opposition.
Yeah Kenny was right on the money when he said that the common denominator on those 3-1 losing teams is the coach. If you keep losing with a different team/franchise and the only constant is the coach, you don't really need to think hard what's the problem when it's staring you in the eye like that.
But there's an extent to which a coach can physically impact the game, at least in my opinion. Harden needs to shoot more, and be more aggressive which isn't on Doc Rivers whatsoever, and its why they lost game 4 or 5 (can't remember) as he was simply a pass first point guard the entire game. the 76ers have 2 "at will scorers" in Harden and Embiid so there's no excuse from a talent standpoint, especially when the raptors aren't even playing with some of their best players. I agree with shaq, but also disagree cause we all know coaching matters now to which extent is really up to who you ask.
And the adjustments don't matter if the players don't get it done or have the talent how many rings did phill win without Jordan or Shaq and kobe or how many did pop win before Tim got there I'll wait 🤔
This was great because both sides made great points. 4 different teams losing 3-1 leads, you cant help but look at the coach if it's the same guy coaching all 4 teams. But as a player you cant give up a 3-1 lead
right they barely won some of the game as it was. they needed a comeback in Portland and don't forget how the refs cheated for them to beat Sacramento (this was proven that ref Tim Donahey threw the series to win money in vegas). don't forget Horry's shot. fisher's shot.
Love how Shaq uses one of the greatest coaches decisions to not call a time out and let his players figure it out as an example of a low impact decision haha. That's coaching!
To be fair he was responding to Aristotle's great point of: "no it doesn't". At least while Chuck was shouting it while Ernie and Kenny made real points about why he was right and Shaw was wrong.
How is he not making sense ? If Nick Saban coach Duke Football are they going to the championship every year ? If Steve Kerr or Monty Williams coached the Houston Rockets or Oklahoma City are they making the playoffs.
@@mylilbra1 to answer the Duke question yes. It would take 3 years tops after he arrived before they would win one but yes, the recruits would go still Second question no
@@mylilbra1 It’s a group effort. You need great players and a great coach to win multiple championships. If the Nets had better coaching they wouldn’t have got embarrassed.
But Doc Rivers is one of the greatest coaches God ever Created. Last time I remembered, he has a championship!! This coach always delivered when it truly mattered!!
Shaq can be so annoying to watch sometimes whenever he thinks he's right about something. Let the others speak and hear them out instead of interrupting them. In my opinion, coaching matters bc coaches need to make adjustments if something isn't working out that players might not be able to see themselves. We literally saw how coaching matters in the Nets series; the Nets might have won a game if they actually ran a system but KD and Kyrie were cool with playing iso ball half the time, and the Celtics swept them. That's not all on the players..
Had no issue with Doc giving clarity and reminding selective memory people and reporters shaping narratives. Just disagree with the timing to respond in that way they still up 3-2 . I agree with Kenny on this one. They not on brink of losing on 3-3 or have blown anything or any lead yet . They still leading in series and can close out next game
Doc has the record for a reason.. It's not a coincidence. He is the common denominator on all those teams. But like you said, a coach can NEVER make those comments in that situation. and he completely threw the orlando team under the bus. Context matters but sometimes numbers tell the story. Plenty of coaches have persevered while dealing with lesser talent and injured players. Doc doesn't seem capable of holding 3-1 leads unless he has a team full of top 75 players.
I get what Shaq is saying. When a ball leaves a player's hands, it's not the coach's fault if it doesn't go in the bucket. That being said, the coach does decide what players are in the game, what matchups they create, giving them time to rest or refocus. The coach doesn't determine the outcome, but does contribute toward it. And everyone wants to know if Rivers is negligent in his duties as a coach to positively contribute (like taking out your star players of a game that's already decided, instead of leaving them in to get their face broken).
When the Lakers lost to the Pistons in the 04 finals, trust me the Pistons were a better coached team. Shaq lost to the prime example of good coaching in Larry Brown so his argument holds no weight.
That 2004 Lakers team was the first modern super team too, featuring veteran ring chasers like Karl Malone and Gary Payton. It was so satisfying to see them go down in flames. These days big market superteams are the norm in the NBA, so it has also been satisfying to see one not even making the playoffs (Lakers), and potentially the other two (Sixers, Nets) who traded key players to each other, and maybe both flaming out in the first round!!! And just to add the cherry on top, both the sixers and nets were affected by players who missed time because they won't get the vaccine. Hard to say which one is dumber, Kyrie who refused to get it at all, or Matisse who actually went and got the first shot, but then decided to die on the hill of refusing to get the second shot!!!
@@kevothegoat9891 now imagine a player saying that with today's scrutiny, the media would be having a field day with them. It's another excuse, his team was simply outcoached!
I remember that 03 playoff series with the Magic & Pistons. That Detroit team was one of the worst #1 seeds ever. That Magic team had T-Mac who was the league's leading scorer and 2 guys who made the All-Rookie team. They choked, no question about it.
@@naovoulembrarasenha Right. The next year they hired Larry Brown as coach & traded for Rasheed Wallace at the deadline. THAT is what pushed them over the top. The season that Doc was talking about the Pistons' bench scored more points than the Starters. They were very beatable. He has to wear that.
You clearly don't remember that series at all. (A) This was the first year the first round went from 5 games to 7, which absolutely played a part considering the Magic won 3 games which would've sent them to the 2nd round (B) those two rookies were Drew Gooden and Gordon Giricek, not exactly NBA legends especially considering other people on that rookie team were Amar'e Stoudamire and Manu Ginobili (C) Ben Wallace was out for those first three games, and this series was the coming out party of defensive legend Tayshaun Prince, who shut down a tired T-Mac in games 4-7. Calling it a "choke", especially when it's an 8-seed vs. a 1-seed, is an outlandish take.
@@QuestionEverything562 yeah and the Raptors beat the Sixers with a depleted roster and without their best player. He’s gonna choke like he always does
I have to disagree with you on this one Shaq. Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, Kobe Bryant and Shaq himself without Phil Jackson all have a combined 1 championship. So coaching does matter👀
Shaq is actually right in his core point. I don't believe that Michael Jordan is blowing a 3-1 lead no matter who is coaching. Once you get up 3-1 it's up to the players to finish it off.
And for all the other teams that don't have prime Michael Jordan you wanna make sure you employ a head coach who doesn't go deer-in-the-headlights for 3 games in a row....
"Coaches don't matter. All you need is 1) me, a freakishly big, skilled and athletic center, 2) One of the 2-3 best SG's of all time (Kobe, DWade), 3) Overqualified role players (Horry, Zo, GP, Fisher, White Chocolate, etc.), and 4) a good coach who only contributes to success, and never takes away from it (Phil, Pat)." - Shaq [Yes, I know the fourth part contradicts the initial statement]
„Go look at that Orlando roster.“ He had two hall of fame players in that team. Grant hill (mostly injured) Tmac was in his prime in 2003. Shawn kemp, Horace grant, mike miller…
SHAQ has a good point. At the end of the day, the players are the ones on the court. They have to step up, make big plays, and execute. The coach can scheme as good as he wants, but without the players executing, the scheme don’t matter
Shaq has his opinion. But Chuck spot on. If the coach has four 5 foot 9 inch point guards and 1 center in the game, which is Shaq. And they getting blown out. I'm sure after the game Shaq wouldn't be like it was on me, not the coach
On coaching, the main role of a coach is to see errors and misplays his players can't, and to adjust accordingly. Shaq's point is how he just ran over people going for the rebound or dunk, but he doesn't remember the times where he was stifled and outplayed. During the games where he was neutralized, the coaches had his number.
Doc Rivers and him being a terrific coach and a coach people want to play for after all these years doesn't make sense. He was fortunate enough to win the ring in Boston. But what has he done with the teams he's coached after that? He hasn't won anything after, and most coaches get fired when their teams have high expectations and don't get it done.
1) Someone drives the bus, everyone else rides. 2) Coaching doesn't matter. How about seeing the game (and life) in a NUANCED way? 1) All the players on the team matter. 2) The coach and the players matter.
Shaq is a prime example of somebody so naturally gifted he literally can’t comprehend that other ppl aren’t capable of EVER being as great as he was.
@VD agreed cause he ain't win shii in Orlando
@VD Obviously having Phil is a big deal but not sure why everyone’s ignoring the other guy he also had in LA.
@VD 😂😂😂
Shaq is just ignorant.
@VD Cold hard facts
Kenny's right about doc sounding like he's trying to defend himself before philly actually loses
Hey Doc can at least say I told you so when they lose 😂
Kenny always right!!
Because Doc knows what's going on. He sees the players in practice & already knows the writing on the wall.🤣
@@FirstRoundchampion lol
There's a reason why Shaq is a Top 10 player and chuck and Kenny are no where near his level just shows the level of accountability he brings onto himself. People look for excuses for their failures.
List of Shaq's head coaches
Orlando : Brian Hill(considered to be the best coach in franchise history)
Lakers : Phil Jackson
Heat : Van gundy and Pat riley
Suns : Mike D'Antoni
Ofcourse he thinks coaching doesn't matter, for most of his prime he had great coaches, only players who have had bad coaches know how frustrating that can be
Celtics and Cavs..
@@realstonecuttr9445 there's a button that says "Read more". click it to see that he specifically was talking about shaq's prime
Exactly. Shaq is just a fool.
@@realstonecuttr9445 He said prime foo.
@@vg1024 neither do u or 99% of people in the world. Would u agree that he is not a great of an analyst as he was a player?
The fact that Doc was defensive about the question shows that pressure is getting to him.
Hes weak hes so bro black he married a white female.
I agree. I also think Shaq was getting defensive when Chuck said, “How many rings U got before Phil Jackson?” I swear Shaq doesn’t understand the context of half of these conversations before he talks.
Thanks for reapeting Exactly what we just watched..
There's a reason why Shaq is a Top 10 player and chuck and Kenny are no where near his level just shows the level of accountability he brings onto himself. People look for excuses for their failures.
Let's agree that everyone but Philly fans want to see that comeback happen so we can have more Doc Rivers memes lol
Shaq: "coaching does not matter"
Shaq also: "Phil is the best coach ever, he's a genius"
Shaq: coaching doesn't matter
also Shaq: the coach didn't call time out (in reference to Wolves blowing a 21 point lead in game 3)
Phil was a genius precisely because he didn't coach. His entire philosophy was counterintuitive and heavily influenced by Zen Buddhist principles of disattachment which is why he hardly ever forced things and is probably why him and Kobe never really got along.
🤣🤣🤣
@@chandleryen7315
Shaq never said that. Barkley said he should’ve called timeout.
Shaq was fine with them playing through it like Phil Jackson would. Don’t put words in his mouth.
Hearing Shaq talk sounds like Abbot and Costello's Who's on First bit.
The problem is like Kenny said, he’s been the head coach of a team that’s blown a 3-1 lead THREE times. No one else has even done it twice.
But Doc Rivers is one of the greatest coaches God ever Created. Last time I remembered, he has a championship!! This coach always delivered when it truly mattered!!
Soooo what
Doc gave context, something yah lack
Doc isn't good
As apposed to how many coaches have coached aslong as doc, as many teams as doc, been in the playoffs as much as doc? " Plenty of NBA coaches who have never won a playoff series let alone a championship, granted doc has had good players, and some great players over the years, but know who gets to coach great players and good teams? Good coaches.
Shaq’s a perfect example of why most former great players don’t make great coaches.
This is the most insightful comments here & should have a million likes
You're onto something 🤔🤌🏼
@@shep1582 it should not have any likes. How many coaching championships does Phil have without jordan shaq or kobe.
At least he is entertaining
@@jamesball8519 two.
Nick nurse is one of the most creative and smartest coaches the nba has ever seen. He knows exactly what to do with what he has and has proven that forming a culture of hustle will win games. I’ve never seen the raptors not play their heart out on defence.
U have to when u don't have the talent, prob os when u get talent they got egos so basically no win situation
Erik spoelstra is also a good coach
Its also having Masai who drafts the right players to fit into our defensive hustle curlture
@@davidchandler6885 to say the raptors don't have talent means they wouldn't be able to come back from 3-0. Toronto has talent, scottie og pascal fred Gary precious thaddeus chris boucher. That's talent.
@@jasonwilliams9307 very low talent compared to who they are playing, lol..why u even arguing lol silly..I want them.to win but talent difference IA huge as everyone knows
Shaq: “Coaching don’t matter”
Chuck: “It does matter”
Shaq: “Look I’m telling you it don’t matter”
Chuck: “Just because you say it don’t matter doesn’t mean it’s true”
Thank You Chuck 😂 I hate people who think just because they say something…it’s GOSPEL! Just respectfully agree to disagree, make your point and move tf on
agreed. that said Shaq drives the point home that it doesn't matter cause he doesn't want to give the players any excuses. His mindset is idc who's coaching me i'm going to get it done no matter what.
I guess Phil Jackson doesn’t matter
I think he means offensively, defense is definitely up to coaching, last min plays on offense, scoring isn’t coached, u either have it or u don’t and he’s definitely right about coaching if a team loses a 3-1 lead, that’s on the players
@ThinkMoneyGetMoney ThinkGoldGetGold He won a chip with Coach Riley just shut up or get your facts right
@@jesuchristi. that's after garnering championship experience from.being coached by phil 😂
“Why worry about missing a shot that I haven’t even taken yet?” I definitely understand where Kenny is coming from here
I really don't understand why Shaq and Chuck were being slow and not comprehending him lol
@Bully Maguire Shaq is the youngest one there and Kenny is only a couple years behind Chuck lol
@Bully Maguire roflmao has zero to do with age 🙄
@@bigchillin4216 They understand the sixers need to lose 2 more games. They're focusing on doc being defensive and how important it is to win game 6 vs kenny's, oh 1 more game before we really need to worry
Because Doc has a history of not rallying once the initial plan goes sideways. If you like the “shot not taken” analogy, if you’ve taken a record number of buzzer beaters that rimmed out and you get the ball with 2 seconds on the clock, down 1, that history is in your head.
This Raptors team doesn't win two games without Nick Nurse. His defensive schemes, his willingness to experiment and go all out in certain ways surely plays a major major factor in the playoffs and during the regular season.
Doc is a good coach facts
The Heat won't even get past the 1st round without Coach Spo. Shaq thinks those undrafted players did it by themselves. Lol
Nick Nurse is, arguably, the best coach in the NBA.
He also didn't adjust much in game 2 which is partially why they lost in double digits again
@Andre Webb Stop
Shaq was a legendary player and I think he's a good guy (very charitable), but a lot of his debates are just him talking over the other person and convincing others that he's right because of who he is, not what his thought process is. Whether Chuck is right or wrong, he's always making an attempt to explain his reasoning and doesn't have the aura of "I'm Charles Barkley, agree with me or else!".
Kenny actually make a good point - Shaqs individual greatness was not because of the coach, but Shaq winning WAS 'in part' because of the coach.
I mean it ain’t really hard to coach a guy like Shaq. All u gotta do is dump it down to him and he’ll do the rest.
Doc is a good coach facts
@@YoogiNation and you need to adjust when teams target him to the free throw line.
And that's what Kenny and Chuck is saying. If Doc sees where his stars are slipping or where their weakness is he should be able to adjust and compensate.
The fact that he, Kobe, and MJ all have rings that were coached by Phil Jackson should tell him that coaching matters. That's not a coincidence.
@@YoogiNation that's exactly why Shaq didn't get a Ring before Phil Jackson. Coaching a great player takes more than a game plan, most of the time it's about making sure their egos don't alienate the supporting cast, and checking them when they're arguing with the refs.
Shaq: coaching doesn’t matter!
Chuck: How many rings did you win before Phil Jackson?
Shaq: None
😂🤣😭
But Doc Rivers is one of the greatest coaches God ever Created. Last time I remembered, he has a championship!! This coach always delivered when it truly mattered!!
Shaq also didn't have any rings before Kobe
@@Kilerie Kobe didnt win Either until Shaq..Kobe was # 2 & Shaq was #1during their 3peat
@@Kilerie or Brian Shaw ...
Phil Jackson in recent years has been so disrespected as a brilliant head coach. Him and Tex Winters used the Triangle System, it was the perfect system to use for over 20 years. Phil wouldn't call timeouts purposely if he saw his team struggling at the beginning, it was a way to show tough love. Like figure it out for yourselves, I've tought you guys already everything you need to know. Coaching Shaq was very difficult, ask any coach who ever coached him. Shaq had a very low basketball IQ, especially on defense. Phil Jackson empowered Shaq by making him the focal point of the Triangle System. Shaq's job was more easily defined then since he was the center of the offense, if they ain't gonna double you, destroy them. If they double you, kick out. Phil Jackson is one of the most intelligent people the NBA has ever had. The Zen Master.
Thank you! Shaq had no idea how much work need to be done for the "big man to dominate". Phil Jackson made it easy for him and he said coaching don't matter.
He tried it NY didn't work
Except that the Triangle Offense was all on Tex Winters..it's no surprise that he brought back Tex when he took that LAK job..How did that intelligence fared when he was with the Knicks ?... The reality is that Phil coached the best player of all time, and then took a low risk job by coaching a Jordan clone with the most dominant player of all time (Sorry Wilt, Shaq played against better competition..)
You’re too right. The reason Shaq thinks coaching doesn’t matter is because the offense revolves completely around him. If Shaq “didn’t step up” as he would say, the team failed. But that’s just one piece in the team. A large piece, but only large because Phil empowered him.
Del Harris coached basically the same lakers team prior to Phil. Coaching makes a difference.
Shaq: "Coaching doesn't matters."
Kyrie: "Told you."
While holding his play in banner 😂
Some ldiot "The earth is flat"
Kyrie: "Told you"
🤣🤣🤣
YUP
🤣🤣
The fact that he has 31 close out losses is perfect with 3-1 leads blown
Was he up 3-1 or 3-0 this series?
@@marwaneouad6804 3-0
@@marwaneouad6804 both
@@igorkalezic4739 exactly😂😂
@@igorkalezic4739 thats not how it works. Its 3-0. For it to be 3-1, it has to be 2-1 at one point
Coaching does matter and Shaq knows it.
What Shaq is arguing is that if you're up 3-1 and you end up losing that series, don't be blaming the coach.
Shaq says that it's ultimately up to the players to win. And if the players end up losing a 3-1 lead, the players are the ones who should be taking responsibility and not the coach.
Although, I can somewhat understand this sentiment, I do believe it's a full team effort, and that includes the coaches.
Post this on the top comments
If so, just say don't blame the coach rather than coaching don't matter
valid point, but at some point you gotta wonder why is doc losing all these 3-1 leads. with different teams. is he truly that an unfortunate coach? if so that wont fly so well with the public it just doesnt.
@@roberto9094 Doc might actually have the opposite problem of being too _good_ a coach so that his schemes allow his teams to out-perform their actual skill ceiling in the first few games when he has had the chance to prep. But after the first 4 games, regression to the mean and the opposing team getting used to his schemes mean the stronger team eventually wins.
He's basically Hannibal surprising the Romans with elephants coming over the Alps - eventually tactical brilliance still loses to overwhelming strength difference.
for individual talent of the player , coach is the one that give technical direction and basketball soul to the team . absolutely good or great players matters , but coach will tremendously affect on their performing . specially on play of time when it's even up on talent wise , only the coach is the one can bring the victory . cuz if you been beat back to back ,it's sure that opponent has found your weakness . coach have to stop that bleeding . See Nets , maybe they would be swept , but not in this way . Couldn't win one game ? comon .
One of those instances when Shaq's pride compels him to stand his silly ground.
In fairness the game has changed a lot too-- Embiid doesn't score the majority of his points on iso plays, he's working with the flow of a complex offense and kicking out of double-teams. Any dominant center now works as a delivery system for the zillions of 3-pointers that teams shoot now-- the biggest difference from NBA ball c' 2000.
Shaq literally had 2 of the best coaches ever Phil Jackson and Pat Riley
A coaches job is to put the players in the best situations according to their talent.
Big diesel need a math tutor
Common denomination my guy
Lol
I love Shaq...but this is a perfect example of how his grasp of basketball is 100% individual and why he revises his career in so many ways, good and bad. My God, he's the perfect example that the coach matters about as much as anything.
They matter but players are far more important in the nba look at what pop has done ever since tim and kawai left
Shaq be killing me sometimes. Yea Kenny, you said it perfectly. Why even answer the question, and also yes he’s feeling the pressure or else he wouldn’t have answered
Question was asked, so he did his best to answer. If he refused to answer it, people would read something into that as well. Doc can't win for losing with the media types.
Shaq is partially right. If u up 3-1, you have 3 chances to seal the deal, with minimum, one full day’s rest in between. So, 9 times out of 10 we looking at the players for choking. But if every team u coach blow’s a 3-1 lead, you may consider changing career.😂
wasnt it 3-0 lead. technically you have 4 chances which is worse than blowing up 3-1 lead
He ain't called CHOKE Rivers for nothing, that's all I'm gonna say!🤣🤣🤣
Yea but he not dribbling the ball or putting up shots how you gonna blame someone for it all that’s not even playing lol make it make sense!
He is partially right. Remember they lost in the finals against the pistons, 4-1.
Yeah, he's partially right. But coaching definitely matters. Doc has blown 3-1 leads with multiple teams, so majority of it is on him. Like if Doc blew that lead with the Clippers, then gets fired & the Clippers are still blowing 3-1 leads without him as their Coach, then that would make a better case for Shaq's argument.
Doc: That last one, with the Clippers, that's on me.
Also Doc: It was the Bubble's fault.
I don't blame doc Rivers for that series I blame kawhi Leonard and Paul George I blame them for losing that series Paul George was acting like a little girl I'm not going to put all that blame on doc Rivers I'm going to blame that team too doc Rivers is a good coach to me
@@isiahspencer8724 he's overrated
Lol 😂
@@metalsadman he's not overrated if we going to talk about some overrated coaches oh I can I can talk about some but he's not get out of here with that
@@isiahspencer8724 he’s the most overrated coach in the league. That’s not up for debate.
Shaq dropped the ball on that one. He was an individual great player but he had teammates who were also on the court. Coaching facilitates how successful the team plays as a unit.
The Big Contradiction strikes again..."When the General panicked so does the troops..." is something Shaq used to disparage coaches before...Shaq made sure to get SVG out and Riley to coach...Shaq routinely gave Phil praise for helping him make the main thing the main thing...now coaching doesn't matter?
@King In My Own Mind I agree with you, but maybe Shaq feels some kind of personal guilt for the losses prior to Phil Jackson arriving. He seemed like he was being really critical of his Orlando self. I’m just reaching tho.
players panicking because the coach does is on the players too though
means they aren't ready; otherwise they will ignore the coach and do what they do
any team in TEAM SPORTS history that loses a 3-0 lead thats on the players
exactly PJ used to gaslight SHAQ with KOBE like....see that dude.....if you had his mentality....you actually would go down as the most dominant ever...and that trickle down alpha mentality economy rubbed off onto shaq. If he really wanted to be the best in the league(kobe) he was putting the work in day by day year by year....in front of shaqs eyes. And if shaq really wanted to RUN the league he had to prove it every night/play so that whole Treat every play like its your last or last chance to show what you got he got that mentality from kobe that PJ nurtured into shaq. Put em out in 3 quarters finish the 4th on the bench that version of shaq was molded by PJ trying to cross some of kobe into shaq. I mean if shaq had more of mj/kobes mentality he would have stayed and stayed in shape and won more rings and TRULY gone down even greater in history than the stones/dust that fell. Which he only now realizes. Imagine a shaq that was in peak shape that had the mind to put the work in every summer that worked with kareem or hakeem when kobe would work out with hakeem....woulda been a monster big and insane enough to put the current shaq in a box.
@@SunnyHF-nf4bc Shaq was great in Orlando though so idk what he's got to bee guilty about. The team just wasn't that great.
Shaq's original intention of the coaching was that for a team to lose up 3-1, it's on the players in that case to win one more and not the coach.
Shaq saying, "I'm driving the bus," is really trying to make Kenny cry right now. Lol
@@mgm8075 i’m saying bro 😂 i don’t think they watched those years of basketball. Shaq was unstoppable
@@shotsfired2188 Yeah, I don't get it when they say that Kobe carried him on that Lakers 3peat. Just look at the stats of both players and you can clearly see who really carried that team. I'm not saying Kobe didn't do anything, but carried Shaq, really?
@@JCmeister9 Yeah because at that time coaches doesn't allow guards and forwards to shine more than Centers in that era. Just a reminder people missed out on hall of famer type of players just for them to draft centers who they think at that time will save their franchises. Imagine how dumb those people are?
@Canelo "I take Steroids" Alvarez I know stats doesn't tell you everything but they do tell you a lot who did what on the court. So I don't know where you get the I didn't watch the games just because I looked at the stats? Are you telling me that the guy who averaged and scored the most on the team doesn't carry them or you have a different opinion of the word?🤔
@Canelo "I take Steroids" Alvarez Derek Fisher, Big shot Bob took game winners during that early 2000 run too 🤷♂️
I know Shaq likes to talk about personal responsibility and all that, but Ernie got him with that Phil Jackson question. Shaq didn't win anything in Orlando, and he didn't win anything in LA until Phil got there. Coaching matters...it's not the #1 reason a team wins or loses, but it plays a significant part. Otherwise, you could get any guy off the street to coach.
He prob would have won in orlando but michael jordan exists
But right before Phil Jackson got there they got rid of Eddie Jones (perennial playoff choker) and replaced him with Kobe in the starting lineup
@@gollygeology nah hakeem his dad
Doc once responded to a question with “would you ask pop that question? You wouldn’t. So give me that same respect, I’ve earned it”. And that should tell you all you need to know about how he sees himself
Doc thinks he's on the level of Pop. How delusional. Lol
Whenever someone demand respect, they don't deserve it.
@@fkyfky0208 But Doc Rivers is one of the greatest coaches God ever Created. Last time I remembered, he has a championship!! This coach always delivered when it truly mattered!!
@@s_ame1135 But Doc Rivers is one of the greatest coaches God ever Created. Last time I remembered, he has a championship!! This coach always delivered when it truly mattered!!
@@s_ame1135 or he just things the media act different with some coaches/players than others. That they say disrespectful stuff to certain guys but not others... Which is true.
What shaq fails to realize is that players have different levels of skill and Basketball IQ.
So while certain things were easier for him and Kobe to adapt to because of their unique skillset, other players need the coach to draw up plays and strategies for them to be effective.
Similar to how an A+ Math student at school doesn't need the teachers help as much as a student that struggles with Math.
Shaq was so dominant for so long that he's forgotten what it's like to be normal/average.
Normal don’t deserve rings
@@raheem201231 normal wins rings, that’s why bron isn’t in the playoffs. him and a bunch of scrubs
To be honest basketball is all common sense if you don't have that than your just a bad teammate
@@christheclamper6614 lol it ain’t just common sense at high levels
@@TimDaGoof I don't know man I rather pass the ball to a wide open teammate than trying to create a 3pt shot off the dribble "because your that guy"
No one is wrong here. Solid arguments from everyone. The reason we love this show(# of comments in such new post proves this)- is because these guys know the game, each other, and they can win us over with a new take/angle.
Charles came out winning this argument(impressed me) and prob simply because Kenny and shaq were arguing.
"It didn't matter that you had Phil Jackson as a coach?"
Thank you Ernie
Kenny is on point with this one. Hopefully this is a sign he recovered from the bus riders comment 🤣
He will never recover
Nothing wrong with being a bus rider as long as you contributed
The binary of bus driver vs rider is incredibly dumb to begin with. As Kenny said in that segment the “riders” are playing critical roles too they’re not just sitting there lol
That wasn’t even about him. But he’s spent over a decade acting like he was a pivotal part
mmm, are u sure it was Kenny who made the negative 'bus rider' comment.....? I'm pretty certain Kenny defended Durant in that argument....!
Popovich’s coaching sure made a difference when he implemented the hack a Shaq. Shaq must’ve forgot or stored it away as a repressed memory lol. Coaches make a difference.
Chuck is the realest out there. I love his take on any issues. Also Shaq was misunderstood. He is saying the players deserve the blame for 'choking', it doesn't matter WHO the coach is. Doc just happened to be the one who has multiple blown 3-1 leads
He wasn’t misunderstood - the others just disagreed.
But then he also said that him having Phil Jackson as a coach had nothing to do with him winning a few chips. Shaq was definitely saying that coaching as a whole also didn't matter.
The coaches job is to notice his players chocking then adapt accordingly whether it’s coming up with different plays, experimenting with different lineups, motivation, or taking a guy out when necessary or leaving in a guy that’s making a difference for a little longer.
An orchestra might have all the individual talent but without the conductor there’s no sense of direction.
With all due respect the Lakers aint hittin a 3 peat with Del Harris 😂. Phil Jackson brought in the triangle and the rest was history. He also had Pat Riley for his 4th ring. Shaq trippin 😅.
Yea Phil and Pat definitely made adjustments.
Shaq always talk bs when it comes to coaching, he always said coaching is not important
Same with Phil when he got to the bulls and with Kerr and the Warriors more recently.
@@mcnalga Facts
Yeah he is trippin. he said I don't need Phil Jackson to hold my hand, yeah because that's Phil's coaching style. It matters!. Shaq is a dumb Shrek
Why is no one seeing this as Doc excusing all of his losses and saying he couldn’t get his players to win without the star. He’s basically saying he can’t win if he’s not carried by his best players. The greatness of a coach is measured when he plays the cards he’s dealt.
Shaq could put up 40 & 20 with greatest of ease so of course he doesn’t think coaching matters 😭
He was always great but a great coach is what took his team to the next level
@@datsapaddlin No disrespect to Brian Hall, but he isn't Phil
@@cax1175 nope
Your not listening to what he’s saying, how does the coach get blamed for superstar players not showing up? Coach can’t shoot the ball for you! All them series his lost, he’s stars players weren’t at there best simply put
and yet when they talk about firing doc for d'antoni bc of the background with the 76ers gm and harden....pundits go "what of how much DOC is responsible for EMBIIDS MVP level season does this continue under d'antoni"........then we mention ppl like 40-20 shaq not needing a coach.....when in reality he had penny, kobe, wade,nash,lbj, rondo as his ball handlers essentially the best of his entire career/era. "if dominance means coaching doesnt matter" whos to say playing beside the top 5 ball handlers doesnt mean much either XD
“I dare you to to go back and look at that Orlando roster”
Dang, calling that Magic team a bunch of scrubs that only succeeded because of coaching
Mcgrady was on the team, definitely not a scrub
@@naovoulembrarasenha was the only good player
@@GoldenBoy-sq6yl not really, they had 2 rockies who made the all rockie team. Drew gooden was awesome and Gordan Giriček was a decent 3rd option.
Throwing his players under the bus is on-brand for Doc 😂
But Doc Rivers is one of the greatest coaches God ever Created. Last time I remembered, he has a championship!! This coach always delivered when it truly mattered!!
Shaq and Mike. The last two Finals MVPs to 3-Peat it. Both had no rings prior to Phil Jackson. MJ, the greatest EVER, has admitted numerous times that Phil's influence helped change the culture of the Bulls. The fact that Shaq can't is bewildering.
Legends on this show right here for sure sad part is one day they won’t all be together because we now are watching them towards the end of there careers. This show goes down in history as all time greatest post game show of all time this is the best
Just like Kenny’s metaphor on having experience is crucial when it comes to talent vs talent, if you have two superstar teams, the team with a better coach in terms of experience, strategy and influence would definitely win, but blowing a 3-1 lead can’t be simply assumed that it would only be the coach’s or the players’ fault. It’s the entire team
If you've been in 3 separate house fires, someone's going to wonder how that keeps happening when you're involved... there's a clear pattern
Facts
I agree. It's not always fair to blame a coach for a team's loss but it also can't be ignored that a great coach can be responsible for a player's overall career success.
I think shaqs right if your up 3-0 and you lose the series it not the the coach but I do disagree that the coach don't matter coaches put you in a situation to win its up to the players to follow through
@@kawaiiafangirl not fair to blame the players either
there is no way that shaq has ever been in a healthy relationship with his constant refusal to listen to other people 🤣
I love Doc Rivers but I'm scared for him man. I think he's so afraid to lose that he just doesn't stay composed as he should be under pressure.
The series is 3-2, and it's already showing how scared he is by how defensive he's getting.
I now understand part of what made Phil Jackson so great as a coach, was his Zen and almost hippie-like mellow attitude at times...
And Popovich, the second best coach ever, is very dry and military-like.
You can't have fear. You can't get defensive. And you can't throw players under the bus as a coach...
when i saw his comments that were trending, i was 100% sure they were from a fake account, trolling. I couldn't believe my eyes when I actually watched the video. It was legitimately sad, hearing him go over his past failures with the insecurity of a KD burner account. At a certain point, he couldn't even defend himself. "Oh yeah, the third 3-1 lead I blew? That was the one where we actually blew it... but it's the bubble guys, I mean, anything can happen in the bubble, amiright?" Like bro every word made him sound worse and worse
Something is up with him mentally. When Philly blew a big lead in an early game this season, after having a whole offseason to stew over last Summer's playoffs, I knew Philly wasn't going the distance. That's just red flag central.
@@calebmurphy1361 lol just say you don’t understand what he’s talking about. You sound goofy talking about sadness and disbelief 🤣
@ThinkMoneyGetMoney ThinkGoldGetGold But Doc Rivers is one of the greatest coaches God ever Created. Last time I remembered, he has a championship!! This coach always delivered when it truly mattered!!
that last part...very true! i feel very bad for ben simmons man! doc literally threw him under the bus. he still struggling to come back and play once more. that is an absolute red flag for a coach
If Doc was your coach, Shaq, I don't see you winning 4 rings 😉
Shaq has still that huge ego and condescending way, so he doesn't realize.
ernie's patience is unmatched
Chuck:”How many championships did you win before Phil?”
Shaq:”None.”
Chuck:”So then coaching matters?”
Shaq:”No it was all me and we would have done it anyways.”
The argument at the end was pointless because Shaq just kept bending what he was saying just to not admit he was wrong. 😂
Arguments with Shaq are similar to arguments with girlfriends. Both are a waste of time.
The ego of Shaq is as big as him. Lol
So y’all don’t think Shaq would’ve had won a ring if Phil didn’t coach him? Really?
Shaq won with Riley & Jackson Goat coaches he’s a fool at times.
Shaq is funny but he has a 7’1” ego… He always say it’s him who won those championship. His argument is always wrong. He doesn’t even understand Kenny’s point about River’s statement. Denying coach matters when he got swept with a bad coach and won with Phil. I agree coaching matters by watching underdogs. Coaching and gameplan matters like how Pistons beat Lakers with Kobe and Shaq.
Shaq knows he lost the argument when he doesn’t let the others speak
Surprised he didn't threaten to punch chuck..
@@jasonallen3678 or bring up his 4 rings
The bad part is that he's actually making everyone's point LOL. When you're undermanned COACHING is really important. The fact that he couldn't scheme up 1 pressured victory in a series is the point.
But Doc Rivers is one of the greatest coaches God ever Created. Last time I remembered, he has a championship!! This coach always delivered when it truly mattered!!
Doc going out sad with these excuses.. throwing your former magic players under the bus like that is corny
He’s keeping it a buck you casual, you just commenting from ya moms basement get off ya high horse
Very bro
Yep
T Mac is fuming
You can't throw an 8TH SEED UNDER THE BUS .. THEY FINISHED TRASHED AT #8... THEY BARELY made the playoffs.... They were already ... Under the bus... Lol
Charles is on fire with his analysis lately!
I think what Shaq is trying to explain is that when a coach has developed a culture to get the team up 3-1 , it’s up to the players to finish em off.
It’s like a ufc trainer doing an excellent camp and has his fighter up 3-1 in championship rounds, if that fighter gets demolished and KO’d in the final round was it really the coaches fault?
smart
I get this point and i usually agree.
But when Doc is the only coach in NBA history to be a part of multiple 3-1 blown leads...I think he's an exception not the rule.
That's like Parenting doesn't matter! Coaches do effect the outcome of games by their decision making, be it personnel decisions, play calling and adjustments. What makes the difference is the execution by the players and any counter adjustments by the opposition.
Yep. We just saw Udoka coach the Celtics 4-0 over Nash & 2 all-time scorers.
Shaq is telling the truth because look at the Miami Heat everyone has to step up
@@kingscorpionjohnson6718 you don't think spo is a great coach?
When the same thing happens across multiple teams, the only consistent thing is most likely the cause. In this case it would be the coach.
The common denominator is….Doc
Yeah Kenny was right on the money when he said that the common denominator on those 3-1 losing teams is the coach. If you keep losing with a different team/franchise and the only constant is the coach, you don't really need to think hard what's the problem when it's staring you in the eye like that.
Yep
@@JCmeister9 👍👍
Doc rivers voice sounds like he’s never taken a drop of water in his life
Coaching mattered if you lose up 3-1 or 3-0 all that says adjustments weren't made to win 1 more.
But there's an extent to which a coach can physically impact the game, at least in my opinion. Harden needs to shoot more, and be more aggressive which isn't on Doc Rivers whatsoever, and its why they lost game 4 or 5 (can't remember) as he was simply a pass first point guard the entire game. the 76ers have 2 "at will scorers" in Harden and Embiid so there's no excuse from a talent standpoint, especially when the raptors aren't even playing with some of their best players. I agree with shaq, but also disagree cause we all know coaching matters now to which extent is really up to who you ask.
Jerry west lost 9 times in the finals and nobody remembers the coach don't let that go over your head
@@theprez1278 Bruh that's when the CELTICS WERE JUST BETTER THAN THE WHOLE LEAGUE 😂😂 That's irrelevant in here.
@@DetroitMade you Cleary missing the point bruh nobody mentions jerry west coach lost 9 finals they say west did
And the adjustments don't matter if the players don't get it done or have the talent how many rings did phill win without Jordan or Shaq and kobe or how many did pop win before Tim got there I'll wait 🤔
This playoffs season is so intense that every discussion these guys had gets heated 🤣
This was great because both sides made great points. 4 different teams losing 3-1 leads, you cant help but look at the coach if it's the same guy coaching all 4 teams. But as a player you cant give up a 3-1 lead
Doc Rivers really sounded like a couple of Kevin Durant's multiple personalities in this defensive interview. 🤷🏿♂️
He might consider investing in some burner accounts as well 🤣
🤣🤣😂😂
Yes
I disagree on coaches don't matter. I don't think the Lakers win without Phil Jack as their coach during that time.
I think they could take a ring on talent alone but def. not a 3-peat. Phil Jackson is the goat for a reason.
Shaq and kobe wouldve killed each other
@@assburger323 the Bulls with MJ only became good after Phil Jackson went there
right they barely won some of the game as it was. they needed a comeback in Portland and don't forget how the refs cheated for them to beat Sacramento (this was proven that ref Tim Donahey threw the series to win money in vegas). don't forget Horry's shot. fisher's shot.
Truth is coaches don't matter. Referees do
Definitely reminds me of the "Open Court" episode where the panel was talking about basketball IQ, and Shaq unironically asked: "What's that mean?"
Ever since Jamie Foxx imitated him on Jimmy Fallon, i can't stop hearing him say: it's not on Blake, it's not.
“It’s on all of us” 😂😂😂😂
Shaq is unbelievably stubborn 🤦♂️😆
You can feel kenny’s trying to get them to understand 😂
I absolutely love this show. Priceless discussions with a hint of pettiness to the side. ❤️😘🤣🙏✌️
this was a waste of my 7 mins....not funny and shaq gave really idiotic analysis.
6:46 Even Ernie knows that Shaq is being ridiculous. Lol
If Ernie is rolling his eyes and smacking his head like that, you know you lose the argument. Lol
Love how Shaq uses one of the greatest coaches decisions to not call a time out and let his players figure it out as an example of a low impact decision haha. That's coaching!
I love how chucks debate turned into him repeatedly yelling “coaching does matter” 😂😂😂😂 I can see both sides
Doc is a good coach facts
To be fair he was responding to Aristotle's great point of: "no it doesn't". At least while Chuck was shouting it while Ernie and Kenny made real points about why he was right and Shaw was wrong.
Chuck even tried to agree to disagree but Shaq wasn't buying it lol
Shaq literally makes absolute no sense sometimes and tries to defend his case when he’s literally factually wrong LMAOK
Kids these days hates Shaq
He's crazy stubborn. We laugh at Chuck because he's so goofy but Shaq has the worst takes.
How is he not making sense ? If Nick Saban coach Duke Football are they going to the championship every year ? If Steve Kerr or Monty Williams coached the Houston Rockets or Oklahoma City are they making the playoffs.
@@mylilbra1 to answer the Duke question yes. It would take 3 years tops after he arrived before they would win one but yes, the recruits would go still
Second question no
@@mylilbra1 It’s a group effort. You need great players and a great coach to win multiple championships. If the Nets had better coaching they wouldn’t have got embarrassed.
I love this show, and I love this game 😂 They’re all right; players have to step up, and coach has to help the team make better adjustments 💯
Love that someone acknowledge that it could be both. 👌🏿
@@rkms5606 TOUCHE
But Doc Rivers is one of the greatest coaches God ever Created. Last time I remembered, he has a championship!! This coach always delivered when it truly mattered!!
Chuck and Kenny never disagreed that players don't have to step up. They just disagree about coaching not mattering like Shaq said.
Mans literally is the real life doctor strange without the magical powers 😂
Shaq is absolutely insane, he's really showing who he was and is
He’s always been a idiotic bully; that’s why he and Kobe were never going to get along for an extended period of time.
No wonder Kobe can't stand him on the court. Phil might be drawing up a play and Shaq isn't even following it in the slightest.
no basketball IQ what so ever
Shaq can be so annoying to watch sometimes whenever he thinks he's right about something. Let the others speak and hear them out instead of interrupting them. In my opinion, coaching matters bc coaches need to make adjustments if something isn't working out that players might not be able to see themselves. We literally saw how coaching matters in the Nets series; the Nets might have won a game if they actually ran a system but KD and Kyrie were cool with playing iso ball half the time, and the Celtics swept them. That's not all on the players..
Doc rivers: "come on guys, give me a break, I had Ben Simmons on my team for a good minute."
Fair point
The bus analogy is here to stay 😂😂😂
Haha I love how this group will make an argument out of anything 😂 Kenny always fighting for his life 😂
Had no issue with Doc giving clarity and reminding selective memory people and reporters shaping narratives. Just disagree with the timing to respond in that way they still up 3-2 . I agree with Kenny on this one. They not on brink of losing on 3-3 or have blown anything or any lead yet . They still leading in series and can close out next game
Tru 💯 but u Kno dey are not tho 💯 soo if dey go too a game seven dey blew a 3 -0 lead 😂 not too mention dey will lose game seven on dey court 💯
or the next one after that yup,
Doc has the record for a reason.. It's not a coincidence. He is the common denominator on all those teams. But like you said, a coach can NEVER make those comments in that situation. and he completely threw the orlando team under the bus. Context matters but sometimes numbers tell the story. Plenty of coaches have persevered while dealing with lesser talent and injured players. Doc doesn't seem capable of holding 3-1 leads unless he has a team full of top 75 players.
They can close the game but they better because if raps gets game 6 that's raps series to win
@@jerodtabb311 Raps arent 100 either
Chuck: How many championships did you win before Phil Jackson?
Shaq: None
Chuck: So you think coaching doesn't matter?
Shaq: no
Oh so He only won 3 Championships without Phil Jackson? Interesting. Look up 2006.
@@Kobe24brady12 pat riley was the coach of that team
@@Kobe24brady12 And the coach was Pat Riley who won the last championship with Lakers before Phil Jackson who creates The Showtime
@@Kobe24brady12 Pat Riley
@@Kobe24brady12 They were coached by Pat Riley, another all-time great coach.
Shaq is playing himself.
I get what Shaq is saying. When a ball leaves a player's hands, it's not the coach's fault if it doesn't go in the bucket. That being said, the coach does decide what players are in the game, what matchups they create, giving them time to rest or refocus. The coach doesn't determine the outcome, but does contribute toward it. And everyone wants to know if Rivers is negligent in his duties as a coach to positively contribute (like taking out your star players of a game that's already decided, instead of leaving them in to get their face broken).
When the Lakers lost to the Pistons in the 04 finals, trust me the Pistons were a better coached team. Shaq lost to the prime example of good coaching in Larry Brown so his argument holds no weight.
That 2004 Lakers team was the first modern super team too, featuring veteran ring chasers like Karl Malone and Gary Payton. It was so satisfying to see them go down in flames. These days big market superteams are the norm in the NBA, so it has also been satisfying to see one not even making the playoffs (Lakers), and potentially the other two (Sixers, Nets) who traded key players to each other, and maybe both flaming out in the first round!!! And just to add the cherry on top, both the sixers and nets were affected by players who missed time because they won't get the vaccine. Hard to say which one is dumber, Kyrie who refused to get it at all, or Matisse who actually went and got the first shot, but then decided to die on the hill of refusing to get the second shot!!!
Shaq would tell you only reason they lost because of locker room issues
Even Kobe was awful in that series..
@@kevothegoat9891 now imagine a player saying that with today's scrutiny, the media would be having a field day with them. It's another excuse, his team was simply outcoached!
Aaaand boom
Shaq literally had two of the all time coaches there for his rings
Shaq now " coaching don't matter "
I remember that 03 playoff series with the Magic & Pistons. That Detroit team was one of the worst #1 seeds ever.
That Magic team had T-Mac who was the league's leading scorer and 2 guys who made the All-Rookie team. They choked, no question about it.
And that year Detroit lost 4-0 to the nets, so he is lying about the championship
@@naovoulembrarasenha
Right.
The next year they hired Larry Brown as coach & traded for Rasheed Wallace at the deadline. THAT is what pushed them over the top.
The season that Doc was talking about the Pistons' bench scored more points than the Starters. They were very beatable. He has to wear that.
You clearly don't remember that series at all. (A) This was the first year the first round went from 5 games to 7, which absolutely played a part considering the Magic won 3 games which would've sent them to the 2nd round (B) those two rookies were Drew Gooden and Gordon Giricek, not exactly NBA legends especially considering other people on that rookie team were Amar'e Stoudamire and Manu Ginobili (C) Ben Wallace was out for those first three games, and this series was the coming out party of defensive legend Tayshaun Prince, who shut down a tired T-Mac in games 4-7. Calling it a "choke", especially when it's an 8-seed vs. a 1-seed, is an outlandish take.
Who were these all rookie players ?
I’ve never seen a coach make excuses like that. Whoa.
He’s already trying to justify blowing this series.
He's feeling the pressure big time lol. I love it as a Raptors fan.
@@QuestionEverything562 yeah and the Raptors beat the Sixers with a depleted roster and without their best player.
He’s gonna choke like he always does
I've never seen a coach defend themselves like this.. interesting
They're all correct, its up to the coach to make adjustments but he can only do so much if the players aren't stepping up.
I have to disagree with you on this one Shaq. Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, Kobe Bryant and Shaq himself without Phil Jackson all have a combined 1 championship. So coaching does matter👀
Shaq is actually right in his core point. I don't believe that Michael Jordan is blowing a 3-1 lead no matter who is coaching. Once you get up 3-1 it's up to the players to finish it off.
EXACTLY.
My Conversation Over.
💯
And for all the other teams that don't have prime Michael Jordan you wanna make sure you employ a head coach who doesn't go deer-in-the-headlights for 3 games in a row....
"Coaches don't matter. All you need is 1) me, a freakishly big, skilled and athletic center, 2) One of the 2-3 best SG's of all time (Kobe, DWade), 3) Overqualified role players (Horry, Zo, GP, Fisher, White Chocolate, etc.), and 4) a good coach who only contributes to success, and never takes away from it (Phil, Pat)." - Shaq [Yes, I know the fourth part contradicts the initial statement]
„Go look at that Orlando roster.“
He had two hall of fame players in that team. Grant hill (mostly injured) Tmac was in his prime in 2003. Shawn kemp, Horace grant, mike miller…
@@toxinqwerty they're still experienced players regardless. Doc sounds like he was coaching undrafted players with that statement.
@@toxinqwerty he still wants credit for a series he lost.
I would love to see Shaq in alternative universe without winning championships; I believe his thinking would be totally different
Shaq discrediting phill wow
Imagine Chuck waving around ringz and Shaq being even more petty and insecure about everything.
Doc is a good coach facts
Chuck: "How many rings before Phil Jackson?"
Checkmate.
SHAQ has a good point. At the end of the day, the players are the ones on the court. They have to step up, make big plays, and execute. The coach can scheme as good as he wants, but without the players executing, the scheme don’t matter
Agreed but it seemed to me Shaq was saying he would have won the same number of rings if he literally had no coaching staff at all.
A rare moment of Kenny sounding like a genius
Great discussion 👍 there's clips of Jackson on the Laker bench saying Docs team will fold tho as Boston.
Shaq has his opinion. But Chuck spot on. If the coach has four 5 foot 9 inch point guards and 1 center in the game, which is Shaq. And they getting blown out. I'm sure after the game Shaq wouldn't be like it was on me, not the coach
correct
On coaching, the main role of a coach is to see errors and misplays his players can't, and to adjust accordingly.
Shaq's point is how he just ran over people going for the rebound or dunk, but he doesn't remember the times where he was stifled and outplayed. During the games where he was neutralized, the coaches had his number.
shaq didn't watch the nets games telling they don't need a coach...and nets got swept with 2 of the greatest offensive player of all time
Shaq is a BIG man and he is FULL of himself.
If you were the man you would be too
There's shaq, there's superman & there's shaq diesel; shaq diesel came out in this video 🤣🤣😂😂
Right
Doc Rivers and him being a terrific coach and a coach people want to play for after all these years doesn't make sense. He was fortunate enough to win the ring in Boston. But what has he done with the teams he's coached after that? He hasn't won anything after, and most coaches get fired when their teams have high expectations and don't get it done.
I could have coached that boston team and after that all his teams perfomed way under expectations
And lets be real. That was a superteam that underperformed. I love Celtics but KG and Paul Pierce act like they three-peated or sum crazy
Love that team still and that Big 3. Just saying that they overhype that team themselves so much.
1) Someone drives the bus, everyone else rides.
2) Coaching doesn't matter.
How about seeing the game (and life) in a NUANCED way?
1) All the players on the team matter.
2) The coach and the players matter.
Shaq is right, if you up 3-1, or 3-0 you gotta finish the job. It's not all on the coach.
So y coaches do shoot around walk around and watch film to make sure you make the proper adjustments coaching do matter.