I love the look of those box joints and I love the build of the machine. I don’t think I could ever make that jig with the precision required let alone have two routers. Maybe one day but I really love the look of different size box joints. Very appealing to the eye.
I chucked my original router table last week for space, knowing I could/would eventually make a better one. This is wonderful because I could add a fence and use it as a box jig or a table. As usual, thanks for the endless inspiration. 👊
I love a good jig, they speed up production and improve accuracy, unfortunately I won't own this one, for now, so I will stick with my current setup and continue to make equal sized finger sized boxes, wonderful presentation, and a great teacher, thanks Rob, keep em coming. Martin 🇬🇧
Great detail and even better teaching approach, Rob. Thank-you for all that you have done, on this channel and in your helping vets. With respect to this jig, I guess I know what I'm making as Christmas gifts for my family this year! Thx again.
Aah Rob, you’re killing me mate lol I finally get the courage and finances in line to pay the shipping and exchange rates to finally get myself one of your beautiful dovetail saws, thanks mate, pure knife through warm butter, top shelf excellence, pure joy to use mate, thank you. But Now you show me a way to do it even better and faster without dovetails so I don’t actually need the beautiful saw you sold me? Well lol, I’m still gonna use my beautiful saw and keep making beautiful dovetails, by wow, am already compiling a list of what timber I have and what I need to buy to sort out my own copy of your awesome jig. I think both styles will perfectly suit my wooden hinges that I build with the jig I bought from you many years back and absolutely adore using. Thanks Rob, many years ago you transformed my understanding of truly quality fine box making and by following your teaching, I have had the level of quality, speed and satisfaction go through the roof and am so grateful mate.
What a great jig, thank you for showing how it makes production so much easier. Love the video and the instructions. Thank you for sharing this with us today from Henrico County Virginia
Hi Rob. Brings back memories of BYU and our box production. Guess you advanced from 1 router to 2. I like your adjustment apparatus. Finger jointed boxes are still one of my favorite projects.
Thanks, Rob! An ingenious, but simple, jig! One measurement I didn’t see you comment on (perhaps I missed it?) was the location of the second stop piece.
NIce, if you have a couple of extra routers laying around. Could this be modified so that you just take the jig and turn it around to do the second cut that way only needing one router?
It would be great if you would show a different method for those of us who don't have the luxury of two dedicated routers to build this. Love your work!
I’ve just found this video and am contemplating building the table…..but I already built a router table. So can I make a reversible sled that would work in the same way but use 1 router, changing the bit for a wider one? The answer may be at the bottom of my next beer…
@@chriswoods7452I don’t see why you couldn’t build a box like Rob’s with different pin spacing on either side. However, the challenge of getting it set up correctly would be intense. The distance from the bit to the pin is critical. Perhaps you could build a sliding fence box with removable, sliding faces on both ends of your box. Each face dedicated to one bit. Once you have that distance dialed in perfectly, add a 1/4” sacrificial piece to prevent tear out. That way your adjustment is the sliding fence instead of the router. I hope that makes sense … thinking out loud as it were.
@@chipsterb4946 The pin spacing is actually quite simple. The spacing between the index pin and the inside of router bit #1 is the width of router bit #2. And visa versa. Why? Because the space left uncut between the index pin and the inside router bit forms the fingers. These fingers fit into the slots cut on the adjacent box side using the other router bit. Thus the width of the other router bit is this distance. Set up the router with Bit #1. Position the index finger using Bit #2 sandwiched between the index finger and Bit #1. Repeat swapping bits for the other side. chipster4946, With respect to the miter slots, should the box be rotated 180 deg, or should you just build a longer router table and use the other side, or should you just build 2 separate sleds? Each approach has pros and cons.
When you do a box like this (or any other piece of furniture, for that matter) with contrasting wood materials, do you usually apply the finish after it's assembled - ie, the same finish on the different contrasting woods? Or do you finish the two materials separately, with different finishes, then assemble? (I direct the question to Mr. Cosman, but invite others to weigh in, too.) Thanks.
Great video & jig setup, Rob~! I'm definitely going to have to mirror this setup. I always have family & friends asking me about boxes, and I'd like to start making them as gifts. This will also give me an excuse to pick up the dowel hinge kit~! 😉 Thanks much~!
Did you have trouble with the smaller bit vibrating even when the router is new? I am just a little surprised, as I cut 3/4 box joints all the time, and have no issues. Could it be an old collet that is not gripping it as well? I assume you use a 1/2 shank on even the smaller of the two bits. I definitely have seen issues with using 1/4 shank bits to go through thick, tall cuts in one pass, but with a sharp cutter and my Bosch router, which admittedly is only about 2yrs old, I don't have any vibration issues with 1/4 upcut bits with 1/2in shanks. Maybe when you get to a 3/16in cutter the issues appear. I haven't used one that small before on my box joints. Knowing you guys, and your attention to detail, I am guessing you have considered all of this; but if not, food for thought.
When looking at the sliding tray you pointed out the padauk guide is the pin at one end, but at the end with the 3/8" bit you have a separate pin which was tricky to get right. Why not just have a single piece providing the pin at both ends and mount the router with the 3/8" bit on the other side of the slot?
Re the CA glue: you mentioned that it often leaves a stain on the end grain. How do you mitigate or overcome that? For high-quality pieces like the box you're making, I would think that would be a serious problem. Great job on both the instruction and the videography. Thanks.
Those are beautiful boxes, and I love the use of contrasting woods. Your jig is a great design for production work, and your use of unequal fingers is quite appealing. I've made several 'registration pin' box joint jigs over the years, and I've always found that if you have more than 10 or so fingers the cumulative error in the spacing produces a poor fit. For precision work (lots of small fingers) and irregular finger spacing I much prefer my adaptation of Matthias Wandel's screw advance box joint jig. It's slower than your jig and it's big and clunky, but it's very precise and produces consistent spacing throughout its range. I can easily tweak finger spacing down to 0.001". Thanks for all that you do.
@@VAXHeadroom I replaced the whole gearing assembly with a single wheel fastened directly on the end of the lead screw. I put 64 notches on the perimeter of the wheel (easy enough to do with simple geometry), and a clicky ratchety pawl runs over the notches. One click = 1/64 turn. With a 16 tpi lead screw, 1 click = 1/(16x64)" = 1/1024". Close enough to 0.001" for most purposes. I've never had reason to cut fingers in anything other than 1/8" increments, so I really don't need the complicated gearing that's on the original.
@@VAXHeadroom With the thickness of the router table plus the thickness of the screw advance box joint jig base, you might get chatter with small diameter bits. Rob's jig minimizes that, but he's still cautious about it.
good reason to go buy two more routers. i would think that 2hp would be a good size, 3 seems a little overkill and 1hp a little light. a very precise and easy depth adjustment seems to be important.
This is really amazing! Just one question, does there need to be so much space between the bits? Could you make the top smaller by decreasing the spacing between the routers?
You should have Frick generate plans for all the cool jigs you make as well as the projects and sell those. Digital content is a treasure trove of passive income...
I have found that cyanoacrylate soaks in to wood,especially end grain, and interferes with subsequent oil finishes. At the least I have had darker areas where the cyano has soaked in.
Same here. It seems you need a fair amount of leeway for stock removal with the plane afterwards or else you get those "light spots". I guess that's another reason why Rob likes to cut a little deeper with the router bits
Yes you have to be careful about that. Just a little dab will do you and right on the joint. Then plane or sand the area to remove any soaked in residue
Did it hurt when people couldn't tell the difference? It's like a balance of what you love/prefer doing and what would actually sell. I think it is a good topic to discuss, being an artist and the economy around the craft.
@1:40 you say that both pieces, i.e. the pin and the slot should be the same size. That might actually work if you bond it with CA glue or use mechanical fasteners. If you use titebond or some other glue, typically water-based, when the glue gets on the wood, the wood swells and the joint has to be forced together. It is amazing how many TH-cam Videos that exist with the presenter showing how well the joint fits together dry, but end the video without applying glue on the joint. William Ng is the only person who addresses the difference in pin size (.004 smaller than the slot) and slot size that will actually go together with glue added. I'll be anxious to see what you have to say about this. I absolutely will finish this video because I have great respect for your work. I hope you don't continue to insist on same sizes, or, as seems to be the topic of this video, each size pin must fit into exactly the same size slot. I'm expecting great things from you, Mr. Cosman!
Surveys may very well return opinions that Finger (not "box"?) joints that have same-size fingers are, in fact, preferable to the non-woodworker ! Poll your family, friends and acquaintances (as I once did) and you may determine that the layman prefers each finger to be equal. What scored Big Points with the surveyed folks (10 people) was my use of solid brass inserts up from the bottom and down from the tops of each of the Four corners (on the Rosewood boxes ! Sexy ! (Honest).
Possibly a stupid question, but, if customers do not appreciate hand cut dovetails, why go to the effort and expense of this jig rather buy a router dovetail guide? I don’t like the noise and dust from routers and have only a little 1/4 plunge model, which is pretty useless for most things I might want a router for. So, I don’t know if there is a technical reason a dovetail guide wouldn’t be suitable for small box joinery, of if it was a matter of cost, or 😉 protecting Rob’s reputation for hand cutting dovetails! All the best, and thanks
@@kamleo1685 the Akeda jig also does custom dovetails and box joints, although not quite as custom (spacing must be within 1/8") but in a fraction of the setup time.
I did finger joint because I knew I could produce it faster than a machine cut dovetail, and I just couldn't bring myself to sell machine cut dovetails
@@RobCosmanWoodworking I understand and I appreciate the sharing of your knowledge. Two 3-hp routers versus a Leigh dovetail jig and a 2+ hp router. Are there any savings in equipment costs in the two setups?
It takes me 20' to handcut dovetails each corner with 3 tails. The most annoying part of it is that people don't understand the value of it. They ask me for boxes made of the same species and dislike contrasting colors... So sad..
who can afford to do woodworking anymore. just checked and even poplar is 4 dollar a foot for 5+ inch wide board. used to by an 8 foot board for 8 dollars and even less at lumber yard.
Says the guy who obviously watches and enjoys the free-to-him content. Big price to pay! I pay three wages plus my own time to produce these videos for you and you think asking to "turn on notifications" is too much to ask? You are welcome to remove your comment, I wont.
Have you seen Rob's Wood Hinge Box making video? th-cam.com/video/ogeOPG6-s6Q/w-d-xo.html
Awesome! I love the creativity involved in making the jig even more than the boxes you make with them. And those boxes are beautiful.
I love the look of those box joints and I love the build of the machine. I don’t think I could ever make that jig with the precision required let alone have two routers. Maybe one day but I really love the look of different size box joints. Very appealing to the eye.
I chucked my original router table last week for space, knowing I could/would eventually make a better one.
This is wonderful because I could add a fence and use it as a box jig or a table.
As usual, thanks for the endless inspiration. 👊
I love a good jig, they speed up production and improve accuracy, unfortunately I won't own this one, for now, so I will stick with my current setup and continue to make equal sized finger sized boxes, wonderful presentation, and a great teacher, thanks Rob, keep em coming. Martin 🇬🇧
Your work is second to none may God continue to bless you and your family great work bottom line.
I still prefer doing the boxes with hand cut dovetails!!!! I love building them. Thank you Rob for your instructions!
I will have Luther contact you and show you some new methods
Great detail and even better teaching approach, Rob. Thank-you for all that you have done, on this channel and in your helping vets. With respect to this jig, I guess I know what I'm making as Christmas gifts for my family this year! Thx again.
Hi Rob, great video. What type of bits do you recommend? Spiral? Upcut? Downcut? Thanks
That jig is slick and ingenious. Thank you for sharing. 👍🏻
You bet
Aah Rob, you’re killing me mate lol
I finally get the courage and finances in line to pay the shipping and exchange rates to finally get myself one of your beautiful dovetail saws, thanks mate, pure knife through warm butter, top shelf excellence, pure joy to use mate, thank you.
But Now you show me a way to do it even better and faster without dovetails so I don’t actually need the beautiful saw you sold me?
Well lol, I’m still gonna use my beautiful saw and keep making beautiful dovetails, by wow, am already compiling a list of what timber I have and what I need to buy to sort out my own copy of your awesome jig.
I think both styles will perfectly suit my wooden hinges that I build with the jig I bought from you many years back and absolutely adore using.
Thanks Rob, many years ago you transformed my understanding of truly quality fine box making and by following your teaching, I have had the level of quality, speed and satisfaction go through the roof and am so grateful mate.
Would this jig work for doing dovetails also?
What a great jig, thank you for showing how it makes production so much easier. Love the video and the instructions. Thank you for sharing this with us today from Henrico County Virginia
Hi Rob. Brings back memories of BYU and our box production. Guess you advanced from 1 router to 2. I like your adjustment apparatus. Finger jointed boxes are still one of my favorite projects.
Seems like it was yesterday....
Thanks, Rob! An ingenious, but simple, jig!
One measurement I didn’t see you comment on (perhaps I missed it?) was the location of the second stop piece.
Yes, you missed it, its near the end. Its the width of the 1/4 inch bit away from the bit
That is a clever setup, Rob! I’m going to bookmark this video for a project I have down the road.
glad you liked it
Thanks again Rob
NIce, if you have a couple of extra routers laying around. Could this be modified so that you just take the jig and turn it around to do the second cut that way only needing one router?
It would be great if you would show a different method for those of us who don't have the luxury of two dedicated routers to build this. Love your work!
I’ve just found this video and am contemplating building the table…..but I already built a router table. So can I make a reversible sled that would work in the same way but use 1 router, changing the bit for a wider one?
The answer may be at the bottom of my next beer…
@@chriswoods7452I don’t see why you couldn’t build a box like Rob’s with different pin spacing on either side. However, the challenge of getting it set up correctly would be intense. The distance from the bit to the pin is critical. Perhaps you could build a sliding fence box with removable, sliding faces on both ends of your box. Each face dedicated to one bit. Once you have that distance dialed in perfectly, add a 1/4” sacrificial piece to prevent tear out. That way your adjustment is the sliding fence instead of the router.
I hope that makes sense … thinking out loud as it were.
@@chipsterb4946 The pin spacing is actually quite simple. The spacing between the index pin and the inside of router bit #1 is the width of router bit #2. And visa versa.
Why? Because the space left uncut between the index pin and the inside router bit forms the fingers. These fingers fit into the slots cut on the adjacent box side using the other router bit. Thus the width of the other router bit is this distance.
Set up the router with Bit #1. Position the index finger using Bit #2 sandwiched between the index finger and Bit #1. Repeat swapping bits for the other side.
chipster4946, With respect to the miter slots, should the box be rotated 180 deg, or should you just build a longer router table and use the other side, or should you just build 2 separate sleds? Each approach has pros and cons.
Great idea and execution Rob.
Thanks for commenting
any finish applied to the top?
Rob those are just as nice as any dove tail. Well done. I will have to figure out a jig to do the same for my 1 router table.
Just copy my design
When you do a box like this (or any other piece of furniture, for that matter) with contrasting wood materials, do you usually apply the finish after it's assembled - ie, the same finish on the different contrasting woods? Or do you finish the two materials separately, with different finishes, then assemble? (I direct the question to Mr. Cosman, but invite others to weigh in, too.) Thanks.
Great video & jig setup, Rob~! I'm definitely going to have to mirror this setup. I always have family & friends asking me about boxes, and I'd like to start making them as gifts. This will also give me an excuse to pick up the dowel hinge kit~! 😉 Thanks much~!
As always a very nice result Rob ,could a similar jig get the same result on a table saw and be a little more accessable than using two routers?
Did you have trouble with the smaller bit vibrating even when the router is new? I am just a little surprised, as I cut 3/4 box joints all the time, and have no issues. Could it be an old collet that is not gripping it as well? I assume you use a 1/2 shank on even the smaller of the two bits. I definitely have seen issues with using 1/4 shank bits to go through thick, tall cuts in one pass, but with a sharp cutter and my Bosch router, which admittedly is only about 2yrs old, I don't have any vibration issues with 1/4 upcut bits with 1/2in shanks. Maybe when you get to a 3/16in cutter the issues appear. I haven't used one that small before on my box joints. Knowing you guys, and your attention to detail, I am guessing you have considered all of this; but if not, food for thought.
Yes they are 1/2 inch shanks and the wobble is VERY tiny if you increase the height. I find that's just normal
Does anyone know what magnifying goggles Rob uses? Thanks
It's possible to do this using a dado set on the table saw.
Thank you Rob.
Thanks for commenting
When looking at the sliding tray you pointed out the padauk guide is the pin at one end, but at the end with the 3/8" bit you have a separate pin which was tricky to get right. Why not just have a single piece providing the pin at both ends and mount the router with the 3/8" bit on the other side of the slot?
thank you
Re the CA glue: you mentioned that it often leaves a stain on the end grain. How do you mitigate or overcome that? For high-quality pieces like the box you're making, I would think that would be a serious problem.
Great job on both the instruction and the videography. Thanks.
Those are beautiful boxes, and I love the use of contrasting woods. Your jig is a great design for production work, and your use of unequal fingers is quite appealing.
I've made several 'registration pin' box joint jigs over the years, and I've always found that if you have more than 10 or so fingers the cumulative error in the spacing produces a poor fit. For precision work (lots of small fingers) and irregular finger spacing I much prefer my adaptation of Matthias Wandel's screw advance box joint jig. It's slower than your jig and it's big and clunky, but it's very precise and produces consistent spacing throughout its range. I can easily tweak finger spacing down to 0.001".
Thanks for all that you do.
I'm currently building Matthias' jig - can you share your adaptations?
I had also wondered about running it with a router instead of a tablesaw...no reason I can think of that it wouldn't work...
@@VAXHeadroom I replaced the whole gearing assembly with a single wheel fastened directly on the end of the lead screw. I put 64 notches on the perimeter of the wheel (easy enough to do with simple geometry), and a clicky ratchety pawl runs over the notches. One click = 1/64 turn. With a 16 tpi lead screw, 1 click = 1/(16x64)" = 1/1024". Close enough to 0.001" for most purposes. I've never had reason to cut fingers in anything other than 1/8" increments, so I really don't need the complicated gearing that's on the original.
@@VAXHeadroom With the thickness of the router table plus the thickness of the screw advance box joint jig base, you might get chatter with small diameter bits. Rob's jig minimizes that, but he's still cautious about it.
thanks for watching, I will have to look at Wadels jig again
Rob, great design and I like the looks of the box.
it works great...you should try it
Has anyone ever made a video of this being built?? Or something similar??
Rob,Cosman не устал отрубать ласточкам хвосты 👍👍👍🇹🇷
👍
Brilliant Rob, great reason to buy a couple more routers… as if I need a reason !lol
Exactly!!!!
Real nice setup! Would you use this joint on say the sides of a "tool tote"? Would it be as strong as the dovetail?
when glued, strong as!
good reason to go buy two more routers. i would think that 2hp would be a good size, 3 seems a little overkill and 1hp a little light. a very precise and easy depth adjustment seems to be important.
This is really amazing!
Just one question, does there need to be so much space between the bits? Could you make the top smaller by decreasing the spacing between the routers?
Well yes, but I made mine with full sized routers so they are about as close as there was room to get.
Are the dark end pieces bocote? The grain is really nice!
Do you mean the box end pieces? yes
Nice work! Are you Canadian or American....just curious?
Oh Ca-na-da !
@@RobCosmanWoodworking What's the deal with the American flags?🤔
Great jig, but i just checked and I dont have a couple of extra 3 hp routers collecting dust.😀
Another reason to buy more!!!!
You should have Frick generate plans for all the cool jigs you make as well as the projects and sell those. Digital content is a treasure trove of passive income...
Genius!
Lets just say a good idea
great idea using two routers at the same, time safer if you make a series of boxes
You bet it is
I have found that cyanoacrylate soaks in to wood,especially end grain, and interferes with subsequent oil finishes. At the least I have had darker areas where the cyano has soaked in.
Same here. It seems you need a fair amount of leeway for stock removal with the plane afterwards or else you get those "light spots". I guess that's another reason why Rob likes to cut a little deeper with the router bits
Yes you have to be careful about that. Just a little dab will do you and right on the joint. Then plane or sand the area to remove any soaked in residue
Rob, Please consider turning the jig into one of your products for sale on your website… I would buy one.
This is a tough one, it would take a lot of production time and I would have to figure out how to adapt it to a multitude of different routers
Did it hurt when people couldn't tell the difference? It's like a balance of what you love/prefer doing and what would actually sell. I think it is a good topic to discuss, being an artist and the economy around the craft.
The worst insult is, "I can buy the same thing over at IKEA for a fraction of the cost. Will you accept that price?"
Yes, but I couldn't change that, so I had to just figure out what to do about it. Thus this jig
@1:40 you say that both pieces, i.e. the pin and the slot should be the same size. That might actually work if you bond it with CA glue or use mechanical fasteners. If you use titebond or some other glue, typically water-based, when the glue gets on the wood, the wood swells and the joint has to be forced together. It is amazing how many TH-cam Videos that exist with the presenter showing how well the joint fits together dry, but end the video without applying glue on the joint. William Ng is the only person who addresses the difference in pin size (.004 smaller than the slot) and slot size that will actually go together with glue added. I'll be anxious to see what you have to say about this. I absolutely will finish this video because I have great respect for your work. I hope you don't continue to insist on same sizes, or, as seems to be the topic of this video, each size pin must fit into exactly the same size slot. I'm expecting great things from you, Mr. Cosman!
whats the point of using CA instead of wood glue here
Thanks for posting this. I have never liked the look of box joints. But by making them different sizes gives a whole new look! I must try this
Surveys may very well return opinions that Finger (not "box"?) joints that have same-size fingers are, in fact, preferable to the non-woodworker !
Poll your family, friends and acquaintances (as I once did) and you may determine that the layman prefers each finger to be equal. What scored Big Points with the surveyed folks (10 people) was my use of solid brass inserts up from the bottom and down from the tops of each of the Four corners (on the Rosewood boxes ! Sexy ! (Honest).
@@quidestnunc9238 thats a good point :)
Glad it was helpful! and I concur the spacing makes a big difference
Couldn’t you use a dovetail bit in the router? Sweet jig though.
Yes you could, but then they would look like machine cut dovetails and I did not want that
Possibly a stupid question, but, if customers do not appreciate hand cut dovetails, why go to the effort and expense of this jig rather buy a router dovetail guide?
I don’t like the noise and dust from routers and have only a little 1/4 plunge model, which is pretty useless for most things I might want a router for. So, I don’t know if there is a technical reason a dovetail guide wouldn’t be suitable for small box joinery, of if it was a matter of cost, or 😉 protecting Rob’s reputation for hand cutting dovetails!
All the best, and thanks
Leigh makes a jig with variable spaced pins and tails. It's pricey compared to a DIY jig but you can knock out custom dovetails in short order.
@@kamleo1685 the Akeda jig also does custom dovetails and box joints, although not quite as custom (spacing must be within 1/8") but in a fraction of the setup time.
I did finger joint because I knew I could produce it faster than a machine cut dovetail, and I just couldn't bring myself to sell machine cut dovetails
Completely understandable. I admire the purist side of you Rob.
@@RobCosmanWoodworking I understand and I appreciate the sharing of your knowledge. Two 3-hp routers versus a Leigh dovetail jig and a 2+ hp router. Are there any savings in equipment costs in the two setups?
It takes me 20' to handcut dovetails each corner with 3 tails. The most annoying part of it is that people don't understand the value of it. They ask me for boxes made of the same species and dislike contrasting colors... So sad..
Really! I found just the opposite, they liked the contrasting colors! to each their own I guess.
who can afford to do woodworking anymore. just checked and even poplar is 4 dollar a foot for 5+ inch wide board. used to by an 8 foot board for 8 dollars and even less at lumber yard.
I talked to a young guy waiting for a school bus a few days ago, smoking, cigs are $16 a pack! Wood is Good!
Lastima no comprendo el idioma 😢
If you make the tails and pins even longer it may be easier to avoid getting the glue in the end grain
No, I'm not turning on notifications and I wish TH-camrs would stop asking. It's verrrry old at this point.
Says the guy who obviously watches and enjoys the free-to-him content. Big price to pay! I pay three wages plus my own time to produce these videos for you and you think asking to "turn on notifications" is too much to ask? You are welcome to remove your comment, I wont.
Rob, great design and I like the looks of the box joints.
thanks
Lastima no comprendo el idioma 😢