Excellent project - the best thing is that the least expensive speakers can be improved the most, because they have more build quality compromises. I like the series crossover - if you spend a bit more on the coil (use an 18AWG or a 16AWG), then the bass can be a bit more sensitive and slightly more dynamic. The larger the gauge of the coil wire, the lower its resistance is, and the more energy that gets to the woofer. And the cap quality can also increase the clarity even more. The least expensive way to do this is to add a small value cap like 0.1uF of a high quality cap in parallel with the 8.2uF one. The 5% tolerance on the 8.2uF is 0.41uF so adding a 0.1 is a negligible change in value BUT it has a much lower ESR, so the treble gets considerably cleaner. My go to cap for this is an Audyn Cap Plus, which is $8.31 each on Parts Express, but the Audyn Q4 or the Jantzen Crosscap are $2.39 and $1.92 respectively. This mod is quite good and not expensive. Another cheap mod for these would be to wrap the steel basket struts on the woofers with a sticky "rubber" membrane - slide the piece of membrane inside the strut and then wrap it out and around. This does two things - damps vibration of the driver frame and reduces reflections off the inside that then come out through the woofer cone. Another really cheap mod to tame a bass bump from the port - cut plastic drinking straws to the length of the straight sides of the port, and make a bundle that slide in snuggly inside the port. This doesn't alter the area hardly at all, but it adds friction when the air moves in the port. This effectively adds mass to the air, so a bass bump is reduced AND it will extend the bass slightly lower, too!
@@Douglas_Blake The drinking straws work quite well. It can pull down a bass bump a dB or 2 and extend the bass deeper a couple of Hz. Which can make an important change in room response. In my Elac BS41 mods, it is key. In my room, they are essentially flat to about 42Hz. Polyfil can also be used, but the straws sound better.
Hello Neil, You sound very knowledgeable. I have a 7.1 surround sound room full of Dayton B652 speakers that are about 10 years old. I want to upgrade the crossovers and capacitors because I think they maybe damaged as once I had the wires on wrong. Can you make a video explaining your upgrade configuration ?…..I will feel bad throwing these speakers away and would prefer to fix them.
@@computerenthusiast402 Greetings - you have not damaged the caps by inverting the speaker wires; because music is an AC (alternating current) signal, the electricity flows in both directions all the time. It won't sound right if one/some of the speakers are wired in opposite polarity - the stereo image is "built" by having the correct phase of sound - but it won't damage anything. Having said that, upgrading the crossovers with better parts may improve their sound. Or, redesigning the crossover with a series may well improve them. And the type physical / damping improvements inside the cabinets will certainly help, as well.
Your a inspiration for sound lover's, your builds looking great, looking fresh and solid. I love all you make, your my big crush in sound. Thank's for all!
A small additional tweak that might lower some of the resonances a bit more, would be to wrap the woofer frames with several layers of a thick tape like Gorilla or similar. If you put some of the foam on the inside face of the struts, this would reduce the reflections that come back out through the cone. And I would suggest a larger gauge coil, to get a bit more output from the woofers - larger wire is lower resistance, and so there is lower loss.
Holy cow, you are not incorrect! To me initially the speakers were kinda flat. After placing mdf blocks on the sides and back and an actual crossover network... Wow! I set the tweeters at 0db (I like the brightness). The "new" towers have actual bass without a sub going and the highs are bright and crisp! Thanks!
Love your channel man! I’ve been binging all of your videos! You’ve inspired me to build my own Klipsch Cornwall’s. I’ve always wanted a pair but couldn’t afford paying that much. Now I can!
This was a fun video! Some nice cheap tweaks that probably improved the sound quality a great deal. Another cheap tweak I have done is to drizzle some hot glue on the stamp steel woofer baskets to dampen them and help stop ringing. 👍🏻🔈
Someone is sure to appreciate those. I enjoy your videos and learn from them. Thanks for showing so much detail. From this video I learned a technique for soldering in-series woofers. The plan I am following for my own build will require in-series woofers. I will also try a nail gun as I have seen you do. Thanks!
I did same with same speakers but put a lot better speakers and tweeters with gold binding post they weight about 20# more sound 100%better made a three way 8ohm crossovers
Hello Bernardo, very good video! I have some doubts, I imagine that the towers you built heard better than these, the question is if it is much difference? What do you think of the Eminence brand? I'm thinking about building a soundbar with 4 Eminence Alpha 3-8, What do you think? Best regards
Hey Pedro. It looks like a good fullrange driver. I just bought a pair of 10” eminence but didn’t test it yet. I’d take a look at the Dayton RS100, lower fs, higher Xmax, it sounds pretty good but it will need tweeters. If you plan to use a subwoofer with the eminence I think you are good. Check the soundbar I made here in the channel with Daytons. Plays good low frequency.
@@sonnoradesign Hello Bernardo, I already saw all your videos in fact I plan to base myself on your soundbar, but here those eminence are the ones I got, I plan to use a configuration of 2.1 channels, first the soundbar then in subwofer.
Great Stuff! Love the channel.! One comment about the carpet padding. A lot of that is closed cell foam. From what I read, you want to use open cell foam so you don't change the internal box volume too much.
Hey Donnie. Thanks for the info my friend. I’m this case, making the box a little bigger would help lowering the G3 a little bit, which is good. F3 didn’t change much but bass went up a little (2-3db).
hahaha Frankenstein will bless you for using his name and works,And I must add that I use the Rebound sponge and it works wonderfully It's probably the type, In conclusion, I enjoy seeing your works and the impressive changes, thank you and I probably won't come to hear your works (it's a long distance and it will probably be cheaper to do it at my place) and thanks again for things that are really not obvious
@@sonnoradesign Yes, I built a woofer 12" GRS and the next one will be a tower exactly the one you made the excellent change, I purchased from express parts and it does sound bad
what I did find was the vinyl on the recessed back was removed using heat gun and hole cut for wire and glued on from the outside, rest of walls done from inside.
Having the two woofers running wide open means that starting where the tweeter is phased in, up to the top of their range - there are THREE sources! This is a mess - and that's what you were hearing; among other things. Cabinet resonances also play havoc with the midrange and lower treble. BIG improvement, I'm sure!
@@Douglas_Blake Definitely - avoiding the breakup mode on the woofers is huge *especially* since there are two of them. It would be interesting to try a 3-way series crossover on these, possibly? But that would complicate the tuning, so maybe not.
I find that if I upgrade the tweeter cap from a electrolytic caps to metalized polyester film cap, I usually have to add at least 1ohm resistance. ie: go from a 5ohm resistor to a 6ohm. It compensates for the change in esr between caps.
Right! That happened too and there was probably a comb filtering as well, canceling the highs. It made a big difference with the crossovers. Thanks Paul
Hi I love your builds and actually have plans to do one some day. From a budget stand point and since people pockets are getting leaner would you consider a really budget build like up cycling some of those all in one box home theater or giving life to some old speakers. Thanks keep up the great content and delicious builds.
Hey There! Thanks for watching and for the input. Yes, I’m planing the next videos and I’m trying to find “good deals”. High value low cost options. I know they are out there! Somewhere.
This video was really good and made me subscribe. I happen to have to pair of these that I have been sitting on for a bit due to time or lack of time. Its been a bit since I learned electronics and was wondering if anyone could give more info in the wiring of the components for the cross over?
Hey Penguin. Thanks for watching. Can you read the crossover diagram I posted? I can help if not. I’ll start a series of videos on crossovers cause you are not the only one.
@@sonnoradesign I understand the symbols in the diagram but I am a little confused on the speaker wiring. I am assuming the woofers are going in parallel but then I see the tweeter negative and the woofer positive going to both the cap and the coil.
Okay... a couple of my comments here were deleted... so here's the catch-up... The idea is to dampen the box so that back pressure from the woofers doesn't cause the back and side panels to vibrate. This is best done with a method called "Constrained Layer Damping" (CLD). More details here ... th-cam.com/video/EEh01PX-q9I/w-d-xo.html CLD is not padding... it is an active mechanical damping using a layer of rigid material bonded inside the speaker on a thin layer of silicone rubber. The idea is that when the panel flexes, it creates tension in the rubber that actively pulls the panel back flat... cancelling the vibration. The internal panels can be 1/4" MDF or even 1/8" Hardboard. (don't use cardboard) They do not need to be the same thickness as the cabinet walls. Hardboard will be easier for people who don't have saws and other tools available, it can be cut with a box cutter. The best way to apply CLD is to pre-cut the thin panels as Bernardo did. Then apply an even smooth layer of silicone rubber (I use GE Bathtub Calking) about 1/8th inch (1 mm) thick and simply press it into place making sure there are no air bubbles. Clamping is not needed. You can see the application step here.... th-cam.com/video/EEh01PX-q9I/w-d-xo.html Be aware that thicker is NOT better... using too much rubber will undo the effect. The rubber can take a while to cure so don't be in a hurry... let them sit at least 24 hours before moving on. I've been using this technique since the late 1970s ... trust me, it works. When I do these I don't generally add the extra bracing, as Bernardo did. It can help but it also affects the internal volume of the box. If you get CLD panels on the sides, back and front (between the bottom woofer and port) that will give you plenty of damping effect. I like Bernado's trick with the underpadding. Just be sure it's the shredded rubber kind, not the closed cell plastic, for best results. In the past I've also used those ribbed 1 inch thick acoustic panels that people put on their walls with good success, too. The rest of the magic is from the super-simple crossover. The tweeter, as shipped by Dayton, is wired out of phase... so be careful to correct that when building your crossover. Best of luck with your cheap to champ upgrades! If you have questions post them under this comment and I'll try to answer them for you. P.S. ... I like the term "Frankenspeaker" ... good one Bernardo!
@@rroberts8749 Trust me on this one ... the simple series crossover Roberto showed in the video is going to outperform the OTS crossovers from most places.
Hi Bernardo, thanks a lot for all information, I’m new in this hobby and always I love to build things by myself, with help of this kind of quality of content, I was looking the other videos for CHR building but looks like the speakers are little expensive than this Dayton. Could you help me with the model and reference of this speakers? I’m in Colombia South America and the idea is build a project like this Dayton o better, but not much expensive for me like the CHR.
@@Douglas_Blake Absolutely! Upgrading inexpensive speakers is a very good thing - their potential for improvement is pretty great, because they are built to a lower price point. Sometimes like with this T652 speaker or the SS-CS5 it takes a complete crossover redesign, and other times like the Elac BS41, the stock crossover is well designed, but is built less than ideally. And *any* speaker is improved with additional bracing/damping in the right places.
Good video, I enjoyed it. When I saw you doing this video I was hoping that you also did the B652 Air, but I looked and it appears that you didn't. Anyway, I Liked and Subscribed. Have a good one!
The Air version requires a slightly higher crossover frequency... about 3,500 hz is good ... See the crossover schematic Roberto published in the video... Use a 0.5mh coil and a 6.8uf capacitor. You may have to increase the resistor a bit, depending on taste... 3 or 4 ohms would be good alternative values to try. Best of luck with the project!
Another great video. I have a couple of vintage Celestion C Mk2's bookshelf speakers on my second system that I would like to upgrade to give more bass and separation - they are good already, but could you recommend some alternatives that are reasonably priced? I have thought of some Wharfdale 9.1's but would welcome your help. Thanks.
Hey Jon. Thanks for watching. I’d suggest you watch some reviews on bookshelf speakers. There are a lot of videos on affordable bookshelves like the Elac, KEF, Klipsch, Martin Logan, Emotiva… I had B&W bookshelf speakers before and I really liked it.
I always wondered if you could do this or if you had to build a new enclosure to improve the audio characteristics of speakers like that. Very cool video. Oh, guess I need to say I WANT IT NOW too. ;) Hope you are well sir! - TZ
Hey Tom!! Great. Yea man it works. Constraining Layer Damping. Blake’s idea and it works great. I would be easier to work on an open box but yes, it makes a big difference.
If I remember well you don't use spectral decay in your usual measurements. Which is a pity: any reason for that? On this resonance upgrade, the dampening you added by cross-bracing and adding more mass to sides, there should be serious changes to the spectral decay curve, which did not show on the simpler frequency response curve.
Bernardo, I was thinking of doing the same with a differently formed brace. I am considering gluing an X pattern brace as an alternative. I hope I can do so in a way that the air passage is not effected. I think the X could have some stability advantages. Your thoughts ? Greetings from Colorado
@@sonnoradesign how's this for crazy. I was also thinking, what if you bought a bunch of wood paint stirrers and split one to glue to the other to make an X pattern beam with pieces of paint stirrers on the ends. The real question is would the x shaped beams be substantial enough they had no chance of induced vibration. I just got my pair today. Got them on sale and also restocked open box. 84 after taxes and shipping. I haven't seen any issues yet, and they sound great. We shall see if I can hear the bad resonances. Do you have an estimate of how loud they need to be in order to hear the poor quality. Maybe I have too cheap of ears :). I have plenty of nice speakers to compare them with, so I suppose I am bound to notice something bad eventually. Thanks again for the channel.
@@starker1971 Wood stirrers are a little too flimsy I’d say. You know what? The Constrained Layer Damping is gonna help the most. Reinforcements are good too. If you could use 3/4 MDF pieces then go for it. I wouldn’t use the sticks.
@@sonnoradesign I didn't mean the sticks as bought. Rather, the sticks glued into a formed X beam. It's an addition al X. I would put the beams across, and staggered. This could be done forming an X or box beam out of the sticks.
@Douglas Blake are these different than the ones parts express sells on their website? Those are definitely 4ohm, I just built an open baffle speakers using 10 per side. 2 in an MTM and 8 seriving as woofer duty.
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Update: did your improvements and made my own set. They sound fantastic and I’m using them as my living room tV speakers! Thanks for all your help.
That’s great Parker!! Good to hear!
Excellent project - the best thing is that the least expensive speakers can be improved the most, because they have more build quality compromises. I like the series crossover - if you spend a bit more on the coil (use an 18AWG or a 16AWG), then the bass can be a bit more sensitive and slightly more dynamic. The larger the gauge of the coil wire, the lower its resistance is, and the more energy that gets to the woofer.
And the cap quality can also increase the clarity even more. The least expensive way to do this is to add a small value cap like 0.1uF of a high quality cap in parallel with the 8.2uF one. The 5% tolerance on the 8.2uF is 0.41uF so adding a 0.1 is a negligible change in value BUT it has a much lower ESR, so the treble gets considerably cleaner. My go to cap for this is an Audyn Cap Plus, which is $8.31 each on Parts Express, but the Audyn Q4 or the Jantzen Crosscap are $2.39 and $1.92 respectively. This mod is quite good and not expensive.
Another cheap mod for these would be to wrap the steel basket struts on the woofers with a sticky "rubber" membrane - slide the piece of membrane inside the strut and then wrap it out and around. This does two things - damps vibration of the driver frame and reduces reflections off the inside that then come out through the woofer cone.
Another really cheap mod to tame a bass bump from the port - cut plastic drinking straws to the length of the straight sides of the port, and make a bundle that slide in snuggly inside the port. This doesn't alter the area hardly at all, but it adds friction when the air moves in the port. This effectively adds mass to the air, so a bass bump is reduced AND it will extend the bass slightly lower, too!
@@Douglas_Blake The drinking straws work quite well. It can pull down a bass bump a dB or 2 and extend the bass deeper a couple of Hz. Which can make an important change in room response. In my Elac BS41 mods, it is key. In my room, they are essentially flat to about 42Hz. Polyfil can also be used, but the straws sound better.
@@Douglas_Blake On my Snell Acoustics Type E/II speakers it was a *big* improvement. And the Elac BS41 - any speaker that has a bass bump.
That’s great Neil!! Good to have you guys here! Lot of knowledge.
Hello Neil, You sound very knowledgeable. I have a 7.1 surround sound room full of Dayton B652 speakers that are about 10 years old. I want to upgrade the crossovers and capacitors because I think they maybe damaged as once I had the wires on wrong. Can you make a video explaining your upgrade configuration ?…..I will feel bad throwing these speakers away and would prefer to fix them.
@@computerenthusiast402 Greetings - you have not damaged the caps by inverting the speaker wires; because music is an AC (alternating current) signal, the electricity flows in both directions all the time. It won't sound right if one/some of the speakers are wired in opposite polarity - the stereo image is "built" by having the correct phase of sound - but it won't damage anything.
Having said that, upgrading the crossovers with better parts may improve their sound. Or, redesigning the crossover with a series may well improve them. And the type physical / damping improvements inside the cabinets will certainly help, as well.
Your a inspiration for sound lover's, your builds looking great, looking fresh and solid. I love all you make, your my big crush in sound. Thank's for all!
Thanks!!
A small additional tweak that might lower some of the resonances a bit more, would be to wrap the woofer frames with several layers of a thick tape like Gorilla or similar. If you put some of the foam on the inside face of the struts, this would reduce the reflections that come back out through the cone.
And I would suggest a larger gauge coil, to get a bit more output from the woofers - larger wire is lower resistance, and so there is lower loss.
That’s good info Neil!! Thanks!!
Dude, you're a true artist of woodworking machine tools and soldering irons:) You're doing very good things in a fun way.... big like!
Thanks my friend! I appreciate your feedback!
Holy cow, you are not incorrect! To me initially the speakers were kinda flat. After placing mdf blocks on the sides and back and an actual crossover network... Wow! I set the tweeters at 0db (I like the brightness). The "new" towers have actual bass without a sub going and the highs are bright and crisp! Thanks!
For padding I got a whole roll of R11 fiberglass insulation for $9 and used maybe 2 feet...
Right? It really makes a difference! Such good bang for the buck those speakers!!!
Love your channel man! I’ve been binging all of your videos! You’ve inspired me to build my own Klipsch Cornwall’s. I’ve always wanted a pair but couldn’t afford paying that much. Now I can!
Yeah! Just do it! Those are cool
This was a fun video! Some nice cheap tweaks that probably improved the sound quality a great deal. Another cheap tweak I have done is to drizzle some hot glue on the stamp steel woofer baskets to dampen them and help stop ringing. 👍🏻🔈
Sound good JR. Thanks man!!!
You're one of a kind.
Really love your channel!
Learning while keeping the fun, awesome!
I appreciate that! Thanks for watching.
I WANT IT NOW! That's pretty cool, great video as always Bernardo!
Thanks my friend!!!
Inspired me to buy me a set. Gonna see how it sounds & then do your modifications to get that HIFI! Love your videos
Hey Parker, thanks for watching. Do it. It makes a huge difference! Enjoy the process!
Someone is sure to appreciate those. I enjoy your videos and learn from them. Thanks for showing so much detail. From this video I learned a technique for soldering in-series woofers. The plan I am following for my own build will require in-series woofers. I will also try a nail gun as I have seen you do. Thanks!
Thanks RH. I’m glad you are taking advantage of those videos! 😎
@@sonnoradesign yessir! In fact, here at my house, today is going to be the best day ever because I am building DIY Speakers!
@@RWmHII woohoo!! I love that. Let’s do it man!!
SO GLAD I FOUND U, Always looking to improve speakers, keep it up I will be watching, I don't believe in spending alot for speakers 😊
Hey Clifford! Thanks for watching! I hope you like the next builds. I’ll have some lower budget ones.
Dude you deserve 100,000's of subs... Just discovered your videos and got to say you are just brilliant at this! Keep up the great work :-)
Hey Anthony!! Thanks man! I’m working on it. Hehe. Let’s do it!
thanks so much just got my 652's today going to run sweep and do the same mode you have shown here Thanks
Hey Homer! Thanks for watching!! That sounds good. You gonna like the results.
Nice, simple mods that transformed the speakers from "ho, hum..." to "holy cow!". $130 to $450 for peanuts. Mission accomplished.
Right?!
just found you, am hooked now.. great personality.. thanks for putting it out there..
Hey!! Thanks for watching. More coming soon!
I did same with same speakers but put a lot better speakers and tweeters with gold binding post they weight about 20# more sound 100%better made a three way 8ohm crossovers
That’s a great job man! Probably made the speakers “alive”!!!
I want it now ! Great video. Super mod. I would love to win these Dayton Speakers.
Hello Bernardo, very good video! I have some doubts, I imagine that the towers you built heard better than these, the question is if it is much difference? What do you think of the Eminence brand? I'm thinking about building a soundbar with 4 Eminence Alpha 3-8, What do you think? Best regards
Hey Pedro. It looks like a good fullrange driver. I just bought a pair of 10” eminence but didn’t test it yet. I’d take a look at the Dayton RS100, lower fs, higher Xmax, it sounds pretty good but it will need tweeters. If you plan to use a subwoofer with the eminence I think you are good. Check the soundbar I made here in the channel with Daytons. Plays good low frequency.
@@sonnoradesign Hello Bernardo, I already saw all your videos in fact I plan to base myself on your soundbar, but here those eminence are the ones I got, I plan to use a configuration of 2.1 channels, first the soundbar then in subwofer.
Great Stuff! Love the channel.! One comment about the carpet padding. A lot of that is closed cell foam. From what I read, you want to use open cell foam so you don't change the internal box volume too much.
Hey Donnie. Thanks for the info my friend. I’m this case, making the box a little bigger would help lowering the G3 a little bit, which is good. F3 didn’t change much but bass went up a little (2-3db).
Not foam .... shredded rubber.
Love this dude, always positive and awesome vids!
Thanks for watching Andreas!
very nice but, the two ohm resistor does that go in series with the capacitor?? thanks for your time.
Are you making the crossovers? It goes in series after the crossover capacitor.
Take a look at the diagram when Bernardo pops it up... it goes between the + speaker wire and the Tweeter.
thanks so much all set
hahaha Frankenstein will bless you for using his name and works,And I must add that I use the Rebound sponge and it works wonderfully It's probably the type,
In conclusion, I enjoy seeing your works and the impressive changes, thank you and I probably won't come to hear your works (it's a long distance and it will probably be cheaper to do it at my place) and thanks again for things that are really not obvious
Haha!! Right. Thanks Rony. Did you make your own?
@@sonnoradesign Yes, I built a woofer 12" GRS and the next one will be a tower exactly the one you made the excellent change, I purchased from express parts and it does sound bad
@@rony6482 great! I think you’ll be happy with the results. It’s a good speaker after all the mods.
Hello! Nice video! Did you wire the woofers in series or parallel for this upgrade? Thanks
what I did find was the vinyl on the recessed back was removed using heat gun and hole cut for wire and glued on from the outside, rest of walls done from inside.
Right!!! You never know… thanks for watching.
Having the two woofers running wide open means that starting where the tweeter is phased in, up to the top of their range - there are THREE sources! This is a mess - and that's what you were hearing; among other things. Cabinet resonances also play havoc with the midrange and lower treble.
BIG improvement, I'm sure!
@@Douglas_Blake Definitely - avoiding the breakup mode on the woofers is huge *especially* since there are two of them. It would be interesting to try a 3-way series crossover on these, possibly? But that would complicate the tuning, so maybe not.
Sure Neil. Phase issues for sure. Probably some “Comb Filtering” happening as they were all playing high frequencies.
I find that if I upgrade the tweeter cap from a electrolytic caps to metalized polyester film cap, I usually have to add at least 1ohm resistance. ie: go from a 5ohm resistor to a 6ohm. It compensates for the change in esr between caps.
Right! That happened too and there was probably a comb filtering as well, canceling the highs. It made a big difference with the crossovers. Thanks Paul
@@sonnoradesign Good video, there aren’t many videos like this on YT, will be helpful for many.
Hi I love your builds and actually have plans to do one some day. From a budget stand point and since people pockets are getting leaner would you consider a really budget build like up cycling some of those all in one box home theater or giving life to some old speakers. Thanks keep up the great content and delicious builds.
Hey There! Thanks for watching and for the input. Yes, I’m planing the next videos and I’m trying to find “good deals”. High value low cost options. I know they are out there! Somewhere.
(I WANT IT NOW!) Great video. You make it lots of fun. I do wonder why people aren't using insulation for dampening anymore ??
Thanks for watching Kip. There are several good products for that!
This video was really good and made me subscribe. I happen to have to pair of these that I have been sitting on for a bit due to time or lack of time. Its been a bit since I learned electronics and was wondering if anyone could give more info in the wiring of the components for the cross over?
Hey Penguin. Thanks for watching. Can you read the crossover diagram I posted? I can help if not. I’ll start a series of videos on crossovers cause you are not the only one.
@@sonnoradesign I understand the symbols in the diagram but I am a little confused on the speaker wiring. I am assuming the woofers are going in parallel but then I see the tweeter negative and the woofer positive going to both the cap and the coil.
@@latticelinux hey Penguin!! It’s a series crossover. Just follow the diagram for now. I’ll make videos on crossovers soon!
@@sonnoradesign Thanks. I finished doing this to a few pairs the other day and they sound great.
I WANT IT NOW. Interesting project.
Thanks for watching Cylis.
Okay... a couple of my comments here were deleted... so here's the catch-up...
The idea is to dampen the box so that back pressure from the woofers doesn't cause the back and side panels to vibrate. This is best done with a method called "Constrained Layer Damping" (CLD). More details here ... th-cam.com/video/EEh01PX-q9I/w-d-xo.html
CLD is not padding... it is an active mechanical damping using a layer of rigid material bonded inside the speaker on a thin layer of silicone rubber. The idea is that when the panel flexes, it creates tension in the rubber that actively pulls the panel back flat... cancelling the vibration.
The internal panels can be 1/4" MDF or even 1/8" Hardboard. (don't use cardboard) They do not need to be the same thickness as the cabinet walls. Hardboard will be easier for people who don't have saws and other tools available, it can be cut with a box cutter.
The best way to apply CLD is to pre-cut the thin panels as Bernardo did. Then apply an even smooth layer of silicone rubber (I use GE Bathtub Calking) about 1/8th inch (1 mm) thick and simply press it into place making sure there are no air bubbles. Clamping is not needed.
You can see the application step here.... th-cam.com/video/EEh01PX-q9I/w-d-xo.html
Be aware that thicker is NOT better... using too much rubber will undo the effect.
The rubber can take a while to cure so don't be in a hurry... let them sit at least 24 hours before moving on.
I've been using this technique since the late 1970s ... trust me, it works.
When I do these I don't generally add the extra bracing, as Bernardo did. It can help but it also affects the internal volume of the box. If you get CLD panels on the sides, back and front (between the bottom woofer and port) that will give you plenty of damping effect.
I like Bernado's trick with the underpadding. Just be sure it's the shredded rubber kind, not the closed cell plastic, for best results. In the past I've also used those ribbed 1 inch thick acoustic panels that people put on their walls with good success, too.
The rest of the magic is from the super-simple crossover. The tweeter, as shipped by Dayton, is wired out of phase... so be careful to correct that when building your crossover.
Best of luck with your cheap to champ upgrades!
If you have questions post them under this comment and I'll try to answer them for you.
P.S. ... I like the term "Frankenspeaker" ... good one Bernardo!
@Doony is asking about the air tweeter. Can you help?
Hi again, one more question on this video, did you connect the woofers in serie o parallel on the cross over? Thanks
Hmm I don’t remember but I did maintained the original connection for sure. I’d say series?!
I WANT IT NOW! Great video!
Thanks Jack!
Series XO are very strange for me, very interesting.
Nice job!!!
It’s different but works great! Less components, sounds great!
Tons of information out there about them ... do some searches.
Hey Sonnora Design I have the t652-air with the amt tweeter does it make a difference ? can I do the same crossover you made ?
Hello Hank. So, for the amt tweeter you can use a 0.4 mH coil and a 7.5 uF capacitor. Same schematics.
While I’m ordering, which of those pre-made crossover units Dayton Audio sells would work best for the t652-air with the amt tweeter?
@@rroberts8749
Trust me on this one ... the simple series crossover Roberto showed in the video is going to outperform the OTS crossovers from most places.
@@rroberts8749Douglas is right.
Hi Bernardo, thanks a lot for all information, I’m new in this hobby and always I love to build things by myself, with help of this kind of quality of content, I was looking the other videos for CHR building but looks like the speakers are little expensive than this Dayton. Could you help me with the model and reference of this speakers? I’m in Colombia South America and the idea is build a project like this Dayton o better, but not much expensive for me like the CHR.
Hey Jaibert! Yes my friend I can suggest some equipment, where are you purchasing the drivers? Parts Express or eBay, Ali express?
I just looked and the Dayton Audio T652 speakers are on sale for $120/pr at this moment. With free shipping, even!
@@Douglas_Blake Absolutely! Upgrading inexpensive speakers is a very good thing - their potential for improvement is pretty great, because they are built to a lower price point. Sometimes like with this T652 speaker or the SS-CS5 it takes a complete crossover redesign, and other times like the Elac BS41, the stock crossover is well designed, but is built less than ideally. And *any* speaker is improved with additional bracing/damping in the right places.
Hahah! Right! Let’s go to the woodshop now!
The best Job my bro, you is the number one
Bomba!!!
Good video, I enjoyed it. When I saw you doing this video I was hoping that you also did the B652 Air, but I looked and it appears that you didn't. Anyway, I Liked and Subscribed. Have a good one!
Hey there! Thanks for watching. I didn’t do the air but I guess it works with the same crossovers?! Let’s ask Blake, he worked on those.
The Air version requires a slightly higher crossover frequency... about 3,500 hz is good ... See the crossover schematic Roberto published in the video... Use a 0.5mh coil and a 6.8uf capacitor. You may have to increase the resistor a bit, depending on taste... 3 or 4 ohms would be good alternative values to try.
Best of luck with the project!
@@Douglas_Blake_579 Thank you for your reply, I appreciate your input.
@@doonular
My pleasure.
Does just braising and padding help without the crossover mod?
It’s helps. You will get better bass but still, the crossovers are gonna make the speaker “come to life”. You can always upgrade them later.
Top tinkering.. thanks for the education 😊
Thanks for watching!!!
Another great video. I have a couple of vintage Celestion C Mk2's bookshelf speakers on my second system that I would like to upgrade to give more bass and separation - they are good already, but could you recommend some alternatives that are reasonably priced? I have thought of some Wharfdale 9.1's but would welcome your help. Thanks.
Hey Jon. Thanks for watching. I’d suggest you watch some reviews on bookshelf speakers. There are a lot of videos on affordable bookshelves like the Elac, KEF, Klipsch, Martin Logan, Emotiva… I had B&W bookshelf speakers before and I really liked it.
@@sonnoradesign Thanks for your advice and taking time to reply. I replaced my Celestion 3 Mk2's with some B and W's - very nice.
GREAT video, and solid tutorial.
Thanks Mega!! I really appreciate it!
I WANT IT NOW!
I just ordered a pair of these, hart to refuse at $148!
Right?? Now you need the upgrades hehe!
@@sonnoradesignAlready planning it! What crossover components did you use? Was it 4000hz crossover point? Nevermind I saw it.
I always wondered if you could do this or if you had to build a new enclosure to improve the audio characteristics of speakers like that. Very cool video. Oh, guess I need to say I WANT IT NOW too. ;) Hope you are well sir! - TZ
@Douglas Blake Thanks! I'll take a look and appreciate the reply.
Hey Tom!! Great. Yea man it works. Constraining Layer Damping. Blake’s idea and it works great. I would be easier to work on an open box but yes, it makes a big difference.
If I remember well you don't use spectral decay in your usual measurements. Which is a pity: any reason for that?
On this resonance upgrade, the dampening you added by cross-bracing and adding more mass to sides, there should be serious changes to the spectral decay curve, which did not show on the simpler frequency response curve.
This was fun I wonder if sometime the T652 air bookshelf would make a good upgrade with a crossover design tested and available.. Below👇!
That would be a good one as well! I bet a new crossover and the constrained layer damping get the job done!!
@@sonnoradesign
Yep ... the same crossover for the B652, add CLD to the back and sides and fill it up with loosely packed Polyfill. .
Thank you
I WANT IT NOW
Bernardo, I was thinking of doing the same with a differently formed brace.
I am considering gluing an X pattern brace as an alternative.
I hope I can do so in a way that the air passage is not effected.
I think the X could have some stability advantages. Your thoughts ?
Greetings from Colorado
Hey Kip! You could do an X no problem. The idea is to make the walls more sturdy. Greetings! I love Boulder.
@@sonnoradesign how's this for crazy. I was also thinking, what if you bought a bunch of wood paint stirrers and split one to glue to the other to make an X pattern beam with pieces of paint stirrers on the ends. The real question is would the x shaped beams be substantial enough they had no chance of induced vibration.
I just got my pair today. Got them on sale and also restocked open box. 84 after taxes and shipping. I haven't seen any issues yet, and they sound great. We shall see if I can hear the bad resonances. Do you have an estimate of how loud they need to be in order to hear the poor quality. Maybe I have too cheap of ears :). I have plenty of nice speakers to compare them with, so I suppose I am bound to notice something bad eventually.
Thanks again for the channel.
@@starker1971 Wood stirrers are a little too flimsy I’d say. You know what? The Constrained Layer Damping is gonna help the most. Reinforcements are good too. If you could use 3/4 MDF pieces then go for it. I wouldn’t use the sticks.
@@sonnoradesign I didn't mean the sticks as bought. Rather, the sticks glued into a formed X beam. It's an addition al X. I would put the beams across, and staggered. This could be done forming an X or box beam out of the sticks.
@@starker1971 right. I got it. If they are sturdy enough they might work well.
Will this work with the new set with amt tweeter?
Yes ... use the crossover schematic from the video but substitute a 0.4mh choke and 7.5uf capacitor.
Thanks Doug!!! That’s the crossover designer.
cool
...y gracias!
Thank you for watching!
Change mylar tweeter to soft dome tweeter
It really cleans up. I like soft dome though!!!
Good luck finding one that fits the pre-cut hole.
The woofers are 4ohms each.
@Douglas Blake are these different than the ones parts express sells on their website? Those are definitely 4ohm, I just built an open baffle speakers using 10 per side. 2 in an MTM and 8 seriving as woofer duty.
@Douglas Blake do they sell the 8ohm version?
8 ohms and sounding great now. Have you seen the increase in bass? Thanks guys!
Valeu!!
I AM From India. Can I participate in this giveaway ?
Sorry but no. Thanks for watching.
A manufacturer of speakers can not spend anymore than 10% OF the retail price of the speaker on components and materials.
Most probably not.
Brasileiro?
Sim sim!!!
@@sonnoradesign massa demais! To me inspirando nos seus vídeos para fazer meu primeiro par de speakers, conteúdo top demais!
Valeu meu parceiro!!! Vamos com tudo. Qualquer coisa me chama.
You talk to much we want practice.
Thanks for the input!!
Dudes A joke!!!!
Thanks for the input!! 😎
Teacher Excellent work Successes on your channel
Thanks man! I appreciate it!
Hello.. Excellent Master ..Exitos you Canal ....
Gracias!!
I WANT IT NOW!
I WANT IT NOW!
I WANT IT NOW!
I WANT IT NOW!
I WANT IT NOW!