@667Gullin What? The concept of "Italian", in the sense of a unified people, definitely existed in the middle ages. Both Dante and Petrarca can't seem to stop talking about it
It also isn't as good at later levels in comparison with great weapon master. Unless you make a crit fishing fighter, in which case it may be more effective.
@Cliven Longsight I also saw someone mentioned dual wielding being used in european battle under Lindybeige's video about dual wielding. Can't bother to unroll 5000 comments there and ctrl + F, but it was about either scottish or irish people
Shield, buckler, dagger - it's all dual wielding. Not uncommon for longsworders to struggle more with S&B than just the single arming sword when they first try it.
I practice Arnis, which you mentioned under Filipino martial arts. Drills for two weapon fighting in it often involves one weapon forward for any given time while you move the other into position. During sparring, I often found that if you do that, you end up facing your enemy squarely and end up having to defend your entire front. What I often end up doing is taking up a single weapon stance so I end up looking like a rapier stance except you have two weapons and every time you find an opportunity to switch which foot is in front you swap the hand in front. Less tiring and less area to defend. It does end up like you are fighting with single weapons but the swaps keep you fresh. I've tired out sparring partners this way until they get careless. Doesn't look as flashy as the drills do but everyone I've sparred with always claim it is both annoying to deal with and tiring to defend against. Since it seems to work, I've kept on using it.
The part of martial arts that it's taken me a long time to understand is that even if two things look the same, that doesn't mean they work the same. A lot of 'beginner HEMA' is "stand in this guard, now stand in this guard, now marvel at this cool play that won't work when you try it in sparring". But the part of HEMA that they don't tell you (possibly because it's the hardest thing to be sure about) is that each system is meant to be a way of looking at a fight, of breaking up your and your opponent's actions into defined categories so that you can apply techniques that you know work well in those contexts. Even if two systems have the same response to the same provocation, the way they describe it and the way you're supposed to look at it could be completely different.
That's what I learned when I practiced japanese ju-jutsu as well; the first years you simply learn all the basics (two-ish times training a week). That is, the techniques in stand-alone format. When you get closer to the black belt, you start to "freehand" it at some sessions to learn the various situations you can use the techniques in. Basically, the attacker attacks however he wants and you defend yourself however you want. With 30 or so techniques at hand, you quickly learn which ones are for heritage to the japanese martial art, which ones are actually effective in a real scenario, and which ones are best left to armored combat.
Yup. In fact if you look at mixed HEMA matches using different styles, much like MMA unarmed matches.........the vast differences tend to narrow down to what's actually practical in reality and they all start to blur together. That being said....people need to learn SOME system just as a point of reference for training. You can't really train a skill if you never do the same thing twice. That's the value of various systems. At some point in time there were NO systems of any kind.......and people just made them up.
Having trained in Silver's backsword technique, where you use the true guardant form (E.g. For a right hander, right arm pointing forward, slightly bent and with your blade pointing downwards but slightly forwards towards you left knee and the basket presented to your opponent just above eye level). It's a very effective defence, but takes a long time to master. This is because your arm isn't used to being put in that type of awkward position, it feels counter-intuitive. It takes a while for you muscles to develop so that you can hold the form, you do see most people hold it for a short while then revert to a Stocatta like position or sword lowered pointing at your opponent, arm not quite straight out but more relaxed. It's a more comfortable position and you can hold it for quite a while. However, it invites binding, though is good for the trust if you time it right. Unlike in some techniques where you blades touch and you try to feel your opponents blade to sense their intent. Silver was adamant not to present your blade in this way. Apart from being too "Rapier-ish", it is too easy to bind the blade. So unlike Sabre, and Matt is probably going to tell me I'm wrong, Silver's technique was a more thorough form of martial art in that your sword was just part of the story, as you use your off-hand in an offensive or defensive manner for punching, grappling, or binding your opponent's blade and not forgetting a good kick to the cobs! Basically do anything to win, whilst not being counter-hit. Silver's techniques aren't pretty unlike some to watch, but I think they were effective for the time, especially against a Rapier-ist.
@@scholagladiatoria Bob Salvatore has a new trilogy going back into Zaknafein, Jarlaxle back story...and Zaknafein has been resurrected and is back adventuring with Drizzt. Still good stuff.
That's when I read them as well! I started re-reading them all this year at age 27 and I'm enjoying it a lot. And thanks for all your great content Matt!
If two-weapon fighting is going to be focused on so heavily in cinema and gaming, I wish that the rapier and main gauche combination would be featured more often.
It will never cease to baffle me when another great video is uploaded, articulate, well researched, un-controversial and it still manages to get thumbs down from people. Who are these trolls?
Indeed. I have noticed that pretty much any completely uncontroversial video on any channel still gets minimum 1% down votes. The only time it doesn't happen is very small niche interest channels. You would think this was a niche subject but the channel is now too big for down vote immunity.
my guess would be accidents too. or some kind of mood variations when you just hate everyone around you and, well… I think Matt has a quite low downvote percentage compared to most other channels, actually… anyway, upto 2% downvotes I don't attribute it to the quality of the content or its reception. it's only when it gets higher I start to think about what could be the reasons behind it
@@tbjtbj4786 where I'm from, the grocery stores that sell rabbit are required to leave the feet and tail on the carcass to show that it isn't a dead cat being sold. Apparently, they both look very alike with no skin. So, I guess cats are at least as tasty as rabbits. Idk personally. Never had either one. Lol
@@sandeman1776 people that sell racoons here do the same thing with the feet. Well if it taste like rabbit it's good. Rabbit one of my favorite wild foods.
historically in that situation, you'd see such soldiers with one long weapon like a montante that can keep multiple attackers at range while leaving minimal openings. unless two attackers are standing directly in front of you, you aren't swinging both arms out in opposite directions with two swords and leaving your center entirely exposed.
by that daft logic there would only be 1 unarmed martial art in the world, thanks for making the most obvious banal point in an extremely interesting way, great video
10:15 Matt, why are we skinning cats?! is that an English expression? totally took me aback to hear this. I laughed for too long Anyhow, love this video. thank you for consistently giving high quality videos!
@@VideoMask93 It's commonly used in the UK. It's not something you'd have opportunity to say every day, but it's used. I hear it less in Merseyside than Yorkshire, though, so I think it depends on where you live and what sort of company you keep.
Dual wielding being supposedly bad is one of those HEMA myths along "straight swords cut as good as curved ones", "spear always beats swords" (as if shields didn't exists) etc. It was very common in duels, and alot of people in our times who sparrs says that it's one of best combos possible. I feel that being scared of called "weaboo" is one of a reasons that more people don't giving it a chance
It's a style that had to be learned, usually after one has learned to use one sword. Consequently, dual wielding is an advanced technique, whatever style or weapons used. You have to learn another set of skills, and that takes time and practice.
If someone is a master of that style they are as dangerous as any master of martial art is. I guess it's unpopularity is because of high threshold of competence. It takes lots of practice and experience to be good at that and someone using less complex method is gaining competence faster. Two-weapon fighting in numbers: 1, 2, 3, 4..until master at ten Single weapon fighting: 1, 3, 5, 8, 8,...until master at ten
The sword style Musashi taught was dual-wielding - actually slightly shorter katana. The reason he did not dual-wield was that he never found the need to do so - he felt he was that good. Perhaps he was.
The actual style is Hyoho Niten Ichi-ryu. He didn't only taught use of the daisho, but single sword, short sword, two swords, quarterstaff, jujutsu and truncheon (from which he allegedly developped his use of the two swords incidentally, nothing to do with portuguese - japanese were known to wield the daisho at least a hundred years before 1543, see TSKSR for instance). He taught all these as a complete coherent system. By the time you are learning two swords, you should mostly be applying the stuff you have learned in the previous parts of the curriculum rather than getting new concepts, it's only for techniques wise. The core of HNIR isn't dual wielding but a specific way of moving and the use of timing, especially what's referred to as "sen no sen". It's a myopic view to think that Musashi taught "dual-wielding". Also he most certainly did used two swords during the end of his fighting against the Yoshioka family. Musashi must have been a talented fencer, he came from a family of fencers and teachers, his style had several off-shots and managed to survive right up until the modern world which is no small feat considering only something like 1 in 8 schools or so did in the Meiji era. His style was also represented in the early Tokyo Metropolitan Police. He was a famed master, but in his time he certainly was only one amonst many, after more than a century of intense fighting, people skilled with a blade wasn't a thing the country was in any sort of shortage.
@El Bearsidente sword and dagger aka katana and wakizashi likely date back further than the portuguese contact and also, two katana were probably used together as some point before Musashi, because remember what Matt says, he invented a style and founded a school, not really the idea of dual wielding
Yeah if you actually read Musashis book, he makes a much bigger point out of being able to just use one katana one handed effectively (which isn't that easy TBH) than he does dual-wielding.
It's like saying dutch kickboxing, muay thai, lethwei, karate, sanshou, and hapkido are all the same. The claim borders on being outright insulting, due to how reductionist it is.
Well, when you put a practitioner of any of these arts into a competition with the same rule set (MMA competition for example) there is convergence in the fighting styles. The most effective techniques come to the fore. The reason why styles look different across the globe are normally due to the limits of the associated competition style.
Son: " I go to battle with two swords!" Dad: "why?" Son: "because I am a warriour and will bring glory to our family!" Dad: "how?" Son: "i can deal more damage, fight and kill two persons at once!" Dad: "stupid son, you will bring nothing to our family but misery. Never go to battle without a shield!"
Right, most combatants would tend to strike with one sword and use the other to block incoming blows. I think it'd be hard for our brains to coordinate simultaneous attacks with a sword in each hand. Wielding a shield is easier to handle, can block blows, and also be used as a weapon in it's own right.
Hi Matt, i like your content a lot. Great work. May i ask you something? Can you mix two "styles/systems" together in a personal style or do you need to stick to one "moveset"?
Fighting with a rapier or smallsword in one hand and main gauche in the other was a technique. The main gauche was mostly used defensively to intercept an opponent's attacks but could be used to attack given opportunity.
Musashi Miaymoto, perhaps the most famous Japanese swordsman, author of The Book of Five Rings, was also quite famous for his dual-wielding technique. Ref: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niten_Ichi-ry%C5%AB Many Chinese kung-fu forms use dual-wielding, with swords, hammers, axes, even dual-wielding sharp-edged shields. Butterfly swords in particular are almost always used as a pair.
In my experience it's the person who varies more than the sword system. There's nuance in how each tool wants to be used, but with biomechanics varying more than sword patterns. A saber will want to be used like a saber but a 6ft 280lbs man and a 5'3" 120lbs man will use the same saber differently. The fundamentals are the same in all styles since they are based on biped humanoid with sharp stick(s) kenjutsu has so much that is identical to german and italian longsword but executed with more subtlety due to historically sharper and harder edges and a slight variations for single edged blades. But grain of salt for my experience. I've been being trained and training in martial arts since I could walk, so that's 25 years of training, and i can pick up most weapons now get a feel for how it wants to move and where it exists in space. So I may have internalized the nuances by this point.
Thanks for this and your feedback about my post on the Facebook page, Matt :) I forwarded it on to my student, too. I'd love to get your opinion about interpretive martial arts, like the Byzantine paired Paramerion interpretations that were posted. How accurate are they? How much we should worry about it? And also some of the dangers of it.
Here's an idea. Having all these systems using similar tools to achieve similar ends stemming from the same base (i.e. the various stropospheres of human joints), but diverging due to their numerous *contexts*, reminds me of linguistics. If we think of one system as Latinate, another as Germanic, another as Hindustani etc., couldn't we arrive at a 'Proto-sword technique' as a distillation of what is essential and universal? It's very much Bruce Lee's philosophy, but from another perspective. Matt seems to be spotting all the twigs here without acknowledging that there's a trunk there. I won't deny anything he says here, but there's an awful lot of 'absolutely, not at all' that makes the historian in me fidget somewhat.
Win94ae Rapier and Parrying Dagger is a well documented historical weapon set, primarily in civilian use. The French called the dagger Main Gauche (left hand in French) but there is a large variation in form. The archetypal French Main Gauche is particularly long with fairy stout hand protection.
Dual wielders get the Tripple AAA treatment -Awesome to look at -Automatically very skilled -Assured to give any opponent one hell of a fight Not only that they're few enough to signify not only the amount of work but sheer lunacy to even think you can do it competently but the ones that make it are in an elite category of their own Anyone who says otherwise have their visor on too high and need a good lesson from a hard, stiff Halberd shaft
Here in Spain the rapier+dagger(or a simply but very sharp knife) was the traditional thing in the past. Even sometimes the rapier stopped the enemy hit and the non-dominant hand did the job. We usually used knifes and short weapons to kill the people xD
Dual wielding was more common in history than you might think. It depends heavily on the type of sword in your dominant hand and what weapon is in your off hand. Rapier and dager became a very meta combo in duels amount those who could afford them. I would even consider sword and shield to be a form of dual wield almost. The reason so many chose a shield over a second weapon was because a shield is much better on the battlefield while second weapon shine more in one on one duels. Miyamoto musashi also argued to those who claimed duel wielding wasn't practical that it was a skill problem rather than a practicality problem.
Krabi krabong- thaught at many muay thai camps in Thailand( tiger muay thai camp in Phuket for example) it is thai swordsmanship and teaches dual weilding including sparing......just dont expect the flash protective pads and clothing used in hema. You start with dual wielding canes then move on to metal swords and sparing.
The obvious answer to the title is 'no' but it's totally worth hearing Mr Easton detail how they differ. Do you have any thoughts on the differences in different schools of rapier and thrusting swords used across the world? edit after watching further in: Amazing, you mad lad you read my mind.(I could still stand to hear a whole video of you talking about though, it if you ever felt the urge)
Thank you, thank you for this. Hopefully I can get a few knotheaded friends who think, why study it's all the same. Maybe this will help see the reality,.
I’ve always thought it’d be strong to duelwield a trailer and saber but use them interdependently at different times, maybe this some duelwield techniques as a mix up but I’m assuming the different balances wouldn’t be optimal for that.
I’m learning kali right now and being almost ambidextrous I’m loving duelweilding. If I were to pick up hema/fencing does anyone know what rapier and saber style might be good for my idea I feel like it’d be close to espada and daga from kali. I’d train rapier left handed and saber right, my leg muscle inserts allows me to lunge farther left handed
I would tell that even two people of same style, practices and everything they will still end with different styles based on preferences. Once I saw a video of two swordsmen who practices kendo, one of them likes attacking the wrist and his opponent liked to attack the head. I am not telling that every attack will go to the opponents wrist or head but most of the attacks will; because that was their individual style. Not only in swordsmanship but everything. For example: Even identical twins might not have the same word choices when speaking. So it's based on individual preference.
historical source materials? does he mean like older editions of the rulebooks? cuz they were really stingy about allowing dual-wielding. whereas now practically anyone can do it with any pair of one-handed weapons. but you still only get as many attacks per round as your fighter level allows, unless your GM says otherwise. but in that case that means that monsters and npcs can do it too, so watch out.
Lol. Classic question and classic answer (in any area, professional or not). Q: is X better at Y than Z? A: It is complex. Lesson to be learned. Never ask if something is better. Maybe ask: Q: What are the differences between X and Z when Y. A: I will have to do a video about that...
The best penetrating thing will always be that with a sharper point, stiffer blade/shaft, applied with more energy. If you want to penetrate the Earth for example, use a mining drill. For penetrating armour, you choose a weapon specialised for penetrating armour.
It looks cool as heck but man I can tell you from messing around with it in sword class it is totally great if what you're into is getting in your own way.
“Before I learned the art, a punch was just a punch, and a kick, just a kick. After I learned the art, a punch was no longer a punch, a kick, no longer a kick. Now that I understand the art, a punch is just a punch and a kick is just a kick.” -- Bruce Lee Despite there being a lot of differences due to culture/style/preference/tactics/context as you've pointed out, there will be A LOT of universally common aspects due to the limitations of the human body and the laws of physics.
As for in media, there was a videogame where the main character dual wielded short swords and a veteran character (whom used a longsword, I believe) called him out for not having legit reasons for it other than it looking cool.
If I were in a life or death duel and we both were wielding two swords, I think I'd throw one of my swords at my opponent then strike him while he's attempting to dodge. Without a shield it would be difficult to block missile weapons.
If that's the approach, just use a dagger. No debole to get found by the other guy's sword, less strenuous, not likely to have your weapons bound together, and you have a spike in your hand in case they decide to be dumb and get in close.
It is an executioners style, assymetrical warfare style, or human hunters style and not a pitched duel or battle style. Dual weilding is the practice of creating a metaphorical two blade liontamers stool used to confuse and entrap an opponent who is perhaps more skilled or physically stronger but is momentarily less well armed ...it is also the cold blooded indescriminate processing of enemy soldiers like brush to be cleared like cobwebs from the path in front with a pair machetes...dual weilding is for hit and run attacks and indoor space clearing and not for extended face to face kicking range kendo matches.
I would be curious to see the sources for the use of two katana/long swords simultaneously. It's only skimmed over briefly, just a single sentence in the video but still... Now there's something a little bit curious which is that there is a style that teaches dual-wielding of short swords against long sword, Tendo-ryu.
Are there historical sources for skinning a cat with two swords? You're absolutely right. Krabi-Krabong, for instance, looks nothing at all like Nito-Ryu Kenjutsu.
And now don't anyone go out there and point fingers indiscriminately at any odd fantasy movie that has dual-wielding in it. Just because it's overrepresented doesn't mean that's necessarily a bad thing. If you feel straw-manned at this point, feel free to skip the next section. Hear me out, fantasy and movies/fiction in general are usually about the unusual, for several reasons: fantasy and sci-fi have it at the core of their genres because the unusual has appeal in itself, but many other genres use it to explore what humans do and should do in circumstances that are not easy. Anyway, this means that having a person that is unusual or unusually skilled is more common in fiction than in real life, statistically speaking. So as long as fiction that tries to use realism as a way to appeal makes it clear that a person dual-wielding is something unusual, this should not be a problem. I think a great example is Ser Arthur Dayne in the GoT show, regardless of what you think of the choreography of the fight scene, it makes it seem like a pretty exotic way of fighting.
It might be something that a person would use because they have poor eyesight. When I was in a production of *Romeo and Juliet* in college the actor playing Benvolio could not play at rapier and dagger because no matter how much he rehearsed the fight he could not see his partner's blade well enough to make the dagger parries. Ultimately the fight choreographer set him up with a case of rapiers and with those he could manage.
Here's one question I've thought about, for dual wielding, what if you used a thrust oriented sword and a cut oriented sword? Something like a Rapier or Side sword that's more point on and meant for thrusting in one hand and a Saber or messer or basket hilt in the other that's mean more of cuts with the cutting edge? And I'm just wondering in general, not so much from an historical view since a lot of cases point to the same or very similar swords.
There seem to be a lot of illustrations of 1 on 1 duels. Most of the stills in this video are of 1 on 1 duels. This could be a gimmick used by a challenged party in a duel against a superior opponent who isn't familiar with dual wielding techniques.
Yeah, and I'm guessing a lot of dual-wielding in those situations is motivated by either 1) I'm so awesome I can dual-wield (so it's partly an intimidation tactic) or 2) the current situation doesn't let me carry a shield or buckler but I do have a second weapon so I'm using it as a hard defensive object. Or possibly a combination of both.
I doubt it. It would gimp you more than it would someone more used to fighting in general. I'd say the pictures are mostly about skilled swordsmen doing a performance-type fight with a fancy and uncommon weapon combination. Godinho's twin swords on the other hand is all about self-defense (or guarding a VIP) against many opponents, less about winning a fight per-ce and more about preventing numerous opponents from getting close enough to harm you. He also mentions people choosing to carry two swords as their main implement of defense, so I'd wager a guess that dual-wielding was more common in the Iberian peninsula than in the rest of the Europe. Kali with its undeniable Spanish influence also suggests that. Manciolino's twin-swords assault is in my opinion simply an evolution of his school's sword and dagger for students able to handle two long weapons, it works similarly but with two swords of equal length you can work all of the techniques from either side.
It could also be a gimmick to sell more treatises/classes, a way of saying, "If you learn from me, you too can learn how dual wield and be a badass, just like me". After all, the authors of these treatises weren't writing them just for the sake of doing so or to pass on down to posterity, they were doing so to make a name for themselves and/or to make money from selling these treatises or lessons from them. So what better way to promote yourself than to include special or "secret" techniques that you can learn only from this particular master?
They are depictions in Asia of Persian, Japanese Chinese and Thai going into battle with two sword, sometimes two mace or truncheon (rarely axe). It is equally seen from horseback as on foot. Sadly now only Korea and Japan have paired sword manuscript, but that is likely to do with Thailand lacking a lot in terms of writing books. Let's talk about Thailand also, they seem to historically be the most connected with dual wielding, with one king making it its specifically. Still to this day Krabi krabong (sword and stick) as well as its Burmese, lao and Cambodian relative are huge martial art putting large emphasis on dual wielding which can also be seen on some art pieces produced by them in the past, yet they are always out of this discussion
@@digitaljanus Or dual wield is just one of best combos possible if fencer is skilled. That's what people who doing alot of sparrings often says. "Dual wield is bad" is one of those european HEMA myths along with "straight swords cut as good as curved", "spear is better than sword and shield", etc
This is actually what Matt did when he got his right hand injured. He won a tournament match with his left hand because he trained it & his opponent wasnt used to dealing with lefties. Anything is a skill. I think that Matt also knows a dual wielder that does great in tournaments, its just that there are very few that try that hard to get good with 2 swords but its possible.
if you watch mma there's a shit ton of ways you can win a fight and mma has been new last 200 years or so at most... before gunpowder there were probably a billion martial arts with swords and weapons
Humans that are ambidextrous are a fact of human life, therefore ambidextrous humans will use both their hands in their fighting skills and training. The most amusing ambidextrous are baseball players that can switch their stance.
Being ambidextrous has little to do with dual wielding, you can learn to be ambidextrous. The problem with dual wielding 2 weapons is that the human brain is not adept at performing different uncoordinated complex tasks at the same time. For example, thrusting with both left and right at the same time, towards the same target feels fairly natural. Cutting downwards with your left while thrusting at someones mid section with the right feels awkward. Our brains are just not wired to perform two different tasks like that at the same time. This is the same reason why there is those things like pat your head and rub your stomache, two relatively simple tasks that can leave people muddled when trying to do them at the same time. To test this just pretend you are dual wielding and start shadow fighting. You will quickly find the natural tendency is to attack with one hand then attack with the other, defend with one hand, then attack with the other. You can feel a natural rhythm to it, that rhythm is due to how our brain works. So this means the reality of dual wielding is that you have to train a lot to overcome this. While you can get better at performing multiple seperate tasks, you are never going to be able to eliminate the possibility of your brain getting confused and just mucking everything up (like people muck up the simple task of patting your head and rubbing your stomach), which is not something you want to occur during a sword fight. The conclusion to all this is that dual wielding is less wielding 2 weapons and more like wielding one weapon that just has different avenues of attack and defense than a typical sword. There is technically two weapons, but they move, attack and defend in coordination with each other. If you practice dual wielding enough and experiment with it you will probably reach the same conclusion that everyone else did, there is one superior dual wielding style, 1 weapon 1 shield.
@@franstar27 you just proved my point, that being ambidextrous is key to fighting with two hand weapons at the same time. It is true that you can learn to be ambidextrous, but without that brain wired connection a learned ambidextrous human will be at a disadvantage against a born ambidextrous human in a dual weapons fight.
@@scholagladiatoria being ambidextrous gives that person an advantage in learning and using two hand weapons over a person that is not. Simply put Natured wired them to use both hands.
4:42 who would ever be stupid enough to say that? That's as stupid as saying that every unarmed martial art should be identical because people have 2 hands and feet. WTF?
Southern Indian Kalaripayyat does a lot of dual wielding ; almost as much as sword / buckler. But then again kalaripayyat is mostly about showmanship ^^
Just off the back of dual swords, was there never a sword with small shield combined mounted somewhere near the hilt so it could be used in the guard hand? The other thought that springs to mind is that the attacker with two swords has to be more open to the opponent given they need to at some point use that weapon thus presenting their front.Whereas a person with one sword/weapon only presents the side view most of the time.
Swept hilts and basket hilts fill the role of handguard well enough. To mount a buckler onto a sword would probably throw off the balance way too much.
I have a question for you. On a more broad topic concerning certain parctice that are linked to HEMA. As you mentionned, there are some schools and traditions that can arise in the practice of HEMA. Sometimes they will study one source in particular, and from there extrapolate those learnings outside of the reach of the source into other weapons. They devellop it as a system that sometimes goes away from the source from what i gather. I think about The Verdadera Destreza teaching longsword from rapier theory, or the 1595 clubs on the Saviolo school of fighting. From what i have seen they do not teach directly from the source but more from the opinion of a figure of authority within that school. What are your opinions on that and how do you thing it compares with the more classical approach to HEMA ?
dual wielding was not common for the same reason switch hitting is not common in boxing today. you need to have innate cordination on both sides and to invest the time.
What surprises me is that we don't see these things much: Sword and mace/axe: one agile weapon for parrying and one for stunning (depending on armor and absence of shields) Dual wielding daggers: is easier than swords and makes more sense to me, as there are scenarios where you can't carry a good weapon and thus rather take two lesser, but concealable ones...
the axe one is a bad combination. the mace one can work because there are armored rich knights & unarmored peasant soldiers in a melee. just bash the knight helmets with the mace and shank the peasants with the sword.
@@ElDrHouse2010 You can also use some axes to bash helmets and unlike a mace, you can pull shields and weapons out of the way.. PS: I´m not an axe-guy. My thinking came rother from the fact that I wouldn´t want to depend on an axe or mace for defense against someone with a sword... I would use my sword and when I see an opportune moment, then I´d whack them with my other weapon...
You should look into Thaisword style. It's quit different from Philipino Kali. I've watch many video about dual wields and none of them cover the topic like how to act or think when using dual swords. Try visit us at Facebook Bangkok Historical Fencing.
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We can't even get two Italians living 30 miles apart at the end of the 16thC to agree on how to use one sword...
Well, you can't get 2 Italian brothers today to agree on how to make a pizza, so what do you expect....
There were no Italians in the 16th century.
@@WilhelmDrake Don't be pedantic. It was simpler, and much easier understood, than naming two towns a lot of people haven't heard of.
@@WilhelmDrake There was no Italy as a nation, but there definitely were Italians. In fact, Silver wrote quite fervently against them (in 1599) :)
@667Gullin What? The concept of "Italian", in the sense of a unified people, definitely existed in the middle ages. Both Dante and Petrarca can't seem to stop talking about it
It wasn't historically common because you have to invest a lot of points into dexterity.
Indeed. Nevermind the number of feats you have to expend.
It also isn't as good at later levels in comparison with great weapon master.
Unless you make a crit fishing fighter, in which case it may be more effective.
It was historically common in duels, just not in battles
@Cliven Longsight I also saw someone mentioned dual wielding being used in european battle under Lindybeige's video about dual wielding. Can't bother to unroll 5000 comments there and ctrl + F, but it was about either scottish or irish people
@@Kubaaa555 the might be historical sources which mention dual wielding. But this doesnt mean that is was common nor that it was effective.
We should start promoting sword and shield as dual wielding.
It totally is
Shield, buckler, dagger - it's all dual wielding.
Not uncommon for longsworders to struggle more with S&B than just the single arming sword when they first try it.
Nah one is dps and other is tanking
Bob MiLaplace but you are literally wielding the two of them.
It counts as dual wielding in Minecraft as far as I know
2 swords? Must be ceremonial!
Winner
From the Metatron? I suppose a new historical TH-camr meme has born.
Or religious.
Kali uses dual wielding weapons from dual swords to dual knifes or sword and knife
I practice Arnis, which you mentioned under Filipino martial arts. Drills for two weapon fighting in it often involves one weapon forward for any given time while you move the other into position. During sparring, I often found that if you do that, you end up facing your enemy squarely and end up having to defend your entire front. What I often end up doing is taking up a single weapon stance so I end up looking like a rapier stance except you have two weapons and every time you find an opportunity to switch which foot is in front you swap the hand in front. Less tiring and less area to defend. It does end up like you are fighting with single weapons but the swaps keep you fresh. I've tired out sparring partners this way until they get careless. Doesn't look as flashy as the drills do but everyone I've sparred with always claim it is both annoying to deal with and tiring to defend against. Since it seems to work, I've kept on using it.
When a man waving a pair of swords around says "there's more than one way to skin a cat", I fear for Cat Easton's life.
The vaselines - monster pussy
But he's not even using a katzbalger!
Speaking of, you could dual wield cats for an octo wield?
The part of martial arts that it's taken me a long time to understand is that even if two things look the same, that doesn't mean they work the same. A lot of 'beginner HEMA' is "stand in this guard, now stand in this guard, now marvel at this cool play that won't work when you try it in sparring". But the part of HEMA that they don't tell you (possibly because it's the hardest thing to be sure about) is that each system is meant to be a way of looking at a fight, of breaking up your and your opponent's actions into defined categories so that you can apply techniques that you know work well in those contexts. Even if two systems have the same response to the same provocation, the way they describe it and the way you're supposed to look at it could be completely different.
The primary weapon of every martial art is Phaedrus' Knife?
Interesting
That's what I learned when I practiced japanese ju-jutsu as well; the first years you simply learn all the basics (two-ish times training a week). That is, the techniques in stand-alone format. When you get closer to the black belt, you start to "freehand" it at some sessions to learn the various situations you can use the techniques in. Basically, the attacker attacks however he wants and you defend yourself however you want. With 30 or so techniques at hand, you quickly learn which ones are for heritage to the japanese martial art, which ones are actually effective in a real scenario, and which ones are best left to armored combat.
Yup. In fact if you look at mixed HEMA matches using different styles, much like MMA unarmed matches.........the vast differences tend to narrow down to what's actually practical in reality and they all start to blur together. That being said....people need to learn SOME system just as a point of reference for training. You can't really train a skill if you never do the same thing twice. That's the value of various systems. At some point in time there were NO systems of any kind.......and people just made them up.
Having trained in Silver's backsword technique, where you use the true guardant form (E.g. For a right hander, right arm pointing forward, slightly bent and with your blade pointing downwards but slightly forwards towards you left knee and the basket presented to your opponent just above eye level). It's a very effective defence, but takes a long time to master. This is because your arm isn't used to being put in that type of awkward position, it feels counter-intuitive. It takes a while for you muscles to develop so that you can hold the form, you do see most people hold it for a short while then revert to a Stocatta like position or sword lowered pointing at your opponent, arm not quite straight out but more relaxed. It's a more comfortable position and you can hold it for quite a while. However, it invites binding, though is good for the trust if you time it right.
Unlike in some techniques where you blades touch and you try to feel your opponents blade to sense their intent. Silver was adamant not to present your blade in this way. Apart from being too "Rapier-ish", it is too easy to bind the blade. So unlike Sabre, and Matt is probably going to tell me I'm wrong, Silver's technique was a more thorough form of martial art in that your sword was just part of the story, as you use your off-hand in an offensive or defensive manner for punching, grappling, or binding your opponent's blade and not forgetting a good kick to the cobs! Basically do anything to win, whilst not being counter-hit. Silver's techniques aren't pretty unlike some to watch, but I think they were effective for the time, especially against a Rapier-ist.
I was stoked you through in a shot of Drizzt Do'Urden at 0.58. Those are my favorite fantasy books!
Mine too, as a teenager. I should probably revisit them.
@@scholagladiatoria Bob Salvatore has a new trilogy going back into Zaknafein, Jarlaxle back story...and Zaknafein has been resurrected and is back adventuring with Drizzt. Still good stuff.
@@jasonr5989 What!? What's it called!?
i came looking for this comment. such an awesome series.
That's when I read them as well! I started re-reading them all this year at age 27 and I'm enjoying it a lot. And thanks for all your great content Matt!
I haven't watched in a while, has Matt finally been banished to the shed?
When you're dual-wielding, you have a higher chance of collateral damage being inside the house than the garage I'd think.
@@Jazzman-bj9fq that`s for sure! :P
If two-weapon fighting is going to be focused on so heavily in cinema and gaming, I wish that the rapier and main gauche combination would be featured more often.
It will never cease to baffle me when another great video is uploaded, articulate, well researched, un-controversial and it still manages to get thumbs down from people. Who are these trolls?
Indeed. I have noticed that pretty much any completely uncontroversial video on any channel still gets minimum 1% down votes. The only time it doesn't happen is very small niche interest channels. You would think this was a niche subject but the channel is now too big for down vote immunity.
Best guess? Weaboo anime fans who can't stand the thought of cartoonish dual weilding not being a thing.
my guess would be accidents too. or some kind of mood variations when you just hate everyone around you and, well… I think Matt has a quite low downvote percentage compared to most other channels, actually… anyway, upto 2% downvotes I don't attribute it to the quality of the content or its reception. it's only when it gets higher I start to think about what could be the reasons behind it
@@kevingooley9628 if im allowed to expand upon you
They feel offended because it wasn't a thing on Battlefield
"There are many MANY ways of skinning a cat" ...and this is how the best cat leather was collected to make the biker gear in the Vikings show.
Matt: "There are different ways of skinning a cat" :pats his langmesser:
PETA: "All patrols report in, we have an emergency"
People for eating tasty animals? Is a cat tasty?
He tried to convince lucy to let him write a chapter on cat skinning for her cat care book but she was rightly concerned for Catt Easton's safety
@@polyommata lol
@@tbjtbj4786 where I'm from, the grocery stores that sell rabbit are required to leave the feet and tail on the carcass to show that it isn't a dead cat being sold. Apparently, they both look very alike with no skin. So, I guess cats are at least as tasty as rabbits. Idk personally. Never had either one. Lol
@@sandeman1776 people that sell racoons here do the same thing with the feet.
Well if it taste like rabbit it's good. Rabbit one of my favorite wild foods.
If a knight in plate armor were facing numerous lightly armed opponents, that would be an excellent time to wield 2 weapons.
historically in that situation, you'd see such soldiers with one long weapon like a montante that can keep multiple attackers at range while leaving minimal openings.
unless two attackers are standing directly in front of you, you aren't swinging both arms out in opposite directions with two swords and leaving your center entirely exposed.
by that daft logic there would only be 1 unarmed martial art in the world, thanks for making the most obvious banal point in an extremely interesting way, great video
10:15 Matt, why are we skinning cats?! is that an English expression? totally took me aback to hear this. I laughed for too long
Anyhow, love this video. thank you for consistently giving high quality videos!
Yes, it's an idiom in English (not just British English, also American). Not commonly used now for obvious reasons.
@@VideoMask93 It's commonly used in the UK. It's not something you'd have opportunity to say every day, but it's used. I hear it less in Merseyside than Yorkshire, though, so I think it depends on where you live and what sort of company you keep.
Dual wielding being supposedly bad is one of those HEMA myths along "straight swords cut as good as curved ones", "spear always beats swords" (as if shields didn't exists) etc. It was very common in duels, and alot of people in our times who sparrs says that it's one of best combos possible. I feel that being scared of called "weaboo" is one of a reasons that more people don't giving it a chance
It's a style that had to be learned, usually after one has learned to use one sword. Consequently, dual wielding is an advanced technique, whatever style or weapons used. You have to learn another set of skills, and that takes time and practice.
@@BigHenFor So in other words - it is good if you are skilled. It's not just for "showing off"
@Gerben van Straaten Then how to call an usage of sword + dagger or rapier + dagger if not dual wielding?
If someone is a master of that style they are as dangerous as any master of martial art is. I guess it's unpopularity is because of high threshold of competence. It takes lots of practice and experience to be good at that and someone using less complex method is gaining competence faster.
Two-weapon fighting in numbers: 1, 2, 3, 4..until master at ten
Single weapon fighting: 1, 3, 5, 8, 8,...until master at ten
I'm just going to ask the question we're all thinking:
Where can we get a sweater like that?
The sword style Musashi taught was dual-wielding - actually slightly shorter katana. The reason he did not dual-wield was that he never found the need to do so - he felt he was that good. Perhaps he was.
The actual style is Hyoho Niten Ichi-ryu. He didn't only taught use of the daisho, but single sword, short sword, two swords, quarterstaff, jujutsu and truncheon (from which he allegedly developped his use of the two swords incidentally, nothing to do with portuguese - japanese were known to wield the daisho at least a hundred years before 1543, see TSKSR for instance). He taught all these as a complete coherent system. By the time you are learning two swords, you should mostly be applying the stuff you have learned in the previous parts of the curriculum rather than getting new concepts, it's only for techniques wise. The core of HNIR isn't dual wielding but a specific way of moving and the use of timing, especially what's referred to as "sen no sen". It's a myopic view to think that Musashi taught "dual-wielding".
Also he most certainly did used two swords during the end of his fighting against the Yoshioka family.
Musashi must have been a talented fencer, he came from a family of fencers and teachers, his style had several off-shots and managed to survive right up until the modern world which is no small feat considering only something like 1 in 8 schools or so did in the Meiji era. His style was also represented in the early Tokyo Metropolitan Police. He was a famed master, but in his time he certainly was only one amonst many, after more than a century of intense fighting, people skilled with a blade wasn't a thing the country was in any sort of shortage.
Should have spent more time training in the use of AA batteries.
@El Bearsidente sword and dagger aka katana and wakizashi likely date back further than the portuguese contact and also, two katana were probably used together as some point before Musashi, because remember what Matt says, he invented a style and founded a school, not really the idea of dual wielding
@@theghosthero6173 So it's possible that the rapier + main gauche combo was inspired by the Japanese use of the Daisho?
Yeah if you actually read Musashis book, he makes a much bigger point out of being able to just use one katana one handed effectively (which isn't that easy TBH) than he does dual-wielding.
It's like saying dutch kickboxing, muay thai, lethwei, karate, sanshou, and hapkido are all the same. The claim borders on being outright insulting, due to how reductionist it is.
Well, when you put a practitioner of any of these arts into a competition with the same rule set (MMA competition for example) there is convergence in the fighting styles. The most effective techniques come to the fore. The reason why styles look different across the globe are normally due to the limits of the associated competition style.
Son: " I go to battle with two swords!"
Dad: "why?"
Son: "because I am a warriour and will bring glory to our family!"
Dad: "how?"
Son: "i can deal more damage, fight and kill two persons at once!"
Dad: "stupid son, you will bring nothing to our family but misery. Never go to battle without a shield!"
My two handed sword welcome's your shield....
@@Xterminate13 my bow is waiting for your twohanded sword ;)
*Foolish
But my swords ARE sheilds!
When the "hey Google" ad stops TH-cam and sets off Google assistant on your phone.
Dude, you have never lied
„Hey Siri“ is way worse 😂 Siri reacts to things that don‘t even sound like „Hey siri“
3:50 I've got some of those bolognese sauces in my cupboard. Time to make some pasta and dual wield forks.
Maybe one really big fork would be better, but I like to parry mushrooms with one fork and wind pasta with the other.
I reckon one of the main reasons people didn’t do it often is because they don’t like using their non-dominant hand
Right, most combatants would tend to strike with one sword and use the other to block incoming blows. I think it'd be hard for our brains to coordinate simultaneous attacks with a sword in each hand. Wielding a shield is easier to handle, can block blows, and also be used as a weapon in it's own right.
Hi Matt, i like your content a lot. Great work.
May i ask you something?
Can you mix two "styles/systems" together in a personal style or do you need to stick to one "moveset"?
Fighting with a rapier or smallsword in one hand and main gauche in the other was a technique. The main gauche was mostly used defensively to intercept an opponent's attacks but could be used to attack given opportunity.
Musashi Miaymoto, perhaps the most famous Japanese swordsman, author of The Book of Five Rings, was also quite famous for his dual-wielding technique.
Ref: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niten_Ichi-ry%C5%AB
Many Chinese kung-fu forms use dual-wielding, with swords, hammers, axes, even dual-wielding sharp-edged shields. Butterfly swords in particular are almost always used as a pair.
In my experience it's the person who varies more than the sword system. There's nuance in how each tool wants to be used, but with biomechanics varying more than sword patterns. A saber will want to be used like a saber but a 6ft 280lbs man and a 5'3" 120lbs man will use the same saber differently.
The fundamentals are the same in all styles since they are based on biped humanoid with sharp stick(s) kenjutsu has so much that is identical to german and italian longsword but executed with more subtlety due to historically sharper and harder edges and a slight variations for single edged blades.
But grain of salt for my experience. I've been being trained and training in martial arts since I could walk, so that's 25 years of training, and i can pick up most weapons now get a feel for how it wants to move and where it exists in space. So I may have internalized the nuances by this point.
So in the end it's all a matter of context, right? ;D
So, the cutty part goes across the other man?
Sometimes. Other times you have to use band-aids in your fingers.
And after this the sword goes for a walk with its dog
Thanks for this and your feedback about my post on the Facebook page, Matt :) I forwarded it on to my student, too. I'd love to get your opinion about interpretive martial arts, like the Byzantine paired Paramerion interpretations that were posted. How accurate are they? How much we should worry about it? And also some of the dangers of it.
@
scholagladiatoria
Here's an idea. Having all these systems using similar tools to achieve similar ends stemming from the same base (i.e. the various stropospheres of human joints), but diverging due to their numerous *contexts*, reminds me of linguistics. If we think of one system as Latinate, another as Germanic, another as Hindustani etc., couldn't we arrive at a 'Proto-sword technique' as a distillation of what is essential and universal? It's very much Bruce Lee's philosophy, but from another perspective. Matt seems to be spotting all the twigs here without acknowledging that there's a trunk there. I won't deny anything he says here, but there's an awful lot of 'absolutely, not at all' that makes the historian in me fidget somewhat.
Props for showing Drizzt lol!
The coolest sword movie I remember as a kid, the people were using a rapier and long dagger. They might have been French.
Win94ae Rapier and Parrying Dagger is a well documented historical weapon set, primarily in civilian use. The French called the dagger Main Gauche (left hand in French) but there is a large variation in form. The archetypal French Main Gauche is particularly long with fairy stout hand protection.
Thank you!
Always informative. Thank you for your work.
Dual wielders get the Tripple AAA treatment
-Awesome to look at
-Automatically very skilled
-Assured to give any opponent one hell of a fight
Not only that they're few enough to signify not only the amount of work but sheer lunacy to even think you can do it competently but the ones that make it are in an elite category of their own
Anyone who says otherwise have their visor on too high and need a good lesson from a hard, stiff Halberd shaft
Tripple AAA is AAA AAA AAA?
2:31 me, building a Ranger and picking the Two-Weapon fighting style for environmental reasons.
Lol, nice one.
...damn you Drizzt! At least Artemis Entari's dual wileding is pactical, sword and dagger not two scimitars.
Here in Spain the rapier+dagger(or a simply but very sharp knife) was the traditional thing in the past. Even sometimes the rapier stopped the enemy hit and the non-dominant hand did the job. We usually used knifes and short weapons to kill the people xD
hahaha Drizzt got an honorary shout-out
Yes but what's the cheese board hanging on the door bolt there for ? Can cheeseboards be used in duel Wielding ?
I believe that is a Maori(?) war club. You might be able to dual-wield it.
You never pair a mature cheddar on the offence with a runny blue as defence?
Ah maybe it doubles up as a cheeseboard when not using it in war. Cheers.
I suppose it could have a treble use as a paddle.
Never mind about why would you use two swords, why would you use a cheeseboard as a war club ?
I hadn't thought of it like that. Good points.
OK, this one was full blown HEMA / HAMA sword geek... all the lingo, swish, well over my head. Keep them coming.
Dual wielding was more common in history than you might think. It depends heavily on the type of sword in your dominant hand and what weapon is in your off hand. Rapier and dager became a very meta combo in duels amount those who could afford them. I would even consider sword and shield to be a form of dual wield almost. The reason so many chose a shield over a second weapon was because a shield is much better on the battlefield while second weapon shine more in one on one duels. Miyamoto musashi also argued to those who claimed duel wielding wasn't practical that it was a skill problem rather than a practicality problem.
Krabi krabong- thaught at many muay thai camps in Thailand( tiger muay thai camp in Phuket for example) it is thai swordsmanship and teaches dual weilding including sparing......just dont expect the flash protective pads and clothing used in hema. You start with dual wielding canes then move on to metal swords and sparing.
Yes, Thailand's Buddhaisawan school begins by teaching dual swords
Matt misspoke and created a great new word "coultries" I love it. Combining coulters and countries.
Drizzt making a cameo!!!
Great video!! Thanks!!!
Philipino escrima/kali, uses double stick/blade training. To build ambidexterity. Also sword and dagger. Its good for conditioning at least.
Notice! 4:33 to 8:36 should be mandatory viewing for anyone endeavoring to study the sword of any culture or time period.
The obvious answer to the title is 'no' but it's totally worth hearing Mr Easton detail how they differ.
Do you have any thoughts on the differences in different schools of rapier and thrusting swords used across the world?
edit after watching further in: Amazing, you mad lad you read my mind.(I could still stand to hear a whole video of you talking about though, it if you ever felt the urge)
Elles sont superbe, ces épées...🤗
Thank you, thank you for this. Hopefully I can get a few knotheaded friends who think, why study it's all the same. Maybe this will help see the reality,.
I’ve always thought it’d be strong to duelwield a trailer and saber but use them interdependently at different times, maybe this some duelwield techniques as a mix up but I’m assuming the different balances wouldn’t be optimal for that.
I’m learning kali right now and being almost ambidextrous I’m loving duelweilding. If I were to pick up hema/fencing does anyone know what rapier and saber style might be good for my idea I feel like it’d be close to espada and daga from kali. I’d train rapier left handed and saber right, my leg muscle inserts allows me to lunge farther left handed
I would tell that even two people of same style, practices and everything they will still end with different styles based on preferences.
Once I saw a video of two swordsmen who practices kendo, one of them likes attacking the wrist and his opponent liked to attack the head. I am not telling that every attack will go to the opponents wrist or head but most of the attacks will; because that was their individual style.
Not only in swordsmanship but everything.
For example: Even identical twins might not have the same word choices when speaking. So it's based on individual preference.
As a Filipino, I'd like to get into Filipino Martial Arts
But thats another hobby to stack on top of HEMA, which i already have no time for.
I def suggest you look into your roots,
*Relevant and Supportive Comment*
historical source materials? does he mean like older editions of the rulebooks? cuz they were really stingy about allowing dual-wielding. whereas now practically anyone can do it with any pair of one-handed weapons. but you still only get as many attacks per round as your fighter level allows, unless your GM says otherwise. but in that case that means that monsters and npcs can do it too, so watch out.
man, imagine dual wield,
two rapiers.
out of all swords.
there are videos: th-cam.com/video/Pjs4mbZovCM/w-d-xo.html
Stabby Stab
Off topic question : Were 15th and 16 th centuries cavalry estocs better at thrusting than later cavalry swords (1908 for example) ?
Better in what way?
@@scholagladiatoria in penetrating clothing or mail for example.
Lol. Classic question and classic answer (in any area, professional or not).
Q: is X better at Y than Z?
A: It is complex.
Lesson to be learned. Never ask if something is better. Maybe ask:
Q: What are the differences between X and Z when Y.
A: I will have to do a video about that...
Its better and not better at the same time. I hope thag answered ur question.
The best penetrating thing will always be that with a sharper point, stiffer blade/shaft, applied with more energy. If you want to penetrate the Earth for example, use a mining drill. For penetrating armour, you choose a weapon specialised for penetrating armour.
It looks cool as heck but man I can tell you from messing around with it in sword class it is totally great if what you're into is getting in your own way.
What I find interesting about some of those historical drawings is the THIRD sword still sheathed while they fight using two.
“Before I learned the art, a punch was just a punch, and a kick, just a kick. After I learned the art, a punch was no longer a punch, a kick, no longer a kick. Now that I understand the art, a punch is just a punch and a kick is just a kick.” -- Bruce Lee
Despite there being a lot of differences due to culture/style/preference/tactics/context as you've pointed out, there will be A LOT of universally common aspects due to the limitations of the human body and the laws of physics.
As for in media, there was a videogame where the main character dual wielded short swords and a veteran character (whom used a longsword, I believe) called him out for not having legit reasons for it other than it looking cool.
If I were in a life or death duel and we both were wielding two swords, I think I'd throw one of my swords at my opponent then strike him while he's attempting to dodge. Without a shield it would be difficult to block missile weapons.
One sword is just a big parrying dagger.
If that's the approach, just use a dagger. No debole to get found by the other guy's sword, less strenuous, not likely to have your weapons bound together, and you have a spike in your hand in case they decide to be dumb and get in close.
It is an executioners style, assymetrical warfare style, or human hunters style and not a pitched duel or battle style. Dual weilding is the practice of creating a metaphorical two blade liontamers stool used to confuse and entrap an opponent who is perhaps more skilled or physically stronger but is momentarily less well armed ...it is also the cold blooded indescriminate processing of enemy soldiers like brush to be cleared like cobwebs from the path in front with a pair machetes...dual weilding is for hit and run attacks and indoor space clearing and not for extended face to face kicking range kendo matches.
I would be curious to see the sources for the use of two katana/long swords simultaneously. It's only skimmed over briefly, just a single sentence in the video but still... Now there's something a little bit curious which is that there is a style that teaches dual-wielding of short swords against long sword, Tendo-ryu.
At first I thought you were wearing mail, and then I realised; jumper.
Ambidextrous skill points 1000+ LEVEL UP
Are there historical sources for skinning a cat with two swords?
You're absolutely right. Krabi-Krabong, for instance, looks nothing at all like Nito-Ryu Kenjutsu.
And now don't anyone go out there and point fingers indiscriminately at any odd fantasy movie that has dual-wielding in it. Just because it's overrepresented doesn't mean that's necessarily a bad thing. If you feel straw-manned at this point, feel free to skip the next section.
Hear me out, fantasy and movies/fiction in general are usually about the unusual, for several reasons: fantasy and sci-fi have it at the core of their genres because the unusual has appeal in itself, but many other genres use it to explore what humans do and should do in circumstances that are not easy. Anyway, this means that having a person that is unusual or unusually skilled is more common in fiction than in real life, statistically speaking. So as long as fiction that tries to use realism as a way to appeal makes it clear that a person dual-wielding is something unusual, this should not be a problem. I think a great example is Ser Arthur Dayne in the GoT show, regardless of what you think of the choreography of the fight scene, it makes it seem like a pretty exotic way of fighting.
It would be really cool if you could do a list of original sources of two swords : )
It might be something that a person would use because they have poor eyesight.
When I was in a production of *Romeo and Juliet* in college the actor playing Benvolio could not play at rapier and dagger because no matter how much he rehearsed the fight he could not see his partner's blade well enough to make the dagger parries. Ultimately the fight choreographer set him up with a case of rapiers and with those he could manage.
I like that messer. Is that a production, custom, or antique?
It's from a German (edit: actually Hungarian, I stand corrected) maker. They ship worldwide.
@@juliahenriques210 lanskenect emporium?
@@erichusayn Yep.
Landsknecht Emporium from Hungary
@@scholagladiatoria thanks! Gotta get me one of those.
Sparring 2 foils vs nylon longsword had worked although the bell guards bent slightly
You should look at Thai Krabi-krabong they dual wield daab that looks like a machete and it's their main training
Any historical person that famously did dual-wielding?
Miyamoto Musashi katana + wakazashi (he trained exclusively with 2 katanas to get used to the heavy weight). Lots of Rapier + Main Guache in Europe.
@@ElDrHouse2010 Dimacheurs in Rome too, and I also heard about either Scottish or Irish people using two swords at once
Well it worked for the baron of Entragues Charles de Balzac in a famous duel...
Here's one question I've thought about, for dual wielding, what if you used a thrust oriented sword and a cut oriented sword? Something like a Rapier or Side sword that's more point on and meant for thrusting in one hand and a Saber or messer or basket hilt in the other that's mean more of cuts with the cutting edge? And I'm just wondering in general, not so much from an historical view since a lot of cases point to the same or very similar swords.
There seem to be a lot of illustrations of 1 on 1 duels. Most of the stills in this video are of 1 on 1 duels. This could be a gimmick used by a challenged party in a duel against a superior opponent who isn't familiar with dual wielding techniques.
Yeah, and I'm guessing a lot of dual-wielding in those situations is motivated by either 1) I'm so awesome I can dual-wield (so it's partly an intimidation tactic) or 2) the current situation doesn't let me carry a shield or buckler but I do have a second weapon so I'm using it as a hard defensive object. Or possibly a combination of both.
I doubt it. It would gimp you more than it would someone more used to fighting in general. I'd say the pictures are mostly about skilled swordsmen doing a performance-type fight with a fancy and uncommon weapon combination. Godinho's twin swords on the other hand is all about self-defense (or guarding a VIP) against many opponents, less about winning a fight per-ce and more about preventing numerous opponents from getting close enough to harm you. He also mentions people choosing to carry two swords as their main implement of defense, so I'd wager a guess that dual-wielding was more common in the Iberian peninsula than in the rest of the Europe. Kali with its undeniable Spanish influence also suggests that. Manciolino's twin-swords assault is in my opinion simply an evolution of his school's sword and dagger for students able to handle two long weapons, it works similarly but with two swords of equal length you can work all of the techniques from either side.
It could also be a gimmick to sell more treatises/classes, a way of saying, "If you learn from me, you too can learn how dual wield and be a badass, just like me". After all, the authors of these treatises weren't writing them just for the sake of doing so or to pass on down to posterity, they were doing so to make a name for themselves and/or to make money from selling these treatises or lessons from them. So what better way to promote yourself than to include special or "secret" techniques that you can learn only from this particular master?
They are depictions in Asia of Persian, Japanese Chinese and Thai going into battle with two sword, sometimes two mace or truncheon (rarely axe). It is equally seen from horseback as on foot. Sadly now only Korea and Japan have paired sword manuscript, but that is likely to do with Thailand lacking a lot in terms of writing books. Let's talk about Thailand also, they seem to historically be the most connected with dual wielding, with one king making it its specifically. Still to this day Krabi krabong (sword and stick) as well as its Burmese, lao and Cambodian relative are huge martial art putting large emphasis on dual wielding which can also be seen on some art pieces produced by them in the past, yet they are always out of this discussion
@@digitaljanus Or dual wield is just one of best combos possible if fencer is skilled. That's what people who doing alot of sparrings often says. "Dual wield is bad" is one of those european HEMA myths along with "straight swords cut as good as curved", "spear is better than sword and shield", etc
I’m thinking on what the best combo would be
Smallsword and cutlass?
Rapier and Wakizashi?
Military Sabre and Kodachi?
rapier and dagger
If you practice with two - does that mean that if one arm is wounded, youve got experience of wielding a sword in the other hand? hmm interesting
This is actually what Matt did when he got his right hand injured. He won a tournament match with his left hand because he trained it & his opponent wasnt used to dealing with lefties.
Anything is a skill. I think that Matt also knows a dual wielder that does great in tournaments, its just that there are very few that try that hard to get good with 2 swords but its possible.
@@ElDrHouse2010 WOW... brilliant. What tournament thats sounds exciting to watch?
if you watch mma there's a shit ton of ways you can win a fight
and mma has been new last 200 years or so at most...
before gunpowder there were probably a billion martial arts with swords and weapons
Does anyone know the source of the case of falchions (hangers) referred to here?
BUY MORE SWORDS MATT, WE NEED THAT WEBSITE SHINEY BRUHV.
Next time I am in a trial by combat, I am going to demand dual swords
Humans that are ambidextrous are a fact of human life, therefore ambidextrous humans will use both their hands in their fighting skills and training. The most amusing ambidextrous are baseball players that can switch their stance.
Being ambidextrous has little to do with dual wielding, you can learn to be ambidextrous. The problem with dual wielding 2 weapons is that the human brain is not adept at performing different uncoordinated complex tasks at the same time. For example, thrusting with both left and right at the same time, towards the same target feels fairly natural. Cutting downwards with your left while thrusting at someones mid section with the right feels awkward. Our brains are just not wired to perform two different tasks like that at the same time. This is the same reason why there is those things like pat your head and rub your stomache, two relatively simple tasks that can leave people muddled when trying to do them at the same time.
To test this just pretend you are dual wielding and start shadow fighting. You will quickly find the natural tendency is to attack with one hand then attack with the other, defend with one hand, then attack with the other. You can feel a natural rhythm to it, that rhythm is due to how our brain works.
So this means the reality of dual wielding is that you have to train a lot to overcome this. While you can get better at performing multiple seperate tasks, you are never going to be able to eliminate the possibility of your brain getting confused and just mucking everything up (like people muck up the simple task of patting your head and rubbing your stomach), which is not something you want to occur during a sword fight.
The conclusion to all this is that dual wielding is less wielding 2 weapons and more like wielding one weapon that just has different avenues of attack and defense than a typical sword. There is technically two weapons, but they move, attack and defend in coordination with each other. If you practice dual wielding enough and experiment with it you will probably reach the same conclusion that everyone else did, there is one superior dual wielding style, 1 weapon 1 shield.
Being ambidextrous doesn't really have anything to do with dual-wielding.
@@franstar27 you just proved my point, that being ambidextrous is key to fighting with two hand weapons at the same time. It is true that you can learn to be ambidextrous, but without that brain wired connection a learned ambidextrous human will be at a disadvantage against a born ambidextrous human in a dual weapons fight.
@@scholagladiatoria being ambidextrous gives that person an advantage in learning and using two hand weapons over a person that is not. Simply put Natured wired them to use both hands.
@@scholagladiatoria humans born ambidextrous are ideal for learning dual weapons fighting, you can not beat what Mother Nature made.
4:42 who would ever be stupid enough to say that? That's as stupid as saying that every unarmed martial art should be identical because people have 2 hands and feet. WTF?
Dual Wielding also looks good in comic too.
Southern Indian Kalaripayyat does a lot of dual wielding ; almost as much as sword / buckler.
But then again kalaripayyat is mostly about showmanship ^^
I dig your sweater, where could I get one like that?
Just off the back of dual swords, was there never a sword with small shield combined mounted somewhere near the hilt so it could be used in the guard hand? The other thought that springs to mind is that the attacker with two swords has to be more open to the opponent given they need to at some point use that weapon thus presenting their front.Whereas a person with one sword/weapon only presents the side view most of the time.
Swept hilts and basket hilts fill the role of handguard well enough. To mount a buckler onto a sword would probably throw off the balance way too much.
Not necessarily, it depends on your style and weapon employed.
An extreme example I found on google th-cam.com/video/0AIUF6iCPj0/w-d-xo.html
I love your sweaters. Where do you get them?
I have a question for you. On a more broad topic concerning certain parctice that are linked to HEMA.
As you mentionned, there are some schools and traditions that can arise in the practice of HEMA.
Sometimes they will study one source in particular, and from there extrapolate those learnings outside of the reach of the source into other weapons. They devellop it as a system that sometimes goes away from the source from what i gather. I think about The Verdadera Destreza teaching longsword from rapier theory, or the 1595 clubs on the Saviolo school of fighting.
From what i have seen they do not teach directly from the source but more from the opinion of a figure of authority within that school.
What are your opinions on that and how do you thing it compares with the more classical approach to HEMA ?
There are many styles but they all must necessarily rely on the same intangible basics (beyond techniques): distance and timing being primary.
No.
@@BigHenFor Good point, well made.
dual wielding was not common for the same reason switch hitting is not common in boxing today. you need to have innate cordination on both sides and to invest the time.
What surprises me is that we don't see these things much:
Sword and mace/axe: one agile weapon for parrying and one for stunning (depending on armor and absence of shields)
Dual wielding daggers: is easier than swords and makes more sense to me, as there are scenarios where you can't carry a good weapon and thus rather take two lesser, but concealable ones...
the axe one is a bad combination. the mace one can work because there are armored rich knights & unarmored peasant soldiers in a melee. just bash the knight helmets with the mace and shank the peasants with the sword.
@@ElDrHouse2010 You can also use some axes to bash helmets and unlike a mace, you can pull shields and weapons out of the way..
PS: I´m not an axe-guy. My thinking came rother from the fact that I wouldn´t want to depend on an axe or mace for defense against someone with a sword... I would use my sword and when I see an opportune moment, then I´d whack them with my other weapon...
You should look into Thaisword style. It's quit different from Philipino Kali. I've watch many video about dual wields and none of them cover the topic like how to act or think when using dual swords. Try visit us at Facebook Bangkok Historical Fencing.
Non regulation cavalry swords please :'(
Actually I heard from Jerzy's book that Fiore Longsword system was based on german (?)
Well said.