Helmets: The Great Helm
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ก.ค. 2024
- Continuing the Arming Series we begin our discussion of helmets, starting with the 14th Century Great Helm, with a close look at a beautiful reproduction made by renowned armorer Robert 'Mac' MacPherson.
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#medievalarmor #livinghistory #greathelm
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I heard you like helmets, so here's a helmet for your helmet.
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2:42 Those horses are hugging it out.
I saw it too. For some dumb reason I had a ridiculous idiotic thought in my noggin telling me they were perhaps the two advisories' horses fighting, and were in a wrestling stance trying grapple each other haha.
Bros before foes.
Now I understand why they called it a great helmet. It wasn't great in the "awesome" sense of the word, it was great in the "Christ on a bike, that thing is massive" sense.
Yes, great as in big! :)
gso619 no most modern reproductions are oversized like that one.
Great helms of this style were oversized because they had to fit over an additional helmet. This is not the result of oversized reproduction, its in keeping with the documented sizes of mid-late 14th century survivals like the Pembridge Helm, the Royal Armouries example and the Edward of Woodstock Helm.
I will never get over "Christ on a bike"
In Hot weather it become’s a head oven.
You know what the frogmouth helm was held together with?...
Ribits!
That made my day
You took the leap and made the pun, truly ribbeting
Some people just want to watch the world burn.
*laugh track*
why
Didnt know horses would descend into grappling matches when their owners got dismounted in the fight...
Battle horses are vicious...
Nah man, those horses were just sharing a brotherly hug
@@franciosdeaeruiu7555 yeah, they didn't ask to be there. Just poor victims of circumstance. But at least they got those neat saddles to wear.
2:44
At least the horses are getting along
horse combat I didn't know that
I know lol, was just a joke as they look like they're hugging
They're hugging it out, like "Why can't our humans just talk this out? So many young men dying in the field over the disputes of old men in castles! Woe is the state of the world!" At which point they both stop, because someone said 'Woe'.
See, this is why TH-cam comments need a high-five button. :D
@@knightshousegames That's actually very witty. This website doesn't deserve you.
Now ye explained me one of Mount and Blade arts when there are two guys fighting on the horses and one of them has his great helmet hanging down.
Thanks
2:52 ... damn, the dude on the bottom left is having a bad day.
It's just a flesh wound!
D:
Luckily they had bandages back then.
@@fanfanthomas9688 'tis*
Holy shit, you're the medieval armour version of Forgotten Weapons to a T. Awesome.
They’re both called Ian too lol
2:46 Why are those horses hugging each other?!
PS: great work, as it is customary.
For some reason I always liked the flat top style great helmet more than the round ones. I know the round top is better at protecting due to glancing, but to me the flat top just looks better.
@Kshitij Raj no
It has more of a crusader look to it
Everyone *agreed with* that
I have to agree, my own great helm is a flat top. Very similar in design to the one here only mine only has breathing ports on the left side of the face
@@gabriel300010 thats because in the first and second crusade, the flat top great helm was favored among crusaders
It is frightening to think about men wearing this armor in battle. I imagine it had the same sort of effect of a tank. I just think of how I would deal with men wearing this stuff without guns. Awesome.
have you heard about a game called chivalry medieval warfare?
if someone atacks you, you get realy scared.
also that's just a game, amazing in real life what would happen.
Strength of a tank, skill of a Green Beret.
I find that in my opinion the great helm is better than the houndskul helmet. With this one you get much more vision than with that cone sticking out.
I know it gives better protection and breatheability, but there's to little vision.
The maximilian helmet is the best helmet in my opinion
+Just a talking taco What would YOU know? You're just a taco.
Andrew Forrest No one has eaten him yet. Maybe he wears a great helm?
I stumbled upon the video you made of yourself timing how long it takes to put your armor on because I am playing a paladin in a DND session and I was curious how long my character would take to armor up after he awoke in the morning. Several videos later and I'm subbed. This is really interesting stuff. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.
I'm here to design very unique and specialized armor for my character, making sure it's designed logically
This is the problems with these videos about historical weapons and armors, once you started you can't stop
Its quite interesting how the evolution of Western European helmets went from the 11th to the 14th century. You started with the open faces nasal bar helmet, goes to the chapel de fer, then goes to a chapel de fer with a faceplate, which in turn became a great helm. Once the great helm came into place it was realized that it was not convenient to wear all the time so they have a cervelliere and a bascinet to wear under it when more vision was preferrable. Finally they went with a bascinet with movable visor as a standalone defense, after which all Western European enclosed helmet types have a movable visor. Couldnt smiths in the 11th century simply fit the nasal helmet with a movable visor and called it a day? Of course hindsight bias is always useless ;)
Cheers
+John Huang Nice summary, Imagine the hinge technology, probably wasn't up to the job or even thought necessary or sensible back when they first enclosed the helms, then the steel got better and the hinges stronger so it became sensible to fit. Obviously that's just my conjecture!
+bren cav The hinge only needs to be a couple of rivets, so I don't think that would have been a technological limitation.
exactly
The reason there were no close helmets during 1000's its either they do not need to because of massive shields, or lack of technology
Or just make a plate gorget that rests on shoulders and protects up to the nose from front and sides? Doesn't look like much of tech or skilled involved.
I just thought to express my admiration for your historical knowledge, your factuality, your clarity and your presentation in general, I am just a city boy living in London and I find your videos enjoyable, best wishes Ian
Thank you very much! I really appreciate it.
Wow... I never knew that the Great Helm was worn over another helm. It is really doubling up.
So glad I found out about your channel recently. Detailed, quality, and concise videos about the topic you're talking about, and so far you haven't disappointed.
Keep it up!
Thank you so much for these videos. They corrected quite a lot of misconceptions (acquired from tv documentaries and movies) I had about medieval armor.
It is great to see in such detail why and how certain armor was produced and used.
Awesome work as always Ian!
Your Channel is great! I came because Matt Easton from scholagladiatoria recommended this channel and so far I'm impressed with your very concise and detailed explanations. I hope this channel gets more popular and you can keep pumping out videos!
+usaid alfatih Thank you and welcome!
+usaid alfatih Me too.
+Daniel Billington Me three!
+Knyght Errant I really like your delivery Ian. Have you heard of the channel forgottenweapons? Both of you guys are very similar lol
same
Such calm vibes in these videos subscribed
That. Is one sweet looking helmet you've got there on the table.
*Really* nice looking.
Great video. Really informative. These helmets are so cool looking! :)
Very informative. Thanks. A proper Great Helm is not only very large but cleverly designed.
Detailed and informative, thank you.
I wonder how effective the suspension of the great helm is at mitigating concussive force to the head, when being walloped on the head with a mace I'd be glad of having the two layers with some give between them.
It's a shame that I'm just discovering these videos now. The articulation on the gauntlets, in particular was fascinating. Now, seeing that helmets weren't just a metal hat that you wear on your head, I'm engrossed in the entire armor systems.
Great video! I came here on Matt Easton's recommendation. I made a great helm recently (nowhere near the level of quality of the one you've shown, but it's my first piece of plate armor), and while I love it, its deficiencies became clear quite quickly... It's a beautiful design nonetheless.
Great stuff. Learned a lot.
Honestly, in a cavalry charge, I would feel more protected with a great helm and a bascinet underneath it than with just a hounskull.
This is insanely cool.
great helm , great video!
Now I finally know why they are called 'great' helmets! :D I wasn't expecting it to be this huge, because I hadn't known about them being worn over another helmet. Thank you for educating me on this.
That suspension system inside of the great helmet is ingenious! It looks like it could also be adjusted for a perfect fit by tightening the inner strap that is connecting the leather pads. Very clever craftsmanship.
Excellent video.
This is one of my favorite helms, I am going to get one once I move into my apartment.
such a nice looking helmet.
Excellent video enjoyed and learned alot.I hope you make video about sallet one day and it's variations.
I think think a great helm was my first helmet and by golly did I feel like the most powerful guy ever when I put that thing on. Like major confidence booster
Hi Ian, as others mentioned, your video's are great!! I just wondered if the leather lining was also there on original one?
I like your channel, lindybiege's channel is also good but he gets spontaneous which is not a bad thing but your seem calmer when you explain. Good job mate!
The first type of helmet I got to wear ad use in armored sparring. One of my overall favorites. Despite it's drawbacks, it's still an awesome piece of wargear Also, it looks epic.
Great video. Thanks a lot :)
Your Videos are really very good showing just how careful our ancestors were to protect themselves .
I live in England and have studied examples of armour. You present 'living' examples very well.
I am of Manx Blood. May I why do you show the Legs of Man on your laptop ?
Many thanks
Graham
That was really interesting! I learned a lot.
I notice that the aventail hangs substantially from the chin. I have the feeling that a historical version would have gathered a little more underneath the chin to reduce this (as mentioned by Lindybeige in one of his coif videos).
+Arioch IV Much like coifs, historical aventails come in a wide variety of shapes. You have some surviving mail very fitted around the chin, but on the actual bascinets we have with surviving mail, they look more like what you see in the video (here's an example of a surviving original aventail on its bascinet (www.pinterest.com/pin/449515606530388945/)
@2:40 Those horses are just best friends hugging it out while the knights are playing stab-the-other-guy.
What decade were the very earliest examples of this bascinet and great helm combination seen? Congratulations and keep up the good work!
Cool helmet love to try it
I always wondered about the setup of the helm in William Longespee's funerary effigy. Are there other examples of that coif-over-helm style depicted anywhere? Has anyone tried to reproduce this yet?
I really do love these variations of The Great Helm, that goes over the Bascinet with no visor, but I still prefer the regular ones of the earlier centuries for simple esthetic purposes, but I have seen some smaller depictions of a leather & or wool cap with straps worn underneath like the bomber ones from WW II or early football/rugby, placed under the chainmail coif before the helm was put on, do you also wear something like this when wearing your Bascinet?
Under a mail coif an additional textile coif is often worn to keep the mail off the hair and skin, but it's largely unnecessary in a bascinet. Virtually all surviving bascinets have holes pierced around their perimeter for sewing in an integral textile suspension liner, negating the need for an additional textile arming coif. I do have a video on helmet liners if you're interested - th-cam.com/video/itO64ZBX1jU/w-d-xo.html
An interesting combat technique at 2:18 in the group to the right, the left swordsman has managed to grab the arm of the one to the right, before stabbing him with his sword.
You should do another video about the Burgonet or the Sugarloaf helm.
12:29 How do you tie down the great helm to your self, while you wear it?
So that, it does not get knocked off while fighting?
In a lot of cases it would be discarded after the initial cavalry charge, so getting it off quickly is important which is one reason we may not see any evidence of a chin strap. Sometimes it's also better to have your helmet knocked off by a lance (the helm itself would be retained by your cuirass chains if you're wearing them), then having all of that force transferred to your head and neck (either killing your or unhorsing you).
@@KnyghtErrant What is the actual evidence for that it was discarded after the charge? I have heard somewhere that this is simply speculation, but I might be wrong. Apparently Henry V wore a great helm as late as the Battle of Agincourt, where it saved his life. And he hardly participated in a cavalry charge there. A properly bespoke great helm is supposedly nowhere near as restricting as some people claim, so what would be the reasons for discarding it? As war is not sport, people tend to value protection quite heavily.
@@Osvath97 It _is_ speculation. The thinking is mostly rooted in helms that were specifically intended for wear over bascinets, which is not true of all helms (it would obviously be foolish to remove your _only_ helmet in the middle of a fray), and in many cases discarded might be a mischaracterization (although certainly possible in extremis). A lot of 14th century helms were equipped with provisions for attachment to chains that allowed the helm to be slung over the shoulder and retrieved when needed. Being able to reduce the burden down to a single helmet seems to have been important to them. Helms do offer great protection and are not as restrictive as bad modern reproductions would lead people to believe, but many of them are pretty terrible when it comes to vision and breathing, especially when compared to the underlying bascinet. In those cases where the helm _is_ worn over a bascinet, some people believe that in certain circumstances the need for unimpeded vision and air might supersede the need for the superior protection offered by the helm, and the fact that it was designed to be removable while still retaining an underlying helmet lends support to the idea.
@@KnyghtErrant Well, when it comes to the later double-helmed ones, that makes more sense. Even so, the need for layered protection with an extra helm might have been a factor? Of course, if the chains are coincidental to the development of the secret-helm then it does lend credence to that it was designed to be removable while still in combat. But still, it feels like the need to easily remove it when out of immediate combat (but when still on the battlefield) feels more likely than something like a very specific "charge helm". I guess that is one of my main complaints, the concept of charging in, then when engaged in melee you would somehow throw the helmet off while also scrambling to draw your secondary weapon. However, it feels plausible that it may be desirable to remove the helmet even in certain combat situations, but apparently standing in a tight formation on foot, facing other knights on foot, while having a huge missile advantage, was not one of them for Henry V, despite it seeming a perfect kind of situation. No cavalry charge on either side and no sizeable amount of missiles aimed at him. Of course, that is only an n = 1, but it might be an indication. Though, it was the layered protection saved his life, apparently, which might be why he wore it.
I also find arguments about what people today find difficult to use to be a bit suspect, most of the time. When most civilians try on a full modern military combat kit they find it almost inconceivable to fight in. Fighting in a great helm was probably a skill, and with the more limited ventilation physically demanding, which may perhaps be a reason we almost exclusively see man-at-arms use them. And thereby a status symbol, probably why great helms essentially became the "heraldic helmet". That does of course not mean that you would always want to fight in one as a knight, even the King of Norway fought with a kettle hat once in the early 1200s.
@@Osvath97 I'm curious what source states that Henry V was wearing a great helm specifically and not a great bascinet at Agincourt? I'm familiar with the story of his crown being damaged by the Duke of Alencon, but I'm under the impression that despite earlier association, Henry's funerary helm has long been divorced from that story by most scholars. Dr. Toby Capwell is pretty clear that the helm, regardless of whether it was actually worn by Henry at any point is definitively a jousting helm. Regardless, remember that Henry was famously shot in the face 12 years earlier, so even he didn't always think layering was necessary in actual combat.
Hey I hope someone could answer my question. Was there an option that knight or any warrior used only a leather or woolen coif, a chainmail coif on it and the great helm on top of it (or some close combination, not sure of the proper names) instead of the secret helmet?
Dear Sir Ian, I wish to ask do you have a video on pauldrons or splinted armor?
Definitely do a video on the Frogmouth!
In as much as my Dr would like me to avoid a 10th concussion and 5th KO I'm looking very strongly at either a Helm/Greathelm combo and then tell all shots by sound, or a Klappavisor bacinet with a suspension harness backed up by anticoncussion padding & sorbothane. Thoughts?
A question in regards to Great Helms. The Great Helms with horns and shapes on the sides of the helm, which from my understanding was popular with German knights. What material were they made of and how were they attached?
Light carved hardwoods, molded leather and even papier mache from my understanding, but like +ultraboy222 said a lot of that was for tournament use, ceremonial, or funerary.
ok I checked but didnt see my biggest question (I may have missed it) at 2:49 whats with the horses in the tapestry???
That thing is HUMONGOUS! D:
Another great video answering my questions. Did the great helm fade out because they realized how much more convenient it was to hinge a face plate on a bassinet as opposed to carrying two helmets and slinging a huge helm on your back?
Also, I've heard that the use of knights in warfare became obsolete because of the effectiveness of longbows at Agincourt. Why do you suppose helmets continued evolving after the early 15th century? Tournaments?
I saw the real helmet this was based on in person, I think the bit of trim on it was gold coloured.
If you can get a hold of one i'd love to see a video about Frog-mouth Great Helmets.
To me it seems they are designed for looking straight ahead, for the charge and getting through the arrow storm.
Other than the Henry V example shown in the video, do you know of any extant helmets which exhibit features between those of the Great and Frogmouth Helms?
the Necks these guys must've had, I couldn't imagine the weight of two relatively large helmets on ones neck, not to mention the Aventail, Dang.
The great helm looks like the Earl of Pembridge's. Great vid Have subbed you
13:00 he kinda looks like the French taunter from Monthy Phyton and the Holy grail.
I'm quite new to armour, but don't you need an arming cap under a helmet? Does the bascinet already have padding inside?
One of my favorites is the frogmouth
What you did not touch upon however are the depictions of what seems to be visored great helms in a lot of early-mid 14th century artwork.
great helmets are my favorite
+Knight Errant very cool man I love this video, but how many hits with a mace will it take to kill a guy in the Great helm. Also do all Knights wear arming cap and chainmail hood with their helmets
Well... no knight is going to stand there and let someone continually beat them over the head with a mace, but the idea is that the shape of the helmet helps shed the blow and of course you have another helmet on underneath. No, you wouldn't wear a padded cap and mail hood under all of those layers.
Knyght Errant
thanks man I love ur channel, did u already see the ten terryfying facts about knights by mind warehouse. Well either way thanks
X Infinity Yes, I've seen that video and it's absolutely horrible :)
Knyght Errant 1 HOUR TO TAKE OFF ARMOR LOL
They were designed for a specific purpose, the charge. Hence limited visibility was ok, it was hi diddle, straight up the middle.
Excellent, as usual. I could tell you are a Navy Man.
Ian, I have always been a fan of Mac's work, who is the owner of that Great helm?
Do you happen to know the thicknesses of these helmets by any chance? i'm working on a replica of these and i'm not sure if weightwise would it work to have 2mm thick greathelm with 2mm thick bascinet or would be way too heavy? i have access to 1,5mm thick steel and 2mm, and i would want the bascinet to function in itself aswell as a helmet. do you have any suggestions or ideas sir?
Another great video, do you think that something like a great helm would only be carried around if the person knew they were going into battle, or did they roam the country side with it hanging off their shoulder (or on top of their head/in their saddlebags)?
+zarbran While I don't know for sure, I would guess that people wouldn't keep their great helm slung over their shoulder unless they expected to need it on short notice.
before the bascinet you need padded coif, it add +5 Bonus Blunt Defend.
I love the dedication you put into this! Thank you thank you so much. I have so much fun learning from your videos!
I wonder if a type of later greathelm(like the frog mouth) could've been used as an outer helmet that rests on shoulders attached to the breastplate and the visor would be oriented in a way to allow view angles +/-100 degrees by rotating head withing the helmet. The greater extension and greater weight(and thus rigidity via supporting ribs) would allow to take blows from maces, warhammers and polaxes which wouldn't translate directly to the head but rather your whole body.
A lot of later helms like the frog mouth (and even other types of helmet like the great bascinet) were bolted or strapped directly to the cuirass and supported by the torso to produce the effect you describe.
I am on the great bascinet atm)) Btw don't you think that Sallet was partially popular because of easier manufacturing?
btw I'd really like if you showed the insides of the helmets too. To see how the padding and straping is done.
Headcanon: Originally known as the great helm, in later periods as the pretty good helm.
Were all helmets of this style used as large great helms over bascients or were there also smaller variations worn on their own?
It seems to me that while people complain about limited vision, this may mean that it's designed for a direct charge then may be thrown over the shoulder then relying on the other for protection in the Mele
I think there was step between nasal face protection and full facemasks. At least in the holy roman empire there existed some kind of inverted t-shaped face protections (second half of 12th century) which were the link between those two (nasal and face mask). Great videos btw and greetings from Germany.
+tondu5634 Thanks, and yes there are all kinds of 'in-between' styles of helmets out there. Hopefully in the future I will have more time to cover some of the more obscure stuff!
I'm wondering, how does the great helm affect your hearing?
Now I prefer the flat top great helm because my neck breaking when the top of the helm is hit it fun
only time i can see the use of the great helm is either under heavy fire or in a mounted charge
The great helmet is crazy
the great helm is my second favorite helmet
Good video, could you tell me what is the picture you show at 1:38? I'd love to know where you got it from and where it originated :)
+Stephan Barbarian manuscriptminiatures.com/4087/12054/
Wonderful, thanks a lot!
Knyght Errant, I love your videos they are very well thought out and presented. I'm a fan. If I may opine from personal experience. You stated at approximately 14:35 that it wouldn't be good for the helm to transfer force to the shoulders. It is in fact the best consequence to happen if struck a strong blow from above. One is wearing good shoulder and body armor. When struck, the suspension gives/stretches allowing the helm and force to be transferred into the body armor and effectively dissipated. One hears it but it is of no consequence. If properly fitted, the helm rides about one finger width above your armor. This allows for good head movement. As you can see from your wonderful presentations of helm pictures, the helms are low in the front and back, arcing over the shoulders. The helm you were wearing, sat very near to your shoulders. If you would have shrugged, the helm would have slightly lifted. This is in fact the test to see if your helm is properly seated. I have fought full contact with steel weapons for years. When struck by a 7 foot poleaxe (happens very frequently #russianaxskill) it is merely very loud and not debilitating. I would very much enjoy meeting you at one of our steel fighting events. I think you would enjoy it greatly. For those interested, we can be found by searching Historic Medieval battle or HMB. Also battle of nations. There are tons of video for your enjoyment here on youtube. Cheers and keep up the good work.
Thank you! I'm in full agreement. This is why a Great Bascinet or stechelm is superior in protection compared to most any other helmet as that is it's primary mode of protection (taking the head and cervical spine out of the harm's way), however, as you said, it's all predicated on the body armor being designed to marry with the helm itself so by extension it matters _when_ we're talking about. I would estimate that the 'pembridge' style of late 14th century Great Helm is probably the first style of helmet that took advantage of such a principle as it saw the first styles of body armors that could accommodate (especially since rigid back defense was finally catching up to the developing single piece breastplates), but it wasn't really until the early 15th century when the principle began being taken full advantage of.
Yes, this idea reach a pinnacle with the advent of the great or grand bassinet.
is this bascinet, worn underneath the great helmet, of the same type as worn with the pigface visor? (except for the pivot to attach the pigface ofcourse)
Ps, has the video "How a man shall be dressed for combat" (the one where you put on the armour step by step) been removed? I really used that video often to see the details of armor parts.
That particular one can't mount a visor, because as you noted, it has no pivots, but it's overall shape is not unlike a bascinet that _could_ have a visor mounted on it. If worn with a visor you couldn't wear the great helm anymore though. Even if the visor fit inside of the great helm, getting the two pairs of eye slits to line up would be a nightmare. I did remove the 'How a Man Shall Be Armed' video (well, I set it to private, I didn't delete it) because I no longer stand by some of the interpretations in that video. The arming clothes have some serious issues, and despite my best efforts to put annotations all over the video I think it was still giving people the wrong impression. I will be re-making the video with my current kit and hopefully higher production value when able.
has anyone done any experimental archeology on slinging the great helm on a chain
a helm for a charge directly at the enemy, then taken off for post charge melee.
Hey that seems cool
Dude,its difficult to imagine someone delivering a blow with such force that 2 separate helmets were warranted, especially given the vision you're sacrificing
It was primarily intended to receive a lance strike (both in war and tournament). That's a lot of force put into the tip of spearhead, something on the order of 250J on up when used with an arret. Some speculate that the helm was removed or slung over the back after the initial cavalry charge when the fighting got in close.
Great Helms are great. I looked through your channel for Morion reviewing but found nothing. Just a suggestion, or I missed it.
I have always thought knights were so cool were do buy the armor?
2:47 Those horses! Where is that image from?
+ZiePe manuscriptminiatures.com/4136/8517/
+Mike Wazofski They're supposed to be fighting.
+Knyght Errant Thank you, Sir!
I am sad I discovered this video so late. Pretty good information for a fan of great helms like me. Only thing I hate is how the rounded top of the helm looks worse than the flat top. At least same physics rules don't apply to video game armours xD