Hello Knyght Errant, Matt Easton brought me here again. Beautiful to see how your channel had developed in the last months. Great videos. Can I share this particular one with our community on social media? I think many people will be interested in this information. :) Thank you.
+Warhorse Studios Thank you! Absolutely, please share! I'm really enjoying the Alpha of Kingdom Come, you guys are doing great work, and I know people like me are very happy to see what you're doing!
+PromptLP Yeah, but Bethesda does only have their one Fallout beer, we do have our four Kingdom Come Deliverance beers... thats the main difference ;) Vielen Dank für deine Unterstützung. :)
I wanted to point out that I'm really glad you've been mentioning breathing as important aspects with the helms. It's not obvious when people wear them briefly, but once you've done any sort of fighting or other activity in which you expend a lot of energy, it becomes an issue that the CO2 builds up in helms pretty quickly. In our armored combat, frequently we end up doing a large blowing exhale, to blow the air out through the breath holes and get some fresh air in afterward.
I swear the best thing about your videos is the bit at the end where you overlay yourself talking on 4 other videos, i don't know why it cracks me up so much, but it does
Well i do at least, i'd say the people who don't are missing out haha Btw, are you still planning to do a separate video on comparing your two visors? i just recently got a Bascinet with a visor that is also based on the Churburg CH16, and after using it for a bit i would like to hear your thoughts on how it compares to the Wallace one (as i do not own one in that style)
I do plan on making a video about vision in those visors. I'm trying to devise a way to test measurable field of view so it's not just me sitting there saying "Yeah, I think I can see a little more now..."
Yeah fair enough, trying to empirically test it doesn't seem particularly easy, getting a GoPro or something under the visor seems like a pain in the ass. The only thing i can really think of is perhaps getting two pieces of paper, putting the visors on and roughly drawing around where the edge of your vision is. might be a bit fiddly, need to keep your head at a set distance, but not too far away so that you can draw etc, but that might be a good way to compare the sight pictures of the two visors in a side-by-side comparison.
The fact that there are historical examples of chains that were attached to these little pins that hold the visor made me smile. I sometimes forget that medieval people would have struggled with some of the same little day to day problems we have today. Like misplaced small items that you just cant find when you need them. I can just picture a mighty knight wanting to leave for a war or a tournament, looking for the pins to hold his visor and not being able to find them. Eventually having all his family, his squire and other household members looking for them. Slowly loosing his cool because his traveling companions are waiting for him. Just like modern parents looking for their phone or glasses when they need to go to work. Losing the pins was probably more of a problem while traveling or campaigning (though a replacement wouldn't be hard to come by with a decent smith around). Anyway, a scenario like the one I have described must have happened at least sometimes, doesn't it?
You are the man ! You have been so helpful to me in my modifying my helmet . I am now working on the aventail . I did notice the way the maille is stitched to the leather is a running stitch rather than the looped stitch on the pictured historical Bascinet . Beautiful helmet it is , so I'm shure this is not an oversight , done by a sewing machine . I am 70 years old and finely living the dream of armor .
Just got a Bascinet of historical quality. A few things need improvement, as it is an off the shelf item, but you have been a great guide for historical armor!
The hinge/pin joint is actually necessary for proper operation of the raising and lowering of the visor. As you can see, the hinges are not parallel, therefore to raise in unison, they need lateral hinges, otherwise the visor would not open smoothly, if at all.
@8:13 That knight's tomb (gisant) is in my home town! It depicts a knight of the Obizzi family, which was exiled from the near Lucca at the beginning of the XIV century.
One thing I think would have been nice would have been having you speak through the various helmets, with the mic in front of you. Of course it's going to be muffled, but I'm curious as to how badly.
+Michael Eversberg II You mean with the visor down? What I may do is do an experiment outside where I do exactly that. Speak and yell commands or something with the visor up and then with the visor down so you can hear the difference.
Knyght Errant Exactly; it is a practical concern for a helmet, so I think it's fitting that your series explores it. Is this the final one for your kit, here? Shall we not expect anything new a while?
+Michael Eversberg II No, there are a couple more planned for the series (Kettle Helmets, probably a shorter featurette on throat defense specifically), and I've got a list of ideas for other videos as well that will explore more specifics and have more demonstrations. I've added your idea to my list. I agree, it's definitely a concern, and something medievals would have had to deal with.
Knyght Errant Good to hear there's more. You are well spoken; your military background does credit. I look forward to the kettle helm - back when I first started getting into this kind of stuff years ago, kettle helms were my de-facto #1 favorite. Have you considered weapon presentations? I spy a ballock dagger on your shelf, and surely you've arms fitting your harness? Cheers!
In the heat of battle it would be very hard to accurately get a weapon in those tiny holes, and the defender definitely won't let you get something in their face long enough for you to land a precise shot
I used to hate pigface and hounskull bascinets just as late as last week, however these last days I've oddly been starting to get charmed by them Damn you Ian and your charming charismatic beard ;)
I kinda prefer bascinets to armets and armets to sallets and sallets to barbutes off to the side are Roman and Viking style helms as well as Persian/mongol which I like a lot but not as much as bascinets
I was told that one disadvantage of the hound-skull visor when fighting on foot is that if offers a large lever to a blow coming from the side, which creates a massive strain on your neck at the impact. What do you think about it ?
+jancello It does create a lever arm, but I think that happening in practice would be more a result of bad luck than intentional. There are a lot better targets on an armored man than trying to strike laterally at the end of the snout of houndskull. I'm willing to bet it's massive popularity suggests that the benefits of the design outweighed the disadvantages, of which the torquing of your neck is one. It's another reason to do assymetrical breaths on the visor. You don't want the tip of lance to snag a breath and snap your head to the side.
+Knyght Errant Thank you for the answer ! The hypothesis of my friend was that hound-skylls were predominantely cavalry visors, where the main menace is arrows and lances, and that more low-profile visors were used for foot combat. But that bias might come from the fact that he's doing some reenactment fighting, where people are bashing at the armor and such blows to the visor are more likely to happen.
There's just far too much evidence that houndskull visors were used on foot to relegate it to a cavalry visor. The visor styles seem to be more regional preferences than 'troop type' preference. Klappvisors were more favored in Germanic regions and parts of Northern Italy, but France and England are dominated by houndskulls. Consider that England's preference was to fight on foot anyway, and they were still wearing houndskulls, not shallow visors. Also consider that in most reenactment fighting 'edged weapons' are all really maces in drag because of the safety rules. So most weapons behave like impact weapons, which can skew observation.
One thing you didn't mention is that for a brief period in the 1330s-1350s bascinets had this plate onder the chin as well. You can see it for example on the effigy of Sir Hugh Hastings. It looks ridiculous but apparently it was a thing in that era.
its interesting seeing that films will reproduce bascinets right down to having the aventail attachment holes and verveilles but not include it or have the actor wearing a coif under it, they went to the trouble of doing some research but couldn't figure out dressing them right
In France the name for this helmet is "Bassinet à bec de Passereau" (pronounce Basseeney ha beck de passerow). It means Bascinet with Passereau's beak, and guess what is the Passereau ? A bird ;)
i didnt quite get why there is no mechanism to lock the visor in the closed state. if a strike would come from below, i imagine, it could throw the visor open and slide right into the wearer's face. for example, if a lance hits the "beak" from below, yanks the visor up and breaks, the splinters could probably be driven into the face of the wearer.
Knyght Errant, great detailed video! One quick question: how likely was it for the visor on the bascinet to either be forced open by an opponent (such as in grappling) or fall open if the man at arms should be knocked down hard? It does not seem to have anything holding it closed except gravity and friction on the hinges. Were there ever any kinds of clips or buckles to hold the visor closed!
+Phillip 053 There is no evidence for any mechanical device to keep the visor closed. It shouldn't really be falling open from gravity, but it's certainly a technique to attempt to lift your opponents visor to kill them. In many cases the need to be able to quickly lift your own visor to take a breath or shout commands would in my opinion outweigh the benefit of locking it down. It requires a certain amount of fine motor skill and time to fiddle with locking mechanisms, especially with a gauntlet on (and presumable a weapon in hand) that might prevent you from getting it raised when you need to.
Good video, definitely improved my opinion of the hounskull bascinet. Frankly, I always thought they looked rather silly, but this has definitely increased my understanding of its' value on a battlefield.
+Xanatos712 You get a little more low vision from the Wallace A69 visor because of the 'mouth' as compared to the Churburg #16 visor. You get an awareness of where you're stepping, but it's certainly a concern. Seeing a low blow however is not a matter of seeing the head of your opponent's pollaxe for example, but seeing his upper body and shoulders moving. You would know full well that the weapon is coming in low and have a really good idea exactly where based on the other visual cues even if you didn't see the business end of the weapon unhindered.
It's kind of geographically dependent. In England, for example, most visored bascinets were of a side-hinging houndskull shape. Most French artwork shows the same. In Germany, where klappvisor style hinges were more common, even then some of them utilize a klappvisor pivot, but are still long and pointy, so they're still houndskull/pig face visors. You see more variation in Italy with houndskulls, klappvisors and some other styles of visors making appearances.
Thanks for replying. By the way, is the visored bascinet that the Warden wears in For Honor historically accurate? I'm asking because I see that visor a lot in reproductions for sale online.
Yeah; in fact I first thought it was a visored barbute and was really disappointed. But the visor is never raised in any of the trailers so it's hard to tell. Another problem is, while the armour is customizable, the only other helmet they've shown so far is a flat-topped great helm. A flat-topped great helm when the soldier uses a longsword and the rest of the Warden's armour is 14th-Century.
Isnt the Churburg visor field of view even a bit wider? Also, IMHO, an interesting bit would be on the vertical span of the field of view! Maybe shown from the side, with angles materialised by string, or drawing in post prod, to show what is covered as what distance, usefull to show from what distance an attack is perfectly in view and how close it has to be to be partly or totally obscured! (ie the good ol' dagger to the groin at grappling distance)
+siouxsettewerks Hi, I actually have most of your suggestion already planned as a future video! I hope to address the functional comparison between the two visors in it and experiment with a lot of your suggestions.
Dear Ian, I would like to know, if there is any particular advantage to the Klappvisier, compared to side-pivots. First I thought the one might just have been a more "primitive" precursor to the other, but then remembered you saying that the earliest visors in fact did have side-pivots (around 4:45 in the video). Then again, the Klappvisier was fairly particular to Germany, according to you. Were these then in fact the earliest visors in Germany (and hence introduced later than the "early" one in other places), or could they be seen more as an experiment before reverting back to the older technique?
+Serpent@Eden You do see klappvisors outside of Germany as well (Northern Italy and even the rare example on effigies in England), but they definitely seem to be more common there. I think more than anything else, Klappvisors evolved out of the Bretache (the nasal that secures in the same spot). The bretache was also popular in Germany. My opinion is that as they started to find the bretache was providing inadequate coverage, and they figured out a way to expand it into a visor while using a similar mechanism to secure to the front center of the skull, and thus the klappvisor was born. I don't own a klapp anymore, but when I did I seem to remember the visor being a bit easier to remove (especially with the helmet still on your head) but that may just be an incidental difference.
Your videos are so awesome man! I just discovered them today and have been binging on all your videos. I love the demonstrations as well as the historical facts. Keep up the good work!
+The Blind Leader Hopefully, eventually... Behind the houndskull bascinet, the armet is definitely one of favorites. I'd love to have a mid to late 15th century Milanese harness with an armet! If I ever go t hat direction, you can bet I will do videos about it.
Hi Knyght Errant, amazing videos! Love your thorough referencing to historical sources. I have a question about one of those examples, the image from 2:30-2:40 that depicts 3 men in open faced bascinets. My question is regarding their leg/foot protection? The king on the left is clearly wearing fully inclosed plate greaves with maille sabatons, but what are the other two wearing??! Coat of Plate hose? Scale hose? It doesn't look like anything else I've seen and it's definitely not how maille is typically drawn? Could it just be artistic license?
It's hard to say. The one on the right looks very much like a scale leg covering since it's not drawn like the mail anywhere else in the image. The middle one is very strange, but appears to show something with small iron plates, perhaps like the surviving 'panzerhosen' from the Bayerisches Museum (www.pinterest.com/pin/294845106830795725/).
Well there you go! That is very strange haha. I guess wearing scale on the legs would make more sense too, as an enemy is less likely to be able the stab in an upwards manner to get under the scales. Impressive knowledge as always! Thank you and keep up the good work!!
Found a few examples of scale sabatons too, but couldn't find any that covered from the knee down. au.pinterest.com/pin/75857574946592600/ au.pinterest.com/pin/370139663104607941/
I really do love this helmet, it's just the overall design of it, very fluid, that attracts me to it. Side note do you ever find that clinging sound from the chain that attaches to the visor funny or enjoyabl in any way, I for one find it soothing?
Thanks! When I'm wearing the helmet, to be honest, I barely notice the sound of the visor pin chain. The experience of wearing armor is not a quiet one, and I find any sound the chain makes to fade into the rest of the background noise.
I'm interested in your comment about left vs right handedness. I know that in the 19th and early 20th century (even in my parent's childhood) schools would try and force right handedness but I've never assumed that was the case all the way back in history. For example in at least some of the medieval gloss's of the Liechtenauer's longsword treatise then there are instructions on the right kind of actions to take if you're right or left handed...
The discouragement of left-handedness in normal life is anecdotal to the best of my knowledge (springing from things like the connotation of left being evil, as reinforced in the language by things like the Latin word for _left_ being _sinister_), but it serves a very practical purpose in the context of warfare in the way it was being fought at the time. In the context of a judicial combat or a one-on-one deed of arms, fighting either handed is not a problem, and may even have its advantages. Fighting in warfare in a line with other men at arms, or in a cavalry formation, the circumstances will require a more practical synergy between individuals. Then more formally, in things like a regulated joust, obviously the lyst is designed to force left to left passage. There are no exceptions that I've ever seen in both survivals and artwork of an armor set up in reverse, i.e., a more reinforced right side both in field armors and sport armors. It's virtually *always* the left side that is more well defended in the event of asymmetrical armor (from both the standpoint of reinforcements or the piercing of a visor with breaths) and I normally hate using anything approaching an absolute.
That's very interesting. I wonder to what extent this only related to military endeavours or class and to what extent it permeated the rest of life. Would a farmer be allowed to be left handed or a scribe? If it was a widespread common suppression I wonder what extent that was the result of these military considerations or other activities in life?
That's a good question, and I wonder the same thing. I don't know if it was really a widespread cultural thing, or if it was mostly just relegated to a military context where you'd get the same effect of sitting next to a left-handed person at the dinner table bumping arms all the time :) If it went beyond that, was it a spillover from martial culture, or was it already part of the mindset? Interesting stuff...
As someone who fight left handed in lines, it has both advantages and disadvantages. I do get a fair deal of that struggle where the person next to me has their shield bumb into mine all the time. At the same time, having a leftie in the lines can be real good, but it does demand an extra level of awareness. Still, not as big of a deal as some think
Even with a visor that has raised eye slits like the hounskull, the visibility isn't as bad as some people may think. Breathing, on the hand, is a real problem. :)
Knyght Errant the happy looking helmets are scarier than the serious looking ones now that i think about it. cause if you're on a battlefield killing people with a big grin on your helmets face its a lot more sadistic looking.
+Knyght Errant, can you let me know what manuscript the image at 0:40 is from and/or the country and period? It looks 13th century and I'm interested in the weapon, looks like some sort of early Bill but I can't tell if it's one or two handed.
I also found this channel thanks to Matt Easton. I got a question for you: Why did you get this type of armor made instead of later types of mid fifteenth century armor? To me the North Western European (England, France and Burgundy) type of armor with a sallet remains the most beautiful armor.
+DushinSC PS, I am not entirely sure about the lance thing. Holding it over the head of the horse at an angle assists in breaking it in joust type sporting events, keeping the angle as small as possible and using it at the right side allows for more force to be transmitted before the lance snaps. There is plenty of pictorial evidence showing a lance being used like that so I reckon the melee argument is the more probable reason. Even on horseback where defending the left side with a sword is harder.
+DushinSC While I also love the aesthetic of 15th century armor (I'm a sucker for late 15th century Milanese with an armet), when I think of a 'knight' I always envision the Englishman on the fields of Poitiers or Agincourt. I've always been drawn to the history surrounding Edward III and Henry V and it was the kit I wanted to develop. I also belong to a living history club in the Eastern US that focuses on scenarios in the 1380s to early 15th century.
The overwhelming majority of bascinets that appear in visual sources without aventails are almost always open-faced bascinets that don't appear to have ever had a visor. The aventail seems to have been a pretty universal component of a visored bascinet.
@@KnyghtErrant Ah, ok thank you. Recently I saw a modern interpretation of a houndskull which actually looked quite good to me. Good shape of the helmet, nice visor etc. But it was lacking the attachment for the aventail and I actually got curious if the manufacturer simply knew more than I do or if they just missed it.
@@Timbo_Boy There are some examples of visual sources that show aventails that appear to be attached internally to the helmet's skull so there are no verveilles sticking out of the helmet, but a totally omitted aventail would be very atypical for a fully visored bascinet.
9:14 wow the helmet you have facing the camera looked like an overlaid image, I honestly thought it was just something you pasted on top of the video - it looked blurry and the angle was weird. Then you touched it... xD freaky, took me by surprise.
There are some examples where they make holes around the eye slot but they're not very common. They significantly weaken the structure of the metal around the eye slot (which is the same reason you often only have breathing holes on one side of many helmets). Historical eye slots tend to be very narrow because ever millimeter wider you make it is more of a chance for a weapon to enter, and in many cases that's one of the few spots where it's game over immediately should a weapon defeat it, especially on horseback. In close-in fighting we often see the visor discarded or worn up, but on horseback it's often worn down because the face is the primary target for an opposing lance and the head of a war lance is narrow enough to get in that slot.
Knyght Errant thats interesting. Never would have thought but it makes a lot of sense that they used it more on horses. I never understood why a few mm-s would count for anything when they already defend their faces in a duel. This clears it up. Does this mean crusader era knights used horses more often than not? Or is it just folklore that most of the time they were wearing their greathelm? Also thanks for answering I didnt think you yourself would answer. Great content btw :)
I always wondered what the inside of the helmet looks like. I'm assuming that it's not just empty like a bowl otherwise it would wobble on your head. Is there some kind of harness system for your head set up? I'm imagining something like the harnesses in the modern Kevlar helmet.
Hi Knyght Errant, first off ,great video, it realy was helpful and full of new knowledge that I am interested in. I was able to get a wonderfull houndskull bascinet from a czech smith and need a aventail for it. I´ve searched for a while now ,but haven´t found a fitting one yet. Have you got any advice? Where have you got yours? I hope you can help me. Greetings Hans
How do you exactly spell out the nasal protection of the early Bascinets? Portache? Portage? Something else? Is it a French term? Would be totally cool whenever you name something unconventional that you add it in the description or blend it in the video.
That may be so, but you may actually have more of a chance of keeping it intact if you can see and breathe better, thus giving you more situational awareness to a potential threat, at least that's what a lot of historical images suggest :)
Other equally as effective styles just became more popular due to fashion preferences among plate armored warriors changing Humans have always cared about fashion and being “in style” it seems
21:50 what I've heard is that left handed soldiers were paid double, because they came in handy when taking towers that had staircases curving to the right
Why was the great helm worn over bascinet phased out in favour of a visor? Surely there is more protection on the sides/back/top with the extra helm. It would be much cheaper to produce visors rather than entire separate helmets though, I suppose.
+Glywysing 3rd quarter 14th century great helms don't glance as well as a later bascinet either. The great helm seems to have been mainly worn for the cavalry charge and discarded or slung over the back when a lot of the fighting got close. During the charge the most likely impact is going to be from the front, so the going theory is that even during the time of the Great Helms popularity, by the time the fighting got to the point where the sides, back and top of the head were more of a concern, you were probably only wearing a bascinet anyway. Not having to deal with a second helm is nice when you have a helmet that can fill both roles in one.
Knyght Errant Yeah that makes sense. It must've been incredibly awkward to fight with a great helm slung over your back, and I suppose only the most wealthy of nobles would be immediately willing to just discard the helm on the battlefield. Then again, the visor would have been pretty awkward, too - though perhaps a lot cheaper to replace.
Great video as always Ian. BTW is this bascinet of yours of a thicker, heavier construction compared to the open faced one you wore under the Great Helm last time? I would guess so. Thanks
+John Huang Probably a little bit, but mainly it's significantly bigger. The open-faced bascinet I had in the last video has been returned to its owner so I can't do a direct comparison (and I didn't think to do one when I had it in my possession).
Knyght Errant Hmm, I thought given that it has to serve as a standalone defense without the great helm on top of it would mean that it would have and could afford to be of significantly thicker construction. Anyway thanks I dont imagine that great helm would work well for a combat on foot compared to this bascinet?
So, this is a problem with modern reproductions, not comparable to originals. If my standalone bascinet had been raised from one piece of steel, it would definitely be a lot thicker at the top than at the sides, so comparing things like thickness in modern reproductions reveals one of the shortcomings of how they are made. The open-faced bascinet I had showed was also mild steel, my houndskull is 0.3% carbon and hardened, so it's not directly comparable. You can certainly get modern reproductions done as a single piece raised helmet, but that's more than I can afford :) I definitely prefer a visored bascinet to a great helm + smaller bascinet for use on foot, but that's my personal preference.
Knyght Errant Thanks, yeah the modern reproduction certainly lacked a lot of the features we find in the original pieces. BTW how much did your houndskull weight, with aventail and everything? I'd guess something in the vicinity of 10 lbs? I didnt imagine that you get to weight the other bascinet and great helm?
Last night I watched Wikimedia commons cathegory medieval helmets I was fascinated to find more than a thousand different helmets preserved both in shape and details
I have a question, which somewhat bothers me. Couldn't a glancing blade (or some spiky thing) of an attacker get stuck between the "nose" pease and the highlightet area of the occulus and thus project all it's force onto this exact spot? Don't think that it is this kind of big deal, since it seems to have been very common, but still looks like a small weakness.
I would think that would be more likely on a totally static object. The person wearing it is going to be in relatively constant motion making that possibility relatively low. A moving helmet is always going to encourage the weapon to glance off the helmet more than a still helmet. At the end of the day, every armor has weaknesses, the trick is to try and minimize letting people exploit them.
I love your videos, very informative and entertaining. The Kit and gear seen in them is quite lovely, which brings me to an amusing discovery. I have come across snapshots of two helmets i seen in your content, the Bascinet and the other helmet with a visor, I forget its name. and put em up on ebay, I saw them and kinda rasied an eyebrow, as well they are of course being sold out of India. Just figured I would mention this in case you were unawares.
Hi thanks. Yes, many eBay sellers from India routinely steal photographs from competent armorers and fraudulently use them to sell knock-offs. Unfortunately, there's not much we can do about it other than make sure people are aware that they are indeed frauds.
@@KnyghtErrant It is unfortunate this happens, I almost fell prey to this concerning a wolf pelt. When I saw the helmet i immediately was skeptical, a helmet like that for 200 bucks?. I am just glad to be able to bring awareness to folk about this.
Did they use any kind of chin strap? I'm a long time SCA fighter who fights in a klapvisor bascinet and from experience a blow to the helm without a chin strap will rotate or shift the helm reducing the function. You just can't say "wait a minute" while you readjust your helm.
There is virtually no evidence for their use in bascinets in the context of warfare. If there was one, it would have to be sewn to the liner since there are no holes positioned for a chin strap on surviving bascinets. A very well fitted aventail would keep the helm in place pretty well. There is evidence in artwork for a strap on the backplate going under the bascinet to potentially keep the helmet from falling off as you lean or fall forward though. A thing to consider is a powerful strike to the helmet from a lance or pole weapon can injure you more if the helmet is tightly buckled around the chin. A bit of an anecdote; some members of the Russian Battle of the Nations team have warned people to not wear chin straps on their bascinets because of the force of a blow being driven straight into the jaw instead of simply letting the helmet get rocked.
Sounds reasonable. With my just my aventail my helm is pretty secure. I know a with a chin strap a strong (over powered) thrust to the face can leave my jaw a bit sore. Thanks!
How does the Bascinet stay on your head? Unlike the Armet, it seems easy to just slide on and off. I'm sure a leather strap could be used, depending on the flexibility of the Aventail, but were any devices used to secure the helm?
The aventail alone does a pretty decent job of keeping the helmet on your head. Modernly a lot of people fight in bascinets without any sort of retention and it's only during wrestling that I ever see the helmets come off. This is actually shown in some historical fighting treatises. In the late 14th century we do see some artwork that shows a strap emerging from underneath the back of the aventail, securing the helmet down to whatever back defense the person is wearing. This will prevent the above described problem, and is used with success in some modern contexts as well.
What period would be suitable for a Wenzel style bascinet? My research showed 1390-1400, but I have seen other manuscripts dating from earlier in the 14th century with what looks like the same type of bascinet
I notice that this helm seems to be worn without any additional arming cap, just the liner in the helm itself. Is this just for expedience for this video or does the liner eliminate the need for a padded cap? Is there a date or regional difference for when a padded cap would be used vs a padded liner?
+DoktorWeasel Every surviving bascinet that I'm aware of has holes drilled in it for a liner along the edges. I've never found the need for an additional padded cap when wearing a helmet with a sufficiently padded integral liner. You see the ties of textile coifs sticking out of helmets now and then in some manuscript illuminations but usually much earlier and often with much less substantial helmets, but with bascinets it's very hard to tell if something was worn under them because of the fact that you'd never see it from the outside.
Piotr had a friend of his do the aventail, so when I received the helmet everything was already in place. The only thing I did when I got the helmet was modify the liner to make it adjustable.
Alright good to know I haven't been able to find a Hounskull with an aventail that I like. Btw are you going to make any videos about your sword? I've seen it quite a bit in some of the pictures you've displayed but I don't think you've ever talked about it.
nvm about the sword just realized you talked about it on the harness video still would be cool to see all of the swords and weapons you own though if that isn't the only one.
Hi Ian, do you know if there are known types of historically correct, side pivoted bascinets, for the late 14th century, that are not like the "houndskull"? Like, with the visor less pointy. I love your work by the way, I always find a lot of interesting things! Ps. Another question: Do you know if klappvisors are still in large use, like in the middle of the century, in its late part??
Late 14th century Italian sources (and some other regions) show side-pivoting visors like this (s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/0a/56/83/0a5683846c88e1dc865ab4fab07ebc15.jpg). Some people modernly call them 'snow-plow' style visors. Klappvisors didn't really show up until around 1360 (with a few possible depictions before that) and they remained in use in some form until close to 1440 depending on the region you're looking at. Remember though that klappvisor refers only to the method of attachment (i.e, a center pivot) not the style of visor. There are houndskull klappvisors for example.
Are you aware of, or familiar with, anyone who does performance tests on helmets? I am curious to know just how much stronger asymmetrical visor with no breaths is versus the side with breaths in it, against various impacts.
There's a channel called "Armor Smith" you can check out if you haven't found them already. Mostly it's him either making armor or talking about it, but there are a few destruction tests too. The channel name is actually longer than just Armor Smith but it's how I find them when TH-cam randomly decides to remove my subscriptions now and again.
I prefer not to discuss the specific price of my armor because it has little relevance to what others will spend on armor. There are so many different grades of armor and within each grade, so many different variables that have a wild effect on the final cost of armor that it's very difficult to give an answer. How accurate you want the shaping to be, how polished it will be, the materials, whether or not it's heat treated, the decoration, the period of armor you're interested in, etc... If you're talking about strict living history grade armor (i.e., armor that is shaped historically, no concessions for modern sport combat) then you can spend anywhere from a couple thousand dollars to tens of thousands of dollars depending on specifics.
+ferreus I own this (arms-n-armor.com/dagg110.html) and it can get about 1.5 inches into the barred ocular, not enough to reach my actual eyes or face.
This video helped me apprecviate the Bascinet a lot more. I'm not a huge fan of the houndskull visor aesthetic but some of the other options are really cool. Great video! Although it looks like I'm a little late on commenting.
Not sure how much of a real representation it would really provide, but it might be neat to get a view through the eye slits from inside with camera....perhaps with the right focal length might work.
I've experimented with that in the past and I've never been satisfied with the results. The real process that makes these visors work properly is our binocular vision. It helps make obstructions directly in front the eyes like the vertical bars, or breaths disappear from view to a certain extent which is very hard to convey in a photograph. Perhaps a stereo photograph at the right focal length and field of view could give something of the right impression. Further research indicated... :)
+clubinglex I would think it was more tied to the overall development and prevalence of plate armor in general, not specifically any type of helmet innovation.
after the invention of bascinet visor invention, weapons became bashing sticks and trust bar. No flesh was exposed, so i think that's why flat points where out of fashion. thanks for all the vids they are awesome :)
Nice video about one of my favorite helmets. What is your theory why the visor was removable? Do you also think, it's for fast remove after the first strike to see better in close combat?
+zappelzockt Being able to remove the visor allows you to use different visors for different situations (joust vs mounted combat vs foot combat). It seems like a lot of people chose to fight without a visor on foot as well, so perhaps the visor was discarded after a cavalry charge. It's hard to say exactly. I'm willing to bet visors were frequently replaced throughout the working life of the helmet as well. Even the famous Wallace A69 has a plugged hole in the forehead where a klappvisor hinge used to be mounted.
But if you can afford participating in tourneys, you also can afford a second helmet, I believe - so different situations seem a bit off, in my eyes. Replacing damaged visors could be also a cause. Do you have experiences in fighting? Are the pins a weak spot? I think, a glanced off stroke could hitch in the gap between the skull and the pin and rip the rivet off?
There are many occasions where one would where a bascinet without the visor at all, and you wouldn't want pins bouncing around and dangling in your face or snagging on things. The same set of pins should fit multiple visors though. Only some were actually chained to the visor.
How would these helmets hold up against pure blunt force weapons, such as war hammers? Would the helmet survive but the force be transferred to the wearer enough to cause unconsciousness?
+BloodofPatriots It would still be hard to get full purchase on the helmet because even a blunt object will want to slide off depending on the shape of it's striking surface. If you do catch it with full force, then the mass of the helmet and padding will provide some shock absorption, but depending on the power of the swing, the mass of the object being swung, and other factors it could still hit hard enough to cause unconsciousness or other injury. This is why the poleaxe is an effective weapon against an armored opponent.
For all the work he puts into these videos he deserves more views.
True
Hello Knyght Errant, Matt Easton brought me here again. Beautiful to see how your channel had developed in the last months. Great videos. Can I share this particular one with our community on social media? I think many people will be interested in this information. :)
Thank you.
+Warhorse Studios Thank you! Absolutely, please share! I'm really enjoying the Alpha of Kingdom Come, you guys are doing great work, and I know people like me are very happy to see what you're doing!
+Knyght Errant Great! Thank you :D
+PromptLP Yeah, but Bethesda does only have their one Fallout beer, we do have our four Kingdom Come Deliverance beers... thats the main difference ;)
Vielen Dank für deine Unterstützung. :)
+Warhorse Studios So glad to see you here, keep up the great work on Kingdom Come.
+DevinSmith56 Thank you. :)
26:05-26:13 “ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?!”
I wanted to point out that I'm really glad you've been mentioning breathing as important aspects with the helms. It's not obvious when people wear them briefly, but once you've done any sort of fighting or other activity in which you expend a lot of energy, it becomes an issue that the CO2 builds up in helms pretty quickly. In our armored combat, frequently we end up doing a large blowing exhale, to blow the air out through the breath holes and get some fresh air in afterward.
That is extremely fascinating, not something I've thought about before.
Could helmets have "chimneys" on top that lets hot air out?
I swear the best thing about your videos is the bit at the end where you overlay yourself talking on 4 other videos, i don't know why it cracks me up so much, but it does
People get that far in my videos? I'm impressed!
Well i do at least, i'd say the people who don't are missing out haha
Btw, are you still planning to do a separate video on comparing your two visors? i just recently got a Bascinet with a visor that is also based on the Churburg CH16, and after using it for a bit i would like to hear your thoughts on how it compares to the Wallace one (as i do not own one in that style)
I do plan on making a video about vision in those visors. I'm trying to devise a way to test measurable field of view so it's not just me sitting there saying "Yeah, I think I can see a little more now..."
Yeah fair enough, trying to empirically test it doesn't seem particularly easy, getting a GoPro or something under the visor seems like a pain in the ass. The only thing i can really think of is perhaps getting two pieces of paper, putting the visors on and roughly drawing around where the edge of your vision is. might be a bit fiddly, need to keep your head at a set distance, but not too far away so that you can draw etc, but that might be a good way to compare the sight pictures of the two visors in a side-by-side comparison.
The fact that there are historical examples of chains that were attached to these little pins that hold the visor made me smile. I sometimes forget that medieval people would have struggled with some of the same little day to day problems we have today. Like misplaced small items that you just cant find when you need them.
I can just picture a mighty knight wanting to leave for a war or a tournament, looking for the pins to hold his visor and not being able to find them. Eventually having all his family, his squire and other household members looking for them. Slowly loosing his cool because his traveling companions are waiting for him.
Just like modern parents looking for their phone or glasses when they need to go to work.
Losing the pins was probably more of a problem while traveling or campaigning (though a replacement wouldn't be hard to come by with a decent smith around). Anyway, a scenario like the one I have described must have happened at least sometimes, doesn't it?
You are the man ! You have been so helpful to me in my modifying my helmet . I am now working on the aventail . I did notice the way the maille is stitched to the leather is a running stitch rather than the looped stitch on the pictured historical Bascinet . Beautiful helmet it is , so I'm shure this is not an oversight , done by a sewing machine . I am 70 years old and finely living the dream of armor .
Just got a Bascinet of historical quality. A few things need improvement, as it is an off the shelf item, but you have been a great guide for historical armor!
The hinge/pin joint is actually necessary for proper operation of the raising and lowering of the visor. As you can see, the hinges are not parallel, therefore to raise in unison, they need lateral hinges, otherwise the visor would not open smoothly, if at all.
@8:13 That knight's tomb (gisant) is in my home town! It depicts a knight of the Obizzi family, which was exiled from the near Lucca at the beginning of the XIV century.
Thank you for linking me here. That's an astonishing better field of vision than I had imagined. Very great channel, sir.
One thing I think would have been nice would have been having you speak through the various helmets, with the mic in front of you. Of course it's going to be muffled, but I'm curious as to how badly.
+Michael Eversberg II You mean with the visor down? What I may do is do an experiment outside where I do exactly that. Speak and yell commands or something with the visor up and then with the visor down so you can hear the difference.
Knyght Errant Exactly; it is a practical concern for a helmet, so I think it's fitting that your series explores it. Is this the final one for your kit, here? Shall we not expect anything new a while?
+Michael Eversberg II No, there are a couple more planned for the series (Kettle Helmets, probably a shorter featurette on throat defense specifically), and I've got a list of ideas for other videos as well that will explore more specifics and have more demonstrations. I've added your idea to my list. I agree, it's definitely a concern, and something medievals would have had to deal with.
Knyght Errant Good to hear there's more. You are well spoken; your military background does credit. I look forward to the kettle helm - back when I first started getting into this kind of stuff years ago, kettle helms were my de-facto #1 favorite.
Have you considered weapon presentations? I spy a ballock dagger on your shelf, and surely you've arms fitting your harness?
Cheers!
+Michael Eversberg II Thank you. Weapons are on the list too, and some other accessories like the plaque belt and sword suspension etc...
In the heat of battle it would be very hard to accurately get a weapon in those tiny holes, and the defender definitely won't let you get something in their face long enough for you to land a precise shot
I used to hate pigface and hounskull bascinets just as late as last week, however these last days I've oddly been starting to get charmed by them
Damn you Ian and your charming charismatic beard ;)
Same I still favor Armets and Close helms tho
@jeanluc305 Ironic, considering the only hounskull in KCD looks like a cheap SCA repro, lol.
I personally like the Kettle helmet
I kinda prefer bascinets to armets and armets to sallets and sallets to barbutes off to the side are Roman and Viking style helms as well as Persian/mongol which I like a lot but not as much as bascinets
@@liammackenzie9283the zoul one is fine
I was told that one disadvantage of the hound-skull visor when fighting on foot is that if offers a large lever to a blow coming from the side, which creates a massive strain on your neck at the impact. What do you think about it ?
+jancello It does create a lever arm, but I think that happening in practice would be more a result of bad luck than intentional. There are a lot better targets on an armored man than trying to strike laterally at the end of the snout of houndskull. I'm willing to bet it's massive popularity suggests that the benefits of the design outweighed the disadvantages, of which the torquing of your neck is one. It's another reason to do assymetrical breaths on the visor. You don't want the tip of lance to snag a breath and snap your head to the side.
+Knyght Errant Thank you for the answer ! The hypothesis of my friend was that hound-skylls were predominantely cavalry visors, where the main menace is arrows and lances, and that more low-profile visors were used for foot combat. But that bias might come from the fact that he's doing some reenactment fighting, where people are bashing at the armor and such blows to the visor are more likely to happen.
There's just far too much evidence that houndskull visors were used on foot to relegate it to a cavalry visor. The visor styles seem to be more regional preferences than 'troop type' preference. Klappvisors were more favored in Germanic regions and parts of Northern Italy, but France and England are dominated by houndskulls. Consider that England's preference was to fight on foot anyway, and they were still wearing houndskulls, not shallow visors.
Also consider that in most reenactment fighting 'edged weapons' are all really maces in drag because of the safety rules. So most weapons behave like impact weapons, which can skew observation.
+Knyght Errant Thanks again for your valuable answers :)
One thing you didn't mention is that for a brief period in the 1330s-1350s bascinets had this plate onder the chin as well. You can see it for example on the effigy of Sir Hugh Hastings. It looks ridiculous but apparently it was a thing in that era.
Thanks for the thumbs up about Piotr Feret though. I intend to get a klappvisier bascinet from him.
Great videos in general, well researched and informative. I love the inset historical art. Thanks! I look forward to more.
its interesting seeing that films will reproduce bascinets right down to having the aventail attachment holes and verveilles but not include it or have the actor wearing a coif under it, they went to the trouble of doing some research but couldn't figure out dressing them right
It looks like a bird squinting its eyes.
I can now never unsee that. Thanks.
this is basically the best way to explain a bascinet
i am more surprised by how someone don't see that immediately
In France the name for this helmet is "Bassinet à bec de Passereau" (pronounce Basseeney ha beck de passerow). It means Bascinet with Passereau's beak, and guess what is the Passereau ? A bird ;)
Opium13 or pig
This man deserves more subscribers for the work he puts in!
This is my favorite helmet because it looks so comfortable.
i didnt quite get why there is no mechanism to lock the visor in the closed state. if a strike would come from below, i imagine, it could throw the visor open and slide right into the wearer's face. for example, if a lance hits the "beak" from below, yanks the visor up and breaks, the splinters could probably be driven into the face of the wearer.
th-cam.com/video/tDkB-zMUf7k/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Ynqaymla_mKjJTAe
Knyght Errant, great detailed video! One quick question: how likely was it for the visor on the bascinet to either be forced open by an opponent (such as in grappling) or fall open if the man at arms should be knocked down hard? It does not seem to have anything holding it closed except gravity and friction on the hinges. Were there ever any kinds of clips or buckles to hold the visor closed!
+Phillip 053 There is no evidence for any mechanical device to keep the visor closed. It shouldn't really be falling open from gravity, but it's certainly a technique to attempt to lift your opponents visor to kill them. In many cases the need to be able to quickly lift your own visor to take a breath or shout commands would in my opinion outweigh the benefit of locking it down. It requires a certain amount of fine motor skill and time to fiddle with locking mechanisms, especially with a gauntlet on (and presumable a weapon in hand) that might prevent you from getting it raised when you need to.
great video!!! the only thing i miss is the field of vision you get from the "mouth". thanks a lot!! cheerz
love my bascinet. dubbed the "visored bascinet" by marshal historical, it's so comfy and offers good vision. pretty good deal too.
The evolution of armor pieces is fascinating. Thank you.
Good video, definitely improved my opinion of the hounskull bascinet. Frankly, I always thought they looked rather silly, but this has definitely increased my understanding of its' value on a battlefield.
How's the vertical vision through that? I'd imagine one would have a hard time seeing where they're stepping or not see a low blow from an opponent.
+Xanatos712 You get a little more low vision from the Wallace A69 visor because of the 'mouth' as compared to the Churburg #16 visor. You get an awareness of where you're stepping, but it's certainly a concern. Seeing a low blow however is not a matter of seeing the head of your opponent's pollaxe for example, but seeing his upper body and shoulders moving. You would know full well that the weapon is coming in low and have a really good idea exactly where based on the other visual cues even if you didn't see the business end of the weapon unhindered.
How common/popular were bascinet visors that weren't the "pig face" visor? Also, just how many different types of visors were there for the bascinet?
It's kind of geographically dependent. In England, for example, most visored bascinets were of a side-hinging houndskull shape. Most French artwork shows the same. In Germany, where klappvisor style hinges were more common, even then some of them utilize a klappvisor pivot, but are still long and pointy, so they're still houndskull/pig face visors. You see more variation in Italy with houndskulls, klappvisors and some other styles of visors making appearances.
Thanks for replying. By the way, is the visored bascinet that the Warden wears in For Honor historically accurate? I'm asking because I see that visor a lot in reproductions for sale online.
It looks kind of like the made up visored barbute, - th-cam.com/video/gb1csnUeebo/w-d-xo.html
Yeah; in fact I first thought it was a visored barbute and was really disappointed. But the visor is never raised in any of the trailers so it's hard to tell. Another problem is, while the armour is customizable, the only other helmet they've shown so far is a flat-topped great helm. A flat-topped great helm when the soldier uses a longsword and the rest of the Warden's armour is 14th-Century.
That is my favourite type of helmet as well! Very informative video as always. Thank you ever so kindly for sharing your knowledge with us all.
Isnt the Churburg visor field of view even a bit wider?
Also, IMHO, an interesting bit would be on the vertical span of the field of view!
Maybe shown from the side, with angles materialised by string, or drawing in post prod, to show what is covered as what distance, usefull to show from what distance an attack is perfectly in view and how close it has to be to be partly or totally obscured!
(ie the good ol' dagger to the groin at grappling distance)
+siouxsettewerks Hi, I actually have most of your suggestion already planned as a future video! I hope to address the functional comparison between the two visors in it and experiment with a lot of your suggestions.
Dear Ian, I would like to know, if there is any particular advantage to the Klappvisier, compared to side-pivots. First I thought the one might just have been a more "primitive" precursor to the other, but then remembered you saying that the earliest visors in fact did have side-pivots (around 4:45 in the video). Then again, the Klappvisier was fairly particular to Germany, according to you. Were these then in fact the earliest visors in Germany (and hence introduced later than the "early" one in other places), or could they be seen more as an experiment before reverting back to the older technique?
+Serpent@Eden You do see klappvisors outside of Germany as well (Northern Italy and even the rare example on effigies in England), but they definitely seem to be more common there. I think more than anything else, Klappvisors evolved out of the Bretache (the nasal that secures in the same spot). The bretache was also popular in Germany. My opinion is that as they started to find the bretache was providing inadequate coverage, and they figured out a way to expand it into a visor while using a similar mechanism to secure to the front center of the skull, and thus the klappvisor was born. I don't own a klapp anymore, but when I did I seem to remember the visor being a bit easier to remove (especially with the helmet still on your head) but that may just be an incidental difference.
Your videos are so awesome man!
I just discovered them today and have been binging on all your videos. I love the demonstrations as well as the historical facts.
Keep up the good work!
Armet has got to be my favorite helmet, will you do a video about them eventually?
+The Blind Leader Hopefully, eventually... Behind the houndskull bascinet, the armet is definitely one of favorites. I'd love to have a mid to late 15th century Milanese harness with an armet! If I ever go t hat direction, you can bet I will do videos about it.
The Blind Leader armet and Close Helms are my favorite
Hi Knyght Errant, amazing videos! Love your thorough referencing to historical sources. I have a question about one of those examples, the image from 2:30-2:40 that depicts 3 men in open faced bascinets. My question is regarding their leg/foot protection? The king on the left is clearly wearing fully inclosed plate greaves with maille sabatons, but what are the other two wearing??! Coat of Plate hose? Scale hose? It doesn't look like anything else I've seen and it's definitely not how maille is typically drawn? Could it just be artistic license?
It's hard to say. The one on the right looks very much like a scale leg covering since it's not drawn like the mail anywhere else in the image. The middle one is very strange, but appears to show something with small iron plates, perhaps like the surviving 'panzerhosen' from the Bayerisches Museum (www.pinterest.com/pin/294845106830795725/).
Well there you go! That is very strange haha. I guess wearing scale on the legs would make more sense too, as an enemy is less likely to be able the stab in an upwards manner to get under the scales. Impressive knowledge as always! Thank you and keep up the good work!!
Found a few examples of scale sabatons too, but couldn't find any that covered from the knee down.
au.pinterest.com/pin/75857574946592600/
au.pinterest.com/pin/370139663104607941/
I really do love this helmet, it's just the overall design of it, very fluid, that attracts me to it. Side note do you ever find that clinging sound from the chain that attaches to the visor funny or enjoyabl in any way, I for one find it soothing?
Thanks! When I'm wearing the helmet, to be honest, I barely notice the sound of the visor pin chain. The experience of wearing armor is not a quiet one, and I find any sound the chain makes to fade into the rest of the background noise.
I'm interested in your comment about left vs right handedness. I know that in the 19th and early 20th century (even in my parent's childhood) schools would try and force right handedness but I've never assumed that was the case all the way back in history. For example in at least some of the medieval gloss's of the Liechtenauer's longsword treatise then there are instructions on the right kind of actions to take if you're right or left handed...
The discouragement of left-handedness in normal life is anecdotal to the best of my knowledge (springing from things like the connotation of left being evil, as reinforced in the language by things like the Latin word for _left_ being _sinister_), but it serves a very practical purpose in the context of warfare in the way it was being fought at the time. In the context of a judicial combat or a one-on-one deed of arms, fighting either handed is not a problem, and may even have its advantages. Fighting in warfare in a line with other men at arms, or in a cavalry formation, the circumstances will require a more practical synergy between individuals. Then more formally, in things like a regulated joust, obviously the lyst is designed to force left to left passage. There are no exceptions that I've ever seen in both survivals and artwork of an armor set up in reverse, i.e., a more reinforced right side both in field armors and sport armors. It's virtually *always* the left side that is more well defended in the event of asymmetrical armor (from both the standpoint of reinforcements or the piercing of a visor with breaths) and I normally hate using anything approaching an absolute.
That's very interesting. I wonder to what extent this only related to military endeavours or class and to what extent it permeated the rest of life. Would a farmer be allowed to be left handed or a scribe? If it was a widespread common suppression I wonder what extent that was the result of these military considerations or other activities in life?
That's a good question, and I wonder the same thing. I don't know if it was really a widespread cultural thing, or if it was mostly just relegated to a military context where you'd get the same effect of sitting next to a left-handed person at the dinner table bumping arms all the time :) If it went beyond that, was it a spillover from martial culture, or was it already part of the mindset? Interesting stuff...
As someone who fight left handed in lines, it has both advantages and disadvantages. I do get a fair deal of that struggle where the person next to me has their shield bumb into mine all the time. At the same time, having a leftie in the lines can be real good, but it does demand an extra level of awareness.
Still, not as big of a deal as some think
Even with a visor that has raised eye slits like the hounskull, the visibility isn't as bad as some people may think. Breathing, on the hand, is a real problem. :)
i cant unsee the huge, closed mouth grin on the bascinet's face.
+It's Just Milk I Swear That's just part of its charm :)
Knyght Errant the happy looking helmets are scarier than the serious looking ones now that i think about it. cause if you're on a battlefield killing people with a big grin on your helmets face its a lot more sadistic looking.
looks like he is high, high as fuck, especially when ian moved around!
+It's Just Milk I Swear it looks like a content mouse to me
+It's Just Milk I Swear Nothing like a slasher smile to make your opponent rethink their current situation.
+Knyght Errant, can you let me know what manuscript the image at 0:40 is from and/or the country and period? It looks 13th century and I'm interested in the weapon, looks like some sort of early Bill but I can't tell if it's one or two handed.
+Phill Lappin manuscriptminiatures.com/5572/19855/
Thanks heaps
no problem!
I also found this channel thanks to Matt Easton. I got a question for you: Why did you get this type of armor made instead of later types of mid fifteenth century armor? To me the North Western European (England, France and Burgundy) type of armor with a sallet remains the most beautiful armor.
+DushinSC PS, I am not entirely sure about the lance thing. Holding it over the head of the horse at an angle assists in breaking it in joust type sporting events, keeping the angle as small as possible and using it at the right side allows for more force to be transmitted before the lance snaps. There is plenty of pictorial evidence showing a lance being used like that so I reckon the melee argument is the more probable reason. Even on horseback where defending the left side with a sword is harder.
+DushinSC While I also love the aesthetic of 15th century armor (I'm a sucker for late 15th century Milanese with an armet), when I think of a 'knight' I always envision the Englishman on the fields of Poitiers or Agincourt. I've always been drawn to the history surrounding Edward III and Henry V and it was the kit I wanted to develop. I also belong to a living history club in the Eastern US that focuses on scenarios in the 1380s to early 15th century.
Great job on the narrative man- you're a gifted lecturer!
Just out of curiousity... Do we have evidence of pig faced bascinets beeing used without aventails? (Other than great bascinets)
The overwhelming majority of bascinets that appear in visual sources without aventails are almost always open-faced bascinets that don't appear to have ever had a visor. The aventail seems to have been a pretty universal component of a visored bascinet.
@@KnyghtErrant Ah, ok thank you. Recently I saw a modern interpretation of a houndskull which actually looked quite good to me. Good shape of the helmet, nice visor etc. But it was lacking the attachment for the aventail and I actually got curious if the manufacturer simply knew more than I do or if they just missed it.
@@Timbo_Boy There are some examples of visual sources that show aventails that appear to be attached internally to the helmet's skull so there are no verveilles sticking out of the helmet, but a totally omitted aventail would be very atypical for a fully visored bascinet.
@@KnyghtErrant Ok, thank you a lot! :)
9:14 wow the helmet you have facing the camera looked like an overlaid image, I honestly thought it was just something you pasted on top of the video - it looked blurry and the angle was weird. Then you touched it... xD freaky, took me by surprise.
why didnt they make the eye hole wider? Or made a lot of holes around it? That way you would still have vision but also field of view
There are some examples where they make holes around the eye slot but they're not very common. They significantly weaken the structure of the metal around the eye slot (which is the same reason you often only have breathing holes on one side of many helmets). Historical eye slots tend to be very narrow because ever millimeter wider you make it is more of a chance for a weapon to enter, and in many cases that's one of the few spots where it's game over immediately should a weapon defeat it, especially on horseback. In close-in fighting we often see the visor discarded or worn up, but on horseback it's often worn down because the face is the primary target for an opposing lance and the head of a war lance is narrow enough to get in that slot.
Knyght Errant thats interesting. Never would have thought but it makes a lot of sense that they used it more on horses. I never understood why a few mm-s would count for anything when they already defend their faces in a duel. This clears it up. Does this mean crusader era knights used horses more often than not? Or is it just folklore that most of the time they were wearing their greathelm?
Also thanks for answering I didnt think you yourself would answer. Great content btw :)
I always wondered what the inside of the helmet looks like. I'm assuming that it's not just empty like a bowl otherwise it would wobble on your head. Is there some kind of harness system for your head set up? I'm imagining something like the harnesses in the modern Kevlar helmet.
There is a textile suspension system, not unlike modern ballistic helmets. Here's a video about it - th-cam.com/video/itO64ZBX1jU/w-d-xo.html
Knyght Errant perfect! Thanks
Hi Knyght Errant, first off ,great video, it realy was helpful and full of new knowledge that I am interested in. I was able to get a wonderfull houndskull bascinet from a czech smith and need a aventail for it. I´ve searched for a while now ,but haven´t found a fitting one yet. Have you got any advice? Where have you got yours? I hope you can help me. Greetings Hans
Simply bascinating!
How do you exactly spell out the nasal protection of the early Bascinets?
Portache? Portage? Something else? Is it a French term?
Would be totally cool whenever you name something unconventional that you add it in the description or blend it in the video.
Bretache
Will there be any video about armets? It would be very nice if You could cover this type of helmet :)
Do the narrow visor slits have a pin-hole camera effect that would help the vision of a short-sighted person in an age before lenses?
I always assumed that people would fight with the visor up for vision, but I guess it's not actually that bad.
Visor up or visor completely off are perfectly viable options reflected in the artwork.
Knyght Errant I'd still rather have the visor down, thank you very much. I rather like my face. :)
That may be so, but you may actually have more of a chance of keeping it intact if you can see and breathe better, thus giving you more situational awareness to a potential threat, at least that's what a lot of historical images suggest :)
Knyght Errant I’ll keep on my camel or behind a shield if I’m not wearing a faceplate
ware cen i buy thes
always look forward to new uploads to your armor video series. very well presented, sir.
+Lee Hissong indeed
very well indeed sir
would you also like a cup o' tea?
Why would this helmet disappear in later period? The conical shape seems quite reasonable for deflecting incoming bolts.
Other equally as effective styles just became more popular due to fashion preferences among plate armored warriors changing
Humans have always cared about fashion and being “in style” it seems
Thanks for all the info. I use one of these for fight buhurt. Cool to know more about what I’m wearing. ❤️
love these videos, very informative. More!
21:50 what I've heard is that left handed soldiers were paid double, because they came in handy when taking towers that had staircases curving to the right
This is a great channel
Why was the great helm worn over bascinet phased out in favour of a visor? Surely there is more protection on the sides/back/top with the extra helm. It would be much cheaper to produce visors rather than entire separate helmets though, I suppose.
+Glywysing 3rd quarter 14th century great helms don't glance as well as a later bascinet either. The great helm seems to have been mainly worn for the cavalry charge and discarded or slung over the back when a lot of the fighting got close. During the charge the most likely impact is going to be from the front, so the going theory is that even during the time of the Great Helms popularity, by the time the fighting got to the point where the sides, back and top of the head were more of a concern, you were probably only wearing a bascinet anyway. Not having to deal with a second helm is nice when you have a helmet that can fill both roles in one.
Knyght Errant Yeah that makes sense. It must've been incredibly awkward to fight with a great helm slung over your back, and I suppose only the most wealthy of nobles would be immediately willing to just discard the helm on the battlefield. Then again, the visor would have been pretty awkward, too - though perhaps a lot cheaper to replace.
Great video as always Ian. BTW is this bascinet of yours of a thicker, heavier construction compared to the open faced one you wore under the Great Helm last time? I would guess so. Thanks
+John Huang Probably a little bit, but mainly it's significantly bigger. The open-faced bascinet I had in the last video has been returned to its owner so I can't do a direct comparison (and I didn't think to do one when I had it in my possession).
Knyght Errant
Hmm, I thought given that it has to serve as a standalone defense without the great helm on top of it would mean that it would have and could afford to be of significantly thicker construction. Anyway thanks
I dont imagine that great helm would work well for a combat on foot compared to this bascinet?
So, this is a problem with modern reproductions, not comparable to originals. If my standalone bascinet had been raised from one piece of steel, it would definitely be a lot thicker at the top than at the sides, so comparing things like thickness in modern reproductions reveals one of the shortcomings of how they are made. The open-faced bascinet I had showed was also mild steel, my houndskull is 0.3% carbon and hardened, so it's not directly comparable. You can certainly get modern reproductions done as a single piece raised helmet, but that's more than I can afford :)
I definitely prefer a visored bascinet to a great helm + smaller bascinet for use on foot, but that's my personal preference.
Knyght Errant
Thanks, yeah the modern reproduction certainly lacked a lot of the features we find in the original pieces.
BTW how much did your houndskull weight, with aventail and everything? I'd guess something in the vicinity of 10 lbs? I didnt imagine that you get to weight the other bascinet and great helm?
I'm not sure what the new one weighs. But I do have planned a video where I will weigh every individual piece of armor on camera so everyone can see.
Why do we never get to see you with the single barred occular visor on?
I prefer the aesthetics of the other one, but I do wear them both at shows.
Great video! Interesting information.
Last night I watched Wikimedia commons cathegory medieval helmets I was fascinated to find more than a thousand different helmets preserved both in shape and details
what about the phrygain cap style nasal helm would that have influened it at all?
Beautiful helm and great video!
I have a question, which somewhat bothers me. Couldn't a glancing blade (or some spiky thing) of an attacker get stuck between the "nose" pease and the highlightet area of the occulus and thus project all it's force onto this exact spot? Don't think that it is this kind of big deal, since it seems to have been very common, but still looks like a small weakness.
I would think that would be more likely on a totally static object. The person wearing it is going to be in relatively constant motion making that possibility relatively low. A moving helmet is always going to encourage the weapon to glance off the helmet more than a still helmet. At the end of the day, every armor has weaknesses, the trick is to try and minimize letting people exploit them.
Well, that's usefull to know. Thank you!
Thank you for testing the peripheral vision. That’s exactly what I was searching for!
You mentioned side vision, but what about vertical range of vision? Does it allow to see spear coming from below or sword coming from above?
How do you spell the thing that you were talking about that is connected to the aventail under the chin? The nasal thing
bretache
21:57 Rigth hand only yes, because left handed people were considered possessed.
I love your videos, very informative and entertaining. The Kit and gear seen in them is quite lovely, which brings me to an amusing discovery. I have come across snapshots of two helmets i seen in your content, the Bascinet and the other helmet with a visor, I forget its name. and put em up on ebay, I saw them and kinda rasied an eyebrow, as well they are of course being sold out of India. Just figured I would mention this in case you were unawares.
Hi thanks. Yes, many eBay sellers from India routinely steal photographs from competent armorers and fraudulently use them to sell knock-offs. Unfortunately, there's not much we can do about it other than make sure people are aware that they are indeed frauds.
@@KnyghtErrant It is unfortunate this happens, I almost fell prey to this concerning a wolf pelt. When I saw the helmet i immediately was skeptical, a helmet like that for 200 bucks?. I am just glad to be able to bring awareness to folk about this.
Did they use any kind of chin strap? I'm a long time SCA fighter who fights in a klapvisor bascinet and from experience a blow to the helm without a chin strap will rotate or shift the helm reducing the function. You just can't say "wait a minute" while you readjust your helm.
There is virtually no evidence for their use in bascinets in the context of warfare. If there was one, it would have to be sewn to the liner since there are no holes positioned for a chin strap on surviving bascinets. A very well fitted aventail would keep the helm in place pretty well. There is evidence in artwork for a strap on the backplate going under the bascinet to potentially keep the helmet from falling off as you lean or fall forward though. A thing to consider is a powerful strike to the helmet from a lance or pole weapon can injure you more if the helmet is tightly buckled around the chin. A bit of an anecdote; some members of the Russian Battle of the Nations team have warned people to not wear chin straps on their bascinets because of the force of a blow being driven straight into the jaw instead of simply letting the helmet get rocked.
Sounds reasonable. With my just my aventail my helm is pretty secure. I know a with a chin strap a strong (over powered) thrust to the face can leave my jaw a bit sore. Thanks!
Wonderful, informative video!
BTW - about how much does Piotr charge for such a helmet?
How does the Bascinet stay on your head? Unlike the Armet, it seems easy to just slide on and off. I'm sure a leather strap could be used, depending on the flexibility of the Aventail, but were any devices used to secure the helm?
The aventail alone does a pretty decent job of keeping the helmet on your head. Modernly a lot of people fight in bascinets without any sort of retention and it's only during wrestling that I ever see the helmets come off. This is actually shown in some historical fighting treatises. In the late 14th century we do see some artwork that shows a strap emerging from underneath the back of the aventail, securing the helmet down to whatever back defense the person is wearing. This will prevent the above described problem, and is used with success in some modern contexts as well.
What period would be suitable for a Wenzel style bascinet? My research showed 1390-1400, but I have seen other manuscripts dating from earlier in the 14th century with what looks like the same type of bascinet
do you plan to make a video about the armet. I think they're cool but I don't know as much about them as I would like to
Just purchased a replica thanks for the video and all the explanation 😉
I notice that this helm seems to be worn without any additional arming cap, just the liner in the helm itself. Is this just for expedience for this video or does the liner eliminate the need for a padded cap? Is there a date or regional difference for when a padded cap would be used vs a padded liner?
+DoktorWeasel Every surviving bascinet that I'm aware of has holes drilled in it for a liner along the edges. I've never found the need for an additional padded cap when wearing a helmet with a sufficiently padded integral liner. You see the ties of textile coifs sticking out of helmets now and then in some manuscript illuminations but usually much earlier and often with much less substantial helmets, but with bascinets it's very hard to tell if something was worn under them because of the fact that you'd never see it from the outside.
Makes sense. Now that I think of it, I might just be remembering padded caps for mail coifs.
Video... pretty long...
Definitely not.
Excellent video! I hope for more :)
Did Piotr put the aventail on too or did you have someone else do that?
Piotr had a friend of his do the aventail, so when I received the helmet everything was already in place. The only thing I did when I got the helmet was modify the liner to make it adjustable.
Alright good to know I haven't been able to find a Hounskull with an aventail that I like. Btw are you going to make any videos about your sword? I've seen it quite a bit in some of the pictures you've displayed but I don't think you've ever talked about it.
nvm about the sword just realized you talked about it on the harness video still would be cool to see all of the swords and weapons you own though if that isn't the only one.
Hi Ian, do you know if there are known types of historically correct, side pivoted bascinets, for the late 14th century, that are not like the "houndskull"? Like, with the visor less pointy.
I love your work by the way, I always find a lot of interesting things!
Ps. Another question: Do you know if klappvisors are still in large use, like in the middle of the century, in its late part??
Late 14th century Italian sources (and some other regions) show side-pivoting visors like this (s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/0a/56/83/0a5683846c88e1dc865ab4fab07ebc15.jpg). Some people modernly call them 'snow-plow' style visors.
Klappvisors didn't really show up until around 1360 (with a few possible depictions before that) and they remained in use in some form until close to 1440 depending on the region you're looking at. Remember though that klappvisor refers only to the method of attachment (i.e, a center pivot) not the style of visor. There are houndskull klappvisors for example.
Thank you very much!
Ian's helm is so gorgeous it made me like bascinets!
I wish you had a second Bascinet to sit behind you like all of the other helmet videos.
Are you aware of, or familiar with, anyone who does performance tests on helmets? I am curious to know just how much stronger asymmetrical visor with no breaths is versus the side with breaths in it, against various impacts.
There's a channel called "Armor Smith" you can check out if you haven't found them already. Mostly it's him either making armor or talking about it, but there are a few destruction tests too.
The channel name is actually longer than just Armor Smith but it's how I find them when TH-cam randomly decides to remove my subscriptions now and again.
This may seem like an odd question, but how much did your armour cost? I'm interested in getting involved with reenactment.
I prefer not to discuss the specific price of my armor because it has little relevance to what others will spend on armor. There are so many different grades of armor and within each grade, so many different variables that have a wild effect on the final cost of armor that it's very difficult to give an answer. How accurate you want the shaping to be, how polished it will be, the materials, whether or not it's heat treated, the decoration, the period of armor you're interested in, etc... If you're talking about strict living history grade armor (i.e., armor that is shaped historically, no concessions for modern sport combat) then you can spend anywhere from a couple thousand dollars to tens of thousands of dollars depending on specifics.
Thank you!
can you get a rondell dagger or similar through the barred sight?
+ferreus I own this (arms-n-armor.com/dagg110.html) and it can get about 1.5 inches into the barred ocular, not enough to reach my actual eyes or face.
I love your channel.
This video helped me apprecviate the Bascinet a lot more. I'm not a huge fan of the houndskull visor aesthetic but some of the other options are really cool. Great video! Although it looks like I'm a little late on commenting.
Great video.
Not sure how much of a real representation it would really provide, but it might be neat to get a view through the eye slits from inside with camera....perhaps with the right focal length might work.
I've experimented with that in the past and I've never been satisfied with the results. The real process that makes these visors work properly is our binocular vision. It helps make obstructions directly in front the eyes like the vertical bars, or breaths disappear from view to a certain extent which is very hard to convey in a photograph. Perhaps a stereo photograph at the right focal length and field of view could give something of the right impression. Further research indicated... :)
@@KnyghtErrant Yeah I suspected it would be an issue, thanks for the reply.
@@KnyghtErrant Found this pretty good model of one on sketchfab: sketchfab.com/3d-models/pigface-bascinet-65e027495ffe4bd98630385cdcc839b8
Can we link the appearance of the visored bascinet with the "disappearance " of the type XIV style sword?
+clubinglex I would think it was more tied to the overall development and prevalence of plate armor in general, not specifically any type of helmet innovation.
after the invention of bascinet visor invention, weapons became bashing sticks and trust bar. No flesh was exposed, so i think that's why flat points where out of fashion. thanks for all the vids they are awesome :)
Nice video about one of my favorite helmets. What is your theory why the visor was removable? Do you also think, it's for fast remove after the first strike to see better in close combat?
+zappelzockt Being able to remove the visor allows you to use different visors for different situations (joust vs mounted combat vs foot combat). It seems like a lot of people chose to fight without a visor on foot as well, so perhaps the visor was discarded after a cavalry charge. It's hard to say exactly. I'm willing to bet visors were frequently replaced throughout the working life of the helmet as well. Even the famous Wallace A69 has a plugged hole in the forehead where a klappvisor hinge used to be mounted.
But if you can afford participating in tourneys, you also can afford a second helmet, I believe - so different situations seem a bit off, in my eyes. Replacing damaged visors could be also a cause. Do you have experiences in fighting? Are the pins a weak spot? I think, a glanced off stroke could hitch in the gap between the skull and the pin and rip the rivet off?
I’ve been looking for a new bascinet and was wondering how much this cost.
A custom tailored on would set you back about 500-600 usd, but I bought a cheaper one for less than 150
Why aren't the pins attached to the helmet itself? It would make more sense to have a single pair of pins for multiple visors.
There are many occasions where one would where a bascinet without the visor at all, and you wouldn't want pins bouncing around and dangling in your face or snagging on things. The same set of pins should fit multiple visors though. Only some were actually chained to the visor.
Where do I buy this bassinet, like the one you have?
Without having to make my own?
Richard Fry wildarmory makes really good armor if you're still looking
How would these helmets hold up against pure blunt force weapons, such as war hammers? Would the helmet survive but the force be transferred to the wearer enough to cause unconsciousness?
+BloodofPatriots It would still be hard to get full purchase on the helmet because even a blunt object will want to slide off depending on the shape of it's striking surface. If you do catch it with full force, then the mass of the helmet and padding will provide some shock absorption, but depending on the power of the swing, the mass of the object being swung, and other factors it could still hit hard enough to cause unconsciousness or other injury. This is why the poleaxe is an effective weapon against an armored opponent.
Can I ask you wether the maker of your bascinet also supplies it with mail aventail with the padding?
Yes, he provided it all together. I did convert it to an adjustable liner, but that's it.
Name: Ian
Beard: Kickass
Content: Informative and entertaining
You sure you aren't the Ian McCollum of armour?
Whoa I learn a lot from this video.!